OT: Cameras

[MikeD]

So much for the Sony RX-100 being so great as compared to a good cell phone camera https://www.androidauthority.com/compact-camera-vs-smartphone-1068461/

Unless you want a zoom lens or are a professional photographer, why carry an expensive, heavy, bulky, camera when your cell phone camera is just as good?

[jamesdak]

Well......for a few reasons.

My compact Canon weighs the same as my cellphone and is actually smaller in length and width and not very much thicker. So it fits in a pocket (especially bike jersey) better.

And the camera DOES easily outperform my smartphone's camera. I just browsed the article but they clearly didn't even try to use the camera with any real thought.

I got my compact to use on bike rides over my smartphone because I knew in the hands of a competent shooter the compact will always be better. Now if you just want to push a button and don't care about optimum results than by all means just use your smart phone.

[joosttx]

I find a camera easier to hold. I have a iPhone 11 Pro and the quality is excellent but for me not quite as good as my RX1r. However, the argument for carrying a camera is getting weaker and weaker.

I’ll probably be one of the last who do carry a camera though.

[tuscanyswe]

I find a camera easier to hold. I have a iPhone 11 Pro and the quality is excellent but for me not quite as good as my RX1r. However, the argument for carrying a camera is getting weaker and weaker.

I’ll probably be one of the last who do carry a camera though.

We are happy for it as your pics are always super. Would have been surprised if they came of a phone but yeah these days phone cameras are pretty amazing.

[colker]

If you need accuracy shoot fast and catch a moment then a cell phone is terrible.

[nalax]

If your example of image quality is a picture of a guy with a basket over his head, it says it all right there.

[unterhausen]

I’ll probably be one of the last who do carry a camera though.What camera do you carry?

My cellphone is a bit of a pain to take pictures with on a ride, but I am generally happy with the pictures I take. I'm a little concerned I'm going to drop it though.

[pinoymamba]

Digital is old news- it’s all about analog shooting on bike rides #fortheculture /s/

[Tony T]

I still use an old iPhone SE (perfect size for me), so I don't know the newer smartphone cameras, but has the Flash in the new smartphones gotten any better? (in the SE, its more of a light than a flash)

[joosttx]

What camera do you carry?

My cellphone is a bit of a pain to take pictures with on a ride, but I am generally happy with the pictures I take. I'm a little concerned I'm going to drop it though.

I carry a Sony RX1r Mark 2. I did drop my RX1 mark 1 going about15mph on the trail. It broke.

[ScottW]

Unless you want a zoom lens or are a professional photographer, why carry an expensive, heavy, bulky, camera when your cell phone camera is just as good?

Even my lowly Nikon D600 with halfway decent lenses will **** all over anything coming out of the current best cell phone cameras. No professional credentials needed. Cell phones suck for anything in dim light, anything moving (like my kids who can't sit still), and especially the combination of anything moving in less than ideal lighting.
Just like hot rod engines where there's no replacement for displacement, in photography there's no replacement for big glass to grab a ton of photons. Although sensors and software continue to improve, our ability to defy physics remains limited. Software effects in iPhones or whatnot that attempt to replicate the shallow DOF & bokeh of a wide aperture lens still produce laughably bad images with artificial blurring in the wrong places.

Of course, I'm not carrying a few pounds of camera gear while riding my bicycle. The cell phone camera's best quality is that it is with me all the time. I do use it for occasional cycling pics, which for me are landscape photos in daytime lighting, generally not challenging conditions for a camera. I don't use it while moving though... too fiddly to fetch from my jersey pocket, remove from the ziploc bag I use to keep the sweat off it, the hold is awkward while shooting pics, plus I don't want to risk dropping & damaging a device that's fairly expensive to replace and also a lifeline of sorts when out riding alone.

[colker]

A smallish fuji camera is half the price and many times better as a camera than an Iphone.

[merlinmurph]

A lot of times, I find taking a picture with a phone and using the screen to compose the shot is very hard. Give me a viewfinder any day.

[choke]

I’ll probably be one of the last who do carry a camera though.And the last one will be me. I can tell you exactly how many pictures I've taken with a cell phone while riding.....zero.

[pbarry]

A smallish fuji camera is half the price and many times better as a camera than an Iphone.

^^This. Weighs about the same as a full small water bottle. Easily worth the weight in superior images.

[MikeD]

Well, my iPhone 11 Pro seems to take photos as good as or better than my compact cameras. I almost never take a blurry or poor exposure photo. Sure, the camera has a bigger lens and sensor, but the iPhone is backed by the computer built into the phone that makes a difference. The screen is also brighter, larger, better than anything you'll find in most point and shoot cameras too.

[eddief]

it can be point and stupid or make you feel stupid when you try to master the capabilities:

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-zs200-tz200

[Mr. Pink]

So much for the Sony RX-100 being so great as compared to a good cell phone camera https://www.androidauthority.com/compact-camera-vs-smartphone-1068461/

Unless you want a zoom lens or are a professional photographer, why carry an expensive, heavy, bulky, camera when your cell phone camera is just as good?

I hope you're not falling for this and basing your own conclusions on a tiny little image on a computer or tablet screen rather than a decent sized print.

But, yeah, phones are remarkably good today, and will be much better in five years.

I want someone to manufacture a phone case with a sliding window for the lens. That lens ( three lenses now in the IPhone) gets all mucked up from daily use.

[MikeD]

I hope you're not falling for this and basing your own conclusions on a tiny little image on a computer or tablet screen rather than a decent sized print.

But, yeah, phones are remarkably good today, and will be much better in five years.

I want someone to manufacture a phone case with a sliding window for the lens. That lens ( three lenses now in the IPhone) gets all mucked up from daily use.


If you enlarged and printed those photos in the article, the Sony photos would still look worse. Maybe there was something wrong with the camera. Regardless, I was thinking of buying one based on the recommendations of some of you camera "experts" in another thread. Glad I didn't.

[redir]

I remember the first smart phone I got many many years ago. The sales guy was going on and on about how great the camera was and I was like, I'm not buying a camera I am buying a phone. I had a camera! But anyway even though by today's standards that camera was not very good I quickly learned that it's sooooo much easier to jsut pull out a phone and take a snap shot. The phone is with me all the time anyway and it's one less thing to carry around. Every smart phone after that pretty much the first hing I look at is how good the camera is.

Having said that my old Cannon Elf still takes better pics then my modern wonder phone but still I rarely use it.

[Mr. Pink]

I remember the first smart phone I got many many years ago. The sales guy was going on and on about how great the camera was and I was like, I'm not buying a camera I am buying a phone. I had a camera! But anyway even though by today's standards that camera was not very good I quickly learned that it's sooooo much easier to jsut pull out a phone and take a snap shot. The phone is with me all the time anyway and it's one less thing to carry around. Every smart phone after that pretty much the first hing I look at is how good the camera is.

Having said that my old Cannon Elf still takes better pics then my modern wonder phone but still I rarely use it.

I kept my old Samsung when I upgraded my phone to a Pixel 2 a few years ago. I use it as a music player, navigation device, and sometimes extra wifi device. The only thing it doesn't do is make phone calls/text or connect to the web away from wifi. It's as though actual phone calls are just another, well, app, and, I'll bet, the least used function on phones belonging to sub 30 year olds. "Who's calling me? ewwww...I don't want to answer."

[Mr. Pink]

If you enlarged and printed those photos in the article, the Sony photos would still look worse. Maybe there was something wrong with the camera. Regardless, I was thinking of buying one based on the recommendations of some of you camera "experts" in another thread. Glad I didn't.

I don't understand. Have you owned this camera or have seen prints from it? How do you know it's so bad?

[eddief]

I wonder if somehow camera manufacturers are missing the boat by not developing "cameras" that leapfrog the form factor and photo quality of smart phones?

[MikeD]

I don't understand. Have you owned this camera or have seen prints from it? How do you know it's so bad?


It's blatantly obvious by looking at the photos and videos in the article. Did you even read it?

[joosttx]

If you enlarged and printed those photos in the article, the Sony photos would still look worse. Maybe there was something wrong with the camera. Regardless, I was thinking of buying one based on the recommendations of some of you camera "experts" in another thread. Glad I didn't.

I think my photography speaks for itself. Even comparing with the iPhone 11 Pro my camera pictures are superior. I don’t think there is a question.

The portrait mode on the iPhoneis is what I am most impressed with. What I’ll do is take some photos with my Sony RX1 and my iPhone pro for comparison. Perhaps I will include the original R100 too. Stay tuned...


Check my Instagram basically all my cycling photos are taken with a camera while all my other photos (kids) are taken with an iPhone (most recent 11 pro).

[MikeD]

I think my photography speaks for itself. Even comparing with the iPhone 11 Pro my camera pictures are superior. I don’t think there is a question.

The portrait mode on the iPhoneis is what I am most impressed with. What I’ll do is take some photos with my Sony RX1 and my iPhone pro for comparison. Perhaps I will include the original R100 too. Stay tuned...


Why don't you? I have an open mind, unlike some people on this forum.

[joosttx]

Why don't you? I have an open mind, unlike some people on this forum.

I’ll shoot some stuff tomorrow. But in the mean time see if you can tell the difference on my Instagram.

[djg]

If you enlarged and printed those photos in the article, the Sony photos would still look worse. Maybe there was something wrong with the camera. Regardless, I was thinking of buying one based on the recommendations of some of you camera "experts" in another thread. Glad I didn't.

I don’t own a current Sony RX100, although I had the original one for a while and was glad I did (lost on a bike trip, as it happens); I don’t have an iPhone 11 either, although I have a XR and certainly have seen photos from the 11. I don’t see any way to dispute that phones have become much better cameras in recent years, and ad hoc internet advice is what it is. It is possible to take a bad photo with a Sony compact (and with their other cameras for that matter). So there’s that. Still, the test photos in the article you mentioned seem odd and unrepresentative to me, at least as I see them on the screen. And I don’t see the article as proof of anything much besides the possibility of bad results.

That doesn’t mean you should run out and buy any particular camera on my suggestion (I’m not making one) or somebody else’s. But there remain many potential advantages to a real camera and it shouldn’t be hard to find examples of them, from digital images to actual prints. What you want, what you are willing to carry, and what you’re willing to spend are all different questions.

[jamesdak]

It's blatantly obvious by looking at the photos and videos in the article. Did you even read it?

Well, I've only got 35+ years background in photography so the only thing blantantly obvious to me was how bad and false this article was. The author clearly had no clue how to use the camera, or purposely misrepresented it.

I just went down the road myself this past year. I settled on a used Canon G9X that is comparible to this Sony. The Sony is viewed by most experts as the better camera.

If you are serious about wanting a compact camera then you should spend more time doing real research. If you only want validation not to get one then you've found one article that will help you feel good about your decision.

As a photographer I easily admit smartphone camera's are good for what they are. But in no way can they seriously compete with a good compact camera. It all comes down to what's good enough for you.



https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/111104266.jpg

[MikeD]

I’ll shoot some stuff tomorrow. But in the mean time see if you can tell the difference on my Instagram.


I just signed up for Instagram and looked at your photos. Maybe I just don't know how to use Instagram, but the photos are small and blurry when blown up.

How about taking some same photos with your camera and iPhone, and posting to this forum?

[Mr. Pink]

It's blatantly obvious by looking at the photos and videos in the article. Did you even read it?

No, it's not. At best, you're looking at this on a computer screen at a low resolution. Probably a tablet or laptop, which have pretty lame screens, no matter how Apple or Dell tries to convince you otherwise. Or, worse yet, a smartphone screen. I'm looking at them on a professional Eizo 24 inch monitor, pretty much the best you can buy, and, no, you really can't tell the difference. Or, better yet, I withhold judgement until I print it out on My Epson P800 at a fairly large size, which is at least 8.5x11. That's when you notice how deficient smartphone images are, compared to a good camera with good glass. Which is OK. I read recently that something like a trillion pictures are taken every week (?) worldwide, and 99% of them never make it to paper. We live in a new world of photography where Instagram is our new Life magazine, and that's cool, I have a hundred or so images there. It's fun, and many more people see those images than my prints. And, like I said, in maybe five years, the phone will surpass even a cheaper mirrorless camera quality (the sub 1000 dollar range). The achilles heel is the lens quality and crappy software that screws up the image before it gets to a proper post production world. But, hey, it sure is convenient and fun, and, let's face it, the present and definitely the future of photography. If you don't really care too much about quality beyond a computer screen. But, print is dead, anyway.

[scopes]

I've got the RX100 M4 which they reviewed here and am consistently impressed with how well it stands up against my full frame DSLR setup, never-mind my smartphone camera.

It seems to me that the posted review is biased towards smartphones, which that site represents vs something more objective like DXOMARK.

I believe the strength of this camera is not specifically its point and shoot from the hip ability but the control given to the user in such a small package.

[colker]

But, print is dead, anyway.

Hmmmm... i see a lot of large print happening but sure.. it´s a tiny market compared to personal pics of everybody and how it´s viewed.

[Mr. Pink]

I meant magazines, newspapers, and even large books. Nobody goes to galleries.

[colker]

I meant magazines, newspapers, and even large books. Nobody goes to galleries.

Or museums or art fairs or buy photo books but... some do.

[joosttx]

I just signed up for Instagram and looked at your photos. Maybe I just don't know how to use Instagram, but the photos are small and blurry when blown up.

How about taking some same photos with your camera and iPhone, and posting to this forum?

So instagram compresses photos considerably so if it you blow them up they are grainy. But just looking at them in the normal format of Instagram I see much more richness in my camera photos vs phone photos. Everyone has their on vibe. I know I have a heighten visual senses so maybe I see thing sees differently than you. And these depths of tone are more impactful to me.

I agree that in article you cite the phone pics are better. I cannot imagine a smartphone saying anything else.

[nalax]

Or, better yet, I withhold judgement until I print it out on My Epson P800 at a fairly large size, which is at least 8.5x11.
8.5x11 is tiny on a P800! Crank out some 17x25's!

[joosttx]

Here are two photos than yesterday by me and a friend. I am using the RX1r2 my friend is using I believe the iphone 11 pro.

You can see the pro needs a lot of processing to make it pop because it cannot pick up details like the fog going into the ocean. Where my photo subtle details are picked up. I think this is the big difference between camera phones and camera compacted enough for carrying when cycling. Mind you my camera is about the best camera for its size.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49340546418_c738a0ec4d_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49341219607_c8c33cddaa_b.jpg

[Mr. Pink]

8.5x11 is tiny on a P800! Crank out some 17x25's!

Oh, plenty. But, never from the phone. Although small looks good from the phone. Nothing wrong with small for the right image.

[Mr. Pink]

or, you put the roll paper attachment on, and you can print something like this, if 16.5 inches high, almost 5 feet wide.

Edit. Man, the colors look awful. That's what I mean. You have no control how things look on the internet.

[MikeD]

Here are two photos than yesterday by me and a friend. I am using the RX1r2 my friend is using I believe the iphone 11 pro.



You can see the pro needs a lot of processing to make it pop because it cannot pick up details like the fog going into the ocean. Where my photo subtle details are picked up. I think this is the big difference between camera phones and camera compacted enough for carrying when cycling. Mind you my camera is about the best camera for its size.





https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49340546418_c738a0ec4d_b.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49341219607_c8c33cddaa_b.jpg



Both photos look great. I'm assuming your's is the first one and is less fuzzy in the distance. However, the foreground is totally black whereas there's detail in the second photo where there should be less light because the sun has set. That's what I'm seeing, to be honest.

[joosttx]

Both photos look great. I'm assuming your's is the first one and is less fuzzy in the distance. However, the foreground is totally black whereas there's detail in the second photo where there should be less light because the sun has set. That's what I'm seeing, to be honest.

Ok, sounds like a camera phone will fit your needs.

Sun is rising, I’m on the West Coast. The oranger photo was post processed to show the colors.

[nalax]

or, you put the roll paper attachment on, and you can print something like this, if 16.5 inches high, almost 5 feet wide.


Yes! I'm sure the original looks pretty good.

[SoCalSteve]

If you need accuracy shoot fast and catch a moment then a cell phone is terrible.

Zoom too, just sayin...

[colker]

It´s interesting that while the rationale says buy cell phones instead of cameras Fuji´s huge success is largely based on the retro design of their cameras; it´s made to feel like a 70s canonet. Photo cameras are so much fun to play with... why take it away and hold a cell phone instead? It´s not only about the quality of the image.. it´s also about ergonomics and the experience of shooting w/ cameras. Don´t forget to get one w/ a nice viewfinder.

[joosttx]

It´s interesting that while the rationale says buy cell phones instead of cameras Fuji´s huge success is largely based on the retro design of their cameras; it´s made to feel like a 70s canonet. Photo cameras are so much fun to play with... why take it away and hold a cell phone instead? It´s not only about the quality of the image.. it´s also about ergonomics and the experience of shooting w/ cameras. Don´t forget to get one w/ a nice viewfinder.

I don’t know. I’d say it is photo quality and ergonomics for me exclusively.

[AngryScientist]

ergonomics for me ....

i am a hack photographer, and more clumsy than average.

personally, i find it hugely awkward and borderline dangerous to shoot photos one handed while riding with an iPhone. my old fuji compact camera is SO much easier to hold squarely and push the big button while riding. that's a biggie for me.

otherwise, the obvious huge advantage of the phone camera is that i always have it. i have always thought the iPhone cameras were pretty great for the average amateur photog, and they have gotten better and better with successive generations.

it's fantastic, and i do buy apple's latest marketing slogan "its getting harder to take a bad photo". i look forward to what the next decade will bring for compact cell camera advances!

[colker]

I don’t know. I’d say it is photo quality and ergonomics for me exclusively.

Once in a while i shoot w/ a medium format film camera, a rolleiflex.. or a Leica m3. The lens quality and the organic quality of film even w/ it´s "imperfections".. so nice. Medium format black and white shot w/ plannar and tessar lenses. I have yet to buy the 50mm for the M3.
I don´t know the sony model you have but there are a couple which accept old film lenses.. leitz or even old russian sonnar lenses, jupiters. A lot of fun.
I like manual focusing over autofocus. Out of focus by mistake can look great.

[jamesdak]

Once in a while i shoot w/ a medium format film camera, a rolleiflex.. or a Leica m3. The lens quality and the organic quality of film even w/ it´s "imperfections".. so nice. Medium format black and white shot w/ plannar and tessar lenses. I have yet to buy the 50mm for the M3.
I don´t know the sony model you have but there are a couple which accept old film lenses.. leitz or even old russian sonnar lenses, jupiters. A lot of fun.
I like manual focusing over autofocus. Out of focus by mistake can look great.

This is where the EOS mount rocks. I have a ton of wonderful Contax Zeiss, Pentax, Olympus and Leica R manual focus lenses I use on my Canon DSLRs. I've even adapted some Mamiya 645 lenses for this purpose. That shot earlier of the Kestrel was taken with an old Nikon 800/5.6 manual lense used on a Canon 5D body.

This was a test shot with the Mamiya 200/2.8 APO mounted on my 5D

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/106494827.jpg

[MikeD]

It´s interesting that while the rationale says buy cell phones instead of cameras Fuji´s huge success is largely based on the retro design of their cameras; it´s made to feel like a 70s canonet. Photo cameras are so much fun to play with... why take it away and hold a cell phone instead? It´s not only about the quality of the image.. it´s also about ergonomics and the experience of shooting w/ cameras. Don´t forget to get one w/ a nice viewfinder.


Does Fuji make a point and shoot or compact camera with a viewfinder? They've pretty much disappeared. I have an older Canon Power Shot with a viewfinder, but the viewfinder doesn't encompass the whole scene. My phone takes a better photo than it anyway.

I haven't figured out how to carry my camera or cell phone on the bike for easy access, so I put it in a plastic zip lock bag in my jersey pocket. The plastic bag is so sweat stays off the phone or camera or lens. That means I've got to stop and take the photo so I've got no need to take a photo while riding the bike, thus the ergonomics of a phone or small camera are the same, as I see it. I tried a top tube bag but it got annoying when my knees hit it while standing. That probably is the best place to put a camera.

My phone automatically uploads photos to iCloud. I've got to plug my cameras into my computer to upload, and it's a Windows box and I like viewing my photos on my iPad Pro. I rarely use my cameras so I haven't even figured out how to get the photos into iCloud. The only post processing I do with my phone photos is to straighten them out, they look so good.

Photo taken on a very clear day with an iPhone X (edit: re-uploaded the image at medium resolution):

[eddief]

This worked for my EM-10 Mark III with normal lens and works great for smart phone or point and shoot. No zipper to fiddle with means you can leave the top open, reach in, get camera...and holds small other stuff too. Tucks in nicely on rear of drops bars and stays out of the way:

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/Cockpit/MountainFeedbag

Does Fuji make a point and shoot or compact camera with a viewfinder? They've pretty much disappeared. I have an older Canon Power Shot with a viewfinder, but the viewfinder doesn't encompass the whole scene. My phone takes a better photo than it anyway.

I haven't figured out how to carry my camera or cell phone on the bike for easy access, so I put it in a plastic zip lock bag in my jersey pocket. The plastic bag is so sweat stays off the phone or camera or lens. That means I've got to stop and take the photo so I've got no need to take a photo while riding the bike, thus the ergonomics of a phone or small camera are the same, as I see it. I tried a top tube bag but it got annoying when my knees hit it while standing. That probably is the best place to put a camera.

My phone automatically uploads photos to iCloud. I've got to plug my cameras into my computer to upload, and it's a Windows box and I like viewing my photos on my iPad Pro. I rarely use my cameras so I haven't even figured out how to get the photos into iCloud. The only post processing I do with my phone photos is to straighten them out, they look so good.

[colker]

Does Fuji make a point and shoot or compact camera with a viewfinder? They've pretty much disappeared. I have an older Canon Power Shot with a viewfinder, but the viewfinder doesn't encompass the whole scene. My phone takes a better photo than it anyway.

I haven't figured out how to carry my camera or cell phone on the bike for easy access, so I put it in a plastic zip lock bag in my jersey pocket. The plastic bag is so sweat stays off the phone or camera or lens. That means I've got to stop and take the photo so I've got no need to take a photo while riding the bike, thus the ergonomics of a phone or small camera are the same, as I see it. I tried a top tube bag but it got annoying when my knees hit it while standing. That probably is the best place to put a camera.

My phone automatically uploads photos to iCloud. I've got to plug my cameras into my computer to upload, and it's a Windows box and I like viewing my photos on my iPad Pro. I rarely use my cameras so I haven't even figured out how to get the photos into iCloud. The only post processing I do with my phone photos is to straighten them out, they look so good.


The Fuji x100 even has an optical VF meaning you can use it like an old leica but w/ electronic focus: image is viewed through glass... no screen. It´s as trendy as it gets and sells quickly in shops. Not very small though and has a fixed (high quality) lens.
The Xe3 is an awesome camera... small, high tech, great sensor and has an electronic VF besides the rear screen. It changes lenses! It´s a big camera in the body of a charming little one.

[colker]

Photo taken on a very clear day with an iPhone X:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200107/b30878b19c3b7a778325b489ffe4ae28.jpg

The iphone has a small sensor and thus a short focal length so it compresses perspective and does not separate well planes and perspectives. Look at the branch right off the tree: a camera w/ a bigger sensor will make it stand much better against the background. This is not a small nitpick.. it´s a huge consequence of small sensors.

[colker]

I have used cellphones and mini sensor camera on personal pics where i wanted the flattered perspective without depth or tonal gradation. It wasn´t intentional: i was too lazy to pick the dslr and shot w/ the phone. I made the limitations work somehow when post processing.. but i much rather have a bigger sensor. The game on digital photography is about sensors: size and architecture determine the look of the pictures just like film type and size determined a look in the past. The bigger the sensor the better the picture. Older sensors which had lesser low light capabilities otoh give a desirable color rendition w/ richer primary colors. It´s about the sensor.

[colker]

Done w/an old motorola phone. I used the poor gradation and detail as a punch. Done w/ a bigger camera may have looked worse: i want the color blocks and geometry to stand not detail.

[colker]

Same motorola. Same light.

[charliedid]

[QUOTE=MikeD;2640866]Does Fuji make a point and shoot or compact camera with a viewfinder? They've pretty much disappeared. I have an older Canon Power Shot with a viewfinder, but the viewfinder doesn't encompass the whole scene. My phone takes a better photo than it anyway.

I haven't figured out how to carry my camera or cell phone on the bike for easy access, so I put it in a plastic zip lock bag in my jersey pocket. The plastic bag is so sweat stays off the phone or camera or lens. That means I've got to stop and take the photo so I've got no need to take a photo while riding the bike, thus the ergonomics of a phone or small camera are the same, as I see it. I tried a top tube bag but it got annoying when my knees hit it while standing. That probably is the best place to put a camera.

My phone automatically uploads photos to iCloud. I've got to plug my cameras into my computer to upload, and it's a Windows box and I like viewing my photos on my iPad Pro. I rarely use my cameras so I haven't even figured out how to get the photos into iCloud. The only post processing I do with my phone photos is to straighten them out, they look so good.

Photo taken on a very clear day with an iPhone X:


Posting this image at this size doesn't bolster your case much. It's a stretch for many cameras to be fair. At this size and resolution it shows the shortcomings in broad daylight. You'd need a large format camera (FF or MF at least) and a tripod to do this.

Now repost this at 1000 px wide :)

[MikeD]

[QUOTE=MikeD;2640866]Does Fuji make a point and shoot or compact camera with a viewfinder? They've pretty much disappeared. I have an older Canon Power Shot with a viewfinder, but the viewfinder doesn't encompass the whole scene. My phone takes a better photo than it anyway.

I haven't figured out how to carry my camera or cell phone on the bike for easy access, so I put it in a plastic zip lock bag in my jersey pocket. The plastic bag is so sweat stays off the phone or camera or lens. That means I've got to stop and take the photo so I've got no need to take a photo while riding the bike, thus the ergonomics of a phone or small camera are the same, as I see it. I tried a top tube bag but it got annoying when my knees hit it while standing. That probably is the best place to put a camera.

My phone automatically uploads photos to iCloud. I've got to plug my cameras into my computer to upload, and it's a Windows box and I like viewing my photos on my iPad Pro. I rarely use my cameras so I haven't even figured out how to get the photos into iCloud. The only post processing I do with my phone photos is to straighten them out, they look so good.

Photo taken on a very clear day with an iPhone X:


Posting this image at this size doesn't bolster your case much. It's a stretch for many cameras to be fair. At this size and resolution it shows the shortcomings in broad daylight. You'd need a large format camera (FF or MF at least) and a tripod to do this.

Now repost this at 1000 px wide :)


I see I'm swimming against the tide here, so I'm out of this thread. Have fun guys.

[joosttx]

Regarding carrying a camera on a bike. I carried my rx100 in my jersey pocket for many years without issue. I did try and keep the lens pointed away from my body. If it rained I would keep it in a ziplock bag. I do the same for my phone. For my RX1r I carry it in an oveja negra chuckbucket for easy access.

[brownhound]

Different question but good location to pose question:

I'm taking safari next year. I'm not much of a photographer, frankly, with only a 15 year old DSLR and older iPhone 7.

Should I (a) invest in new iPhone 11 OR (b) invest in mid-level digital camera (say $500)? I'm leaning towards iPhone because of weight, space, and I know I'll eventually need a phone. But does anyone want to make case for new camera?

[AngryScientist]

Different question but good location to pose question:

I'm taking safari next year. I'm not much of a photographer, frankly, with only a 15 year old DSLR and older iPhone 7.

Should I (a) invest in new iPhone 11 OR (b) invest in mid-level digital camera (say $500)? I'm leaning towards iPhone because of weight, space, and I know I'll eventually need a phone. But does anyone want to make case for new camera?

just the very nature of a safari would mean, at least to me that good zooming would be a must-have. iPhone is great for landscapes and subjects that are right in front of you, but not good at all for an animal or something that is a hundred yards off. i would think you'll want a real camera with a huge zoom lens.

[mhespenheide]

[QUOTE=charliedid;2640890]


I see I'm swimming against the tide here, so I'm out of this thread. Have fun guys.

In fairness, whatever back-end software is hosting this image isn't doing you any favors -- when I downloaded the image, it looked better than this display did.

Your points about convenience are fair, and you're the only person who can judge whether an iPhone or other phone camera is good enough for you. If it is, go for it. Have fun!

Let us know if you come back to the thread, though; if you do, I'll post some counter-examples of images shot from a full-frame camera and we can try to compare. But right now, it sounds like you've already come to a conclusion. Did you check out Houston's comparison upthread? If the difference in tonal range between the two images doesn't matter to you, that's a fair judgement on your part. But to my eye, there's a clear difference between the two images.

[mhespenheide]

Different question but good location to pose question:

I'm taking safari next year. I'm not much of a photographer, frankly, with only a 15 year old DSLR and older iPhone 7.

Should I (a) invest in new iPhone 11 OR (b) invest in mid-level digital camera (say $500)? I'm leaning towards iPhone because of weight, space, and I know I'll eventually need a phone. But does anyone want to make case for new camera?

Safari?

Yeah, if you want to take photographs, you're almost certainly going to want an ILC and a 300mm lens minimum. Or 400mm. Or 800mm. Otherwise some of the larger animals are going to be tiny on your image.

But, if you're asking that question, you might just want to go for the experience and immerse yourself in looking with your naked eyes and a good pair of binoculars. Then ask some of the photographers on the trip if you can buy a print or two, or a collection of screen images. Wildlife photography is a pretty specialized niche and requires pricey gear and practice.

[colker]

Safari?

Yeah, if you want to take photographs, you're almost certainly going to want an ILC and a 300mm lens minimum. Or 400mm. Or 800mm. Otherwise some of the larger animals are going to be tiny on your image.

But, if you're asking that question, you might just want to go for the experience and immerse yourself in looking with your naked eyes and a good pair of binoculars. Then ask some of the photographers on the trip if you can buy a print or two, or a collection of screen images. Wildlife photography is a pretty specialized niche and requires pricey gear and practice.

Excellent advice.

[jamesdak]

[QUOTE=charliedid;2640890]


I see I'm swimming against the tide here, so I'm out of this thread. Have fun guys.


It's not personnel but if you can't see anything wrong with the picture you posted then it's cool. The cellphone will serve you well and save you money, win, win!

[joosttx]

Here you go MikeD or anyone. Which post do you like: iphone 11 pro vs Sony RX1r mark 2. Guess which set was taken by the phone and which was taken by the camera.


#1

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49346692213_5c7f70d5d8_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49346740728_0132bc070a_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49347155371_425b686da9_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49346744618_9825f63312_c.jpg

#2

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49347431932_83352cc729_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49347501732_56a3a2f6bb_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49347271841_e0fe6ef3ee_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49347294721_5a267fab6a_c.jpg

[MikeD]

Here you go MikeD or anyone. Which post do you like: iphone 11 pro vs Sony RX1r mark 2. Guess which set was taken by the phone and which was taken by the camera.



Due to the sharpness of the beetles, I'd say your camera is #2, but the sky and mountain are somewhat washed out in #1 so maybe the iPhone is #2. I like the #2 set better, but they are both close, when viewed on my iPad Pro. Which is it?

[joosttx]

Due to the sharpness of the beetles, I'd say your camera is #2, but the sky and mountain are somewhat washed out in #1 so maybe the iPhone is #2. I like the #2 set better, but they are both close, when viewed on my iPad Pro. Which is it?

Camera is 2. They are close but for I truly appreciate the difference. Plus with the ergonomics of a camera I prefer it over the iphones ease. It’s very hazy today so that is the washed out look which actually is pretty accurate.

[ergott]

Here are some low light shots with the Pixel 3. I simply can't believe how much detail is preserved. I shoot 6D and fast glass when I can, but this easily outresolves cropped sensor SLRs like the original 7D I used to have. Original fize size links below each shot. Not giving up on my SLR system, but I always try and find the best camera in a phone I can find when shopping for new phone.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Assorted-Landscapes/i-Jg6f4tS/0/549ddf2c/X2/IMG_20190828_111759-X2.jpg

Original Uncompressed (https://photos.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Assorted-Landscapes/i-Jg6f4tS/0/549ddf2c/O/IMG_20190828_111759.jpg)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Assorted-Landscapes/i-9WWFnND/0/55f187d9/X2/IMG_20190828_111922-X2.jpg

Original Uncompressed (https://photos.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Assorted-Landscapes/i-9WWFnND/0/55f187d9/O/IMG_20190828_111922.jpg)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Assorted-Landscapes/i-zsHDG9j/0/171b7b8c/X2/IMG_20190828_112910-X2.jpg

Original Uncompressed (https://photos.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Assorted-Landscapes/i-zsHDG9j/0/171b7b8c/O/IMG_20190828_112910.jpg)

[ergott]

personally, i find it hugely awkward and borderline dangerous to shoot photos one handed while riding with an iPhone. my old fuji compact camera is SO much easier to hold squarely and push the big button while riding. that's a biggie for me.

Not sure about iPhones, but I know for Android I can assign the volume button to take pics. That means I have a sure grasp on the camera and I can usually spray and pray while riding pretty well.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Cycling-shots/i-H9HpZX2/0/9e1b018a/XL/IMG_20190817_062002-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Cycling-shots/i-qQmpCwd/0/01b2ffa8/XL/IMG_20190817_072139-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Cycling-shots/i-xk7tpDr/0/17e987de/XL/IMG_20190825_124438-XL.jpg

[ergott]

and no, there's no replacement for sensor size.

Camera Canon EOS 6D
Lens Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
Focal Length 90.0 mm (90.0 mm in 35mm)
Aperture f/2.8
Exposure Time (1/100)
ISO 800
Pixel peeper size (https://photos.smugmug.com/Vacation/Governors-Island/i-GgWKQqW/0/edd5b112/5K/GovernorsIsland-22-5K.jpg)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Vacation/Governors-Island/i-GgWKQqW/0/edd5b112/X2/GovernorsIsland-22-X2.jpg

[charliedid]

[QUOTE=joosttx;2641015]Here you go MikeD or anyone. Which post do you like: iphone 11 pro vs Sony RX1r mark 2. Guess which set was taken by the phone and which was taken by the camera.


I'd guess the first set is your phone and the second set your Sony. My point is as you know that posting 1000 px or less on a computer or tablet etc. is fine but posting an original is easy to see the difference.

I hope Mike D didn't take my post as a criticism as it was really just an observation.

[MikeD]

Computational photography. Google it. That's what good smart phone cameras have and what standalone cameras don't. That's what makes these newer smartphones take such good photos and what is being illustrated in the article posted in the first message to this thread. That's what I want in a point and shoot/compact camera, but it's not currently available.

Here's an article on computational photography written in layman's terms https://vas3k.com/blog/computational_photography/

[SoCalSteve]

Different question but good location to pose question:

I'm taking safari next year. I'm not much of a photographer, frankly, with only a 15 year old DSLR and older iPhone 7.

Should I (a) invest in new iPhone 11 OR (b) invest in mid-level digital camera (say $500)? I'm leaning towards iPhone because of weight, space, and I know I'll eventually need a phone. But does anyone want to make case for new camera?

I went on a safari in South Africa a few years back. I am not a great photographer. I purchased a Canon 5D mkIII and a 100-400 Canon L lens. Not a cheap venture, but please take a look at the photographs I took with this combination.

www.stevebrillpix.com look under tab: safari

Please view using a real computer screen , not an iPad or phone. None of these photos were touched up, straight jpeg out of the camera.

Not saying you need this expensive of a set up, but an iPhone is not going to cut it. At least a 300 zoom, if not longer is required.

Enjoy! It was an amazing experience!!!

[bikinchris]

Different question but good location to pose question:

I'm taking safari next year. I'm not much of a photographer, frankly, with only a 15 year old DSLR and older iPhone 7.

Should I (a) invest in new iPhone 11 OR (b) invest in mid-level digital camera (say $500)? I'm leaning towards iPhone because of weight, space, and I know I'll eventually need a phone. But does anyone want to make case for new camera?

Use your phone for landscapes, panoramas and sunsets because it sucks for anything else.
Camera phones are the absolute worst thing for taking photos of anything that moves. My g.d. phone won't even take a still photo anymore. The shutter speed is just too slow. What's worse is that the terrible image quality will get much worse when you try to zoom into the image. All you are doing is taking away pixels from the edge of the image. There is no lens zoom on these cameras.

If you want a camera for a safari but don't want to lug around a DSLR and a bag of big lenses, get a Nikon P900. Yes it breaks your budget, but it will be worth it. The P1000 has an even more impressive lens.

[bikinchris]

Computational photography. Google it. That's what good smart phone cameras have and what standalone cameras don't. That's what makes these newer smartphones take such good photos and what is being illustrated in the article posted in the first message to this thread. That's what I want in a point and shoot/compact camera, but it's not currently available.

Computational photography does help in quickly processing images such as high dynamic range and panoramas.
But if you really compare it to a professionally done panorama or HDR image, the phone image really sucks. The reason is the the tiny little camera sensor gives mushy images. I know I am being OCD about the images and frankly, for most people, as long as the colors are bright, they LOVE the images.

[tuxbailey]

Use your phone for landscapes, panoramas and sunsets because it sucks for anything else.
Camera phones are the absolute worst thing for taking photos of anything that moves. My g.d. phone won't even take a still photo anymore. The shutter speed is just too slow. What's worse is that the terrible image quality will get much worse when you try to zoom into the image. All you are doing is taking away pixels from the edge of the image. There is no lens zoom on these cameras.

If you want a camera for a safari but don't want to lug around a DSLR and a bag of big lenses, get a Nikon P900. Yes it breaks your budget, but it will be worth it. The P1000 has an even more impressive lens.

I echo this point. I feel that the latest phone cameras do a very good job for static shots, it just can't do a good job for action shots. The day when a phone camera can do 10 fps with tack sharp results is when I am going to give up my DSLR.

The camera phone is definitely good enough for most everyday shots and the old saying is correct that the best camera is always the camera you have when you need one.

[vincenz]

Phone cameras combined with software are extremely good these days so for the average user, it doesn’t make sense to get the cheaper compact point and shoot cameras anymore. I would not advise anyone to buy a point and shoot style cam these days unless there is a special use case for it.

That being said, there is still a difference in the look of an image taken with bigger sensors, as you can’t fight physics. If you are willing to spend around $1000, you will be able to take appreciably better photos than any phone can. If you can’t notice any difference or don’t care about any difference, then just stick with a phone.

Smartphone cams are like Sora and Tiagra. If you care to notice any difference, get a camera at least at the Ultegra level. (sorry, had to)

[colker]

Phone cameras combined with software are extremely good these days so for the average user, it doesn’t make sense to get the cheaper compact point and shoot cameras anymore. I would not advise anyone to buy a point and shoot style cam these days unless there is a special use case for it.

That being said, there is still a difference in the look of an image taken with bigger sensors, as you can’t fight physics. If you are willing to spend around $1000, you will be able to take appreciably better photos than any phone can. If you can’t notice any difference or don’t care about any difference, then just stick with a phone.

Smartphone cams are like Sora and Tiagra. If you care to notice any difference, get a camera at least at the Ultegra level. (sorry, had to)

At less than 1k you are already playing w/ a wonderfull sensor and very good lenses on a small package miles better than any cell phone. Deals can be had close to $700.

[vincenz]

At less than 1k you are already playing w/ a wonderfull sensor and very good lenses on a small package miles better than any cell phone. Deals can be had close to $700.



Yeh I agree, now discussing between 105 and Ultegra [emoji1]

[nalax]

Yeh I agree, now discussing between 105 and Ultegra [emoji1]

But can you take it off road?

[vincenz]

But can you take it off road?


I’m more of a Campy guy..

[happycampyer]

But can you take it off road?
It has a full-frame sensor and interchangeable Zeiss lenses, but will it fit into a jersey pocket?

[morrisericd]

I have a Sony 6400 with some nice, long range glass that I use for sports shooting mostly. It's a great setup and takes terrific pictures. Unfortunately, even with smaller lenses, it's a little too big to stash in my pocket. I looked into getting a Sony rx100 for an upcoming ski trip, but ultimately decided to upgrade my iPhone to the 11 pro which is supposed to have a killer camera.

Did I make the right decision? Still not sure. There's really something to be said for the "always in your pocket" aspect of phone cameras. And - it does take nice pictures. However - especially for long range shooting and sports - I just don't see how the phone can compare.

[zambenini]

At the recommendation of a friend, and considering the use, (pics of family outings, slipping into a handlebar bag or daypack for outdoor adventures), I think the Sony RX100 family is right for me.

I was outbid yesterday by $10 on a RX-100-III on ebay (It went for $304). That's about my budget - can RX-100 users chime in on the model family and/or features I should look out for there?

Thanks,
John

[eddief]

maybe not as good glass but will you know the difference?

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-zs200-tz200

or maybe more in your price range is the zs100. earlier model, same camera, a little less zoom:

https://www.amazon.com/PANASONIC-Megapixel-VARIO-ELMARIT-Stabilization-DMC-ZS100K/dp/B010NU5AX8

At the recommendation of a friend, and considering the use, (pics of family outings, slipping into a handlebar bag or daypack for outdoor adventures), I think the Sony RX100 family is right for me.

I was outbid yesterday by $10 on a RX-100-III on ebay (It went for $304). That's about my budget - can RX-100 users chime in on the model family and/or features I should look out for there?

Thanks,
John

[XXtwindad]

This is a good example of why off-topic threads can be really informative. I'm a complete novice to photography, but I'd love to get more into it.

I'm actually contemplating getting a "flip phone" again. The only reason I've been holding off is for the camera aspect. But, from what I've gathered here, some (most?) of the phone out there are just as compact and take much better photos.

[sonicCows]

Sensor quality on phones is great now and I can get some nice photos from my phone camera, even at night, but computation photography can't overcome physics.

You will notice crazy distortion on pretty much anything taken with a smartphone camera, like a brick wall or faces; this is due to the wide lenses needed for an equivalent focal length on a larger sensor. Here is a good example with the new iPhone:
https://boingboing.net/2019/09/27/fisheye-banana.html

Zooming in with an iPhone is mostly done by cropping images as well, not a true optical zoom. Compact cameras are fine taking photos of landscapes but if you want specific compositions you're mostly out of luck. Sensor size and ease of controls will always have me come back to using dedicated cameras over a smartphone.

[merlinmurph]

Different question but good location to pose question:

I'm taking safari next year. I'm not much of a photographer, frankly, with only a 15 year old DSLR and older iPhone 7.

Should I (a) invest in new iPhone 11 OR (b) invest in mid-level digital camera (say $500)? I'm leaning towards iPhone because of weight, space, and I know I'll eventually need a phone. But does anyone want to make case for new camera?

Another option is to get a decent camera and rent a long lens for your trip. You will need it, but you may not want to buy it.

Something to think about, too. Do you want to spend energy and $$$ taking pics, or would you rather sit back with a nice pair of binoculars and simply enjoy the experience?

Enjoy your trip!

[SoCalSteve]

Another option is to get a decent camera and rent a long lens for your trip. You will need it, but you may not want to buy it.

Something to think about, too. Do you want to spend energy and $$$ taking pics, or would you rather sit back with a nice pair of binoculars and simply enjoy the experience?

Enjoy your trip!

I am so happy I bought the body and lens I did for my safari adventure in South Africa. Those photos are some of my best work. And, the memories will last a lifetime.

Glass is more important than the body, especially when it comes to this style of photography. Again, a minimum of 300mm, I shot with a 100-400 and was very happy with the results.

[gavingould]

usually when i go out on the bike, i take my iPhone XR and a Fuji X-Pro2 in a handlebar bag. if it's anything more than a throwaway snapshot, i'm taking it with the Fuji.

i shoot cyclocross with the X-Pro2, an X-T2, and Fuji GFX50r medium-format setup. good luck telling the difference on instagram... i have printed stuff from the X-Pro2 and X-T2 as large as 24x36" and they look fantastic.
haven't printed anything from the GFX yet...

if i were going on a safari, i'd rent lenses.
Lensrentals.com and borrowlenses.com are reputable sources with good service, i've used both.

[MikeD]

What computer monitor would you guys recommended? I currently have a 1080p 24" monitor and it's not adequate for viewing and editing photos. I'm thinking a 4K monitor, but not an expensive professional grade one.

[colker]

usually when i go out on the bike, i take my iPhone XR and a Fuji X-Pro2 in a handlebar bag. if it's anything more than a throwaway snapshot, i'm taking it with the Fuji.

i shoot cyclocross with the X-Pro2, an X-T2, and Fuji GFX50r medium-format setup. good luck telling the difference on instagram... i have printed stuff from the X-Pro2 and X-T2 as large as 24x36" and they look fantastic.
haven't printed anything from the GFX yet...

if i were going on a safari, i'd rent lenses.
Lensrentals.com and borrowlenses.com are reputable sources with good service, i've used both.


I want those fujis. :hello::hello:

[MikeD]

Iphone 11 Pro vs Panasonic DMC-SZ7:

Panasonic
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200112/16a078f35f91c7261899428a017c4f14.jpg

iPhone
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200112/61af8034256fcdb142b9de5a2154b444.jpg

Panasonic
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200112/817f42553286ae6489250fe36f550e51.jpg

iPhone
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200112/080b593f0859b2a7f4a97cad8d39ce72.jpg

Edit: I went back and re-uploaded the photos at medium resolution.

[joosttx]

Bottom is iPhone bc looks to be over processed

[MikeD]

Bottom is iPhone bc looks to be over processed


Nope. The first photo in each set is the iPhone photo.

What's also interesting is that in the first photo set, where the sky is all white in the Panasonic photo, I ran the photo through Lightroom and I could not get the sky to show any clouds, so that detail is lost.

[joosttx]

Nope. The first photo in each set is the iPhone photo.

well the settings you have on the camera are over processing the image.

[bikinchris]

Nope. The first photo in each set is the iPhone photo.

None of those photos are very good at this size. I would hate to see them at full size.

[MikeD]

well the settings you have on the camera are over processing the image.


The settings were on "intelligent automatic," the default automatic setting which the manual says is the best all around setting. It does have other scenery settings, which may or may not improve things. It's a point and shoot camera, which is how I used it.

[joosttx]

The settings were on "intelligent automatic," the default automatic setting which the manual says is the best all around setting. It does have other scenery settings, which may or may not improve things. It's a point and shoot camera, which is how I used it.

An iphone is perfect for you.

[MikeD]

None of those photos are very good at this size. I would hate to see them at full size.


Why do you say it's not full size? When I touch the image in Tapatalk, it blows up the image to full size and it's indistinguishable from the original in Photos on my iPad.

[choke]

I too would have thought that the 2nd set was the iPhone. But I'm not really a fan of any of those pics, they all look over processed to me.

It's not really a fair comparison though as the DMC-SZ7 came out in 2012. There have been a lot of strides in compact cameras in the last 8 years, just as there have been in phone cameras.

As for the iA setting, there are times when it does produce the better pic. I have had a few Lumix over the years and I've found that I get the best pics in the A (aperture priority) setting or sometimes in the S (shutter priority) setting.

[joosttx]

I too would have thought that the 2nd set was the iPhone. But I'm not really a fan of any of those pics, they all look over processed to me.

It's not really a fair comparison though as the DMC-SZ7 came out in 2012. There have been a lot of strides in compact cameras in the last 8 years, just as there have been in phone cameras.

As for the iA setting, there are times when it does produce the better pic. I have had a few Lumix over the years and I've found that I get the best pics in the A (aperture priority) setting or sometimes in the S (shutter priority) setting.

I think that his point. He is trying to prove to the world that he is right with comparisons of a subpar camera to the new iPhone.

I think he got all pissy because a while back I recommended an RX100 camera and he found an article saying that an iphone camera was better. When we all agreed an iphone camera is great and the difference is slim he still wanted to rattle everyone's cages. As I said before I think the iphone is a perfect camera for him. Its not for me and others but the camera I use has plenty of misses too. But I am comfortable with it and that is what matters to me... not what someone else thinks.

[MikeD]

None of those photos are very good at this size. I would hate to see them at full size.

Yikes! Agree. Just looked at them on a web browser on my computer. Tapatalk is way better for this (or right click on the image and save it, then open it; it looks way better).

[vincenz]

Nope. The first photo in each set is the iPhone photo.

What's also interesting is that in the first photo set, where the sky is all white in the Panasonic photo, I ran the photo through Lightroom and I could not get the sky to show any clouds, so that detail is lost.



What exactly are you trying to prove with these images? It’s already known cameras from top end smartphones are extremely good especially when compared to top end compact point and shoot cameras. The real difference is when you start to compare smartphone cameras to micro four thirds and bigger sensor cameras.

[happycampyer]

I just replaced my iPhone X with the iPhone 11 Pro Max. The improvement from the X is night and day. One of the reasons I upgraded is that I was at a dinner party and someone took a photo with their Samsung whatever, and it was waaaay better than same photos people took with the iPhone X. Not sure if the 11 Pro Max is as good as that Samsung, but it's pretty damn close.

Phone cameras have come a long way, and in my experience, have made taking photos pretty idiot-proof. Low light adjustment/performance is very good, especially with the 11 Pro Max and whatever Samsung that was. As a few people said a couple of pages ago, phone cameras have decimated the cheap digital camera market.

I have the first and second generation Sony RX100s, and the Cannon S95 and S100. I sold a Fuji x100 to a photographer friend. These cameras take great photos, still better than the iPhone, but I rarely use them because of the convenience factor. Why carry a camera and a phone? I would note that, when I do take the RX100 with me, the main reason is so that I can shoot in aperture-priority mode—I rarely use the auto setting.

When I want to take really good photos, I use a Nikon D750. A DSLR body with a full-frame sensor used to cost as much as a car, and now the bodies are as cheap as premium compact cameras.

Maybe I'll do a test tomorrow to see how the different cameras compare...

[charliedid]

It's getting weird around here.

[ntb1001]

Anybody has thoughts on the Canon EOS R ??

I was thinking of buying one with the new 24-105 f4 L with the RF mount.
It seems like a good travel camera.

I mostly use a 1DX, with L lenses, but it’s a little large for travel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[colker]

The settings were on "intelligent automatic," the default automatic setting which the manual says is the best all around setting. It does have other scenery settings, which may or may not improve things. It's a point and shoot camera, which is how I used it.


The best setting is raw and you chose what to do on photoshop when converting to jpg. Automatic has too much contrast.

[ergott]

Anybody has thoughts on the Canon EOS R ??

I was thinking of buying one with the new 24-105 f4 L with the RF mount.
It seems like a good travel camera.

I mostly use a 1DX, with L lenses, but it’s a little large for travel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd love to get one myself. That or 5D mk4. I like the idea of rear screen touch to focus option.

[mhespenheide]

Computational photography.

Here's one example of the current drawbacks to computational photography:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bbis70m3HYg/XhpUsH1qNJI/AAAAAAAADc8/vPhSv5_75CwLO_3ASuj-VXDfuDWRtANWwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_5024.jpg

I'm not trying to pick on Angry here, but the computer inside the phone is trying to duplicate the look of a large-aperture lens, sometimes called subject isolation, where the subject is in focus and the background is not. (For an excellent example of this done well through optics on a large sensor, refer back to James Dak's bird photo upthread).

Here, though, the processor in the phone isn't doing a great job picking out what should be in focus and what shouldn't, so we can see areas that should be blurry but aren't -- underneath the saddle, to the right of water bottle on the seat tube, between and near the top of the fork, etc. We can also see things that should be in focus but aren't -- the end of the handlebars, for example.

Near the stem, we can see an area in focus between the stem and the rear brake cable, but immediately to the left of the brake cable, we've got blur.

Like I said, this is a current example. Computational photography will get better.

But I'm also using computational photography on files from my Sony a7r2: I shoot bracketed images and then use highlights from one image and shadows from another to get massive tonal range. Here's an example:

https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/80757106_3429480273793794_2053208325578817536_o.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQm_tqs2RnA9Q-JQ8PFGibNV4X-Bcnm96Pbt567Cdvoc-OzamMXk8NubgctkzbWtBJM&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&_nc_tp=1&oh=1d9ab9c9cbdc46fb1d46e3b9b3eb0dff&oe=5EAD888C

Or I'm taking multiple images focused at different distances, so that I can have rocks in the foreground in focus at the same time as mountains in the background, without having to resort to stopping down to f/22 (with the commensurate loss in quality due to diffraction):

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81291127_3423979627677192_3691726769770987520_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQnRkjYf2x-TizzpZVhv7Onqvf13e5tDOb9aWh5xX4GCxvLxIvW9WRVE_yMwd OAAkPY&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=dbc2d9a8724e8ee624b61942aacbb742&oe=5EDBCF52

So, yeah, computational photography is a thing. There are still fundamental limitations to the small sensors in camera phones, though.

[Tony Edwards]

Anybody has thoughts on the Canon EOS R ??

I was thinking of buying one with the new 24-105 f4 L with the RF mount.
It seems like a good travel camera.

I mostly use a 1DX, with L lenses, but it’s a little large for travel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When it comes to full frame mirrorless, Canon and Nikon are still considerably behind Sony (not surprisingly, since they are literally 2-3 generations behind in development). The A7iii is, to me, the camera to beat in that class, and by all accounts the A7iv will be released in the next couple of months. I can understand the desire to stay in the Canon ecosystem and continue to use your Canon glass, but there are a few great options in Canon-to-Sony adapters that work very well.

[Ti Designs]

I don't own a cell phone...

I have a few cameras, a couple of tripods, a photo studio... None of that makes me an expert on the subject.

I was on a few photography forums, but like bike forums I don't get the arguments. The camera equipment I use is what I think I will need to create the next image I want to make. The image is the end result, if you're posting images to make a point about the equipment, you've missed the point of photography.

[AngryScientist]

Here's one example of the current drawbacks to computational photography:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bbis70m3HYg/XhpUsH1qNJI/AAAAAAAADc8/vPhSv5_75CwLO_3ASuj-VXDfuDWRtANWwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/IMG_5024.jpg

I'm not trying to pick on Angry here,.

haha, no offense taken. i am definitely not a good photo taker, and did laugh myself when i saw what my iPhone did to this image!

[tuxbailey]

What computer monitor would you guys recommended? I currently have a 1080p 24" monitor and it's not adequate for viewing and editing photos. I'm thinking a 4K monitor, but not an expensive professional grade one.

I have an older version of this monitor. It was pretty good out of the box without the need of calibration as it is factory calibrated:

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-PA329Q-3840x2160-ProArt-Monitor/dp/B0084FNAB4?th=1

The 24" sRGB version should good enough for everyday use. If you want to splurge get the 32" Adobe RGB version.

Here is a link for other choices:

https://www.creativebloq.com/buying-guides/best-monitors-for-photo-editing