OT: BMW 328 circa 2015 or 2016

[old fat man]

Interested in feedback on owning a 328 x drive beyond the warranty period. I'm eyeing a 2016 with 44k miles and about 16 months of warranty as a certified pre-owned. What have people experienced as far as maintenance costs as you approach 100k miles and beyond?

The other option is a new VW alltrack lease. Not as sexy, but less concern about unknown costs.

[AngryScientist]

what engine is in there?

[GScot]

The four cylinder BMW has more problems than just about any other German car engine. At least related to the timing chain and when that pops up you're looking at another engine. Not that it's high probability but it has happened to at least one other member here. If you get a BMW you should buy one with a straight six anyway :). And since I don't have company statistics I don't know how common the problem is, happens enough that enthusiasts all know about it but rare enough that BMW keeps revising the engine to eliminate the problem. 2015 is I believe the transition period where the problem was being reduced and 2016 even more unlikely.

Unless you have a real reason for AWD the rear wheel drive cars are preferred from a mechanics and a handling performance POV. If I want AWD I'd get an Audi. That said their 2.0 4 cylinder had some oil burning issues but they covered it under warranty and seem to have been good since about 2013.

[AngryScientist]

ah, a turbo 4 AWD BMW.

haha, basically nothing that makes a BMW iconic and good.

i'm a huge bimmer fan, but real BMWs have I6 NA engines and RWD.

i'd pass!

[tv_vt]

Well, I actually own a 2015 328xi and have had zero issues with it. Mileage, HP and torque is better in the 4 vs the old 6 cyl. Bought mine CPO with low miles, only have 40k on it now, but all good so far. Nicest car I've owned.

I think if you've been a fanboy for decades, the cars are not what they used to be. Since I don't have that history, I can't get to complain they're not what real BMW's should be, etc.

[GScot]

And to address the maintenance question you should plan to be a stickler about on time doing the extras when an opportunity comes up. If you diy they are one of the cheaper brands/cycle because there are many competitors online offering great prices on consumables and the same can be said for unplanned maintenance like a water pump or wheel bearing. If you use a dealer $$$$ and if you use a good independent cost can be similar to any other brand but probably a little more.

Some of the German car tax is increased maintenance frequency and the rest is higher prices for labor on service. You could probably buy an accord at 44k and do nothing but oil changes until 100k. A BMW is going to need at least a full brake job and probably a front brake service in that time on top of fluids.

[GScot]

ah, a turbo 4 AWD BMW.

haha, basically nothing that makes a BMW iconic and good.

i'm a huge bimmer fan, but real BMWs have I6 NA engines and RWD.

i'd pass!


:beer:

[ftf]

My experience with german vehicles is I wouldn't own one, let alone one without a warranty.

[old fat man]

Gscot - I'm replacing a low mileage 2007 Avant that's been a maintenance nightmare (bought used). Fun to drive, but cringe worthy every time check engine light comes on. Part of why I'm gun shy on the BMW knowing I could be back in the same spot 3 years, 40k miles from now. I think I'm trying to talk myself into the 328 as opposed to out of it right now. I know it'll be fun to drive, but not ready to accept the same high cost of ownership I've had with this B7 Avant.

AWD or FWD with quality snow tires required as I drive in snow often.

[coreyaugustus]

ah, a turbo 4 AWD BMW.

haha, basically nothing that makes a BMW iconic and good.

i'm a huge bimmer fan, but real BMWs have I6 NA engines and RWD.

i'd pass!

All that and a manual transmission.

[lhuerta]

I am at 35K on my 2015 (purchased CPO @ 15K). So far it has needed new front brakes/rotors, valve cover gasket and frt window regulators (all covered under warranty...would have amounted to over $3K out of pocket), otherwise all is good. I plan on socking away at least $1000 annually for maintenance along the way. Yes 4 cylinder turbo not as silky as I6, but just as powerful and very torque-y, also mpg is amazing....37-38 mpg on highway (avg 75mph). Yes, there is a known timing chain issue but BMW has extended warranty to 7yr/70K and ending class action (decision due in few weeks) will likely further extend coverage. Also, if you find SULEV vehicle (N26 engine) and live/register in specific states, warranty on many big ticket parts is extended to 15yr/150K.

See more info here:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1614899

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1225865

Use the CP) search tool to find best deals in your region:
http://cpo.bmwusa.com

[AngryScientist]

All that and a manual transmission.

correct-a-mundo!

M-sport suspension is good too!

[Gummee]

ah, a turbo 4 AWD BMW.

haha, basically nothing that makes a BMW iconic and good.

i'm a huge bimmer fan, but real BMWs have I6 NA engines and RWD.

i'd pass!I've got one of the 2.... My X3 is AWD, but it does have the NA I6

Personal opinion: the last driver's BMW was the E46 (to 2006) series. As an added bonus, they're very inexpensive to buy these days. May not be as inexpensive to repair as say a Ford Focus, but they drive much much nicer.

M

[GScot]

Gscot - I'm replacing a low mileage 2007 Avant that's been a maintenance nightmare (bought used). Fun to drive, but cringe worthy every time check engine light comes on. Part of why I'm gun shy on the BMW knowing I could be back in the same spot 3 years, 40k miles from now. I think I'm trying to talk myself into the 328 as opposed to out of it right now. I know it'll be fun to drive, but not ready to accept the same high cost of ownership I've had with this B7 Avant.

AWD or FWD with quality snow tires required as I drive in snow often.

Let's see if I can guess on that Avant. If it is an A4 2.0 you oil leaks, oil consumption, timing issues, and water pump/thermostat problems to deal with. If it was an S4 you oil leaks, wheel bearings, water pump, and maybe even a noisy timing chain. But if it is an A6 with 3.2 I suppose you'd have the above problems plus carbon build up in the intake ports.

I have an S5 with the 4.2 and while I'd say it has been reliable and good to us I have seen a lot of its insides. Compressor for the A/C required dropping the front subframe while supporting the engine from above. In reality not really a big deal and I did it in a couple days part time in the garage but I could see a shop charging 2500 bucks just to start that job.

Good luck on your adventure.

[Straz]

Owner of a 2015 328d with 87k. Commute 600 miles/week. Other than the EGR Cooler failing (fortunately covered under a recall), I have not had any issues.

This is my first BMW, bought CPO two years ago and am still trying to adjust to the maintenance antics at the dealerships. A $35 cabin air filter and 15 minutes of my time is $150 to be done at the dealer.

OP mentions driving in the snow. I have driven many AWD/4WD/FWD vehicles with all-season/snow/studded tires and will comment this BMW with snow tires is the best handling/performing vehicle I've driven in the snow. I have a 15% driveway that I have no issue climbing with this vehicle with 8"+ of snow on the ground. That alone justifies ownership for me.

[mtechnica]

All that and a manual transmission.

You guys have described my 1999 M3 which is in fact a “real” BMW :banana::banana:

[old fat man]

Let's see if I can guess on that Avant. If it is an A4 2.0 you oil leaks, oil consumption, timing issues, and water pump/thermostat problems to deal with. If it was an S4 you oil leaks, wheel bearings, water pump, and maybe even a noisy timing chain. But if it is an A6 with 3.2 I suppose you'd have the above problems plus carbon build up in the intake ports.

I have an S5 with the 4.2 and while I'd say it has been reliable and good to us I have seen a lot of its insides. Compressor for the A/C required dropping the front subframe while supporting the engine from above. In reality not really a big deal and I did it in a couple days part time in the garage but I could see a shop charging 2500 bucks just to start that job.

Good luck on your adventure.

2.0 A4 automatic. Dealer replaced water pump shortly after I bought it under their warranty, thankfully. All in the dealer covered about $2500 in work within first 3 months. Should have been a red flag for me to jump ship but it ran issue free for nearly a year after that. Now facing engine mounts for $1k, 100k service for another $1k, and BMW dealer says it's leaking a bit of oil when they assessed value for trade in. Also some gremlins that cause it not to start, requiring a minute or two of waiting to try again (minor issue to me). Sad because I've driven Audi's for nearly 20 years (5000, S6, now this Avant). Can't afford an allroad and stretching myself with the potential 328 wagon. I just love the drive of these German vehicles and the practicality of the wagon

[BigDaddySmooth]

You guys have described my 1999 M3 which is in fact a “real” BMW :banana::banana:

This my friends, is a man amongst men!

[Ken Robb]

I was a long-time BMW lover starting with my 1985 535i. My 2004 330i ZHP was my last. This was partly because of the expense of "normal" maintenance and partly because other makers had improved their cars so much that BMWs were no longer FAR ahead in driving dynamics and pleasure.

I replaced my 330i with a 2007 MINI Cooper S which allowed me room in our double garage for a Ducati and 11 bicycles besides our MINI and Mazda 3. The MINI was fun and quite reliable until last year when it started making engine and manual transmission/clutch noises that MIGHT have been harbingers of $4,000 repairs to clutch and cam chain and tensioner.

I traded it for a 2019 Civic Si which I love. It drives like the BMWs that I loved but I was out-the-door for a bit over $24,000 including 8.5% sales tax and about $400 registration fee.

I have only done one oil/filter change and tire rotation for about $100 but I anticipate much lower ongoing maintenance/repair costs than I would have with ANY German car. Oh yeah: 31.6 MPG on premium gas since Day One.

I would suggest anyone considering a used German car, especially one with a manual transmission, try a test drive in a Civic Si.

[wallymann]

i've been driving pre-owned BMW 5-series since 2010. bmw straight-6 engines are awesome and the xdrive systems are rock solid. but normal maintenance $$$ on a bmw is something you should budget for annually, it is not like a honda or toyota.

started with a 2007 e60 xdrive and just changed to a 2010 e60-lci xdrive. both were purchased with about 40K on the clocks as yours and neither came with a CPO warranty (just inspected).

my suggestion is, after the CPO period, find a reputable independent BMW shop to do your work and get to know them. you can save serious bank -- like half, compared to the dealership's service department.

once you do that i'd say: stick to the scheduled/diagnostic maintenance. once you cross 115K miles some bigger ticket items will start to need addressing so thats when you may want to consider moving on as the costs really start to add up. or if you're really into major DIY car maintenance the high-mileage service/maintenance issues are less of a deal-breaker.

as long as you do the maintenance and garage your vehicle regularly (if you're in a northern climate) it will serve you for many years until things just start wearing out.

Interested in feedback on owning a 328 x drive beyond the warranty period. I'm eyeing a 2016 with 44k miles and about 16 months of warranty as a certified pre-owned. What have people experienced as far as maintenance costs as you approach 100k miles and beyond?

The other option is a new VW alltrack lease. Not as sexy, but less concern about unknown costs.

[ChainNoise]

2.0 A4 automatic. Dealer replaced water pump shortly after I bought it under their warranty, thankfully. All in the dealer covered about $2500 in work within first 3 months. Should have been a red flag for me to jump ship but it ran issue free for nearly a year after that. Now facing engine mounts for $1k, 100k service for another $1k, and BMW dealer says it's leaking a bit of oil when they assessed value for trade in. Also some gremlins that cause it not to start, requiring a minute or two of waiting to try again (minor issue to me). Sad because I've driven Audi's for nearly 20 years (5000, S6, now this Avant). Can't afford an allroad and stretching myself with the potential 328 wagon. I just love the drive of these German vehicles and the practicality of the wagon

We've bought our 2007 A4 2.0TQ Tip in 2012 with 48k miles, no warranty. It's been about the best car we've had. It has 120k miles now. Only things we've had to do so far are:

-every ~5k oil/filter changes
-timing belt, water pump, serp belt, solid rubber motor mount, ign coils done at 79k in 2016 ($450 + price of the mount, I forget how much, done by a friend/Audi tech on the side)
-pads/rotors at 85k
-valve cover, valve cover gasket, pcv, n80 done at 117k
-exhaust flex pipe, and OEM clamp replaced (both were leaking) 118k

Valve cover/gasket and flex pipe/clamp was done at a local exhaust shop for $500 because I didn't feel like doing it myself at the time.

We also "inherited" a 2013 535 xdrive with most options. While we love the car, parts are far more expensive than what we are used to with Audi/vw. Not sure I will buy a BMW, but they are awesome.

[dgauthier]

My experience with german vehicles is I wouldn't own one, let alone one without a warranty.

We had a 1998 Mercedes C280 until it was replaced with a 2017 Lexus GS 350. The Lexus is a lot of car and one of the most reliable vehicles on the road. The Mercedes was average reliability and expensive to maintain, and a lesser car overall.

I miss that damn Mercedes. It wasn't perfect, but it was like a faithful dog.

I've never owned a BMW, but I imagine it has a similarly distinctive, though different, personality.

[ChainNoise]

Let's see if I can guess on that Avant. If it is an A4 2.0 you oil leaks, oil consumption, timing issues, and water pump/thermostat problems to deal with. If it was an S4 you oil leaks, wheel bearings, water pump, and maybe even a noisy timing chain. But if it is an A6 with 3.2 I suppose you'd have the above problems plus carbon build up in the intake ports.

I have an S5 with the 4.2 and while I'd say it has been reliable and good to us I have seen a lot of its insides. Compressor for the A/C required dropping the front subframe while supporting the engine from above. In reality not really a big deal and I did it in a couple days part time in the garage but I could see a shop charging 2500 bucks just to start that job.

Good luck on your adventure.

There's some misinformation regarding the 2.0T. His year 2.0T was just the FSI, not TFSI. The TFSI had the faulty cam chain tensioner I believe. Nothing like that with the FSI. The FSI had a huge issue with HPFP cam followers and intake camshafts that the follower rides on. It would self destruct the top end at the very least when the follower wore through. Being a DI engine, it also suffers from carbon buildup. All DI engines without a fuel injector(s) in the intake manifold will suffer from carbon buildup.

[Ralph]

My son drives a 3 series coupe...last year of the straight six. It's a very fun car to drive. He loves it. I have no desire to own one....but if I did want to own one....don't see any reason not to drive one. I would want a 5 series though....without so many options.

it does spend a lot of time in the shop (I have to pick him up) ....stuff that just shouldn't be an issue on modern vehicles. Last one was an oil leak that caused it to throw the belt. On the other hand....he takes it to an independent garage....and says while the parts cost a little more, labor is labor at his shop….no matter the vehicle.

All vehicles cost a lot to maintain these days. My wife's 2012 Ford Edge with 3.5 V6. Ford dealer wants $450 to change the plugs. back ones hard to get to...have to take a bunch of stuff off to access them. So....don't know that that BMW repairs are that much more than others.....expcept that wife's Ford doesn't need many repairs.

I usually drive an old Mercury Milan (handed down from Mother in law). Ford dealership wanted $2100 to fix ABS system....and independent garages don't want to fix that. So nothing cheap to fix these days.

[Likes2ridefar]

Last service I needed spark plugs on a 2017 BMW X3 x drive. It wasn’t much more than the Ford just mentioned. I think it was 550. Wiper blades were 65 for just the front, I think :confused:

My previous had the maintenance included so consider that..it added a small amount each month but I easily got my $ worth. Some CPOs have it included, others like my current don’t.

[summilux]

real BMWs have I6 NA engines and RWD.

You forgot hydraulic steering and 6MT!:)

Having had an '07 328i, I used to agree with you. But I've been driving an F80 M3 for two years now and I'm very happy with my turbo 6. I can't detect any lag and the throttle response is linear. If I wasn't listening for the turbo whine, it feels just like NA. And there is massive low-end torque. The turbo 4 cylinders that I have driven as loaners have been unresponsive and had a generally crappy econo rental car feel about them but you owe it to yourself to at least try out a turbo 6 or 8 cylinder BMW. Electric steering takes some of the BMW goodness out of them but everything else is great.

[eddief]

for how many years have owners been replacing BMW window regulators?

[Ken Robb]

for how many years have owners been replacing BMW window regulators?
At least 28 in my experience. It's a crappy little piece of plastic that fails and I can't see any mechanical reason it couldn't be made of metal and last forever.

[Ralph]

I was a long-time BMW lover starting with my 1985 535i. My 2004 330i ZHP was my last. This was partly because of the expense of "normal" maintenance and partly because other makers had improved their cars so much that BMWs were no longer FAR ahead in driving dynamics and pleasure.

I replaced my 330i with a 2007 MINI Cooper S which allowed me room in our double garage for a Ducati and 11 bicycles besides our MINI and Mazda 3. The MINI was fun and quite reliable until last year when it started making engine and manual transmission/clutch noises that MIGHT have been harbingers of $4,000 repairs to clutch and cam chain and tensioner.

I traded it for a 2019 Civic Si which I love. It drives like the BMWs that I loved but I was out-the-door for a bit over $24,000 including 8.5% sales tax and about $400 registration fee.

I have only done one oil/filter change and tire rotation for about $100 but I anticipate much lower ongoing maintenance/repair costs than I would have with ANY German car. Oh yeah: 31.6 MPG on premium gas since Day One.

I would suggest anyone considering a used German car, especially one with a manual transmission, try a test drive in a Civic Si.

What I think also....other vehicles have caught up....with cheaper maintenance, better reliability, and better resale value. Besides....driving hi performance vehicles aggressively not "cool" anymore. There is no where around where I live where you can drive that way. Great seats more important to me now.

[AngryScientist]

bimmer loooooooove

-6MT - check
-NA I6 - check
-M-Sport suspension - check
-trap doors in the roof for racks - check

one other thing to note, which i find annoying....

modern BMW's, for the most part have all gone to run flat tires, and no provisions for a spare. this is not acceptable for me who is frequently pretty far "out there" and away from help. i carry a full sized spare in my trunk, but it takes up quite a bit of room.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qPYINFcsY5w/UY12km2St_I/AAAAAAAABLI/kQ7LlXbJa7M/s1200/IMG_0819.JPG

[jamesdak]

Bimmer lover since my first.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/110436221.jpg

As I've said before. I just haven't experienced all the maintenance gloom and doom other talk about with Bimmers. My 300ci ZHP was pretty much trouble free except for a small initial oil leak each spring after winter storage. One area of the valve cover would leak each time I'd fire it up for the first time. Fixed it myself for around $90 the second spring it happened. Other than that it was just normal oil changes and such that I did myself.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/111010031.jpg

Last year I picked up a 2016 340i M-Sport with only 10,000 miles. CPO car so it's all covered for another couple of years. Not too worried about maintenance myself. Will use an independent shop if something does come up later since the dealership is crazy expensive and far away.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/169251661.jpg

I have to admit that the 8 speed auto tranny on this is so good I don't mess the manual. Like mentioned above, ton of torque and no noticeable turbo lag with the twin scroll turbo on this inline 6. The engine is just a beast and obviously making more power than BMW states. I am not a fan of the electric steering, it is the only knock against the care.

The run flats on it aren't terrible but I can't wait to burn through them so I can put some Michelin Pilots on it. Not worried about no spare as I can't remember the last time I got a flat on the road. I've been carrying AAA forever so that's my "flat" replacement plan if it ever comes up.

Now if you want to talk to me about maintenance issues lets talk about all the Chrysler products I have over the years. Talk about maintenance hogs...

[Ozz]

...one other thing to note, which i find annoying....

modern BMW's, for the most part have all gone to run flat tires, and no provisions for a spare. this is not acceptable for me who is frequently pretty far "out there" and away from help. i carry a full sized spare in my trunk, but it takes up quite a bit of room.

+1

Considering this (and AAA) and going to regular tires when time to replace the run-flats.:cool:

Jamesdak = +1 on the 8sp transmission (N55 engine with ZF8HP trans on my X5).

[Jeckel30]

I just went through this on deciding on an x3 xDrive28i vs the xDrive35i. The 28i is fairly reliable as long as you are 2015+ that got the timing chain guide update. Overall I ended up with the 35i due to the power upgrade.

I also am a BMW fan and currently own a 74 2002 and a 96 M3.

[jamesdak]

I just went through this on deciding on an x3 xDrive28i vs the xDrive35i. The 28i is fairly reliable as long as you are 2015+ that got the timing chain guide update. Overall I ended up with the 35i due to the power upgrade.

I also am a BMW fan and currently own a 74 2002 and a 96 M3.

WOW, the 2002 is gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeckel30]

WOW, the 2002 is gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks! Judging by the pic of your 340i I am not too far away. I am down in Kaysville.

[clyde the point]

Def not in the intention of this thread, but reading these posts makes me all the more grateful for my ‘10 Highlander with 214k has needed only tires brakes oil and fluid changes. No oil use between changes and runs great. One battery change.

[Ken Robb]

What I think also....other vehicles have caught up....with cheaper maintenance, better reliability, and better resale value. Besides....driving hi performance vehicles aggressively not "cool" anymore. There is no where around where I live where you can drive that way. Great seats more important to me now.

My wife and I BOTH love the seats in the Si. They are pretty heavily bolstered so the only negative is getting out over the bolster when I'm in a tight space and can't open the door very wide. They are manual and heated but I don't mind that at all. I found a good position on my demo drive and haven't changed it since. :)

[yinzerniner]

Interested in feedback on owning a 328 x drive beyond the warranty period. I'm eyeing a 2016 with 44k miles and about 16 months of warranty as a certified pre-owned. What have people experienced as far as maintenance costs as you approach 100k miles and beyond?

The other option is a new VW alltrack lease. Not as sexy, but less concern about unknown costs.

ah, a turbo 4 AWD BMW.

haha, basically nothing that makes a BMW iconic and good.

i'm a huge bimmer fan, but real BMWs have I6 NA engines and RWD.

i'd pass!

To note - from the F series on (~2012 for the 3 and 2/1) BMW switched to EPS (electronic power steering) which killed all the feedback and feel. As a very happy two time owner (E46 M3 convertible manual, E92 335i RWD Auto) that switch killed the allure. The newest gen EPS is supposedly a marked improvement, but from the ones I've driven they still don't offer enough to differentiate from the steering feel of very good FWD cars.

As others noted, from 0-100K maintenance isn't too bad, mostly because it's taken care of to 60K for new cars and up to 100K if you purchase the extended warranty. After that, maintenance isn't that often but it is pricey.

Run flats are a bane to driving enjoyment, as are low profile tires. Unless you MUST have that dope-ass bling-bling rubber band tire look, stick to 45 or above profile tires. Also carry a flat kit and you should be good to go. When I first got the E92 it had something like 35 profile tires on 19s on it and I flatted all the time - no bueno at ~$300 a pop for new RFTs.

The newest gen BMWs do get pretty amazing gas mileage, and are comfy with good pep. But at this point the premium is almost purely for the badge as the performance, handling and feel really doesn't justify the "sport sedan" moniker.

It's a very nice car, but depends on the priorities as to whether the badge tax is really worth what you'll be using it for.

[jamesdak]

Thanks! Judging by the pic of your 340i I am not too far away. I am down in Kaysville.

Lol, howdy neighbor. Yep, I live by where I shot that. Great area for bike riding too!

[MerckxMad]

I own a 2004 Z4 with 95k on the clock and a 2006 X3 with 135k on its clock. The Z was purchased off a corner lot and the X was a CPO. The I6 engines are awesome as long as they are maintained. The sensors and electrics are another matter entirely. You need a good OBD reader and Indy shop to keep up with never ending glitches and codes. I leased 2013 and 2015 328 x drives with I4s and run flats. Those I would not consider buying. I miss the extra cylinders and silky transmissions. Plus, the RFTs suck.

Strange thing is I also own two Jettas and find that those 4 bangers are fine for my daily driving.

[Gummee]

Strange thing is I also own two Jettas and find that those 4 bangers are fine for my daily driving.I have a buddy with an 84 230TE (2.3l 4-banger euro model) with a 4-speed manual!

...speaking of 4-bangers...

Thinking about it.

It'll need TLC, but the things are supposed to run darn near forever. The little 4 with the manual may make it actually drive able.

M