OT: Woodworking cyclists here? Dust collection question!

[a4racer]

Okay, this question is truly OT, but given the expertise and scope of the members here on the PL, I figured I'd likely get a better response, and more learned response than in some other forums!

I'm a hobby woodworker, and am getting more into it. I'll always be an amateur, but I love it. It is 180 degrees from what I do as a career, and perhaps that's why I enjoy it. I'm lucky to have a good sized garage (and with plenty of driveway space, no need to park a car inside). I'd like to expand my woodworking space in the garage, but also don't want to coat everything in there with a fine particulate dust everytime I use a power tool, for instance. My bikes / bike stands / bike workshop area is also in the garage, so I want to be able to keep that area clean and sawdust free...

Does anyone here have experience with those fancy dust collection systems for woodworking shops? Are they highly effective at keeping the dust down from power tools? I could, in theory, throw up a stud wall and enclose the bike area, but I prefer a nice open garage if at all possible...

Your experience / advice / suggestions are sought!

Thanks in advance PL!

[NHAero]

I don't know much about the specific design and specification, but at work we have a 4 person cabinetmaking shop and it's remarkably clean. Ducts connect to all the machines and the air is sucked through large trash can sized filters. So I think a key element would be to ensure that the machinery you buy has collection ports for such a system.
I'm sure there are others with more specific info.

[benb]

I went to a guitar factory last year and it was absolutely immaculate... they had a massive dust collection system plumbed through the entire factory.

All the cutting/sanding/CNC happened in enclosed spaces that were hooked up to the system. Outside everything got collected where it could go right into trucks. Not doing that in a factory would be a health & fire hazard and would probably raise hell on finish work.

At home I just rely on the dust collection on my sander (which works really well)... for everything else it goes flying and I wear a mask.

I've done a couple projects a year the last few years, nothing serious. It makes a mess, for sure the dust collection systems work, if it was a huge hobby for me I'd be doing something.

Almost all the woods can harm you over time if you don't take care. Allergic reactions, lung damage, whatever. And it seems like sometimes the nicer the wood the more it can be bad! (Mahogany, Rosewood, Ebony, etc..)

[windsurfer]

Have a Clearview in the shop. Does a very good job with tools that lend themselves to collection. Main reason for this is to keep fine dust out of my lungs, not deal with nuisance dust. Still throw some chips around when ripping -some day I will put in overhead collection to deal with this. A good collector is key, my old two bag delta could not keep up with big dust producers like the thickness sander and coated everything with fine dust.

You still need to deal with dust and chips from hand-held tools. Router is the worst as many Sanders do a reasonable job of collection when connected to a good vacuum.

[KarlC]

We use festools to collect all of our dust, most of our work is done in the field, the key is to collect the dust at the source and not let it get airborne.

www.festoolusa.com


.

[redir]

I've been building guitars now for 25+ years and what I do 90% of the time that I need to make sawdust is do it outside! Nothing like mother nature to filter the dust for you and keep you healthy.

The other 10% of the time, since we do get 10deg days here in Virginia, I use one of these point source devices: https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/home/116-cv06-mini-system.html

It works amazingly well. I have a bandsaw that gets a lot of use, a belt sander, a drum sander and a downdraft table. When ever I need to use any one of those tools the vacuum comes over and plugs into the port and I run it while sanding. IT doesn't work very well on a belt sander becasue those things just trow dust all over the place but the other tools it sucks everything out.

I would highly recommend this for a small shop.

I also have an over head filter that takes out the larger stuff that might be floating in the air: https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Hanging-Air-Filter-3-Speed/G0738?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5vnt19ic5wIVg5OzCh1rvgWkEA QYASABEgKA-fD_BwE

Those can be modified for true HEPA filters which I might do some day.

[Ruckusdog]

I do a lot of woodworking and really believe in dust collection. It saves my lungs from all sorts of small particles. I use a Festool vacuum system with my small tools like hand held router, sander, etc. It’s an expensive, but superbly designed system that hasn’t given me a problem in 18 years. I use an Oneida Systems larger system for my larger stationary tools like tablesaw, bandsaw and planer. It’s connected to each tool with flexible ducting and appears to remove about 98% of the sawdust from the air. It’s also a terrific system. Their website Oneida-air.com is a good source of information about dust collection.

You can find detailed discussions of this at the sawmillcreek.org site.

[woodworker]

[QUOTE=KarlC;2647889]We use festools to collect all of our dust, most of our work is done in the field, the key is to collect the dust at the source and not let it get airborne.

www.festoolusa.com


This is my experience too.

The Festool random orbital sanders in particular are absolutely dust-free if hooked up to their vacuum system, and the tools are bullet-proof though very expensive. But a random orbital sander, along with a table saw and a chop saw (perhaps a router) will get used more than anything else, so it's worth the investment in my opinion. I have two of these sanders but use this smaller 5" one by far the most: https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-574993-ets-125-req-125mm-5-random-orbital-sander.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyNCYyOCc5wIVBaSzCh3xTgSLEAYYASAB EgLJdfD_BwE

As Karl said, you need to get it at the source, and that takes care of the sanding. The other items can be tougher, but you just have to try and get the end points of the vacuum system as close to the source as possible. I think that my set up for the chop saw and the table saw is not that great, but I'm amazed at the amount of sawdust that they pick up nonetheless. Rockler makes a number of systems and adapters, but other than the Festool system for my sanders, the rest is a cobbled patchwork involving several different vacuums. You might need to go the same route, focusing on the primary sources first. I don't use a single overhead filtration / collection system and so cannot venture a guess on that one. I bought an over the blade system for my tablesaw but found that it was too cumbersome and got in the way, so I discarded it.

Greg

[Ozz]

McMaster Carr - the Amazon of industrial needs: https://www.mcmaster.com/dust-collectors

Design your own system!

[cuda]

I designed outfitted and have been running a university sculpture studio with a pretty robust woodshop for the last 25 years. I also have a garage conversion shop at home. You will never be entirely dust free. +/- 90% is about as good as it gets. You can expect the dust to find and settle on any and all ledges, conduits and shelves in your shop, particularly waist- high and above. This is stuff you will need to vacuum.

For proactive intervention measures

x10 for Festools. $$$ to get on board with but worth it imo

I recommend you use their vacuum when cleaning too. They have a really good filter. Shop Vacs and Rigid vacuums are mediocre with the stock filter and marginally better with the micron filter. The Festool is the best I've used.

Also, get a cyclone dust collector that can be set up portable( wheeled platform) to use with the table saw, lathe(if you have one) router table and CNC. If you are the only one in the shop and the DC is on wheels with a quick connect so that you can move it to the site that is in use. We use both Jet and JDS in our shop both are excellent.

I also have 3 overhead ambient .5 micron filters with remote and vinyl strip curtains running ceiling to floor cordoning off the woodshop to keep the dust from migrating to other parts of the studio.

[a4racer]

...that's amazing!

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions. I also try to do as much as I can outside, but in rainy weather (PNW), I'm stuck in the garage, hahaha. The Festool stuff and the Clearvue cyclone look to be good options...I'll look deeper into those!

Thanks again, as usual: PLers to the rescue!

[KarlC]

The Makita BO6050J 6" Random Orbit Sander, works good also, its not as good as the Festool but it cost a lot less and should work well for your needs

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AWQY8VS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The Makita track saw system works good also, again not as good as the Festool but it cost a lot less and should work well for your needs

.

[paredown]

I have been getting by with an Oneida "cyclone" that you can buy and use a ShopVac as the suction source-there are lots of plans on the net for building a cart, and then placing the baby cyclone (it sits on a 5 gal plastic pail included with the kit).

It works OK, but catching at the source is particularly hard with a table saw and/or miter saw--the good systems for the table saw use both a hood over the blade and a downdraft connection. Miter saws are just a problem--mine is particularly bad--it came with a cloth bag that is barely worth using, and hooking up a hose to the minicyclone gets only a small part.

People who have the room use both a suction at source system AND an electrostatic precipitation system to take the fine dust out of the air--this would be my dream, because the fine dust follows me into the house every time I open or close the door from the garage to the house.

[Dude]

I'm barely even a hobbyist - more of a projectist. The easiest that I've done is to hook my shop vac directly up to the tool (orbital sander, miter saw). The only thing I don't have a solution for is my circular saw. That makes a downright mess, so I have to cut outside. Though, I cut on top of a piece of foam insulation so I don't feel good about spitting out a bunch of insulation dust into the environment.

That's probably the first/easiest solution. Or the Shimano 105 version, before you spend a bunch of money on cyclones and stuff.

Also, wear a dust mask. That'll save your lungs, even when outside.

[Joe]

You are smart to ask about this...in addition to the mess, sawdust can pose significant health risks.

Design of an appropriate dust collection system depends on the type of tools you are using; as you would expect, stationary power tools such as table saws and planers require significantly greater dust collection capacity than handheld power tools.

As others have mentioned, Festool makes excellent dust collection equipment, and dust collection is inherent in their power tool designs.

Oneida https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/personal-shops (I have no affiliation) is an excellent source of dust collection equipment for stationary power tools.

Here’s a link to a Fine Woodworking magazine article... https://www.finewoodworking.com/2012/12/17/all-about-dust-collection.

[HenryA]

A high quality shop vac with hepa filter is a good place to start. If that is too costly a regular shop vac with a dry wall filter is pretty good. Figure out a way to hook it to your existing tools. Even cardboard and tape to build collectors around stationary tools can help you get started. Next step is a dust collector for big tools. Last step is a ceiling mounted air cleaner.

I have nothing against Festool but the price of admission is shocking. With a little effort you can adapt many handheld power tools you already own to dust collection with a shop vac.

More hand work is another way to minimize dust. Hand saws, chisels and planes aren’t nearly so messy.

Finally, if you’re doing something that leaves you breathing dust, wear a good dust mask. Won’t keep the shop clean but definitely better for your lungs.

[bigbill]

I'm the Chief Engineer at a cabinet factory where we make 4000+ a day. I have three dust collectors, each with a baghouse the size of a rail car. Probably more than you need.

[martl]

Okay, this question is truly OT, but given the expertise and scope of the members here on the PL, I figured I'd likely get a better response, and more learned response than in some other forums!

I'm a hobby woodworker, and am getting more into it. I'll always be an amateur, but I love it. It is 180 degrees from what I do as a career, and perhaps that's why I enjoy it. I'm lucky to have a good sized garage (and with plenty of driveway space, no need to park a car inside). I'd like to expand my woodworking space in the garage, but also don't want to coat everything in there with a fine particulate dust everytime I use a power tool, for instance. My bikes / bike stands / bike workshop area is also in the garage, so I want to be able to keep that area clean and sawdust free...

Does anyone here have experience with those fancy dust collection systems for woodworking shops? Are they highly effective at keeping the dust down from power tools? I could, in theory, throw up a stud wall and enclose the bike area, but I prefer a nice open garage if at all possible...

Your experience / advice / suggestions are sought!

Thanks in advance PL!
I'd check out some of the "maker" s channels on YouTube for that, like Bob clagett (I like to make stuff) or David Picciutto (make something), especially the latter is somewhat known for having a superclean shop. They also talked about dust collection on their podcast "making it".

Cheers, Martin, sent from a very *cough* dusty workshop...

[unterhausen]

I have a very nice cyclone dust collector. It's in pieces in my shop because I decided to modify it and it's going slowly. I think it's good to use a mask in conjunction with dust collection. It takes more of a dust collector than most of us can afford to get all of the dust. Some people think that a two stage system with a small cyclone in front of a shop vac can pull enough air to do the job properly. There is an example on this page: https://www.shophacks.com/
Might be worth buying his plan

[thunderworks]

I have been making furniture for over 25 years after a long career owning a bike shop. My dust collection system uses an Oneida 3hp cyclone. It is effective at collecting the large sawdust particles. I also use a Fein tool triggered vacuum with small tools like sanders and routers. It’s been my experience that the collection systems will get much of the dust you generate, but they absolutely will NOT get all the fine dust you create, and that over time, it will get everywhere.

R.
http://www.thunderworksinc.com

[redir]

I have been making furniture for over 25 years after a long career owning a bike shop. My dust collection system uses an Oneida 3hp cyclone. It is effective at collecting the large sawdust particles. I also use a Fein tool triggered vacuum with small tools like sanders and routers. It’s been my experience that the collection systems will get much of the dust you generate, but they absolutely will NOT get all the fine dust you create, and that over time, it will get everywhere.

R.
http://www.thunderworksinc.com

And the fine dust is the stuff that kills you too.

[Tandem Rider]

In my experience the dust collector keeps the mess manageable. I have a lid for 2 4" hoses that sits on a garbage can that gets most of the chips before they get to the collector. Anytime I'm going to be making fine dust I turn on the ceiling filter ahead of time just to get the air in the shop moving so airborne dust will get caught in the filter before it settles out. Still, wear a mask for belt and random orbit sanders.
Some dust still settles onto everything but this extends the interval between cleaning all the shelves, drawers, lightfixtures etc.

[tv_vt]

Speaking of woodworking cyclists, have you seen these? Amazing!

https://lyrebirdcycles.com/

[dziekiel]

while certainly pricey, short of a custom / industrial solution, Festool is going to be the best bet.

[Sewere]

Well you can't go wrong with that, but a more budget solution like a Shop Fox W1685 could also be ideal for the situation.

[Bob Ross]

Does anyone here have experience with those fancy dust collection systems for woodworking shops? Are they highly effective at keeping the dust down from power tools?

Bear in mind that my answer stems from 8 months working in a professional architectural millworking shop almost 35 years ago...so A) we probably generated a crap-ton more sawdust than any single home hobbyist ever would, and B) my memory may be sullied by the intervening years

...but in short: No.

[C40_guy]

Interesting timing...I just started this related thread (https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=474473) on garagejournal.com. Some really good information and links there.

My shop is a 15x18 basement room with no outside walls and no ventilation. Worst case scenario.

I have a ShopSmith DC3300 dust collector which collects *some* of the detritus from my table saw, a small amount from my miter saw and virtually nothing from anything else.

It's the fine dust particles that will kill you. So I'm looking into an air filtration system, essentially a two stage filter that sucks the shop air in, filters it, and spits it back out.

I was initially considering a simple exhaust system, but then I'd have to get to an outside wall and provide make up air. The air filtration system, plus wearing an N95 mask, is the way I'm going.

By the way, read some of the links in that other thread. A shop that appears immaculate will have lots of fine dust particles on the floor, and you can create/measure dangerous levels just by walking through the shop.

You also need to run filtration systems for a while after you are done cutting/sanding/etc, and keep your mask on essentially all the time.

Now...the question is...how do I keep my bikes from getting dusty. (It's a multipurpose shop!)

[C40_guy]

I also have an over head filter that takes out the larger stuff that might be floating in the air: https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Hanging-Air-Filter-3-Speed/G0738?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5vnt19ic5wIVg5OzCh1rvgWkEA QYASABEgKA-fD_BwE


I'm going with either a WEN or JET multi filter ceiling mount system that will move up to 1000CFM. The WEN runs $300 at HD, the JET is about $75 more...

[C40_guy]

Here's some good reading (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/beginnnerscorner.php) about fine dust particle management.

[RFC]

It doesn't answer your question about controlling the mess, but I have recently moved most of my wood and metalworking to my covered backyard patio out of concern for health. I set up a big floor fan so that the dust blows away from me and I wear a respirator.

[C40_guy]

For my own dust collection project, I ordered two of the small Wen air filtration units. i was going to order one large one (1000 CFM max), and then figured that two (400cfm each), placed at opposite corners of the shop would give me better air circulation in the shop and therefore more net filtration. Overall price was about the same.

I also ordered a large filtration bag for my ShopSmith dust collector, along with new hoses.

The DC gets the big chunks from the table saw or miter box and the Wens will get the fine particles out of the air.

And I wear an N95 or KN95 mask when I'm working. With the filters going I should be able to take the mask off a few minutes after cutting or sanding...

Now I have rewire the shop...the PO, bless him, wired the entire shop on one circuit, and running anything more than the ShopSmith table saw and the DC will blow the circuit, leaving me in the dark. I assume that the addition of the Wen(s) to that circuit is a non-starter!

[cnighbor1]

I just got a shop vac and turned it on close to what I was cutting to capture most of the wood dust and chips
But still dust everywhere
some woods have oil in them that can not be great to breathe in
My input
charles

[C40_guy]

I just got a shop vac and turned it on close to what I was cutting to capture most of the wood dust and chips
But still dust everywhere
some woods have oil in them that can not be great to breathe in
My input
charles

Agreed Charles. Oak has pretty nasty dust, and plywood has all sorts of crap in it. I won't mention pressure treated wood...no need to ever cut that inside the house!

The fine dust is why I bought the Wen air filtration systems. I'm doing a fair amount of woodworking over the next few months, most of it with plywood. And I share the shop with some of my bicycle fleet, and that darn dust gets on/into everything... :(

[robt57]

My DIY dust system is a heavy duty elec mulching leave blower that vents out of the building. The 4" leave sucker intake mated to the normal 4" flex pipe to the 220v tools is a touch kludgy but effective.

It is more of a get the dust/chips out and away from the tools and shop system that was temporary, but still in place due to inexpensive efficacy.

YMMV, I used the money the fancy system would have cost to buy a 17" Grizzly bandsaw...

[RWL2222]

I just got a shop vac and turned it on close to what I was cutting to capture most of the wood dust and chips
But still dust everywhere
some woods have oil in them that can not be great to breathe in
My input
charles

For a shop vac level dust collection setup, these Dust Right separators work great for power hand tools or a small bandsaw.

https://www.rockler.com/dust-right-dust-separator


This setup is not suitable though for machines--jointer, planer, etc.--that require larger volume and chip removal. A good dust mask is important and way underused. I don't use a sander at all because the dust is such a pita. For sustained use, an air scrubber is important to avoid a thin layer of dust covering every nook and cranny, inside and out. Dust control is important and usually overlooked-- worth a trip to woodworking store to get informed.

[redir]

For a shop vac level dust collection setup, these Dust Right separators work great for power hand tools or a small bandsaw.

https://www.rockler.com/dust-right-dust-separator


This setup is not suitable though for machines--jointer, planer, etc.--that require larger volume and chip removal. A good dust mask is important and way underused. I don't use a sander at all because the dust is such a pita. For sustained use, an air scrubber is important to avoid a thin layer of dust covering every nook and cranny, inside and out. Dust control is important and usually overlooked-- worth a trip to woodworking store to get informed.

That looks similar to what I pointed out on the first page of this thread and what I use: https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/home/116-cv06-mini-system.html

I have a HEPA vacuum hooked up to the clear view and the same bag and dust filter has been in it for years becasue literally no visible dust even makes it to the vacuum.

These type of systems help a lot but point source dust collection is by all means not perfect. You can see videos online where they use a special light to show dust and even with good point source systems a lot of dust comes off the saw blade.

So really any solution is best supplemented with an N-95 mask or better. And now we are all used to wearing those anyway :D

[C40_guy]

My DIY dust system is a heavy duty elec mulching leave blower that vents out of the building. The 4" leave sucker intake mated to the normal 4" flex pipe to the 220v tools is a touch kludgy but effective.


I don't have that option in my shop. Two below grade walls and two interior walls gives me no easy way to vent to the outdoors (and to provide make-up air). So I had to go with the air filtration system...

[metalheart]

After a recent move I now have a 12x22x7.5 shop space with table saw, planer, jointer, Kapex mitre saw, and various Festool sanders, track saw, domino, and routers. I have a Festool vac dedicated to the mitre saw and the other vac is set up to use with the sanders, track saw, etc... with two multifunction tables (MFT 1080s).

I sold my older Delta dust collector before moving and my current plan is to get the Oneida Mini Gorilla (https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/personal-shops/mini-gorilla/220v-1-5-hp-mini-gorilla-cyclone-dust-collector), add a WEN or Jet air cleaner, and add a cyclone to my other Festool vac.

I just use one of the larger machines at a time, so I think the Oneida Mini should work just fine. I have a walk out area from the basement that I plan to cover with cement when the weather is better and do any breakdown of plywood or mdf there to further minimize interior dust.

[2LeftCleats]

Stumpy Nubs over on YouTube has a series of videos on the subject.

[qnz]

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Festool CT15. Not too many videos/info on it since it was just released.
I'm not planning on buying into their ecosystem. I just need a shop vac for the house. I do my cutting outside the garage but some of it ends up on the bikes in the garage

[unterhausen]

You can make dust collection a big project or you can get a cyclone. I got an Onieda, one of the ones that they designed when they had no idea what they were doing. I recently modified it and it works great. Their newer ones are much better. I probably would get one of the Asian cyclones if I were to buy now. The Laguna looks nice but I think it needs some mods before it works well.

[RWL2222]

Festool ‘dust extractors’ on there own I would say are overkill as a shop vac. I bought one for use in a lab (its a nice feature to have the antistatic hose around electronics) but it is really best for their sanders. But people love their festool stuff. I use a fein at home mostly to clean up shavings and (hand) saw dust.


Separately, there’s this seemingly super high option that I have ogled

https://blog.bridgecitytools.com/2016/06/15/amazing-dust-collector-ever-heard/

[Hardlyrob]

I've been building furniture for about 30 years as a semi-professional hobby ( a few client projects a year), as well as taking houses apart and putting them back together.

Take a deep breath, and slap down your credit card for the Festool systainers. For small power tools, nothing else comes close. They also make the only RO sander I've ever used that doesn't suck.

As others have said, there isn't a good fix for chop saws that I'm aware of. For band saws, table saws, jointers, shapers etc Oneida seems to be the most flexible and effective solution. It also makes a big difference to have the bigger pro models that have dust collection designed into them - whether Delta, Fox, Grizzly etc - the bigger machines have the right ports in the right places for dust collection.

By all means use McMaster Carr - they are truly amazing - I swear that things have shown up when I was thinking about them, before I ordered them.

[qnz]

Festool ‘dust extractors’ on there own I would say are overkill as a shop vac. I bought one for use in a lab (its a nice feature to have the antistatic hose around electronics) but it is really best for their sanders. But people love their festool stuff. I use a fein at home mostly to clean up shavings and (hand) saw dust.


Separately, there’s this seemingly super high option that I have ogled

https://blog.bridgecitytools.com/2016/06/15/amazing-dust-collector-ever-heard/

I was initially looking at the Fein Turbo I but the price diff $320 vs CT15 $350 is negligible and the CT15 has a HEPA filter. To add a HEPA filter to the turbo I is $100 more

[C40_guy]

Lisa from USPS dropped my two WENs off today. Surprised...thought they'd come (from HD) either UPS or Fedex Ground.

Now I have to hang them and get back into my shop, which is way too dusty!

...but I didn't want to do any cleanup until I had the air filtration system in place...