what tires for the rain bike?

[AngryScientist]

Seems like NJ is experiencing a typical PNW winter. Warm enough for me to ride outside, but wet wet wet. This saturday is predicted to be 63 degrees and rain. that's pretty antitypical for NJ in January.

anyway, my rain bike seems to be getting more miles this year, and needs some new rubber.

currently running a gatorskin in the rear, because, well....rear flats when it's coldish and wet are a major downer, but the gator doesnt really ride all that well.

are vittoria corsa controls the new go-to for the rain bike; or...?

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CXWgDgR3Ims/XfVg0hCogsI/AAAAAAAADZU/5sDoNZjpPoANX5wDj91K1VA8t7wdmN3HACEwYBhgL/s1200/IMG_4831.jpg

[Hilltopperny]

Gravel king slicks, Conti 4 seasons and Vittoria Corsa g+ are what I have tried for regular rain/foul weather with no major complaints other than side wall wear on the Corsas.


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[AngryScientist]

I'm actually going to be overhauling this bike this week. last time i rode it, the drivetrain sounded super crunchy, and the bar tape is almost gone. time for some refreshing of wear items and some new rubber.

i think the vittorias are going to get the nod.

[Hilltopperny]

They ride really nice and I honestly only had one flat on my first ride with them. A very sharp piece of glass that would have likely done the same on any other tire. There is also panaracer pasela tour guard.


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[MURDERF4CE]

Pasela PT/Protite

[FlashUNC]

Corsa Controls are where it's at.

[Pinned]

Can you fit a 30c tire? If so I would choose the Schwalbe G-One Speed.

[R3awak3n]

I am running gravel king SKs on the rain bike and they have been pretty good but I am wishing for no thread and bit better rolling resistance. I think tubeless is a must for rain tires I am starting to find and my next set I will set up tubeless (I would set these up tubeless but travel bike and don't want to mess with sealant in the travel bag but might as well do it and just deal with it).

[ltwtsculler91]

Corsa Controls. Fast, puncture resistant, and I have yet to ride a road tire that grips as well in the wet.

One of my teammates swears by them after winning a rain drenched crit on them last spring, and after getting caught in the rain on my Bedford with controls, I can see why. Next move is going to be switching my winter beater ALR from Zipp Tangente speeds to Corsa Controls in 28 once I kill these Zipps (which are GREAT and cheap for a fast rolling summer tire that can hold up to training)

[jtakeda]

Gravel king slicks, Conti 4 seasons and Vittoria Corsa g+ are what I have tried for regular rain/foul weather with no major complaints other than side wall wear on the Corsas.


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I like 4 seasons a lot but they’re expensive so I use gravel King slick

[Mzilliox]

corsa controls are dope

Gravel kings always a good choice

Im pretty tempted by the Schwalbe offerings as mentioned above, and will be trying one of them next for the all road, rain bike thing.

[mass_biker]

Loving this tire - currently rocking the 28c and recently got the 32c to try.

[Burning Pines]

I like gravel kings but the tread is thin and I’ve gotten a lot of slices/punctures on various versions. Best if you can run them tubeless.

[avalonracing]

I used to run Gatorskins in the winter, they were tough but they really do ride like bricks. I didn't realize it until I stopped using them. So I started riding GP4000 II in the winter and I found that they weren't any less tough, just a lot smoother riding and sticker. I have some 5000s that I'm about to put on. I hope they are as flat-resistant.

[Veloo]

My Schwalbe Kojaks have not let me down.

[AngryScientist]

Got a pair of the vittoria corsa controls on order.

new chain and bar tape ready to go also.

pulling it all apart this week, cleaning everything and rebuilding.

looks like plenty more wet season ahead!

[slambers3]

So after ripping a hole in the sidewall of a corsa control last spring, I cut through the tire with scissors to see if there was anything hiding under the tread. Nope. I’m not sure if there’s some special sauce in the casing or rubber compound, but my conclusion regarding the primary difference between the control and the standard corsa is that the tread is different. Vittoria’s page doesn’t seem to mention any additional puncture protection on the control, just added grip. Maybe I’m missing something?

I’ve been running gravelking 26mm tires as my all-weather tires- they’ve been solid over the 5000mi I’ve put on 3 different pairs, but definitely not the most cut-resistant tire on the market. In my experience durability is comparable to corsa controls, they’re just cheaper.

[DeBike]

I am quite fond of Hutchinson Fusion 5 all-weather clinchers. Nice ride, good mileage and reasonable price.

[robertbb]

For people on the corsa controls, how big do the 25mm version inflate to on a 17mm internal rim (e.g. Zonda) at 80PSI?

[Davist]

Continental 4 seasons, on my second winter with them, about 2k miles no sign of wear at all. BTD has sales occasionally, these were about $40. Interestingly, I use 32c, which inflate to about 34, same as my gp4ksii in 28..

[Bob Ross]

I spent 11 years riding 23C Specialized Armadillo Elites on my rain bike, so pretty much anything is an improvement feel-wise

...but not flat-avoidance-wise. I'm only compromising nowadays because I got a different rainbike as of 2018 and it needs to be more gravel-friendly when it's not raining. I'm on 32C Panaracer GravelKings now.

[R3awak3n]

Got a pair of the vittoria corsa controls on order.

new chain and bar tape ready to go also.

pulling it all apart this week, cleaning everything and rebuilding.

looks like plenty more wet season ahead!

I just ordered some as well for my rain bike. Forgot they got a 30mm now and tubeless too. I have a control as my rear on my road bike and its been fantastic, very durable. Front is a corsa because the rear corsa got a cut during a rainy ride lol so I put a control on it and so far no punctures.

[merckx]

I classify rain tires into three categories.

Winter when stopping to repair a puncture could land you in a Jack London story---Conti Hardshell Gators

Summer when riding solo and stopping for a puncture is a mere annoyance---Conti GP4S

Summer when competing, or riding an event---whatever race tire I am currently using

[fignon's barber]

For people on the corsa controls, how big do the 25mm version inflate to on a 17mm internal rim (e.g. Zonda) at 80PSI?


On my Shamal C17, they measure 27mm.

[fignon's barber]

Got a pair of the vittoria corsa controls on order.

new chain and bar tape ready to go also.



Hah! PBK sale? I just stocked up on the same three items.

[chiasticon]

Continental 4 seasons, on my second winter with them, about 2k miles no sign of wear at all. BTD has sales occasionally, these were about $40.yeah I think I've done about 8 winters on Conti four seasons. conversation here had me considering the Corsa Controls next but even on Amazon they're $12 more a tire. so nope.

four seasons have been solid for me. good mixture between the speed of 4000s and puncture resistance of gatorskins. yeah they're not exactly a "supple" ride but they're not bricks either. I try to check them every time I clean the bike (which is at a least a couple times a week in the winter) and it's not uncommon to find many tiny little holes and slits. also not uncommon to find little shards embedded in these holes that have not found their way into the tube. I have to use a small pick to pry these shards out.

yes, I've flatted on them. probably once or twice a winter. but that's a reasonable amount I'd say.

[efixler]

The GravelKings definitely ride really nice, but they aren't amazing at cut protection as several of you have noted.

For flat prevention, I've had really good luck with Rubino Pros and Fortezza Senso Xtremes.

[charliedid]

Gravel King vs Gravel King Plus

Anybody try both?

Thoughts....

They'd go on a commuter/touring bike so would lean to the plus. We sell reg at the shop and they seem plenty durable.

[weisan]

I have gravelking 28 on my rain bike.

I think for the most part, the usual suspects (GK, Corsa, Schwalbe etc), they are about equal, the rest of it is luck, driver dependent, and obstacle avoidance.

Tradeoffs and compromises.

[merckx]

The Corsa Control does not offer additional puncture resistance over a bog-standard Corsa. Purchase them for the romance, and not for the protection.

[Hilltopperny]

Gravel King vs Gravel King Plus



Anybody try both?



Thoughts....



They'd go on a commuter/touring bike so would lean to the plus. We sell reg at the shop and they seem plenty durable.



I have never really run in to any issues on gravel kings. Used a bunch of different sizes over multiple bikes and terrain and they always performed great without punctures or flats, but I do ride in rural New York. The roads themselves are not the smoothest surfaces, but they are relatively clear of puncture causing debris.


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[Tim Porter]

The Corsa Control does not offer additional puncture resistance over a bog-standard Corsa. Purchase them for the romance, and not for the protection.

Putting aside romance, I'm not sure whether this is correct or not; Vittoria certainly claims the additional tread depth adds up to more puncture protection in the Corsa Control, and even add a little BENT NAIL ICON on its website to support this claim for this model. The bog-standard Corsa gets no such icon. :eek:

[azrider]

Gravel King vs Gravel King Plus

Anybody try both?

Thoughts....

They'd go on a commuter/touring bike so would lean to the plus. We sell reg at the shop and they seem plenty durable.

Say whaaaa??? When were GK plus tires released? Never heard of em till now.

I'm still in LOVE with my GK slicks. Great on everything, low rolling resistance, durable (so far) and great in rain. But any added durability at minimal weight penalty sounds great to me

http://i.imgur.com/kJTDjmoh.jpg (https://imgur.com/kJTDjmo)

[R3awak3n]

The Corsa Control does not offer additional puncture resistance over a bog-standard Corsa. Purchase them for the romance, and not for the protection.

I can only talk about experience and I think flats is about luck and where you ride and weather, ect but the crontrol has been more durable than the corsa. There is no cuts on the tire what so ever while on the corsa by now the whole tire would be cut up. Again, this could be lucky but seems to be what I habe been experiencing.

[Kirk007]

Panaracer Race D Evo. Any tire with good grip and a tube that has been doped with sealant or a good longwearing tubeless like IRC roadlite. Honestly using sealant in tubes and tubeless I've been winter flat free in the Pac NW for a few years now.

I may have to give Vittoria another try given that so many people rave about them. My esperience was different. I bought a pair of 27mm corsa g when they first came out - never had a tire that liked to wash out so quickly in the rear if it hit something slick like a metal pothole cover. They've been relegated to indoor trainer tires where they function admirably.

[muz]

Conti 4000Sii 28mm, or 5000TL 32mm. Why switch for the rain bike?

[robertbb]

On my Shamal C17, they measure 27mm.

Awesome, thank you for the info! 25mm on order.

(By way of comparison, my Veloflex Corsa 28's measure 26.5 on Zonda C17's. this whole tyre size thing is a crapshoot!)

[merckx]

Putting aside romance, I'm not sure whether this is correct or not; Vittoria certainly claims the additional tread depth adds up to more puncture protection in the Corsa Control, and even add a little BENT NAIL ICON on its website to support this claim for this model. The bog-standard Corsa gets no such icon. :eek:

The data is on Bicycle Rolling Resistance.

Total Tire thickness including tread (ctr):
Control---2.7mm
Corsa---2.6mm

Sidewall thickness:
Control---0.9
Corsa---0.9

The only difference between these two tires is the tread pattern treatment.

[AngryScientist]

Awesome, thank you for the info! 25mm on order.

(By way of comparison, my Veloflex Corsa 28's measure 26.5 on Zonda C17's. this whole tyre size thing is a crapshoot!)

yea, and don't forget height, which is the limiting factor on some road frames too.

i should have mine in hand tomorrow and i'll also measure.

[fignon's barber]

The Corsa Control does not offer additional puncture resistance over a bog-standard Corsa. Purchase them for the romance, and not for the protection.


Independent highly reputable controlled lab test: different compound, thicker tire, better grip, slightly more rr:

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/vittoria-corsa-control-2018

[Davist]

Conti 4000Sii 28mm, or 5000TL 32mm. Why switch for the rain bike?

I think the 4 seasons have sidewall to sidewall protection and the 4k/5k just have it under the tread...

[muz]

I think the 4 seasons have sidewall to sidewall protection and the 4k/5k just have it under the tread...

I see, worried about getting a sidewall cut as you are crashing in the rain? :banana:

Seriously, I found the 4 seasons to be harsh and no better traction in the wet.

[charliedid]

I have never really run in to any issues on gravel kings. Used a bunch of different sizes over multiple bikes and terrain and they always performed great without punctures or flats, but I do ride in rural New York. The roads themselves are not the smoothest surfaces, but they are relatively clear of puncture causing debris.


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[QUOTE=azrider;2640951]Say whaaaa??? When were GK plus tires released? Never heard of em till now.

I'm still in LOVE with my GK slicks. Great on everything, low rolling resistance, durable (so far) and great in rain. But any added durability at minimal weight penalty sounds great to me


Thanks for that you two. And yes I just ran across the Plus version myself.

If the reg version is as durable as it seems then I might just try a pair. I've been riding Conti Top Contact 2 in a 700x38 and they are amazing tires. 10k miles zero flats and the have lots of life in them. Crazy really.

If I could get a bit better road feel i'd try the GK and see how it goes. I just wonder if the casing on the plus is too similar to the Conti. That said, no flats on a commuter/touring bike is a great thing. Those Conti's really shine.

[robertbb]

I wonder if we're talking about the same generation of Corsa / Corsa Control.

There's differences between the 1.0 and 2.0

[R3awak3n]

I wonder if we're talking about the same generation of Corsa / Corsa Control.

There's differences between the 1.0 and 2.0

I was talking about v1.

[Davist]

I see, worried about getting a sidewall cut as you are crashing in the rain? :banana:

Seriously, I found the 4 seasons to be harsh and no better traction in the wet.

I'll take that as sarcasm, I was answering your question. I've used the 4 seasons for light "gravel" rides like the hell of Hunterdon and Fool's Classic around here. I got a deal on them through BTD so no worries to me, they last and last as others have said (the 4k/5ks are less durable in my experience but like you, I prefer the ride). have a great day

[Mark McM]

Independent highly reputable controlled lab test: different compound, thicker tire, better grip, slightly more rr:

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/vittoria-corsa-control-2018

The reference test assesses rolling resistance and puncture resistance, but it says nothing about traction (grip). Bicycle tire traction test data is almost non-existant, due to its difficulty to measure. Most rider perceptions of grip are just that - perceptions.

[charliedid]

The reference test assesses rolling resistance and puncture resistance, but it says nothing about traction (grip). Bicycle tire traction test data is almost non-existant, due to its difficulty to measure. Most rider perceptions of grip are just that - perceptions.



True

He does at least anecdotally address grip when reviewing tires.


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[AngryScientist]

New tires in.

Vittoria needs to get with the program on tire pressure though. I'll likely always be running these under 100psi, and man - i cant imagine running 25c tires at 145 psi!

[fignon's barber]

The reference test assesses rolling resistance and puncture resistance, but it says nothing about traction (grip). Bicycle tire traction test data is almost non-existant, due to its difficulty to measure. Most rider perceptions of grip are just that - perceptions.


Reputable independent tester: " I feel it's safe to conclude that the Corsa Control uses a compound optimized more towards grip than speed."

[robertbb]

New tires in.

Vittoria needs to get with the program on tire pressure though. I'll likely always be running these under 100psi, and man - i cant imagine running 25c tires at 145 psi!

oooh, very pretty! Measurements when you get a chance :)

[fignon's barber]

Vittoria needs to get with the program on tire pressure though. I'll likely always be running these under 100psi, and man - i cant imagine running 25c tires at 145 psi!


I found the Corsa G+'s sidewall to be so soft that the tires feel soft and squishy even at pressures higher than I normally use.

[m_sasso]

New tires in.

Vittoria needs to get with the program on tire pressure though. I'll likely always be running these under 100psi, and man - i cant imagine running 25c tires at 145 psi!

Been away from the intended purpose of competition tires for too long? Ask some club racers, that are actually competing on the tire what level of pressure they are using, easily 100psi+. The tire is listed and sold as a Competition Road Race Tire.

[azrider]

Been away from the intended purpose of competition tires for too long? Ask some club racers, that are actually competing on the tire what level of pressure they are using, easily 100psi+. The tire is listed and sold as a Competition Road Race Tire.

https://media.giphy.com/media/11h1SO9g5gegyk/giphy.gif

[AngryScientist]

Been away from the intended purpose of competition tires for too long? Ask some club racers, that are actually competing on the tire what level of pressure they are using, easily 100psi+. The tire is listed and sold as a Competition Road Race Tire.

marc - are you implying that competitive road racers should run their tires at higher pressure than recreational cyclists?

on real roads (as opposed to more perfect surfaces like a velodrome...) i'm pretty sure that these or any tires dont get any faster the higher you pump them up, the ride just gets harsher.

for a 25c race tire, i think a more realistic range might be 85-125 PSI.

i'm interested in your thoughts on this.

[Mark McM]

Been away from the intended purpose of competition tires for too long? Ask some club racers, that are actually competing on the tire what level of pressure they are using, easily 100psi+. The tire is listed and sold as a Competition Road Race Tire.

I wouldn't be surprised if many club racers are (still) using 100+ psi. But that doesn't mean that's what's best. When I started racing, a lot of racers thought that 20mm (or narrower) tires had the lowest rolling resistance. But now we know that is not true. It used to be believed that higher pressures also lowered rolling resistance, but we now know that this is not necessarily true, either.

Josh Poertner (at Silca) works with many pro racing teams at determining the best pressure to use for different events, and it is rarely 100+ psi. He bases pressure selection on rolling resistance and pinch flat protection on various surfaces. There was an earlier thread on the forum about the Silca Tire Pressure Recommendation app, so you might want to look that up. The recommended pressures are based on Poertner's work with pro race teams.

[merckx]

New tires in.

Vittoria needs to get with the program on tire pressure though. I'll likely always be running these under 100psi, and man - i cant imagine running 25c tires at 145 psi!

This weekend looks like a good opportunity to run them through a few puddles. Give us a report on Monday.

[m_sasso]

marc - are you implying that competitive road racers should run their tires at higher pressure than recreational cyclists?

on real roads (as opposed to more perfect surfaces like a velodrome...) i'm pretty sure that these or any tires dont get any faster the higher you pump them up, the ride just gets harsher.

for a 25c race tire, i think a more realistic range might be 85-125 PSI.

i'm interested in your thoughts on this.

1.) Yes, however not at the expense of grip and impedance losses , always dependent on the event type and surface conditions.

2.) My researched data shows differences above 85 PSI, however not much above 125 PSI, your realistic range is mostly correct for a median weight individual.

A couple of statements taken from another great compilation of info: Tire Pressure and Rolling Resistance

https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Tire_Pressure_and_Rolling_Resistance_7406.html

"The take-home is that – if you want to be accurate – you can’t say that “low tire pressure makes you go faster because it reduces rolling resistance." That’s an incorrect statement that I’ve probably made myself. High pressure actually reduces rolling resistance, but increases the chance of a heavy impedance cost. Tom Anhalt put it best in a recent e-mail, "On rigid bikes the idea is to be able to run low enough pressures so that the tires can be the majority of the suspension for the given conditions.”

Even road racers, as apposed to track rats, are mostly concerned with going fast, not necessary in comfort. If all they were doing every uneven pedal stroke was bounce the suspension and compress a wave of tire carcass, they won't be competitive for long.

[AngryScientist]

Thanks Marc. I think we are on the same thought page on this one.

[DrewK]

I’m late to the party here... but Josh Poertner’s podcast on this very topic is pretty eye opening. I haven’t tried his app but will check that out.

I can’t remember which episode specifically.... but the point was, that as one strays from “ideal” tire pressure, there is significantly more penalty for being too high. At too high pressure, the energy lost from bouncing the entire rider/bike combo around, is much greater than energy gained by not compressing the tire belt.

There was also quite a bit of interesting conversation about picking tires based on certain mold serial numbers... it got into the weeds pretty quickly.

https://marginalgainspodcast.cc/podcasts/

FWIW... I run Spesh S-Works 28’s... tubeless... 80 psi rear, 75 psi front. Magic. Carpets.

[AngryScientist]

Tires feel very nice in hand. mounted up very easily.

measuring 27mm wide and about 23mm tall (from the edge of the rim) on TB14 rims @ 90psi.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LTp0_TOUN0M/XheTQxp_mkI/AAAAAAAADcE/5c9hoSWniI47Fg-jrKoIbSlefQMYNlV3QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_2513.jpeg

[Themountaintop]

I've had good luck with 28c Schwalbe Pro's tubeless (First generation) running around 80 psi in wet weather.

[AngryScientist]

shake down ride on these.

excellent all-weather tire IMO.

ran them through a bit of everything, but mostly wet pavement, and some light dirt.

i will say, they dont feel as fast as the regular Corsa, but the grip on wet surfaces is definitely better, and they appear to be pretty durable/tough. i'm a fan.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oUDVvOBPJP8/XhpUs-GqVNI/AAAAAAAADdM/UjtGnD3mOQ4uxJk9ia5_YC674UNRvy0KQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_5037.jpg