Real life experience with 1 bike - two wheelsets?

[MattTuck]

I've recently been digging the Crumpton Type 5 All Road bike, which is billed as
Utilizing the same flat-mount brake and 12x142 through axle standards we’ve redesigned the chain stays to accommodate more tire clearance. Maintaining the goal of being able to run full size road gearing and typical road geometry the new Type 5 All-Road accommodates up to 700c x 40 as well as 650b x 50 making it the ideal choice for those looking to pound pavement on Saturday and grind gravel on Sunday.

Now, let's be clear... I don't have the cash to buy this a bike. But the concept is intriguing and attractive on a couple levels. I am sure a respected builder could accomplish something similar in steel or Ti. I'm just curious if anyone has such a set up and if they are actually realizing the vision of switching the two wheel sets with regularity... or if it is just a dream, and you end up sticking with one set, and letting the other languish in the garage.

https://www.crumptoncycles.com/images/hn3gkt04scqp.jpg

[TheseGoTo11]

Well, not exactly, but...I bought a Bombtrack Audax (http://bombtrack.com/road/audax/) frameset last spring with the idea that I wanted high volume 650b wheels with more of a road-like geometry (not the long chainstays and slack headtube of many "gravel" bikes). I didn't necessarily intend to swap wheelsets. Having ridden the bike for the past 7 odd months, it definitely is what I had in mind. It's fendered up with fat 650's for the winter, but it's rated to clear 700x35 tires, too, and I feel would be a capable road bike with that setup. If I didn't already have a road bike with similar wheels, I'd likely swap, but have the luxury of a two-steed road stable.

Anyway, you might check this out. Could be the more affordable alternative to that lovely Crumpton. Happy to answer any questions about the Bombtrack.

[Duende]

Yes. Last weekend I rode the Sf city loop on Saturday, and did wildcat canyon on Sunday. I love swapping out my wheels and hitting the trails or road depending on my mood.

It’s really the perfect solution for me. If I was racing or a serious downhill MTB rider then, I’d probably need another bike or two. But for my needs, it suits me fine. So glad I finally bit the bullet and bought a second set of wheels!

[davidb]

Run two sets all the time. However, I use the same brand/model of hubs laced to different rims. Then it really is as easy as just axle out - wheel off -wheel in - axle in = go ride. I know that all hubs are supposed to be spaced the same. With disc you need to things to be exactly the same, cassette/chain line and rotor. Well, most hubs get one the same. I have has the scenario that requires adjust rear derailleur set screws and or caliper alignment. In that case, you are right one wheelset just sits, becomes dusty and unused.

[joosttx]

I had a winter and a spring, summer and fall set of wheels. I rode my winter wheels in the wet winter and the other set when the weather was nice .

[Ken Robb]

I had two sets of wheels for my Rambouillet with 700x25 tires on one set and 700x35 on the other and swapped them around to suit my planned rides. Because the Rambo is spaced at 132.5mm in back I got some XT hubs with Mavic touring rims but I was happy with both size tires on Open Pros so I never used the wider rim set. I did have to let a little air out of the wider tires to squeeze them past the brakes that we adjusted to suit the OP rims.

[Spdntrxi]

I had originally purchased a Parlee Z-Zero XD (much like that Crumpton in looks and cost) with that in mind. Love the bike..semi-weight weenied to a limit since I wanted to take it off-road still.... Long story short despite a lightweight skinny tire setup it ( and I mean I) came up a little short on the faster group rides.

I still have 3 wheel sets I use with the bike.. road only and 2 650b setups and still love it, but it's now definitely more of a GRAVEL bike now. Suspension stem, dropper post , 1x drivetrain and ~8kg.

Purchased another Aero Road machine for those Saturdays on the rivet.

[fa63]

Similar experience here. My Argon18 Dark Matter rides fine with skinny road tires, but when the pace picks up, I am happier when I am on my Felt FR.

If most of my rides were solo, I would be happy riding the Argon18 all the time.

I had originally purchased a Parlee Z-Zero XD (much like that Crumpton in looks and cost) with that in mind. Love the bike..semi-weight weenied to a limit since I wanted to take it off-road still.... Long story short despite a lightweight skinny tire setup it ( and I mean I) came up a little short on the faster group rides.

I still have 3 wheel sets I use with the bike.. road only and 2 650b setups and still love it, but it's now definitely more of a GRAVEL bike now. Suspension stem, dropper post , 1x drivetrain and ~8kg.

Purchased another Aero Road machine for those Saturdays on the rivet.

[redir]

I think that's pretty cool. You can put some nice fat tires on the 650's and it almost has the same circumference as a road tire on the 700c.

[Lanternrouge]

If you think a two-wheel setup can work for your, an Open might be just enough bike to help you feel like you don't really need to get the Crumpton so you may be able to go through with it. Of course, I think my money no object bike would be exactly what you're looking at right now.

[Kirk007]

I think you need to know how big you want/need to go. For road riding I much prefer a 700 x 26-28 tire, which has about the same circumference as a 650b x 42. A 650B x 47mm is roughly the same circumference as a 700c x 38, which I find too big for my liking on the road. So which range do you optimize for? 650 x 42 may be a bit too small for really rough stuff but if you design the bike around 650b x 47 then you may be changng things like bottom bracket height that impact the ride on the road with smaller tires. I think you can get a reasonable compromise, but it's still a compromise at one end or the other.

I like my 333Fab AirLandSeawith 650b x 47 tires, it does less for me with 700c wheels. If it was a one and only bike I could live with it but it's not the ideal bike for every ride.

All that said I would trust Nick to be able to pull together a killer bike.

[AZR3]

ive been living with a single bike and two wheels sets for almost two years and so far I have no regrets. I have an Exploro and switch between 650b with 47mm gravel tires and aero 56mm deep road wheels with 28mm tires. I’m running 1x so it might be a little constrained as far as gearing for certain days but a cassette/chainring swap and I’m good to go.

[d_douglas]

I see no reason why it wouldn’t work as long as you stay within the bounds of recommended tire volume.

I bought a 650b wheelset for my redline today commuter and while it looks awesome, I feel that it rides better at 700c. This may be as the result of it being ‘old geometry’ (aka level top tube and near road geometry).

I sold the wheels and am convinced that 29er is my size, with my mtb being the outlier.



.** you really should buy that Crumpton though ;)

[SeanScott]

I have a 1 bike 2 wheel set-up and so far it doesn't work perfectly.
Both the brakes and shifting need adjusting everytime I swap.
It is di2 and disc with two differnt types of wheel sets, same cassette.
I believe in order to make it work everything should be identical.

[merckx]

Back in the day everyone had one bicycle, and two pair of wheels. One pair was a set of MA40s for training. In the shoulder seasons I would mount a pair of Michelin Hi-Lite 28c cross tires on them and ride the local dirt roads. This was in the 1980's. Most steel Italian framesets accommodated tires of this size. Otherwise, the MA40s would be the standard training wheelset. The other pair of wheels were a pair of tubs. These were usually GP4s, or GL330s. They were mounted for competitive events. This is all that was ever necessary. We were happy to have one good machine, a couple of wheelsets, and a good pair of shoes.

[Jef58]

Not carbon, but a bike that gets overlooked is Hampsten's Strada Bianca. To me, that was a bike a few years ahead the all arounder segment and does exactly what this Crumpton does. I would buy one in Ti if I lived in an area that would utilize the bigger tire/on/off road riding.

[merckx]

Before I get tackled from my previous post, my point is to keep everything simple. You don't need a lot of equipment to find enjoyment in the sport, or to have an exceptional athletic experience. You don't need to chase perfection before you are allowed to enjoy the sport. Just because the market is offering a heap of crap, it doesn't mean that you have to consume it. I have found that the less convoluted things are, the more I enjoy the essence of simply leveraging my body forward on my bicycle.

[Kyle h]

I hear awesome things about the Allied AR for this purpose. I have a set of “road” wheels I use on my Firefly AR and on my Parlee Chebacco I had before, which have tubeless 30c tires and while it makes for a nice road ride, it falls flat quickly on fast road rides. The AR bikes just look a bit absurd with 25 or 28 tires which is why I’ve never ran them but I’m sure that would help a bit.

[Bob Ross]

My wife has a gorgeous titanium all-road that Carl Strong built for her about two years ago. The design brief was that it needed to take up to 700x38 knobbies with fenders, but still handle like a road bike when shod with 700x28 slicks.

Pretty sure if she lost the fender requirement this frame could take 700x40 easily.

Anyhow, she got it with two identical sets of wheels, one which wears Conti GP4000S in 28mm and the other Kenda Small Block 8 in 35mm, and she just changes out wheels depending on where she's going that day.

If I had space for another bike I'd probably do the same.

[Hakkalugi]

Absolutely. My fatbike gets 650b 2.6 in the summer, my gravel bike has 2 wheel sets. (650&700), my son’s now-too-small Diamondback 650c also ran 26” cx wheels. Worst case scenario is a few minutes with a 5mm Allen adjusting brakes, best case is matching hubs and rotors. Having different wheels for a single frame is really great and allows the bike to change personality.

[fignon's barber]

…. Love the bike..semi-weight weenied to a limit since I wanted to take it off-road still.... Long story short despite a lightweight skinny tire setup it ( and I mean I) came up a little short on the faster group rides......

Purchased another Aero Road machine for those Saturdays on the rivet.


This. OP, it depends on the type of riding you do. If you do highly competitive rides, all road bikes don't cut it. If that's the case, I'd look at a full on road bike, probably disc, that can take 28-30mm tires. Maybe something like a Colnago V3RS, or a custom frame.

[GregL]

My gravel/all-road bike works great with two wheelsets. That’s what I do for our family vacations. For fast road rides, I run one wheelset with an 11-28 cassette and 700x25 tires. For gravel and light single track, it’s an 11-34 and 700x38 Gravel King SKs. According to Strava, I’m less than a minute slower on the toughest paved climb near our camp (3+ miles, average 5%) compared to my road racing bike.

Greg

[oldpotatoe]

I know that all hubs are supposed to be spaced the same.

Not exactly..'General specs' the same but actual dimensions are not, between different manufacturers..in fact, a lot of same hub swap needs a wee bit of tweaking..Through axle has helped that a lot.

[Duende]

DT Swiss hubs (off road) and Campy Hub (road) shimmed... works perfectly. No adjustments to rear derailleur needed. 11-34 and 11-32 cassettes too. :).

Just took a little time to dial in, but no big deal really.

[Gummee]

I haven't ridden my 2 new CX bikes on the Wed Night Worlds rides, but I HAVE ridden my Boone on it. Got some road wheels/tires and went at it. It wasn't the Boone's fault I got dropped on Waterfall.

'Course, I typically run 34/50 in the front so I wasn't giving up too much in the way of gearing.

I have some Nextie/FN Aero rims coming for a disc aero road bike, but I'll toss em on the CX bike(s) and see how that works 'for kicks.'

The disc areo road bike has 50/34 rings on it now 'cause Praxis didn't have any full-size rings available for the crank I'm running

M

[Miller76]

I spent a lot of time going back on forth on this idea a few years ago. I still don’t have the “right” bike but it’s a good good enough for now. I ended up with a Mason Bokeh that is designed for both 650b and 700c. Gearing is 50/34 up front and 11/34 on the rear. When I ordered it I went for 650b with the mindset of getting a nice set of 700c hoops for it at some stage. With 650b it’s great, I rode it at D2R2 with 650b, but when I found a good deal on some 700c wheels from Reynolds, I jumped. That’s been 18 months now and I’ve not put the 650b back on once. The 650b wheelset has very heavy tires with a very aggressive tread pattern.

I’m hoping to fit some narrower tires on the 700c and use it for the weekly saturday shop road ride. With narrower tires on the 700c wheels I hope that it pushes me to find a nicer set of tires in 650b for the gravel loops I enjoy out around Bedminster NJ.


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[doomridesout]

I've been riding a Seven Evergreen designed around either 650x42 or 700x28 as my only bike for the last year and a half. If I was in better shape, I'd miss having a pure road bike for the fast rides. As it is, I'm going to be dropped by my fast friends when the pace goes up either way. I'm pretty happy with my choice, and particularly with 650b for mixed surface riding. My favorite rides are 80% bad pavement, 20% gravel. 650b slicks help the paved part feel fast without being undergunned on the dirt.

Riding with 700x28s, the bike feels like 95% of my old road bikes, which is all I really need.

[zambenini]

I have been doing this with a serotta cx for a bit. Bike is good enough on the road for fun, but I am not a racer any more and don't ride group rides. It would be fine if I did but not as spirited. I would say one bike to rule them all is good with two wheelsets, but if space allows (and in my case money and time are the determining factors) then two bikes is better. The wheelsets I had were similar enough though that the differences were somewhat mino, but I suppose if you had some really fast ones?

[benb]

I would like to do this, I've tried it in the past with my All City Space Horse.. not really to great success.

I would like to try this again to simplify the stable. (Though I only have 3 bikes).

Since I'm in Boston the Seven Evergreen would be way up my list to try it too. Even if it wasn't Seven I would likely want to think about Custom for this.

My impression is this use case is very sensitive to the geometry. You need to get the balance just right or you compromise the handling too much with one wheelset or the other if the size difference in tires is too large. Also it seems foregone in this discussion but I feel like making this work really requires disc brakes as well. With rim brakes the caliper mount points become a big deal to get right to get it working on both wheelsets and kind of restrict you to both wheelsets being the same width.

I have not tried it with a 650b/700c setup, maybe that makes the geometry changes easier to get around? What I ran into with my Space Horse was:

1) Since it's rim brake (Canti/V) if I ran a faster setup with a normal rim I had trouble getting the brakes right because the big tire wheelset was wider.

2) If you go from a 25c setup to a 38-40c setup the handling difference is pretty large and/or annoying. My bike really likes the bigger tires & doesn't like tires too small. A 32c set for the "fast" setup and a 38-40c for the "dirt" setup is about the most I can vary. You get used to it and the bike is totally stable at all speeds but it feels like the steering is too fast if you use tires that are too small.

My bike also does not fit me perfectly. Contact points are fine but it's not a frame that really fits me perfect so that is a factor in the handling.

Theoretically I'm at a point where the right bike like this could be my only bike. I don't MTB that much anymore, and I am not likely to start doing more dangerous/reckless/risky MTB in my 40s & 50s. If I get rid of the MTB then I don't really need two different road bikes. Having two does allow one to be cheaper so I don't feel worried about locking it up/commuting/whatever though, and two is better for avoiding maintenance downtime.

[NHAero]

I'd look into this if I was living in a small urban apartment. As it is, I have the space, and I have the Firefly pure road bike wearing 700x28, the Anderson with 700x37 and fenders, hbar bag, and a rack, and the Litespeed dropbar 26er with 26x2.2 file tread tires, and each has a easily defined niche depending on where I'm riding that day. It's pretty nice to just pick the bike off the hook and go.

[sparky33]

I've recently been digging the Crumpton Type 5 All Road bike, which is billed as
https://www.crumptoncycles.com/images/hn3gkt04scqp.jpg

My Firefly #831 is nearly identical in concept to the Crumpton T5 A R there. Same 383 a-c Whisky fork, road geo, short chainstays, same clearances. This is a roadie’s all-road bike. With 28s and mid depth wheels, it feels like a road bike. With 650b it tackles mild gravel well. If that’s your range, then it works beautifully. For Upper Valley riding...perfect.

That said, you would be underbiking on chunky gravel or rocky rooty trails...because tight geometry, roadie position, road gearing and tires. Does that matter?

A degree slacker here, a couple centimeters taller there, a burlier tire, lower gearing....that’s a different kind of all road gravel bike that doesn’t relate to your road bike with a just a wheel&tire change. I guess I’m saying that having a couple wheels set is actually a good idea if you are content with the variations it allows.

[spoonrobot]

It's kind of a pain in the ass compared to just having two bikes. Even with the rotors shimmed and matched spare chains there's always some little issue that needs to be trimmed up before the bike is ready to ride. Add in tubeless and you've got another thing to keep track of.

I race crits on 700cx38 and then when that season ends go to 700cx44 knobbies for gravel racing. When I go on the road for work I take the bike and both wheelsets but when I'm home I just have another bike that wears knobbies all the time.

If you have the money and space, a second bike is far superior.

[colker]

Back in the day everyone had one bicycle, and two pair of wheels. One pair was a set of MA40s for training. In the shoulder seasons I would mount a pair of Michelin Hi-Lite 28c cross tires on them and ride the local dirt roads. This was in the 1980's. Most steel Italian framesets accommodated tires of this size. Otherwise, the MA40s would be the standard training wheelset. The other pair of wheels were a pair of tubs. These were usually GP4s, or GL330s. They were mounted for competitive events. This is all that was ever necessary. We were happy to have one good machine, a couple of wheelsets, and a good pair of shoes.

Long horizontal drop outs do the trick, right?

[merckx]

Long horizontal drop outs do the trick, right?

If what you mean is that it was not a one-trick-pony, you are correct.

[Ken Robb]

A degree slacker here actually a good idea if you are content with the variations it allows.

Jeez, I thought you were referring to a recent graduate who is unemployed. :)

[ariw]

I hear awesome things about the Allied AR for this purpose. I have a set of “road” wheels I use on my Firefly AR and on my Parlee Chebacco I had before, which have tubeless 30c tires and while it makes for a nice road ride, it falls flat quickly on fast road rides. The AR bikes just look a bit absurd with 25 or 28 tires which is why I’ve never ran them but I’m sure that would help a bit.

Following this because I have been thinking quite a bit about a Chebacco with 2 wheelsets as a backup road bike and gravel bike.

-Ari

[Kyle h]

Following this because I have been thinking quite a bit about a Chebacco with 2 wheelsets as a backup road bike and gravel bike.

-Ari

The Chebacco is an absolute rockstar of a bike. I came across a Firefly Ti-Carbon with an almost identical geo which is why I sold it. I had mine specd with 43c Gravelking SK on HED Belgium rims for gravel and it was an awesome setup that did Belgian Waffle Ride, Old Growth Classic, MonsterCross and a bunch more gravel events in PA and the mid-Atlantic region. I race bikes with a main C1-2 group and honestly, those group road rides were really where I’d suffer on the Parlee. I ran the Spec Roubaix Pro on the road which roll fast but gearing and the position are too big of a limiter here in Western PA. I have a soft spot for the Chebacco and would recommend one without hesitation. If you’re road riding is less dick measuring and more chill you could easily get away with it on the Parlee. A set of mid-depth carbon wheels and 28s would make a really nice compromise.

[Bob Ross]

you would be underbiking on chunky gravel or rocky rooty trails...because tight geometry, roadie position, road gearing and tires.

I don't disagree, but I will point out that there seems to be a fairly populous and active contingent of gravel riders (at least in my neck of the woods) whose entire raison d'être is to push the envelope of what kind of terrain you can ride on a drop-bar bike.

I asked a friend why he didn't just bring his full-squish 29er on some of the super-gnarly singletrack rides and he said "that would make it too easy."

I think some cycling enthusiasts measure the satisfaction they got from a ride by how challenging it was...the whole "Groadie" movement seems tailor-made for those folks.

[sparky33]

Jeez, I thought you were referring to a recent graduate who is unemployed. :)

I should have been a degree slacker. This job thing is a lot of work. :banana:

[Hilltopperny]

I believe it can be done by those of us who don’t have a need to be the fastest, don’t race competitively and don’t do regular fast paced group rides much like myself. I have three wheelsets for my Drifter and truly thinking of selling off all of my road bikes to try this out for at least one year.

I do have two mountain bikes that I will use for Winter and local trails as well, but for the riding I do the Drifter is really all a guy like me really needs. I really like the way it rides in 650b mode with 42-48mm rubber and with 700c 35-38s. I am having a beater set of wheels built right now with a dynamo front hub and throwing on some challenge gravel grinder pro 36mm semi knobbies. I have a set of Hed Belgium+ laced to Chris King hubs and shod with Compass Bon Jons and a set of Reynolds ATR 650b with 42mm Soma Grand Randonneurs. There isn’t much I like to ride on that I can’t use these set ups for.


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[Black Dog]

Back in the day everyone had one bicycle, and two pair of wheels. One pair was a set of MA40s for training. In the shoulder seasons I would mount a pair of Michelin Hi-Lite 28c cross tires on them and ride the local dirt roads. This was in the 1980's. Most steel Italian framesets accommodated tires of this size. Otherwise, the MA40s would be the standard training wheelset. The other pair of wheels were a pair of tubs. These were usually GP4s, or GL330s. They were mounted for competitive events. This is all that was ever necessary. We were happy to have one good machine, a couple of wheelsets, and a good pair of shoes.

Truth.

[MattTuck]

I don't disagree, but I will point out that there seems to be a fairly populous and active contingent of gravel riders (at least in my neck of the woods) whose entire raison d'être is to push the envelope of what kind of terrain you can ride on a drop-bar bike.

I asked a friend why he didn't just bring his full-squish 29er on some of the super-gnarly singletrack rides and he said "that would make it too easy."


Yeah, I can understand that. Though I don't subscribe to that philosophy myself.

I believe it can be done by those of us who don’t have a need to be the fastest, don’t race competitively and don’t do regular fast paced group rides much like myself.

Exactly. In the search for simplicity, there is something really appealing about having a "road" bike (with two sets of wheels) that can essentially handle all the roads out there; and a hard tail mountain bike that can handle the trails. yeah, you may give up some of the top end speed of a pure road racing machine, and the suspension needed to tackle the gnarliest trails and big jumps... but you cover probably the middle 90% of the terrain and use cases out there. And, honestly, it would feel good to give the proverbial finger to the bike industry obsessed with selling ever more niche categories of bikes.

But, as some of you noted, that ideal could be a mirage. If you have to spend time fiddling with calipers and alignment issues every time you switch wheels, you may find yourself not wanting to switch wheels. And then your attempt to achieve simplicity through minimalism has failed.

Perhaps n+1 > n, after all.

[sparky33]

If you have to spend time fiddling with calipers and alignment issues every time you switch wheels, you may find yourself not wanting to switch wheels.

With thru-axles this isn't an issue if you have the same hubs and rotors on all your wheels. At the worst, you might have to loosen the caliper bolt a half turn and re-tighten to rotor alignment when changing wheels. Super simple once you get the hang of it.
Other concerns/intentions are well ahead of rotor alignment fiddly-ness in the pros/cons list.

[doomridesout]

I lived it: I had a Seven Evergreen built for 650x42 or 700x30 built in 2018 and got rid of a separate gravel bike and road bike. I ride the Seven for pretty much everything.

Overall, it’s been really good, although I might feel differently if I had the fitness to hang with the fast groups on the road. The Seven is slightly undergunned on either pure speed on good pavement or really chunky fire road. However, for the way I actually ride 95% of the time it’s perfect. I think there’s a great argument that in most places, the division between use cases between “road race” and “gravel” is not reflective of the riding you do. Where I live, most riding is mixed between tame dirt and awful pavement, including hammer rides, chill rides, whatever. If I lived in Europe with nice pavement I’d probably want a real road bike. Here, it’s great.

I will say I don’t swap wheels much. 650b slicks are so capable I leave them on most of the time.

[Hilltopperny]

Yeah, I can understand that. Though I don't subscribe to that philosophy myself.







Exactly. In the search for simplicity, there is something really appealing about having a "road" bike (with two sets of wheels) that can essentially handle all the roads out there; and a hard tail mountain bike that can handle the trails. yeah, you may give up some of the top end speed of a pure road racing machine, and the suspension needed to tackle the gnarliest trails and big jumps... but you cover probably the middle 90% of the terrain and use cases out there. And, honestly, it would feel good to give the proverbial finger to the bike industry obsessed with selling ever more niche categories of bikes.



But, as some of you noted, that ideal could be a mirage. If you have to spend time fiddling with calipers and alignment issues every time you switch wheels, you may find yourself not wanting to switch wheels. And then your attempt to achieve simplicity through minimalism has failed.



Perhaps n+1 > n, after all.



As Sparky33 stated it’s actually not that bad even if the hubs are different IME. A simple turn of a screw and slight readjustment if needed at all is all it really takes. I am going to see if I can get away with it for this year and see how it all goes.


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[Ken Robb]

I should have been a degree slacker. This job thing is a lot of work. :banana:

The first 40 years are the hardest. :)