Betsema is back...so conflicted.

[crankles]

Well, she's back.
https://www.cxmagazine.com/denise-betsema-claim-contaminated-supplement-positive-steroid-test

I was a huge fan of Betsema so I really want to believe her side of things...but I'm finding it sooooo hard...

[echelon_john]

The UCI is a joke. But then again so is FIFA, the NFL, the NBA, F1....the list goes on.

[72gmc]

By continuing to put forth opaque decisions, and press cases despite bad lab practices, the UCI has created a situation where it's a negative no matter what they say about an athlete associated with doping. All parties are tainted, and everything is conditional rather than clear.

I am cynical about the UCI's desire to fix this. I think it serves their ends to run Anti-Doping Theater rather than a genuine effort. The athletes get trashed and they can still sell the sport.

[Red Tornado]

Saw this story on other media and, yeah, I'm not sure what to make of it either.

She had such a, can I say "meteoric", rise to the top that it even surprised her. She admitted it in an interview. Something along the lines of "it happened faster than I thought, and it was easier than I thought it would be". That statement was a red flag for me. I think she tried to walk it back later.

I see three possibilities; or could be a combination of:
1. She is just that good.
2. The competition is not as good as it appeared to be.
3. She was on the juice.

At this point, most of us probably don't know. Results/performance from here on out might be a good indicator of how it all happened. Hope for her sake, she can replicate results. If not, I think she will be viewed as guilty in the court of public opinion.

[jpritchet74]

The athlete is responsible for what's in their body - there have been a lot of athletes who had entire careers ruined by "tainted supplements" (Tom Zirbel, the 2nd offense for Danielson are just the ones that come to mind).

The system is definitely broken, but when the "rules" have for quite some time been a 2 year ban for 1st offense & 4 years for 2nd (that's correct, right?) then her getting 6 months really sucks.

[Red Tornado]

Agree regarding the length of the ban.
Also not real thrilled with the timing, basically backdated to the off/early season. Doesn't even qualify as a slap on the wrist IMO.
Will be interesting to see the kind of reception she gets when she starts racing.

[rain dogs]

What do I know?... plus she's back for the end of the season and won't race Hoogerheide. Can she even race the world championships.... no, right? So, she races a couple of SSR's in Feb and the season is over.

And then next year, I guess she races but she's got to be pretty far down the pecking order of Dutch girls, especially with the emergence of Worst and that superstar Ceylin.

I guess you gotta trust the system but Katie Compton (who knows more than any of us, obvs) sounds pretty mad about it. And Katerina Nash....

it does look pretty ugly. I just hope she's not back for any of the bigger races and that its not a distraction from what has been a super fun season in the womens elite.

[lavi]

Whatever happened to: "DOPERS SUCK!"?

Or are we all agreed now that racing at the top end of the sport is likely a dirty business?

Zero shock she was juicing.

[William]

Whatever happened to: "DOPERS SUCK!"?

Or are we all agreed now that racing at the top end of the sport is likely a dirty business?

Zero shock she was juicing.



Michelle says...:)


W.

[crankles]

What do I know?... plus she's back for the end of the season and won't race Hoogerheide. Can she even race the world championships.... no, right? So, she races a couple of SSR's in Feb and the season is over.

I think you are right, article said UCI points were vacated during her backdated suspension so she's out of the top 50.

[crankles]

Whatever happened to: "DOPERS SUCK!"?



Wishing I still had my Gerolsteiner dopers suck shirt!

[72gmc]

I recall DOPERS SUCK socks as well ...

[Mark McM]

I recall DOPERS SUCK socks as well ...

I've still got my "LIVE WRONG" wristband.

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/6879/258/1600/788378/LiveWrongimmitation.jpg

[homagesilkhope]

Betsema has been publicly disgraced, has had to hire both a doping expert and a lawyer and doesn't "wish this nightmare on anyone." Apparently she got into this mess because Belgian rules are strict and she wanted to reduce the risk of contamination, so she used a Belgian pharmacist to make her supplements and that didn't work out so well. She must be mad as hell about that.

So, what I'd like to know is the status of her claim against the not-so-good pharmacist - whose incompetence or negligence obviously forced her to go through this nightmare - and what comes of that.

[Gummee]

Let's think about this some:

UCI is usually pretty strict about the whole 'tainted whatever' excuse and they only suspended her for 6mos and backdated that suspension at that?

That tells me either Betsema has LA money to pay off the UCI or there may really have been tainted stuff. Being a female CX racer, it isn't likely she had LA money...

I wasn't there and I don't know any of the parties involved, but it seems that she may actually be telling the truth.

...and yeah, dopers suck. ...which leads me to the 'worship' of Pantani. Confuses the crap outta me. You either did or did not dope. You can't hate one without hating them all: Pantani, Armstrong, Virenque, Ullrich, et al all come to mind.

I'm curious about Indurain... Having watched him in his Tours, I'm betting he was on the EPO train too, just never got caught.

M

[72gmc]

You can't hate one without hating them all:

Sure you can! People can parse differences and hold opposing feelings about two or more people with common flaws.

Lots of things we do, they only make sense to us.

I, for instance, have simultaneous opinions on the Betsema affair: I suspect her of doing what it takes to win, and I also think she's a victim of the UCI's capricious administration of the sport.

[Clancy]

Let's think about this some:

UCI is usually pretty strict about the whole 'tainted whatever' excuse and they only suspended her for 6mos and backdated that suspension at that?

That tells me either Betsema has LA money to pay off the UCI or there may really have been tainted stuff. Being a female CX racer, it isn't likely she had LA money...

I wasn't there and I don't know any of the parties involved, but it seems that she may actually be telling the truth.

...and yeah, dopers suck. ...which leads me to the 'worship' of Pantani. Confuses the crap outta me. You either did or did not dope. You can't hate one without hating them all: Pantani, Armstrong, Virenque, Ullrich, et al all come to mind.

I'm curious about Indurain... Having watched him in his Tours, I'm betting he was on the EPO train too, just never got caught.

M

And am I right that Eddy Merckx was caught doping and kicked out of the Giro? And what about Fausto Coppi, Jacques Anquetil and Miguel Indurain? All guilty.

Look at how Eddy Merckx is treated today. Last years tour was a showcase for Merckx with everyone giving praise and not a mention of doping.

My point is the issue of doping is complicated and cannot be summed up with a catchy phrase like “dopers suck”. And few things in life are black and white. What happens when someone who states unequivocally that they hate all dopers when they find out their idol doped?

I have mixed emotions on the entire issue. I believe the sport of cycling is a beautiful sport filled with history and traditions. I love reading about the exploits of riders of years past, of their heroic feats and accomplishments. Ultimately I accept that pro riders are human and all humans are flawed. And if I’m going to love this sport then I need to accept that it also is flawed. I do not believe in the least that any form of doping is ok, but I also accept there is a lot of gray in this world. And I also believe the UCI is flawed although I do firmly believe that the sport is far cleaner today then anytime in its history. Squeaky clean, no of course not, but better.

As far as Betsema, I do believe given the length of suspension and that it appears the UCI agrees with her, that she did not dope intentionally.

[SpaceOdyssey]

I have yet to see any of her past and now future competitors welcome her back or side with her story

Lots of comments with bad feelings about this

[pasadena]

sudden dropped weight and sudden jump to the podium contenders, two seperate races failed tests, weightlifting hubby, and popped for anabolic steroids. No surprise.

not surprised KFC, Nash and other CX'rs are calling b.s. on this.

It's more a failure of the UCI, the inability to do right to protect the integrity of the sport.
People will always cheat, but if the UCI keeps letting them through easy loopholes, nothing will change.

[Lanternrouge]

I always want to believe the athletes, but that's pretty hard to do most of the time based on the history of athletes and doping in general. This seems like one where I really empathize for the frustration the other athletes, particularly her competitors, feel.

[lavi]

I don’t actually mind that they dope. Well, I do. What I mean is that the fact that they dope (as a result of being under the effects of the human condition) doesn’t detract from me enjoying the racing.

Here, I mentioned “dopers suck “ because that used to be the battle cry.

[marciero]

If 72gmc, Clancy, and lavi's remarks are an indication, a number of us are conflicted about doping. I've dont have an opinion on this particular case. But it's hard to read Tyler Hamilton's book, or even Paul Kimmage's book before that, without having some understanding or even empathy for those caught up in circumstances where they felt like they had no choice, whether they were stars like TH or the sad and desperate gregarios in Kimmage's book. I dont follow the sport closely any more but I'd like to retain a little of the romance and tragedy of someone like Pantani or Tom Simpson, or the epic feats of determination and athleticism that are part of cycling lore, many likely with the benefit of PED's. It's never been pane a aqua. There's no question it's a difficult tightrope at times.

[oldpotatoe]

The athlete is responsible for what's in their body - there have been a lot of athletes who had entire careers ruined by "tainted supplements" (Tom Zirbel, the 2nd offense for Danielson are just the ones that come to mind).

The system is definitely broken, but when the "rules" have for quite some time been a 2 year ban for 1st offense & 4 years for 2nd (that's correct, right?) then her getting 6 months really sucks.

Agree..she bought it, she took it, she's responsible..Unfortunate the 'supplement' was tainted but...
Was there a sample of the supplement tested that was tainted? Didn't find that. The tweet from the team said she 'proved' it was bad stuff..how?

[Red Tornado]

Impossible for any of us to know the truth, so her performance in what's left of this season and also next will hopefully indicate if she's as good as appeared to be or if she had a little "help". Not the perfect test, granted, as other dopers have come back to perform well (valv Piti comes to mind), but I don't know of any other way to gauge it besides that and doping controls.

Some on FB have suggested she didn't come "out of nowhere", referencing good MTB results and she is a very good technical rider. Fair enough, technical skills can go a long way in CX. But the little bit of cross that I've done seemed more like a very long sprint vs. MTB which feels more like doing intervals for a couple hours. If juiced, the small decrease in fatigue and increase in form, versus other racers, could let a rider do better in technical sections and provide a little extra energy in the tank. I know from riding dirt the more tired I get, the worse I do in technical parts of the trails (slower reaction time, decreased control/balance). There are definitely similarities, but MTB ain't CX. That's just my limited experience and YMMV.

I hope for her sake she's telling the truth, and she continues to have good race results while not returning any positive tests. It all just seemed to come together for her a little too quickly - and easily. You know the old saying about something appearing too good to be true. Time will tell.

[Black Dog]

Let's think about this some:

UCI is usually pretty strict about the whole 'tainted whatever' excuse and they only suspended her for 6mos and backdated that suspension at that?

That tells me either Betsema has LA money to pay off the UCI or there may really have been tainted stuff. Being a female CX racer, it isn't likely she had LA money...

I wasn't there and I don't know any of the parties involved, but it seems that she may actually be telling the truth.

...and yeah, dopers suck. ...which leads me to the 'worship' of Pantani. Confuses the crap outta me. You either did or did not dope. You can't hate one without hating them all: Pantani, Armstrong, Virenque, Ullrich, et al all come to mind.

I'm curious about Indurain... Having watched him in his Tours, I'm betting he was on the EPO train too, just never got caught.

M

That is a very safe bet.

[Ruimteaapje]

Turns out that evidence that a supplement prepared by her pharmacist was conterminated was found in a package that had not been opened yet. I certainly give her the benefit of the doubt

As for Indurain: he was in the care of EPO pioneer doctor Conconi eversince 1987.

[pdmtong]

Turns out that evidence that a supplement prepared by her pharmacist was conterminated was found in a package that had not been opened yet. I certainly give her the benefit of the doubt

As for Indurain: he was in the care of EPO pioneer doctor Conconi eversince 1987.

If this is true then this is why "UCI rules allow for bans lower than the minimum of four years in cases of 'unintentional' anti-doping rule violations."

Tainted beef is different?

[72gmc]

I've come to accept doping as part of the romance and tragedy of the sport--I like that wording, marciero. People are involved, flaws are exposed.

Betsema's case, to my eyes, highlights that a statement from the UCI--positive or negative--is usually a net negative for an athlete's image. This has less to do with the athlete than it does with the long-term credibility sinkhole that is the UCI.

[Mark McM]

If this is true then this is why "UCI rules allow for bans lower than the minimum of four years in cases of 'unintentional' anti-doping rule violations."

Tainted beef is different?

I presume you are referring to Alberto Contador's ban for clenbuterol? Contador received a 2 year ban*, which was the standard ban duration at the time of his positive test. It was a few years later that the standard ban duration was increased to 4 years.

*It was only because of the UCI that he received a ban at all. Normally, it up to the athlete's own national federation to adjudicate doping sanctions. The RFEC (Spain's antidoping body) originally proposed a 1 year ban, but then accepted Contador's appeal and cleared him of all charges. Then the UCI appealed RFEC's decision to the Court for Arbitration is Sport. CAS decided to uphold UCI's appeal, resulting in Contador receiving the then current standard 2 year ban.

[e-RICHIE]

I presume you are referring to Alberto Contador's ban for clenbuterol? Contador received a 2 year ban*, which was the standard ban duration at the time of his positive test. It was a few years later that the standard ban duration was increased to 4 years.

*It was only because of the UCI that he received a ban at all. Normally, it up to the athlete's own national federation to adjudicate doping sanctions. The RFEC (Spain's antidoping body) originally proposed a 1 year ban, but then accepted Contador's appeal and cleared him of all charges. Then the UCI appealed RFEC's decision to the Court for Arbitration is Sport. CAS decided to uphold UCI's appeal, resulting in Contador receiving the then current standard 2 year ban.


I had to look refresh my memory on this before commenting, but according to my opinion AC became a poster boy of sorts for clenbuterol and his penalty way out of whack for 1) the infraction and, 2) the actual amount of "help" an athlete can gain from having it in the system. To wit, Mick Rogers tested positive for the same substance and served a token timeout in contrast.

"In December it was announced that he had tested positive for clenbuterol at the latter race. He was suspended from cycling pending further investigation. On 23 April 2014 the UCI announced he would be cleared of any wrongdoing, no further action would be taken and that Rogers would be free to race again. The UCI accepted that there was a significant probability that the clenbuterol came from contaminated meat consumed while Rogers was competing in China, where the drug is often consumed by animals in slaughterhouses to exhibit better performance in farm sporting events."

[pasadena]

Sophie De Vuyst's b sample positive for anabolic steroids.
Hired Betsema's laywer.

Yeah for the Dutch and Belgians. We're back to anabolic steroids :rolleyes: maybe one day they can upgrade to CERA EPO

[chiasticon]

sudden dropped weight and sudden jump to the podium contenders, two seperate races failed tests, weightlifting hubby, and popped for anabolic steroids.second time I've seen this mentioned in passing today (other was in a CyclingTips comment). any source for this?

Can she even race the world championships.... no, right?I saw otherwise, actually; that if she does well this weekend, could race worlds.

The tweet from the team said she 'proved' it was bad stuff..how?allegedly had a WADA lab investigate the supplements which were tainted.

I've got mixed reactions on this. for one, her meteoric rise didn't pass the smell test last year and I was always suspicious. so when she got popped, it made sense. this back-dated ban, during the off-season, also reeks. coupled with the classic "it was unintentional and something I ate was tainted!" line. still... I supposed it is possible. the bad part of it is that if she did 100% not intend to cheat, it's very difficult for anyone to ever completely believe her. it's hard enough to believe people that haven't been caught...

[Gummee]

I supposed it is possible. the bad part of it is that if she did 100% not intend to cheat, it's very difficult for anyone to ever completely believe her. it's hard enough to believe people that haven't been caught...

I don't think most of the women's pro peloton has enough $$ to afford doping products or pay for doping products when they DO win races.

Men? Different story. Careers can be made by winning stages or spring classics

M

[rain dogs]

I saw otherwise, actually; that if she does well this weekend, could race worlds.


Yeah, my question wasn't only if it's technically possible, but also fair to the other girls. Even with Marianne Vos out due to surgery she ain't gonna bump any of these girls:

Annemarie Worst
Ceylin Del Carmen Alvarado
Lucinda Brand
Yara Kastelijn

so that would mean that one week before the event they'd drop one of:

Sophie De Boer (who admittedly hasn't been her strongest), Geerte Hoeke or Maud Kapthejins.

OK sure, Betsema was far superior last year to any of those last three, but this is an honor for these girls, to be one of the 6. Would suck to be pulled last minute for someone who 72 hours ago was serving a suspension and whether intentional or not had steroids in her system for some (all) of that miracle season she had.

[Mark McM]

I don't think most of the women's pro peloton has enough $$ to afford doping products or pay for doping products when they DO win races.

Men? Different story. Careers can be made by winning stages or spring classics

M

This almost sounds like an argument against a minimum rider salary for the women (keeping them poor keeps them from doping). That's ludicrous.

I suspect that doping products aren't that expensive, depending on how you source them (such as Mexican pharmacies, or "that guy" at the gym). I suspect it is the professional doping assistance that costs money.

As far as prizes, salaries and career boots incentivizing riders to dope: History has shown that riders don't need these incentives, based on the amount of doping that has been found in the ranks of amateurs and age group competitors. And that goes for cheating in general - just go over to https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/ and you'll find plenty of stories of people who cheat for nothing more than a good Instagram story.

[m_sasso]

I don't know what kind of athlete and their level of awareness about her or his performance abilities doesn't evaluate changes in performance relatative to competitors and personal past history.

At 66 I still take part in some competitive track cycling and I certainly monitor my performance. When my performance changes, good or bad I want to know why ASAP.

Sorry, don't believe an athlete at almost any level doesn't have a clue what's going on. Thumbs down!

[sipmeister]

The UCI is a joke. But then again so is FIFA, the NFL, the NBA, F1....the list goes on.

Every human being is a joke. All you have to is read the news or step outside and watch civilization. But seriously, I wouldn't trust supplements. Not very well regulated and a new one a week. Exactly how many cyclists in the peloton are taking them just to recover better or whatever?
I'm glad she's back. Same with Riis. Some mistakes are intentional. Some are not. I don't know the situation or the whole story. Not gonna make an assumption or come to a conclusion based on the facts or info I have, because even those are limiting. I'm gonna guess these folks and people in general inherently have good intentions, unless proven otherwise.

[Clancy]

I don't know what kind of athlete and their level of awareness about her or his performance abilities doesn't evaluate changes in performance relatative to competitors and personal past history.

At 66 I still take part in some competitive track cycling and I certainly monitor my performance. When my performance changes, good or bad I want to know why ASAP.

Sorry, don't believe an athlete at almost any level doesn't have a clue what's going on. Thumbs down!


A serious question. If an athlete takes a tainted product, a product or supplement that has some prohibited substance, how is that different then a person eating a Subway sandwich with e-coli? I’m not being flippant. In each case the person consumes something that has been contaminated that they are unaware of and would not consume if they were.

In the case of an athlete the question then becomes were they truly unaware.

[oldpotatoe]

A serious question. If an athlete takes a tainted product, a product or supplement that has some prohibited substance, how is that different then a person eating a Subway sandwich with e-coli? I’m not being flippant. In each case the person consumes something that has been contaminated that they are unaware of and would not consume if they were.

In the case of an athlete the question then becomes were they truly unaware.

YUP....Have no idea but a little google-foo and knowledge of any 'contamination' in the supplement and chances of being popped. Plus with weight lifting partner...smells like a duck. :)

[glepore]

Occam's razor folks. The UCI didn't hand out a light punishment because they love her. They obviously accepted as credible her defense, and she was able to show contamination.

Now, here's a sick thought. Suppose I was doping with an anabolic. I'm also using a compounding pharmacy with whom I have a "relationship". Geez, it might make sense to have my supplement compounded with a trace of the anabolic just in case my doping strategy is off...

Hmmmm.

[chiasticon]

Yeah, my question wasn't only if it's technically possible, but also fair to the other girls. Even with Marianne Vos out due to surgery she ain't gonna bump any of these girls:

Annemarie Worst
Ceylin Del Carmen Alvarado
Lucinda Brand
Yara Kastelijn

so that would mean that one week before the event they'd drop one of:

Sophie De Boer (who admittedly hasn't been her strongest), Geerte Hoeke or Maud Kapthejins.

OK sure, Betsema was far superior last year to any of those last three, but this is an honor for these girls, to be one of the 6. Would suck to be pulled last minute for someone who 72 hours ago was serving a suspension and whether intentional or not had steroids in her system for some (all) of that miracle season she had.yeah she won't bump those top four for sure. the other three, different story. assuming Betsema is near what she was last season, at least.

the other thing is I believe that the world cup winner gets automatic entry to World Championships, and doesn't count against your nation's "allowance" of riders (or whatever). that's how it worked for the men last year at least; since Toon Aerts won the WC overall, Belgium could send more men to Worlds and Tim Merlier got that spot (it was even joked that Wout intentionally lost the WC overall at Hoogerheide so his buddy Merlier could race worlds ;)). so anyway... since Alvardo leads WC, with Worst in 2nd and Van Der Heijden in 4th, they have a good chance of a Dutch woman winning the overall. and thus may easily have room for Betsema.

[pbarry]

...and yeah, dopers suck. ...which leads me to the 'worship' of Pantani. Confuses the crap outta me. You either did or did not dope. You can't hate one without hating them all: Pantani, Armstrong, Virenque, Ullrich, et al all come to mind.



I reserve the right to hate selectively, even capriciously.

[Tandem Rider]

Occam's razor folks. The UCI didn't hand out a light punishment because they love her. They obviously accepted as credible her defense, and she was able to show contamination.

Now, here's a sick thought. Suppose I was doping with an anabolic. I'm also using a compounding pharmacy with whom I have a "relationship". Geez, it might make sense to have my supplement compounded with a trace of the anabolic just in case my doping strategy is off...

Hmmmm.

My mind went down a similar rabbit hole, some anabolic steroids are oral, just have your pharmacist put them in, take them that way. If caught, just make sure you have at least 1 unopened bottle on hand at all times.

[Tandem Rider]

As far as prizes, salaries and career boots incentivizing riders to dope: History has shown that riders don't need these incentives, based on the amount of doping that has been found in the ranks of amateurs and age group competitors. And that goes for cheating in general - just go over to https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/ and you'll find plenty of stories of people who cheat for nothing more than a good Instagram story.

I have seen riders dope in Master's racing. Believe me, there's no money in Master's racing, I was usually just getting my entry fee back, sometimes enough for gas money too. It's not about the money.

[oldpotatoe]

I reserve the right to hate selectively, even capriciously.

Mee too..I dislike those dopers who were also pri@ks, like LA7..I also don't like those that were part of a doping 'machine', and now profit off their 'racer' heritage, even tho tainted(like Hincapie)...

The ones that admit it, say that everybody was too(they were), take their lumps and press on...I'm ok with that....like Riis.

[GregL]

Mee too..I dislike those dopers who were also pri@ks, like LA7..I also don't like those that were part of a doping 'machine', and now profit off their 'racer' heritage, even tho tainted(like Hincapie)...
Can't disagree with you. This probably won't give you too much enjoyment...

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/it-will-cost-you-dollar30000-to-ride-with-lance-armstrong-for-a-week/

Greg

[rain dogs]

he other thing is I believe that the world cup winner gets automatic entry to World Championships, and doesn't count against your nation's "allowance" of riders (or whatever).

Hey, I didn't know that it worked this way. You learn something new. Unless Ceylin and Worst take each other out in some bizarro happening I can't see anyone but one of them winning.

Somehow*, it just sits a little better with me if Betsema isn't there, maybe that's not fair.... but if she misses the important races of the season plus with all the races lost thus far, if feels like an actual 6 month ban.

I guess the saving grace if not is that she's basically have to start in last. I dunno. If she's not there I won't miss her. If she is, I'll try my best to ignore her.

* I'm not the type who usually wishes ill to an athlete, so maybe this is me doing that. I just think if it's a 6 month ban, you should actually miss 6 months of races you want to race.

[BdaGhisallo]

Hey, I didn't know that it worked this way. You learn something new. Unless Ceylin and Worst take each other out in some bizarro happening I can't see anyone but one of them winning.

Somehow*, it just sits a little better with me if Betsema isn't there, maybe that's not fair.... but if she misses the important races of the season plus with all the races lost thus far, if feels like an actual 6 month ban.

I guess the saving grace if not is that she's basically have to start in last. I dunno. If she's not there I won't miss her. If she is, I'll try my best to ignore her.

* I'm not the type who usually wishes ill to an athlete, so maybe this is me doing that. I just think if it's a 6 month ban, you should actually miss 6 months of races you want to race.

I am sure that CX races are not the only races that Betsema would ride over the course of a season. She came from the MTB side and I would imagine that she might do a few of those and a few road races to maintain her fitness for CX season. Her six month ban covered the times when those races would be happening. Remember, it is a ban from UCI sanctioned competition and not a ban from CX races.


We can't have a situation where the UCI or WADA gets into the business of determining when and where a ban might come into force to increase the impact of a ban from competition. The fairest outcome is that the ban starts from the time of the infraction when the athlete is first removed from competition.

[rain dogs]

I am sure that CX races are not the only races that Betsema would ride over the course of a season. She came from the MTB side and I would imagine that she might do a few of those and a few road races to maintain her fitness for CX season. Her six month ban covered the times when those races would be happening. Remember, it is a ban from UCI sanctioned competition and not a ban from CX races.


We can't have a situation where the UCI or WADA gets into the business of determining when and where a ban might come into force to increase the impact of a ban from competition. The fairest outcome is that the ban starts from the time of the infraction when the athlete is first removed from competition.

Oh I realize that entirely. I'm talking my personal preference. I would prefer that if strict liability is the concept they are enforcing that perhaps no suspension should be less than 1 year... then you don't have this "offseason" confusion.

Katie Compton and Katerina Nash said basically the same. I think some people are frustrated at the massive reduction. Bans now are to be 4 years... from that to 6 months (half of which are in the 'off-season) seems like quite the massive reduction.

Anyway. again. Just IMHO

[SpaceOdyssey]

2nd today at the C2......

[72gmc]

Good on her for turning months of training, more rest than her competitors, and anabolic steroids into a podium finish.

[SpaceOdyssey]

To be clear - NOT a supporter

I believe she should have been gone for a much longer time

I am suspicious of any results from now on

[rain dogs]

Let's see how/if she does when there are the star girls racing. With all due respect to the girls that were out today, I think there were only 9 of 37? 38? who are on actual pro teams. Betsema being one of those 9. I don't think there was a single one of the top 15 girls racing, likely cause of the world cup tomorrow, but I could be wrong.... didn't see all the names.

[SpaceOdyssey]

Many of the women took today off but the pros who did show are not chopped liver either

[Ruimteaapje]

Betsema did not come out of the blue. She already was an accomplished mountainbiker (which is far more competitive intenationally)

MTB:

2017:
1e NL CUP Kivada Berlicum (elite dames)
4e Coupe de France Marseille eliminator (elite dames)
2e Ssangyong Beneluxcup MTB Eupen (elite dames)
1e Eindklassement Ssangyong Beneluxcup MTB (u23/elite dames)

2016:
2e Pearl Izumi Beneluxcup Sittard-Geleen (elite dames)
Wereldkampioene wielrennen (amateurs/masters)
2e Pearl Izumi Benelux Cup Landgraaf (elite dames)
1e MTB Cup Heeswijk-Dinther (elite dames)
1e Zwiep Trek MTB Cup (elite dames)
3e MPL Stappenbelt Trophy Apeldoorn (elite dames)

2015:
1e eindklassement MTB Rabotop NH dames (dames)

2011:
2e Noordelijke MTB Trophy Norg (junior vrouwen)

2010:
2e Stappenbelt MTB Trophy Apeldoorn (junior vrouwen)
2e Van Paas Bike van Tuyl Nieuwkuijk (junior vrouwen

2009:
1e eindklassement MTB Rabotop NH dames (dames)
2e Kampioenschap van Hoorn (nieuweling meisjes)

2008:
1e eindklassement MTB Rabotop competitie dames (dames)

2006:
Nederlands Kampioene Mountainbiken (categorie 6)

http://www.deniesoverseas.com/uitslagen-kalender/palmares-2/

She then started to do some CX races. Given how easy it is for newcomers, teenagers as well as 40-year olds to compete at the top it seems evident that it is relatively easy to enter the sport at a high level and that all in all the top in women CX is not very broad. She won a couple of smaller races - away from the big names and the cameras - started to train specifically for CX, lost almost 10 kilos and - hey presto - turns out that she could compete against the top of the field. I honestly see nothing weird or suspicious in her rise to the top.

[Ruimteaapje]

BTW, not selected for the WC

https://sporza.be/nl/2020/01/26/denise-betsema-zit-niet-in-nederlandse-wk-selectie/?fbclid=IwAR1fdCOV1zZMJgEXJWBTEPsJxSH9ogWSHuJf3J7a bcDM6WmTPjjMLfcv3YY

[BdaGhisallo]

BTW, not selected for the WC

https://sporza.be/nl/2020/01/26/denise-betsema-zit-niet-in-nederlandse-wk-selectie/?fbclid=IwAR1fdCOV1zZMJgEXJWBTEPsJxSH9ogWSHuJf3J7a bcDM6WmTPjjMLfcv3YY

It's likely due to the height of her headset stack! Holy Spacers, Batman!


Probably for the better. The KNWU will surely be happy to not induce any more controversy. Leaving her at home allows things to simmer down for a bit.

[Ruimteaapje]

That, or more likely the fact that she isn't a serious contender at the moment. Her second place yesterday behind Majerus was nice but none of the top riders was there (Majerus was far behind in the field today in Hoogerheide) and in the interview after the race she said she had a hard time riding at race pace again after all those months.

[rain dogs]

Betsema did not come out of the blue.

She then started to do some CX races. Given how easy it is for newcomers, teenagers as well as 40-year olds to compete at the top it seems evident that it is relatively easy to enter the sport at a high level and that all in all the top in women CX is not very broad. She won a couple of smaller races - away from the big names and the cameras - started to train specifically for CX, lost almost 10 kilos and - hey presto - turns out that she could compete against the top of the field. I honestly see nothing weird or suspicious in her rise to the top.

Good that she's not there. That's the prudent decision and fair to the other girls. Shows some class that Betsema recognizes as much.

I think the above statement is a little disrespectful to the girls that are competing in womens elite CX. Marianne Vos (33 yrs old, and arguably the greatest female cyclist of all time) is one of those girls and she doesn't win unchallenged, in fact she often gets beaten.

You may "see nothing weird or suspicious in her rise" but that fact is, whether intentional or not, she HAD steroids in her system. She didn't get a reduced suspension because she didn't take 'roids, it was reduced because they were 100% there, but there "accidentally".

So, she competed on steroids. Maybe that's not weird. Nor suspicious (unfortunately in cycling).... but it sure ain't right. So, fine, she's been 'punished' (some like Compton would say lightly) and we'll see how she does now, next season.

Good race today. A little bummed for Ceylin, who I was rooting for to close the deal, but she's still so young she'll have lots of wins ahead.

[Ruimteaapje]

I don't think stating that the top is not very broad is disrespectful at all. It is merely a statement of fact.

[SpaceOdyssey]

Statement of opinion

The variety of countries represented, ages of competitors etc would lead some to opine that the women’s fields have never been stronger or more varied

[pasadena]

agree
Statement of opinion

The variety of countries represented, ages of competitors etc would lead some to opine that the women’s fields have never been stronger or more varied

With Brand, Worst and Alvarado - all of them probably against having Betsema in the Olympic team, the squad is set and looks to be a very strong team for the Olympic podium.

[e-RICHIE]

agree


With Brand, Worst and Alvarado - all of them probably against having Betsema in the Olympic team, the squad is set and looks to be a very strong team for the Olympic podium.

What Olympic team?

[pasadena]

Sorry, I meant Worlds