hrv for training?

[purplecu22]

Hrv???

Im 50 this year. I use to use HR to measure recovery. Well just because you have a low heart rate doesnt mean anything. So older guys and Women. HRV user here??

Not as fast as i used to be but i have better bikes!!

jeff:banana:

[joosttx]

I use it with great benefits. I use Whoop which considers HRV as one its measures of stress and recovery.

If you go with straight HRV measurements there can be lots of noise in the measurement because it’s highly variable based on what your situation when it is measured. So it’s best to take HRV measurement at the same time and under the same conditions or/and average several HRV readings to get a score. I believe whoop does that for you which is nice.

[dem]

I tried it for a year or two - for me personally there was way too much noise to be useful. A stressful day, bad sleep, a drink.. all caused more noise than signal from a century, a hard interval week, etc.

Maybe if you can limit all those variables like a pro it is more useful, or your own body reacts more dramatically to training.

[glepore]

I tried it for a year or two - for me personally there was way too much noise to be useful. A stressful day, bad sleep, a drink.. all caused more noise than signal from a century, a hard interval week, etc.

Maybe if you can limit all those variables like a pro it is more useful, or your own body reacts more dramatically to training.

That's sorta the point. You can easily tell when your legs are tired. You're less sensitive to what else is going on.

I don't let it dictate my training but I do consider it when I assess whether 2x20's are on the plate.

[joosttx]

I tried it for a year or two - for me personally there was way too much noise to be useful. A stressful day, bad sleep, a drink.. all caused more noise than signal from a century, a hard interval week, etc.

Maybe if you can limit all those variables like a pro it is more useful, or your own body reacts more dramatically to training.

The noise I was talking about is something like measuring HRV after running up a flight of stairs and comparing an HRV measure when you first wake up. This is an extreme example but you get the point that you need to standardize the measurement.

The noise that comes from nonexercise stress I would argue is not noise. Stress, bad sleep, drinking (your examples) are all things that can somewhat can be controlled. If drinking rocks your HRV, choose to limit drinking or not. I am taking my wife out for Valentine's Day. I plan to drink wine and therefore I am not going to train on Saturday because I know Ill rock my HRV. I had one beer during the Super Bowl.

My daughter yesterday was very difficult to deal with. It was a very stressful day. I learned during stress days if I meditate that night I can somewhat control the HRV response to stress. I meditated last night before bed and my HRV was a decent number this morning. Also, if I can I consciously know that if I get stressed out then my HRV will be high. I can make a conscious effort not to let things affect me in a stressful way.

I found my Whoop more if not as much as important for training as I found it for 200K miles a year on a plane for business.

[joosttx]

Hrv???

Im 50 this year. I use to use HR to measure recovery. Well just because you have a low heart rate doesnt mean anything. So older guys and Women. HRV user here??

Not as fast as i used to be but i have better bikes!!

jeff:banana:

What app do you plan to use?

[Heisenberg]

I tried it for a year or two - for me personally there was way too much noise to be useful. A stressful day, bad sleep, a drink.. all caused more noise than signal from a century, a hard interval week, etc.

Maybe if you can limit all those variables like a pro it is more useful, or your own body reacts more dramatically to training.

accurately recording hr is also pretty key - the whoop strap is worthless in this regard. the data is so bad it's essentially useless, beyond even approximation. ditched mine after three mo, not alone in this regard.

not sure how well the other wrist hr monitors do.

[CDM]

Returned mine too...within 30 days. All of the data was way off. Discussed with their support and they didnt have any solution.

[Bentley]

Returned mine too...within 30 days. All of the data was way off. Discussed with their support and they didnt have any solution.

I’ve suspected at times that my Whoop data is off, but how can you say that as affirmatively as you do... you wearing a halter or some other device all the time?

[dem]

I used a Polar H9(?) one of the more advanced HR straps.

I would measure the same way and same time every morning.

I could tell no difference in my performance from a "bad" HR stress day and a "good" HR stress day. Either in perceived exertion, objective HR drift, recovery time, resting heart rate levels, etc. It was effectively random for me.

I am a huge data nerd and have power/HR data going back a decade.

Maybe when I am retired I will try it again when I don't have as much random stress going on.

[Heisenberg]

I’ve suspected at times that my Whoop data is off, but how can you say that as affirmatively as you do... you wearing a halter or some other device all the time?

compared data side by side with my wahoo chest strap at rest and while riding. whoop had often/sudden/abnormal prolonged spikes (like doing 20min threshold efforts sitting at my computer) and tended to read consistently high on the magnitude of 10-20%. the “recovery” scores had no correlation to power performance or rpe.

whoop suggested i move the band to my forearm/bicep (!!!), apparently it can’t record well when cycling (double !!!). they refused to cancel the sub and take the pos back after weeks of back and forth. i’m also a data junkie who knows a thing or two about it, and don’t have time enough to really care.

[joosttx]

compared data side by side with my wahoo chest strap at rest and while riding. whoop had often/sudden/abnormal prolonged spikes (like doing 20min threshold efforts sitting at my computer) and tended to read consistently high on the magnitude of 10-20%. the “recovery” scores had no correlation to power performance or rpe.

whoop suggested i move the band to my forearm/bicep (!!!), apparently it can’t record well when cycling (double !!!). they refused to cancel the sub and take the pos back after weeks of back and forth. i’m also a data junkie who knows a thing or two about it, and don’t have time enough to really care.
I don’t use it for cycling. But for hRV and recovery it’s been very good for me.

[Bentley]

So I have a Polar HRM, the Vantage. Honestly, all of these devices are far from accurate so I do not see the accuracy of one device to another being the reason not to use the Whoop Strap.

I have seen differences in all three devices, but the only one that correlates "Strain" to recovery is the Whoop Strap, I do not see it as a device without limits, but it does give me more insight regarding recovery that I have found useful.

I agree that there are times that I "question" the data/validity, but I see that accross all platforms. Clearly, a chest strap is better than a wrist device, and likely the upperarm is better than the wrist since the device is more prone to be moved near the wrist than the upper arm.

If you do not see a value in the Whoop strap I understand not using it, but I dont think there is enough data (positive or negative) to say that one device is more accurate than another.

[glepore]

My issue w/ whoop is that its 300 bucks or so, and is a subscription model.
You get similar benefits from a $50 hrm strap and a free or cheap app.

[Old School]

The people I ride with, who use HRV as a training tool, tell me that the secret is 24 hour HRM. They wear an armband 24/7, and during sleep is particularly relevant.

I haven't done it, but these are men and women I race with, and they swear by their methods. I will ask them what hardware and app in particular, and report back.

[Bentley]

The people I ride with, who use HRV as a training tool, tell me that the secret is 24 hour HRM. They wear an armband 24/7, and during sleep is particularly relevant.

I haven't done it, but these are men and women I race with, and they swear by their methods. I will ask them what hardware and app in particular, and report back.

The strap is good for a week without recharging so I wear mine "24/7" I agree that its not perfectly accurate, but it gives you good trend data, are you rested or do you need rest. It is new and I think it is a bit of a "Beta" product, since I started using it they updated the strap and regularly update the SW so its clearly evolving.

[benb]

I tried to use some of the HRV type methods for a very long time, basically the whole time I was riding/racing up until 2016 when I first got a PM.

I never ever felt like I could get valid data that worked well enough to benefit.. the noise is just huge.

The software, etc.. now should make it way easier but the whole wrist strap thing throws a Monkey wrench into it. Whoop looks way too expensive to be so flawed as to use a sketchy wrist sensor.

I am curious who that is considering using this already owns a PM. One year of the Whoop membership gets you nearly into a decent PM.

The conversation is much more meaningful I guess depending on whether or not you are training with power.

Most of the stuff I was trying to use back in the day had to do with resting heart rate and stuff like that. Different I guess, but also subject to all the noise.

[Bentley]

I tried to use some of the HRV type methods for a very long time, basically the whole time I was riding/racing up until 2016 when I first got a PM.

I never ever felt like I could get valid data that worked well enough to benefit.. the noise is just huge.

The software, etc.. now should make it way easier but the whole wrist strap thing throws a Monkey wrench into it. Whoop looks way too expensive to be so flawed as to use a sketchy wrist sensor.

I am curious who that is considering using this already owns a PM. One year of the Whoop membership gets you nearly into a decent PM.

The conversation is much more meaningful I guess depending on whether or not you are training with power.

Most of the stuff I was trying to use back in the day had to do with resting heart rate and stuff like that. Different I guess, but also subject to all the noise.

I dont know who is paying $300 for the strap, the strap was free with one year commitment to the service, so if you can find a $360 PM I am all in.

A PM is not a replacement for this strap, it measures Power Output which generally follows how well you train. I did Vision Quest for a few years and my Power definitely went up, but at the time I did not have visibility into how good I was recovering. The VQ cycle of 13 weeks builds up to a Power Test, there were tests that I totally crushed and then there were tests that I struggled to get thru.

I think its not one device that can give you insight into how effective your training is. Plenty has been written regarding the importance of rest/recovery with respect to how hard you train. The Whoop strap gives me a better sense, over a long period regarding how hard I am training and more importantly am I giving my body the time to rest/recover.

[hobbanero]

Apple Watch Series 5 measures HRV. You can see it in the Health app on your iPhone. I have seen numbers that are not consistent with how I feel, so I think there is still work to be done on their part.

[hobbanero]

btw I have seen a couple of clinical studies on HRV and performance in connection with an old job, and the evidence is solid. HRV is a good measurement of the health of your parasympathetic nervous system, which is impacted not just by training load, but by life. the trick, however, is accurate measurement. the study I remember used an Omegawave device, which is considerably more involved than a Whoop. interestingly, only slightly less statistically significant than HRV as a predictor of performance was self assessment.

so basically, unless you have a good HRV measurement tool and protocol, how you feel is a remarkably accurate way of determining how you are.

[benb]

I dont know who is paying $300 for the strap, the strap was free with one year commitment to the service, so if you can find a $360 PM I am all in.

A PM is not a replacement for this strap, it measures Power Output which generally follows how well you train. I did Vision Quest for a few years and my Power definitely went up, but at the time I did not have visibility into how good I was recovering. The VQ cycle of 13 weeks builds up to a Power Test, there were tests that I totally crushed and then there were tests that I struggled to get thru.

I think its not one device that can give you insight into how effective your training is. Plenty has been written regarding the importance of rest/recovery with respect to how hard you train. The Whoop strap gives me a better sense, over a long period regarding how hard I am training and more importantly am I giving my body the time to rest/recover.

I'm still confused as to whether or not you are saying you are using this in addition to a Power Meter. How does this thing claim to measure Power?

The service for the Whoop is required correct? That's where I got the money thing from.

You can get a 105 single-sided Stages PM for $299, no monthly service required. I am guessing you can get other strain-gauge based PMs in that ballpark now too. The PM is a sunk cost once you have it.

I am not saying HRV might not work, But I'm skeptical if it's based on a wrist strap device that has poor capability to read your heart rate at all. Show me which wrist device is actually reliable & accurate... I've never seen anyone who has experience with wearing a chest strap monitor claim the wrist ones are accurate.

There's also the question of whether we should actually need this to judge recovery. I do wear a HRM every time I ride, between that and the PM it's extremely easy for me to feel my fatigue level.

[Bentley]

I was responding to the post that said you can buy a good Powermeter for the price of a Whoop strap, which as you point out and I was explaining are two different things.

A Whoop Strap measures strain, basically how much work and how long, and recovery (HRV) it does not and I did not say it’s a powermeter

[trener1]

I have a Garmin Vivosprt which I wear pretty much 24/7, so far I have been unable to figure though how to get HRV data from it, it doesn't seem to be in Garmin's software/app.
Does anyone have any insight into this?.

[Louis]

I normally don't go for stuff like this, but I'm intrigued by HRV.

I don't have a smart phone (and thus can't put an app on it) but I do have an Amazon Fire 8 tablet, that appears to have Bluetooth connectivity (although I haven't used that yet). And, I think one can put apps on the Fire

The current HRM transmitter straps I'm using can't measure the stuff needed to do HRV, but I'm willing to buy, say, a Polar H7 (Bluetooth only) or H10 (Bluetooth or ANT+).

Anyone out there familiar enough with this stuff to comment?

TIA
Louis

[glepore]

I normally don't go for stuff like this, but I'm intrigued by HRV.

I don't have a smart phone (and thus can't put an app on it) but I do have an Amazon Fire 8 tablet, that appears to have Bluetooth connectivity (although I haven't used that yet). And, I think one can put apps on the Fire

The current HRM transmitter straps I'm using can't measure the stuff needed to do HRV, but I'm willing to buy, say, a Polar H7 (Bluetooth only) or H10 (Bluetooth or ANT+).

Anyone out there familiar enough with this stuff to comment?

TIA
Louis

https://elitehrv.com/compatible-devices

Some good info there.

[skitlets]

I was interested in HRV measurement and didn't want to pony up for the whoop subscription, so I got the cheap garmin vivosmart 4. It doesn't provide a raw HRV value but uses it as part of a "battery score" measurement.

I'm surprised at how well it tracks with my self-assessment. Worth a look without a big investment.