Another bike shop (sad) story

[Clancy]

A friend related this but I went online to confirm the facts.

My friend walked into a LBS that just opened in the small town of Boerne, Texas, a small town on the northside of San Antonio. He asked for a brake cable. The owner said sure, here’s one, and that will be $29.95.

I did what many of you are probably doing..... What?!? I repeatedly asked him if this was for a kit with housing or something else but no, $29.95 for one brake cable.

The bike shop is a Trek franchise.

He returned home, looked it up on the website and yes, Trek lists a “pro” cable at $29.95. He went to a different bike shop and paid $3 for a Jagwire cable. But he knew better. We both wondered what happens when someone who’s just trying to fix his kid’s bike walks in and is faced with that kind of money for something so basic.

Are the two of us wrong for thinking this shop is not going to last if they go about doing business this way? Maybe the person who rides a $8,000 Project One doesn’t mind paying $30 for a cable, but for the average (small town) consumer that seems completely absurd.

[oldpotatoe]

A friend related this but I went online to confirm the facts.

My friend walked into a LBS that just opened in the small town of Boerne, Texas, a small town on the northside of San Antonio. He asked for a brake cable. The owner said sure, here’s one, and that will be $29.95.

I did what many of you are probably doing..... What?!? I repeatedly asked him if this was for a kit with housing or something else but no, $29.95 for one brake cable.

The bike shop is a Trek franchise.

He returned home, looked it up on the website and yes, Trek lists a “pro” cable at $29.95. He went to a different bike shop and paid $3 for a Jagwire cable. But he knew better. We both wondered what happens when someone who’s just trying to fix his kid’s bike walks in and is faced with that kind of money for something so basic.

Are the two of us wrong for thinking this shop is not going to last if they go about doing business this way? Maybe the person who rides a $8,000 Project One doesn’t mind paying $30 for a cable, but for the average (small town) consumer that seems completely absurd.

Nope and the 'owner' is clueless, as many owners of many, business' are. I doubt Trek is driving that train but they may be. If the 'owner' really thinks a brake cable should retail for $29.95, he's also ignorant of things like margins, fixed costs, etc...

What's the shop? I'd love to send him an email to ask about this..I'd love to see his answer, if he does answer.

Living 360 bike shop?

Yowser, it IS directed from Trek...their price..really dumb, IMHO.
He's being a good Trek soldier...


https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-tools-maintenance/bike-cables-housing/bontrager-pro-road-brake-cable/p/24741/

[ftf]

Sounds like they are preying on ignorance.

[oldpotatoe]

Sounds like they are preying on ignorance.

Not only them..I killed a tire on my new-ish VW..went to the dealer for a replacement..$260!!..Same tire at Discount tires was $135...

[yinzerniner]

Nope and the 'owner' is clueless, as many owners of many, business' are. I doubt Trek is driving that train but they may be. If the 'owner' really thinks a brake cable should retail for $29.95, he's also ignorant of things like margins, fixed costs, etc...

What's the shop? I'd love to send him an email to ask about this..I'd love to see his answer, if he does answer.

Living 360 bike shop?

Yowser, it IS directed from Trek...their price..really dumb, IMHO.
He's being a good Trek soldier...


https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-tools-maintenance/bike-cables-housing/bontrager-pro-road-brake-cable/p/24741/
If this is one of the Trek branded stores then yes, Trek is driving the bus and the prices for small items are bonkers.

Went to get a new freehub body for a bontrager wheelset (which I’m sure uses either dt or novatec internals ) and a set of tubeless valves. $110 for the body, $40 for the valves. No discount, roughly 50% more than other retail comparables.

Looking at the other small items in store and it’s much the same idea. All accessories are bontrager branded and priced way above comparable items msrp

Not sure what the reasoning on this is other than maybe to suck people in with good bikes at reasonable prices then gouge them on the wear items from their in house brands. It’s like the printer ink economic models but even more egregious.

[R3awak3n]

yes trek is definitely responsive for msrp at their stores. I don't think it would look good if at the store the same cable is $29.99 and then on the official trek website its $9.99.

Its some sort of fancy schmancy cable. I am sure they have a good description for it, how it shifts better, faster, longer, ect. Its dumb they don't offer cheaper cables but I am not surprised there are $30 cables.

[GregL]

It’s an LBS problem, not a Trek problem...

[Veloo]

https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-tools-maintenance/bike-cables-housing/bontrager-pro-road-brake-cable/p/24741/?colorCode=grey

Ultra-low-friction cable is rust-proof, comes pre-stretched, and includes cable end cap

Well, it DOES come with an end cap.

[unterhausen]

When my lbs was a trek dealer, I always thought the Bontrager parts were fairly priced. Most of them are pretty good too. But they never carried Bontrager incidentals like cables and tubes.

Trek got greedy and wanted them to be an all-Trek concept store, which wasn't going to work. Now Trek's closest store is in Altoona, and also sells lawnmowers. But they are otherwise all-trek.

[bigbill]

I have a Bontrager MTB helmet that is pretty nice but I wouldn't have bought it without it being on sale. The sale price brought it down to other comparable brands, the Bontrager really fits my head well.

When I was walking out of the LBS, I recalled buying 26" rims from Keith way back in the day when he was selling them from his car. Those narrow rims about the width of an MA40.

[Mark McM]

I think this is may be partially a Trek problem, but is mostly a retailer problem. Even if the retailer is required or chooses to only stock Trek small parts, Trek still has much more reasonably priced parts. On the Trek cables web page (https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-tools-maintenance/bike-cables-housing/c/E341/), they have brake inner cables from $29.99 (Bontrager Pro) to $5.99 (Bontrager Comp), plus a Bontrager Universal Brake Cable kit (zinc coated cable with both road and MTB ends, plus full housing) for $4.99 (the $5.99 Bontrager Comp may still be a little overpriced for a stainless steel brake cable, but not outrageously so).

A local shop in Burlington, MA (The Cycle Loft (https://www.cycleloft.com/product-list/parts-1051/cables-1056/)) is a full on Trek shop. They don't even stock the $29.99 Bontrager Pro cable, they have the $19.99 Bontrager Elite, the $5.99 Bontrager Comp and the $4.99 Bontrager Universal Cable kit. However, they also stock other brands (such as the Jagwire Sport cables for $4.99).

The main problem here seems to be what this retailer is choosing to stock, or their attempt to up-sell customers.

[shinomaster]

My friend just paid $40 to have a rear shifter cable replaced on a shimano road bike which I think is really expensive.

[HenryA]

It may be part of how Trek convinces shops to become part of their exclusive program. Just look at all that margin on our parts!

[Seramount]

Nelo's, one of Austin's long-time, high-end shops recently closed.

not sure of the exact reason for its demise, but I stopped going for there for service when I had a FD cable replaced a while back...had to leave the bike there for 4 days (?) and got a bill for $50. say whuuuut...?

for comparison...another shop did the same job for $17 and turned it around while I browsed and had a cup of coffee.

up-scale pricing is one thing, but blatantly gouging customers is a stupid business practice.

on the positive side, being burned on the cable job did push me to learn how to DIY, so there's that...

[unterhausen]

I wonder if that's the bike shop I went to in Austin. Nobody could be bothered to acknowledge my presence. Too fat, I guess.

[Ralph]

And yet.....bike shops aren't overly profitable as a group. Retail is just tough. Not making excuses for that particular shop. But wonder if it's not part of a bigger shift in how most of us shop. As a fairly knowledgeable cycle parts consumer....I would just order it from Amazon or similar. The shops gotta make profits somewhere....which further leads to their demise. I imagine Trek has figured out we are not their target market. They want to look more like a BMW dealership.

[peanutgallery]

The margins on a cable or housing are crazy good, but not that good

Regular Jagwire polished/stainless are like $3.50 each, fair deal all around. For the discerning customer, there's a handful of the pro polished for like maybe 10 to 15 bucks each. $30 plus is a little crazy

Trek has done some interesting things to the retail model from their end. They own/control a growing number of stores and really push their retailers to buy into the model that they've developed. Involves a lot of pricing, training and buy in. No one is complaining from the retailer end, they seem happy

[fa63]

My friend just paid $40 to have a rear shifter cable replaced on a shimano road bike which I think is really expensive.I think it depends on the context. At my buddy's shop, a cable costs $7 plus $5 to install. But that is for a straightforward, external installation. For complicated internal routing, I think it costs $15 to install. So we are at $22. Then, there are times when the derailleur needs an adjustment as well. That is another $10 for a minor adjustment, $20 if it is major. So you can get to $40 pretty quickly.

I am not sure what your buddy's circumstances were, but just wanted to provide an example.

[peanutgallery]

Internally routed on a craptastic, internet brand and you get to $40 rather quickly with some fresh housing

I think it depends on the context. At my buddy's shop, a cable costs $7 plus $5 to install. But that is for a straightforward, external installation. For complicated internal routing, I think it costs $15 to install. So we are at $22. Then, there are times when the derailleur needs an adjustment as well. That is another $10 for a minor adjustment, $20 if it is major. So you can get to $40 pretty quickly.

I am not sure what your buddy's circumstances were, but just wanted to provide an example.

[robt57]

If the 'owner' really thinks a brake cable should retail for $29.95, he's also ignorant of things like margins, fixed costs, etc...

I'd add that if he based opening the store on markups like this expected, the store isn't likely to make it to lease end.

Having said that, if that is MSRP, it is not surprise that was the price. LBS usually add above MSRP it seems. Maybe add in additional for UPS overhead etc..

[Pegoready]

Playing devil's advocate here...

We've made it clear TREK actually has a brake cable that retails for $30. Whether that's insane or not is immaterial. The owner of the LBS wasn't trying to pass a $3 brake cable as a $30 brake cable. Imagine what Trek charges the LBS owner for that $30 brake cable, probably $15-$18. He ain't getting rich here... This should be more about Trek than the LBS.

The short sided vision is: dude you've never seen walks into your LBS. All he wants is a brake cable, nothing else, and you don't expect to see him again ever. Do you make $12 off him with the $30 retail cable or $0.50 selling a $3 cable? Rent and lights and staff ain't free even in a small town. Do you really want to spend the 15 minutes explaining the difference between a premium cable and a basic one, or sell him the premium one?

I could see both sides. Obviously, because your friend has a buddy like you to tell him he got ripped off, he won't be going back to that shop which is bad for the shop longterm.

[buddybikes]

Bontranger has 6! levels of cables/housing, guess could of been sold xxx level for 79.99

[charliedid]

Dude that cable is THC coated.

[johnniecakes]

I would like to know the difference between a Pro level cable and the ones I buy from the bulk pack where I shop. The owner pulls one cable from the big box on the shelf and charges me $3.00

[Hellgate]

Nelo's, one of Austin's long-time, high-end shops recently closed.



not sure of the exact reason for its demise, but I stopped going for there for service when I had a FD cable replaced a while back...had to leave the bike there for 4 days (?) and got a bill for $50. say whuuuut...?



for comparison...another shop did the same job for $17 and turned it around while I browsed and had a cup of coffee.



up-scale pricing is one thing, but blatantly gouging customers is a stupid business practice.



on the positive side, being burned on the cable job did push me to learn how to DIY, so there's that...His rent went through the roof.

[mtechnica]

The problem IMO is that you can’t pay people a living wage and also charge a fair price for basic tasks like changing a cable.

[charliedid]

I would like to know the difference between a Pro level cable and the ones I buy from the bulk pack where I shop. The owner pulls one cable from the big box on the shelf and charges me $3.00

$3.00 isn't enough.

[Clancy]

The problem IMO is that you can’t pay people a living wage and also charge a fair price for basic tasks like changing a cable.


And yes, that is THE problem.

[el cheapo]

Hate to hear Nelo's (Austin) closed. When I lived in town used to go to the old location on Anderson Lane. Bought a few things there and Nelo always treated me like I had spent thousands which I hadn't. Would have free beer during watch parties for the TDF. He moved to the new location when Performance Bike opened their store next door. Yeah his prices were kind of steep but he had the BEST bikes in Austin. Nice guy who knew how to satisfy his customers.

[HTupolev]

I would like to know the difference between a Pro level cable and the ones I buy from the bulk pack where I shop. The owner pulls one cable from the big box on the shelf and charges me $3.00
The very cheapest ones are plain stranded cable, generally stainless or galvanized steel.

The next level up are similar, but drawn through an extrusion die that reshapes the outer strands so that the cable has a smoother circular outer profile, to reduce friction.

Higher-end cables are also die-drawn, but might also be polished or given coatings (such as PTFE). Sometimes the fancy ones are sold as a system, i.e. coatings specifically intended to be used with housings with certain inner linings.

(To some degree it makes sense to always think of cables and housing as a system, considering the needs of one or the other. Like, it generally doesn't make sense to add lubricant to the housing or cable at the time of install if you're using a housing that uses a pre-lubricated liner.)

[Peter P.]

I would like to know the difference between a Pro level cable and the ones I buy from the bulk pack where I shop. The owner pulls one cable from the big box on the shelf and charges me $3.00

Your shop doesn't know how to make a profit.

[oldpotatoe]

Your shop doesn't know how to make a profit.

Depends..margin is margin. Most people who understand retail focus on fixed costs(rent, insurance, utilities, LABOR, etc), and then charge a 'margin' that will keep the lights on. Industry minimum to BREAK EVEN at end of year(no profit, no additional debt) is about a 36-38% margin(divide cost by .64-.62)..so sell a $30 cable, it costs the retailer about $20..
Soft goods=better margins, generally 'keystone', double cost to get retail $.
Labor best of all..I 'charged' $60 per hour of labor...BUT a delux tune-$160 when I was there..took about 90 minutes, un-interrupted..plus parts. $90 'cost', $160 price..about 47% margin..NOT mark-up, 'margin'...

BUT most bike shops just break even or a little less..

BUT..'don't know how to make a profit'...really, really tough in this interweb age. Gotta offer something NOT offered on the 'web'..like service.

[Clancy]

Your shop doesn't know how to make a profit.

???

In bulk, those cables are I believe are a little over $1 each. I’d say that’s a pretty hefty mark-up.

Mark-up on parts does not seem to be the problem. I find it sad that Trek or any company takes a single object and needlessly packages it in non-recyclable packaging and charges far more for it. Wrong on multiple levels.

But the bigger issue for this guy and his fledgling shop and so many countless others is the question of a living wage. After decades of cheap consumer products since the retail evolution of the big box stores we have come to expect very low prices and that now seems to have accelerated with retail innovations like Amazon Prime.

But that mind set of expectations is not compatible with the reality of people making a living wage.

Begs the question. Is it reasonably possible to make a living (a respectable comfortable income type of living) operating a bike shop? Everything I have read advises bike shop owners to focus on service, not sales. Mr. Barnett talks of setting up a bike shop where the first thing a customer sees is the service counter. Service in the front, sales in the back. With everyone buying on line, idea is service is where the money is. But can a bike shop charge enough for repairs to make it in todays price driven economy?

Regardless, no shop is going to last trying to sell $30 cables.

Glad I’m retired

[buddybikes]

Think e-bikes may be a positive game changer for shops. Less people going to work on them and it is bit more specialized. Also pain just to put on a stand (least if your back isn't too good). Perhaps as they become more mainstream, they will be crowded out, but that's retail - change

[oldpotatoe]

Think e-bikes may be a positive game changer for shops. Less people going to work on them and it is bit more specialized. Also pain just to put on a stand (least if your back isn't too good). Perhaps as they become more mainstream, they will be crowded out, but that's retail - change

Problem with any bike from a bike store, even a e-bike, with stores that aren't 'factory' stores, is the margins on 'bikes' is really awful. PLUS no compensation for assembly, service after the sale, etc..selling 'bikes' in a bike shop always not $$ intense.

[unterhausen]

my lbs sold an ebike. At a loss. They were happy to see it gone. Someone special ordered it and then a friend talked her out of it because it was too big. The friend also insisted the shop return her non-refundable deposit. Nice bike, I thought about buying it but it was too small. Looks like Trek has some online clearance deals on ebikes that are in the $700 range. That would definitely sell if they could hit that price point in stores, but they can't. And those online sales will probably be a nightmare for shops when people realize a new battery costs the same as they paid for the bike.

The problem I have seen with ebikes is that most ebikers are really cheap. $400 conversion kits are too much for a lot of them, they want $200 conversion kits. Imagine trying to sell them a wheel rebuild

[Mikej]

my lbs sold an ebike. At a loss. They were happy to see it gone. Someone special ordered it and then a friend talked her out of it because it was too big. The friend also insisted the shop return her non-refundable deposit. Nice bike, I thought about buying it but it was too small. Looks like Trek has some online clearance deals on ebikes that are in the $700 range. That would definitely sell if they could hit that price point in stores, but they can't. And those online sales will probably be a nightmare for shops when people realize a new battery costs the same as they paid for the bike.

The problem I have seen with ebikes is that most ebikers are really cheap. $400 conversion kits are too much for a lot of them, they want $200 conversion kits. Imagine trying to sell them a wheel rebuild

$700 trek ebike ? $2499 is the cheapest one.

[Elefantino]

The new Trek Store in CH is a ghost town. The store in Berkeley was, too. As was the store in Jacksonville.

It's either a pattern or it's just me.

[colker]

Owner could have sold him a 10k new disc brake bike. Why not?

[unterhausen]

$700 trek ebike ? $2499 is the cheapest one.

Did I mention they were clearance? I'm trying to figure out how I could be more clear
Looks like Trek has some online clearance deals on ebikes that are in the $700 range. That would definitely sell if they could hit that price point in stores, but they can't.
https://shop.trektravel.com/collections/all/products/trek-xm700

I have heard of clearance electra ebikes going for just over $1000 in stores so no link

[Ralph]

Depends..margin is margin. Most people who understand retail focus on fixed costs(rent, insurance, utilities, LABOR, etc), and then charge a 'margin' that will keep the lights on. Industry minimum to BREAK EVEN at end of year(no profit, no additional debt) is about a 36-38% margin(divide cost by .64-.62)..so sell a $30 cable, it costs the retailer about $20..
Soft goods=better margins, generally 'keystone', double cost to get retail $.
Labor best of all..I 'charged' $60 per hour of labor...BUT a delux tune-$160 when I was there..took about 90 minutes, un-interrupted..plus parts. $90 'cost', $160 price..about 47% margin..NOT mark-up, 'margin'...

BUT most bike shops just break even or a little less..

BUT..'don't know how to make a profit'...really, really tough in this interweb age. Gotta offer something NOT offered on the 'web'..like service.

Service....what a concept.....especially if it is part of a marketing plan. Or is "the business" plan. The most profitable bike shop around here doesn't have a lot of bikes on the floor, but it sure has lots of clothing, helmets, shoes, saddles, bike racks, and repair facilities. Stuff you like to try on before you buy. Or stuff you need help with. And as bikes (appear anyway) to get more and more complicated.....like E bikes.....it gets harder and harder to get everything online. And not everyone is a pro level mechanic like some of you....and needs service on this more complicated stuff. And he has a great sales team, that seems more interested in solving your need, than just selling you something. So yes.....service is the only way to compete in this Amazon age. To be different than the other guy down the street. For any business really. Because.....Econ 101.....when a goods or service becomes a commodity item....and sells only on price.....and that's the business you are in.....competing against guys with little overhead....your days are numbered.

And BTW....after thinking about this....if I were a local bike shop....I don't even know if I would sell a single derailleur cable to anyone. Maybe I'm not in that business. Maybe I'm in the business of selling service, installing those cables, adjusting the derailleur, and charging some labor. Would probably just tell them they can buy a cable online as cheap as the bike shop can if $29 too much. After all....the LBS has to invest (floor plan) in his inventory, log it into his system, keep track of his inventory, etc.....his direct costs are a good bit more than the cost of the cable. Then margin....then profit. Maybe he's not in the cheap parts business....if he's smart.

[P K]

Just keeps getting harder and harder for the LBS. I would guess we're heading towards two business models in the future. A corporate owned "showroom" that has a connection to their brands website (a place to pick up your online purchase) and then the "little guy" who is a service only shop.

[Peter P.]

Your shop doesn't know how to make a profit.

My original post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek with a side order of truth. ;)

Seriously; The smart shop should hide that bulk box so the customer isn't even aware it exists, as well as the price of those babies. They shouldn't even be offered to the public unless they sell them with rapacious markups.

Or, referencing HTupolev's post, try to up-sell the customer. Higher end bike owners will likely gravitate for the higher end cables if made aware of the features, and most customers will associate quality with price.

Sell the individually packaged parts to the customer; it's no longer "just a cable" when it has all that advertising on the box.

[Ti Designs]

When did bike retail get so complicated, and when did people get so stupid?

[merckx]

When did bike retail get so complicated, and when did people get so stupid?

Internet on both accounts.

[robertbb]

I did the rounds on LBS' for a few years, before concluding that they were all self-taught (and highly arrogant) wankers on low hourly rates who ultimately did not really care about their work (or take care of my bike).

One guy even tried to charge me $15 for "removing and reinstalling cassette" after replacing a broken spoke.... :eek:

I eventually decided I could do just as well if I bought a few tools, and used the internet to find tutorials and documentation.

A few years later I've stripped and built multiple bikes, had a heap of fun in the process, got better results and saved a ton of money.

[gemship]

I did the rounds on LBS' for a few years, before concluding that they were all self-taught (and highly arrogant) wankers on low hourly rates who ultimately did not really care about their work (or take care of my bike).

One guy even tried to charge me $15 for "removing and reinstalling cassette" after replacing a broken spoke.... :eek:

I eventually decided I could do just as well if I bought a few tools, and used the internet to find tutorials and documentation.

A few years later I've stripped and built multiple bikes, had a heap of fun in the process, got better results and saved a ton of money.

Well it sounds great that you took charge with your bicycle repair needs. Honestly it's completely in line with being an enthusiasts both on and off line. However I don't think that 15$ charge to replace a spoke seems so unreasonable as you describe. Honestly what can you get for service for that kinda money anyway in this day in age? You did say it included removing the cassette and I would think that if a spoke is replaced then a mechanic worth their grain of salt would at least check the wheel for true as well as spoke tension. Hey what do I know except to say that I invest three hours of backbreaking labor to earn 400$ earlier this evening and I basically roll up 5$ to 10$ bucks and figuratively throw those bills into the abyss just to leave my house on a daily basis.

[parris]

I don't have a problem paying a bit of a premium to a lbs for something that I need NOW. The price quoted for an inner cable is very expensive and I would pass on purchasing from that shop as well as not stepping foot in the shop again if I had run into the same thing.

One of the things that I have been more aware of in a number of specialty retailers is that the employees in a fair number really don't seem interested in helping customers or potential customers. It's not all shops but there are enough that I've been in where it is noticeable.

Last summer we were visiting family in the Buffalo area and I took some time to check out a few shops. I'd been in some of these places and make a general rule of buying something. One of shops I walked into is very slick and cool. They have some great bicycles and gear. When I walked in they weren't busy and I walked around checking the place out for a fair amount of time. The issue I saw was that there were employees doing various busy work and although I had picked up a few items not once did anyone take time to ask if they could help. That's a customer service fail on a basic level. I put the items back and walked out.


I drove to another shop that was about as busy and was asked a few times if I needed any help by different employees. They weren't pushy or hanging over my shoulder but they "get" it. I ended up buying a pair of winter shoes they had in part due to how I was treated.

Many brick and mortar retailers complain that it's the internet. The internet is an issue to be sure. I will say that a good part of the problem though is a number of those same brick and mortar places have little interest in actually providing a reason for customers to shop at their location.

[peanutgallery]

With it, the unwashed can shop purely on price... and expect everything else

Just an FYI, plumbers don't play that

Internet on both accounts.

[peanutgallery]

$15?

The horror, the horror

I did the rounds on LBS' for a few years, before concluding that they were all self-taught (and highly arrogant) wankers on low hourly rates who ultimately did not really care about their work (or take care of my bike).

One guy even tried to charge me $15 for "removing and reinstalling cassette" after replacing a broken spoke.... :eek:

I eventually decided I could do just as well if I bought a few tools, and used the internet to find tutorials and documentation.

A few years later I've stripped and built multiple bikes, had a heap of fun in the process, got better results and saved a ton of money.

[robertbb]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear :)

He wanted to charge an *extra* $15 for removing and reinstalling the cassette, that is over and above the amount we had discussed and agreed prior for the spoke and his time. He did so as he was running it through the till.... like "oh yeah I had to do this extra unexpected thing called removing the cassette which will cost you an extra $15"

[Velocipede]

As someone IN the bike industry, it's 50% Trek and 50% the LBS.

I went to a local shop on a Sunday due to my needing a tube. I just happened to be out of them. I usually buy them 20 at a time. This dealer sells Trek, Specialized and Cannondale. They are independent but are are very much a Trek Store. They sell mainly Bontrager items. The tube I bought was a basic 700x28-38 Presta Valve tube. I was charged $10. Before tax. Now, every shop in my area, none of them have a professional courtesy discount. Which is not normal in general. But $10 for a tube, that's excessive. Especially for a normal weight tube. In this case, I know how much these tubes cost. They don't need to charge $10. But they do. And getting gouged like this is a reason people don't want to support bike shops. I understand the need to make money and be able to pay bills, but seriously?!

The dealer the OP mentioned should've asked what his buddy needed. Again, poor service and gouging people is just hurting the industry. But telling some people they are wrong is difficult.

[gemship]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear :)

He wanted to charge an *extra* $15 for removing and reinstalling the cassette, that is over and above the amount we had discussed and agreed prior for the spoke and his time. He did so as he was running it through the till.... like "oh yeah I had to do this extra unexpected thing called removing the cassette which will cost you an extra $15"

OK I can see that as it's unexpected and the irony is since you had removed the wheel from the bike I assume you could've removed the cassette too or at least you figure as if that was a needed step to get to the broken spoke replacement.

As an aside my experience is once one spoke goes there will be more to follow and pretty soon the rim too.

[tomato coupe]

Went to get a new freehub body for a bontrager wheelset (which I’m sure uses either dt or novatec internals ) and a set of tubeless valves. $110 for the body, $40 for the valves. No discount, roughly 50% more than other retail comparables.


Don't feel bad. I bought four free hubs this past year for $200 each. Luckily, the fifth was free!

[peanutgallery]

Curious about the professional courtesy bit? What's that mean and how is one supposed to know? $10 is fair IMHO

As someone IN the bike industry, it's 50% Trek and 50% the LBS.

I went to a local shop on a Sunday due to my needing a tube. I just happened to be out of them. I usually buy them 20 at a time. This dealer sells Trek, Specialized and Cannondale. They are independent but are are very much a Trek Store. They sell mainly Bontrager items. The tube I bought was a basic 700x28-38 Presta Valve tube. I was charged $10. Before tax. Now, every shop in my area, none of them have a professional courtesy discount. Which is not normal in general. But $10 for a tube, that's excessive. Especially for a normal weight tube. In this case, I know how much these tubes cost. They don't need to charge $10. But they do. And getting gouged like this is a reason people don't want to support bike shops. I understand the need to make money and be able to pay bills, but seriously?!

The dealer the OP mentioned should've asked what his buddy needed. Again, poor service and gouging people is just hurting the industry. But telling some people they are wrong is difficult.

[adub]

$30 cables, $10 tubes, $15 to R&R a cassette, you'd have to sell a pile of these products and services even with a big mark-up.

Glad I'm not in the retail bike business, cheap, tough customers. This is a big cause of the demise of the LBS- IMO..

[parris]

Peanut the way I took Velocipede's comment was that he's in the business but didn't get a discount for the tube.

When I was working as a mechanic years ago we and other shops would sell small parts and such at cost to the other shop or if needed employee for their personal rides. It didn't happen often but it was there.

There were also times when a specialty tool not normally used would happen. There's one shop that's been in the business forever where I grew up and I can remember calling over to see if they had a jig for mounting an obscure model ski binding. They did and let us borrow it. Things like that.

[prototoast]

Where has been my experience when I've gone into a bike shop and left feeling like I got what I paid for. Sometimes bike shops are generous and would do lots of work for me for a little or no charge, other times they have been the opposite, charging a lot for a little or no work. Even within the same bike shop, I would never know what to expect until the work was complete and I was out the door. Ultimately that was why I learned to do my own work, because I was sick of the roller coaster ride of going to a bike shop.

Well I have no interest in starting my own shop, one idea that had crossed my mind was a bike shop that ran on membership fees. For a flat monthly rate, get most service for free and a discount on parts. This could provide steadier cash flow for the shops, encourage customer loyalty, and leave customers feeling better about themselves, knowing that when they go into the shop, they won't be taken for a ride

[Ti Designs]

Internet on both accounts.

I'm not so sure. The bike industry marches forward, always demanding better equipment than was available last year. Since I switched to 9-speed they have come out with 10-speed, 11-speed and now 12-speed. With each change everything gets more expensive and wears quicker. Think about this: 5/6 speed Campagnolo Nuovo Record was made from 1967 to 1982 - that's 22 full seasons where nothing changed. Now a generation for equipment is 2 years. With each change comes greater demand on supporting parts like cables. I still run 9-speed, I can use $5 cables if I want to, they'll work just fine. Try that same cable with 11-speed and things don't work as well.

If people demand unrealistic performance (from parts that have very little to do with performance) than they should also expect unrealistic prices.

[tomato coupe]

Well I have no interest in starting my own shop, one idea that had crossed my mind was a bike shop that ran on membership fees. For a flat monthly rate, get most service for free and a discount on parts. This could provide steadier cash flow for the shops, encourage customer loyalty, and leave customers feeling better about themselves, knowing that when they go into the shop, they won't be taken for a ride
One of the shops here offers annual service plans. It seems to work ...

[Velocipede]

Curious about the professional courtesy bit? What's that mean and how is one supposed to know? $10 is fair IMHO

Peanut the way I took Velocipede's comment was that he's in the business but didn't get a discount for the tube.

When I was working as a mechanic years ago we and other shops would sell small parts and such at cost to the other shop or if needed employee for their personal rides. It didn't happen often but it was there.

There were also times when a specialty tool not normally used would happen. There's one shop that's been in the business forever where I grew up and I can remember calling over to see if they had a jig for mounting an obscure model ski binding. They did and let us borrow it. Things like that.

As Parris says, it's very common that shops help other shops out. At least it used to be in this area. I know it is in other areas. But the last 10-15 years, dealers here have stopped helping each other out. I even had a shop want something for free PLUS the retail price of the part. I wasn't expecting it for free obviously. But if someone came to me and needed something I would happily help them out! This industry eats it's young. That's why so many people hate going into or dealing with bike shops. Way too many of them don't actually offer customer service.

This same dealer I got the tube from, I ran out of derailleur housing just before NAHBS 2019. I went to them cause they were close and it was a Sunday. I asked them for 4mm SIS/Derailleur housing. I said it multiple times. The guy repeated it. I left with 5mm. They put it in a bag so I never noticed it till I got back to my office. I went back to the store and they pressured me for the receipt. I was just there 20 minutes earlier. I used my credit card. I left the receipt in my office. They said since I didn't have the receipt I was out of luck.

I don't ask for a discount or anything. Again, professional courtesy is appreciated. But to give me the wrong parts and deny me a return/swap even though I was just there, my purchase could be tracked in their POS system and it was their fault, if I were a normal person not in the bike industry, I would never want to come back there.

[peanutgallery]

I understand that part, but how is someone behind the counter supposed to know that you're in the industry? Special facial hair, t shirt, handshake, tattoo? I also work in the industry and we too exchange tools and proprietary parts, etc. But if I'm out of town and need a tube or a container of sealant, I've accepted the fact that I will have to pay retail

Couple years ago I forgot my super warm ski jacket on a ski trip, when the high for the week was like 0 degrees I had to drop like 500 bucks at the lodge for a new one.
Funny thing, that exact jacket was in stock back at the store. I just paid retail and had a great trip, would have froze otherwise

Can't help you with the receipt or the 5mm housing but I wouldn't get too worked up about paying retail for a tube or other small sundries in a pinch. Get an account or develop a relationship with someone who does. Easy stuff

As Parris says, it's very common that shops help other shops out. At least it used to be in this area. I know it is in other areas. But the last 10-15 years, dealers here have stopped helping each other out. I even had a shop want something for free PLUS the retail price of the part. I wasn't expecting it for free obviously. But if someone came to me and needed something I would happily help them out! This industry eats it's young. That's why so many people hate going into or dealing with bike shops. Way too many of them don't actually offer customer service.

This same dealer I got the tube from, I ran out of derailleur housing just before NAHBS 2019. I went to them cause they were close and it was a Sunday. I asked them for 4mm SIS/Derailleur housing. I said it multiple times. The guy repeated it. I left with 5mm. They put it in a bag so I never noticed it till I got back to my office. I went back to the store and they pressured me for the receipt. I was just there 20 minutes earlier. I used my credit card. I left the receipt in my office. They said since I didn't have the receipt I was out of luck.

I don't ask for a discount or anything. Again, professional courtesy is appreciated. But to give me the wrong parts and deny me a return/swap even though I was just there, my purchase could be tracked in their POS system and it was their fault, if I were a normal person not in the bike industry, I would never want to come back there.

[merckx]

I'm not so sure. The bike industry marches forward, always demanding better equipment than was available last year. Since I switched to 9-speed they have come out with 10-speed, 11-speed and now 12-speed. With each change everything gets more expensive and wears quicker. Think about this: 5/6 speed Campagnolo Nuovo Record was made from 1967 to 1982 - that's 22 full seasons where nothing changed. Now a generation for equipment is 2 years. With each change comes greater demand on supporting parts like cables. I still run 9-speed, I can use $5 cables if I want to, they'll work just fine. Try that same cable with 11-speed and things don't work as well.

If people demand unrealistic performance (from parts that have very little to do with performance) than they should also expect unrealistic prices.

I don't disagree with what you have written, and of course I was being flippant with my remark. Another paradigm shift has been the incessant flood of inexpensive consumables into the market. It has changed our expectation about what we are willing to pay for goods. The internet has also certainly exacerbated this expectation. We now scour the net to locate the least expensive cost for the items we want. Then when we saunter into a brick and mortar, we stutter-step when faced with item costs that are not congruent with the same items found on the net.

[oldpotatoe]

Just keeps getting harder and harder for the LBS. I would guess we're heading towards two business models in the future. A corporate owned "showroom" that has a connection to their brands website (a place to pick up your online purchase) and then the "little guy" who is a service only shop.

Sounds like....wait for it, car dealers and car repair places. My biz plan when I started Vecchio's, originally service only...5-6 car dealers in the republic and 35 or so car repair places.
I think there will be a third tho..a 'boutque', the place where you go, get a glass of wine, sit in a living room, with Vids, talk about your next $15,000 BICYCLE..Kinda like walking into the Ferrari dealer or the....Tesla(?) dealer??
One guy even tried to charge me $15 for "removing and reinstalling cassette" after replacing a broken spoke....


$15 total? That's way reasonable..if that's the total..

[Velocipede]

I understand that part, but how is someone behind the counter supposed to know that you're in the industry? Special facial hair, t shirt, handshake, tattoo? I also work in the industry and we too exchange tools and proprietary parts, etc. But if I'm out of town and need a tube or a container of sealant, I've accepted the fact that I will have to pay retail

Couple years ago I forgot my super warm ski jacket on a ski trip, when the high for the week was like 0 degrees I had to drop like 500 bucks at the lodge for a new one.
Funny thing, that exact jacket was in stock back at the store. I just paid retail and had a great trip, would have froze otherwise

Can't help you with the receipt or the 5mm housing but I wouldn't get too worked up about paying retail for a tube or other small sundries in a pinch. Get an account or develop a relationship with someone who does. Easy stuff

My comments are regarding a specific shop I've been to a couple times when desperate and can't wait for something. They know who I am and what I do. I've mentioned they saw me on bike rumor or PEZ or whatever. I've been on video and in pictures over the years for the bikes and shows. So it'm not a stranger. And it's always the same guys there. There are a couple shops in the area who are cool with helping fellow industry people. But it's growing very small in my area at least.

I am not opposed to paying retail when I need to. I've done it many many times. I've been offered EP or Bro Deals with companies and not taken them. And I have accounts with everyone. Again, I would order things and wait if it weren't a critical thing like the housing for a NAHBS bike. That was on a Sunday and I was leaving the next day for Sacramento. I couldn't wait. I thought I had more in the box but nope. My fault.

I'm not worked up about paying retail. My comment about the $10 for a tube was it was expensive for a basic PV tube. I've seen shops charge much less for them. Unless they are lightweight or whatnot, usually tubes aren't $10. That's my comment. About shops gouging consumers and why many consumers go elsewhere.

[Velocipede]

Sounds like....wait for it, car dealers and car repair places. My biz plan when I started Vecchio's, originally service only...5-6 car dealers in the republic and 35 or so car repair places.
I think there will be a third tho..a 'boutque', the place where you go, get a glass of wine, sit in a living room, with Vids, talk about your next $15,000 BICYCLE..Kinda like walking into the Ferrari dealer or the....Tesla(?) dealer??


$15 total? That's way reasonable..if that's the total..

$15 is reasonable. Shops here charge $20. And it's not like we are high rent or anything like Boulder.

[prototoast]

$15 total? That's way reasonable..if that's the total..

I think the issue is that he was quoted a price for fixing a broken spoke, and he reasonably assumed that the price would cover the whole repair. It's a communication issue, more than a pricing issue.

[Velocipede]

I think the issue is that he was quoted a price for fixing a broken spoke, and he reasonably assumed that the price would cover the whole repair. It's a communication issue, more than a pricing issue.

When I had a shop, I would not charge to remove the cassette when fixing a broken spoke. I would just charge for the true and spoke. If the Poster was confused due to the additional cost, I would be a bit also given you need to pull the cassette to replace a spoke. Just like many times you need to pull a disc rotor when replacing one. If the shop wants to charge more, do so. But explain why there are different prices. Things need to be more clearly spelled out now.

[fa63]

I am guilty of having forgotten to include the fee to remove/reinstall cassette when checking in a customer for a spoke replacement. Either me or another employee would inevitably realize the mistake, and call the customer to let them know. If you tell them when they come to the shop to pick up, it is too late.

When I had a shop, I would not charge to remove the cassette when fixing a broken spoke. I would just charge for the true and spoke. If the Poster was confused due to the additional cost, I would be a bit also given you need to pull the cassette to replace a spoke. Just like many times you need to pull a disc rotor when replacing one. If the shop wants to charge more, do so. But explain why there are different prices. Things need to be more clearly spelled out now.

[cash05458]

The never ending LBS vs internet stuff really...I totally get the need to support a LBS...needed and great stuff on lots of levels...I think the problem is when it gets to price gouging in a big way...I do my own wrenching out of necessity but still, when I am "downtown" at our best local place, I tend to see if I can pick something up there to support etc...a few years ago I needed a new Conti 4000...so while downtown I stopped in ...they wanted 95 bucks plus tax for a single tire...so about 100 bucks! ...I could go online and buy three of them for that price...which of course I did. If supporting a local LBS means spending 300 percent more for an item, I am out and would assume most even semi into cycling the way we are would be as well...this ain't a welfare program after all and if you feel totally gouged, of course you aren't feeling so kindly about paying more to keep their business open...I mean, there needs to be a balance between what is good and reasonable via different factors and outright robbery...

[ltwtsculler91]

The never ending LBS vs internet stuff really...I totally get the need to support a LBS...needed and great stuff on lots of levels...I think the problem is when it gets to price gouging in a big way...I do my own wrenching out of necessity but still, when I am "downtown" at our best local place, I tend to see if I can pick something up there to support etc...a few years ago I needed a new Conti 4000...so while downtown I stopped in ...they wanted 95 bucks plus tax for a single tire...so about 100 bucks! ...I could go online and buy three of them for that price...which of course I did. If supporting a local LBS means spending 300 percent more for an item, I am out and would assume most even semi into cycling the way we are would be as well...this ain't a welfare program after all and if you feel totally gouged, of course you aren't feeling so kindly about paying more to keep their business open...I mean, there needs to be a balance between what is good and reasonable via different factors and outright robbery...

The problem on a lot of these items isn't gouging, its the fact that you can buy Conti tires on line for like $1 more than it costs the shop to buy them from distributors...

[Velocipede]

The problem on a lot of these items isn't gouging, its the fact that you can buy Conti tires on line for like $1 more than it costs the shop to buy them from distributors...

This is the real issue. And Conti is horrible for it. They always claim to stop this practice but it never ends. Many stores only sell them by special order. They might have 1 pair in vs in the past they'd have 6 pair in. I hear about it all the time on our industry websites. The same thing goes for Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo.

[cash05458]

not to argue the point...but ok, so I can buy same conti tire for a buck more than what it costs them down at said shop...so lets say 35 bucks...the problem here is they are still selling that same 34 dollar tire for 95 bucks...you get my drift? I might be fine with supporting the good they do by paying , say, 20 bucks more. But 3 times the amount? That's a competitive retail plan? I understand cost and overhead and providing a service that is important to getting folks on bikes and all...but let's be grownups...that plan just isn't going to work with most folks. I can't think of many retail areas at all that something like that would float...

[Velocipede]

not to argue the point...but ok, so I can buy same conti tire for a buck more than what it costs them down at said shop...so lets say 35 bucks...the problem here is they are still selling that same 34 dollar tire for 95 bucks...you get my drift? That's a competitive retail plan? I understand cost and overhead and providing a service that is important to getting folks on bikes and all...but let's be grownups...that plan just isn't going to work with most folks. I can't think of many retail areas at all that something like that would float...

It's not always a competitive retail plan issue. Dealers are being pushed into signing MAP agreements as well as online sales agreements. If they don't they are not allowed to purchase those items. And sadly shops are being policed more than online retailers like Amazon. Also some companies are selling to Amazon but complaining when bike shops do it. I had to deal with that at Lezyne. It's a very wild retail environment now.

[weisan]

https://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/invisible-hand.jpg

[fbhidy]

not to argue the point...but ok, so I can buy same conti tire for a buck more than what it costs them down at said shop...so lets say 35 bucks...the problem here is they are still selling that same 34 dollar tire for 95 bucks...you get my drift? I might be fine with supporting the good they do by paying , say, 20 bucks more. But 3 times the amount? That's a competitive retail plan? I understand cost and overhead and providing a service that is important to getting folks on bikes and all...but let's be grownups...that plan just isn't going to work with most folks. I can't think of many retail areas at all that something like that would float...

I work for a Conti dealer, yes we sell the new 5000s (non-tubeless) for something like $85. We sell the **** out of their tires because we do good work, not because we have the best prices. We support local cycling. We sponsor teams. We run numerous events. Etc. Some folks are willing to pay more to support the people who support the sport of cycling.

Sure we get lots of folks who turn around and walk out muttering 'I can buy xx tire for xxx less on the internet.' Our response is always we're selling them at a margin that keeps our doors open and you're more than welcome to buy them online. But we also sell similar tires from Bontrager and Schwalbe for less than the brand new latest and greatest Continental. We also have the largest selection of bikes in town, likely equal or more than all others inventory combined. Some folks come in and window shop all day long, other folks come in and plan to buy, not just on price, but based on the excellent customer service and selection. It's not gouging when you have to pay living wages to 5 full time employees (3 in service, 2 in sales) plus nearly 10 part timers depending on the season.

I'm just one of those part-timers.

[weisan]

https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/bv0Uw9fAo4ISguia51dUPQ--~B/dz0wO3NtPTE7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en-US/investorplace_417/93013df0c22603aba0ed71240871ec65

[cash05458]

It's not always a competitive retail plan issue. Dealers are being pushed into signing MAP agreements as well as online sales agreements. If they don't they are not allowed to purchase those items. And sadly shops are being policed more than online retailers like Amazon. Also some companies are selling to Amazon but complaining when bike shops do it. I had to deal with that at Lezyne. It's a very wild retail environment now.

No , I get it...but think of other areas...take a pharmacy...I have a local small town pharmacy here in my vermont village...great place and I want to support them. I like these folks etc...anyhow, let's just say my meds cost a 100 bucks there...I love the service etc...but down the road, I can buy those same meds for 33 bucks...of course, most folks in my little village are heading down the road to buy those same things for one third the price. In fact, if they didn't they would be a bit of a dullard. I am not blaming anyone for how this is via the LBS stuff..not at all...god bless 'em for even trying...on a lighter note, the LBS I am talking about has stayed alive for a long time...in fact, they are the place that in the way back machine refused to hire Sachs for a wrench job and got him to move to england to learn to start making frames...so sometimes the invisible hand moves in odd and good ways...

[cash05458]

I work for a Conti dealer, yes we sell the new 5000s (non-tubeless) for something like $85. We sell the **** out of their tires because we do good work, not because we have the best prices. We support local cycling. We sponsor teams. We run numerous events. Etc. Some folks are willing to pay more to support the people who support the sport of cycling.

Sure we get lots of folks who turn around and walk out muttering 'I can buy xx tire for xxx less on the internet.' Our response is always we're selling them at a margin that keeps our doors open and you're more than welcome to buy them online. But we also sell similar tires from Bontrager and Schwalbe for less than the brand new latest and greatest Continental. We also have the largest selection of bikes in town, likely equal or more than all others inventory combined. Some folks come in and window shop all day long, other folks come in and plan to buy, not just on price, but based on the excellent customer service and selection. It's not gouging when you have to pay living wages to 5 full time employees (3 in service, 2 in sales) plus nearly 10 part timers depending on the season.

I'm just one of those part-timers.

Hey, glad to hear it!

[Gummee]

I am guilty of having forgotten to include the fee to remove/reinstall cassette when checking in a customer for a spoke replacement. Either me or another employee would inevitably realize the mistake, and call the customer to let them know. If you tell them when they come to the shop to pick up, it is too late.

This.

Stuff takes time. Time = $$

Yeah, there are things that fly under the radar when you're quoting repairs because you're right there with the customer and they're asking questions about something else, someone's on the phone, another customer is waiting to get rung up, etc.

Even in the van, there's things I miss the 1st time around without all the extra hoopla from a shop environment. If it's small enough, I'll eat it, but I try to be thorough up front because I HATE making those 'I didn't see X and it'll be more $$' phone calls.

AFA the $30 cable thing: There's lots of different levels of cable. The good stuff works better and typically lasts longer than the cheap stuff. For 'under the bar tape' cable and housing setups, cheap cables work OK, but the Jagwire Pro/Elite Polished or the Optislick cables work much better.

M

[C40_guy]

Just keeps getting harder and harder for the LBS. I would guess we're heading towards two business models in the future. A corporate owned "showroom" that has a connection to their brands website (a place to pick up your online purchase) and then the "little guy" who is a service only shop.

The challenge for the "little guy" is that we live in an increasingly disposable society. People are less and less accustomed to getting something adjusted, fixed, overhauled, etc. If it doesn't work, leave it on the curb for the trash collector and go get (or order) another one.

[C40_guy]

I drove to another shop that was about as busy and was asked a few times if I needed any help by different employees. They weren't pushy or hanging over my shoulder but they "get" it. I ended up buying a pair of winter shoes they had in part due to how I was treated.



If you are looking for expertise on winter gear, Buffalo is a good place to find some!

[C40_guy]

Internet on both accounts.

Pricing/margin pressure on LBS happened long before the Internet. Multi-location or chain stores, bike superstores started popping up in the late '80s/early '90s and started to put a lot of pricing pressure on the independents.

My uncle and cousin started/ran The Wall bike shop in Manayunk (PA) during this time, and most of their profit came from accessories, clothing and service.

Today Amazon and the many bike etailers have taken over the first two categories.

[unterhausen]

It's the same as it ever was. In the '70s, people would come in and check out parts, waste a lot of time and then say they can get it cheaper on Nashbar or some other online store. In fact, my mother lost her discount at the bike shop I worked at that way, I failed to educate her properly.

I'm loyal to my LBS. Can't say I blame anyone for not feeling the same way, but they definitely reward loyalty and are very good.

[cash05458]

It's the same as it ever was. In the '70s, people would come in and check out parts, waste a lot of time and then say they can get it cheaper on Nashbar or some other online store. In fact, my mother lost her discount at the bike shop I worked at that way, I failed to educate her properly.

I'm loyal to my LBS. Can't say I blame anyone for not feeling the same way, but they definitely reward loyalty and are very good.

good post...don't get me wrong...I have no problems with a great local LBS...nor paying more...the good ones I would think have figured out a balance via these things and even then, some will fall and go under ...it's 2020 after all and so much is going by the wayside...good and small book stores...music shops...whatever...great local butcher...I mean, just name it via these things...the list is endless...

[Elefantino]

Things you can't get from the internet are what will save the bike store but whether that pays the bills is another matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HenryA]

There are three basic parts to retailing:

1. Ability to communicate with other people.
2. Mastery of elementary school level arithmetic.
3. Discipline to consistently execute the first two skills over a long period of time.

After that it gets real complicated, but you have to have those three. Having participated variously as an employee, owner, operator, consultant, advisor, lawyer for going on 40 years, I can tell you that a lack of anyone of those three things is fatal.

The cable subject of the OP and the $15.00 for cassette removal are good examples of violations of the basics.

[Gummee]

The cable subject of the OP and the $15.00 for cassette removal are good examples of violations of the basics.
We keep going back to the $30 cable, so I'll comment.

The failure was in not selling the sizzle of that $30 cable: Yeah, you could get the basic cable and it'll work OK... Your braking's going to feel a little crunchy because you can feel the strands of the cable rubbing in the housing.

You can even get this even pricier, slicker cable and it'll work better and you won't feel the cable rub. Course, you'll be coming back in a year to get another one...

Now, since you're running Dura Ace and want the best braking you can get, this here $30 cable is so slick that it'll darn near brake for you, it'll last longer so you save $ over time too. Combine that with some compressionless housing for $X/foot and you'll have braking so good, it'll darn near take your face off.

If you don't sell the features and benefits and go thru the good-better-best steps, it'll look like you're trying to gouge someone. ...as we have in this here thread.

M

[cash05458]

"If you don't sell the features and benefits and go thru the good-better-best steps, it'll look like you're trying to gouge someone. ...as we have in this here thread."

sorry, not following this logic...might you explain more abit? Bit slow today, but did I miss something here?

[dave thompson]

We keep going back to the $30 cable, so I'll comment.

The failure was in not selling the sizzle of that $30 cable: Yeah, you could get the basic cable and it'll work OK... Your braking's going to feel a little crunchy because you can feel the strands of the cable rubbing in the housing.

You can even get this even pricier, slicker cable and it'll work better and you won't feel the cable rub. Course, you'll be coming back in a year to get another one...

Now, since you're running Dura Ace and want the best braking you can get, this here $30 cable is so slick that it'll darn near brake for you, it'll last longer so you save $ over time too. Combine that with some compressionless housing for $X/foot and you'll have braking so good, it'll darn near take your face off.

If you don't sell the features and benefits and go thru the good-better-best steps, it'll look like you're trying to gouge someone. ...as we have in this here thread.

M

Dale Carnegie said it: “Sell the sizzle, not the steak.”

[mtechnica]

That would be interesting to start a bike shop where all of the goods are sourced online then sold at cost (including shipping) then customers are given an invoice for services detailing the work done and time spent, and the customer gets to decide how much they should pay for the work that was done. Would be interesting to see how long you’d be in business.

[Gummee]

"If you don't sell the features and benefits and go thru the good-better-best steps, it'll look like you're trying to gouge someone. ...as we have in this here thread."

sorry, not following this logic...might you explain more abit? Bit slow today, but did I miss something here?

the OP (or close thereabouts) said something about a $30 brake cable being a ripoff by an LBS when you or I can get a $3/$6/$whatever cables at other shops...

I was showing why someone would buy a $30 cable and why it isn't necessarily a ripoff.

I just installed new Optislick inner cables and SP41 housing on one of my CX bikes. Yeah, I probably *could* have made a pair of Jagwire cables and cheap housing work, but the Optislicks and SP41 work better.

Didn't buy the D/A version of the coated cables, but did get the green coated version.

Stay away from the brown coated stuff. They shed their coatings and things get bound up.

Clear as mud?

M

[robertbb]

When I had a shop, I would not charge to remove the cassette when fixing a broken spoke. I would just charge for the true and spoke. If the Poster was confused due to the additional cost, I would be a bit also given you need to pull the cassette to replace a spoke. Just like many times you need to pull a disc rotor when replacing one. If the shop wants to charge more, do so. But explain why there are different prices. Things need to be more clearly spelled out now.

I am guilty of having forgotten to include the fee to remove/reinstall cassette when checking in a customer for a spoke replacement. Either me or another employee would inevitably realize the mistake, and call the customer to let them know. If you tell them when they come to the shop to pick up, it is too late.


This.

Stuff takes time. Time = $$

Yeah, there are things that fly under the radar when you're quoting repairs because you're right there with the customer and they're asking questions about something else, someone's on the phone, another customer is waiting to get rung up, etc.

Even in the van, there's things I miss the 1st time around without all the extra hoopla from a shop environment. If it's small enough, I'll eat it, but I try to be thorough up front because I HATE making those 'I didn't see X and it'll be more $$' phone calls.

AFA the $30 cable thing: There's lots of different levels of cable. The good stuff works better and typically lasts longer than the cheap stuff. For 'under the bar tape' cable and housing setups, cheap cables work OK, but the Jagwire Pro/Elite Polished or the Optislick cables work much better.

M

Whoa, seriously, some of you guys are saying removal and reinstallation of a cassette should be added on top of (or itemized separately to) the labour of installing the new spoke itself and truing the wheel? 15 seconds total extra work to take the cogs off and maybe 30 seconds to put it back on...

OK... :eek:

Anyway, what this particular LBS was doing was simply trying to milk someone who he perceived as being ignorant for an extra $15 at the till. This shop an this guy in particular is known for it.

There was no error or miscommunication - it was blatant opportunism pure and simple.

[Ralph]

The most successful salesmen or women, always do features and benefits selling. In any field. Explain the features, and then sell that as a benefit. You have to help the customer connect the two. Do not assume they will do it themselves by only mention a feature, or a benefit. Help them connect the dots. Good sales people do that. It makes a big difference. Good selling is taught.

[cash05458]

The most successful salesmen or women, always do features and benefits selling. In any field. Explain the features, and then sell that as a benefit. You have to help the customer connect the two. Do not assume they will do it themselves by only mention a feature, or a benefit. Help them connect the dots. Good sales people do that. It makes a big difference. Good selling is taught.

sure they do...at 300 percent! but of course...it's why great bike shops are doing so damn well ...making a fortune!

[VC Slim]

Hate to hear Nelo's (Austin) closed. When I lived in town used to go to the old location on Anderson Lane. Bought a few things there and Nelo always treated me like I had spent thousands which I hadn't. Would have free beer during watch parties for the TDF. He moved to the new location when Performance Bike opened their store next door. Yeah his prices were kind of steep but he had the BEST bikes in Austin. Nice guy who knew how to satisfy his customers.

I too am sadden by the closure of Nelo's Pro Cycles. He got most of my service business when Freewheeling Bicycles closed and then all when Austin Bikes closed up. Have known Nelo Breda since his days at EuroSport (34th St and then 24th St) in the mid 1980's and on to his various locations in north Austin. I wish him all the best in his retirement (he hinted at opening a bike touring business in Columbia).

As to the OP's point of being gouged, I have felt that way many times and took my business elsewhere when warranted. But for those places that actively and continuously supported the local cycling community, like Freewheeling, Austin Bikes and Nelo's, to me it was my way of supporting their efforts even if it came down to paying a premium (aka Super Retail) as I've been fortunate enough over the years to afford it.

[Hellgate]

He mentioned the bike touring idea to me a few years ago. I think it's brilliant.

It's sad to see him close. While I've not known him since the '80's, I've done business with him when he was at the first Mesa location with Jeremiah. I bought Guru's, Ridley's, and special order bikes for the kids. When he closed my 6YO asked, "Daddy, where will I get ice cream before I go to gymnastics?" He's a great guy and I never quibbled over prices. I paid the price knowing he was there for me and always had solid advise. The internet doesn't provide that.

[CNY rider]

The most successful salesmen or women, always do features and benefits selling. In any field. Explain the features, and then sell that as a benefit. You have to help the customer connect the two. Do not assume they will do it themselves by only mention a feature, or a benefit. Help them connect the dots. Good sales people do that. It makes a big difference. Good selling is taught.

Right on.
The best salesman I have worked with in years was at Magnolia Home Theatre in Albany.
We had an ancient TV, knew we wanted to replace it with something nice and we wanted good sound to go with it.
I walked in with only a vague idea how the system should/would look.
He took us through it step by step. We had walked in knowing we wanted 1 of 2 OLED TV models. The rest was all up in the air. He helped us select the TV, then went through component by component and showed us how each one would enhance the total viewing experience, based around that TV. And how chosen upgrades would enhance the system.
We definitely spent more than originally planned. And left with a great system, and a positive feeling about the whole experience, even though we spent more than we thought we would!

So to me, that's the definition of a good salesman. And we still go seek him out for other electronics needs when they come up or when friends need a resource.

[Seramount]

I too am sadden by the closure of Nelo's Pro Cycles. He got most of my service business when Freewheeling Bicycles closed and then all when Austin Bikes closed up. Have known Nelo Breda since his days at EuroSport (34th St and then 24th St) in the mid 1980's and on to his various locations in north Austin).

yeah, when I moved to AUS in '87 I used to hang out at EuroSport and drool over some of the exotic inventory Nelo had...over the years, gave him a fair amount of business at the Anderson Ln and Mesa stores.

over the last few years, it became somewhat obvious that he was not trying to cultivate devoted customers which left a bad taste.

the best thing about his shop was that if you needed a damage estimate for an insurance claim, he would provide a nice figure.

[Gummee]

Right on.
The best salesman I have worked with in years was at Magnolia Home Theatre in Albany.
We had an ancient TV, knew we wanted to replace it with something nice and we wanted good sound to go with it.
I walked in with only a vague idea how the system should/would look.
He took us through it step by step. We had walked in knowing we wanted 1 of 2 OLED TV models. The rest was all up in the air. He helped us select the TV, then went through component by component and showed us how each one would enhance the total viewing experience, based around that TV. And how chosen upgrades would enhance the system.
We definitely spent more than originally planned. And left with a great system, and a positive feeling about the whole experience, even though we spent more than we thought we would!

So to me, that's the definition of a good salesman. And we still go seek him out for other electronics needs when they come up or when friends need a resource.

...or you could have been like the OP and left after seeing the $10k pair of speakers in 'the special room' thinking 'Man! $10k speakers! What a ripoff! I can get $100 speakers on Amazon!'

Having listened to both, the $10k pair of speakers meant I could hear where that guitarist was standing on the sound stage, where the vocalist was just off center to the left, where that drum was in the set, etc. ...but yeah, they're a ripoff

M
M

[Clancy]

the OP (or close thereabouts) said something about a $30 brake cable being a ripoff by an LBS when you or I can get a $3/$6/$whatever cables at other shops...

I was showing why someone would buy a $30 cable and why it isn't necessarily a ripoff.

M

No justification. A greedy grab at profit by attempting to up sale what the shop owner assumed was an uneducated customer.

There is absolutely no way to try and justify a brake cable at $29.95. I want to be very clear on this. There were no clarifying questions to ask what the intended application or level of bike. Instead the owner saw my friend, a stereotypical old retired guy, and assumed he wouldn’t know the difference.

On my uber expensive custom Ti bike, $3 Jagwire cables work just fine. But more to the point, the average cyclist most certainly does not need a Pro Level $30 cable.

And as far as the discussion of adding $15 to the overall cost of replacing a spoke for removing a cassette? Absolutely idiotic beyond any good business sense. I’ve removed/installed hundreds of cassettes and to charge $15 is absurd. Any shop knows when replacing a spoke, the tire, tube, rim strip, cassette, and rotor have to be removed and the price for the job of replacing a spoke should take all that into account.

There is no argument - small businesses of every type are fighting tremendous headwinds in today’s turbulent retail environment. But these are two examples of business owners who have yet developed a sound and successful business philosophy or approach.

But far more important in my mind is the discussion of what these examples do overall to the general public’s view of cycling. If we want to see cycling grow and become far more universal as it has in so many other countries, stories like these are not going to get us there. When I was running a struggling small business, my mentor told me one negative undoes twenty positives.

A new bike shop in a small town charging $30 FOR A SINGLE BRAKE CABLE!?!

No, no justification for that money grab.

[quickfeet]

No offense but maybe a $3 cable works fine for you. I am pretty sure I can be the judge of what I want to spend my money on. Slick cables are nice; they shift way better for longer.

[prototoast]

Slick cables are nice; they shift way better for longer.

And for braking?

[ltwtsculler91]

No offense but maybe a $3 cable works fine for you. I am pretty sure I can be the judge of what I want to spend my money on. Slick cables are nice; they shift way better for longer.

This times 10.
I definitely notice the difference on my bikes when using a slick cable versus standard Jagwire we use.
And that's on a fleet of bikes with SRAM Red which shifts great no matter what.

As others have been trying to say, it's about features and benefits. The shop the OP went into did a terrible job of selling the cable and educating the customer. He may have walked out of there with a standard $10 cable if the shop guy had actually begun a discussion around how it was going to be used and what he was looking for.

[quickfeet]

And for braking?

Same. I use the exact cable set complained about here. I bought the pro shift and brake sets. They come with tons of housing, and black aluminum bits.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-tools-maintenance/bike-cables-housing/bontrager-pro-brake-cable-housing-set/p/24735/?gclid=CjwKCAiAvonyBRB7EiwAadauqfDl00SM3TjvqUl108s sygqVcQtkb4kE0Oh1jmzjQb7_G3EjYIfBYRoCgbQQAvD_BwE

[Plum Hill]

One guy even tried to charge me $15 for "removing and reinstalling cassette" after replacing a broken spoke.... :eek:



By that shop’s rationale, I should have been charged extra for removing and reinstalling the wheels on my truck when I had a brake job done.
Or the tranny shop should have charged for removing and reinstalling the driveshaft when the clutch was replaced.
As I stated in another thread about plumbing, the new scheme is to price every single item.

[Gummee]

No justification. A greedy grab at profit by attempting to up sale what the shop owner assumed was an uneducated customer.

There is absolutely no way to try and justify a brake cable at $29.95. I want to be very clear on this. There were no clarifying questions to ask what the intended application or level of bike. Instead the owner saw my friend, a stereotypical old retired guy, and assumed he wouldn’t know the difference.

On my uber expensive custom Ti bike, $3 Jagwire cables work just fine. But more to the point, the average cyclist most certainly does not need a Pro Level $30 cable.

And as far as the discussion of adding $15 to the overall cost of replacing a spoke for removing a cassette? Absolutely idiotic beyond any good business sense. I’ve removed/installed hundreds of cassettes and to charge $15 is absurd. Any shop knows when replacing a spoke, the tire, tube, rim strip, cassette, and rotor have to be removed and the price for the job of replacing a spoke should take all that into account.

There is no argument - small businesses of every type are fighting tremendous headwinds in today’s turbulent retail environment. But these are two examples of business owners who have yet developed a sound and successful business philosophy or approach.

But far more important in my mind is the discussion of what these examples do overall to the general public’s view of cycling. If we want to see cycling grow and become far more universal as it has in so many other countries, stories like these are not going to get us there. When I was running a struggling small business, my mentor told me one negative undoes twenty positives.

A new bike shop in a small town charging $30 FOR A SINGLE BRAKE CABLE!?!

No, no justification for that money grab.

Sounds like you probably should do all your own work and buy everything on Aliexpress or Amazon.

...I just hope you don't have an emergency and need an LBSs' knowledge and expertise.

M

[fa63]

If it is a drive-side spoke, you have to remove cassette. If not, no need. I suppose you could charge a different "all-inclusive" price for spoke replacement depending on whether or not it is a DS or NDS spoke. Or you can charge for cassette removal/replacement separately.

All that matters is that it is communicated to the customer properly. And sometimes shop employees f*** up and forget; they are humans too.

By that shop’s rationale, I should have been charged extra for removing and reinstalling the wheels on my truck when I had a brake job done.
Or the tranny shop should have charged for removing and reinstalling the driveshaft when the clutch was replaced.
As I stated in another thread about plumbing, the new scheme is to price every single item.

[AngryScientist]

thank god i dont work retail.

[Gummee]

thank god i dont work retail.

*Most* people that walk into the shop are great. Positive, doing stuff they like to do, and are generally pleasant.

...but... there are the occasional jackholes that you 'get' to deal with.

M

[pdonk]

I had a different experience recently.

I knew I wanted a more expensive / higher quality part, assumed shop would have a higher quality part, when they said the $15 part is good enough and all that they carry they insulted me for being one of those "monied" guys.

Meanwhile, I was planning on buying parts for my spring tune ups from them (chains, cables, housing, bar tape etc) but now I am rethinking it.

[Velocipede]

Whoa, seriously, some of you guys are saying removal and reinstallation of a cassette should be added on top of (or itemized separately to) the labour of installing the new spoke itself and truing the wheel? 15 seconds total extra work to take the cogs off and maybe 30 seconds to put it back on...

OK... :eek:

Anyway, what this particular LBS was doing was simply trying to milk someone who he perceived as being ignorant for an extra $15 at the till. This shop an this guy in particular is known for it.

There was no error or miscommunication - it was blatant opportunism pure and simple.

If you reread what I wrote, I don't/wouldn't have. You need to pull the cassette anyways when replacing a spoke so I wouldn't have charged for a cassette removal. I am not opposed to a shop charging A BIT more for a wheel truing if they want to charge for pulling the cassette or rotor. It's part of the job. But if a true is say $30, I would maybe make it $38 or $40 for a rear(cassette and rotor pull) and maybe $35 for a front(only the rotor). But to make it $30 PLUS $15 for a cassette, I understand the need to make money, but sometimes it's gouging.

My opinions of course.

[peanutgallery]

Would love to know what you do for a living

PS: I want a coupon

No justification. A greedy grab at profit by attempting to up sale what the shop owner assumed was an uneducated customer.

There is absolutely no way to try and justify a brake cable at $29.95. I want to be very clear on this. There were no clarifying questions to ask what the intended application or level of bike. Instead the owner saw my friend, a stereotypical old retired guy, and assumed he wouldn’t know the difference.

On my uber expensive custom Ti bike, $3 Jagwire cables work just fine. But more to the point, the average cyclist most certainly does not need a Pro Level $30 cable.

And as far as the discussion of adding $15 to the overall cost of replacing a spoke for removing a cassette? Absolutely idiotic beyond any good business sense. I’ve removed/installed hundreds of cassettes and to charge $15 is absurd. Any shop knows when replacing a spoke, the tire, tube, rim strip, cassette, and rotor have to be removed and the price for the job of replacing a spoke should take all that into account.

There is no argument - small businesses of every type are fighting tremendous headwinds in today’s turbulent retail environment. But these are two examples of business owners who have yet developed a sound and successful business philosophy or approach.

But far more important in my mind is the discussion of what these examples do overall to the general public’s view of cycling. If we want to see cycling grow and become far more universal as it has in so many other countries, stories like these are not going to get us there. When I was running a struggling small business, my mentor told me one negative undoes twenty positives.

A new bike shop in a small town charging $30 FOR A SINGLE BRAKE CABLE!?!

No, no justification for that money grab.

[Mark McM]

I'm still waiting for the explanation of while a shop would only offer a customer a $29.95 brake cable.

Granted, more expensive cables may have additional features that can justify their cost to some users. But the average bike rider isn't willing to pay a premium for these features, and would prefer a less expensive option. Why wasn't a less expensive option offered to this customer?

Did the customer ask for the best cable the shop had, and then balk at the price? Or did the customer just ask for a simple and plain brake cable, and was only offered a high price premium cable?

[notsew]

I don't get the wringing of hands about this stuff. If a bike shop wants to commit suicide by price gouging or customer alienation, **** 'em. Who cares? All y'all who think that bike shops should exist outside of rational economic forces...I'm sorry for your loss, I guess?

[colker]

I'm still waiting for the explanation of while a shop would only offer a customer a $29.95 brake cable.

Granted, more expensive cables may have additional features that can justify their cost to some users. But the average bike rider isn't willing to pay a premium for these features, and would prefer a less expensive option. Why wasn't a less expensive option offered to this customer?

Did the customer ask for the best cable the shop had, and then balk at the price? Or did the customer just ask for a simple and plain brake cable, and was only offered a high price premium cable?

That´s my thinking here as well.

[ntb1001]

How about $89.00 handlebar tape, plus labour to install!

That’s the cost at my LBS Trek dealer for Supacaz tape.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tony]

How about $89.00 handlebar tape, plus labour to install!

That’s the cost at my LBS Trek dealer for Supacaz tape.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I find that tape between $20 and $45 everywhere including the Trek Store?
https://www.trekbikestore.com/product-list/parts-1051/handlebar-grips-tape-1070/tape-1072/

FWIW It takes time to install bar tape correctly.

[giordana93]

Whoa, seriously, some of you guys are saying removal and reinstallation of a cassette should be added on top of (or itemized separately to) the labour of installing the new spoke itself and truing the wheel? 15 seconds total extra work to take the cogs off and maybe 30 seconds to put it back on...

OK... :eek:

Anyway, what this particular LBS was doing was simply trying to milk someone who he perceived as being ignorant for an extra $15 at the till. This shop an this guy in particular is known for it.

There was no error or miscommunication - it was blatant opportunism pure and simple.

if you can remove and replace a cassette in 45 seconds, maybe you should open a shop. does that operation require a tool? wait, yes it does. 2 tools in fact. those aren't free. neither is the rent in the room where all of this is happening. or electricity to climatize and light the room. what about the shop employee? he's a volunteer or unpaid intern, right? do you guys carry insurance? of course, some dip**** tried to sue us last year because his 700x23c tire rolled off the rim when he failed to inflate it for an entire month after we installed it. cost us $600 in legal fees just to have the letter drawn up.

long story short: replacing a drive side spoke takes longer and requires specialized tools to complete. name one industry where $15 labor will get you that. extra cost needs to be disclosed, and maybe $10 is more reasonable but I don't recall reading if this was a high rent area or not. sometimes a $15 derailleur adjust is a 15 second barrel turn, and sometimes its high/low/b tension screws plus lubing the housing loop.

if this guy is known for ripping people off, fine, but tools, time, and know-how aren't free in any skilled labor setting

[bikinchris]

"Any shop knows when replacing a spoke, the tire, tube, rim strip, cassette, and rotor have to be removed and the price for the job of replacing a spoke should take all that into account."

No, you don't always have to do all of that. Sometimes, you can even keep the old nipple and not even deflate the tire. Charging only one price that includes taking off a non existant rotor, cassette (on a front wheel) etc. IS gouging the majority of your customers.
As for the cost of labor, unless you know how much the overhead is on that shop, you don't know how much labor needs to be to keep the doors open.

You guys seem to enjoy piling on the local bike shop when most of you don't know what it takes to run onr. But carry on. Geez.

[peanutgallery]

Moral of the story, here

If you're going to stroll into a bike shop, bring your wallet. In return you get service, product and knowledge. If you don't need any of those things...or you forgot your wallet, don't go in the store. In return you could get galvanized cables from Amazon and the fleeting hope that Jeff Bezos' can help you fix your bike. There's no Amazon Prime for bike repair and service. Just because riding is your hobby or passion doesn't mean you're a charity case. Knowledge and capability to do the work is key. Otherwise, you're going to have to pay someone

Just like buying a boat, house, car, mower... factor in the maintenance. If you are incapable of doing it, you'll have to hire it out. Even if you do your own service, you still have to buy parts

Lots of handwringing over 30 bucks. As we all learned the other week, what happens when you have to call a plumber? You'll wish the option was merely a $30 brake cable

[unterhausen]

there has to be a story to the $30 cable. I didn't know anything like that existed. I have never wanted a better brake cable. Maybe derailleur cable. I assume it's a result of a lot of people involved that know nothing about bikes. I also assume they all drive a mercedes and think that any little part should cost $30, like valve caps

[oldpotatoe]

I'm still waiting for the explanation of while a shop would only offer a customer a $29.95 brake cable.

Granted, more expensive cables may have additional features that can justify their cost to some users. But the average bike rider isn't willing to pay a premium for these features, and would prefer a less expensive option. Why wasn't a less expensive option offered to this customer?

Did the customer ask for the best cable the shop had, and then balk at the price? Or did the customer just ask for a simple and plain brake cable, and was only offered a high price premium cable?

Wonder if it's TREK driven, since the guy is a TREK dealer..

For Clancy who calls the cable gig 'money grabbing'..the $30 brake cable probably cost the guy $20 or so........so 'about 35% margin..

[oldpotatoe]

if you can remove and replace a cassette in 45 seconds, maybe you should open a shop. does that operation require a tool? wait, yes it does. 2 tools in fact. those aren't free. neither is the rent in the room where all of this is happening. or electricity to climatize and light the room. what about the shop employee? he's a volunteer or unpaid intern, right? do you guys carry insurance? of course, some dip**** tried to sue us last year because his 700x23c tire rolled off the rim when he failed to inflate it for an entire month after we installed it. cost us $600 in legal fees just to have the letter drawn up.

long story short: replacing a drive side spoke takes longer and requires specialized tools to complete. name one industry where $15 labor will get you that. extra cost needs to be disclosed, and maybe $10 is more reasonable but I don't recall reading if this was a high rent area or not. sometimes a $15 derailleur adjust is a 15 second barrel turn, and sometimes its high/low/b tension screws plus lubing the housing loop.

if this guy is known for ripping people off, fine, but tools, time, and know-how aren't free in any skilled labor setting

Reality from another person in the bike shop 'trenches'..good post.

[Velocipede]

Wonder if it's TREK driven, since the guy is a TREK dealer..

For Clancy who calls the cable gig 'money grabbing'..the $30 brake cable probably cost the guy $20 or so........so 'about 35% margin..

It's absolutely TREK driven. They are pushing like mad. I work with some dealers who sell Bontrager pieces but are not a TREK dealer. He used to manage the local TREK store before moving on to open his own. He told me the attitude and prices have changed since jumping to his own place. He feels taken advantage of. But he likes some of their product(saddles mainly) so he will keep selling stuff. He sells Specialized pieces also but no S Bikes. Again, mainly saddles.

I asked him about the price of the cable kit. He pays $19.95. When he was a Trek Store it was $14.95

[C40_guy]

...There's no Amazon Prime for bike repair and service. ...

Are you sure? My son ordered "apartment cleaning" from Amazon!

[Black Dog]

It's absolutely TREK driven. They are pushing like mad. I work with some dealers who sell Bontrager pieces but are not a TREK dealer. He used to manage the local TREK store before moving on to open his own. He told me the attitude and prices have changed since jumping to his own place. He feels taken advantage of. But he likes some of their product(saddles mainly) so he will keep selling stuff. He sells Specialized pieces also but no S Bikes. Again, mainly saddles.

I asked him about the price of the cable kit. He pays $19.95. When he was a Trek Store it was $14.95

Is that for a cable kit? The OP was saying that the $30 was for one brake cable, no housing.

[Velocipede]

Is that for a cable kit? The OP was saying that the $30 was for one brake cable, no housing.

They sell a housing AND cable kit with ferrules and crimps. My comment and I should've been more clear was just the inner wire. BUT, it comes with the crimps! Which is why I called it a kit.

[Mark McM]

Wonder if it's TREK driven, since the guy is a TREK dealer..

That can't be the whole story. As I related earlier, my local Trek dealer doesn't even stock the $29.95 Bontrager brake cable - they only carry the $19.95 and $5.95 Bontrager brake cables. Had the customer in the OP's story been offered the $5.95 brake cable (still a Trek product), this thread probably never would have been started.

[oldpotatoe]

That can't be the whole story. As I related earlier, my local Trek dealer doesn't even stock the $29.95 Bontrager brake cable - they only carry the $19.95 and $5.95 Bontrager brake cables. Had the customer in the OP's story been offered the $5.95 brake cable (still a Trek product), this thread probably never would have been started.

My friend walked into a LBS that just opened in the small town of Boerne, Texas, a small town on the northside of San Antonio

Might have something to do with it..particularly as a new TREK store..TREK(and Spec-Ed) have very heavy hands when it comes to their stores.

[Clancy]

Moral of the story, here

If you're going to stroll into a bike shop, bring your wallet. In return you get service, product and knowledge. If you don't need any of those things...or you forgot your wallet, don't go in the store. In return you could get galvanized cables from Amazon and the fleeting hope that Jeff Bezos' can help you fix your bike. There's no Amazon Prime for bike repair and service. Just because riding is your hobby or passion doesn't mean you're a charity case. Knowledge and capability to do the work is key. Otherwise, you're going to have to pay someone

Just like buying a boat, house, car, mower... factor in the maintenance. If you are incapable of doing it, you'll have to hire it out. Even if you do your own service, you still have to buy parts

Lots of handwringing over 30 bucks. As we all learned the other week, what happens when you have to call a plumber? You'll wish the option was merely a $30 brake cable

One of the most absurd comments I’ve ever read on this forum. Let’s see if I can paraphrase....

When you walk into a bike shop, bring your wallet and be willing to be taken advantage of.

Let me repeat the entire story as clear as possible.

An 80 year old man walks into a bike shop and asked for one brake cable.
No housing, no other requirements. Just one single brake cable.
The employee who he assumed was either the owner or manager hands him a single (packaged) brake cable and says that’s $29.95 plus tax. No clarifying questions.

The 80 year old looks to be a stereotypical old, disheveled, retired guy. Does not look like anything else...ex-pro, avid cyclist, whatever. He says no thanks and walks out. He could have just as easily been a grandad trying to fix a grandkids bike or simply trying to fix a neighborhood cruiser.

In what world is this not trying to up-sale or take advantage of a customer?

I just retired from a bike shop in San Antonio. This type of transaction happened daily. After asking the customer road or mountain bike, I’d pull a Jagwire cable (cost $1.07 each) and hand it to the customer and charge $3. I’d always give them for free w/o their asking 2-3 crimps to go with the cable.

There’s no more to this story. The manager/owner/employee (whatever his title) either didn’t know what he was doing or trying to pass off a ridiculously priced item that wasn’t any where what the customer needed or wanted.

I always operated with a few simple beliefs.

Work on every bike as if it’s my own.
Listen to what the customer is (or is not) saying.
Ask clarifying questions and fully explain.
Always try to make the customer’s experience as positive as possible.
When working on a bike, to get the bike to its best performance as inexpensive as possible to the customer.

This sounds like a lot but it absolutely isn’t. Using the example of someone coming in for a single cable, all those could be put into practice in a 3-4 minute exchange.

I really don’t see how any of that is difficult or why there’s any debate.

The story of my friend is a story of extremely poor customer service.

And! I gave away valve caps

[giordana93]

One of the most absurd comments I’ve ever read on this forum. Let’s see if I can paraphrase....

When you walk into a bike shop, bring your wallet and be willing to be taken advantage of.

Let me repeat the entire story as clear as possible.

An 80 year old man walks into a bike shop and asked for one brake cable.
No housing, no other requirements. Just one single brake cable.
The employee who he assumed was either the owner or manager hands him a single (packaged) brake cable and says that’s $29.95 plus tax. No clarifying questions.

The 80 year old looks to be a stereotypical old, disheveled, retired guy. Does not look like anything else...ex-pro, avid cyclist, whatever. He says no thanks and walks out. He could have just as easily been a grandad trying to fix a grandkids bike or simply trying to fix a neighborhood cruiser.

In what world is this not trying to up-sale or take advantage of a customer?

I just retired from a bike shop in San Antonio. This type of transaction happened daily. After asking the customer road or mountain bike, I’d pull a Jagwire cable (cost $1.07 each) and hand it to the customer and charge $3. I’d always give them for free w/o their asking 2-3 crimps to go with the cable.

There’s no more to this story. The manager/owner/employee (whatever his title) either didn’t know what he was doing or trying to pass off a ridiculously priced item that wasn’t any where what the customer needed or wanted.

I always operated with a few simple beliefs.

Work on every bike as if it’s my own.
Listen to what the customer is (or is not) saying.
Ask clarifying questions and fully explain.
Always try to make the customer’s experience as positive as possible.
When working on a bike, to get the bike to its best performance as inexpensive as possible to the customer.

This sounds like a lot but it absolutely isn’t. Using the example of someone coming in for a single cable, all those could be put into practice in a 3-4 minute exchange.

I really don’t see how any of that is difficult or why there’s any debate.

The story of my friend is a story of extremely poor customer service.

And! I gave away valve caps


I think you forgot about the 9 pages of commentary that intervened between your OP and page 9. No one doubts the absurdity of your friend's story and no doubt that shop will be belly up in short order, but there emerged as well an attitude that all shops should charge what Amazon does even if that is below their cost, as well as charging less for service than is sustainable to the business.

edit: forgot to add--it's also February!

[tomato coupe]

The story of my friend is a story of extremely poor customer service.
In your first post, you stated your friend checked the price on the internet when he got home. Did he return the cable to the store and get a refund?

[bikinchris]

there has to be a story to the $30 cable. I didn't know anything like that existed. I have never wanted a better brake cable. Maybe derailleur cable. I assume it's a result of a lot of people involved that know nothing about bikes. I also assume they all drive a mercedes and think that any little part should cost $30, like valve caps

Ride On cables from W.L. Gore used to sell fully sealed cables with full length Teflon liners. They were a pain to put in and would last decades if you put them in correctly. Slickest cables around and you really could feel the difference between them and top cables from Shimano or Campy in both shifting and braking.
They cost a whole lot and if I remember correctly a single brake cable liner and seal would have been about $30.

[benb]

I don't think I'd necessarily go for $30 for the cable alone but I wouldn't really get so upset about this if it had happened to me. I'm sure I've overpaid for cables and housing running into the LBS at the last minute when I needed to get my maintenance done on a schedule. Not going to cry about a cable when I'm working on a bike I spent thousands on. Many many times I've been working on something I want done fast and I had an oversight and am missing one of these small high margin parts and I go to the shop and pay whatever. Lots of LBSes have insane markups on housing ferrules & cable ends too. Who cares, it's highway robbery of a couple bucks.

Anyone whose got the expensive stuff most people have here should not get so upset about small parts with a markup at the shop.

Don't go to the shop, let the shop go out of business, then you can just order everything, wait for it, and do all the work yourself.

Some of this kind of stuff is necessary IMO for the shop to stay in business.

Also if this cable was some boutique brand like Ceramic Speed with some dumb performance claim (1W equivalent savings because of lower hand effort!) and some Pro team was using it half the people on this forum would be buying it and be OK with it costing $30 even if it was just a regular cable marked up. It's very hard to believe some of the rage in this thread isn't just cause Trek is a whipping boy here.

[ntb1001]

I find that tape between $20 and $45 everywhere including the Trek Store?

https://www.trekbikestore.com/product-list/parts-1051/handlebar-grips-tape-1070/tape-1072/



FWIW It takes time to install bar tape correctly.




I bought it as I was getting some work done and I’m the guy that brings my own parts so I felt obligated to buy something besides a labour....but prime example as to why I bring my own parts!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peanutgallery]

If the shop provides a service and you need the service and you agree on a price for said service...how is that a rip-off?

Winter, lots of time to stress about the price of bike sundries...and to tell stories

One of the most absurd comments I’ve ever read on this forum. Let’s see if I can paraphrase....

When you walk into a bike shop, bring your wallet and be willing to be taken advantage of.

Let me repeat the entire story as clear as possible.

An 80 year old man walks into a bike shop and asked for one brake cable.
No housing, no other requirements. Just one single brake cable.
The employee who he assumed was either the owner or manager hands him a single (packaged) brake cable and says that’s $29.95 plus tax. No clarifying questions.

The 80 year old looks to be a stereotypical old, disheveled, retired guy. Does not look like anything else...ex-pro, avid cyclist, whatever. He says no thanks and walks out. He could have just as easily been a grandad trying to fix a grandkids bike or simply trying to fix a neighborhood cruiser.

In what world is this not trying to up-sale or take advantage of a customer?

I just retired from a bike shop in San Antonio. This type of transaction happened daily. After asking the customer road or mountain bike, I’d pull a Jagwire cable (cost $1.07 each) and hand it to the customer and charge $3. I’d always give them for free w/o their asking 2-3 crimps to go with the cable.

There’s no more to this story. The manager/owner/employee (whatever his title) either didn’t know what he was doing or trying to pass off a ridiculously priced item that wasn’t any where what the customer needed or wanted.

I always operated with a few simple beliefs.

Work on every bike as if it’s my own.
Listen to what the customer is (or is not) saying.
Ask clarifying questions and fully explain.
Always try to make the customer’s experience as positive as possible.
When working on a bike, to get the bike to its best performance as inexpensive as possible to the customer.

This sounds like a lot but it absolutely isn’t. Using the example of someone coming in for a single cable, all those could be put into practice in a 3-4 minute exchange.

I really don’t see how any of that is difficult or why there’s any debate.

The story of my friend is a story of extremely poor customer service.

And! I gave away valve caps

[unterhausen]

That can't be the whole story. As I related earlier, my local Trek dealer doesn't even stock the $29.95 Bontrager brake cable - they only carry the $19.95 and $5.95 Bontrager brake cables. Had the customer in the OP's story been offered the $5.95 brake cable (still a Trek product), this thread probably never would have been started.

Trek doesn't care if a Trek dealer stocks an expensive Bontrager cable or a cheap one. I suspect they don't care about cables at all unless it's a store they own. I'm sure they prefer everything on display is a Trek brand, but they know the reality is people will carry other stuff. I'm pretty sure the breakup of my lbs with Trek was over bikes, not sundries.

[Velocipede]

Ride On cables from W.L. Gore used to sell fully sealed cables with full length Teflon liners. They were a pain to put in and would last decades if you put them in correctly. Slickest cables around and you really could feel the difference between them and top cables from Shimano or Campy in both shifting and braking.
They cost a whole lot and if I remember correctly a single brake cable liner and seal would have been about $30.

The original Gore Tex Ride-On Cable Kit retailed for $55 back when it came out. The kit included two brake or derailleur inner wires, the liner, a bunch of housing, two cable grubs, end cap crimps and ferrules. AND they came with a warranty!!!

I have Gore kits that are still working just fine. I've installed kits on peoples bikes back in 95 that are still perfect. I've got a kit on a 94 mountain bike that's still perfect. The one time I broke a brake inner wire, I called them up and they sent me an entire new kit.

The new kits that came out were $60 and while slightly different, they still offered excellent and upgraded performance AND a warranty!

Big difference between the OP's buddy who got a coated inner wire for $30 and a full kit like the Gore ones. If the shop cared about things, they would've asked what he wanted and given him options and explained things.