etap hrd brake bleed issue

[mdeth1313]

I posted this on WW but I'm not getting anything helpful - I have a bike with etap HRD and I dropped off my bike on Friday for a brake bleed at the LBS. Noticed things getting a little spongy - still working and stopping just fine, but having to pull more to get the brakes to engage.

I had reservations as the LBS is expensive - more expensive than others in the area, but the next closest is about 40-45 min away by car.

I'm away until tomorrow and yesterday I get a call from the LBS and he says he can't get the fluid to go in at all and it's going to cost more money because he was on the phone with sram and they told him to disconnect the cable and start checking.

Has anyone encountered an issue like this? Everything was working so there shouldn't have been a blockage.

My thoughts are he's incompetent (which is sad when you consider the # of mountain bikes he works on w/ a sram setup or he's just using this to charge me for more time.

Either way I'm done after this - it's my winter bike so I need it back in working condition. After I told him to go ahead I realized I probably should have had him leave it and I'd figure out how to do it myself in the spring or take it to a better shop at some point.

In the meantime - has anyone ever encountered anything like this w/ sram hydraulic brakes?

Thanks!

[hollowgram5]

This seems odd. The bleed process is fairly normal.

Open ports, connect syringes, push fluid from bottom up, exercise levers, remove syringes, close ports.

Have you ever bled brakes yourself? SRAM stuff uses DOT fluid.

YouTube video shows the process. It's pretty straight forward but I've never done a bleed myself.

https://youtu.be/mO5lipPGGlo

[mdeth1313]

I've seen the videos and I bought the bike new this summer, so this is the first bleed. I figured I'd leave it to a mechanic - it makes no sense. I probably should have told him to leave it and either take it somewhere else or try it myself.

[Krenovian]

I have an etap hrd equipped bike and have bled the brakes several times. I'll be doing it again later this week. It is a straight forward process. I've yet to encounter a problem. Certainly nothing like the shop is describing.

This is pure speculation on my part. It's possible that some sort of debris was introduced into the system when the bike was assembled, maybe in the reservoir, and now has found its way into the brake line. This might account for the spongy feel and difficulty in bleeding the system.

It will be interesting to hear what the shop comes up with.


Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[mdeth1313]

Well, I looked at some of the online reviews and the one-star reviews go something like this:

I dropped my bike off to have "x" done or worked on and I ended paying more than the quoted price because it took more time and/or something else was wrong.

In a few cases people tried multiple times with the same thing. Not everyone, but it's not a high volume place and the complaints are too similar. I'm going to call in a minute and see what's going on and possibly tell him to stop so I can get it back and deal with it myself.

I should add I'm the original owner the the bike isn't even 6 months old.

[Gummee]

Welcome to riding SRAM brakes.

Get used to that kind of thing.

M

[sparky33]

I'm away until tomorrow and yesterday I get a call from the LBS and he says he can't get the fluid to go in at all and it's going to cost more money because he was on the phone with sram and they told him to disconnect the cable and start checking.

Has anyone encountered an issue like this? Everything was working so there shouldn't have been a blockage.

I doubt there is an odd blockage in the hose, but it sounds like system isn't entirely open when the bleed was attempted. Hard to diagnose further, but my guess:

iirc eTap uses the SRAM Bleeding Edge socket on the caliper, unlike non-eTap SRAM road calipers that use the ordinary threaded socket. Perhaps the mechanic neglected to pre-loosen the bleeding edge port before inserting the socket (which then turns to completely open the port) - you have to do this in order to open the system and allow DOT fluid (and air) to flow through from one syringe to the other syringe. Without flow through, you could not evacuate air from the system...this would make brakes spongy. Maybe?

In any case, bleeding is a matter of following a set of steps - there is nothing tricky about it now that YouTube exists. Get a bleed kit and give it a try. Have gloves, eye cover and shop towels when working with DOT fluid on SRAM brakes.

[sparky33]

Welcome to riding SRAM brakes.


.....:rolleyes:

I am guessing at least half of the SRAM mechanical issues I've observed originate with a failure to follow the manual. Why is reading (or watching) directions not a thing that people do anymore?

To be fair SRAM set up (e.g. derailleur alignment) and maintenance (e.g. bleeding) evolves steadily over time, generally for the better, but maybe it would be difficult for a mechanic to keep the various procedures straight if they are working on last generation mechanical 1x Rival one minute and today's AXS the next.

[sales guy]

As someone who's worked in and owned one, not all shops are created equal. Doesn't matter how many bikes they sell. There are a ton of shops who have no clue what they're doing.

HRD brakes are pretty simple to work with. Other than them being DOT fluid and you need to be more cautious and have to dispose of the old fluid properly, they are pretty straight forward.

My guess, he's never played with road brakes before. OR, he screwed up and did something wrong. And now he's trying cover it.

Before I ever start something, if I don't know 100% how to do it, I research it like crazy to make sure I'm comfortable with it and I don't f it up. The bleed screws on disc brakes are super easy to strip. And they are very special. I buy extras because I've had them come in stripped out and they need replaced. I had one come in on a brand new caliper from a company. Never been touched. But there's no way I'm going to let that leave like that.

I would go see the guy, find out what is going on and have him explain it with you there BEFORE he does any other work.

[kppolich]

How were the pads before you brought them in? Fresh pads is usually where I start before going to a bleed as I get better brake feel. 6 months also seems a little short-lived to be doing a brake bleed on a brand new bike, albeit I don't know the history of the bike, use, or mileage.

[nmrt]

NOT ALL SHOPS ARE CREATED EQUAL

I usually bleed by mtb brakes myself. I have invested in the bleed kits and enjoy bleeding them. But recently I bought a road disc bike equipped with Sram HRD. And since I did not have the proper bleeding kit for Sram, I took it to my LBS for a bleed. The bike gets returned to me after bleeding and the lever feel is not amazing but okay. I take the bike, pay them the money and go home.

Now when I take the bike for a spin in the neighborhood, the bike when I brake, howls and squeals like a monster that is about to konk out. After a bit of investigation, I find that the brake pads are lathered in brake fluid. My guess is that they did not clean the calipers properly after the bleed and the brake fluid seeped into the pads. Or heck, maybe they did not even remove the brake pads. Anyway, I remove the pads, clean them with some cleaner, dry them in the oven, sand them off, re-install them, and then go for a test ride. The sound monster that was konking out before has disappeared!

So sad to see the sad state of affairs in many bike shop service competency.

[David Kirk]

Welcome to riding SRAM brakes.

Get used to that kind of thing.

M

I dunno - I have set up lots of these and never had one issue. I have two personal bikes with Sram wet brakes and they work just as one would hope they would after setting them up as Sram recommends.

dave

[CiclistiCliff]

Super finicky if initial set up wasn’t right. If monoblock calipers, could be the caliper. They switched all their road and Ultimate stuff to two piece.


If the initial build sucked and the barb ripped the liner in the hose, fluid is now getting into the hose sheath.

If the olive was installed backwards , which is very possible and I have seen it, it could be causing this issue.


If the bike were built at the shop and newish, they should eat the cost of diagnostics. If it were built elsewhere and brought to them, they are now chasing issues that are either product or build issues, neither they are to blame for

Time spent is time spent.

[mdeth1313]

Yeah - just called the shop and he didn't pick up. Left a message not to go ahead with anything (as he said he hadn't yet when I called when they opened this morning). I'll either figure it out myself or take it to a reputable shop further away. I have other bikes to ride, but this is the winter bike. Lesson learned. I should have taken it to the other shop first or just waited until spring/summer when I don't ride it as much.

Thanks for the replies.

[prototoast]

I had a similar problem once while working on one of my own bikes. I just couldn't get it to bleed right, it felt like something was blocking the fluid. I must have spent 20 minutes frustrated and checking everything to try to find the problem. Yada yada yada, turns out I had forgotten to open up the bleed port.:eek:

Anyway, I don't know what's wrong with your bike.

[SoCalSteve]

Welcome to riding SRAM brakes.

Get used to that kind of thing.

M

I own 2 bikes with ETap HRD brakes set up by a very reputable shop. Still working great after a few thousand miles.

I guess I don’t have to get used to that kind of thing...:eek:

[oddsaabs]

A couple things come to mind if they're having trouble getting fluid to flow from caliper to lever:

1. The lever hasn't released all the way out and the piston is blocking the pathway to the reservoir. Simple problem that can happen if the lever throw isn't dialed all the way out before bleeding begins.

2. A piece of plastic from the lever is blocking the channel from the piston to the reservoir. Not uncommon, especially if the banjo bolt has been removed and reinstalled into the lever. It's made of plastic stuff.

3. As mentioned earlier, one of the steps has been overlooked like loosening the Bleeding Edge fitting at the caliper.

Hope that helps.

[mdeth1313]

Thanks again for all the responses.

I called the shop and of course, he hadn't done any work since he called me the afternoon before. I told him I was going to pick up the bike and try it myself because I thought it was going to get expensive since he didn't know what the issue was.

The plan is to pick it up tomorrow after work and see what's going on. If I don't think I can handle it, it's off to a more reputable shop that has more experience working on this stuff.

Sadly, I don't think this shop puts much effort into this kind of stuff. It's a small shop and he's able to survive because he's the owner and he's the mechanic so there's not much overhead. I don't use the shop much but I've sent a lot of people there who have purchased bikes for their kids, the entire family, racks, etc, and I'm not looking for special treatment, but I feel as if every experience I've had there has been shoddy workmanship on his part, and I've been overcharged, so screw it. No more sending business there and I'll never set foot in the shop again.

[vqdriver]

:rolleyes:

Welcome to riding SRAM brakes.

Get used to that kind of thing.

M

[Heisenberg]

the contact adjuster at the top of the lever (big 5mm fitting) needs to be backed out to the snap ring in order to bleed, otherwise it'll block the fluid from entering the system.

the second time i ever bled HRD brakes i lost my mind skipping this minor step.

[mdeth1313]

Called the other bike shop I was going to use today from work and explained the situation and they said they've worked on a couple of road bikes w/ sram disc brakes with some debris in the line, so it was a possibility.

I picked up the bike from shop 1 and, to my surprise, he didn't charge me, which was probably the right thing to do.

Drove to the other shop and brought it in around 3:20 PM. He took a look, asked a few questions, went over a few things, took my info down and told me he'd have some info for me later today. I asked to use their restroom before I left and when I went back around to leave they already had the bike in the stand working on it. Unlike shop 1 where I dropped it on Friday and he didn't even look at it until Tues afternoon.

Mechanic also mentioned both brakes shouldn't have the same issue so maybe shop 1 missed something.

I do most of my own wrenching - hopefully this works out so I have someone to go to for things I either can't do or would rather have someone else work on.

[Gummee]

I own 2 bikes with ETap HRD brakes set up by a very reputable shop. Still working great after a few thousand miles.

I guess I don’t have to get used to that kind of thing...:eek:

Give it a while. Something's going to happen.

I see many more SRAM equipped bikes than you do...

M

[mdeth1313]

Story over. Received an email that the bike was done around noon the next day. Picked it up later that afternoon. Less than 24 hour turnaround, charge was $10 less than the original shop's quote of $60 (before he was going to go looking for the "problem".

Shop that did the work said there was some resistance and he thought the stealthamajig (sram hose connector) might not have been fully tightened on one end so it was causing some issue.

At least now I have a competent mechanic to use when I can't or don't want to do things myself.

[SoCalSteve]

Story over. Received an email that the bike was done around noon the next day. Picked it up later that afternoon. Less than 24 hour turnaround, charge was $10 less than the original shop's quote of $60 (before he was going to go looking for the "problem".

Shop that did the work said there was some resistance and he thought the stealthamajig (sram hose connector) might not have been fully tightened on one end so it was causing some issue.

At least now I have a competent mechanic to use when I can't or don't want to do things myself.

So, in the end, it was an installation issue, not something that went wrong with any of the SRAM components?

[mdeth1313]

So, in the end, it was an installation issue, not something that went wrong with any of the SRAM components?

That's what it appears. It must be the side I didn't disconnect when I pulled switched handlebars and had to pull the hoses through (internal routing). When I reinstalled those suckers were tight.

Nice to find a mechanic who checked that first!