Do bike frames age like fine wine?

[XXtwindad]

I'm in the process of completing a purchase on a high-end Ti frame, which is about six years old.

I'm wondering if the "mythical" qualities that people laud in titanium frames is the same after six years. Is it enhanced? Does it somehow diminish over time? I have no idea, since I've never owned a high end frame for that long.

What about the "lively" feel of steel? Or the "stiffness" people usually associate with carbon? Do those qualities age well? Do they change over time?

Interested in any feedback from people who've owned the same frame several years...

[tv_vt]

Well, I've owned a Fierte IT for 10 years. It has well over 10,000 miles on it just by me. And I am not the first owner - I think I'm the third. I can't tell any difference to the ride feel now from the first day I got it. Actually, it rides better - it has a different fork on it now. The first one was a bit of a noodle.

I also have a Merckx MXL that was built in 1994, so 25 years old. But I've only had it a year or so. It rides beautifully now, but have no idea what it rode like when new. Certainly has more gears now than when it was new.

One thing to be said for keeping a bike for a while is that it evolves to better suit you. At least for me, I'm always fine-tuning the ride, swapping out forks, saddles, bars, cranks, stems, wheels, tires, and other components, even just handlebar tape color or style. Sometimes it's because something new comes on the market or sometimes it's because a component fails or does not quite work as desired. I once had a Look 481 with a 25.0 seatpost. The original carbon one cracked and then came a Bontrager/Trek one and another one I can't remember. Then I got a Dura Ace post and the difference was stunning. The bike was solid and smooth and perfect with that one on there.

[e-RICHIE]

Despite the material, or even the frame design, I tip my hat to anyone to can isolate these and discern the small characteristics you ask about from the stew of components attached that make the bicycle a whole.

[Veloo]

I've had a Lynskey Ti frame for just over 7 years now. Rides the same as day 1, not any worse or better.

I like it better than steel. Absorbs rough roads better.

[P K]

What about the "lively" feel of steel? Or the "stiffness" people usually associate with carbon? Do those qualities age well? Do they change over time?



Ask people who race a lot (especially sprinters) and they'll say frames wear out in one season, get spongy, lose their snap/stiffness

[OtayBW]

IMO, the only possible change is some kind of degradation process, and that is highly unlikely for a well-constructed, well-kept frame. In terms of 'aging like wine'...I don't see it.

[NHAero]

My Bob Jackson was made for me in 1972. It has fared far better with age than its owner. I've always found that its ride qualities were most dependent on the wheels and tires on it more than anything else I could discern. Over the years it's had everything from rugged 36 spoke clinchers with 32mm touring tires to light alloy skinny high pressure tubulars.

[joosttx]

Never heard of a bike becoming better as it ages regardless of material it is made of. I think some people appreciate a bike more they own for a while. For you buying a frame built in 2013, I seriously doubt it “rides better” than when it was brand new. It is a better bet that buying a six year old bike will ride worse than brand new because of the wear and tear the previous owner did to it. Not saying that’s the case but I would find that more believable than a bike ages into its prime.

[XXtwindad]

Never heard of a bike becoming better as it ages regardless of material it is made of. I think some people appreciate a bike more they own for a while. For you buying a frame built in 2013, I seriously doubt it “rides better” than when it was brand new. It is a better bet that buying a six year old bike will ride worse than brand new because of the wear and tear the previous owner did to it. Not saying that’s the case but I would find that more believable than a bike ages into its prime.

Well, I was being a bit figurative. I'm no oenophile, but I do know that many vintages age incredibly well, and (many) others not so much. I was curious as to how different frame materials age or degrade, if at all.

[buddybikes]

My body does, unfortunately wasn't a good year...

[jischr]

The bottom bracket on my steel Gitane frame got wimpy and flexed after a number of years. My 20 year old Colnago aluminum and carbon frames have no flex that I can tell. I won't say the Colnago's age like fine wine, but they haven't changed for better or worse.

[tomato coupe]

I'm in the process of completing a purchase on a high-end Ti frame, which is about six years old.

I'm wondering if the "mythical" qualities that people laud in titanium frames is the same after six years. Is it enhanced? Does it somehow diminish over time? I have no idea, since I've never owned a high end frame for that long.

Over the long term, titanium frames gain approximately 1.3% of mythicalness per year, but the exact rate depends on the age of the owner. Studies show that for owners under 65, the mythicalness actually drops rapidly, and is no longer detectable after a few years.

[wgp]

My frames/bikes (comprising Ti, carbon, and steel) are all builds from the early 2000s, and I'll be damned if I can tell whether there has been any degradation (let alone improvement, which seems far-fetched) over these intervening years. I certainly don't enjoy them any less! I've made changes to their components (move from Campy 10sp to 11sp, wheels, saddles), but they ride as great as ever.

[Matthew]

Got over 22k on my Moots Compact. Seems to ride the same as when it was new.

[Ttx1]

Buy a great frameset that fits, and you will likely enjoy it even more if you use it to increase your mileage, improve your fitness, and up your game.

It’s not the bike that changes, it’s the rider.

[XXtwindad]

Over the long term, titanium frames gain approximately 1.3% of mythicalness per year, but the exact rate depends on the age of the owner. Studies show that for owners under 65, the mythicalness actually drops rapidly, and is no longer detectable after a few years.

Dark humor. Reminds me of a Flannery O'Connor short story. Oops. Wrong thread. :)

[wildboar]

If I rotate my bars 1 degree, the bike turns into a completely different bike.

[BryanE]

No

[jr59]

The good stuff will always be the good stuff.

Same with bad stuff, it will be bad

[unterhausen]

when I was younger, I believed I needed a new bike every 2 years. The last one in that string of bikes actually lasted me over 30 years. I have some cynical thoughts about where the idea of constant replacement came from.

[Black Dog]

Despite the material, or even the frame design, I tip my hat to anyone to can isolate these and discern the small characteristics you ask about from the stew of components attached that make the bicycle a whole.

This. Frames do not change over time unless damaged or corroded.

[steelbikerider]

I have a 20 year old Hans Schneider custom with 50000+ miles that I enjoy more now than ever. It's had tubes replaced, 4 different groupsets, and new paint. It's not my number 1 ride anymore but I still take it out every week or two. I still have more pr's on it than my 2 year old Gallium Pro.
Interesting thing is that the geometry on the Gallium is almost exactly the same. The Gallium gets good reviews for its handling but I think the Schneider is even better.

[weisan]

Do bike frames age like fine wine?
According to him, the answer is yes.
https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/readersrigs/readers-rigs-hans-schneider-custom-build/

[Black Dog]

Ask people who race a lot (especially sprinters) and they'll say frames wear out in one season, get spongy, lose their snap/stiffness

This is simply not true. Metal does not get softer and carbon never does unless it is compromised and then it will fail suddenly. This is a very old myth that has no basis in reality. The science on this one is solid.

[pbarry]

Alan bonded alloy frames can “degrade” over time because the adhesive may fail. I pulled a fork end out of an Alan fork with almost no force, after noticing it was loose when a friend complained about the bike riding funny.

[oldpotatoe]

Despite the material, or even the frame design, I tip my hat to anyone to can isolate these and discern the small characteristics you ask about from the stew of components attached that make the bicycle a whole.

AND, the 'bike frame' of almost any material is SO overbuilt generally..put even a BIG dude on it, and that person's measly power output..not gonna change any bike frame over time. They don't get soft or vague or stiffer or anything..particularly titanium. :)

Heard to 'steel frames get soft over time' for years and ....nope.

[colker]

Ask people who race a lot (especially sprinters) and they'll say frames wear out in one season, get spongy, lose their snap/stiffness

Superstition and placebo age spectacularly preferably on internet and other virtual medias.

[Hellgate]

I've found Ti is very consistent over time. My Davidson Ti is 18 years old this year. Before I hung it up it rode as well at 50,000 miles as it did new. If Campy ever comes out with a wireless group the SR group from the 333fab will transfer back to the Davidson and it will go back into service.

[PQJ]

My almost 15-year old Serotta Concours has 60k+ miles on it and rides as good as it did when new. It still practically rides itself, except when I'm getting dropped (file in the category of: The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same).

[unterhausen]

Superstition and placebo age spectacularly preferably on internet and other virtual medias.

it's far older than that. I heard about frames getting softer in the '70s, they probably were saying that back much earlier than that. Most things in cycling were well established by 1910.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Carbon fiber gets softer. Just look at this 30 year old Colnago:

[Kirk007]

Boeing and Airbus wish this was true, think of how many more airplanes they could sell as they retired the old soft ones.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[adub]

Looking at the resale market for high end bikes I'd say the answer is a definitive "no"

[jimoots]

I’ve put 75,000km on my 2009 Moots Compact, which I bought second hand in 2015.

I’ve rotated through a groupset and several sets of wheels but it very much rides the same now as when I bought it.

[CNY rider]

Boeing and Airbus wish this was true, think of how many more airplanes they could sell as they retired the old soft ones.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Boeing’s current strategy of building new ones that fly into the ground and need to be replaced seems to have hit a few snags.

[steveoz]

Some of my older frames are aging like a fine wine - they're collecting a thick layer of dust.....

[saab2000]

Old Look 585s begin to lose their clear coat. And they’re cheap. So no, they don’t age like fine wines.

[Dino Suegiù]

Ask people who race a lot (especially sprinters) and they'll say frames wear out in one season, get spongy, lose their snap/stiffness

Hmmm.
Many people are still riding 30+ year old steel frames, often hard, often daily, with no noticeable decay in all that time, as long as the frames have been maintained.


Completed in March 1989 (130 seasons now, and still going strong).
Exposed to wind, rain, snow, smog, elevators, etc, every second since.
Does not "wear out in one season", just as any decent bicycle frame does not.
Does not "age like fine wine", just as any bicycle frame does not.

https://s3-sa-east-1.amazonaws.com/mundogum/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/3919.jpg

[Seramount]

35K+ miles on a Serotta-made Ti frame...still rides like the day I got it.

my body is deteriorating far faster than it ever will.

[Clancy]

This is simply not true. Metal does not get softer and carbon never does unless it is compromised and then it will fail suddenly. This is a very old myth that has no basis in reality. The science on this one is solid.

I absolutely believe this but what about joined materials? Whereas the material may not degrade, is it possible the joints (carbon) or welds (steel) weaken over repeated stresses?

And what science deduces and the body perceives are often contradictory. Perhaps the feeling of “aged wine” has to do with the body adjusting to the bike over time, muscle memory. I know my body feels immediately at home on my one main bike, the one I’ve spent many hours on. It fits me not like a glove, but a well worn and extremely comfortable glove. And then add to that how the shifting loosens up over time and how the body adjusts to the particulars of the drivetrain and steering. I can see how people developed the idea of a bicycle aging over time.

One last comment. The romance and mystery of cycling should never be underestimated. Although the scientific mind may say the individual materials are inert, who’s to say the completed bicycle is not completely without its own peculiar personality that gives it a feeling of being “alive”.

I cannot think of another machine where ones body is so connected and together can perform so smoothly and effortlessly, and even magically. Perhaps hang gliders and their pilots are also connected. So maybe our bikes do not age like fine wines. But something happens. Regardless of what that something is, I’m for one am grateful it does!

[XXtwindad]

I absolutely believe this but what about joined materials? Whereas the material may not degrade, is it possible the joints (carbon) or welds (steel) weaken over repeated stresses?

And what science deduces and the body perceives are often contradictory. Perhaps the feeling of “aged wine” has to do with the body adjusting to the bike over time, muscle memory. I know my body feels immediately at home on my one main bike, the one I’ve spent many hours on. It fits me not like a glove, but a well worn and extremely comfortable glove. And then add to that how the shifting loosens up over time and how the body adjusts to the particulars of the drivetrain and steering. I can see how people developed the idea of a bicycle aging over time.

One last comment. The romance and mystery of cycling should never be underestimated. Although the scientific mind may say the individual materials are inert, who’s to say the completed bicycle is not completely without its own peculiar personality that gives it a feeling of being “alive”.

I cannot think of another machine where ones body is so connected and together can perform so smoothly and effortlessly, and even magically. Perhaps hang gliders and their pilots are also connected. So maybe our bikes do not age like fine wines. But something happens. Regardless of what that something is, I’m for one am grateful it does!

Very erudite response. Well said.