A nice ride across the USA: 17 days.

[Too Tall]

It will take a village of forum will power for me, Queen and Znfndl to pull this off. The journey begins now. Training in ernest. No big search for the perfect saddle, forget about weekends it's time to TRAIN!!!! :rolleyes:
I hope to put up a website similar to the last trans-continental where you can follow and send notes. We'll need the support brutha's and sistah's.
Below is the bad news.
================================================== ==
Daily Schedule
Day 1 (June 10, Sunday) San Diego, CA to El Centro, CA 128 miles
Day 2 (June 11, Monday) El Centro to Gila Bend, AZ 178 miles
Day 3 (June 12, Tuesday) Gila Bend to Globe, AZ 147 miles
Day 4 (June 13, Wednesday) Globe to Springerville, AZ 148 miles
Day 5 (June 14, Thursday) Springerville to Socorro, NM 158 miles
Day 6 (June 15, Friday) Socorro to Roswell, NM 167 miles
Day 7 (June 16, Saturday) Roswell to Hereford, TX 165 miles
Day 8 (June 17, Sunday) Hereford to Elk City, OK 200 miles
Day 9 (June 18, Monday) Elk City to Ada, OK 216 miles
Day 10 (June 19, Tuesday) Ada to Mena, AR 178 miles
Day 11 (June 20, Wednesday) Mena to Pine Bluff, AR 180 miles
Day 12 (June 21, Thursday) Pine Bluff to Batesville, MS 183 miles
Day 13 (June 22, Friday) Batesville to Philadelphia, MS 166 miles
Day 14 (June 23, Saturday) Philadelphia to Camden, AL 155 miles
Day 15 (June 24, Sunday) Camden to Eufaula, AL 160 miles
Day 16 (June 25, Monday) Eufaula to Dublin, GA 159 miles
Day 17 (June 26, Tuesday) Dublin to Tybee, GA 145 miles

[ShockTreatment]

TT -- Not bad for a 50 year old! That's a great plan. Good luck to you.

ST

[bcm119]

Looks intense. Intense heat! Why so far south / so late in the spring?

[72gmc]

More power to you, big guy. Day 9 looks to be a pleasant little jaunt, filled with interesting sights...

[znfdl]

The day that I am most worried about is day 10, which is after the back to back doubles. There will be 8,000 feet of climbing in the last 50 miles of the 178 mile day. For me this will be the "make it" or "break it" day.

Too Tall has created a wonderful training plan for me, which I feel will get me in the right shape, hopefully a little more lean.

[TimD]

TT: That is nuts. I mean this in the best way: Good luck!!!

[dauwhe]

That looks great! Hope you have a blast.

Pretty good training for PBP, isn't it?

Dave

[Archibald]

Jezus H. Krist!

Has your height reduced the blood flow to your brain?!

June?

I predict you'll die between day 3 and 6 from the inescapable sun & heat.

I hope you'll make it, but damn, that's going to be hard like my lovin'!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Smiley]

Krazy , its all I can say ! Best to u-all Queen , Znfdl and TT . Hey Znf will u be drinking the red at night to replenish :)

[Len J]

Krazy , its all I can say ! Best to u-all Queen , Znfdl and TT . Hey Znf will u be drinking the red at night to replenish :)


You need any crew?

PM me.

Good luck.

Len

[Kevan]

there won't be much time for sightseeing and photo taking then.

Pulling this off means you three are serious cycling dudes...and dudette. You also happen to be nutz, but we already knew that about youses. My head is going to be shaking 'no' for the coming week. May there be no... (you know) and let any... (you know) kindly push you from behind.

[Ginger]

Yes, rolling across the great plains thinking:

"Yeah...this must be the view of an ant on a pancake."

Good luck to you all! Keep us posted on the site and training entertainment!

May you have a good tailwind for your journey.

Ginger

[Smiley]

You need any crew?

PM me.

Good luck.

Len
U can't crew for them and come to the Open House ! I think this is a supported ride, somebody has the wine cooler chilled for znfdl :)

[Climb01742]

have you got a will? is your estate in order? where would you like us to send flowers? :D

good luck, dude.

[72gmc]

One little request, TT, that I'm sure you already thought of: please post your training regimen here or on your site. So I can cramp vicariously.

[onekgguy]

wow...i'm tired just adding up the mileage...1091 miles the first week followed by 1278 the next week followed by three more long days. i'd be interested to see your workout schedule leading up to the trip. most impressive! i'm relatively new to this forum so i'll ask a stupid question which probably most here already know the answer to...what sort of experience do you guys have doing this sort of thing? you've very much piqued my interest...i only wish you were coming through my neck of the woods so i could possibly put you up for the night.

Kevin

[Ken Robb]

maybe I can help with some carbo/zinfandel loading the night before the kick-off?

[Tom]

That looks like a lot of fun.

[Louis]

Jure Robič watch out, TT coming through !!!

[rpm]

I see that Ed Pavelka and Fred Matheny from RoadBikeRider.com are going to be along for the trip, as well. They say that they are going to be taking quite different approaches to preparation and will be updating their training schedules and progress on their premium site. Ed will be piling up the miles and Fred will be doing short and fast training rides. It should be fun to see how it works out for everybody concerned.

http://www.roadbikerider.com

[mike p]

Too Tall I'd love to have the time off to do that. I would say weather will be a huge factor. Good luck and God speed.

Mike

[pale scotsman]

Yo T squared, this looks like the RAAM route from a few years ago. Day 14 will take you through my neck of the woods, and it's gonna be hot in late June. Not to mention afternoon monsoons. Please feel free to holler if you need anything.

The RAAM ride came through on Hwy 10 through Camden, AL. Used to spend a couple days a week at a Weyerhaeuser paper mill a few miles from there. One morning on the way there I saw this dude on his tri-bars looking like he was wasted... staring at the line on the road like he was hypnotized with support van in tow. That's gonna be you big guy!

Oh, and in Camden there's a hole in the wall called Dallas Soul Food. Dear supreme being of all religeons near and far, now that's good eats.

[Kevan]

maybe I can help with some carbo/zinfandel loading the night before the kick-off?

fish tacos! Ya gotta have them too!

[weisan]

You probably want to amend the Texas route slightly to coincide with an official rest day in Austin where we can feed you, re-stock some of your supplies, and possibly give you a complete rub-down. :p

Otherwise, the whole thing looks good...across USA - yes...a nice ride, maybe not.

[stevep]

positively an adventure.
hope the sun shines and the wind is behind.
best luck with it.

[soulspinner]

Dont forget the sunscreen and lots o batteries for the camera. You guys are animals. Keep the rubba down.

[manet]

is this the prep program for the deerfielddrr

[slowgoing]

That's a lot of calories - you're going to be eating all day long.

Good luck.

[Too Tall]

Thanks. I depend on you all for smiles and support to get us to the starting line...it won't be easy. I'll post training as it gets done and a general outline. We are old hands at the distance game so much revolves around revisiting and making nice with our "game" seeing if it still works and finding new tricks.

We won't be training as much in the mtns. prior to PBPs instead focus , for right now, is on covering 100 miles really really fast. As training progresses we'll start to knock out doubles...fast.

Everyone has their own perspective about how to get 'r done...for us it has always been about checking out the great scenery, suffering and having pride and just a speck of dignity at days end....wimper.

Keep this link handy. Never was much of a web developer apologies in advance. This is rough. Bits and piece will come as I have time.
http://www.ahealinghand.com/2007%20Elite%20PAC%20tour/
Anybody that's good at web design, I barter ;)

[Too Tall]

is this the prep program for the deerfielddrr


Ayup :)

[A.L.Breguet]

Good luck, coach!

[rwsaunders]

Too Tall:

I've heard of entire families and their bikes disappearing in Roswell, so please be careful. If it were Philadelphia, PA, I'd crew too. How about publishing a training log?

[shoe]

dude if you go through jersey you should totally stop by ... i mean come on we are right near the garden state parkway...dave

[Too Tall]

Y'all are the best ever :) Thanks for offers to feed us and visit....just to paint a picture. Our days will be 10-16 hrs. on bike. Leave at dawn's first light and finish before dark. Than it's bike maintenence, wash cloths, make bottles for next day and shag double dinners and massage. He!! we'll be lucky to do that! Here is a link for PAC Tour www.pactour.com

Yep, Ed and Fred are riding. That will be a hoot. I've spent many miles riding with the ED ;) He is a good man and super steady long rider. Our main man will be ZNFNDL and a guy from Iowa who nobody has ever heard of!!! He is a very good crit. rider who somehow ended up on our Southern tour and rode every day with...he is the ultimate tailgunner and fends off rabid hedgehogs and weaving drivers :)

Training log I'll post bit and pieces. I'm superstitious so would be more inclined to give general guidelines rather than details ok? Don't want to jinx the effort ;)

The first hurdle for most RAAM riders is not the distance, it is nutrition on the bike.

[chrisroph]

Josh:

That is a real serious adventure. Are you riding the tandem? Best of luck with the prep.

[saab2000]

The first hurdle for most RAAM riders is not the distance, it is nutrition on the bike.

That surprises me. I would have thought it would be the lack of sleep after 2 or 3 days.

[Too Tall]

Yep, tandem. haha, if g-d willing and the seas don't rise we'll be RAAM qualified after it is over...not that I'd ever race a tandem at RAAM no no no. I am real interested in a two man, however. REALLY.

Sleep or lack of it is something you plan for SuperSaab. Do what you can and train yourself to ride on no sleep...fight the hallucinations etc.

Nutrition is a science and art you need alot of real time to explore and find what works. If you do not stay ontop of nutrition hr. by hr. the consequences of a bonk, dehydration, lack of protein or low electrolyte etc. during a 200 miles ride are that you will not finish before dark and bye bye RAAM qualification. It generally takes a few hrs. to come back from a bad episode and still keep riding...that's my experience anyway.

I've done tons of research into sleep science and it is just a super fascinating topic. Pete Pennsyres raised the bar to new levels when he applied results of military lab work to his winning RAAM rides. His wife was a nurse and he a scientist which made for excellent fodder. Haha, I'm a bit gun shy to post details of anything here...too controversial!!!! The meat of how to limit sleep and maintain a healty central nervous system while racing essentially involves monitoring of sleep cycles thru direct observation (Pete's wife) and waking the rider after a proscribed amt. of quality REM sleep.

During Elite tour you'll find more than a few riders who pop an ambien to assure they get sleep.

[saab2000]

Yeah, we talked about this during our ride a couple months ago, huh? ;)

More to follow. Moving on the 31st.

[djg]

I'll be with you guys ... you know, in spirit. Like, during the hours when I'm awake.

Best of luck with the ride and watch the winds on the high plains (if I had to work to keep a KZ1000 on track, a little old spectrum might be another challenge altogether).

[Birddog]

The day that I am most worried about is day 10, which is after the back to back doubles. There will be 8,000 feet of climbing in the last 50 miles of the 178 mile day. For me this will be the "make it" or "break it" day.
The Elk City to Ada leg will no doubt be a bugger because of buffetting winds out of the S. Wind usually blows at 15 to 25 mph here in OK about that time of year, hell it blows at an avg of 12 mph year round!. It's also the tail end of Tornado season, what fun. I've ridden some of the last section of day 10 and I think 8,000' is overstating it a bit, but still that 50 miles is full of hellatious walls of 8% to 13% or more. The climbs are short for the most part but one is about 5 miles long. It's a roller coaster and the descents are fun. The humidity is high at that time of year too.

Birddog

[dreadpiratetim]

Good luck, coach!

+1

[Jack Brunk]

TT,

Can some of us tag along for a few stages?


Jack

[gasman]

What a trip you have planned !!

Best of luck to all of you.

[Too Tall]

! Talimena Parkway is a bee atch. We rode that before and was a serious hurt esp. with dead legs. It is a real life roller coaster. That is the ONLY section of the entire ride I'll fit a low low gear for...tandems :rolleyes: The rest of the region is nearly flat, where did THAT come from???

Jack, yes :) That would be a blast. You'll have to coordinate with Sue H. for a group rate room at both ends? If you are OK with it, let one of the crew drive your car to the hotel (sustained energy washes out of leather ;) )

The riders will be haulin' butt it will be a gas for someone with fresh legs. I've done the same on eastern tour...dropped in on the group mid-way on the Blue Ridge Pkwy. Tell Sue you are a pal.

[Climb01742]

josh, is there anything we can do to help? need anything? i'd be happy to contribute stuff, like spare tires, saddles, water bottles, whatever i have is yours if you want/need anything. i bet others here would too. just ask, bro.

[Too Tall]

You are the bestest ever :) Thanks, things I need mostly revlove around rebuilding the CK hubset and freshening up the drivetrain...rebuilding a trashed spare front wheel etc. mostly things I can do on my own. Can you train for me? :)

We knocked out an 18.8 century today in headwinds and hills + twice thru urban areas and only one quick stop for water. SWEETEST part of the ride was catching a tailwind on a 5 miles stretch of wide open road and winding up to mid thirties and holding it. Dang that's a powerful feeling on tandem. Baaawooooooo.

Nutrition was the first thing to fall apart today. Queen miscalculated her bottle of Perpetum and ran on (errk) 130 cals/hr.! At about the 85 mile mark she said "I hope we are headed for home now" ;) QUICK stop the bike and feed the poor thing. I ran on just under 300cals / hr. which is a pretty thin for me on purpose to test the waters. I was fine for 4 1/2 hrs. than felt a low, ate a bar and back on top real fast. So now I know that <300 cal bottles + hammer gel is still a good choice for me. Endurolytes were going down well at 2 /hr. + 1 race cap. Yep, we are getting the old long distance mojo back in order. Next month we'll do some 300-400ks and VOfest mid week.

I'll tell you what I need. The Old Syntace C2 bars are too forward. My position has changed quite a bit in the last 4 yrs. Looking for a better setup that puts me more into a classic EuroSlam position eg. keep the same saddle setback...drop down until your elbows are just under saddle height and forearms are not much more open than 90something. The C2 bar elbow pads are too far forward and too long extensions. What will give me ability to move the pads back 2 cm and adjustable reach?

Sorry I ramble today...post endorphin rush ;) The bike is just too dang light! For this trip we can suffer no mechanicals so will eliminate the carbon seatposts, salsa flip offs and carry shims to fit 27.2 (loaner) seatposts into the comotion (29.8??)...just in case. Also, time to buy one of those gadgets that will let me use a loaner shimano rear mech. with the campag 9 brifters...just in case. OMG it has been 4 yrs. since I've had to think like this :rolleyes:

Appreciate all the support. Jack, hope you can plan this. Would love to ride a day with you pal. Dinner is my treat I INSIST! Hope you like Country Buffet ewww if we are lucky it's waffle house OH HE!! yes.

[RABikes2]

TT,
Wishing you and the Queen the best on your adventure! What a time you're going to have out there...wow! I'd love to be crewing for you...maybe on RAAM? ;)

Can we be expecting the two of you at Sebring in February?
RA

[Tom]

Oh, no. I didn't think of it in those terms. Oh, no. The only idea I have is that maybe you could scoop up a handful of dirt from the roadside to get that taste out of your mouth. Oh, no.

[Too Tall]

Bawaaaahahaha, We've been making Perpetum paste ;) How's that for fun Tom? I'd love to come to Sebring :) Time is a huge factor however. PM me and I'll give you the name of a guy I coach who is going.

Gulp. I fight being an elitist, no I don't ;) Yes, I do! I got a set of LANCE F'in Armstrong 10/2 bibs on sale because the pad looked great. Spent 3 hr.s removing all the yellow and these bibs are the best I've ever EVER worn :) The lycra is not up to par with most of my quality stuff however the design and the PAD is killer. Does anyone know who makes these for Trek and if this exact same short is avail. with that pad in another brand...maybe better lycra????

I've started weekend long rides with one of my "students" and a guy on the usa worlds tri team. Painful and fun. Nice to ride with guys who can go long.

[scrooge]

Gulp. I fight being an elitist, no I don't ;) Yes, I do! I got a set of LANCE F'in Armstrong 10/2 bibs on sale because the pad looked great. Spent 3 hr.s removing all the yellow and these bibs are the best I've ever EVER worn :) The lycra is not up to par with most of my quality stuff however the design and the PAD is killer. Does anyone know who makes these for Trek and if this exact same short is avail. with that pad in another brand...maybe better lycra????

.

Did you have to alter these to make them fit your tall self, or do they work as is...I've been wanting to try some bibs, but don't want to hassle with adapting them.

[Too Tall]

No prob. Just run the shoulder straps thru your hands a few times...kind of like you'd stretch a new tubular ;) Serious. Just fine.

[BoulderGeek]

I got saddle sores just reading this thread. :rolleyes:

[Too Tall]

Tandem is losing propetary bits.....
Time to swap out the sweet FSA carbon cranks for something new :) "Squares" apply at the front office ;)

[Keith A]

TT -- Just saw this thread and I'm impressed! I didn't read through the messages, so I don't know if you are doing this as a solo (tandem) effort or not. And I don't know if I can pull this off or not, but I'd love to be able to meet you in Dublin, GA and do your last leg with you. So let me know if you want any company (as a fellow rider, crew, support or whatever) and I'll look at my schedule.

[AgilisMerlin]

When i lived down in the area, i had travelled through the Roswell area, many times...........


bring a GUN




aMERLIn


Throwing Beer Bottles is a Sport in the Land of (Entrapment)Enchantment'

[obtuse]

Bawaaaahahaha, We've been making Perpetum paste ;) How's that for fun Tom? I'd love to come to Sebring :) Time is a huge factor however. PM me and I'll give you the name of a guy I coach who is going.

Gulp. I fight being an elitist, no I don't ;) Yes, I do! I got a set of LANCE F'in Armstrong 10/2 bibs on sale because the pad looked great. Spent 3 hr.s removing all the yellow and these bibs are the best I've ever EVER worn :) The lycra is not up to par with most of my quality stuff however the design and the PAD is killer. Does anyone know who makes these for Trek and if this exact same short is avail. with that pad in another brand...maybe better lycra????

I've started weekend long rides with one of my "students" and a guy on the usa worlds tri team. Painful and fun. Nice to ride with guys who can go long.

if there the good ones from '05 they're made by giordana and you can get the same chamois, same bib straps and better lycra with the giordana body clone stuff....if you want the same chamois and the world's best super tough guy muscle compression 'ish; get the giordana tenax. by far the best short in the entire world.

obtuse

[stevep]

tt,
if you want top go to california...why dont you fly?
can get there in 6 hours.
trying to help.
s
cheaper too.

[Too Tall]

Thanks Keith, this is a supported ride and you are more than welcome to join for the last leg. We will be in full on "REACH THE FREAKIN BEACH" mode at that point and he!!bent to dip our front wheel in the ocean.

Steve, what are you smoking and why aren't you passing it around?????

Senor' - man why didn't I ask you before? It truly pains me to pay for anything TREK however the shorts rock. Just scored their overpriced Pro version...the lycra is not as substantial as the Lance version however still the same wonderful chamois. It's just the 05' version that I should look at? New G. is not the same? Muchos Gracias.

YO! Howabout those DBRKworthy TA cranks I found in Manet's woods...cleaned up nice ;)

[dauwhe]

The cranks are gorgeous! I have the half-bike version in the basement, but my right foot points out so far that my heel hits the crank. I might try to get a pedal extender, or see if some shims or orthotics might help my foot point in the right direction. It would all be worth it just to use the cranks!

Dave

[kbone]

TT et al, good luck with the ride. It's going to be amazing I am sure.

Two things...

First, if you need help with web dev I have some skills. It's been a while since I have been hands on but I would be happy to knock the rust off and help out with your web site.

Second, if you need anything while in GA I would be happy to help out in any way - food, parts or even just a ringing bell and an "allez, allez" as you go by!

[Too Tall]

Yesterday was vindication. After a few weeks of really cr@p training and some AMAZING wonderful GREAT visits to forum friends we nailed a stellar 90+ miles tandem ride yesterday. The words "chainless" come to mind. I finally got the aerobars "just right" and tire pressures are dialed and and and we were really on. Feels good. We were asked to lead the local shop ride regulars on this romp that includes close to 7,000 of climbing and all of it is on hills of less than 500 feet! A very choppy difficult course fer sher. The guys loved it but few are really in this kind of shape in March so they dug the tandem draft ;)

Yesterday both of us used the same nutrition scheme that has proved over and over a winner for staying on the bike. We both mixed 2 3 hr. bottles of perpetum and sustained energy and carried hydration packs with approx. 60 oz of water. Works like a charm. In the past we found that this let's us ride 4 hrs. easy no stops than a quick water grab and off we go. Sounds nuts but that's why I'm putting this in print so others will have something as reference.

Planning our training so that we have the speed and strength to knock out a fast double is the goal. We feel like everything is on track now.

VERY soon we'll start riding longer and looooonger at the same speeds.

Hey! Thanks for listening.

[USNA92]

Be carefull ! An old racer friend of mine tried a ride across the US. This guy was a great sprinter but lacked time trial ability. He thought all the long miles, 200 a day, would help him with his TT's. It turns out that he didn't even make it across Arizona. He wasn't paying attention to hydration and almost died in the emergency room.

[glc]

i am proud of you so and cant wait to bask in your knowledge of suffering in few weeks.

xog

[Too Tall]

Update! Today we tested the waters further. Timing is right for us to start riding fast doubles or close to the mileage and FAST!!! We knocked out a rolling 176 miler with a 19 avg. first 100 and dwindled to 18.5 in the finishing hills. We had one "official" sit down stop for 20 mins. and one stop at a farmers house to use their hose and make nice to a horse AND maybe two "whatever" smell the hay quick stops just to get off the bike for a few. Ride time was about 10 hrs. which is not as fast as I wanted but certainly not lame and nobody lost an eye.

We started the ride with a local Rando group. Man...when did American rando riders start to ride so well??? They were in a two up formation...mostly bar to bar and handling their bikes very clean in the dark. Steady pace up and downhil...it was pretty sweet for about 30 miles. We were on a mission to ride solo so we took off on a pitch dark descent and never saw anyone again...prolly best that way as it best approximates what we expect for Elite tour. In theory , I know this will not always work, we should not draft to earn RAAM qualification. There will be days when this is not possible and have prev. seen Lon and Sue waive the rule...just as he says "don't be flagrant" :)

Anywho, we are pretty tired and the training is going well. For now we are riding fast doubles with power work and recovery weekdays. Next up...back to back 10+ hr. rides. ewwwwww.

[Len J]

Update! Today we tested the waters further. Timing is right for us to start riding fast doubles or close to the mileage and FAST!!! We knocked out a rolling 176 miler with a 19 avg. first 100 and dwindled to 18.5 in the finishing hills. We had one "official" sit down stop for 20 mins. and one stop at a farmers house to use their hose and make nice to a horse AND maybe two "whatever" smell the hay quick stops just to get off the bike for a few. Ride time was about 10 hrs. which is not as fast as I wanted but certainly not lame and nobody lost an eye.

We started the ride with a local Rando group. Man...when did American rando riders start to ride so well??? They were in a two up formation...mostly bar to bar and handling their bikes very clean in the dark. Steady pace up and downhil...it was pretty sweet for about 30 miles. We were on a mission to ride solo so we took off on a pitch dark descent and never saw anyone again...prolly best that way as it best approximates what we expect for Elite tour. In theory , I know this will not always work, we should not draft to earn RAAM qualification. There will be days when this is not possible and have prev. seen Lon and Sue waive the rule...just as he says "don't be flagrant" :)

Anywho, we are pretty tired and the training is going well. For now we are riding fast doubles with power work and recovery weekdays. Next up...back to back 10+ hr. rides. ewwwwww.

are my new heros!

Way to go.

Len

[catulle]

You're my hero, TT. Fair winds and following seas. Please keep us posted.

:banana:

[rwsaunders]

Too Tall et al: How about a helmet cam? Here's a motivational video for you guys. Hope to see you on the IMax.

http://www.wiredtowinthemovie.com/trailer_hi.html

[A.L.Breguet]

Too Tall et al: How about a helmet cam? Here's a motivational video for you guys. Hope to see you on the IMax.

http://www.wiredtowinthemovie.com/trailer_hi.html
+1
How 'bout some pics, atleast.
I'm not a Royalist, but you and the queen are an inspiration!

[ada@prorider.or]

Below is the bad news.
================================================== ==
Daily Schedule
Day 1 (June 10, Sunday) San Diego, CA to El Centro, CA 128 miles
Day 2 (June 11, Monday) El Centro to Gila Bend, AZ 178 miles
Day 3 (June 12, Tuesday) Gila Bend to Globe, AZ 147 miles
Day 4 (June 13, Wednesday) Globe to Springerville, AZ 148 miles
Day 5 (June 14, Thursday) Springerville to Socorro, NM 158 miles
Day 6 (June 15, Friday) Socorro to Roswell, NM 167 miles
Day 7 (June 16, Saturday) Roswell to Hereford, TX 165 miles
Day 8 (June 17, Sunday) Hereford to Elk City, OK 200 miles
Day 9 (June 18, Monday) Elk City to Ada, OK 216 miles
Day 10 (June 19, Tuesday) Ada to Mena, AR 178 miles
Day 11 (June 20, Wednesday) Mena to Pine Bluff, AR 180 miles
Day 12 (June 21, Thursday) Pine Bluff to Batesville, MS 183 miles
Day 13 (June 22, Friday) Batesville to Philadelphia, MS 166 miles
Day 14 (June 23, Saturday) Philadelphia to Camden, AL 155 miles
Day 15 (June 24, Sunday) Camden to Eufaula, AL 160 miles
Day 16 (June 25, Monday) Eufaula to Dublin, GA 159 miles
Day 17 (June 26, Tuesday) Dublin to Tybee, GA 145 miles

hey you going to ADA
can i join?

[vaxn8r]

Update! Today we tested the waters further. Timing is right for us to start riding fast doubles or close to the mileage and FAST!!! We knocked out a rolling 176 miler with a 19 avg. first 100 and dwindled to 18.5 in the finishing hills....
Very nice! That's about how we do on our 60 mile rides (always with hills) and then we're.....tired. I'm very impressed. My wife just won't go past about 70 miles/4hours. I know she could do it but unlike me, she has nothing to prove on the bike.

Keep it up.

[Too Tall]

Tanks...the support is more and more appreciated as we get further into this.
Yep, I've got the basic outline of a new website done and am working on all the zillions of links necessary to make it an easy daily update. Pics. and some short videos are going to happen. dunno about a helmet cam...yikes would that be boring or what? Just pulled the trigger on a very nifty new Dell laptop that I'll tether to my crackberry...fingers crossed there is ok broadband coverage in most places. I've got an huge amt. of storage space on my new webserver so some decent videos are assured and dense pics. yah yah :)

HA! I gotta learn to hold my peace. Today was out for a real birdy ride (that's what I call a recovery ride) and holding a steady 18 which felt perfect....some local masters rider is huffin' and puffin' his way past me. Apparenty he wanted me to take his wheel, I didn't so he waited and struck up a conversation and said he had a hard ride yesterday and what was I up to? I told him today was just an easy peezey day nothing hard no work day and he asked why and I told him about yesterdays 178 mile ride. Ouch. I just let it slip I should have just said I went "hard". Stupid me. Sounded kinda like boasting. The honorable cycling longbeards would not be happy. Next time I'll know...shadddap. New interal rule...when you are doing a recovery ride don't talk to anyone unless it leads to coffee.

[Ginger]

and I told him about yesterdays 178 mile ride.
It's ok...you've been out of the loop for a year, right?

ya gotta relearn *everything*

:)

[Tom]

Last year or the year before in April one Sunday I was wandering home all proud of myself after riding up to Desolation and back when this guy just appears on my left shoulder. I was feeling pretty good about going 25 or so and he apparently effortlessly caught up to me. It turns out he's a local triathlete who, I gather from friends who know him, is pretty much a pro at it.

We conversed a bit, he asked how far I was going, then he said this was a 400 mile weekend for him.

Yikes, I said.

Well, he said quickly, over three days. Rode up to Lake Placid Friday, the Ironman course Saturday and then back home Sunday.

Well, ****, I said. Three days? Why didn't you say that, hell anybody can do that in three days! Heh heh.

Yeah, he said, it's nice to get in some early season endurance. Now I gotta get home, I owe my wife big time.

And he scampered up the Aqueduct hill at about 25 miles an hour.


I laughed at that, but it did plant a seed... which after reading what you're up to is getting a little more thought. I start thinking maybe the barriers are a little further out there then I may have first considered them and what the hell, maybe I give some things a rip and see what happens.

[William]

I'm rooting for you Titan Brother!!! :banana:



William :)

[dauwhe]

Yesterday both of us used the same nutrition scheme that has proved over and over a winner for staying on the bike. We both mixed 2 3 hr. bottles of perpetum and sustained energy and carried hydration packs with approx. 60 oz of water. Works like a charm. In the past we found that this let's us ride 4 hrs. easy no stops than a quick water grab and off we go. Sounds nuts but that's why I'm putting this in print so others will have something as reference.

Do you mix the Perpetuem and Sustained Energy, or alternate, or just choose randomly?

First 200k was yesterday, and although I've done well for a few years with convenience store grazing, I don't think that will work for PBP...

Dave

[znfdl]

Do you mix the Perpetuem and Sustained Energy, or alternate, or just choose randomly?


Dave: I mix equal parts sustained energy and perpetuem. Then in a bento box I keep my days supply of race caps, endurolytes and anti-fatigue caps.

Good luck in your brevets.

I will be off to Pac Tour Mountain week in which I will do 8 100+ miles rides and then joing Too Tall and Queen on their weekend rides. The final push is on.

[RABikes2]

First 200k was yesterday, and although I've done well for a few years with convenience store grazing, I don't think that will work for PBP...Dave
Same here...any more my nutrition sucks on brevets. Accelerade (I like the protein), Emergen'C products, GU, granola bars, ClifShots, and the occasional 6" sub from Subway just aren't doing it. I start to feel like crud (depleted/fatigue) after a few hours riding. Please tell more about race caps, endurolytes and anti-fatigue caps. Appreciate it!
RA

[Tom]

Dave: I mix equal parts sustained energy and perpetuem. ...

I use equal parts kerosene and Perpetuem. The kerosene doesn't add any nutritional value but it does kill the taste of the Perpetuem.

[Too Tall]

We use sep. bottles of Perpetum and Sustained Energy mixed triple strength + hydration packs for water with hrly supplements of endurolytes (electrolytes) and 1 antifatigue per hr. on the longer rides. (in a nutshell).

RA - look at the www.hammernutrition.com website. Send me regular e-mail and I'll help you with an order. Your prob. could be too much simple sugar and no consistent fueling strategy..hit and miss. If you have Trader Joe's in the area buy their organic food bar and use that as your main fuel until you've sorted out the hammer products. That bar is super high quality and is infact the same as what Hammer sells under their name...just a larger version.

[davids]

Below is the bad news.
================================================== ==
Daily Schedule
Day 1 (June 10, Sunday) San Diego, CA to El Centro, CA 128 miles
Day 2 (June 11, Monday) El Centro to Gila Bend, AZ 178 miles
Day 3 (June 12, Tuesday) Gila Bend to Globe, AZ 147 miles
Day 4 (June 13, Wednesday) Globe to Springerville, AZ 148 miles
Day 5 (June 14, Thursday) Springerville to Socorro, NM 158 miles
Day 6 (June 15, Friday) Socorro to Roswell, NM 167 miles
Day 7 (June 16, Saturday) Roswell to Hereford, TX 165 miles
Day 8 (June 17, Sunday) Hereford to Elk City, OK 200 miles
Day 9 (June 18, Monday) Elk City to Ada, OK 216 miles
Day 10 (June 19, Tuesday) Ada to Mena, AR 178 miles
Day 11 (June 20, Wednesday) Mena to Pine Bluff, AR 180 miles
Day 12 (June 21, Thursday) Pine Bluff to Batesville, MS 183 miles
Day 13 (June 22, Friday) Batesville to Philadelphia, MS 166 miles
Day 14 (June 23, Saturday) Philadelphia to Camden, AL 155 miles
Day 15 (June 24, Sunday) Camden to Eufaula, AL 160 miles
Day 16 (June 25, Monday) Eufaula to Dublin, GA 159 miles
Day 17 (June 26, Tuesday) Dublin to Tybee, GA 145 miles
I've been curious to map this for a while. All I can say is "Yow!"

[Too Tall]

Davids - Sacrey stuff bro ;) Only a nut job would...oh never mind.

Weekend update with your anchors Too Tall and Queen

Signed up to ride a 200k Brevet. I really hate looking toooo closely at the routes ahead of time in this case very glad I did NOT!!! The course was 128 miles with 11,100 ft. climbing. We were not "racing" anyone however American style is to rush rush rush...boring. Anywho, whine over. We stayed on the bike except to get our cards stamped and fetch water / make bottles finishing in 7:59 finished ahead of about 60 who started. OK ok, we don't suk. Yes, I have demons in my head just like you.

Felt pretty decent despite the horrific amt. of climbing. What do these people smoke when creating these routes???? Crack??? What??? The point is to challenge Brevet riders and prepare them for PBP not to ride up Everest fer criz sake. Sorry, ranting again.

Peace, this has been and update with your weekend anchors TT and Queen. Until next time. xxoo

[Serotta PETE]

Was the guy on the bike FRIDAY - SANDY?????


Please keep those hills out of the ride schedule when I am up that way. That is some serious elevation.


PETE

[Birddog]

Day 10 will be a real SOB. Too bad, if you had a little extra time you could venture about 50 miles S for an appropriate photo op.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/visitors/signs/M404620-s.gif&imgrefurl=http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/visitors/projects.cfm%3FId%3DM404620&h=80&w=340&sz=5&hl=en&start=68&tbnid=WurwntdP1RarLM:&tbnh=28&tbnw=119&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddequeen%2Barkansas%26start%3D60%26gbv %3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

Birddog

[Jack Brunk]

TT,

These kinds of days will be the reason why you and the queen will kick as$ on the ride across America

[dreadpiratetim]

It's Indian Medicine; if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger ;-)

Seriously, by day 10 (or 12, or 14) many will be thinking "if only I hadn't slacked off in training..." You and the Queen will be secure knowing that no such softness was tolerated or contemplated. Ride on!

[Too Tall]

Thanks dewds and dewdettes.
Here are some pics. I just got of saturday's 300k climb-fest.
We started and (eventually) finished with the fellow white rain cape "Coppi's" race team kit and the pup in blue. The kid was so new to riding it was kind of amazing to see. He might be 21 yrs....maybe. The Coppi's rider is a tough old guy, local racer, huge legs.

[zap]

Christa and Chuck on the other tandem?

[Too Tall]

Zap - Yep, the mean C n C machine. They are still riding the lights out :)

Thanks Frank nice rear mech. :) SORTED!!! I got a new fr. der. and did a little tweaking. The old one was pretty shot and had quite a bit of rocker along the long axis which made for cr@p little ring shifting and pasty big ring transitions. Anywho, life is good. The triple has never shifted this well :)

Oooo, the Cycle Dynamics 12 X 30 is super sweet. Dang they do nice work.

Peace, now if you can believe this it is supposed to snow some tonight. ***?

[dreadpiratetim]

Peace, now if you can believe this it is supposed to snow some tonight. ***?

Yep... Global Warming, AND it's Bush's fault ;-)

[onekgguy]

tt...just curious...i'm guessing that you keep detailed records of your fitness and what it takes to keep you fit. what have you noticed in regard to your fitness and the aging process? i think we're about the same age. i can tell that my average heart rate isn't what it used to be during a ride. it's also apparent that i don't recover as quickly as i used to. i'm a bit stupid when it comes to recovery but i'm beginning to realize that i need to allow myself more down time for this to occur. how have you changed (if you have) your approach to training over the last 5-7 years? thanks.

Kevin g

[Too Tall]

Indiv. and together we have been across the USA three times and I clearly remember training pattern / results. Ultra dist. preparation is a funny thing. Remember the words of the wise ones right? SPECIFICITY!!!!! Seems like a no brainer yah? Go long alot and everything will be fine...not so. To "get there" requires excellent basis....to "get there" without burn out, sickness, injury etc. is a alot to encompass given the huge amt. of time required to train for ultras. Recovery each day is key.

Of course there are various ways to ride an ultra but we are talking about doing this with high performance in mind agreed? I wasted all this space to set you up for the answer regards age / training and results over the yrs. and what I've observed. Just observing myself and Queen it does not take alot of numbers crunching to show that we are considerably better and faster than 15 yrs. ago. If you took the "us" today and plopped us into PBP tommorrow we'd beat the pants off our ride in 03' ...with some luck ;) If you took "us" from 10 yrs. ago and sent us on our way across the USA in 17 days today we'd suffer like dogs and maybe pull up lame.

Reason is simple. Combination of experiance and training smarts. That's the short story. I could not write a book how to train an ultra enduance rider because it entails so much and pushes bodies to the limit over yrs. of training to find all the things that work and overcome issues that hold you back. Every rider I've coached is completely different...no 'chit.

Heck, lifestyle is at the top of my list when I interview a new client. I want to know if they will have time and support to accomplish this.

Last, human performance as we age. Fugget about HR already will yah???? After 12 hrs. in the saddle it don't matter bruddah ;) Kidding kind of. I coach and train using watts however if I was able to test blood and access to lab / erg I'd have no prob. doing a better job coaching with HR only. It is a long story but that's my belief....ultimately you can do a fantastic job with HR if you test like crazy...it's a PITA and watts is not exactly second best.

Yes I've got the data and performance is better for both of us. For instance, queen was a strong local rec. rider in the past 15 yrs. when we were not doing ultras. We quit ultra for 4 yrs. after 03 PBP and trained for Masters Nats on tandem (never got there) however kept training and racing...she eventually was ranked 2nd 40+ in the tri state region. Not bad ;) Her training improved and we got smatah.

You nailed it pal. Recovery is a HUGE change. No freakin' way I can train the say way I did 15 or 10 yrs. ago. No Way. I'd die. Everyone is very different and at diff. times. Now I ride and train by measuring the amt. of work done vs recovery. There is alot less fluff training and alot more quality and I really pay attention to vol. of types of training....I'd don't just "go out and hammer" on wednesdays and "do a long ride" sunday and call it good ;) Rather I'll see how total vol. of training and recovery is stacking up and decide where to go from there.

Age is a big deal my friend and I'm playing that "50" card to the max. I only get to throw it from the deck once so we are making a mark...settting the bar high...whatever you want to call it because at some point age will stop us from performing at better / faster than the past. Maybe this 17 day crossing is the most we'll ever do...I don't know that answer.

[onekgguy]

tt...thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts into words for me. i don't race but i do enjoy allowing my 27 year old mind to push my nearly 50 year old body as i attempt to keep father time at bay.

i think my main concern at this point in my life is an overuse injury which may put a damper on the amount of riding i'm able to do. i don't know what to expect from my body in the years to come but i do know that i need to listen to it more and adjust my training as necessary. a knee injury from my late teens has always kept me from training as hard as i'd like but nsaid (advil) helps a bunch.

i'll keep going on this end and look to folks like you for my inspiration. a hat tip to you sir.

Kevin g

[Too Tall]

Weekends are our salvation. Aside from family obligations we've got weather to contend with. Saturday was a bear! Indoors training (bleh). Sunday we got our long miles in by riding to and from a fast hilly group ride. Since the total miles were less than we hoped all hills were done at race pace ;)

We feel strong and from here forward each week includes back to back long rides.

Thanks for listening

[sspielman]

Long miles this spring are tough. For about two months now, the weekends have featured the worst weather of the week on this side of the country. At some point, you have to wonder if being out in the harsh weather is a benefit or a detriment...and just get your training done and get back. I believe that sort of stress can add up over a season...tough year...

[Too Tall]

Coach Sspielman I am in complete agreement. Get in get out has been our approach when weather is bad and train when we can. Quality always baby.

[rwsaunders]

Too Tall: How about a tootube documentary of the training, preparation and the ride? Any aspiring cinematographers in TT's neighborhood?

[Too Tall]

YouTube??? My moms would beat me mannnnnnn. :rolleyes:
I'll do some sort of write up apre's vous.
Training plans for RAAM prep. and the ilk are
very individual so least I lead someone astray it might
be a better deal to just talk generally k?
Besides I don't photograh well....old football injury ;)

[znfdl]

I just got back from the Pac Tour Desert Camp - Mounatin Tour week (A little over 700 miles for 8 days).

Mountain Tour was quite good training and it was in the low 90s every day. I did a 92 mile warm up ride on the Saturday before the tour, but had a mishap. I was on a long downnhill when I needed to make a left hand turn off of route 83 which was gravel laden. When I was making the turn, an impatient car took my line which would have allowed me to avoid the gravel. The car forced me to change my line and I had to ride through 1 inch deep gravel and down I went. So Mountain Tour was a little harder than I expected, as I rode with a bruised elbow, hip and knee. I also wrenched my lower back. I did complete the entire Mountain Tour but was not able to do any bonus miles, as Charles did. It was nice to meet Charles and reacquaint myself with Franz. Both are really nice people and strong riders.

I was lucky that I met some wonderful people to ride with. I spent most of my riding with a person named Jennie Phillips from Northern California who is an accomplished racer and long distance cyclist. Jennie is training for PBP. Our riding styles were very similar and we felt very comfortable working together.

Jennie and I decided to try to minimize our times off of the bike. We would usually be the last to leave in the morning, then skip the first rest stop and then stop for 5 minutes or less at the second rest stop, 15 minutes at lunch and then skip the last rest stop. By doing this our time averaged between 16 mph and about 20.5 mph depending upon the days ride (including stops). The hardest day for me was the century to Tombstone as we had the infamous headwinds. Most of the day Jennie and I traded half mile pulls and just kept the pace constant.

The climb up Mount Graham was quite fun and not as hard as I expected. The climb is mostly 6% grades with a couple of steeper pitches. By east coast standards this is a tame climb, but long. The climb is reminiscent of the Blue Ridge Parkway and Skyline Drive.

I talked to Emmy Klassen (Elite rider in 99) and she passed on a tip that every night she would ice her knees down. Even though I do not have knee problems, I decided to try this on Mountain Tour and it did help. I will be doing this for the Elite Tour as well. My wife believes that there is a product on the market that has an ice pouch and then you can tie the pouch to an appendage. If I find this I will let you know. As this will allow me to bring ice to dinner and ice my knees down.

I also tried different clothing on this trip. I brought 4 makes of jerseys. The most comfortable jersey that I brought was a De Marchi Contour Lite Jersey, I will be bringing 4 of these along in June. The sad part is that the most comfortable shorts I had on the tour was my old Assos shorts before Assos switched to the elastic chamois. My Voler shorts were good on the first day and did not feel as good closer to the end of the tour. My search for shorts continues.

I also fine tuned my chamois creme on this trip. The best for me was Smooth Ride and Bag Balm in certain key places.

I also have nailed my nutrition down for the Elite Tour. My magic mix in the bottles will be 2 scoops of Perpetuem and 2 scoops of Sustained Energy. Also every hour I will take the following Hammer products: 1 race cap, 3 endurolytes and 1 anti-fatigue cap. I tried to fool around with the dosages and always came back to this recipe. On a few days I tried no solid food and found that I do need to eat a sandwich at lunch.

As you can see the 8 days of riding were very educational.

[Too Tall]

New plan for me and Queen....attach strong bungee cord to znfndl ;)

[znfdl]

Sure, no problem.....

[RABikes2]

I am so impressed (and in awe) by the three of you (TT, Queen, and znfdl). :banana:

I've got my 600k this weekend and I'm "sort of" (hahaha-what an understatement) concerned regarding nutrition, staying warm during the night riding, and staying awake. All situations have not been the best of times for me this year... I've been getting some sleep, but I still don't feel trained nor comfortable enough on the new saddle; not enough big miles. Then again, I've overtrained in the past and paid for it. Guess "overtraining" won't be an issue at this pace.

Way to go znfdl; very, very impressive. ;)

RA

[Too Tall]

Uh, znfndl....just to be crystal clear...bungee goes from my handlebar to your seatpost ;) SUPER STRONG ZIN TO THE FRONT :)

[djg]

Uh, znfndl....just to be crystal clear...bungee goes from my handlebar to your seatpost ;) SUPER STRONG ZIN TO THE FRONT :)

There's a first time for everything, right TT?

[znfdl]

Uh, znfndl....just to be crystal clear...bungee goes from my handlebar to your seatpost ;) SUPER STRONG ZIN TO THE FRONT :)

DJG, the first time is the best...

Too Tall: How about we do a rigid bar, therefore if I slow you down you can push me, but it will give the appearance of me pulling you ;)

RA: Thanks. I am sure that you will do fine, please give a ride report.

[RABikes2]

Question (especially since I'm questioning my techniques): How do you carry all your supplies? ie: nutrition, supplies (creme, etc.), extra clothes, ... Food in prepared baggies? In your jersey pockets? Rack/bag? With my new saddle, I have zero, nil, nada, seatpost available to attach my quick release rack. Even when I did use the rack (prior to this saddle), I wasn't able to use a bag because of the weight distribution. I'd put supplies in gallon size ziplock bags and bungee them to the rack-low and very close to the rack itself. Now w/ no seatpost, I'm in search of a handlebar bag that can accommodate my supplies, but again, what do you take, how much, and how do you carry it?

RA

[Too Tall]

Hun, PAC tour is a supported ride so a generous saddlebag is all I want and that hangs off the saddle rails. Your options are:
1. Mount an extra waterbottle (twofish and clamp ons) on the downtube to hold powdered energy drink mix.
2. Seatpack. Jaand has expandable jobs that are good for me to ride 8 to 12 hrs. (flattened baggies of dry energy mix etc.), tubes, basic tools, spares)
3. Hydration pack with elastic web thingee. You can put all sorts of garbage into the bag itself or the pocket and the bungee thingee is real nice to stuff a rain shell or what have you.
4. Pockets
5. Last choice for a 600 brevet is a handlebar bag because you have not ridden with one before and they change how your bike feels. The Riv. Boxy setup is keen ;)

[RABikes2]

Hun, PAC tour is a supported ride so a generous saddlebag is all I want and that hangs off the saddle rails. Your options are:
1. Mount an extra waterbottle (twofish and clamp ons) on the downtube to hold powdered energy drink mix.
2. Seatpack. Jaand has expandable jobs that are good for me to ride 8 to 12 hrs. (flattened baggies of dry energy mix etc.), tubes, basic tools, spares)
3. Hydration pack with elastic web thingee. You can put all sorts of garbage into the bag itself or the pocket and the bungee thingee is real nice to stuff a rain shell or what have you.
4. Pockets
5. Last choice for a 600 brevet is a handlebar bag because you have not ridden with one before and they change how your bike feels. The Riv. Boxy setup is keen ;)
Thanks TT.
I carry an 80cu seatpack w/ tubes, tools, spares, etc. The hydration pack has been done in years past, but carrying the bag on my back for hours doesn't thrill me (back issues). I bought a handlebar bag two years ago and then went to the click release rack (I had some seatpost showing back then). The handlebar bag went to one of my riding buddies. I borrowed it back this year and did the 300k and 400k w/ it on my bike. I'll check out the Riv. Boxy setup :confused: . Topeak has a handlebar bag, but not sure how lighting (mounting) would work with it.

Thanks for the input; I wanted to explore other more experienced distance riders ideas. I've questioned the effectiveness of my setup many times. I sometimes feel like a pack mule.

RA ;)

[72gmc]

znfdl: try painrelieversdotcom for some 'wearable' hot/cold pack options for knees. I have one at home that straps on not unlike a knee brace and is a very good thing.

RA, didn't Smiley post a Serotta to the image gallery a while ago (built for PBP I believe) that had a funky double-decker bottle cage? That might work for you.

Good on all of you, PacTour riders and otherwise. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Edit: I have not actually purchased anything from painrelieversdotcom but theirs look somewhat like what I have. I believe mine is a Spenco from days gone by.

[znfdl]

znfdl: try painrelieversdotcom for some 'wearable' hot/cold pack options for knees. I have one at home that straps on not unlike a knee brace and is a very good thing.

Thanks.

[H1449-6]

Check your PM for an offer of support in/near Little Rock, AR.

[Birddog]

TT
Hun, PAC tour is a supported ride

Does this mean that they will have predetermined places for you to reload your water bottles? The reason I ask is because the stretch from Talihena to Mena has only two places to obtain water. One is 7 miles out from Talihena, and the other is near Mena at the Queen Wilhelmina Lodge. There's about 40+ long and hard, hot and humid miles between those two places and I know I can't make it on 2 water bottles.

Birddog

[Too Tall]

;) Yes yes, typically they setup the first stop 1.5 hrs. ride time from the hotel so folks can adjust cloths and grab leftover bagels subsequent stops are spaced 30-40 miles apart which is fine for experienced RAAM types. Queen and I have our "routine" down pat. We begin with full 70oz hydration packs (plain water) and 2 three hrs. fuel bottles on the bike. Our goal each morning is to ride 70'ish miles non stop at a moderate pace before we stop for water than pickup the pace to lunch stop at the 1/2 way on a typical 170+ mile ride....we top off hydration packs at the 1/2 way point, grab fresh fuel bottles...eat a little pasta and ride moderately for 2 hrs. and than motor into the hotel. EzyPezy eh? :rolleyes: Consumables: ~180oz water, ~3000kcals, 18-30 endurolytes, 9-10 race caps, EPO-crackalanine, 1 oz arse

[93legendti]

TT, saw a new, portable, french press "sip and go" in Starbucks today. Small and $7.95--just in case your coffee search is still ongoing.

[Too Tall]

Fat dumb and happy...should have known.

less than 30 miles into a planned 130 mile ride and something happend that has not happened in many yrs. We broke a chain link.

1. Squashed new deraillaur
2. Bent DT Hub axel and cracked retaining flange
3. Bent Der. hanger

ZNFNDL fresh from a week training in AZ saved the day and hauled our sorry butts home in the Volvo Meat Wagon :( :(

Awwwwww nertz. I might have to do the wheels mfg. drop out saver dealio...feeling a bit sick over the wasted day more than anything.

Anywho I needed to talk to Joe Young, he is a breath of fresh air. Joe promised to "get on it" right away. It's the little things like being able to pick up the phone and make it all better yah know?

Peace.

[zap]

That sucks.

But you will be fresh for tomorrow's computrainer races :rolleyes:

Aren't you glad that there are Volvo meatwagons located in strategic locals.

[RABikes2]

I've got my 600k this weekend
Due to the crazy storms with complimentary tornadoes (talk about some strong wind) that came through yesterday and last night across the Southeast, the ride was canceled. I still rode here yesterday and encountered 20-30 mph winds. It was great when it was a tailwind, but talk about being almost stopped in your tracks going into it :crap: ! The temperature yesterday was in the 80's and I wore a sleeveless jersey...it dropped, fast. The rainstorms with the cold front during the night changed the weather considerably; right now...55 degrees with 22 mph winds gusting to 35 mph.

Maybe I should just go make my homemade chili... :rolleyes:

TT-sorry to hear about the bike malfunction; how's the bike repair coming along?

RA

[Too Tall]

RAdarlin' - JINX!!!! I JUST made a a huge batch of cowboy chili for my workmates who apparently think that it's fantastic woo woo. Love it when folks like my cooking. Glad to share recipes. Mine is about 200 yrs. old. "Simple Bowl of Red".

Yesterday I arrived home to find a big box of new tandem part$$ waiting for me :) Woo woo. We are back in biz. Now I'll wait with baited breath for Joe "HEISAG-D" Young to finish a replacement rear with (fingers crossed) a uber exclusive campag freehub body mated to the new 540 tandem hub..awwwright!

Kudos to ZNFNDL for feeding me yummy burritos while I finished rebuilding his bike for Elite tour...burp. Didyah notice that I didn't hit the garbage bin even once when I chucked wire/cable cut offs? No wonder I never played basketball :rolleyes:

[zap]

Didyah notice that I didn't hit the garbage bin even once when I chucked wire/cable cut offs? No wonder I never played basketball :rolleyes:

I could have sworn I saw you bit cables to size, spit the bits in a bucket and smooth the ends with your palms........

[znfdl]

Kudos to ZNFNDL for feeding me yummy burritos while I finished rebuilding his bike for Elite tour...burp. Didyah notice that I didn't hit the garbage bin even once when I chucked wire/cable cut offs? No wonder I never played basketball :rolleyes:

A burrito a day will keep most people happy....

You might not have gotten the bits and pieces in the garbage bin, but I was there for the rebound and the ultimate disposal.

[Too Tall]

Yeah Zap, rowing builds burly men :rolleyes: A claim this skinny neck geek will never own....sad ain't it?

Next up...technically-wise. Is to fit a 9 spd. index ring into the campy 10 spd. bar end and test it. That's my backup for elite tour incase of an ERGO malfunction.

[znfdl]

Had the pleasure of riding with Too Tall and Queen for a quick 120 miles last Saturday. I can honestly say that riding behind them on tandem is almost like cheating, as my average heart rate was 15bpm lower than when I do the same ride solo. Sometimes being a short guy is beneficial ;)

[39cross]

Had the pleasure of riding with Too Tall and Queen for a quick 120 miles last Saturday. I can honestly say that riding behind them on tandem is almost like cheating, as my average heart rate was 15bpm lower than when I do the same ride solo. Sometimes being a short guy is beneficial ;)Znfdl, do you have the Vanilla yet? Sorry if I missed it in the forum.

[tch]

of these words.... Not sure I will ever type something like them.
Had the pleasure of riding with Too Tall and Queen for a quick 120 miles last Saturday. I can honestly say that riding behind them on tandem is almost like cheating
Or perhaps only if I was hitched directly to the bike.

It takes all kinds, as my mother used to say.....

[znfdl]

I took Too Tall and Queen on my favorite training loop yesterday, Vienna-Paris-Vienna, which is my European ride without leaving the confines of Virginia (Yes there is a Paris, Virginia). The ride is 138 miles long with 8,700 feet of climbing. The ride goes through some of the prettiest horse country in Virginia. The farm that has Belted galloway cows moved them to another field. If you have never seen a belted cow, they are dark brown except for a white stripe around the middle of it's torso. The ride is laid out so that we take our first break at mile 75 and then ride back to the start. It was a nice day except for some scattered rain showers that we hit and I am still using floss to get some sand out from between my teeth. It was a good PacTour training day as we came in with a 17.25 mph average without killing ourselves. Too Tall and Queen are riding quite strong. Overall a great day in the saddle.

[RABikes2]

Okay, I'm probably micro-questioning your words (but I've got to ask), ...when you say you took your first "break" at 75 miles, do you mean you didn't pee for the first 75 miles?! Or you don't count pee breaks as an actual "break"? Also, how many hours (bike and total) did it take to ride the 138 miles?

Crud, I did 245 miles (400k) by myself a week ago Friday and 103 miles yesterday. Wish you all were closer so I could draft off of you (drafting is probably the only way I could stay with you guys, too!) You three motivate me...awesome...unbelievable!

RA

[rwsaunders]

Okay, I'm probably micro-questioning your words (but I've got to ask), ...when you say you took your first "break" at 75 miles, do you mean you didn't pee for the first 75 miles?! Or you don't count pee breaks as an actual "break"? Also, how many hours (bike and total) did it take to ride the 138 miles?

Crud, I did 245 miles (400k) by myself a week ago Friday and 103 miles yesterday. Wish you all were closer so I could draft off of you (drafting is probably the only way I could stay with you guys, too!) You three motivate me...awesome...unbelievable!

RA

RABikes2: If Too Tall lets us in on his superhuman bathroom holding ability excercises (SBHAE's), he'll have given away all of his secrets. Please don't expect too much of the man.

[znfdl]

RA:

Pee breaks are quick and by the road. Our first true break was to refill water reservoirs and mix some more hammer products. Our goal for Pac Tour is to a perform a refuel about every 70 miles. Riding time was 8:01 and total time about 8:20.

[RABikes2]

RA:Our first true break was to refill water reservoirs and mix some more hammer products. Our goal for Pac Tour is to a perform a refuel about every 70 miles.
Do you carry two large waterbottles and a Camelback (or more)? Your fluids last 70 miles? I'm amazed you don't have to reload more often.
RA

[znfdl]

RA:

On most days 70 miles will take anywhere from 3.5 to 4 hours.

I try to drink 20-24 ounces of water per hour. If I drink much more than 24 ounces per hour, I feel bloated and the liquids start sloshing in my stomach. I usually drink something every 5 minutes to continually get small amounts of liquid. I carry a 70 ounce bladder and two 24 ounce water bottles. The water bottles have less than 24 ounces of water, as each bottle has 2 scoops of perpetuem and 3 scoops of sustained energy (For me ithis constitutes 4-5 hours of calories. I also carry other calories on an as needed basis.) Unless it is a really hot day, this should easily last 4 - 5 hours. Yesterday was nice, as the high temperature was only in the high 70s.

[saab2000]

If you are in a rural area peeing only requires slowing down. No need to stop. Just remember to aim downwind.

[Too Tall]

Zzzzzzz, DOH! Sorry for the lag....busy recovering from all the training...yeowwie it's been tough I'm not going to kid you. Memorial Day long weekend concluded our final phase of taper with three very fast 70/80 milers. I'm TIRED dangit! Much needed rest, massage and clean living are in order until we begin riding across the USA June 10. Everything has come together nicely. RWSaunders, bro if there were a secret to all this madness...I mean one secret and not a story book than it is to have a good plan and stick to it. OK ok I "cheat" because I've been an ultradistance rider for yrs. and yrs. and I coach so maaaaybe I know a few things you don't but not really. Most of the problems I see folks having are due to trying to re-invent solutions that were solved a long time ago. If I were to sit down and really resolve the fundamentals of how to train for and accomplish an ultra distance event nobody should be surprise to learn that basic tenants are things we all know and perhaps choose to ignore.

ZNFNDL and I have mentored each other at diff. times. He is the guy who orig. got me into Ultras and now I'm the guy who is coaching him and providing nutritional guidance. Point is, you need good advice at diff. times from folks you trust and are avail. to support you. Ultra racing is a massively selfish sport!!! Your time away from family and friends will only reveal it's extent when you get off the bike and take a break!!! Serious.

Anywho, the tandem with all it's nuances and "special needs" is Ultra-worthy. I've freshened up all the bits that needed work or replacing and just a thought G-D BLESS JOE YOUNG :) Yeah that Texas-Hippy is the best ever. He provided me with a dedicated Campy / DT rear wheel and a rebuilt front in record time and I know it will last until it needs to be cut up. Joe Young is Da Man and he's a certified hippy...just ask...go figure..granola snappin' yogi-maven. OMG. The guys creed' went up about 10 more notches.

Thank you for reading and pls. if you have time during our ride to send e-mail it will mean alot. Many of y'all have my regular email address otherwise send to info@ahealinghand.com The website has a link to the Elite Pac Tour 2007 where (fingers crossed) you should see nightly updates with pics. lizards and funny tan lines ;)

[Too Tall]

Okay, I'm probably micro-questioning your words (but I've got to ask), ...when you say you took your first "break" at 75 miles, do you mean you didn't pee for the first 75 miles?! Or you don't count pee breaks as an actual "break"? Also, how many hours (bike and total) did it take to ride the 138 miles?

Crud, I did 245 miles (400k) by myself a week ago Friday and 103 miles yesterday. Wish you all were closer so I could draft off of you (drafting is probably the only way I could stay with you guys, too!) You three motivate me...awesome...unbelievable!

RA
RA-hun, ZNFNDL explained our scheme for pace better than I can. We've trained ourselves to ride to the limit of our water which in ideal circumstances is 100 miles...that's on a cool day.

Pee breaks take on a whole new dimension when you've got Queen on board. We stop for quick ones as needed, only takes a quick min. Why suffer?

[saab2000]

TT,

Nice riding with you on Sunday! And nice meeting Mrs. TT. Had a fun ride through the park and back into DC and roaring down Wisconsin Ave back into Georgetown. What a zoo that street is! Love it. By the end I had 57 miles and a nice little ride.

Sunday I did 60.

Nothing compared to your rides, but satisfying for me given my current fitness level.

Anyway, it is nice to read about the ultra-distance riding. I wish I could do it, but work don't allow it. Yet.

[Kevan]

I'm looking forward to reading your updates and seeing those silly tan lines.

"Ultra racing is a massively selfish sport!!! Your time away from family and friends will only reveal it's extent when you get off the bike and take a break!!! Serious."

I can only imagine the extent self-absorption such an event requires, and rightfully so. My own minor accomplishments of last season racked me with guilt being away from the family as much as I was. Maybe they preferred it, I think I was a better person upon returning from my rides, but coping with guilt is certainly part of the entire dedication process.

TT, it would be terrific to get the Queen's perspective of this event too. You two are very fortunate to share the passion. I've talked tandem with my wife and she ain't even nibblin'.

Have a safe, fun, and healthful ride. I hope the spirit of the communities you ride through treat you as a favorable wind. My fingers are crossed that the weather supports you. Know that every mile you ride, every turn of the crank you power, is supported by us here. I think there are many of us seriously jonesing what you three are about to do. I also think you can expect a flood of email.

[RABikes2]

I'm looking forward to reading your updates and seeing those silly tan lines.
TT, it would be terrific to get the Queen's perspective of this event too. You two are very fortunate to share the passion.
Have a safe, fun, and healthful ride. I hope the spirit of the communities you ride through treat you as a favorable wind. My fingers are crossed that the weather supports you. Know that every mile you ride, every turn of the crank you power, is supported by us here. I think there are many of us seriously jonesing what you three are about to do. I also think you can expect a flood of email.
+100,000 !!!
So very well said Kevan. We're behind you three all the way and can't wait to read everything!
RA

[Nick H.]

I was just reading the training advice on the PAC Tour site and found this: "Ride 200 miles in less than 12 hours at least three times before the tour. Warning: this is a minimum standard. Most Elite PAC Tour riders can ride 200 miles in under ten hours."

Yikes! How many of us ever reach this level? I'm speechless.

[sg8357]

[snip] Most Elite PAC Tour riders can ride 200 miles in under ten hours."

Yikes! How many of us ever reach this level? I'm speechless.

Retirees and Dentists are way over represented in the 200m/10 hour club.

So now you why dental work cost so much, you see my dentist's bike
herd.

Scott G.

[znfdl]

I was just reading the training advice on the PAC Tour site and found this: "Ride 200 miles in less than 12 hours at least three times before the tour. Warning: this is a minimum standard. Most Elite PAC Tour riders can ride 200 miles in under ten hours."

Yikes! How many of us ever reach this level? I'm speechless.

Nick, ultra training is very different than most training that people will do. My training is geared towards raising my cruising speed. I started training for this cross country ride in 07 back in early 06. In early 06 I had a good base and my normal cruising speed was 17-18 mph on flat terrain, with a heart rate in the low 140s.

After the training that I have done this year with my plan from Too Tall (Thanks again for your patience with me), my cruising average for a mountainous ride is in the low 17mph range with a heart rate in the mid 130s. On flat rides I can maintain 20-21 mph for a long periods of time and if the wind is not bad, my heart rate will be in 120s - low 130s. During the winter I was doing back to back centuries on my computrainer, averaging a little over 190 watts and 21 mph and reduced my average heart rate from 150 to 135.

The fastest solo double I did was 9:38 which allowed me to do 402 miles in 19:58. This ride took place in Illinois and the terrain was much flatter than Virginia.

If you would like to be able to do this type of riding, set up a training and nutrition plan with Too Tall, as his plan has let this 46 year old body perform as it did back in 1990.

The other important aspect of ultra riding is maintaining your body. I get a 45 minute massage once a week, I see my chiropractor every two weeks (preventative maintenance) and I have a very controlled diet.

[Nick H.]

I am hoping to achieve (or TRY to achieve) your kind of daily distances unsupported over the next year. Because of limits on baggage space I never use sports drinks, bars, gels and so on - just regular food you buy on the road - an 'old school' approach to nutrition you might say. In the past I have found that trail mix, water, subs and bananas keep me going at a 16 mph average for up to 10 hours. Any thoughts?

[znfdl]

Just in case anyone was wondering where the riders are from for the cross country tour, here is a state and country count.

State Count
AZ 1
CA 6
CO 2
FL 1
GA 2
IA 1
IL 4
IN 1
KS 1
MA 1
MD 2
MI 1
MN 1
MO 1
NM 1
NC 1
NY 4
OH 2
OR 1
PA 3
VA 1
WA 3

Country Count
Australia 2
Canada 1
Denmark 1
Italy 1
Netherlands 1
New Zealand 1

Total 48

[Too Tall]

I am hoping to achieve (or TRY to achieve) your kind of daily distances unsupported over the next year. Because of limits on baggage space I never use sports drinks, bars, gels and so on - just regular food you buy on the road - an 'old school' approach to nutrition you might say. In the past I have found that trail mix, water, subs and bananas keep me going at a 16 mph average for up to 10 hours. Any thoughts?

What you say is very achievable given positive past experiances and some good insight as to what works and does not. I've seen it done and no finer example than Pete Pennsyres who is king of the 7-11 pit stop ;)

Also, if you ride at a conservative pace keeping HR and effort well out of tempo or > than you can eat all sorts of things that otherwise might not work if riding at a faster pace. Temper what I just said with some sensitivity to your present adaptation and physical readiness for riding. An unadapted athlete will react to riding at any pace as if it were much harder and require diff. nutritional needs...blah blah blah. I'm qualifying alot aren't I?? :rolleyes:

Anywho, as an example of this just to agree and support what you say...during PBP there won't be a ready supply of Sustained Energy ;) What I've done is to fill water bottles with salty soup (sports drink) and stuff a ham and butter sandwhich in my pocket and keep riding. You must back down the pace to an recovery level so that you are able to digest this without consequences...give it 30 mins. and than bump the pace back up carefully.

More than one way to skin a cat bro. :)

[davep]

Too Tall,

For PBP, I was planning on carrying 400k worth of Sustained Energy with me (along with bars and such), with another 800k in my drop bag to restock each time I hit Loudea. Is this feasible?

[Too Tall]

You could. Of course there is the "let's do this the same way everyone else is doing it" thing. :) Serious. Why not unencumber yourself and embrace this event to it's fullest? Carry this and that but get real food at controls and be intelligent about it. Also, just before and just after all the controls you'll find plentiful boulangers, pattiseries etc. You will be pleased that many many businesses are open at all hrs. just for the event and will push aside locals to serve you. Missing out on this aspect would be plain wrong.

If you are doing this FAST than many controls have quick food avail. outside the usual cafetierias etc. Look at the distances between controls and you'll see it is pretty dang logical and possible to ride self- supported without carrying powders and mixes.

Soup goes in bottle :) Heck, carry a wide mouth small bottle and potato and pasta too :) Stuff your pockets at controls and munch steady. NO SUGAR!!!! Easy on the fruit. Go for the plain pastas, potato and plain proteins. There is LOTS of water along the route. Kids, moms and grannys will fill your bottles.

Yes, I'd encourage you to simplify and shuck everything you can. Do it the way it was ment to be done. IF I were headed back again...AND I AIN'T...than this is how I'd roll.

[Too Tall]

Yikes, this is it. We leave this friday for San Diego. Everything is good to go.
Our training for the last 10 days is easy easy easy followed by easy after some hard fast back to back short rides. Rested is the goal before these monster rides and everything is on track.

You should be able to get web updates beginning June 9 at:
www.ahealinghand.com Click on "Elite PAC tour 2007"

Much appreciate if you see any broken links etc. this week give me a heads up and I'll fix.

[stevep]

tt,
have a great trip.
i hope you 2 smack it and all goes smoothly.
a memorable trip for sure.
s

[Ray]

I'll be following along online. The only drag is there's no way to get the Queen another seat on that Vanilla and ride THAT across country. Seems like the perfect bike if you were doing the ride solo.

Have fun,

-Ray

[Len J]

and I'll be both following and sending you positive energy.

Good Luck & Tail winds.

Len

[manet]

Yikes, this is it.

.

[William]

Best of luck Titan pal!!! May you and the crew have a safe & exciting trip.






William

[A.L.Breguet]

Yikes, this is it. We leave this friday for San Diego. Everything is good to go.
Our training for the last 10 days is easy easy easy followed by easy after some hard fast back to back short rides. Rested is the goal before these monster rides and everything is on track.

You should be able to get web updates beginning June 9 at:
www.ahealinghand.com Click on "Elite PAC tour 2007"

Much appreciate if you see any broken links etc. this week give me a heads up and I'll fix.
Was just on da site. Looks good.
We believe.

[A.L.Breguet]

TT is loading some great pics!

http://www.ahealinghand.com/2007%20Elite%20PAC%20tour/060907report.htm

[Too Tall]

Maaaaaan nobody told me the desert was HOT....waaazzzap with that? ;)

Interesting day fer sher. We had a newbie rider and Stu latched on tight most of the day and vowed to soft pedal everything and linger at a couple rest stops. That plan worked pretty well considering there is no way on g-ds green earth to soft pedal 65+ miles of climbing hmmm. Once we descended into the desert and BOY what a descent....10 miles of 50 mph freeway white knuckle let'r go stuff....we were able to hold a solid 20 avg. across the flats and low drags even into some wind. We are riding strong however we are NOT NOT NOT well adapted to extreme heat and effort. Maryland had a very cool spring that lingered. Queen is taking the worst of it with classic inner thigh cramps today from mile 50. She pounded endurolytes and cut calories to get by and that worked. We made one quick stop for water early than zipped to chow at mile 76 than a quick stop at 116 where we waited for ZNFNDL to catch back and the newbie rider. Queen entertained the troops with clever placements of ice packs :rolleyes: I *think we are the first tandem to attempt Elite tour???

Anywho, tomorrow is a "recovery day" haha and is a flat 191 miles. I'm more a'feared of THAT ride because it is flat and flat rides HURT.

Peace y'all, thanks for the "love notes" and if the Blackberry continues to connect from west nowhere's -ville I'll keep in touch.

PS - there are a TON of Serotta's on this ride. Even one fellow with a totally de-badged Ottrott. haha I told him "nice Ottrott" and he said "oh how could you tell?" Bwaaaaaa hahahaha as if. Peace, TT

[rwsaunders]

TT...How the heck do you have the energy to post from the road on a ride like this? Keep it up! It's as exciting as following the Tour.

[fiamme red]

Two more blogs:

Tom Rosenbauer, Eastern PA Regional Brevet Administrator:
http://users.rcn.com/trosenbauer/EliteTour2007.html

George Metzler:
http://www.georgemetzler.blogspot.com/

[manet]

.

[onekgguy]

Awesome...I really am in awe!

Kevin g

[Louis]

If you're going to draft someone out there, it might as well be a 6' 8" guy on a tandem...

[Kevan]

your adventure is so...so totally awesome. I can't imagine such fortitude as what you all are experiencing. We love you guys!

(Umm...on the side: If it wasn't such a remarkable, well-organized effort, I'd say you all belong in a padded cell.)

Keep those spirits high, your chain well lubed, and the pictures and commentary coming.

Go!
Go!
Go!
Go!
Go!
Go!
Go!!!!!

DAGNABIT!!!!!!

[Andreas]

This is awesome. Keep us updated.

TT, I see Lon is riding his Quickbeam again. Being a way lesser Quickbeam rider myself I am interested in a couple of things:
I assume he is riding fixed?
42x15?
Does he ever flip the wheel or is he riding everything on the same gear inches?

Thanks, and have a great time!
Certainly looks like a lifetime adventure!

[fiamme red]

TT, I see Lon is riding his Quickbeam again.http://bp0.blogger.com/_9Bc_zuC6S0U/Rm4nqLispUI/AAAAAAAAAGo/XyAIfIb06D0/s320/Lon+Fixing+broken+chain.jpg

[fiamme red]

Two more blogs:

Tom Rosenbauer, Eastern PA Regional Brevet Administrator:
http://users.rcn.com/trosenbauer/EliteTour2007.html

George Metzler:
http://www.georgemetzler.blogspot.com/One more, Sandiway Fong's blog:

http://sandiway.blogspot.com/

I had FOUR flats on the rear tire. I carry 2 spare tubes.

The first time there was an loud bang at the lunch stop. Prior to that, I had been making good time.

The ride for me went to pieces after that. 3 more flats, meaning I had to ride on a flat for 5 miles. Plus it's no fun changing a tire in 100+ degree heat with no shade with the asphalt too hot to touch.

[manet]

here now borrowed from the above mentioned blog:

Josh Simonds and Doreen Chaitt are the only tandem team here. The tandem climbed at a pace I could manage, and (lacking a drum drag or disc brake) had more momentum than God downhill. I averaged nearly 23mph for 35 miles just following their wheel.

[djg]

here now borrowed from the above mentioned blog:

Josh Simonds and Doreen Chaitt are the only tandem team here. The tandem climbed at a pace I could manage, and (lacking a drum drag or disc brake) had more momentum than God downhill. I averaged nearly 23mph for 35 miles just following their wheel.

What's going on? Did somebody muscle Znfndl off TT and the Queen's wheel?

[manet]

and another:

Amusing anecdote for the day: At the 75 mile lunch stop (Jacumba), I went across the road to the local store.
Posted there was a sign clearly marked "NO PUBLIC RESTROOMS".
I bought a candy bar and asked to use the restroom.
The guy behind the counter said: "You're not supposed to but go ahead."
When I came out, he asked me: "How long did it take you to get here?"
I replied: 5 hours from San Diego.
He said: "The bus takes 3 hours!"

[manet]

What's going on? Did somebody muscle Znfndl off TT and the Queen's wheel?

TT et Queen probably selling space to pay for dinner

[Ray]

According to Sandiway Fong's blog, as of day 4, "the only tandem team are gone". Ed Pavelka crashed and broke his hip. Sandiway is having trouble (he's a crazy strong rider, for those who've never met him), barely finishing yesterday. Sounds like an absolutely killer ordeal.

Sorry to hear that Too Tall and Queen had to bail, but I can't imagine doing a fraction of those distances in the conditions they faced. If you guys are reading, I hope you're feeling ok, are in good spirits, and are in AIR CONDITIONING somewhere. No shame in not finishing THAT ride!

Don't know about ZNFDL - hope he's still riding.

-Ray

[Kevan]

no matter the distance traveled! I raise my waterbottle as a toast.

[soulspinner]

no matter the distance traveled! I raise my waterbottle as a toast.

+1

[justinf]

Cheers TT and Queen. :beer: mad props to you guys.

[Ginger]

The sort of heat they're riding through is ugly. I hope there was no serious lasting damage and TooTall, the Queen, and Znfdl are ok.

[manet]

spoke to TT. he said the heat ruined it. they're doing ok and
headed east, to a relaxing beach.

[sc53]

Is Znfndl still going?

[manet]

no mention of zn.

[Ginger]

Too Tall and the Queen are wise. I hope they hit a few beaches on their journey east. (unless of course, they're flying...in which case...ya know...)

[Climb01742]

this is a part of sports that can be so frustrating and "unfair". you do all the training, planning, sacrificing...you do everything humanly possible to achieve your goal...then something beyond your control stops you. it stinks. but the true achievement is have the courage to dare and to train to do something amazing. i hope you're proud, TT and queen. we are of you.

[djg]

Bummer, but props to you folks for sure for the training and the miles you did. 104 degrees is just way freaking hot -- we're not made for that.

I hope that znfndl is doing alright.

When y'all get off the bikes: :beer:

[Ray]

this is a part of sports that can be so frustrating and "unfair". you do all the training, planning, sacrificing...you do everything humanly possible to achieve your goal...then something beyond your control stops you. it stinks. but the true achievement is have the courage to dare and to train to do something amazing. i hope you're proud, TT and queen. we are of you.
I don't think the conditions they encountered are out of the ordinary or unexpected. This is the desert in mid-June. I grew up in Tucson, which is cooler than what they were riding through, and summer heat down there is nothing to be trifled with. I just don't think that there's any way to train for those conditions without training IN those conditions. And doing a 190 mile flattish ride into a heat furnace headwind sandwiched between equally hot days of 125ish and 150ish is something it may not be possible to prepare for - some folks will just luck out and survive it a bit better than others. In the absolute best shape of my life, when I LIVED down there, there's no way I'd have ever been able to even come close to finishing that day 2 ride, even as a single-day effort with plenty of strength at the start and plenty of time to recover before doing another ride. That stuff is just harsh.

The folks who actually do finish this ride are something beyond superhuman in my book. Those who attempted it and realized that sometimes discretion is the better part of valor are both superhuman and SMART.

Glad they're doing fine and hope they have a great soak in the nice cool ocean - jeez can you imagine the hallucinations of such a scene would have inspired while riding through that furnace?

-Ray

[fiamme red]

I don't think the conditions they encountered are out of the ordinary or unexpected. This is the desert in mid-June. I grew up in Tucson, which is cooler than what they were riding through, and summer heat down there is nothing to be trifled with. I just don't think that there's any way to train for those conditions without training IN those conditions.Sandiway lives in Tucson, and presumably has acclimatized himself to riding in that kind of heat, and even he's been having great difficulty.

[72gmc]

I'm sure they are disappointed, but I'm glad they pulled the plug. TT's brief blog description of the troubles they were having, primarily the Queen's trouble with the heat, was worrisome. They're a heck of a team and have their priorities straight.

[soulspinner]

Cheers TT and Queen. :beer: mad props to you guys.


+++++++1111111

[Nick H.]

Anybody got any tips for riding long distances in the heat? Best clothing? Anybody wear a mesh base layer/string vest? (I do.) How about De Soto Arm Coolers - do they work?

[rpm]

I see from Roadbikerider.com that Ed Pavelka will be getting a hip replacement shortly, and that Fred Matheny blew up in the heat. For them, and for TT and Queen I feel both sympathy and admiration.

I think it's important that every once in a while we push our limits and see where the demon lives. Every time I do that, I find that my limits have gotten a little closer, but I believe that the mere act of finding that out keeps them from closing in still further. Age and infirmity gradually reduce our physical skills, but we don't have to give away any more than we have to.

[Tom]

this is a part of sports that can be so frustrating and "unfair". you do all the training, planning, sacrificing...you do everything humanly possible to achieve your goal...then something beyond your control stops you. it stinks. but the true achievement is have the courage to dare and to train to do something amazing. i hope you're proud, TT and queen. we are of you.

Exactly what I was thinking but don't have the skill to put so well.

[Nick H.]

Another question - how many Elite PAC Tour riders generally complete the ride? The only numbers I can find on the PAC Tour site are for '98, when daily distances were even higher than they are now because the ride only lasted 15 days. (Now it's 17.) In that year 7 of the 43 entrants are listed as achieving RAAM qualification. Does that mean that 36 of them dropped out or missed a time cutoff and had to get in the sag wagon?

What a Herculean challenge. I would love to be fit enough to do it one day.

[sc53]

I see from Roadbikerider.com that Ed Pavelka will be getting a hip replacement shortly, and that Fred Matheny blew up in the heat. For them, and for TT and Queen I feel both sympathy and admiration.

I think it's important that every once in a while we push our limits and see where the demon lives. Every time I do that, I find that my limits have gotten a little closer, but I believe that the mere act of finding that out keeps them from closing in still further. Age and infirmity gradually reduce our physical skills, but we don't have to give away any more than we have to.

I saw a pic on one of the riders' blogs of Fred's shorts the day he crashed from the heat--I think the same day TT and Queen had to drop out. His shorts were completely caked in salt. And this is even though he and the others are chock full of that Hammer nutrition electrolytes and gel packs and what not. The human being is not built to ride 12 hrs, uphill, in a blast furnace, even with plenty of water and electrolytes. Those that survive have an extraordinary metabolism, sort of freakish like Lance's.

[jeffg]

The folks who actually do finish this ride are something beyond superhuman in my book. Those who attempted it and realized that sometimes discretion is the better part of valor are both superhuman and SMART.

Glad they're doing fine and hope they have a great soak in the nice cool ocean - jeez can you imagine the hallucinations of such a scene would have inspired while riding through that furnace?

-Ray

I simply cannot imagine attempting this. One DC with a few hours at 110+ almost did me in.

Take this story from Chuck Bramwell from that day and multiply times a zillion!

http://www.caltriplecrown.com/RoadEngTT.htm

[vaxn8r]

Another question - how many Elite PAC Tour riders generally complete the ride? The only numbers I can find on the PAC Tour site are for '98, when daily distances were even higher than they are now because the ride only lasted 15 days. (Now it's 17.) In that year 7 of the 43 entrants are listed as achieving RAAM qualification. Does that mean that 36 of them dropped out or missed a time cutoff and had to get in the sag wagon?

What a Herculean challenge. I would love to be fit enough to do it one day.
I have a friend who did PAC Tour in 1994 and it was 17 days.

[39cross]

Any word on znfdl - is he still in the thick of it?

[sbornia]

Any word on znfdl - is he still in the thick of it?

Sandiway Fong's blog entry for today mentions riding with Stuart Levy, so it looks like he's still cruising. See here: http://sandiway.blogspot.com/

[Too Tall]

HEY Y'All we are back in the east in a rented beach house healing up mentally and physically from the rides. BEFORE saying anything more please believe me that your support has been phenominal. "This" really is all we have. There isn't anything more. Thank You from the bottom of my heart.

ZNFNDL (Stuart) is riding well and getting stronger. I get daily phone calls so can keep you posted. He is in the best shape of his life and I've known Stu for 15 yrs. GO BOY GO :)

Our decision to leave had everything to do with what came before. Had we never accomplished anything this would have ended differently. We've been fortunate and lucky to have finish multiple transcontinentals and decent PBP results. Without those accomplishments and other life changing events we'd probably have stay on the Elite Tour until such a point where we were either dragged to the hospital or stopped by the organizers. We did not stop riding becuase we could not ride...we stopped because it was inevitable that we'd require support to finish the ride in the form of van rides and off days and most importantly...we stopped because we were proud of ourselves for giving it our best shot. Ultimately that shot was not enough. :(

There is a Japanese term for the concept of having a return of fortune....in otherwords to have back that last little bit you lost along the way which caused a catastrophic end to your quest / journey. Prev. remarks implied that this may frustrate me and it does not. The journey, the training, preparation, planning and all that went before will live on in pleasant memories. In time so will our attempt to cross the USA in 17 days. Regret nothing. This was a wonderful experience.

We are changed and for the better, we just don't know how....yet.

Please. As kind as you all were I'd like to answer any and all questions you've got. Nothing off limits.

PS - Sandy-Way Fong is my new best friend ;) Very cool dewd.

[vaxn8r]

I'm still beyond impressed. Heal up.

[davids]

TT,

Observing you and the Queen go through your training, preparation, and participation just plain increased my already-sky-high respect for you. I'm proud to know you, even just a teensy bit!

Rest up and enjoy yourselves.

[soulspinner]

I'm still beyond impressed. Heal up.

+1
Way 2 go Stuart..

[weisan]

For those of us who got interested in this and would like to know what happened next....here's a guy who's still riding in the tour.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/index-weekly.asp?memberid=57673&year=&month=&day=

[djg]

Thanks for the post too tall, and go Stuart. Mebbe a welcome back Serotta recovery spin and bbq in his honor and yours when he's back in town? (bbq means brisket and HN franks, nu?)

[Kevan]

Your response makes this story all the more...what's the expression I'm looking for...well, human, I guess.

Thank you for sharing your lives with us. If each of us ponder our own lives we can relate, in some manner, the noble efforts in "trying". The few successes I've personally had are indeed sweet, but the struggle without reward is my pride.

You, sir, with your queen, are the pride of this forum. Everyone here was clinging on to your inspiration and by everyone's account. for that, you have succeeded.

Welcome back.

[Len J]

Things of quality.......have no fear of time!

Bravo Josh & the Queen.......the victory is in the attempt, and the acceptance.

You 2 continue to be an inspiration to this old bag of bones.

All the best.

only 1 question from me........what would you do different?

Len

[tch]

...Our decision to leave had everything to do with what came before....... The journey, the training, preparation, planning and all that went before will live on in pleasant memories. In time so will our attempt to cross the USA in 17 days. We are changed and for the better, we just don't know how....yet.
What a wonderful reminder, once again, that it is the journey, not the destination, that makes a thing worth doing.
Be well guys.

[Too Tall]

DJG, yer on babe :)
Len, tough call. Given I've got several full time jobs the answer is nothing. IF we could have dropped everything and dedicated two additional months to prep. in the heat I am pretty sure we'd have made it....but you know the saying...woulda coulda shoulda. I'm very adverse to predicting the past ;)

Hey, we made some new friends and started a building project. (see below).
If anyone has questions on specifics etc. pls feel free to contact me.

[onekgguy]

TT...you two still rock!

If you hadn't had any additional time to prepare but had it all to do over again how would you change your approach if at all? Would training in warmer attire to simulate hotter conditions have been a help?

Kevin g

[Too Tall]

Yes, wearing additional clothing is a (miserable) alternative. I know one fellow on Elite who did that. Honest, if I had same consraints (time and environmental) there is nothing else we could have done. for instance...prior to leaving we were killing 130 to 190 mile rides at avg. speeds that are faster than we've ever gone!!! Dewd...were are in great shape. (hope that doesn't sound like boasting). Some exceptional athletes esp. younger riders with real talent are better able to handle fast adaptation. Yeah, I guess we could have turned on space heaters, donned sweaters and done indoor centuries? Nah.....

[Waldo]

I have a problem with Lon Haldeman and Susan Notorangelo's running a 17-day cross-country ride for amateurs -- yes, very, very strong amateurs -- through abhorrent conditions. I am sure they tell all the participants to train their tushies off, and tell them of the difficulties and dangers of the ride, and get them to sign releases signing away the rights to their 401(k)s and grandchildren in the event something happens to them, but who among us hasn't bitten off more than he/she can chew. Someone will get seriously hurt on one of their tours, and I am not talking Ed Pavelka's broken hip, but death or serious brain injury due to sun and heat exposure. And don't go comparing PAC to RAAM. Every RAAM rider and/or team has a support van attending to the riders' needs. PAC does not provide that kind of support. Irresposible, I say.

And good job Too Tall and Her Majesty!

Now, where do I sign up?

[Tom Byrnes]

Your response makes this story all the more...what's the expression I'm looking for...well, human, I guess.

Thank you for sharing your lives with us. If each of us ponder our own lives we can relate, in some manner, the noble efforts in "trying". The few successes I've personally had are indeed sweet, but the struggle without reward is my pride.

You, sir, with your queen, are the pride of this forum. Everyone here was clinging on to your inspiration and by everyone's account. for that, you have succeeded.

Welcome back.


++++1

Excellently stated, Kevan.

TT, the Queen, Stuart and all of the other PAC Elite riders are wonderful inspirations to all of us.

[sc53]

TT I have a question for you: where is that lovely near-deserted beach??? or is it too good a secret to tell the masses....
I've been reading Sandiway and the other's blogs (someone earlier in this thread posted the links) and it seems others are dropping from heat and miles as well. It's a superhuman feat in that heat. I thought maybe you and Queen could have set up your trainers in a sauna all spring, but it wouldn't have been worth it. You did it the right way, and you will now fly through your rides the rest of the summer here in DC, given the training you guys have done. Congratulations and esp. on being smart enough to accept your limits as presented last week. There's honor in that.

[Dennis1234]

I can't let what Vlad Luskin said stand. Lon and Susan do one hell of job putting on tours and supporting riders. I did the very first Elite Tour in 1997 (in fact Too Tall worked that tour) which was actually done in 14.5 days. Not 17. We were very well taken care of and there are no better or caring people to put on long distance events as Lon and Sue. NO TOUR PERVIDER can ever count on weather conditions, good or bad. That is mother nature.

[BURCH]

I have enjoyed this post from start to end. Thanks for sharing and many kuddos.

[Ray]

NO TOUR PERVIDER can ever count on weather conditions, good or bad. That is mother nature.
I'm not dissing Lon or Susan here. I'm sure they do a great job. It's true that no tour operator can count on good weather conditions and they can't control freak occurances like hurricanes, floods, tornados, etc. BUT, when you elect to ride from San Diego to the east through the California and Arizona desert in June, you can all but count on temperatures above 100 and very often above 105. This is typical, normal hot, not crazy abnormal hot in this area. It would be like planning a tour through Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo in January and claim that the tour operator couldn't have expected snow. The tour literature was clear about where the tour was going and when and it was up to the riders to decide whether they wanted to attempt it. But what this tour ran into in terms of heat was extremely typical for where and when they were riding.

Some folks signed up and appear to have gotten through it. Some folks, like TT and Queen, signed up and didn't quite get through it. The huge, enormous, vast majority of folks (including all the rest of us) didn't sign up. I plan to be first in line not to sign up again next year. I hope those who decide to try it know what they're getting themselves into. It'll probably be just as hot.

-Ray

[goonster]

I have a problem with Lon Haldeman and Susan Notorangelo's running a 17-day cross-country ride for amateurs -- yes, very, very strong amateurs -- through abhorrent conditions.

Do you have a problem with RAAM? Those guys are amateurs too.

[Nick H.]

Surely the point of the Elite Tour is to prove you could do the RAAM, which has the exact same risk of extreme heat. If the tour wasn't so hard it wouldn't make sense.

Everyone who signs up for the elite tour is all too aware of how tough it might be, and they know the chances of making it are slim. I doubt they need any of us to warn or protect them.

[97CSI]

The RAAM must last forever. Just filled up on the Black Horse Pike about 5 miles west of Atl. City and headed in the opposite direction was a rider and SAG vehicle headed east. No question that to finish is quite the feat. Didn't the winner roll in about ten days ago? Never say die.

[dauwhe]

The RAAM must last forever. Just filled up on the Black Horse Pike about 5 miles west of Atl. City and headed in the opposite direction was a rider and SAG vehicle headed east. No question that to finish is quite the feat. Didn't the winner roll in about ten days ago? Never say die.

Winner came in 3 days ago. The 14th solo ride (a rookie), John Jurczynski, just finished. I chatted with him a bit on a 100k populaire last year; he's a local randonneur. He rode 3043 miles in less than twelve days; average speed was something like 10.63mph.

I am utterly amazed at what these people do!

Dave

[97CSI]

Winner came in 3 days ago. The 14th solo ride (a rookie), John Jurczynski, just finished. I chatted with him a bit on a 100k populaire last year; he's a local randonneur. He rode 3043 miles in less than twelve days; average speed was something like 10.63mph. I am utterly amazed at what these people do! DaveObviously, it was the winning 'team' I was thinking of finishing last week. I'm with you. The solo folks are on another plane when it comes to their ultimate pain threshold.

[dauwhe]

Ah... I forgot about the teams entirely. That in itself must be quite the experience, but it just doesn't capture my imagination the way the solo riders do.

Dave

[billrick]

Our buddy Stuart Levy got a nice mention and photo in the Geezer's PAC blog:

Geezer PAC Blog (http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/index-weekly.asp?memberid=57673&year=&month=&day=)

Stu looks strong, but the note mentions that he is having some health issues. Sounds like he is out there riding anyway and helping pull folks eastward. How cool is that? Go Stuart!

:)

[weisan]

-

[weisan]

The ride ended. Go read the latest blog.

I wonder about these things:

- can I see a list of equipment each riders use on this ride?
- how they hold up against the daily onslaught?
- what you eating everyday?
- what works for you on an individual basis, and why?
- lessons learnt
- profile of each participant

[Too Tall]

Nick, you got it right Bro. The "essence" of Elite Tour is to both find your limits and prepare you for RAAM. It is no ordinary hard tour.

Just got a call from Stu and he is riding home.....IN A CAR geeze!!! He is tired and elated to have finished this monster. I'm very proud of his accomplishment.

That Beach is the S. end of Rehoboth, DE. A little sad while driving back on the spur of the moment called my real estate agent and booked a house for the week :) SWEEET. Swam several times a day and played bumper cars in the evening.

As for post training fitness goes I'm rested up and am riding two weeks of mixed tempo work with short NP (hard) efforts to bring back some USCF crit. / track racing ability and plan to keep some long rides in so that I don't crumble at Deerfield.