Criterium Wheels

[J.Greene]

those of you that race criteriums, what wheels do you use?

JG

[swoop]

mavic cosmic carbones.

this year i'm experimenting with reynolds dv46c's. i can't imagine anything being better than a cosmic in a crit.

and yes on tuses bontragers too.

consider that the complete list.

[obtuse]

cosmic carbones or bontrager aelous wheels.

obtuse

[Too Tall]

Nimble Fly (front) Nimble Crosswind (rear) or my fav. are plain old run of the mill 32 spoke velocity aeroheads esp. for racing with lots of corners. Yah gotta think that esp. in a crit you are not worried about aero right?

[labratmatt]

Old 9 speed 32 hole Record hubs laced to Velocity Aeroheads using straight 14 spokes. Fantastic wheels.

[J.Greene]

Nimble Fly (front) Nimble Crosswind (rear) or my fav. are plain old run of the mill 32 spoke velocity aeroheads esp. for racing with lots of corners. Yah gotta think that esp. in a crit you are not worried about aero right?

that's what I was thinking. plus the chances of me going solo are nil to none. I bought some light hubs last night from a guy who is faster than me. I'll be mating them to some 345g 28 hole Campagnolo rims.

I was just curious as to what other people do.

JG

[fstrthnu]

Jon,

The lightweight, non-aero rims, mated with a reliable lacing pattern, and of course your new hubs would be the choice of any Pro crit racer. When I had a large selection of Campy wheels while riding for Team Navigators, I always prefered the Hyperon's over any other model Campy offered. They were compliant in the corners (not too stiff) and easy to accelarate/decelarate.

Justin

[J.Greene]

Jon,

The lightweight, non-aero rims, mated with a reliable lacing pattern, and of course your new hubs would be the choice of any Pro crit racer. When I had a large selection of Campy wheels while riding for Team Navigators, I always prefered the Hyperon's over any other model Campy offered. They were compliant in the corners (not too stiff) and easy to accelarate/decelarate.

Justin

thanks,
I think the wheels I'm building will be perfect. With the right spokes they may be as light as 1200g.

JG

[swoop]

Jon,

The lightweight, non-aero rims, mated with a reliable lacing pattern, and of course your new hubs would be the choice of any Pro crit racer. When I had a large selection of Campy wheels while riding for Team Navigators, I always prefered the Hyperon's over any other model Campy offered. They were compliant in the corners (not too stiff) and easy to accelarate/decelarate.

Justin

as a footnote.. the team navigators justin is referring to was probably the best all male reveiw/interprative dance troupe to ever work bachelorette party circuit. he does a wicked fireman tribute. that the bike team stole their name was a travesty.

regardless, take his word... not mine. i ride in circles , he races. huge diff.

[sspielman]

that's what I was thinking. plus the chances of me going solo are nil to none. I bought some light hubs last night from a guy who is faster than me. I'll be mating them to some 345g 28 hole Campagnolo rims.

I was just curious as to what other people do.

JG

345g rims with 28 spokes are pretty light....I see a couple of potential problems...First, rims that light can dent pretty easily....and you know that in a criterium you are usually so tight in the pack that you have no idea what you are riding over....Second, 28 spokes with rims that light is really pushing things with 9/10 speed dishing on the rear. On a rim that light, you can only get the driveside spokes SO tight without risking pulling the eyelets through or cracking the rim...So, if you back off the tension on the driveside, that necessarily reduces the tension on the other side which increases the likelihood of spoke breakage from flexing/fatigue...and with 28 spokes, when one breaks, the wheel is usually enough out of true to make it unworkable... It might work, but you are pressing the limits of reliability....

[obtuse]

if you're insistent on doing handbuilts i've got to agree with fstrthnu. there are no deep section rims worth considering for crits....the nominal increase in aerodynamics is more than offset by how shi'itey the things corner.....part of the beauty of a cosmic carbone or an aelous or a lightweight/ada is that the things are built stiff enough with out being too stiff so they don't get choppy and sketchy when cornering hard.



build them up 32 double butted dt swiss or sapim cx/ray spokes, tie and solder the mothers and use the lightest tubular rim you can find.


EDIT: i didn't see that you were using 28hole hubs.....be careful with your rim selection.....you might want something a little bit stronger for the back to account for the dish and resulting spoke tension.

obtuse

[J.Greene]

345g rims with 28 spokes are pretty light....I see a couple of potential problems...First, rims that light can dent pretty easily....and you know that in a criterium you are usually so tight in the pack that you have no idea what you are riding over....Second, 28 spokes with rims that light is really pushing things with 9/10 speed dishing on the rear. On a rim that light, you can only get the driveside spokes SO tight without risking pulling the eyelets through or cracking the rim...So, if you back off the tension on the driveside, that necessarily reduces the tension on the other side which increases the likelihood of spoke breakage from flexing/fatigue...and with 28 spokes, when one breaks, the wheel is usually enough out of true to make it unworkable... It might work, but you are pressing the limits of reliability....

I'll be 135 lbs by mid feb so that will help. And if not.......that's why they have the free lap rule atmo.

JG

[Grant McLean]

I'll be 135 lbs by mid feb so that will help. And if not.......that's why they have the free lap rule atmo.

JG

At 140ish, i've had zero problems with 28 hole wheels,
and in terms of handbuilts, that's really all i build for
myself. My sachs has 14/17 on the non-drive rear,
and 14/16 on the drive side. It's supposed to help
with the tension.

I just keep an eye on the non-drive rear spoke tension,
but no issues.

g

[swoop]

free laps will do you no good with five to go when it matters. if you can push the wattage cosmics are sublime. i'm pretty enamoured of these reynolds now that thye have great hubs and beter lay up.

bontragers are as good as it gets too. but if you have a really seriously good wheel builder.. go for it.

but try some cosmics if you can get your hands on them. for a crit where you are holding speed.. pretty perfect.

[J.Greene]

free laps will do you no god with five to go when it matters. if you can push the wattage cosmics are sublime. i'm pretty enamoured of these reynolds now that thye have great hubs and beter lay up.

bontragers are as good as it gets to. but if you have a really seriously good wheel beuilder.. go for it.

but try some cosmics if you cang et your hands on them. for a crit where you are holding speed.. pretty perfect.

thanks for the encouragement, but if I'm in the race when it matters, not just surviving, there will be a party. This is my first racing season back after a 15 year off season. I'm just out to have a good time and move up a category or two.

JG

[swoop]

welcome back to the fold. have fun.. tunnel vision is your friend.

[chrisroph]

I just keep an eye on the non-drive rear spoke tension,
but no issues.

g

Agreed, the perfect reason for spoke prep or blue loctite.

[theprep]

if you're insistent on doing handbuilts i've got to agree with fstrthnu. there are no deep section rims worth considering for crits....the nominal increase in aerodynamics is more than offset by how shi'itey the things corner.....part of the beauty of a cosmic carbone or an aelous or a lightweight/ada is that the things are built stiff enough with out being too stiff so they don't get choppy and sketchy when cornering hard.



build them up 32 double butted dt swiss or sapim cx/ray spokes, tie and solder the mothers and use the lightest tubular rim you can find.


EDIT: i didn't see that you were using 28hole hubs.....be careful with your rim selection.....you might want something a little bit stronger for the back to account for the dish and resulting spoke tension.

obtuse

What rim do you guys think is at the core of a Cosmic Carbone? If you squeeze the fairing you can feel the rim underneath. Could it be a CXP 33 under there?

Not enough spokes for an Open Pro to hold up. Hmmm?

[Ti Designs]

Campy Record Chrono 36 hole tubular rims laced to Dura-Ace hubs. 280g rims, alloy nipples, lots of spokes - what's not to like?

[obtuse]

What rim do you guys think is at the core of a Cosmic Carbone? If you squeeze the fairing you can feel the rim underneath. Could it be a CXP 33 under there?

Not enough spokes for an Open Pro to hold up. Hmmm?


it's not either but its closer to a reflex than anything else....the fact of the matter is the whole thing is designed to work together as a unit; the bub design, spoke pattern, and rim are all part of the whole wheel....you can't take one piece of the equation and a cosmic carbone make.

obtuse

[learlove]

ult 10spd hubs, 32 hole open pros, 3x all around - force/attack tires. works good, lasts along time.

[AgilisMerlin]

ult 10spd hubs, 32 hole open pros, 3x all around - force/attack tires. works good, lasts along time.


agree. nice price too. :D



AmerliN

[J.Greene]

Campy Record Chrono 36 hole tubular rims laced to Dura-Ace hubs. 280g rims, alloy nipples, lots of spokes - what's not to like?

I love the rims, but not on those hubs atmo. It violates my sense of right and wrong.

JG

[Ti Designs]

I love the rims, but not on those hubs atmo. It violates my sense of right and wrong.


Yeh, Campy rims on Shimano hubs sounds wrong to me too. I had retired from racing long before those wheels were built. Back when I was racing it was Campy Chrono 36's on Campy Nuovo record high flange - not that was a wheel! I still have two sets of those if anyone is interested...

[Tom Kellogg]

Depends on conditions. Dry and fairly smooth I just use a set of Zipp 303s. I only weigh 150 when I race. If it gets a bit rougher or it is wet, ANY carbon wheel, whether it has aluminum breaking surfaces or not, is out. They just won't stick nearly as well in the corners. In the wet or in really rough crits, I use my training wheels which are Reflex tubular 32 hole front (Vit. CX) and Campy Sygma Strada 32 hole rear (Vit.CX). The rims are much more supple and comfortable than anything in carbon or deep section. Good tubulars are a must as well. They just stick better and give much better feedback. GO AT IT.

[chrisroph]

I use zipp 303's with conti comp 23's or nucleon tubies with vittoria cx front cg rear. Depends on my mood and the conditions.

I also have available some record 28's with nos ssc paris roubaix rims, cross 3 rear, 14-15 db spokes drive side brass nips, revo alloy nips non drive side, front 2 cross revos and alloy nips all t&s that I could ride this year. These are very comfy like tk's trainers.

I'm in the process of trying to convert some campy 8 speed wheels to 10. These are about 1994-95 versions with steel axles. Does anybody know if they can be converted?

If I am successful, I will also have a set of shamal tubies and 32 hole record hub with campy omega strada spokes to use too.

I've never ridden clinchers in a crit and am disinclined because of the superior feel and traction provided by fine tubulars.

[shinomaster]

I use zipp 303's with conti comp 23's or nucleon tubies with vittoria cx front cg rear. Depends on my mood and the conditions.

I also have available some record 28's with nos ssc paris roubaix rims, cross 3 rear, 14-15 db spokes drive side brass nips, revo alloy nips non drive side, front 2 cross revos and alloy nips all t&s that I could ride this year. These are very comfy like tk's trainers.

I'm in the process of trying to convert some campy 8 speed wheels to 10. These are about 1994-95 versions with steel axles. Does anybody know if they can be converted?

If I am successful, I will also have a set of shamal tubies and 32 hole record hub with campy omega strada spokes to use too.

I've never ridden clinchers in a crit and am disinclined because of the superior feel and traction provided by fine tubulars.

I'll rent you my new 9 speed shamals....$50. a race? :banana:

[chrisroph]

I'll rent you my new 9 speed shamals....$50. a race? :banana:


Can I check out the freehub body sometime? Or, we could swap for something. Do you need a nice older steel ciocc or pinarello frameset?

[shinomaster]

yes I do...what size?

[chrisroph]

yes I do...what size?

ciocc is about a 57, its a really good bike, handles great, won a roadrace on it once, pinarello is bigger, like a 59. They are both in my shed if you want to take a look see.