Do I need disc brakes in Los Angeles?

[IJWS]

There has been a lot of chatter on the forum recently about how disc brakes might be a little too hyped up and that in some parts of the country, calipers are just fine-even preferable. I have to admit, calipers have seemed to work just fine for me for 20 years. I am interested to know what the paceliners think about this. We don’t have rain here, but we do have mountains. If I buy a new bike, it would most likely be disc, BUT there are so many “grail” bikes with calipers that are screaming deals. I’m wondering if I should ignore them, or if I should be capitalizing on the good deals.

[duff_duffy]

You don’t need discs anywhere. That’s my vote.

[oldpotatoe]

There has been a lot of chatter on the forum recently about how disc brakes might be a little too hyped up and that in some parts of the country, calipers are just fine-even preferable. I have to admit, calipers have seemed to work just fine for me for 20 years. I am interested to know what the paceliners think about this. We don’t have rain here, but we do have mountains. If I buy a new bike, it would most likely be disc, BUT there are so many “grail” bikes with calipers that are screaming deals. I’m wondering if I should ignore them, or if I should be capitalizing on the good deals.

If you have carbon wheels, discs probably an Ok idea..if metal rims..no need, IMHO. Road bike, not GROAD bike, 'gravel grinder'...:)

[Tony]

"capitalizing on the good deals" I like disc brakes, however I never felt I needed them over my rim brake road bikes.

[lhuerta]

you don’t need discs anywhere. That’s my vote.

+1000 .. but seriously, unless you are one of those who barrels down Glendora Mountain Road or Baldy or Mt Baldy Rd, dragging your brakes the whole way down and heating your rims, then NO, u don't need discs. YES, discs provide superior stopping power and modulation compared to rim calipers, but IMO, they are overkill.

[Lanternrouge]

Unless you feel like you are missing out on something by not having discs, I'd go with one of the screaming deals on bikes with caliper brakes. You just need to wait a bit longer for more people with great disc bikes to start unloading them. FWIW, I've done some riding in the Calabasis area and I'll be bringing a disc bike the next time I'm up there (assuming it's built up by then), but I'm a wimpy descender.

[Kirk007]

Do you need them? No. On dry roads in my experience discs don't stop any faster than rim brakes. They can feel different, particulalry hydraulic but in terms of bringing you to a stop I can't say any of my hydos get the job done faster than good rim brakes. Want a bike that can accomodate 35mm tires as well as smaller, then disc is more accomodating. And with wet roads, different story. Carbon clincher rims - well lots of stories out there about these issues (which don't exist with carbon tubulars). They also present a lot of niggly issues: changing wheelsets - be prepared to grab your allen wrench to loosen up the caliper mounting bolts and recenter the calibers. Annual maintenance - Sram says to bleed their road hydros yearly - do you want to do this and if not, check out what a shop will charge you, then compare to replacing rim brake pads and a cable on occasion. And their is the weight difference.

I'm not knocking discs - I have them on two bikes but because Seattle is wet and mossy 8-9 months a year but on dry days, the braking system is a nonfactor in which bike I grab.

My advice, go rent a good disc bike for a weekend, ride up and down some hills and draw your own conclusions.

[johnniecakes]

Eddy won grand tours on single pivot calipers that were no where as nice as current 105 calipers. So need, definitely not, but you may want them. ( personally they are not for me )

[R3awak3n]

Do you go up and down mountains a lot?
Do you have carbon hoops?
Do you go into some sketchy side roads that are not paved?
Do you ride in the rain? (LA so not a lot of it I am guessing)

if yes to any of these, I say go disc. Or if you want better braking, more modulation and no breaking hand fatigue.

[AngryScientist]

My advice, go rent a good disc bike for a weekend, ride up and down some hills and draw your own conclusions.

that is excellent advice.

[benb]

The weather is so nice there I’d vote no.

Even if you ignore performance I argue hydraulic discs are very low maintenance.

But that’s not really meaningful for a road race bike in a place with predominantly dry weather when that road bike has standard road calipers, which are the next best thing in terms of low maintenance.

A bad weather bike with big tires in a place with lots of bad weather that would have to have Canti or V-brakes is a different thing.

[tuscanyswe]

The weather is so nice there I’d vote no.

Even if you ignore performance I argue hydraulic discs are very low maintenance.

But that’s not really meaningful for a road race bike in a place with predominantly dry weather when that road bike has standard road calipers, which are the next best thing in terms of low maintenance.

A bad weather bike with big tires in a place with lots of bad weather that would have to have Canti or V-brakes is a different thing.

are you asaying that road calipers are more maintenance??

[XXtwindad]

I think there's an "X" factor here that's rarely discussed. In addition to the geography, terrain, and climate, there's the rider him/herself.

Are you a confident descender? If so, and given that you live in a mostly dry climate, I don't think there's a huge need for them.

I am not a confident descender. I live in the SF Bay Area, where it's very, very hilly and can be wet. So disc brake bikes are a no-brainer for me.

Having said that, there's another member on this Forum who is also notably not a confident descender, lives near me, and swears by rim brakes. So, there you go...

[mtechnica]

I made it down baldy and Glendora on a non-disc bike with two full panniers. The only time I’ve wished I had disc brakes was tuna canyon road but it was still manageable. I’d say no you don’t need them but they’d be nice to have all else being equal.

[vqdriver]

We dont need discs here, but scratch that itch now if you're going to scratch it later.
FWIW, I'd grab a caliper grail bike.

[joosttx]

I don’t think discs brakes are any better than correctly adjusted quality rim brakes on road bikes as long as the roads are dry and you have good rims. The brake tracking on my Campy Bora Ultra II’s combined with campy or eebrakes were awesome. Even on moist roads I notice not a drop in performance. Wet roads there is a drop.

The question I have is do disc brakes still have brake fade on long descents that can be typical in LA?

[Kirk007]

another observation: in 2018 I spent a month in the Alps and Dolomites on a couple tours and riding on my own. The riding in the Dolomites and Italian Alps was with Andy Hampsten and his crew. I asked him about discs vs rim brakes, after which I took a bike with Dura Ace 9100 rim brakes. You might call Andy a traditionalist, but he knows a thing or two about going up and down mountains. And he is a confident descender.

There were a few roads where the pavement was really crappy and descents steep and twisty where the modulation and the lesser hand force required with nice hydros would have been nice. And we had nice weather so really long wet descents were not an issue. That said I never once felt underbraked and I'm a big guy who likes to let it roll down those big descents.

Finally, whether it is a placebo effect from experiencing the stopping power of good disc systems on mountain bikes or a reality, I do think that disc brakes can create a greater sense of confidence in descending, which is, I think, can be a real factor in how one goes down hill and how much you enjoy it.

[XXtwindad]

another observation: in 2018 I spent a month in the Alps and Dolomites on a couple tours and riding on my own. The riding in the Dolomites and Italian Alps was with Andy Hampsten and his crew. I asked him about discs vs rim brakes, after which I took a bike with Dura Ace 9100 rim brakes. You might call Andy a traditionalist, but he knows a thing or two about going up and down mountains. And he is a confident descender.

There were a few roads where the pavement was really crappy and descents steep and twisty where the modulation and the lesser hand force required with nice hydros would have been nice. And we had nice weather so really long wet descents were not an issue. That said I never once felt underbraked and I'm a big guy who likes to let it roll down those big descents.

Finally, whether it is a placebo effect from experiencing the stopping power of good disc systems on mountain bikes or a reality, I do think that disc brakes can create a greater sense of confidence in descending, which is, I think, can be a real factor in how one goes down hill and how much you enjoy it.

Can you elaborate on his answer?

[IJWS]

I am loving the feedback. I am 200# and currently riding mavic Ksyriums, my third pair and kind of favorite wheels to date. It looks like I can put off discs for a couple of years. When I do go disc it’ll be the holy trinity of carbon wheels, disc brakes, and an electronic gruppo. If anything, I would be more antsy for electronic shifting than disc brakes.

[vqdriver]

The real variable with that is weather. Our winters aren't bad but the summers are brutal. That heat build up doesn't dissipate. But that's been the issue with carbon wheels too, and only on the really long descents. Only real answer is rim brakes on aluminum wheels

I don’t think discs brakes are any better than correctly adjusted quality rim brakes on road bikes as long as the roads are dry and you have good rims. The brake tracking on my Campy Bora Ultra II’s combined with campy or eebrakes were awesome. Even on moist roads I notice not a drop in performance. Wet roads there is a drop.

The question I have is do disc brakes still have brake fade on long descents that can be typical in LA?

[joosttx]

The real variable with that is weather. Our winters aren't bad but the summers are brutal. That heat build up doesn't dissipate. But that's been the issue with carbon wheels too, and only on the really long descents. Only real answer is rim brakes on aluminum wheels

There you have it. I never had an issue with my carbon wheel setup but it is a little cooler up here. I think the advantage of disc brakes on road bikes is wet weather. Not much wet weather in LA.

[joosttx]

Plus modulation is better on rim brakes. The campy disc brakes had good modulation but general speaking modulation is better on rim brakes.

[earlfoss]

If you're planning to descend Decker, Latigo, Tuna, etc. I think discs are a good thing to have.

[tylercheung]

I have both but rim brakes works well enough; am on alloy HED and H+son rims, though.

[vqdriver]

In my mind I've been thinking the best combo here would be rim brakes on a new textured or ceramic aluminum brake track. Brake later not longer and avoid the heat issues altogether. Stock up on pads and get used to brake noise tho.

[macaroon]

A must have if you do lots of hilly rides in the wet, otherwise they're unnecessary.

[tomato coupe]

Plus modulation is better on rim brakes. The campy disc brakes had good modulation but general speaking modulation is better on rim brakes.

I think most riders would say the opposite.

[Kirk007]

Can you elaborate on his answer?

To paraphrase: too many clients who end up riding/dragging the brakes on long descents, warping the discs and then he has to spend time alongside the road true the rotors when everyone could be riding instead.

[Kirk007]

In my mind I've been thinking the best combo here would be rim brakes on a new textured or ceramic aluminum brake track. Brake later not longer and avoid the heat issues altogether. Stock up on pads and get used to brake noise tho.

That's what I used in the Alps - Boyd ceramic coated altamont lite rims. They work really well and for me haven't been noisy at all. And the brake pad wear while noticeable hasn't been as bad as some would have you believe (and changing them is such a minor issue anyway.

[SoCalSteve]

If you're planning to descend Decker, Latigo, Tuna, etc. I think discs are a good thing to have.

Amalfi, all the hills in Palos Verdes, Angeles Crest, Glendora Mountain Road, etc, etc, etc...

Anyway, I’m a huge fan of carbon rims, I’m a big guy, I do a lot of climbing and descending, I’m a pretty confident descender...I would NEVER ride rim brake bikes again. Disc brakes for me has been a true game changer for so many reasons.

Power, feel, confidence, quieter, etc.

I agree if you are a small person who rides mostly flat in dry weather on alloy rims than discs are probably not required.

[happycampyer]

To paraphrase: too many clients who end up riding/dragging the brakes on long descents, warping the discs and then he has to spend time alongside the road true the rotors when everyone could be riding instead.I wasn’t dragging my brakes on the descent from Sassetta to Suvereto, but I wasn’t pedaling much, either. When is comes to descending, there are few in Andy’s class at any age. “Look, Ma, no brakes!”

https://youtu.be/MS4VHA-GCm4

[merlinmurph]

Ahhh, nothing like a good disc vs. caliper discussion....

I rode my Merlin for 18 years and not once did I ever say "Gee, I wish I had better brakes". Never. Then again, I rarely rode in mountainous terrain with 15%+ grades, nor do I go out when wet.

When I got a new bike in '16, I got discs, but that was because it is a dual-purpose bike - a gravel bike with two sets of wheels. To accommodate the 40mm tires, disc is a no-brainer, especially when riding on dirt, from dirt roads to singletrack. I've been on some nasty, steep (20%+) descents where I'm glad I had the discs.

For a pure road bike? Toss up.

FWIW, I would think that the fears of disc brakes would have ended by now. Discs have been around forever and there is nothing wrong with them at all. Yes, there are a few things to learn if you work on your own ride. A few new tools (new tools!!) and YouTube videos will take care of that.

Good luck in your search!

[Kirk007]

I wasn’t dragging my brakes on the descent from Sassetta to Suvereto, but I wasn’t pedaling much, either.

https://youtu.be/MS4VHA-GCm4

thread drift - can you imagine that road being your local ride - heaven!

[rollinslow]

Listen to the Cycling Tips podcast...then make a decision.


https://cyclingtips.com/2020/02/nerd-alert-podcast-how-to-make-the-perfect-disc-brake/

[commandcomm]

This of it this way. A rim brake is a really big disc.

I tried disc brakes and the squeaking is annoying. Tried everything. I went back to rim brakes.

[duff_duffy]

I like that quote!

This of it this way. A rim brake is a really big disc.

I tried disc brakes and the squeaking is annoying. Tried everything. I went back to rim brakes.

[Pinned]

LA descending being fast, steep, full of tight corners, and often trafficked...I wouldn't go back to rim brakes. Discs have more power, more modulation, easier ability to hold a specific amount of power, don't fade like carbon/rim brake combos. There are obviously some downsides - a bit more difficult to maintain, more expensive, heavier, whatever. Those are all outweighed IMO because I can ride more aggressively and have improved control.

If nothing else, it's a safety upgrade and that's worth it to me.

[j_roe]

I just switched back to a rim brake road bike.... Not going back to disc road anytime soon I'd say. For gravel and MTB I'll 100% be on disc. So to answer your question - you don't need disc brake.

[robt57]

I am in the camp that a 28" disc IS as good as it gets.

Having said that, if getting your rims replaced and dealing with Alloy grey muck too frequently as a result of wet riding, get discs. Muck and money. Assuming you pay someone to do it, or just get new wheels soon enough to not get speared in the calf/ankle with a rim fragment.

Even though I can replace a rim/rebuild a wheel in short order, I go disc for wet. cleaning that muck too frequently [at all] is not for me.

I also like lower weight wheel as it pertains to acceleration, and at 200 lb, low spoke count disc wheels are not a choice for me I'd make.

YMMV, but I doubt it. :bike:

[Mikej]

rim brakes suck -

[rollinslow]

rim brakes suck -

....said no Tour de France winner ever lol.

[colker]

rim brakes suck -

Indeed. Don´t brake and go faster.

[buddybikes]

think we are (again) donkeys against the elephants, but with bikes it's easier - one of each

[tomato coupe]

Somewhere, in a parallel universe, there is a world where disc brakes have been the standard on bicycles for many decades. On an internet forum in that world, people are discussing the merits of rim brakes, which have recently been introduced for use on road bikes. Forum members have many questions:

- Why would I want to switch to brakes that don't work well in the rain?

- Do I really have to use different brake pads on my carbon wheels and aluminum wheels?

- What do you mean they can overheat on long descents when using carbon wheels?

- They limit my tire size? Really?

- They're only going to be used on road bikes? We're going to continue using disc brakes on cross bikes, gravel bikes, and mountain bikes?

- And this is all just to save some money and a little bit of weight? Hmmm ...

[XXtwindad]

"no stars upon thars …."

[mhespenheide]

I don't live in Los Angeles. But I do live close to it, in similar conditions.

Disc advocates, help be understand. What's the big deal? I don't understand the need or attraction under these conditions. If you live in a wet location, sure. If you're intent on rocking carbon rims (particularly carbon clincher rims), sure.

But I've descended Baldy (from the Village to the flats) at an average of 40+mph, and never felt like it was my brakes holding me back. My own fear and the coefficient of friction of the tires, sure. But the brakes were "powerful enough", and those were single-pivot 1050 calipers. I don't want to go back to those brakes, but modern rim brakes are awesome. As others have pointed out, a rim brake is essentially a 28" disc. And they're simpler and more elegant -- and those are favorable points, in my book.

In dry conditions with aluminum rims, discs seem like a solution in search of a problem.

But! I've never ridden disc brakes on the road. So help me -- is there anything disc advocates can explain to help me understand? Or do I just live on in blissful ignorance and not worry about it?
:help:

[colker]

Somewhere, in a parallel universe, there is a world where disc brakes have been the standard on bicycles for many decades. On an internet forum in that world, people are discussing the merits of rim brakes, which have recently been introduced for use on road bikes. Forum members have many questions:

- Why would I want to switch to brakes that don't work well in the rain?

- Do I really have to use different brake pads on my carbon wheels and aluminum wheels?

- What do you mean they can overheat on long descents when using carbon wheels?

- They limit my tire size? Really?

- They're only going to be used on road bikes? We're going to continue using disc brakes on cross bikes, gravel bikes, and mountain bikes?

- And this is all just to save some money and a little bit of weight? Hmmm ...

_ Because we don´t want to ride when it´s raining that hard.
_ Switch wheels, switch pads. Easy.
_ Do you descend big mountains? Is that what you ride?
_ Why would you want anything fatter than 28 on a...fast road bike?
_ Cross bikes can stop well enough w/ cantis and it´s much easier to switch/ find pit wheels without the need to align rotors.
_ YES!

[colker]

I don't live in Los Angeles. But I do live close to it, in similar conditions.

Disc advocates, help be understand. What's the big deal? I don't understand the need or attraction under these conditions. If you live in a wet location, sure. If you're intent on rocking carbon rims (particularly carbon clincher rims), sure.

But I've descended Baldy (from the Village to the flats) at an average of 40+mph, and never felt like it was my brakes holding me back. My own fear and the coefficient of friction of the tires, sure. But the brakes were "powerful enough", and those were single-pivot 1050 calipers. I don't want to go back to those brakes, but modern rim brakes are awesome. As others have pointed out, a rim brake is essentially a 28" disc. And they're simpler and more elegant -- and those are favorable points, in my book.

In dry conditions with aluminum rims, discs seem like a solution in search of a problem.

But! I've never ridden disc brakes on the road. So help me -- is there anything disc advocates can explain to help me understand? Or do I just live on in blissful ignorance and not worry about it?
:help:

Because there is the need to evangelize. Riding disc brakes is not enough.. you have to convert every single other bike to discs.

[tomato coupe]

In dry conditions with aluminum rims, discs seem like a solution in search of a problem.

Sure. But, that's like saying that on perfectly smooth roads, wider tires are a solution looking for a problem.

[lavi]

If you're planning to descend Decker

Prob my fav descent that I've ever ridden. So damn good!!! Yes, discs would be good on this one. I did it on enve 4.5 ses. Got a bit nervous sometimes, but just added to the fun. I love going downhill!

[Kirk007]

Or do I just live on in blissful ignorance and not worry about it?
:help:

I think if I lived in Los Olivos I could be blissfully ignorant of a whole lot things:)

[bikinchris]

You don’t need discs anywhere. That’s my vote.

You don't need a new bike either.

[mhespenheide]

Sure. But, that's like saying that on perfectly smooth roads, wider tires are a solution looking for a problem.

Fair enough. But I'm happy with aluminum rims, and it's dry here pretty much all the time. Do you want to convince me for that use case?

[mhespenheide]

I think if I lived in Los Olivos I could be blissfully ignorant of a whole lot things:)

Come on down! I can even loan you a bike that should fit you. :)

[tomato coupe]

Fair enough. But I'm happy with aluminum rims, and it's dry here pretty much all the time. Do you want to convince me for that use case?
No.

[19wisconsin64]

Long fast descents down sweeping curves with cracks, sand, and wackadoo rich early morning race car wannabee Porsche-driving lane hogs...... Well, it's LA.

Love riding up and down the hills and mountains of the area, but have noticed in recent years the need for the best brakes possible. Next time I ride it will be on borrowed/rented disc brake-equipped bike. The level of speed you get up to going downhill will surprise you....40-50 mph.

It's beautiful riding out there, enjoy!

[rollinslow]

Honestly, when I descended trail ridge road starting at 13,000 ft into grand lake (highest continuous paved road in North America) on my 10 year old rim brake travel bike spec'd with top notch components and dura ace C24's I knew discs had no purpose on most road bikes. Sure, you could be an idiot and ride cheap carbon clinchers up there and delaminate them. The point is that for the last several decades rim brakes proved themselves on the biggest descents in the world.

Rain and snow are non-issues on a lot of the big climbs because they will simply be closed. You would be crazy to ride in anything that isn't sun and clear sky above tree line.

[colker]

"Do i need discs in Los Angeles?" Who knows? Go ahead and try one. If you like it, yeah.. you want it. "Do I need new trousers?" Maybe. It´s up to you to decide. I don´t care.
Rim brakes make bikes lighter and lightweight is a huge point. Millions of cyclists are happy w/ rim brakes. Others want something else. Why waste so much internet space w/ this never ending non sense? It´s pathethic.

[DeBike]

You don’t need discs anywhere. That’s my vote.


Agreed. The word need is highly overused, and I am certainly guilty of that.

[merlinmurph]

OP: Well, that pretty much sums it up. You should have it all figured out by now - Get what you want. Nobody will laugh at you.

Good luck with the purchase.

[Black Dog]

I don’t think discs brakes are any better than correctly adjusted quality rim brakes on road bikes as long as the roads are dry and you have good rims. The brake tracking on my Campy Bora Ultra II’s combined with campy or eebrakes were awesome. Even on moist roads I notice not a drop in performance. Wet roads there is a drop.

The question I have is do disc brakes still have brake fade on long descents that can be typical in LA?

I have been wondering this about discs forever. As well as pad longevity under these conditions. Anyone care to chime in?

[Black Dog]

Sure. But, that's like saying that on perfectly smooth roads, wider tires are a solution looking for a problem.

On very smooth roads at very high speeds this is true. Two conditions that rarely happen for most riders most of the time.

[Clean39T]

"Do i need discs in Los Angeles?" Who knows? Go ahead and try one. If you like it, yeah.. you want it. "Do I need new trousers?" Maybe. It´s up to you to decide. I don´t care.


Why waste so much internet space w/ this never ending non sense? It´s pathethic.

Reading this in Rip Torn's voice made me chuckle...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp-1fYgWsAAOoGD.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Tony]

Reading this in Rip Torn's voice made me chuckle...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

:)

[Dave]

Each rider should make his/ her own decision based on need and quit worrying about what others do. The biggest change I've made since coming back to cycling in July of 2018 is installing 25mm wide tires. I still ride with rim brakes. My weight will always be in the 135-145 range and I wouldn't deliberately ride in wet conditions. I like to enjoy my rides, not endure them.

Starting in 2003, I rode about 36,000 miles in the Colorado mountains over a 7 year period, all on 23mm tires . I rode from Idaho Springs to the top of Mt. Evans and back down 6 times and never had a problem. I also rode the same 10 mile winding descent 700 times without a problem. I didn't wear out rims or brake pads.

During my 8 year hiatus, I missed the disc brake, fat tire revolution. In the last 18 months, I've read of so many problems with disc brakes and tubeless tires that I want neither one. I could care less what others do. Do what suits you. I haven't had a flat tire in the last 5700 miles.

I figured out that disc brakes add so much weight that you need to spend twice as much for a ultra-light frame, to get the same weight as a rim brake bike with a very nice, but not top of the line frame.

[Tickdoc]

This post is hilarious. I haven’t read every bit of it but my goodness 5 pages on whether or not you NEED discs brakes in L.A.? One more reason why I love this place.

[Tickdoc]

This post is hilarious. I haven’t read every bit of it but my goodness 5 pages on whether or not you NEED discs brakes in L.A.? One more example of why I love this place.:banana:

[Burnette]

This post is hilarious. I haven’t read every bit of it but my goodness 5 pages on whether or not you NEED discs brakes in L.A.? One more example of why I love this place.:banana:

I dunno, it doesn't have the passion of a "is Assos and Rapha worth the money" thread.

[colker]

I dunno, it doesn't have the passion of a "is Assos and Rapha worth the money" thread.

Where were you Burnette? This thread needs more traction.

[Burnette]

Where were you Burnette? This thread needs more traction.

There's nothing here. Whether some needs them or not is a personal decision, so whatever.

Now if you want to get the kids riled up, head over to the fashion thread and revive that. There was some funny stuff in that one.

[benb]

are you asaying that road calipers are more maintenance??

No sorry if that was unclear.

IMO:

Road calipers - almost no maintenance and very easy, performance stays relatively consistent
Hydraulics- almost no maintenance but harder/needs more tools, performance stays very consistent between maintenance
Vs/Mini-Vs - Frequent maintenance to the point of annoyance, more performance drop off unless you stay on it
Cantis- frequent maintenance and steepest performance drop off if you don’t stay on top of it


But my perception is LA is such an easy environment for brake wear all should be fine.

[tomato coupe]

Honestly, when I descended trail ridge road starting at 13,000 ft ... Trail Ridge Road doesn't go to 13,000 ft.

Rain and snow are non-issues on a lot of the big climbs because they will simply be closed.

I've never heard of road closures in the Rockies due to rain, other than in extreme circumstances, i.e. flooding or mud slides. They certainly don't close them when the normal afternoon thunderstorm hits.

You would be crazy to ride in anything that isn't sun and clear sky above tree line.
It's all fine and good to say you should only ride when it's sunny, but Mother Nature does not always cooperate. Thunderstorms can hit fast in the mountains, with very little warning.

[tomato coupe]

The point is that for the last several decades rim brakes proved themselves on the biggest descents in the world.
You could say the same thing about steel and aluminum frames, 5 speed freewheels, and downtube shifters. That doesn't mean there aren't advantages to carbon frames, 10/11/12 speed cassettes, and integrated brake/shifters.

[Tony]

No sorry if that was unclear.

IMO:

Road calipers - almost no maintenance and very easy, performance stays relatively consistent
Hydraulics- almost no maintenance but harder/needs more tools, performance stays very consistent between maintenance
Vs/Mini-Vs - Frequent maintenance to the point of annoyance, more performance drop off unless you stay on it
Cantis- frequent maintenance and steepest performance drop off if you don’t stay on top of it

Vs, Mini Vs don't need frequent maintenance, not in my experience?
I would say Hydraulics need more attention than Vs/Mini Vs.

[Dave]

Info on trail ridge road, 12,183' :

https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/trail_ridge_road.htm

I haven't done trail ridge by bike but drove up it many times. The traffic is awful and there are no shoulders for the most part. Winds can make it dangerous.

Mount Evans is quite a bit higher at over 14,000. My last and fastest trip up was in 2006 when I was 53. 2 hours, 35 minutes, from Idaho Springs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Evans

The problem with either can be sudden rain and severe winds.

All of my rides to the top of Evans had temperatures in the mid 40's, except for one when it was only 36. That descent was tough since I was under dressed.

The road can be in bad shape, and require quite a bit of braking, but the slopes are not that steep. My rim brakes worked fine, with 135 lb rider.

[IJWS]

OP here, I was initially looking for some feedback from riders in the L.A. area about whether disc brakes would improve my riding experience here in L.A. I was convinced that I would be fine with my aerolinks and ksyrium exaliths after a page or two...the rest has just been for entertainment.

I am actually laid up with a broken leg right now but I have a new frame that was delivered two days after I was hit by a car. I killed a lot of time in the first month of my recovery researching what bike I might want to buy when I could ride again, but while taking large doses of OxyContin and Percocet. It was kind of like what we all do on paceline, but while floating on a cloud.

I don’t see much on the market that makes my heart beat faster. The aesthetics of discs don’t do it for me and I am surprised that carbon rims that don’t have to deal with braking forces aren’t that much lighter. I thought I would ask the forum if the bike industry had me chasing my tail, or if I just wasn’t getting it.

Feel free to continue the flame war and thanks for all the responses!

[Tony]

OP here, I was initially looking for some feedback from riders in the L.A. area about whether disc brakes would improve my riding experience here in L.A. I was convinced that I would be fine with my aerolinks and ksyrium exaliths after a page or two...the rest has just been for entertainment.

I am actually laid up with a broken leg right now but I have a new frame that was delivered two days after I was hit by a car. I killed a lot of time in the first month of my recovery researching what bike I might want to buy when I could ride again, but while taking large doses of OxyContin and Percocet. It was kind of like what we all do on paceline, but while floating on a cloud.

I don’t see much on the market that makes my heart beat faster. The aesthetics of discs don’t do it for me and I am surprised that carbon rims that don’t have to deal with braking forces aren’t that much lighter. I thought I would ask the forum if the bike industry had me chasing my tail, or if I just wasn’t getting it.

Feel free to continue the flame war and thanks for all the responses!

May consider holding back on purchases and important decisions while on that cloud:)

[dem]

I have been wondering this about discs forever. As well as pad longevity under these conditions. Anyone care to chime in?

I am the most abusive disc brake user I've ever heard of, and I get 1000 miles on pads (ceramic-organic pads from discobrakes) and 2000 miles on rotors (shimano ice tech, 180 mm front, 160 rear) - so that's probably worst case wear rates. :)

I have never experienced fade.

Also long descents are not really a problem (trail ridge, evans. you can ride those on anything.. they are not steep enough or twisty enough to generate a ton of heat.) - what really kills brakes is STEEP (>15%) with lots of sharp turns (or cars) that make you constantly have to hammer the brakes. There are very few paved roads that are steep, twisty AND long.

Dirt roads (which is my scenario) are worse, because you never get up to terminal velocity (or it would likely be VERY terminal on some of those 30% dirt grades on skinny gravel tires)

Conclusion for me: For regular road riding on alloy rims, disc is not necessary. If you want to run carbon clinchers, disc for sure.

[joosttx]

Conclusion for me: For regular road riding on alloy rims, disc is not necessary. If you want to run carbon clinchers, disc for sure.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

[mtechnica]

OP here, I was initially looking for some feedback from riders in the L.A. area about whether disc brakes would improve my riding experience here in L.A. I was convinced that I would be fine with my aerolinks and ksyrium exaliths after a page or two...the rest has just been for entertainment.

I am actually laid up with a broken leg right now but I have a new frame that was delivered two days after I was hit by a car. I killed a lot of time in the first month of my recovery researching what bike I might want to buy when I could ride again, but while taking large doses of OxyContin and Percocet. It was kind of like what we all do on paceline, but while floating on a cloud.

I don’t see much on the market that makes my heart beat faster. The aesthetics of discs don’t do it for me and I am surprised that carbon rims that don’t have to deal with braking forces aren’t that much lighter. I thought I would ask the forum if the bike industry had me chasing my tail, or if I just wasn’t getting it.

Feel free to continue the flame war and thanks for all the responses!

I totally understand where you’re coming from. These days it’s hard to not start wondering if you’re missing out by not going disc. I had a Santa Cruz with Shimano disc brakes for a while so I know what they’re capable of, but good rim brakes (basically Shimano or campy brakes with good pads and aluminum rims) are almost as good most of the time. I feel like if you’re dragging the brakes all the time you’ll overheat rims OR discs. In my experience disc brakes get hot then start screaming until they cool down, but at least you’re not going to blow a tube or something.

[colker]

If you want to run carbon clinchers, disc for sure.

Carbon and tubulars make more sense to me. ymmv.
I wouldn´t fight a carbon rim w/ a tire lever trying to change tubes.

[benb]

Vs, Mini Vs don't need frequent maintenance, not in my experience?
I would say Hydraulics need more attention than Vs/Mini Vs.

There are so many variables to this, your variables could be very different than mine. Your weather is dry and you may be dealing with sand, I'm dealing with wet weather and mud.

Also I think unique in these discussions I am mostly talking about my experiences with MTB brakes, not road brakes. I have always rode Hayes on my MTB, always with DOT fluid, always with sintered metallic or semi-metallic pads. I am of the opinion my setup is longer lasting/lower maintenance than the Shimano stuff that most people have experience with... my wife has Shimano so I have some experience there. I really don't like the organic pads.

For me the discs go a really long time before maintenance, but I am saying they are the most PITA to work on once they need maintenance. Pad changes are no big deal but any time you need to bleed, etc.. that's a bigger job.

My V-brake/Canti experiences have to do with the wet weather & pad wear, but the annoying part is that the brakes never stay centered as the pads wear, so I'm fairly frequently adjusting the arms on these styles of brakes to keep them working optimally and not rubbing. Road rim brakes I never seem to need to do this. I put pads in, I ride, I clean the bike, I adjust the barrel adjuster as the pads wear, then I put in the new pads. Way less frequent than my bike with V-brakes. The V-brake bike I'm adjusting stuff at least once a month. The disc bike once a year if that. But the V-brake bike I never have to worry about spilling fluid on the paint, there is that!

[KJMUNC]

A wise man once said.....(before he started selling bikes and needing reasons to convince people they needed more "better" stuff). btw, I live here and ride rim brakes on all of my bikes. Sure disc brakes would be nice to have when descending Tuna Cyn or Decker, but buying new gear to affect <2% of the miles on my ride seems silly.

[Tony]

There are so many variables to this, your variables could be very different than mine. Your weather is dry and you may be dealing with sand, I'm dealing with wet weather and mud.

Also I think unique in these discussions I am mostly talking about my experiences with MTB brakes, not road brakes. I have always rode Hayes on my MTB, always with DOT fluid, always with sintered metallic or semi-metallic pads. I am of the opinion my setup is longer lasting/lower maintenance than the Shimano stuff that most people have experience with... my wife has Shimano so I have some experience there. I really don't like the organic pads.

For me the discs go a really long time before maintenance, but I am saying they are the most PITA to work on once they need maintenance. Pad changes are no big deal but any time you need to bleed, etc.. that's a bigger job.

My V-brake/Canti experiences have to do with the wet weather & pad wear, but the annoying part is that the brakes never stay centered as the pads wear, so I'm fairly frequently adjusting the arms on these styles of brakes to keep them working optimally and not rubbing. Road rim brakes I never seem to need to do this. I put pads in, I ride, I clean the bike, I adjust the barrel adjuster as the pads wear, then I put in the new pads. Way less frequent than my bike with V-brakes. The V-brake bike I'm adjusting stuff at least once a month. The disc bike once a year if that. But the V-brake bike I never have to worry about spilling fluid on the paint, there is that!

I agree, many variables. I do remember my two older steel mtbs, Ibis Mojo with XTs and a team only Rocky mountain with XTR V brakes when in use years ago in wet, mud conditions needing more attention but now converted over to city cruisers need no adjustments.
I have two cross bikes with Mini Vs and after setting them up I have rarely touched them, however they don't see much bad weather. I also have Sram Red AeroLink brakes which have a similar adjustment on the arms as Vs and like the Vs little attention once adjusted.

[cgolvin]

OP here, I was initially looking for some feedback from riders in the L.A. area about whether disc brakes would improve my riding experience here in L.A.

First and foremost, glad you are ok and best of luck with your ongoing recovery. I'm going to visit a friend this week who just got moved from the hospital to after care following an encounter with a careless driver. It's dangerous out there.

I am a local. I regularly do all of the descents previously mentioned (and one not mentioned: Deer Creek) on rim brakes, using both aluminum and carbon rims, both clincher and tubular. I am a confident descender. When I got my first set of carbon wheels I was slightly nervous about overheating them but have never experienced any issues, though I am more aware of how I brake. The braking performance on my aluminum rims is clearly superior than on the carbon rims, and that's more true in wet conditions, but both are more than adequate in my experience.

To your specific question, the only way that disc brakes would improve your LA riding experience is if you feel that your descending enjoyment is hindered by a lack of confidence in your brakes. The issue isn't one of which type of brake/wheel combo performs better, but which type gives you the greatest confidence and therefore ability to focus on the experience without qualms about being able to control your speed.

The best advice came early in the thread, which I'll modify here: take your existing bike down the hill on which you have the least confidence (Tuna's a good candidate IMO), then demo a disc bike and do the same. If you enjoy the second descent more then discs are a good choice for you.

[Gummee]

Ahhh, nothing like a good disc vs. caliper discussion....

you mis-spelled 'religious argument' there tough guy

M

[merlinmurph]

Pad changes are no big deal but any time you need to bleed, etc.. that's a bigger job.


Hmmm, really? I'm curious what other people's experiences are. I've had Shimano discs for 4 years now, and after viewing some YouTube videos and buying a bleed kit, I find bleeding brakes is trivial. Much easier that dealing with cantis. I'm just a home wrench with basic wrench skills who takes 10x longer to do things than a shop, and find the process easy.

But, maybe others have had issues? I'm curious. Oh I'm sure there are ways to screw up (been there), but what issues have people had with regular maintenance? Sorry, maybe we shouldn't drift this thread...

[tomato coupe]

Much easier that dealing with cantis.

A few people have made similar comments about cantis. I've never owned them -- what makes them high(er) maintenance?

[colker]

A few people have made similar comments about cantis. I've never owned them -- what makes them high(er) maintenance?

Fine adjust of cantis is hard. That´s the main reason V brakes were widely adopted since it´s very easy to set them up. Cantis can stop as good as V brakes and they gove better clearance w/ fat tires... but adjusting them to perfection takes experience. Otoh you can have a variety of different "feel" from the brakes by playing w/ their geometry; cable length etc...
Also, the older cantis are much easier at stoppping power than the 90s"low profile" generation.

[BobO]

The best advice came early in the thread, which I'll modify here: take your existing bike down the hill on which you have the least confidence (Tuna's a good candidate IMO), then demo a disc bike and do the same. If you enjoy the second descent more then discs are a good choice for you.

A friend and I (who are very similar in size) swapped bikes for about an hour one day. His was rim brakes on alloy wheels, mine discs. After a few small downhills he commented that the rim brakes were fine for him, the discs were definitely confidence inspiring. When I got on that rim brake bike and tried to stop, my first thought was, "where the hell are my brakes!"

[benb]

Hmmm, really? I'm curious what other people's experiences are. I've had Shimano discs for 4 years now, and after viewing some YouTube videos and buying a bleed kit, I find bleeding brakes is trivial. Much easier that dealing with cantis. I'm just a home wrench with basic wrench skills who takes 10x longer to do things than a shop, and find the process easy.

But, maybe others have had issues? I'm curious. Oh I'm sure there are ways to screw up (been there), but what issues have people had with regular maintenance? Sorry, maybe we shouldn't drift this thread...

I've had to bleed my hydraulic brakes (2? and then 1 time for my wifes?) so few times in the 13 years I've had them that I've just never gotten that good at it. I am not saying it's that bad. But in the case of DOT fluid you're dealing with something hazardous that can also eat the paint off your frame, etc.. to me that is an extra PITA factor. Not that I want to be getting the Shimano mineral oil on my hands or anything else either. At least with DOT you know what you're dealing with.

Whereas I'm quite good at adjusting V-brakes at this point. Cause in the same time period I've done 2-3 bleeds on hydros I've probably had to recenter my V-brakes > 100 times.

It takes me way less time to fiddle with the V-brakes on a given day but if you add up all the time I've spent doing it then I've spent a huge amount more time on it than I've spent doing anything to my disc brakes.

Also no matter how careful I am to clean V-brakes the calipers always find a way to corrode and wear out in about 1/5th the time the discs do.

I got my MTB in 2005 and it's on it's 3rd set of brakes. It had V-brakes on it when I got it, after 2 seasons I put hydraulic discs on it. In 2012 I put a 2nd set of hydraulic discs on it after the rear caliper corroded and froze. I have been more careful with how I clean the calipers since then and the current set is still doing great after 8 years.

My All City Space Horse I bought in late 2013. It's on the 4th set of rim brakes. It came with Tektro CR720s. I hated those so technically didn't wear them out. It is on it's 3rd pair of TRP CX9s right now. They aren't in great shape, but I'm being a bit more careful staying out of the rain right now and I haven't taken the fenders off in > 1 year so they are lasting a little longer.

I had the fancy Shimano parallel push V-brakes back in the day.. they were great when they were brand new but IMO they were sunny day/dry weather/raceday brakes. They had so many more pivot points to corrode if they were used in bad weather. They didn't last very long for me.

[Gummee]

A friend and I (who are very similar in size) swapped bikes for about an hour one day. His was rim brakes on alloy wheels, mine discs. After a few small downhills he commented that the rim brakes were fine for him, the discs were definitely confidence inspiring. When I got on that rim brake bike and tried to stop, my first thought was, "where the hell are my brakes!"

I get that when I swap back to my Spirit bike w rim brakes. ....till I ride it a bit, then braking's normal again.

On a road bike, the traction/braking friction of the tires is always going to be limiter not the brakes themselves.

M

[Tony]

I've had to bleed my hydraulic brakes (2? and then 1 time for my wifes?) so few times in the 13 years I've had them that I've just never gotten that good at it. I am not saying it's that bad. But in the case of DOT fluid you're dealing with something hazardous that can also eat the paint off your frame, etc.. to me that is an extra PITA factor. Not that I want to be getting the Shimano mineral oil on my hands or anything else either. At least with DOT you know what you're dealing with.

Whereas I'm quite good at adjusting V-brakes at this point. Cause in the same time period I've done 2-3 bleeds on hydros I've probably had to recenter my V-brakes > 100 times.

It takes me way less time to fiddle with the V-brakes on a given day but if you add up all the time I've spent doing it then I've spent a huge amount more time on it than I've spent doing anything to my disc brakes.

Also no matter how careful I am to clean V-brakes the calipers always find a way to corrode and wear out in about 1/5th the time the discs do.

I got my MTB in 2005 and it's on it's 3rd set of brakes. It had V-brakes on it when I got it, after 2 seasons I put hydraulic discs on it. In 2012 I put a 2nd set of hydraulic discs on it after the rear caliper corroded and froze. I have been more careful with how I clean the calipers since then and the current set is still doing great after 8 years.

My All City Space Horse I bought in late 2013. It's on the 4th set of rim brakes. It came with Tektro CR720s. I hated those so technically didn't wear them out. It is on it's 3rd pair of TRP CX9s right now. They aren't in great shape, but I'm being a bit more careful staying out of the rain right now and I haven't taken the fenders off in > 1 year so they are lasting a little longer.

I had the fancy Shimano parallel push V-brakes back in the day.. they were great when they were brand new but IMO they were sunny day/dry weather/raceday brakes. They had so many more pivot points to corrode if they were used in bad weather. They didn't last very long for me.

I think there may be something wrong with your V brakes. Maybe damaged/weak spring arms, pivot area compromised, concave washers set up correctly?

[Hilltopwalters]

I had disc brakes for awhile after having rim brakes and then recently went back to rim brakes with my carbon wheels. If the weather turns south, I am going to ride carefully whether or not I am on disc or rim. But, I have to admit, I find myself liking rim brakes more because they're not as sensitive as disc and it makes the climbing I so dearly love a bit easier.

[Robot870]

I tell ya - Rim brakes with Shimano calipers and those new plus wheels from HED are a really amazing ride. Full stop wet or dry and i cant believe im running 70psi with 23mm tires........

[benb]

I think there may be something wrong with your V brakes. Maybe damaged/weak spring arms, pivot area compromised, concave washers set up correctly?

We probably have 100 days of rain for every 1 you do. How many days have you rode yours on chemically treated winter roads?

That's all it is. All the parts wear faster than other designs in that situation and the design is not stable on its own as parts wear. Practically everything on a V-brake or Canti is exposed and located for maximum splash when the weather is bad.

I'm not talking about 1 set of brakes. I'm talking about my experience with at least 20 sets of brakes since I started riding from a variety of manufacturers.

When I'm riding a lot a set of Vs does not make it 2 seasons. Most of them don't come apart completely to be cleaned and relubricated which is a huge problem. Contaminants get into the pivots and ruin them and they get harder and harder to actuate. Eventually the springs can't even open them back up. As the pivots get stiffer the adjustments tend to start going out of balance. The pivots start out on a brand new pair both working the same but they don't wear out at the same rate so the springs usually require adjusting over time.

A dual pivot road caliper locates all the parts in question above the Fender if you have Fenders so they stay much more protected.

[tctyres]

We probably have 100 days of rain for every 1 you do. How many days have you rode yours on chemically treated winter roads?

...

A dual pivot road caliper locates all the parts in question above the Fender if you have Fenders so they stay much more protected.

FYI, Bedford gets ~47in rain, Sacramento gets about 18.5 in per year, so probably more like 3:1, not 100:1.

Back on topic, V-brakes are notoriously bad at keeping crud out of the pivots. I never had as many problems with cantilevers or any other types of brakes. It's one of the reasons I hate v-brakes. They are great in the summertime, though.

[IJWS]

Back on topic, V-brakes...

This is the topic? :banana:

[jadedaid]

Hmmm, really? I'm curious what other people's experiences are. I've had Shimano discs for 4 years now, and after viewing some YouTube videos and buying a bleed kit, I find bleeding brakes is trivial. Much easier that dealing with cantis. I'm just a home wrench with basic wrench skills who takes 10x longer to do things than a shop, and find the process easy.

I haven't had to my new SRAM brakes yet but Shimano brakes are easy to bleed. If you buy the right kit (hose cutters, bleed kit, etc.) then the whole installation process is pretty straight forward on a new bike. If they are anything to go by, then the concern with the bleeding process is mostly down to unfamiliarity versus familiarity with rim brakes.

I haven't run good rim brakes in a long time but I hear that the new ones are pretty damn great. I ride my bikes in awful NY conditions year round so discs makes good sense to me. YMMV.