Pacenti Ride Report

[Fat Robert]

The frame is built (pics tuesday) and I took it out for a short ride this morning. I don't have the vast experience with similar frames that some on the forum do (climb90210 needs one, for the definite review to be written), and I don't have subtly sophisticated sensors in my rear, so --

handling:

this was why I contacted kirk to begin with. the guy knows how to design a bike, period. I tried the "crit corner" test -- there's a 90-degree number at the bottom of a long slight (1%) downhill drag near here that I can hit at 28-30 during a 10min interval or after a short sprint into it. kirk's bike took that corner better than anything I've ever had under my butt. fast, stable, confident. kicks the crap out of that (stupid) scott.

handling:

its rock stiff nose to tail, and it just wants to go fast. really fast. I can't wait to try a typical hairpin-every-half-mile NC mountain descent on this thing. absolutely awesome.

handling:

this is a 100% race bike that is far beyond my cat3 hack abilities. bravo kirk.

ride quality:

why am I bothering? its a round-tubed steel bike designed by a genius...of course it rides well. go back and read the handling part. review over.

[saab2000]

Nice! Post us some pics of the finished product.

Also, just out of curiosity, what does it weigh? I know, I know.... weight don't matter. But I am curious. I am sure it is competitive and probably about 18 lbs.

[Ray]

When you sit on the RIGHT bike for the first time. I've had that experience twice now, first with a Riv almost 10 years ago and more recently with a Spectrum. It just feels right in every respect - the right balance between stable and responsive, between stiff and springy, etc. I've liked a number of bikes when they were new, but only in those two cases did I know I was riding something unlike anything else I'd ever ridden. And both have turned out to be the keepers in my then growing, now shrinking, stable.

Enjoy!

And post pics pronto please,

-Ray

[Fat Robert]

19 pounds built up with this heavy stuff

03 Chorus
Oval bars
WCS stem
Open Pro clinchers with Rubinos
Time RXS carbon
Turbomatic
cheap Bontrager alloy cages
Wound Up post


tubulars and some weight weenie bits and its an 18 pound bike

[saab2000]

You need to get some Neutrons or Nucleons. No joke. You will notice a difference. Wheels are somewhat lighter, but noticably sharper and stiffer, especially in tubular form. And they are very durable.

[Climb01742]

dude, given all your trials and tribulations over the years with bikes and fit, it is so freakin' cool that you now have the machine you want/need/deserve. i'm really psysched for you. i hope it helps you get where you wanna be, racin'-wise. rock on, man. and kudos to kirk.

[NAHBS]

Congrats to you and Kirk, cant wait for the pics!

DW

[Big Dan]

Nice..but pics Tuesday? is Monday a holiday???

:p

[Grant McLean]

why am I bothering? its a round-tubed steel bike designed by a genius...of course it rides well. go back and read the handling part. review over.

sounds like you could almost use the "L-word" to describe it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EErOwBLC28M

(**may not be suitable for work)

g

[pdxmech13]

your bike is one classy lady, please just don't let anyone else know how good she is.

[Too Tall]

What Climingjuan said :) NICE NICE NICE

[Fat Robert]

the scott may go out the door

i'm going to take a few weeks and figure whether to keep it as the backup/trainer rig, see if I can find a guy to do me a 57x57, 73/73, 7cm bb drop, 41.5 cstay trainer/change of pace/cruddy days/mood swings frame for about 800 bucks or so (figuring that I could get 600-800 for that scott), or to snag a cross frame (maybe that what the 150 gift cert from my sister could go to...a redline) and put my chorus group on it. decisions, decisions.

what i know for sure is that this rig -- henceforth to be known as Blue Heaven -- is it

[manet]

The frame is built (pics tuesday) ...

13 more minutes and it'll be tuesday

[DarrenCT]

almost 4pm est on tuesday. where are da pix??? :)

[72gmc]

57x57, 73/73, 7cm bb drop, 41.5 cstay trainer/change of pace/cruddy days/mood swings frame for about 800 bucks or soit

$800 and that geometry sounds like a Soma Smoothie and a set of handbuilts. Just sayin.'

[Fat Robert]

gmc -- are you raising the classic "why custom" question? or suggesting the smoothie as a backup? if the latter, just ignore the following...

its not just about geo (i was off on the BB drop and stays:bb drop is 7.5, stays are a bit longer at 42) -- but i think kirk's geo is very impressive. the whole package just works -- a little lower bb and a little longer stays do something...what, kirk would tell you exactly. a soma or a gunnar doesn't handle this well. i've owned one and ridden the other. they ain't it.

design elements -- the tube diameters, the dropouts, along with the geo, make the total package. that comes with going to, as climb puts it, a top notch guy, whomever that may be. it doesn't come from a 800 buck frame (unless you have some serious blackmail dirt on sachs).

[72gmc]

I was suggesting the latter but all of your points make sense. Not being a framebuilder bestowed with gestalt I do not know what works and doesn't, but your idea of taking the spot-on Pacenti geo and asking a competent builder to make it a little "longer-legged" for fenders/rough roads/putzin' around is also what I would do.

[obtuse]

not to be the voice of dissent here but i don't really get it. something doesn't look right and the whole thing strikes me as a contrived attempt to mimic a pegoretti in every concievable way except the one that really matters...

i guess what unrattles me is that a pegoretti is a distinct look, experience and design that i've never before seen copied and here is a pegoretti "copy" borne out of the heads of a couple of guys who know and and taste the pegoretti kool-aid that permeates through out this place on the interweb....something about this project makes me uneasy, queesy and sort of creeped out about this bike.


obviously there is a place for big fat round tubed tig welded steel race bikes-they're nothing new; but the dropouts, the stays and the overall look is just too derivative for my liking. it reminds me of a really good kit car i guess which doesn't suit my style yo.....

glad you love it and that it rides great and i really feel awful about saying what i think and i know i'm probably wrong but hey, it's just the internet.

obtuse

[chrisroph]

It does have the look of a peg but the cs's are a little longer and the drop is a bit more, no? Haven't looked at peg geo tables in a while. What you haven't discussed are the rake/trail figures. Can you let us know what those are?

The lower bb/longer cs thing is pretty good isn't it, and I'm sure those cs's are extremely solid.

Glad you like it.

[Fat Robert]

hey -- shouldn't that have come from the jerk?

seriously:

sure, there are similarities. what I'd say is this -- kirk has his own ideas about how to put a bike together. big round stays? kirk did work with TK at merlin, after all.... big round tubes? they're out there. the dropouts? breezer does them, and the wright brothers started that.... dario was the first guy to put out frames that combined some design elements that had all been used before, but hadn't all been synthesized together on a road bike. its not like he invented any one element.

this is what kirk wanted a bike with his name on it to look like -- like any designer, he looked at the options for solving the problems, and picked what he thought was the best combination/solution. saying his bikes are "rip offs" is like saying sachs is a hack because "ugo derosa already did that."

[Too Tall]

Jerkisssimo :) By g-d it's nice to have you back on form boy. Bannana banna bamamma.

Whatever, yeah no question there is a "nod" to Dario derrr. I'll bet a six of Schlitz that was discussed.

Anywho, it could have a red saddle and perfect lugs that blink on and off neon lights I could not suffer a rats arse over it!!!! WHAT matters is our dear boy has finally got his sorry fat butt onto a proper race bike and we don't have to hear his sorry whine NO MO.

Can I hear an amen from the congregation yo?

[atmo]

saying his bikes are "rip offs" is like saying sachs is a hack because "ugo derosa already did that."

don't agitate me atmo.
there was life before ugo et al.

[Fat Robert]

stop whining?

i'll find all kinds of crap to whine about, don't worry.

i didn't "request" anything about the bike, other than the color. I gave kirk contact points, said "blue," and the rest was up to him....

[Fat Robert]

there was life before ugo et al.

exactly, richiesawa.

tradition and the individual talent, yo.

[Grant McLean]

there was life before ugo et al.

giuseppe pelaentology?

g

[CNote]

...the whole thing strikes me as a contrived attempt to mimic a pegoretti in every concievable way except the one that really matters...


...the paint?

[stevep]

saying his bikes are "rip offs" is like saying sachs is a hack because "ugo derosa already did that."


be careful... you'll piss off atmo... remember what happened to che guevara? he pissed atmo off... now hes dead.
fidel castro? now hes almost dead.
watch it robert.

derosa used lugs?

[Fat Robert]

be careful... you'll piss off atmo... remember what happened to che guevara? he pissed atmo off... now hes dead.
fidel castro? now hes almost dead.
watch it robert.

derosa used lugs?


yeah...i knew i was endangering my life and family with that one..but it was all in the service of rhetoric, ya know....

yeah. derosa used lugs. whoda thought?

[manet]

file the lug _ defile the person

[NAHBS]

Today is Weds. Did I miss the pics somewhere???

Anxiously awaiting....

DW

[jthurow]

Today is Weds. Did I miss the pics somewhere???
See http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=24765

jimi

[chrisroph]

Robert:

What's the rake? If I'm not mistaken, a 43 would yield 59mm of trail, and a 45 would yield 57mm. How does the trail figure compare to the scott?

[Fat Robert]

43mm, 59mm. The scott has a lower trail number, but longer f-c and higher bb....I have no idea how they work or don't work together...I like the lower bb, shorter f-c, higher trail, longer stay recipie, though, fwiw....

[chrisroph]

43mm, 59mm. The scott has a lower trail number, but longer f-c and higher bb....I have no idea how they work or don't work together...I like the lower bb, shorter f-c, higher trail, longer stay recipie, though, fwiw....

I shoulda guessed on the trail. I like that recipe too. The first time you taste it, you go ahhhh. For me, it was about 20 years when I got my ciocc. It had a low bb, short fc, horizontal dropouts, and about 59mm of trail. I needed a longer stem than I had ever used before and the bike cornered like nothing I had ever had before. When I commissioned my first custom, TK listened to what I liked and looked at what I rode and build this still amazing machine, which has 72 st angle, 73.5 ht angle, over 75mm of drop, a 57.5 tt, massive round stays between about 40.5 and 41.5 depending, and it wears a 14 stem. It is still my best handling bike ever. I'm pleased you like your KP; quite the discussion about it.

[bironi]

and blow the crap from the other forum discussion from your head. :beer:
Byron