Existing Wheels Question

[tuxbailey]

I have a pair of DT RR440 laced to Record hubs that I bought from the classifieds. To be honest I like riding on them. They have been involved in a major crash and but they were not damaged and I rode them in a metric century as well.

However, they are very hard to mount tires on, compared to the Mavic wheels for example. I ruined a few tubes already and one of my fears is that I suffer a puncture on the road and end up destroying the spare tube and can't get home.

I wonder if I should:

1. Sell the wheels (cheap and with full disclosure.)
2. Convert to tubeless (since wheels are tubeless compatible.)
3. Sell the hubs.
4. Send the hubs to oldspud to build a new set (he built them originally.)
5. Leave them in the garage as back up.

What would you do?

[echappist]

I have a pair of DT RR440 laced to Record hubs that I bought from the classifieds. To be honest I like riding on them. They have been involved in a major crash and but they were not damaged and I rode them in a metric century as well.

However, they are very hard to mount tires on, compared to the Mavic wheels for example. I ruined a few tubes already and one of my fears is that I suffer a puncture on the road and end up destroying the spare tube and can't get home.

I wonder if I should:

1. Sell the wheels (cheap and with full disclosure.)
2. Convert to tubeless (since wheels are tubeless compatible.)
3. Sell the hubs.
4. Send the hubs to oldspud to build a new set (he built them originally.)
5. Leave them in the garage as back up.

What would you do?

Carry a spritzer bottle of soapy water with you

The reason why tires are hard to mount is because the rims are tubeless ready. Converting the set-up to tubeless won't affect anything (it'll still be really difficult to mount).

I have a similar tubeless ready rim that is a royal PITA to mount. It got so bad that I pinched two tubes during installation and had to rely on the kindness of someone to drop me off at the nearby bike shop.

[tuxbailey]

Carry a spritzer bottle of soapy water with you

The reason why tires are hard to mount is because the rims are tubeless ready. Converting the set-up to tubeless won't affect anything (it'll still be really difficult to mount).

I have a similar tubeless ready rim that is a royal PITA to mount. It got so bad that I pinched two tubes during installation and had to rely on the kindness of someone to drop me off at the nearby bike shop.

So I spray soapy water at the rim in the last part of the mounting process?

[rohan]

I try to carry both a spare tube and a patch kit.

[Clean39T]

I have a pair of DT RR440 laced to Record hubs that I bought from the classifieds. To be honest I like riding on them. They have been involved in a major crash and but they were not damaged and I rode them in a metric century as well.

However, they are very hard to mount tires on, compared to the Mavic wheels for example. I ruined a few tubes already and one of my fears is that I suffer a puncture on the road and end up destroying the spare tube and can't get home.

I wonder if I should:

1. Sell the wheels (cheap and with full disclosure.)
2. Convert to tubeless (since wheels are tubeless compatible.)
3. Sell the hubs.
4. Send the hubs to oldspud to build a new set (he built them originally.)
5. Leave them in the garage as back up.

What would you do?

Read up on best practices for mounting the tires, check you have very thin rim tape, and get some small slick levers (I prefer the Campy ones). I have yet to meet a tire I couldn't eventually figure out how to get mounted - I was making mistakes early on just doing what I'd always done until I read some stuff here and paid more attention to the process..

[xtheendisnearx]

If they're tubeless compatible, why not run them tubeless?

[echappist]

So I spray soapy water at the rim in the last part of the mounting process?

I generally spray the rim before placing the tire beads on the central channel of the rim. So it generally goes:

-1) spray soapy water on rim;
-2) mount tires so that beads on on the central channel;
-3) inflate (using a blaster)

[Mark McM]

Carry a spritzer bottle of soapy water with you.

Wait, so now we have to carry spritz bottles with us? I thought tubeless tires/rims were supposed to make our lives easier. I have a hard enough time making sure the glue in my patch kit doesn't dry out between uses, I have no idea how I'm going to keep a spritz bottle from leaking in my saddle bag.

[doomridesout]

What rim tape are you using? I made the mistake of using cloth Velox tape in 440s and had the same problem. Switched to a thin tubeless tape and no problem.

[lavi]

I have these rims. While they may be a bit tight (also depends on tire brand), I don't have any serious issues mounting at home or on road.

Unless you "hate" them, don't sell. I've had mine a very long time with lots of miles. Zero issues*.

*except the "older", more narrow inner width. Not really an issue.

[echappist]

Wait, so now we have to carry spritz bottles with us? I thought tubeless tires/rims were supposed to make our lives easier. I have a hard enough time making sure the glue in my patch kit doesn't dry out between uses, I have no idea how I'm going to keep a spritz bottle from leaking in my saddle bag.

If one is using a tubeless rim with an inner tube, then yes, this will be rather prudent

It would still be prudent even if the tubeless rim were set up tubeless, as there may be times when the tire won't seal properly (and one would need to resort to inner tubes)

I've carried this thing around when riding outdoors, and it's worked well (original cedar spray was used up; I just filled the bottle with soapy water)

https://xucezw.by.files.1drv.com/y4m7BpjFdigSJStUvJKRjh3ueAG9LDXK3WPgavNRr4yrKkWfq7 loNsR4mrZPELgYQBvjsQ97HnfHceQod4J1UlFyNjfxfYdg9dQk DbNsot1M3QKTQJqojlIxG8tFZ7UzV9nWz_uLYj7QCPCwLkAEEH 8ZOasaz4exMNyehDaZ5ykHDFb0hpOvmMSSRqE6BOW6necJFjdj VDtBSnLeGP88MSnZw?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none

[tuxbailey]

What rim tape are you using? I made the mistake of using cloth Velox tape in 440s and had the same problem. Switched to a thin tubeless tape and no problem.

Hmmm... I have to take a look. The tape was there already but I don't think it was clothed. But I am not sure. it seemed like it was yellow, transparent thin tape iirc.

[rePhil]

What rim tape are you using? Switching to something like FSA or Continental rim strips can make a difference.

[tuxbailey]

I have these rims. While they may be a bit tight (also depends on tire brand), I don't have any serious issues mounting at home or on road.

Unless you "hate" them, don't sell. I've had mine a very long time with lots of miles. Zero issues*.

*except the "older", more narrow inner width. Not really an issue.

That is the thing. I do like the wheels. What brand of tires work best for you?

[madsciencenow]

What rim tape are you using? I made the mistake of using cloth Velox tape in 440s and had the same problem. Switched to a thin tubeless tape and no problem.



This. Had the same experience with these rims and used stans tape. No problems going forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tuxbailey]

What rim tape are you using? Switching to something like FSA or Continental rim strips can make a difference.

Can you explain how rim tape can make a difference?

I get the tire 7/8 way in and the rest is about 5-6 inches pulled tight across the top of the rim. I can't flip it over with the tire iron unless I push the lever in really deep and that is when I usually ruin the tube.

With other wheels I can usually just leave the lip of the lever at the edge and gently flip the bead over.

For Ksyrium wheel, the whole tire is practically loose around the rim and I can usually mount it without using tools.

[tuxbailey]

Seems like rim tape is the consensus. I will order some and give it a try over the weekend.

[unterhausen]

Tubeless tape should help a lot. Also, you should be able to mount tires without tools. Put one bead on, put the second bead on starting opposite the valve. Push both beads to the center and work all the slack to the valve. Even tight tires will not be too difficult to get the remaining bead over the rim with your thumbs

Boyd's video is pretty good, leaves out a little bit of the technique

[lavi]

That is the thing. I do like the wheels. What brand of tires work best for you?

I have used (in order of oldest to most recent):
- Conti GPs
- Michelin Race
- Vitt Corsa Gs

Contis can be challenging. The Vitts seem to go on the most easily.

[ergott]

I believe that Schwalbe has done the most recent work on making their tire beads a more consistent fit. Their tubeless tires have been much easier to fit recently and it's still a secure interference fit you want from tubeless. I know of horror stories from Bontrager. If you are open to the idea, try some tubeless Schwalbes. They ride great and wear well.

[rccardr]

It also helps if the tires are warm the first time you put them on.
Leave in the sun, use a heat gun or hairdryer, put them in the dryer (but not if your partner/room mate hates the smell of hot rubber), etc.

Most tires are easier to install after the first time; they stretch a little.

[tuxbailey]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I will try and report back.

[oldpotatoe]

i have a pair of dt rr440 laced to record hubs that i bought from the classifieds. To be honest i like riding on them. They have been involved in a major crash and but they were not damaged and i rode them in a metric century as well.

However, they are very hard to mount tires on, compared to the mavic wheels for example. I ruined a few tubes already and one of my fears is that i suffer a puncture on the road and end up destroying the spare tube and can't get home.

I wonder if i should:

1. Sell the wheels (cheap and with full disclosure.)
2. Convert to tubeless (since wheels are tubeless compatible.)
3. Sell the hubs.
4. Send the hubs to oldspud to build a new set (he built them originally.)
5. Leave them in the garage as back up.

What would you do?

this!!:)

BUT..get one side of the tire on, and deep into the center of the rim..then put wheel on ground and push, push, push on tire until at opposite side then pop on..Use cotton, supple tires.

[colker]

I would build a pair of tubulars and forget the tubeless nonsense. Otoh... if i build a tubeless wheel i would carry a patch set up and fix any flat if it happens. Slow but effective.

[Black Dog]

this!!:)

BUT..get one side of the tire on, and deep into the center of the rim..then put wheel on ground and push, push, push on tire until at opposite side then pop on..Use cotton, supple tires.

Not doing this is the most common reason for having troubles mounting a tire. Get a thin rim strip/tape on the rim and do this and you should be good to go. Also, mounting new tires is always harder than tires that have had some use. They do stretch out a bit.

[R3awak3n]

Some rim/tire combos are a pain to mount... period. Does not matter if you spray soapy water, magic unicorn dust, put tire on center channel, have magical tire levers... just does not matter... the tire is too tight and its a pain. A tire bead jack is what I use to get the tire on initially. Even with the jack, sometimes its hard to get on... eventually the tire will stretch a little bit and make it possible to get on while on the road (I have had that it was still very hard but never got stranded). You could always carry the tire jack but I wouldn't.

As someone mentioned, this is all because of tubeless. Tires are getting tighter around the rim (which are getting wider also making it harder to mount tires). Its a good thing because you ant the tire tight on the rim so its easy to set up tubeless (some can even just pump a new tubeless tire with a hand pump), also tire will not come off the rim if you have a flat. That said, if you are still using tubes, this is a huge PITA.

[tv_vt]

Ditch the rims and have the hubs rebuilt with DT R460 rims. They are so much nicer than the 440 rims, and it's way easier to mount tires on them. Not too expensive either.

I've had a couple of wheelsets with the DT r440 rim and just hated them, for the same reasons you're dealing with. R460 are so much easier to live with, and they ride really well.

[oldpotatoe]

Ditch the rims and have the hubs rebuilt with DT R460 rims. They are so much nicer than the 440 rims, and it's way easier to mount tires on them. Not too expensive either.

I've had a couple of wheelsets with the DT r440 rim and just hated them, for the same reasons you're dealing with. R460 are so much easier to live with, and they ride really well.

440 had an OC option...and after building many of each, I certainly wouldn't say 460s are 'so much nicer'..'nicer' to get a tire on but OC, weight, quality of construction..There was a reason the 460 is $50 and the 440, wasn't. Doubt with same tires/spokes/build on you could tell a difference between 440 and 460....

BUT, 440 gone..460, 411, 511 the latest and greatest from DT with regards to road rim brake , rims.

[tuxbailey]

Update:

I tried following advice from this thread and the result was positive. First of all, the rim tape is the really thin kind, not clothed so that was not the factor.

Second, the front rim had no issue but the rear is the one giving a fit. I took out the tube, took the tire off, then put the some air in the tube and put it back in the tire. Using just my hands I got it to 4-5 inches before it couldn't go further.

I then moved to the other side and did the "move bead to the center of rim" strategy and that did the trick. With the aid of my new Pedro's lever, I was able to get it mounted.

I am so relieved.

Thank you all for the excellent advice.

[Gummee]

440 had an OC option...and after building many of each, I certainly wouldn't say 460s are 'so much nicer'..'nicer' to get a tire on but OC, weight, quality of construction..There was a reason the 460 is $50 and the 440, wasn't. Doubt with same tires/spokes/build on you could tell a difference between 440 and 460....

BUT, 440 gone..460, 411, 511 the latest and greatest from DT with regards to road rim brake , rims.

I have 2 pair of 411s. Nice rims.

Someone mentioned earlier that the key to mounting tires on tubeless rims is work TOWARDS the valve stem.

M

[oldpotatoe]

I have 2 pair of 411s. Nice rims.

Someone mentioned earlier that the key to mounting tires on tubeless rims is work TOWARDS the valve stem.

M

They ARE but way light, IMHO..I wish DT had something between 411 and 511...like the.....440?? BUT with the required rim washers and those Squorx nipples..they are very durable..As long as the builder doesn't make the "3 strikes and you are out", mistake....
Light rim, too few spokes, silly thin spokes...