CFL Teen arrested for "resisting arrest"

[Keith A]

This was posted on a local Facebook group, and thought I'd share this to see if anyone could help. Here's the FB link, and I've copied the text of his message below.
https://www.facebook.com/theperpinanproject/photos/a.107968837316281/165179961595168/?type=3&theater

On this morning’s group ride, something unusual happened. My son and another teenage rider, Javier Lopez, were pulled over by a Seminole County (FL) Sheriff, and Javier Lopez was arrested for “resisting arrest”. The teens had been off the front of the group in a breakaway for approx. the last 20 mins and were holding a 25 sec gap. When they approached the left hand turn that would put them onto Florida Ave, my son stopped and Javier slowed and proceeded to roll through. They then proceeded to kick back up to speed as they were trying to maintain their breakaway gap. This is when the Sheriff, who was on the other side of the turn, took off in pursuit to pull them over. The rest of the group came to a stop then we all proceeded to continue chasing them. Approximately 25 sec later we came up on the teens on the side of the road, Javier already in handcuffs and my son asking why his friend was being arrested. The sheriff said “why didn’t he stop? I told him to stop.” My son replied, “we did stop as soon as we realized that you were trying to pull us over.” The sheriff insisted that he had yelled at them at the stop sign and that Javier was, in essence, “fleeing the sight of the traffic violation.” Although the group of cyclist tried to explain the situation, the sheriff said, “Today’s not the day for a road side jury.”

They took Javier away, arrested him, and he is currently being detained in a jail cell. His bail is set at $8500 and he will probably spend the night in jail unless... his father, who is also a cyclist and was there on the ride, finds a bail bondsmen today.

I understand enforcing the law, however, I do not understand the actions these sheriff’s carried out today. Why ruin the life of a good kid, who is in essence a child, with a criminal record? This should have been, worse case scenario, a traffic violation. Ask yourselves how many times you have slow rolled through a stop sign in your vehicle or your bike. Should this be how you’re treated? Or worse, is this how you would want your child treated? As cyclists, we should always follow the laws of the road, but we should also stick together when situations like these arise.

If anyone out there can help, or knows someone who can, please reach out to me via DM and I will put you in contact with Javier’s father. Thank you!!

P.S. I have video and can provide the footage if it helps in any way.

[Blue Jays]

The cyclists were arrested in the midst of a race?
Was this a traditional roadrace or was it a criterium?
Officers should have seen all the racers and understood.

[Velocipede]

The cyclists were arrested in the midst of a race?
Was this a traditional roadrace or was it a criterium?
Officers should have seen all the racers and understood.

I understand this to have happened during an organized ride, not a race. I could be wrong though.

[Keith A]

I understand this to have happened during an organized ride, not a race. I could be wrong though.I believe this is correct.

[robt57]

Not having actually witnessed, not wanting to assume over reaction on Ranger Rick, which it sounds like is possible...

https://nwinton.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/respect-my-authority.jpeg

[wc1934]

A bogus arrest and $8500 bail for rolling thru a stop sign/resisting arrest?
Makes me so angry!!

[dddd]

Since this is the US, the kid will get to go before a judge over this matter at least.

Bummer if he really didn't hear the officer ordering him to stop.

A resisting arrest charge could follow any deliberate action that makes an officer do extra work in order to effect an arrest.

[mjb266]

Good lord, if I hear a siren, it’s because a cop is chasing a car or racing to a crime scene. I’d never assume it was me. If I were in a spirited group ride breakaway, and slightly hypoxia, I’d be even less likely to assume the cop was addressing me.

The cop is being an ass. I’ve heard of driving while black...but this seems like a case of riding while brown.

[dddd]

A bogus arrest and $8500 bail for rolling thru a stop sign/resisting arrest?
Makes me so angry!!

This probably had happened the week before, and the week before that.
All of which made the officer "so angry" when it happened to him again!

I don't know, maybe this officer has a weak voice, but I have witnessed road users and others conveniently pretending to not notice that an officer was trying to get them to stop. I vaguely remember doing this myself once, on a bike, in White Plains about 35 years ago. I more clearly remember the officer being in a rather Joe Friday or drill seargeant sort of mood when I finally stopped.
Another thing is that so often it is people with warrants (i.e. failure-to-appears) who do this kind of thing, and which causes officers to perhaps pursue them more vigorously.

[dddd]

Good lord, if I hear a siren, it’s because a cop is chasing a car or racing to a crime scene. I’d never assume it was me. If I were in a spirited group ride breakaway, and slightly hypoxia, I’d be even less likely to assume the cop was addressing me.

The cop is being an ass. I’ve heard of driving while black...but this seems like a case of riding while brown.

Whoa, you should get a job with the media, they love that sort of talk!

My bet is that next time, hypoxia or no, that kid will stop when told.

I can't believe any of us here are making excuses for what they did not see. This is just a third-hand recollection, no?

[FlashUNC]

Thrill of the day for Barney Fife there.

[dddd]

Thrill of the day for Barney Fife there.

I've seen that sort of thing too, once had a very excited ranger cop put a billy club in my motorcycle spokes and take my keys after I pulled over immediately, then took him several minutes to regain composure over my crossing a 30' stretch of dirt between fire roads.
Turned out though that he may have thought that I was the guy who had them out with the helicopter a day or two earlier.

I used to do the Coffee Republic training ride every Saturday for years, and we got pulled over a couple of times. But I had seen the sort of things done by riders which I knew would bring in complaints to the town, county and state patrols. And we never tried to sneak away, so no tickets, just had to endure the lecture!

Since this case involves bail, I am assuming there is much we don't know about. Could very well have had to do with there being visual contact between the young Mr. Lopez and the cop, which made his flight seem the more agregeous, and/or an attitude/acknowledgement problem when he finally stopped and was confronted. I'm thinking both. Short of those possibilities, I can't see the 8k bail having been set by the judge.

[rustychisel]

You weren't there either and now you assume facts and interpret.... it's a worry, I say...

..... And we never tried to sneak away, so no tickets, .....

so in the light of that I'd suggest you're being somewhat egregious in your commentary. Pot kettle black.

[mjb266]

Whoa, you should get a job with the media, they love that sort of talk!

We are not a police state, and dragging a KID in Lycra who was RIDING A BICYCLE ! Does nothing buy destroy goodwill. That kid isn’t going to help out law enforcement in the years to come. Neither will his friend. Instead they will avoid the cops and recount stories of that cop to their buddies.
That could have been a conversation with the kid about how folks with warrants act, with a release at the end of that conversation...but what the hell...it’s a guy on a bike in full Lycra kit...if he rolled the stop sign, ticket him and be done.

[Peter P.]

I can understand why the police would perceive 2 cyclists riding with what looks like intense effort, as trying to flee a police officer.

The kid will likely appear in juvenile court and the judge will use discretion in casting a verdict/sentence. That's what judges do.

The takeaway should be these group rides should not be races with stop signs and the temptation to "roll through".

[verticaldoug]

The sheriff he yelled at them at the stop sign. We all know when riding hard we sometimes can't even hear the guy right behind us.

If you were in NY State, I have just the guy to call. Sorry I can't help you in Florida.

[Ralph]

I live in the general area, and don't know all the details. I do know....there are very large group rides on weekends, by a particular group, which sorta takes on the aspects of a race....with cyclists riding 3 or 4 abreast sometimes on 2 lane and 4 lane roads. Sometimes blocking traffic, the rear of the group sometimes blowing thru stop lights and signs (though I understand that is not group policy....ride leaders trying to limit this) and just annoying the hell out of motorists. This I have witnessed from this group. Motorists then put pressure on the county Sherriff's Dept to "do something about this behavior", and deputies know the route this group takes and which mornings. So deputies are looking for about any infraction.....with lots of support from the driving public. Lots of blame to go around here, and in this case, maybe the kids getting the worse end of this.

And...although I have observed this kind of behavior from this group, been caught behind them a few times on Sat AM's, don't know the details of this particular incident. And this group's (Club's) policy is to be responsible cyclists. I do believe cyclists bring this situation about from large group riding behavior.....we hear about it all over the country. And I'm not excusing the behavior of over zealous police officers.

[oldpotatoe]

I live in the general area, and don't know all the details. I do know....there are very large group rides on weekends, by a particular group, which sorta takes on the aspects of a race....with cyclists riding 3 or 4 abreast sometimes on 2 lane and 4 lane roads. Sometimes blocking traffic, the rear of the group sometimes blowing thru stop lights and signs (though I understand that is not group policy....ride leaders trying to limit this) and just annoying the hell out of motorists. This I have witnessed from this group. Motorists then put pressure on the county Sherriff's Dept to "do something about this behavior", and deputies know the route this group takes and which mornings. So deputies are looking for about any infraction.....with lots of support from the driving public. Lots of blame to go around here, and in this case, maybe the kids getting the worse end of this.

And...although I have observed this kind of behavior from this group, been caught behind them a few times on Sat AM's, don't know the details of this particular incident. And this group's (Club's) policy is to be responsible cyclists. I do believe cyclists bring this situation about from large group riding behavior.....we hear about it all over the country. And I'm not excusing the behavior of over zealous police officers.

Well said and I am NOT excusing the actions of the LEO, even tho the article paints a very one sided picture..I'll bet there ARE 2 sides to this story. BUT the above happens every year in the county north of Boulder county(Larimer)....

ONE thing for sure, IMHO, don't be a dick when riding, even if you are correct and right and legal..AND if stopped, even if you ARE right/correct/proper and legal..MY response to any LEO is "yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir". They hold all the cards, like it or don't, bite your tongue. Getting into a pissing contest with a LEO, and you lose 100% of the time. EVEN IF you are right..chances are this will be cleared up in court but it's going to be expensive and time consuming...

[merlinmurph]

$8500 bail?

I would love to hear the justification for such a high bail for an innocuous event.

[benb]

We usually bleat and plead to be given all the rights of other vehicles.

If you were exhibiting this behavior in cars/motorcycles you'd get hit with a street racing charge and be in jail too.

It doesn't sound like officer charged them this way but he could have seen it this way. I think it's legit with the way a lot of group rides behave.

Running a stop sign/light to stay ahead of others sure sounds like street racing behavior, and it's never safe.

Hopefully the judge clears the kids record, dismisses the charges, etc.. but some fools learn not to "race" in their group ride.

Saying you can't tell you're getting pulled over cause of hypoxia from riding too hard sounds like a great way to get killed by a car when you're running the stop sign. You can't ride so hard you can't maintain situational awareness out there if you want to stay safe.

[unterhausen]

nobody street races at 25mph, so I don't see how the comparison is apt.

I ignore anyone shouting at me because the likelihood it's something I don't want to hear is probability 1, almost sure. If cops could do something about the number of times I have been assaulted on a bike riding safely and legally, that would be great.

[benb]

Just cause you're doing 25mph doesn't mean your moving violation isn't going to result in your death.

Racing is for races!

The whole thing with running intersections during group rides is so silly. There are no numbers pinned on, no prize, no one is timing. The risk:reward is not there to run the intersection.

[glepore]

I don't doubt that the kid probably didn't deserve arrest. A stern lecture, sure.

But the bigger point here is what the ... is a "breakaway" on a "group ride"?

We are our own worst enemies sometimes. A group ride is just that, there is NO place for racing or race tactics, particularly where traffic controls are involved.

I stopped doing the group ride I frequented in Pa when stop signs and intersections became places to take chances because someone wanted to maintain a gap, or where a bunch would sprint away despite others not being able to cross traffic. Mindless, dangerous and just plain rude to the traffic and the other cyclists left.

[vqdriver]

yeah, i never understood the pseudo racing that comes with group rides. it's fun for sure, but no one else in the world cares about your club ride. certainly not the cars and motos trying to navigate an intersection. rolling thru stops, not yielding to pedestrians, weaving thru traffic en masse, etc... all that goes out the window when we demand the rights of vehicles. the idea of being hypoxic and not assuming the siren applies to them does not resonate with me. if i were driving hypoxic, that's reason enough to pull me over. now i get that the point is that as cyclists we understand and can relate to the cyclists' perspective, but we also have to acknowledge that there's more than the cyclists' perspective at play.

having said that. yeah, the cop overreacted. a traffic citation, sure. roadside admonishment, okay. arrest???? c'mon.

[jtbadge]

Racing or not, the fact is that this is a child and there is no reason he should have been arrested and spent a night in jail.

Hands down, racist and power hungry cops at it again.

[gdw]

Racing or not, the fact is that this is a child and there is no reason he should have been arrested and spent a night in jail.

Hands down, racist and power hungry cops at it again.

And you know this because? It's always interesting to read threads like this one. We have limited information about what actually occurred yet some folks jump to conclusions with utterly no facts to back up their opinions.

[bthornt]

As has been mentioned by others, there are 2 sides to every story. All comments that I have seen, unless I've missed something, come from a posting on the facebook page by someone who was involved on one side of the incident.

Not sure, based on what has been written, how some folks can conclude that the arresting officer was racist or power hungry.

[Black Dog]

We are not a police state, and dragging a KID in Lycra who was RIDING A BICYCLE ! Does nothing buy destroy goodwill. That kid isn’t going to help out law enforcement in the years to come. Neither will his friend. Instead they will avoid the cops and recount stories of that cop to their buddies.
That could have been a conversation with the kid about how folks with warrants act, with a release at the end of that conversation...but what the hell...it’s a guy on a bike in full Lycra kit...if he rolled the stop sign, ticket him and be done.

This. So this.

[CAAD]

These cops have been hanging out at this stop sign for months on end. It's literally a back road with ZERO car traffic at 9:30am. I know these kids and this is unacceptable. Not saying rolling through this stop sign is acceptable but come no one is out running a cop on a bicycle. I missed this ride this weekend but it's my go to Saturday ride.

[ftf]

Not sure, based on what has been written, how some folks can conclude that the arresting officer was racist or power hungry.

Hummmmmm, I suppose we don't know if this one cop is racist, or not, but is the system racist? yes, is it systematically racist, yes.

At the end of the day it doesn't even matter if this ONE cop is Racist or not, it matters if the system is, and if you haven't been paying attention it is, blatantly unabashedly so.

[bthornt]

Hummmmmm, I suppose we don't know if this one cop is racist, or not, but is the system racist? yes, is it systematically racist, yes.

At the end of the day it doesn't even matter if this ONE cop is Racist or not, it matters if the system is, and if you haven't been paying attention it is, blatantly unabashedly so.

I'm sure you won't mind if I disagree with your statement.

[ftf]

I'm sure you won't mind if I disagree with your statement.

You mean the fact that the system is systematically racist.

Please disagree, with data.

[FlashUNC]

Not sure, based on what has been written, how some folks can conclude that the arresting officer was racist or power hungry.

Throwing a child in jail overnight for running a stop sign is a pretty clear sign someone's got power issues.

[bthornt]

Throwing a child in jail overnight for running a stop sign is a pretty clear sign someone's got power issues.

Were you there? I would be interested to know how you can make this claim if you weren't.

[tuscanyswe]

Throwing a child in jail overnight for running a stop sign is a pretty clear sign someone's got power issues.

I would have to agree, i cant imagine that even happening here tbh (unless there is more to the story). I suspect you would get fired here if you said you held a kid in jail over something like running a stop sign. Punishment should fit the crime? does not seem to be applicable in this scenario.

[bthornt]

I would have to agree, i cant imagine that even happening here tbh (unless there is more to the story). I suspect you would get fired here if you said you held a kid in jail over something like running a stop sign. Punishment should fit the crime? does not seem to be applicable in this scenario.

Like you said, unless there is more to the story. I don't know what happened, you don't know what happened, so how can we draw any conclusions like the those that have been drawn here by some - that the officer was racist and power hungry?

[torquer]

Since this is the US, the kid will get to go before a judge over this matter at least.
If the kid was held overnight and bail set in the high four figures, he did appear before a judge.
I know nothing about the region in which this happened, but it sounds to me like at least one local judge was of a similar mind to the LEO.

[gdw]

I would have to agree, i cant imagine that even happening here tbh (unless there is more to the story). I suspect you would get fired here if you said you held a kid in jail over something like running a stop sign. Punishment should fit the crime? does not seem to be applicable in this scenario.


Florida might be different but in most states Judges, not police officers, set the bail.
They also have the power to release a juvenile into the custody of their parents or to release an adult without bond. Methinks that there could be more to the story than what was posted on Facebook.

[ftf]

I'm sure you won't mind if I disagree with your statement.

I'm on pins and needles here.

Please post some data supporting your position!

[jtbadge]

Ever been arrested at night or on a weekend? Good luck getting in front of a judge

My bail for DUI was set at 10 percent of what this kid got. White privilege at work, for sure. Meanwhile this CHILD of color is grossly mistreated.

[bthornt]

I'm on pins and needles here.

Please post some data supporting your position!

You stated that it doesn't matter if this one cop is racist or not, I disagree. What kind of data are you looking for?

[jtbadge]

Do you work for the Jacksonville PD, or something? Jesus.

[ftf]

You stated that it doesn't matter if this one cop is racist or not, I disagree. What kind of data are you looking for?

Oh so you agree the system is systematically racist?

[gdw]

Ever been arrested at night or on a weekend? Good luck getting in front of a judge

My bail for DUI was set at 10 percent of what this kid got. White privilege at work - pretty gross.

Yawn. The manner in which your state treated you doesn't carry any weight in this discussion when you have utterly no knowledge of what actually transpired in this incident.

[bthornt]

I don't think it's relevant for this issue. Was this cyclist arrested, taken to jail, booked, and given a high (for the offense) bail because the officer is racist (and power-hungry)?

According to google, officers in the Seminole County Sheriff's department wear cameras, so this should be relative easy to determine.

[ftf]

I don't think it's relevant for this issue. Was this cyclist arrested, taken to jail, booked, and given a high (for the offense) bail because the officer is racist (and power-hungry)?

According to google, officers in the Seminole County Sheriff's department wear cameras, so this should be relative easy to determine.

A simple yes no will do fine.

[Waterlogged]

I hope that there is video footage to prove the case for whichever party is telling the truth. Of course, we’ll probably never see it here.

[bthornt]

Do you work for the Jacksonville PD, or something? Jesus.

No, I am not employed by JSO (no police department in Jacksonville, just a sheriff's office). I suppose it just bothers me that some people are disparaging this sheriff without knowing anything about what happened. I'm sorry if that irritates you.

[jtbadge]

Isn't it weird how those body cameras "happen" to be turned off over and over again any time a cop is misbehaving, especially around people of color. At least this child is still alive.

[FlashUNC]

Were you there? I would be interested to know how you can make this claim if you weren't.

I wasn't there. But unless the rider had another sheriff deputy in a headlock and giving him the noogie of his life, there's no excuse to book a child to spend a night in jail for a nonviolent offense.

If the rider said some mean things to him -- again, the rider is a kid -- the onus is on the sheriff to be the literal adult in the situation. And that doesn't mean cuffing and booking a kid for a nonviolent offense.

Yes, if there's body camera, let's see it.

[benb]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/seminole-county/os-ne-seminole-county-teenage-cyclist-arrested-20200209-eved5jjlargjvkooziko27evqy-story.html

The officer says both of them ran the stop sign, not that the son of the facebook dad stopped.

The officer says he followed them and yelled at them 3-4 times and they ignored him.

The officer says the kid who was arrested resisted being handcuffed.

Second responding officer says the group ride crowd caught up and became unruly and hostile.

Not quite the same version as Facebook.

Erase bicycles and put them in cars or on motorcycles. Don't think about max speed on bicycles vs cars or motorcycles. Think running a stop sign and ignoring 3-4 requests to pull over. Speed at the stop sign is supposed to be zero no matter how fast or slow your vehicle is.

I am not saying a lot of people wouldn't get away with this from privilege depending on who they are or where they live but there are plenty of motorists who have gone through this sequence of steps and were arrested the same way he was, or beaten by the police on top of getting arrested. I really don't think bicycles are particularly important here.

If the officers were wearing cameras or had dash cams this will be clear as day.. going to be interesting if the camera footage mysteriously isn't present.

[dddd]

Ever been arrested at night or on a weekend? Good luck getting in front of a judge

My bail for DUI was set at 10 percent of what this kid got. White privilege at work, for sure. Meanwhile this CHILD of color is grossly mistreated.

You may be retired or already have a great job, but I would bet that you sir could easily find a job writing for the Sacramento Bee news outlet.
Stirring the pot is always easier than hiring writers that actually investigate things.

Is it possible that the young man firstly made visual contact with the yelling cop, continued on and then further resisted arrest when an attempt was made to humble him in sight of his comrades by briefly placing him in handcuffs?
Such likely scenario somehow reminds me of all of the people who challenge their tickets in traffic court here. While I simply humbly presented my argument before the judge and was then found "provisionally not guilty" (first one in six months according to the clerk), all of the others failed to acknowledge any hint of their own fault and thus were all found guilty during the hour and a half that I waited for my case to come up.

[ftf]

You may be retired or already have a great job, but I would bet that you sir could easily find a job writing for the Sacramento Bee news outlet.
Stirring the pot is always easier than hiring writers that actually investigate things.

Is it possible that the young man firstly made visual contact with the yelling cop, continued on and then further resisted arrest when an attempt was made to humble him in sight of his comrades by briefly placing him in handcuffs?
Such likely scenario somehow reminds me of all of the people who challenge their tickets in traffic court here. While I simply humbly presented my argument before the judge and was then found "provisionally not guilty" (first one in six months according to the clerk), all of the others failed to acknowledge any hint of their own fault and thus were all found guilty during the hour and a half that I waited for my case to come up.

Isn't it possible that aliens have made contact with the human race?

Lotta what if coming off this one.


Still waiting for old bthornt

[bthornt]

Isn't it possible that aliens have made contact with the human race?

Lotta what if coming off this one.


Still waiting for old bthornt

Why are you calling me old?

[torquer]

"The officer says the kid who was arrested resisted being handcuffed."
I've always wondered how this works; the justification for the "resisting arrest" charge was he didn't cooperate with the arrest, which was already underway?

As far as body and/or dash cams, seems that on Rikers Island it's SOP to repeat "stop resisting" while wailing on the detainee.

[ftf]

Why are you calling me old?

It's a turn of phrase, but you know that. Keep deflecting, no one will notice.

[dddd]

One thing that some comments here reminds me of are comments posted to YouTube videos where a driver acting strangely while speeding or committing some other moving violation then refuses to exit their vehicle on command of the deputy!

So you'll then see hundreds of instant posts to the video as to how the cop is a racist, but somehow none of them consider that the cop is being put into an extended stressful situation not knowing if the person resisting commands is perhaps concealing evidence of who-knows-what or concealing a weapon while no doubt plotting some sort of exit strategy!

But hey, this is YouTube, right?

[bthornt]

You said it didn't matter if the arresting officer was racist or not, I disagree, I think that is what matters, and that at this point no one knows enough to say either way.

[prototoast]

The officer says the kid who was arrested resisted being handcuffed.

At the point where he is "resisting being handcuffed" the officer had already decided to handcuff him, and it's not at all clear why that was necessary.

The article says:
López and the other cyclist stopped riding but only López was arrested, the report said, without elaborating on the reason.

Two riders rolled the stop sign, two riders kept going until the cop pulled in front of them, one ended up in handcuffs.


Second responding officer says the group ride crowd caught up and became unruly and hostile.


If the group was hostile, that should have no bearing on what consequences Mr. Lopez faces.


And perhaps the greatest injustice here is $8,500 bail. There is no indication that Mr. Lopez is a danger to his community or a risk not to appear before the court (though I'm sure they argued that his "resisting arrest" made him a flight risk). No one argues Mr. Lopez was acting appropriately, but escalating a traffic citation to an arrest and jailing is unjust in my opinion.

[ftf]

You said it didn't matter if the arresting officer was racist or not, I disagree, I think that is what matters, and that at this point no one knows enough to say either way.

That's not the question. Do you think the system is systematically racist or not?

[BobO]

May I suggest that a bit of patience is in order;

Bike Law wants to thank the thousands of cyclists, clubs, coaches, and organizations who have spread the news about the arrest of Javier Lopez. I recognize how understandably concerned our community is and am always amazed by our diversity, unity, and resilience.

We also want to thank the many of you who tagged and reached out to us to help. Your faith in us to protect the rights of cyclists is much appreciated.

We were contacted by Javier and his family yesterday shortly after it occurred, and I spent the morning today with them. We will be helping them through this ordeal.

We are conducting an independent investigation and have been in contact with the appropriate officials.

Javier is a remarkable young man and it’s Bike Law’s honor to help him out. While we are not in a position to disclose any further information today, and while it’s understandable why our community is outraged, I am happy to report that we are working on a path forward to resolve this matter as swiftly as possible. We will share more information as soon as we are able.

Until then, please rest assured that Javier is safe and comfortable at home with his family. We ask that their privacy be respected and thank you all for coming together during their time of need.

https://www.bikelaw.com/2020/02/arrested-teen-cyclist/?fbclid=IwAR3aJ4NCDNnugDrM7v1bbGiL7VPWG4TBDsQZt7UG EjlKq6seW5eNDK5yYIA

[bthornt]

As I said, that's not the relevant part of this incident for me. In this incident, the thing that matters to me is if the arresting officer was a racist (and power hungry), since that is what he (or she) was accused of by some folks in this thread. I don't think I can state my position any more plainly.

[ftf]

As I said, that's not the relevant part of this incident for me. In this incident, the thing that matters to me is if the arresting officer was a racist (and power hungry), since that is what he (or she) was accused of by some folks in this thread. I don't think I can state my position any more plainly.

How is the fact the system is systematically racist not a factor?

As one small example:

Did the officer set the bail?



So is the system systematically racist or not?

[dddd]

Isn't it possible that aliens have made contact with the human race?

Lotta what if coming off this one.


Still waiting for old bthornt


I also feel like I'm seeing a bit of "what if" here myself.

It's a distraction from meaningful discussion, no?

[ftf]

I also feel like I'm seeing a bit of "what if" here myself.

It's a distraction from meaningful discussion, no?

I agree, I never said anything about what if.

What do you think, is the system systematically racist or not?

[William]

I'm pretty sure none of you commenting were there so the baiting, racisit calls, and speculation on what either side did or didn't do is moot at this point. Keep it civil, and wait to see where the evidence takes this situation.

As I said, keep it civil.





W.

[dddd]

May I suggest that a bit of patience is in order;



https://www.bikelaw.com/2020/02/arrested-teen-cyclist/?fbclid=IwAR3aJ4NCDNnugDrM7v1bbGiL7VPWG4TBDsQZt7UG EjlKq6seW5eNDK5yYIA

So glad to hear that he's been released. I would hate to be "dragged" into the jail unit wearing Spandex and left there.

[bthornt]

How is the fact the system is systematically racist not a factor?

As one small example:

Did the officer set the bail?



So is the system systematically racist or not?

This may be the question of interest for you, but not me. The claim was made that the arresting officer is a racist, I said there isn't any evidence to say yes or no, that's it for me. You think it's something more, that's fine. I suppose we could keep going back and forth over this issue, but I've said my piece many times over and that's it for me.

[Keith A]

I agree, I never said anything about what if.

What do you think, is the system systematically racist or not?You've asked this question several times, and you received a response. If you want to purse this with bthornt, then do this privately.

[ftf]

This may be the question of interest for you, but not me. The claim was made that the arresting officer is a racist, I said there isn't any evidence to say yes or no, that's it for me. You think it's something more, that's fine. I suppose we could keep going back and forth over this issue, but I've said my piece many times over and that's it for me.

I agree, and even further more, it doesn't even matter!

Which ironically you disagree with.

Weird.

[dddd]

I agree, I never said anything about what if.

What do you think, is the system systematically racist or not?

Assuming you mean the complete "system" here in the US, I can present you with the fact that as a self-declared (I don't box-check such declarations any more on hiring forms) "white, or caucasian", that I was placed on a lower rung in the hiring lineup, as related to me by my soon-to-be (Dominican-born) boss.
This due to US Government "minority status" hiring preferences (US Gov was a big customer of this company).

Yeah, I was hired anyway, so it didn't matter, but does this answer your question?

[ftf]

Assuming you mean the complete "system" here in the US, I can present you with the fact that as a self-declared (I don't box-check such declarations any more on hiring forms) "white, or caucasian", that I was placed on a lower rung in the hiring lineup, as related to me by my soon-to-be Dominican-born boss.

Yeah, I was hired anyway, so it didn't matter, but does this answer your question?

Not really, but I learned a lot about.....

[Robot870]

Glad he got out.....Here in NYC you can have a rap sheet a mile long then beat up a old lady and they will let you out same day.....No bail!

[dddd]

Glad he got out.....Here in NYC you can have a rap sheet a mile long then beat up a old lady and they will let you out same day.....No bail!

Justice is far, far from uniform for different regions, so many over-crowded jailing facilities. I'm glad that I live near a major courthouse where the legal profession's entire working system really helps our local tax base, and also glad that the large jailing facility is at least a few miles up the road!

Some people arriving in court will have little representation beyond perhaps a court-appointed lawyer who is over-worked.
I really hope that the defendant in this case is thankful for the huge advantage that is being bestowed on him by the cycling community. I hope that this engenders some desire in him to return the favor somehow, perhaps by being a particularly good example of a road-using cyclist going forward.

[Robot870]

Justice is far, far from uniform for different regions, so many over-crowded jailing facilities. I'm glad that I live near a major courthouse where the legal profession's entire working system really helps our local tax base, and also glad that the large jailing facility is at least a few miles up the road!

Some people arriving in court will have little representation beyond perhaps a court-appointed lawyer who is over-worked.
I really hope that the defendant in this case is thankful for the huge advantage that is being bestowed on him by the cycling community. I hope that this engenders some desire in him to return the favor somehow, perhaps by being a particularly good example of a road-using cyclist going forward.

I agree!

[cash05458]

saw a recent study why most americans load up on guns...cops bust balls over the most insignificant. meaningless stuff...like this...some kid slow rolling a stop sign? ...and ignoring the real stuff...they have no faith anymore in cops dealing with the real things and are tired being hassled over the damn brake light ****...its all connected...no easy answer...law and order right? Overload of cops being paid a fortune...to bust tail on the most basic everyday stuff like this...while real crime rampages in all sorts of areas via the areas it is going on for real...ie crappy and poor hoods...

[spoonrobot]

Is yelling an acceptable way to pull over a cyclist? That seems bizarre that the deputy wouldn't conduct the stop in the same manner as another vehicle using lights and siren.

The deputy said in the report that he yelled three times for López and the other cyclist to stop, but they looked at him and ignored his commands.

[wc1934]

Justice is far, far from uniform for different regions, so many over-crowded jailing facilities. I'm glad that I live near a major courthouse where the legal profession's entire working system really helps our local tax base, and also glad that the large jailing facility is at least a few miles up the road!

Some people arriving in court will have little representation beyond perhaps a court-appointed lawyer who is over-worked.
I really hope that the defendant in this case is thankful for the huge advantage that is being bestowed on him by the cycling community. I hope that this engenders some desire in him to return the favor somehow, perhaps by being a particularly good example of a road-using cyclist going forward.

Many kids detained by ICE have NO legal representation in court (but that is another sad topic).

[Ozz]

Is yelling an acceptable way to pull over a cyclist? That seems bizarre that the deputy wouldn't conduct the stop in the same manner as another vehicle using lights and siren.

+1 - I was wondering this too....why would the cop yell? Was he on a bike too?

A beep of the siren and the blue happy lights would have done the trick faster and with less effort.

Probaby would have ended with a stern lecture about stops signs rather than the arrest...

[William]

A lot of speculation and thread drift going on at this point Feel free to start another thread when more specific information on this incident comes out.






W.