Do you really enjoy riding with downtube shifters?

[BRad704]

I got this 1991 Trek 2100 Pro and have only gotten to ride it once so far. While I love the nostalgic look of the DT shifters and lack of extra cables up front, it wasn't a very fun ride. Mechanically everything works perfectly, so it's not a problem with groupset quality. (Full Shimano 1055, FWIW). I just didn't like moving my hands off the bars to shift.

The neoclassical crankset thread has me thinking again about a newer groupset.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200129/aa98e35b0f3a5aa17c727f7be442adec.jpg

And I put on my nice road wheels just to see how they looked. [emoji7]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200129/1cb55b67708e7d4c0e3556132cae8d61.jpg


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[jtakeda]

Good quality indexed DT shifters are a joy to ride.

I used 10 sp indexed downtubes and loved it. Except on super steep dirt roads, wasn’t as convenient and required some strategy but it’s still fun!

[AngryScientist]

Yes i do.

all of my main rigs now use friction shifting, either bar end of DT.

Works for me.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-N57tMKEs1mY/XhpUrlMyY7I/AAAAAAAADcs/ghQzXKqeaqoFqjgQCVJF20gpa9mPlHBIACLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_5010.jpg

[donevwil]

I'm waiting for the first person over 6' tall and 50 years old who says they truly enjoy riding with DT shifters (more so than brake/shift levers or bar ends).

[Jeckel30]

I like both. I have old frames with downtube shifters and an old frame with current 105. I think go with whatever gets you out on the bike more.

I check this thread every few days for inspiriation. https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/212733/

[fiamme red]

Yes, I do. All my road bikes except my Merckx have downtube shifters -- the Merckx has Campagnolo 10-speed Ergo. I probably shift somewhat less often on the bikes with downtube shifters, but they aren't less enjoyable to ride.

[Blue Jays]

My 1980s vintage Italian bicycles have Campagnolo Nuovo Record / Super Record drivetrains with downtube shifters. I love those bicycles.

[OldCrank]

I put a pair of Suntour bar-end shifters on many hundreds of moons ago.
Haven't felt the need for DT shifting (on my friction shift rides) since.

Pinky control FTW!

[fiamme red]

One nice thing about downtube shifters is that you can shift both front and rear with either hand. If I'm holding food in my right hand, I can use my left hand to shift the rear derailleur.

[palincss]

I didn't like them at all back in 1972 and now almost 50 years later I like them even less. My first shift with a bar-end shifter was an epiphany, love at first shift and "pry my cold dead fingers." I feel the same way today.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33914361578_f1f4cf344a_b.jpg

[jamesdak]

Well, I'm over 50 and truly love using DT shifters, both indexed and friction.

I also use totally modern setups on other bikes.

I don't get the despair of using DT shifters.:confused:

The friction setup on my Opus III is so wonderful to use and just the experience itself is a reward each time I ride it.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167931185.jpg

[OldCrank]

Not a despair thing James, and I hope I haven't offended any down tubers.
They work fine, and faster and more precisely of course.
I'm just lazy.:banana:

[zap]

It's been ages since I rode a bike with dt shifters......probably 13-15 years ago when I upgraded our tandem to Record 10. I could shift into a higher gears (5 to 6 to 7th cog) while out of the saddle using my knee.

Would I build a bike today with dt shifters? I don't think so. Maybe when I turn 80.....but that's when I said I would take up golf.

[superbowlpats]

I dont miss them. brake/shift combo levers are one of the greatest advancements in cycling imho. I spend 99.9% of my rides on the hoods, last thing i want to do is reach down to shift, especially on a steep out of the saddle climb. But DT shifters do look nice tho, especially the Campy ones.

[jemdet]

It makes for a different kind of ride. I love downtube shifting for mechanical simplicity and compatibility, but being able to shift while out of the saddle is big for hilly rides.

[Frankwurst]

I still like downtube shifters. I've been using either downtube or bar end shifters since the 70's . Something works for me I tend to stick with it.:beer:

[Mark McM]

Now that brifters are the de-facto standard on new bikes, you'd be surprised at the number of people who aren't comfortable riding with one hand off the handlebars.

I grew up with down tube (and stem mounted) shifters, but I don't miss them at all. Down tube shifters get the job done, but I find very much to like about brifters and little to dislike.

[bigbill]

When I started riding and racing, DT shifters and bar-cons were the only thing available. The hot setup for crit racing in the late 80's was a DT front and a bar-con rear, just slide your hand back and two finger shift. My first SIS bike had 8S Dura Ace with DT and a year later I added STI levers and that was a big improvement, especially in sprints.

[bicycletricycle]

using downtube shifters is my favorite way to shift.

[mtechnica]

They aight

[BobbyJones]

....as much as i like driving a car with a crash box transmission.

[jamesdak]

Not a despair thing James, and I hope I haven't offended any down tubers.
They work fine, and faster and more precisely of course.
I'm just lazy.:banana:

No,no.... I'm not offended by anyone's comments.

I just don't see a big deal about using them. Even with the later comments about climbing with them. I don't race and climbing for me means miles up mountains, not hills. So I'm certainly not standing.

Of course, I also sometimes ride the Opus above on long climbs too despite only having a 42T small ring on it. Riding different setups just helps me keep enjoying the experience.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I'm waiting for the first person over 6' tall and 50 years old who says they truly enjoy riding with DT shifters (more so than brake/shift levers or bar ends).

OK I do. (6’2”, 51 y) just finished a ride on my 8 speed indexed DT Merckx. I truly enjoy them, but I wouldn’t say I like them more than brifters. I do like being able to shift my RD with my left hand and vice versa.

[merckx]

I'm waiting for the first person over 6' tall and 50 years old who says they truly enjoy riding with DT shifters (more so than brake/shift levers or bar ends).

I'm 6'3'', 58yo, DT controls on both machines.

[veggieburger]

Yes, I still enjoy my DT shifter bike. Still enjoy friction shifting too!

[colker]

Yes. As long as the tires are quality and geometry of the bike is right i am enjoying the ride. Btw.. i have wrist pain from using brifters.

[smead]

I'm well into my 50s and am a big fan, have DT shifters on 4 classic steel rides. DA 9/10 DT shifters are so crisp - bang snap!

For hilly rides? No big deal, maybe you mash out of the saddle a few more times that you would otherwise. You also learn to power up to rollers and mash over - a la fixed gear. You also learn how to power/spin up to the rollers and get in the right gear BEFORE you need it. And if the hill is long and steep and you need to shift out of the saddle, quick sit and snap and back to work. Big whoop!

[redir]

I would think that those in their 50's who grew up using DT shifters would be far less against them then anyone who has never used them and is suddenly introduced to them. Furthermore I would think that those who are north of 6'0" would find it even easier with long monkey arms to reach the shifters.

I fit the bill and I have not problem with DT. Do I like them better? Not really but having raced bikes with both systems honestly I don't think I would loose a race because of the shifters. Modern ones obviously have an advantage but still.

[donevwil]

I would think that those in their 50's who grew up using DT shifters would be far less against them then anyone who has never used them and is suddenly introduced to them. Furthermore I would think that those who are north of 6'0" would find it even easier with long monkey arms to reach the shifters.

I fit the bill and I have not problem with DT. Do I like them better? Not really but having raced bikes with both systems honestly I don't think I would loose a race because of the shifters. Modern ones obviously have an advantage but still.

I agree with you, grew up and raced on them as well. Never had a problem and don't to this day, but if I had to choose between ergos or DTs I choose ergo. DT shifters also mean (in most cases) skinny old school brake levers, these never worked well with my XXL hands. No problem with anyone lovin DT shifters, just not for me with the options that now exist.

My over 50 (I'm 55) and 6' (I'm 6' 5") comment had to do with my more upright riding position relative to my racing days. At 6' 5" DT shifters are now about a mile away from my bars, down by that bottle thing (what's that for?). Look at Angry's picture, his are, what, maybe 8" away.

[Gsinill]

I don't...
My only bike with DT shifters is my Trek 170 since I want to keep the way it left the factory.
Probably the main reason why I ride it less than I should.

[choke]

I started on DTs and when Ergos came out I thought they were the greatest thing ever.

Fast forward several years and I had to use DTs again to ride Cino. I found that I really enjoyed using them....enough so that I took the Ergos off my favorite bike and replaced them with downtube shifters. At this point I doubt I'll ever build up a bike with Ergos again and I definitely won't buy a bike that doesn't have DT mounts. Mine are all friction only.

[zennmotion]

For me, I think that the practical rationale for DT shifters for a retro/rando-type bike is that they don't interfere with a large handlebar bag. Otherwise, if I'm opting for simplicity(less stuff to go wrong) such as on my travel bike I prefer bar ends. Likewise I like bar ends on the tandem where long cables and brifters didn't work for me, too difficult to adjust precisely (although that was back in 9/10sp drivetrain days, things may have improved... or not). I have a couple of bikes with DT shifters, but they are purposefully retro, such as a bike built for the Eroica event that I ride once in a while when my daydreams are in sepia color tones, and they work fine until I return to brifters, then I remember why they became a thing.

[Black Dog]

Now that brifters are the de-facto standard on new bikes, you'd be surprised at the number of people who aren't comfortable riding with one hand off the handlebars.

I grew up with down tube (and stem mounted) shifters, but I don't miss them at all. Down tube shifters get the job done, but I find very much to like about brifters and little to dislike.

This. I started on downtube friction then indexed. I do not mind them but I really prefer brifters.

[merckx]

I began with Ergos in '93 so an early introduction for me. I used them for competition, training and touring for years, up to 11v. I ride year-round in the NE, and my bike gets flogged. About ten years ago I decided to simplify my equipment. My primary motive was to minimize maintenance time. I have a complicated life, and hanging my bicycle from the stand was time I preferred not to spend. I have really enjoyed returning to down tube shifters. Cables last forever, and they remain dialed despite abuse from weather or maintenance neglect. They simply never need adjustment or parts replacement, and I find them easy to use. I have them paired with some 90's vintage Record brake levers. I also prefer my grasp on these brake levers, but I understand that this is a minority opinion.

[82Picchio]

Riding with downtube shifters depends on the fit and frame design. If I have a well balanced frame in my size and my fit is dialed in, I love the ride. After all, shifting takes way less than 1% of the time I spend on any given ride. Shifting with downtube shifters is less enjoyable than with modern integrated gizmos, with that I agree wholeheartedly.

[charliedid]

No thank you.


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[Ralph]

Not interested in going back to those old parts. And I used them from the early 70's. Only exception might be if I was on some kind of trip where no bikes shops available....and I wanted most reliable set up out there. And it's easy to carry a couple extra cables for DT or bar ends index or friction.

[Hellgate]

In a word, "No." Says the owner of a PX10 with retrofriction levers.

[Hellgate]

When I started riding and racing, DT shifters and bar-cons were the only thing available. The hot setup for crit racing in the late 80's was a DT front and a bar-con rear, just slide your hand back and two finger shift. My first SIS bike had 8S Dura Ace with DT and a year later I added STI levers and that was a big improvement, especially in sprints.Exactly. I don't miss that at all.

I took a 10 year break from racing and tried a crit on my Ian Laing with Mavic SSC. The brifters had my ass on accelerations as I couldn't keep up due to the faster shifts.

The next day I started shopping for a new bike. Bought a Davidson Ti with Record 10. Never looked back.

[biker72]

I'm waiting for the first person over 6' tall and 50 years old who says they truly enjoy riding with DT shifters (more so than brake/shift levers or bar ends).

I meet the criteria. Over 6' tall and way over 50 years old. DT shifters were great before STI showed up. I prefer the modern stuff now.

[witcombusa]

YES! And 6' and well past 50 too. All my geared bikes have DT or barend shifters except one lone brifter bike. I have gone as far as doing builds with brifters and then ripping them off after 2-3 rides.
Personally I don't want/need to shift at every small difference in grade or wind shift. My cadence can easily vary over 30-40 rpm.

Ride what's comfortable for you!

[bikingshearer]

I'm 62 and 6'3". I am too fat and too inflexible for DT any more, as I discovered the first couple editions of Eroica California. (Barcons on the Eroica bike now.)

For context, I harken back to the days when the choices were DT and barcons. (Stem-mount? Never even considered 'em.) I always used DTs, even on my fully-loaded 1980 tour across the USA, and never thought twice about it. But I was younger, skinnier and more flexible then and had not yet been turned to the Ergo Dark Side.

I do enjoy the look of a nice DT set-up, but I would rather ride Ergo. To each his or her own.

[efixler]

I have a old trek 650b conversion with DT shifters that I used to use as a grave l bike.

I love that back, but man, it sucks when you need to shift on a bumpy downhill.

[gbcoupe]

I'm 53, can still easily palm the floor and started with friction down-tube levers years ago. I now have only one bike set up with down-tube shifters. Amazingly, I still have the muscle memory and it's not difficult. They're just not nearly as practical as shifting from the brake levers.

The change from friction to index wasn't really a big deal to me. When shift/brake levers came out. That was a game changer. Pun intended.

And my cars are manual, and like them that way.

[jbay]

I didn't like them at all back in 1972 and now almost 50 years later I like them even less. My first shift with a bar-end shifter was an epiphany, love at first shift and "pry my cold dead fingers." I feel the same way today.
Same here, but in 1982. ;)

— John

P.S. I’m sure you say the same (the “cold, dead fingers” part, that is) about the Weigle too!

[jr59]

In fact, I just replaced my brifters on the Rambouillet I’m riding. The brifters worked great, just like the DT better.

And yes, I’m 6’4 and well over 60.

[Bici-Sonora]

I'm waiting for the first person over 6' tall and 50 years old who says they truly enjoy riding with DT shifters (more so than brake/shift levers or bar ends).



6’2.5”—and i love DT shifters. If Shimano made DA9000 11 speed DTs, I’d have them on all my road bikes. Of course, I started riding using downtube shifters, So they’ve always felt normal to me. What other mechanical shifter is as light, simple, reliable, and has as clean cable routing as DTs? Answer: none.


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[Louis]

My daily driver had DT shifters, and I love them, both how they look (the shifters themselves and fewer cables in front) and the pleasure of using them. It's sort of why both of my cars have manual transmissions. It just makes riding / driving more fun.

I'd say ride the bike for a few months and see if you get used to them, I bet you will. Sometimes it takes a bit more skill to take your hand off the bars to shift, say if you're in a turn, but that's something you'll pick up after a while.

[theboucher]

I would also love 11-spd DT shifters. My dream is to run a modern drivetrain on my '83 Pinarello with DT shifters - at the moment it's sitting in the basement waiting to be built up...

I grew up with STI - but I have ridden all sorts of older drivetrains.

[joev]

I have an old Cannondale with Suntour friction shifters. Nice and smooth and they do make the ride different than the brifters.

I would not, though, ride a bike with friction shifters in a fast group ride. I don't have that skill to quickly shift and stay on speed when others are making their move in a sprint. It just isn't safe for me.

[JSL]

Indexed downtube shifting is great, but friction downtube shifting is not so great. I've found friction shifting a bit problematic when riding in groups on routes with constantly changing terrain, but at the end of the day it all works reasonably well.

What I really like is the lightness of the front end with when running downtube shifters. Everything is cleaner and just slightly more elegant. However, it's probably a generational thing. Someone new to the sport my have no idea what I mean.

[Louis]

I can handle 6 spd friction without too much trouble. Above that the shifter motion for each gear is small enough that it becomes a hassle.

[oliver1850]

I would think that those in their 50's who grew up using DT shifters would be far less against them then anyone who has never used them and is suddenly introduced to them. Furthermore I would think that those who are north of 6'0" would find it even easier with long monkey arms to reach the shifters.

I fit the bill and I have not problem with DT. Do I like them better? Not really but having raced bikes with both systems honestly I don't think I would loose a race because of the shifters. Modern ones obviously have an advantage but still.

Even at 5' 11" reaching the shifters has never been a problem for me. Keeping my fingers out of the front wheel when reaching for them has been on occasion. I still like them for their simplicity, direct cable routing, and light weight. Guessing that I have more than 10 bikes with DT shifters and I'm sure that I will build more with them if I get the chance.

[oldpotatoe]

Good quality indexed DT shifters are a joy to ride.

I used 10 sp indexed downtubes and loved it. Except on super steep dirt roads, wasn’t as convenient and required some strategy but it’s still fun!

Good quality friction shifters are a joy to ride also. Ders NEVER goes out of adjustment. BUT, gotta be fairly decent spacing between cogs, otherwise always be kinda noisy, not 'exact'. For DT index shifters, OR barends, sure, why not, Simple, cheaper, work great, never get busted if ya fall over, etc...

I use Campag retrofriction shifers on my Moots, 6s freewheel..joy to ride, particularly when it's messy outside.

'Don't like to move my hands'..well...no problem for me.

Remember where lever mounted shifting came from, MTB..where bouncing around made it real hard to move your hands to a shifter..ANOTHER thing from MTB that came to road bikes..

[Tim Porter]

When I restored my '84 Richard Sachs for L'Eroica, it took one ride to get back into using the DT shifters. (I do have to admit that I swapped out the loosey-goosey Campy shifters for some with ratchets (NOT indexed) to keep them from slipping.) Like many here, I started out with them and it became second nature almost immediately. But I like the modern ones much better . . . .

https://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a583/porterphoto1/file_zps1e6b8733.jpg

[jamesdak]

I can handle 6 spd friction without too much trouble. Above that the shifter motion for each gear is small enough that it becomes a hassle.

My old 80s Orbea is still using it's original friction DT shifters with a modern 9 speed Ultegra RD over a 10 speed Campagnolo cassette. I honestly consider this my best shifting bike of all of them. For whatever reason it just works. I'm sure a lot is due to the modern RD with pulleys designed to have play to accomandate index shifting. Just wanted to share this as many seem to think friction DT shifting is limited to around 6 gears.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/164433305.jpg

[rccardr]

Agreed. This Davidson Discovery custom has a 10 speed cassette, 8 speed Deore RD and Deore FD, with 6207 friction shifters. Works beautifully even at Eroica, which is not known for its smooth road surfaces:

[jamesdak]

Guessing that I have more than 10 bikes with DT shifters and I'm sure that I will build more with them if I get the chance.

This got me wondering.....

31 bikes built up and used regularly, 9 have DT shifters, 1 is a 3 speed internal, 1 is indexed bar ends on aero bars, and the rest are what everyone would consider modern setups.

My PR on routine 25 mile route I ride regularly was set on my DT equipped Maillot Juane during a time I was still having troubles with it ghost shifting on the rear. Ol Tater identified that others were wrong and told me what g springs I really needed in the shifters to fix the problem. So now it's even better, thanks Pete!

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166138354.jpg

Now I don't race or do group rides but if I did I most likely wouldn't take a DT bike now days.

[unterhausen]

I put DT bosses on some of my frames. Specifically if they are going to have rim brakes. But I don't use DT shifters. I still reach for them very occasionally and laugh at myself.

[johnniecakes]

This. I started on downtube friction then indexed. I do not mind them but I really prefer brifters.

Same here, If I had to pick one modern improvement to sacrifice I would prefer to back to toe clips and straps than give up the brifters.

[Tandem Rider]

I just use whatever is on the bike. All my bikes are "period original", I think that's the code phrase for cheapskate that doesn't "upgrade" anything. :) Anyway, it all works and works great. I probably have about 250K miles on down tube shifters before STI came out. I got a new bike with STI when it was time for a new bike, it was great, faster and better for racing than my old bike. It was a better race bike and the shifters were part of what made it a better race bike. All my new bikes since then have had STI. Sometimes I still ride the old bikes, they're cool, like "classic car cool" it's not a problem to shift them either. To me, it's kind of like having classic cars, I wouldn't rip the Hurst 4 speed out of an original '67 GTO Goat and put in an automatic and I also wouldn't stuff a Hurst 4 speed into a modern sports car either, you drive them as they were made.

[choke]

My old 80s Orbea is still using it's original friction DT shifters with a modern 9 speed Ultegra RD over a 10 speed Campagnolo cassette. I honestly consider this my best shifting bike of all of them. For whatever reason it just works. I'm sure a lot is due to the modern RD with pulleys designed to have play to accomandate index shifting. Just wanted to share this as many seem to think friction DT shifting is limited to around 6 gears.

Agreed. This Davidson Discovery custom has a 10 speed cassette, 8 speed Deore RD and Deore FD, with 6207 friction shifters. Works beautifully even at Eroica, which is not known for its smooth road surfaces:Count me in as well. These are friction shifting a 10sp Chorus RD on a 10sp Campy cassette.....works perfectly IMO.

http://hampco.ciocctoo.com/070416d.jpg

[BRad704]

I'd say ride the bike for a few months and see if you get used to them, I bet you will. Sometimes it takes a bit more skill to take your hand off the bars to shift, say if you're in a turn, but that's something you'll pick up after a while.
After reading through all this, I've very glad I asked the question. And I think I'll be leaving the DT's in place for a while to really see if they're for me or not. I'm 39 and DO ride fast groups and race, so I think that's where my hang-up has been over this bike. I want to be the guy that shows up and podiums on a 30 year old bike. :)

My old 80s Orbea is still using it's original friction DT shifters with a modern 9 speed Ultegra RD over a 10 speed Campagnolo cassette. I honestly consider this my best shifting bike of all of them. For whatever reason it just works. I'm sure a lot is due to the modern RD with pulleys designed to have play to accomandate index shifting. Just wanted to share this as many seem to think friction DT shifting is limited to around 6 gears.
More gears is also part of my idea. Right now I'm using the 7spd 1055 shifter as friction on an 8spd cassette because that's all I had and the 7spd chain will still work. It's good to hear that I can make a 9 cover a 10 in friction. That may happen down the road (another pun intended).

Sometimes I still ride the old bikes, they're cool, like "classic car cool" it's not a problem to shift them either. To me, it's kind of like having classic cars, I wouldn't rip the Hurst 4 speed out of an original '67 GTO Goat and put in an automatic and I also wouldn't stuff a Hurst 4 speed into a modern sports car either, you drive them as they were made.
THIS is exactly why I'm even thinking about this. If I had gotten the frame with mismatched or missing parts, I wouldn't have thought twice about putting on the Ultegra 6600 group that's in my bin... but this bike is about as original as it ever was, minus wheels and seat/post. I like the idea of keeping it that way just because.

[shoota]

I can't stand them.

[bicycletricycle]

6 foot 3 and 40 and I greatly prefer friction DT shifters.

I'm waiting for the first person over 6' tall and 50 years old who says they truly enjoy riding with DT shifters (more so than brake/shift levers or bar ends).

[FriarQuade]

I cringe every time I see the B word, hearing it is even worse.

[oldpotatoe]

I cringe every time I see the B word, hearing it is even worse.

??
Bisc Brakes?
Bubular?
Bubeless?
Bram?
Bru axle?
Bne by?

[Ken Robb]

I never liked DT shifters but I have loved some bar-end shifters.

[Black Dog]

You are all a bunch of hippies. Real riders put their shifters on the drive side chain stay. :)

https://www.bikeraceinfo.com/images-all/photo-galleries-images/images-derailleurs/Legnano-003.jpg

[Tony Edwards]

I am 49. I began my riding career with friction downtube shifters, but the overwhelming majority of my riding has been with Campy brifters (including 8-speed, 9-speed, 10-speed and 11-speed). In my view this is one instance in which the modern tech is just better. Safer, more ergonomic, more functional. I can understand why one might be agnostic between the two, but I can't understand how anyone would prefer DT shifters given the choice.

[FlashUNC]

I'd rather walk than use downtube shifters. Whatever floats your boat though.

[bicycletricycle]

For roughly the same reason people prefer

manual transmissions
cooking from scratch
old houses
etc.

In my bicycle rating system DT shifters are the "Safer, more ergonomic, more functional" choice.

I began my riding career with friction
downtube shifters, but the overwhelming majority of my riding has been with Campy brifters (including 8-speed, 9-speed, 10-speed and 11-speed). In my view this is one instance in which the modern tech is just better. Safer, more ergonomic, more functional. I can understand why one might be agnostic between the two, but I can't understand how anyone would prefer DT shifters given the choice.

[Tony Edwards]

For roughly the same reason people prefer

manual transmissions
cooking from scratch
old houses
etc.

In my bicycle rating system DT shifters are the "Safer, more ergonomic, more functional" choice.

I prefer all of those things. My favorite of my cars (an E46 M3) has a manual transmission, and I've only ever owned two cars, out of about 10, with automatics. I love cooking from scratch (I cook at least 95% of the time for my family), and live in a house built in 1905. I will never, ever prefer DT shifters. IMO that preference is more akin to saying you prefer to heat your home with a woodburning stove rather than a gas boiler or furnace, or that you prefer to wash your clothes on a washboard in a river rather than use a washer. To each his own, I guess, but this one is hard for me to wrap my mind around.

[jtbadge]

A lot of complaints across this forum about the cycling activities of "hipsters," but I can't think of anything that would qualify more directly than using downtube shifters in 2020.

[colker]

A lot of complaints across this forum about the cycling activities of "hipsters," but I can't think of anything that would qualify more directly than using downtube shifters in 2020.

Maybe... but i wellcome diversity especially when it´s diverse time frames colliding.

[mcteague]

I'd rather walk than use downtube shifters. Whatever floats your boat though.

Then you, sir, are NOT a bicyclist! :no:

Tim

[colker]

Reasons for DT shifters: i can mix whatever derrailleur to whatever shifter. Don´t need to worry about compatibility.

Less cable and cable hardware.

Easier to pack the bike and travel.

MOst of all: it makes you move on the bike so it´s better for your muscles. It makes you think and anticipate which is better for your brains.

[colker]

??
Bisc Brakes?
Bubular?
Bubeless?
Bram?
Bru axle?
Bne by?

Bubbalahnholo?

[Mark McM]

You are all a bunch of hippies. Real riders put their shifters on the drive side chain stay. :)

Pampered youngsters! Real riders use a single sprocket on each side of the wheel and flip the wheel around when they want to change gears!

https://www.beastybike.com/img/cms/guides/andre-leducq.jpg

[tv_vt]

I don't miss DT shifters at all.

If you ride by yourself a lot, they are fine. But for racing in a pack, forget it. Being able to keep both hands on the bar and shift in the middle of a swarming pack of riders was a priceless improvement to me.

They totally work, no issue there. And if you like them, no issue there either. But for me, brake-lever shifting has been a fantastic improvement in the cycling experience. And for the 'masses,' I think it's been a step forward, in pleasure and safety.

[cnighbor1]

Yes!

[FlashUNC]

Then you, sir, are NOT a bicyclist! :no:

Tim

Eh, I've been called worse.

[AngryScientist]

A lot of complaints across this forum about the cycling activities of "hipsters," but I can't think of anything that would qualify more directly than using downtube shifters in 2020.

i'm honestly not sure why you read this forum or post here at all.

if your opinion of the general membership here is so overwhelmingly negative, by all means - stop clicking.

[redir]

I agree with you, grew up and raced on them as well. Never had a problem and don't to this day, but if I had to choose between ergos or DTs I choose ergo. DT shifters also mean (in most cases) skinny old school brake levers, these never worked well with my XXL hands. No problem with anyone lovin DT shifters, just not for me with the options that now exist.

My over 50 (I'm 55) and 6' (I'm 6' 5") comment had to do with my more upright riding position relative to my racing days. At 6' 5" DT shifters are now about a mile away from my bars, down by that bottle thing (what's that for?). Look at Angry's picture, his are, what, maybe 8" away.

I got ya. Yeah it seems like in the old days the position was more upright so we spent more times in the drops and your hands were closer to the DT shifters. Now it seems that the drops are used less and riders prefer to have the hands on the hoods where everything from shifting to breaking is.

[merckx]

After awhile these discussions become pointless. When a line in the sand is drawn, the proponents will continue to say yes, the naysayers will continue to say no, and the agnostic will continue their descent to hell. As it should be. Just keep doing what allows you to leverage your body forward. That is what counts in the end, no?

A caveat to what I wrote earlier in the thread; if I continued to pin a number on, my machines(s) would be equipped with ergos full stop.

[Tony Edwards]

Reasons for DT shifters: i can mix whatever derrailleur to whatever shifter. Don´t need to worry about compatibility.

Less cable and cable hardware.

Easier to pack the bike and travel.

MOst of all: it makes you move on the bike so it´s better for your muscles. It makes you think and anticipate which is better for your brains.

Fair points I guess. In thinking about it, I was serious about mountain biking before I was serious on the road, so was used to indexed shifters (then, thumbshifters) on the bar, in an environment in which downtube shifters would be all but impossible to use safely and effectively. I do see that DT shifters are workable, but to me they seem like a huge functional step backwards from what I've been using for nearly 30 years.

[donevwil]

A tangential question:

Who's using DT shifters for 10 and/or 11 spd? Indexed or Friction? How does it work relative to the Hay Day of DT shifters (< 8spd?)?

[Mark McM]

Another tangential question:

Who started riding with brake/shifters, then much later switched to down tube shifters, and decided they prefer down tube shifters?

[AngryScientist]

Another tangential question:

Who started riding with brake/shifters, then much later switched to down tube shifters, and decided they prefer down tube shifters?

me

[bicycletricycle]

I am not claiming that liking manual transmissions means you will like DT shifters. I just meant that people have reasons for enjoying things that are their own. It is very hard to explain to some people why you would prefer a manual over a flappy paddle box in a sports car, it is worse in almost every measurable way, however, for those who prefer it is easy to understand.

to me-

Friction downtube shifters are aesthetically pleasing, clean up the bike (almost no derailleur housing), never need adjustment, almost never wear out, are cheap and easy to repair, let you run most derailleurs and cassettes, are fun to operate and make you change hand positions more often.

Why wouldn't I like them?



I prefer all of those things. My favorite of my cars (an E46 M3) has a manual transmission, and I've only ever owned two cars, out of about 10, with automatics. I love cooking from scratch (I cook at least 95% of the time for my family), and live in a house built in 1905. I will never, ever prefer DT shifters. IMO that preference is more akin to saying you prefer to heat your home with a woodburning stove rather than a gas boiler or furnace, or that you prefer to wash your clothes on a washboard in a river rather than use a washer. To each his own, I guess, but this one is hard for me to wrap my mind around.

[soulspinner]

No. Raced with it. Todays stuff is the poo to this old guy:p

[bicycletricycle]

I started with ergo on road bikes and trigger shifters on mountain bikes, I then switched to barend shifters, then DT shifters, then friction DT shifters. I use all of them on different bikes depending on their intended purpose but I just like DT shifters the most and use them unless it is just silly. Like on a mountain bike our something. I do still like friction thumb shifters on a mountain bike though.

I think it is because my riding style is just not that aggressive. I don't mind being slowed down a bit from missing a shift or being stuck in the wrong gear.

I prefer the simplicity of the system and enjoy the challenge of operating it well.



Another tangential question:

Who started riding with brake/shifters, then much later switched to down tube shifters, and decided they prefer down tube shifters?

[bicycletricycle]

I have a few bikes set up 10 or 11 with friction DT shifters. They are great.

My favorite set up is campy 10 rd, 11-32 ultegra 11 cassette, simplex retrofriction shifters. Smooth and easy to use, the only problem is that the shifter has to travel about 190 degrees to get to the largest cog on the cassette which means the tip of the shifter ends up pushing into the cable a little.

How does it work compared to 8 speed systems? indexed 8 speed systems had a really nice chunky clunk- clunk- clunk feel during shifts that I liked a lot but I think a lot of people prefer the whisper fast quiet and smoth shifting of todays systems so I guess it just depends.

friction 10/11 systems can be hard to use for the unskilled, they have less tolerance for misalignment and are more likely to try to shift themselves or make rubbing noises .


A tangential question:

Who's using DT shifters for 10 and/or 11 spd? Indexed or Friction? How does it work relative to the Hay Day of DT shifters (< 8spd?)?

[merckx]

A tangential question:

Who's using DT shifters for 10 and/or 11 spd? Indexed or Friction? How does it work relative to the Hay Day of DT shifters (< 8spd?)?

I use 9v and 10v indexed Campag DT shifters.

[andrew+]

I prefer riding with DT shifters, but the inability to shift while standing is usually enough to make me reach for my ergo-equipped bike when I want to ride quickly, especially when riding with friends.

[FriarQuade]

??
Bisc Brakes?
Bubular?
Bubeless?
Bram?
Bru axle?
Bne by?

BRIFTER, just make it stop already.

[HTupolev]

BRIFTER, just make it stop already.
I don't understand why people get worked up over the term. All of the alternatives are either manufacturer-specific or lack a convenient abbreviation. "Brifter" sounds a little goofy, but it's intelligible, concise, and rolls off the tongue.

[Louis]

Pampered youngsters! Real riders use a single sprocket on each side of the wheel and flip the wheel around when they want to change gears!

TWO gears? What a luxury - you might as well have someone push you up the hills.

Real cyclists only use one.

[HTupolev]

TWO gears? What a luxury - you might as well have someone push you up the hills.

Real cyclists only use one.
ONE gear? What a luxury - real cyclists win world championships with zero (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ryQOiX05k).

[smead]

I prefer riding with DT shifters, but the inability to shift while standing is usually enough to make me reach for my ergo-equipped bike when I want to ride quickly, especially when riding with friends.

That is so ridiculous. Anyone with a DT shifting setup that cannot climb well standing or ride safely in a group is a stooge. Brifters won't help.

[HTupolev]

That is so ridiculous. Anyone with a DT shifting setup that cannot climb well standing or ride safely in a group is a stooge. Brifters won't help.
andrew+ didn't say they couldn't climb standing, they said that it wasn't practical to use DT shifters while standing.

[jr59]

A tangential question:

Who's using DT shifters for 10 and/or 11 spd? Indexed or Friction? How does it work relative to the Hay Day of DT shifters (< 8spd?)?

10 speed indexed DT for me. I like them. I took off my 10 speed brifters for them. The brifters worked fine, very well in fact, but I wanted DTs on it. To me, it makes me a better bike rider.

[soulspinner]

Another tangential question:

Who started riding with brake/shifters, then much later switched to down tube shifters, and decided they prefer down tube shifters?

Nobody that likes practicality.

[charliedid]

A lot of complaints across this forum about the cycling activities of "hipsters," but I can't think of anything that would qualify more directly than using downtube shifters in 2020.

I think I'm gonna roll like I did in 1995 with a 7400 DT front shifter and a 7400 rear BRIFTER and school all the kids around here.

I mean I'm not gonna but I could :)

Todays hipsters...

[djg]

So . . . I mean, yeah, I'm 59, and I got my first "10-speed" (which actually had 10 speeds) in 1973, and I enjoyed riding that bike, and the next one, and the next . . . a bit of touring in high school, and started racing on another bike junior year in college, and I liked riding all those bikes with downtube shifters. I really enjoyed it, if "really" really adds anything.

I'm not going back, mind you. But riding with DT shifters is riding.

[Louis]

ONE gear? What a luxury - real cyclists win world championships with zero (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ryQOiX05k).

I saw him pedal a few times at the start... ;)

[fiamme red]

BRIFTER, just make it stop already.It's certainly no worse (and used much less often) than "Brexit."

Besides, it has the approval of the late, great Sheldon Brown. He posted this on the rec.bicycles.tech newsgroup:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.bicycles.tech/nTxxXNu_iP8/3ka76Q6V088J

I opined:

"Stamp Out The Silly, Obfuscating Jargon 'DS' & 'NDS'"

Stella Hackell zinged:

> > Says the man who wants to call brake-shift levers "brifters."

"Brifter" is a new name for a new device. I'm not particulary promoting
it but I rather like it and will continue to use it. In the photography
world there are sticklers who say "bleach/fix" but most prefer to refer
to the chemical as "blix."

NDS & DS, on the other hand, are substitutes for the good old
Anglo-Saxon words "left" and "right", and serve no function but to
confuse those who haven't learned that particular bit of jargon.

I am fairly knowledgeable and experienced in bicycle matters, but I was
utterly baffled the first time I encountered these foolish abbreviations
in this very newsgroup.

Bruce Frech wrote:
>
> Ah, but brifter is a word that is a combination of three words. DS is not a
> word, but an acronym.
>
> And brifter owes it's origin to me, not Sheldon.

Cool! I didn't know that! I'll add this attribution to the entry in my
Bicycle Glossary.

It's quite gratifying to add a useful term to the language. I take
credit for "stokid" and for the spelling "derailer." Although I
invented the gain ratio system, that term was proposed by my friend
Osman Isvan.

http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer.html
http://sheldonbrown.com/gain.html

Sheldon "Fun With Words" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the |
| unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world |
| to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the |
| unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

[oldpotatoe]

A tangential question:

Who's using DT shifters for 10 and/or 11 spd? Indexed or Friction? How does it work relative to the Hay Day of DT shifters (< 8spd?)?

I just put together a guys bike, 2 actually. One is 7s freewheel and triple, big barrel Campag retro friction shifters and the other a double, 10s, Campag DT index shifters..they both work really great but yup..friction and say 10/11/12(?s and stuff is pretty close together and making clean, no noise shifts can be a challenge. For my Moots, 6s freewheel friction, I use a 9s chain..great shifting and it doesn't have to be perfect to not make noise. 10s works as well but more $..

[Andreas]

After awhile these discussions become pointless. When a line in the sand is drawn, the proponents will continue to say yes, the naysayers will continue to say no, and the agnostic will continue their descent to hell. As it should be. Just keep doing what allows you to leverage your body forward. That is what counts in the end, no?

A caveat to what I wrote earlier in the thread; if I continued to pin a number on, my machines(s) would be equipped with ergos full stop.

+1

and simplex tear drop shifters

[zmalwo]

for mechanical shifters, I really really prefer the DT shifter for front derailleur because it's so much more reliable, adjustable, and you never drop your chain since there's no spring to knock the chain down. for the rear, I prefer hood shifters.

[oldpotatoe]

That is so ridiculous. Anyone with a DT shifting setup that cannot climb well standing or ride safely in a group is a stooge. Brifters won't help.

Of course..lever mounted shifting is great for
-MTB
-Beginners
-Racing, only cuz they ALL gots it.

But any kind of 'essential? Nope. Firmly in the 'nice to have' category with advantages and disadvantages..kinda like wet disc brakes...:eek:

[andrew+]

That is so ridiculous. Anyone with a DT shifting setup that cannot climb well standing or ride safely in a group is a stooge. Brifters won't help.

Just to be clear, this person completely misread my post.

[dddd]

Just to be clear, this person completely misread my post.

I think that we all noticed that!

(Well, at least me, and having ridden with DT friction levers in the past 24 hours)

I split my friction-shifting rides between 6s and 7s setups, the wider spacing does tend to make shifting more forgiving, offering a wider"window" of lever movement within which all is quiet following a shift.
I've had some great 7s friction setups though, using Suntour or Huret Duopar derailers that manage to hug the cassette with a minimal chain gap across the entire range. Such a slick setup is a pleasure to operate even under the most challenging/sporting conditions.

Everything from cable-path slickness to the particular combination of DT levers, derailer, chain and freewheel (including chain length and freewheel size) plays a part in determining if a great-shifting setup results. It's like magic when it does!

[jemdet]

I think I'm gonna roll like I did in 1995 with a 7400 DT front shifter and a 7400 rear BRIFTER and school all the kids around here.

I mean I'm not gonna but I could :)

Todays hipsters...

I use a left-hand DT shifter even with ergo / STI rear... infinite trim and lower weight to boot :)

[superbowlpats]

Funny how this has devolved into the same depths of tubular vs clincher, bibs vs shorts...I never want to take my hands off the hoods since technology affords me the chance to keep them where they belong. but then again I almost turned around mid ride the other day when the battery to my powermeter died. I could barely turn the cranks knowing my TSS would be screwed up with no power recording. I guess I'm a slave to tech/data. but I ride to get faster, to race faster despite being 60. But its all good - riding any bike any way is good. :hello:

[charliedid]

I use a left-hand DT shifter even with ergo / STI rear... infinite trim and lower weight to boot :)

Uh oh! :banana:

[oldpotatoe]

Uh oh! :banana:

Pantani did it too...:)

[colker]

Those yellow tubulars.. hmmm.

[eric01]

Out of curiosity I googled the weights of modern day components vs a brake lever/down tube shifter

Dura ace 9100 sti - 365g pair
Dura ace 7400 brake lever - 216g pair
Dura ace 7400 down tube shifter - 67g pair

So with modern 9100 setup, saving roughly 40g. And that’s without downtube braze on hardware.

Old 7400 sti levers were 480 grams so savings would be bigger back then

[jemdet]

Out of curiosity I googled the weights of modern day components vs a brake lever/down tube shifter

Dura ace 9100 sti - 365g pair
Dura ace 7400 brake lever - 216g pair
Dura ace 7400 down tube shifter - 67g pair

So with modern 9100 setup, saving roughly 40g. And that’s without downtube braze on hardware.

Old 7400 sti levers were 480 grams so savings would be bigger back then

You're right, and the campy carbon stuff is light enough that it doesn't make a big difference. I will note that you also save the weight of some housing and cable. It may be minimal, but it's still something!

I'd probably take downtube front shifting even at the same weight.

[jemdet]

Pantani did it too...:)

So did Andy!

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9NsAAOSw7p1axf40/s-l1600.jpg