Alchemy vs Allied

[njyeti]

Hi, after many mass production bikes (Cannondale, Felt, etc.) I'm leaning towards either the Alchemy Atlas or Allied Alfa Disc for something different. As I can't test ride either, I'm having a difficult time deciding as the builds are also the same.

Has anyone ridden both or at the least- have opinions on either?

Thanks!

[false_Aest]

Argonaut.
Crumpton

</thread>

[FlashUNC]

Neither. Gaulzetti Pavaix.

[bicycletricycle]

Ernesto says that Colnago is the best

[Hellgate]

Huffy

Murray


I'll get my coat...

[prototoast]

Between just the two, Alchemy bikes are tube-to-tube construction and can be made with custom geometry. Allied are molded and only come in stock geometry. Between the two, I'd go with Alchemy, but for custom carbon, some of the other options suggested in this thread are worth considering.

[Blue Jays]

If narrowed to those two brands...you could plan a mini-vacation to a city that has both of their retailers for true comparison.

[XXtwindad]

Alchemy (Joel) has fantastic customer service.

[XXtwindad]

Between just the two, Alchemy bikes are tube-to-tube construction and can be made with custom geometry. Allied are molded and only come in stock geometry. Between the two, I'd go with Alchemy, but for custom carbon, some of the other options suggested in this thread are worth considering.

And this guy makes some killer carbon frames too!

[Clean39T]

Argonaut.
Crumpton

GoFundMe
TimeMachine

</thread>

FTFY :banana:


.
.
.

I of course would also choose an Argonaut or Crumpton, funds permitting - actually, I'd get a Holland HC.....

https://bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/holland-cycles-HC-lugged-carbon-fiber-road-bike-nahsb2016-05.jpg

[Clean39T]

Seriously though, the Allied I had was exceptional - and I love that they make their own forks in house, which I don't believe Alchemy does.

Behold:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190626/d69a4d2f15c0c93f5b0ff950ce2dc363.jpg

[Andy sti]

FTFY :banana:


.
.
.

I of course would also choose an Argonaut or Crumpton, funds permitting

Umm, didn’t you have an Argonaut for a day or two?

[Lanternrouge]

A Holland even over a Crumpton? I do note that I get bike envy when I see a Holland carbon even when I’m on a Sarto or Parlee.

FTFY :banana:


I of course would also choose an Argonaut or Crumpton, funds permitting - actually, I'd get a Holland HC.....

https://bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/holland-cycles-HC-lugged-carbon-fiber-road-bike-nahsb2016-05.jpg

[Mustangski]

Between just the two, Alchemy bikes are tube-to-tube construction and can be made with custom geometry. Allied are molded and only come in stock geometry. Between the two, I'd go with Alchemy, but for custom carbon, some of the other options suggested in this thread are worth considering.

I believe Allied used to offer custom geometry with the Echo, however I don't see it on their website anymore.

I've had a thing for the red fade paint on the Allied for a while now, however I've never ridden one so can't comment on the ride quality.

[Clean39T]

A Holland even over a Crumpton? I do note that I get bike envy when I see a Holland carbon even when I’m on a Sarto or Parlee.

Yes, for the Mike Lopez fork and history of Bill's building - nothing against Crumpton, just a personal preference.

[Clean39T]

Umm, didn’t you have an Argonaut for a day or two?

Yeppers, for a hot minute - would have fit you perfectly, in case you forgot :D - was definitely a bit on the small side for me - and passing the screaming deal I got on it to a Paceline friend in SoCal was an alright outcome..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190208/d491fcab90d6162ed3e69cb6fb901120.jpg

[Blue Jays]

njyeti...to bring this conversation back to your bicycle selection...what do you want out of the bicycle chosen?
What are your typical rides like?
What kind of distance/speed/terrain?

[simonov]

Neither. Gaulzetti Pavaix.

Or Aerotack.

[njyeti]

njyeti...to bring this conversation back to your bicycle selection...what do you want out of the bicycle chosen?
What are your typical rides like?
What kind of distance/speed/terrain?


Hey Blue Jays, I'm looking for a bike for hard solo training rides. I race XC & CX and would be on this bike about 5 days a week doing intervals, tempo, etc.- but no racing on this bike. For 4+ hour rides I'd use my Synapse for the comfort.

Thanks!

[njyeti]

Seriously though, the Allied I had was exceptional - and I love that they make their own forks in house, which I don't believe Alchemy does.


How would you describe the ride quality and handling?

Also- sounds like you no longer have this bike- why'd you sell it?

[skiezo]

Sarto is also doing custom geo tube to to tube carbon. I had one built a few years ago. Wait was about 3/4 months when I had mine built.

[Dave M]

I'd go Alchemy over Allied based largely on my personal preference for tube to tube construction over a mold. You can't go wrong with Sarto either. But I'd put Nick Crumpton at the top of that list, especially if paying for custom. Not sure what his special sauce is, but the ride quality on my Corsa M is almost buttery while plenty stiff and ultra light. And his customer service is outstanding, even to a lowly second owner like me who wasn't the original buyer.

[Clean39T]

How would you describe the ride quality and handling?

Also- sounds like you no longer have this bike- why'd you sell it?

Ride quality and handling was pure road-racer - fast, confident, and precise. It seemed to absorb road chatter pretty well and didn't feel thrown off by unexpected bumps. The build was very clean inside and everything seemed tight and well-aligned.

Why did I sell it?

Well, other than me being me - it came to me with an aggressively cut steerer, and that forced a very long/low position for me. It was manageable for 50-70mi rides, I just didn't find myself wanting or needing to prioritize the speed of this bike and that position over the comfort and enjoyment of the ride and position of my other bikes - so I let it go. I think an Alfa Allroad disc would be a different story and would make a great "one-bike" option if you want to ride fondos and some dirt roads.....just don't whack the steerer the way mine was!

[Lanternrouge]

I'd go Alchemy over Allied based largely on my personal preference for tube to tube construction over a mold. You can't go wrong with Sarto either. But I'd put Nick Crumpton at the top of that list, especially if paying for custom. Not sure what his special sauce is, but the ride quality on my Corsa M is almost buttery while plenty stiff and ultra light. And his customer service is outstanding, even to a lowly second owner like me who wasn't the original buyer.

I believe that Sarto built the Corsa for Crumpton. As between Alchemy and Allied, I'd go for Alchemy since you can get it custom. If I could get any carbon frame regardless of cost, it would be a Crumpton. His bikes are costly due to the inefficiencies of basically building up everything (even the tubes) in house for the Type 5s. I realize there's a pretty big price gap between Alchemy and Allied to Crumpton. I'd recommend checking out Sarto. A great place to check out a bunch of custom builders is Blacksmith Cycles' website https://blacksmithcycle.com/ as they work with a lot of great builders.

[bart998]

Nobody has mentioned Landshark... John makes some beautiful bikes. https://landsharkbicycles.com/

[cgolvin]

Ernesto says that Colnago is the best

I got a good laugh out of that, way to keep it au courant bicycletricycle.

[mistermo]

I rode an Allied Alfa AR. I liked it so much that I ordered one. Depending on your size, Spot has some excellent deals on them right now. I preferred it to the OPEN UP, which I like very much too.

[John H.]

Out of those two- I would go Allied.
From what I have seen the quality control is better with Allied.

[Mikej]

Get a Trek, you are special enough to tell the difference.

[Dave M]

I believe that Sarto built the Corsa for Crumpton. As between Alchemy and Allied, I'd go for Alchemy since you can get it custom. If I could get any carbon frame regardless of cost, it would be a Crumpton. His bikes are costly due to the inefficiencies of basically building up everything (even the tubes) in house for the Type 5s. I realize there's a pretty big price gap between Alchemy and Allied to Crumpton. I'd recommend checking out Sarto. A great place to check out a bunch of custom builders is Blacksmith Cycles' website https://blacksmithcycle.com/ as they work with a lot of great builders.

Agreed -- Sartos rock. The Crumpton Corsa M was made by Nick in Texas. Corsa Team model was the one made in Italy -- by Sarto I believe.

njyeti -- do let us know what you ultimately decide.

[YesNdeed]

Welcome to The Paceline, njyeti. I have no experience with either brand, but I'm surprised Pursuit (https://www.pursuitcycles.com) hasn't been mentioned. Carl Strong and crew are making some nice looking frames up in Bozeman. Might be worth considering.

[soulspinner]

A Holland even over a Crumpton? I do note that I get bike envy when I see a Holland carbon even when I’m on a Sarto or Parlee.

:):):)

[kramnnim]

I saw my first Alchemy at NAHBS. Fell in love and after watching ebay for months, I bought a Helios.

It’s a nice frame, but...well, if anyone is interested in a 54cm rim brake electrical only Helios frame, let me know...

[sjbraun]

Another to consider: Hampsten’s Maglia Rosa. Custom tube to tube construction. Mine is quick, responsive and comfortable over any surface.

[njyeti]

I believe that Sarto built the Corsa for Crumpton. As between Alchemy and Allied, I'd go for Alchemy since you can get it custom. If I could get any carbon frame regardless of cost, it would be a Crumpton. His bikes are costly due to the inefficiencies of basically building up everything (even the tubes) in house for the Type 5s. I realize there's a pretty big price gap between Alchemy and Allied to Crumpton. I'd recommend checking out Sarto. A great place to check out a bunch of custom builders is Blacksmith Cycles' website https://blacksmithcycle.com/ as they work with a lot of great builders.

Thanks that Blacksmith site is very helpful. I'd love to go Crumpton or Argonaut- but thats a whole new arena in price!!

[soulspinner]

Argonaut.
Crumpton

</thread>

exactly what I thought.....

[njyeti]

I saw my first Alchemy at NAHBS. Fell in love and after watching ebay for months, I bought a Helios.

It’s a nice frame, but...well, if anyone is interested in a 54cm rim brake electrical only Helios frame, let me know...

Hi Kramnin, did you ever build up this frame? If so, why are you selling? (what didn't you like about it?)

Thanks

[Lanternrouge]

Another to consider: Hampsten’s Maglia Rosa. Custom tube to tube construction. Mine is quick, responsive and comfortable over any surface.

The Hampstens is very reasonably priced as these things go, with these things being Allied and Alchemy: $3600 painted or $4000 painted for a custom MUSA carbon bike.

[Jeff N.]

I can tell you that there are few...if any...custom carbon frames that surpass a Holland HC. NOT a cheap date though.

[kramnnim]

Hi Kramnin, did you ever build up this frame? If so, why are you selling? (what didn't you like about it?)

Thanks

Yep, I rode it maybe 1000 miles.

I think part of the problem is that I had wanted one for so long that it would have been very difficult for it to have lived up to the hype I had built up in my mind. It rides great, but is considerably heavier than my weight weenie frames that ride almost as well.

Also, I had it built up with etap and I really don’t like etap...I should try it with di2 or eps, will probably like it more.

[njyeti]

Yep, I rode it maybe 1000 miles.



I think part of the problem is that I had wanted one for so long that it would have been very difficult for it to have lived up to the hype I had built up in my mind. It rides great, but is considerably heavier than my weight weenie frames that ride almost as well.



Also, I had it built up with etap and I really don’t like etap...I should try it with di2 or eps, will probably like it more.Thanks, this is incredibly helpful insight. I'm fearful of this happening to me as my evo is also a weight weenie build and does already ride fairly comfortably. The higher weight of tube to tube does concern me a bit.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[prototoast]

Thanks, this is incredibly helpful insight. I'm fearful of this happening to me as my evo is also a weight weenie build and does already ride fairly comfortably. The higher weight of tube to tube does concern me a bit.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

While I know some tube-to-tube builders have built some great weightweenie frames, the tube-to-tube frames I make tend to come in around 1100 grams before paint. I want my frames to be ridden hard, and not babied. Carbon sometimes has a reputation as being fragile, but a carbon frame that weighed as much as a steel frame would be damn near indestructible. So in my mind, I'm not building a Supersix Evo that weights 50% more, I'm building a steel frame that weighs 30% less.

So with that said, make sure you're clear with any custom builder what you're looking for. Any builder should be able to make it clear to you what they can or cannot offer for you.

[kramnnim]

Thanks, this is incredibly helpful insight. I'm fearful of this happening to me as my evo is also a weight weenie build and does already ride fairly comfortably. The higher weight of tube to tube does concern me a bit.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Hmm, I had a himod Evo, from when they had 27.2mm seatposts. My Helios frame is almost a pound heavier.

[nicrump]

Agreed -- Sartos rock. The Crumpton Corsa M was made by Nick in Texas. Corsa Team model was the one made in Italy -- by Sarto I believe.

njyeti -- do let us know what you ultimately decide.

This is accurate.

[njyeti]

Plot twist- I'm going with a Seven titanium frameset (Axiom XX). Unless I bump up to the next price level for carbon (Crumpton, Argonaut, etc.) I'm worried it won't be enough of a difference from my Evo and I'll be always comparing it. With titanium's different feel hopefully this won't happen.

I'll post final build pictures when done- thanks again everyone for your feedback!

[njyeti]

Received the frameset from Seven! Build details w/ photos here: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2670309#post2670309

[bob heinatz]

I saw the pictures and that is a great looking ti bike. The build is also outstanding. Nice job.