Ottrott ST or Derossa King?

[Abzotech]

I'm iching to get a new ride. Could not really decide on which. Ottrott or King? Any thoughts anyone?

[zap]

IMHO, between the two, Ottrott.

I'm not sure, but my understanding is that King framsets are made in Taiwan.

[Serotta PETE]

For me there would be 1st, 2nd, 3rd place choices = OTTROTT

Sorry to be so biased but Serotta offers:

1 custom sizing
2 custom frame/tube tuning to ride preference
3 colors and decal choices to "you wishes"
4 best warranty in the indusrty
5 I know and greatly respect the Serotta "build" team.


I do not mean to offend but for me there would be only 1 choice.


PETE

[Kevin]

Ottrott ST

Kevin

[Tony Edwards]

One of my all-time favorite bikes was a DeRosa Professional, but it doesn't seem to me this is much of a competition. Both these bikes will offer a transcedent ride if they fit perfectly, but frankly I find the King pretty appallingly expensive for a non-custom bike, and good luck getting any warranty support (or even a reasonable break on a replacement for a crashed bike) from DeRosa. This was nothing to fear with the wonderful old steel DeRosas, but I would be concerned about it with a featherweight CF wonderbike.

As others have said above, Serotta offers a full custom build, some of the nicest build quality on planet Earth, and stellar customer service and support. What's not to like?

I doubt I will ever be looking to spend this kind of cake on a bike, but if I were, the Ottrott seems like the natural choice.

[CarbonTi]

DeRosa is one of my favorite bikes. I've had a Pro SLX and currently own a King. The King is a great ride and seems like DeRosa tried to duplicate the lively feel of a good steel SLX frame in the characteristics of the King. Or said another way, DeRosa didn't go overboard on making the King monstrously stiff in the bottom bracket. With characteristics like "lively" and "stiff" being on opposite sides of the ride spectrum, you need to know where along that line you desire to wind up. In contrast, a Trek 5200/5500 OCLV prioritizes stiffness and to me rides like a bike boom gaspipe Peugeot UO-8 only much much lighter!

If I had to choose between a King and an Ottrott, I'd still choose the King knowing that choice is based more on personal history with DeRosa, emotion and an affinity for Italian bikes. If factors like this click your tumblers than you won't care that the numbers don't add up in practical terms versus the Ottrott.

But the Ottrott is the better choice overall. The Euro/USD cross rate is terrible so the spread between Ottrott/King weighs against the import. Serotta will build an Ottrott with your geometry and the ride characteristics you prefer. If you're accurate in working with Serotta, your odds are very good they will get you into the sweetspot. The Derosa is as it comes so the risk is greater.

In either case, it's nice to be in such a position. Good luck.

[Jack Brunk]

Zap,

The King frame is made in Milan. I personally checked before I purchased my King.


Jack

[dbrk]

I wonder what difference it makes where the King is made: Italy or Taiwan? So what? Really. I guess it's passion but why is it quality? All of those "fantastic" carbon cranksets etc. nearly all come from Taiwan. Who builds an Ottrott? Who builds a CSi? Does it really matter if the build is correct to spec? Hmmm.

Not everyone needs a custom bike so I think that that argument can be overstated. It depends on your body and on how you like to ride but if you can get custom for the price of off the peg then, so long as some fitter doesn't compromise the aesthetic bejeezus outta the fit solution (fit and fit solution being two different things), then it's easier to pick the custom.

The unfavorable Euro-Dollar has made Italian bikes, even ones made in Taiwan, most unattractive. You can get far better for less here in the States, so again you are buying passion (nothing wrong with that). If there is no problem with the frame then there is no problem: but a good dealer will help you out, no matter where the bike comes from, so the warranty issue is also sorta' moot to me.

The King is a lot of money and I think you can get as much in carbon for less money. The Ottrott is a lot more money and well it's a lot more money. For value, neither is the "best" bike you can ride but who's talking about value? It's passion, not sense that makes sense here. Get happy passionately if that's your fancy. If it's the cost/benefit then that's another strategy altogether.

dbrk

[Roy E. Munson]

Come on, there are more expensive frames out there than that, and that's obviously what you're basing your decision on. Ride quality, durability, fit? Who cares, as long as it costs a small fortune!!

[Len J]

I'm curious. It's obvious from your posts that you have the oponion that the Ottrott/Legend purchaser is ONLY buying such a bike because it is expensive and "elite". Have you ever ridden these bikes? How long? Under what conditions?

I have a Legend that I bought after a serious accident where my other bike was destroyed. I was lucky enough to have the Ins Co pay for my bike. I personally bought the Legend because: I wanted TI (as I ride all winter), I loved the ride of the Legend, I wanted custom (for fit as well as other options (ride tuning), I loved the look of the Tubes (Yes, I'm shallow), I wanted an American Bike, I could afford it, and yes, I wanted a bike that I didn't see 400 of at every organized ride I did (see, I said I was shallow). I would rate all of these reasons as about equal. Could I have gotten 90% of the bike for less than half the cost? Of course. But that is true of most things we consume in this country. The point is, I decided to spend my money on my passion, riding, and decided to reward myself for getting 4 kids thru college and splurged on me finally.

I guess the point I'm making is.........why does why someone else chooses to spend x amount on a prticular bike bother you so much?

I'll stop rambling now....just curious.

Len

[Roy E. Munson]

It doesn't bother me at all - it amuses me, to be honest! I just can't understand spending a fortune on a bike as a status symbol. I may be wrong, but there is not one onstance where I mention that a Legend is a status symbol purchase - just the Ottrot.

[Andreu]

I loved the look of the Tubes (Yes, I'm shallow), I wanted an American Bike, I could afford it, and yes, I wanted a bike that I didn't see 400 of at every organized ride I did (see, I said I was shallow).
I admire your honesty.
I wish there was more of it around.
A :beer:

[Len J]

It doesn't bother me at all - it amuses me, to be honest! I just can't understand spending a fortune on a bike as a status symbol. I may be wrong, but there is not one onstance where I mention that a Legend is a status symbol purchase - just the Ottrot.

Roy:

Substitute Ottrott for Legend in my description and I'd still feel OK about it.

I just bought an OTTROTT ST in the Serotta auction. I was curious as to how much better the ride was than the Legend I love. I just got it last weekend, so I don't feel qualified to comment yet.

Have you ridden the Ottrott? Why is this a status symbol and not the Legend? It's all in the eye of the beholder isn't it? to someone who drives a 72 hornet, a 2004 chevy Malibu is a status symbol, but to a 04 BMW owner the Malibu is a pedestrian vehicle. Likewise, to a Porsche Turbo driver, the BMW might be pedestrian.......Who decides. I say, spend your own money, ride what you want, and judge not.

I suspect that Ottrott owners are just like every other group of Bike owners......there are some that are shallow (like me).........and some that do discern the differences in the ride and felt they were worth it to them, and everywhere in between. who's to know what the truth is for any one individual?

My pet peeve has always been sweeping generalizations across an entire population. Sorry if it's an overreaction.

Len

[Andreu]

A question for the original poster, Abzotech:
What were the criteria for choosing these bikes: they are very different material-wise and probably give different rides (I am assuming price wasn´t a criteria). DeRosa King with C4, or C40 I can understand.
Just curious.
A
PS I am right in thinking the DeRosa King is an all carbon frame?

[Roy E. Munson]

LenJ,

You admit you're shallow, and I respect that. If more people would say they bought a bike for that reason, I could respect that more, but to quote the sublime ride, the knife through butter, the corners on rails, blah blah blah trying to justify a purchase is ridiculous, and it amuses me.

I have ridden an Ottrot, and a Legend, not overly impressed by either. And I'm glad you said 2004 Malibu, because I'd take many a Malibu over a Porsche or BMW!

[jeffg]

these are very different bikes. Ride one and you'll see very quickly. I rode a King and did not care for it one bit. It handled poorly for my money, is not particularly light, and does not have the snap that an Ottrott or Legend has. FWIW, Boardman also panned the King's handling, saying that it was fine for a ride to the cafe but not for descending in the mountains. I rode a Merak (pre-carbon stays) and really enjoyed that, though I would not ride a DC on it. Honestly, I think the Legend is just about a perfect bike. For carbon, I think a Hampsten/Parlee is the ticket in that price class, and I would buy a Giant or an OCLV before the King. Of course, the only way to tell is by riding one. You can certainly demo an Ottrott, so try one and see!

best,

Jeff

[djg]

think these folks would have to hark to the internet's ability to cull a handful of like-minded bodies from the nation's (indeed world's) population merely to find a couple dozen other folks willing to talk about this stuff?

I have neither an Ottrot nor a Legend, but it seems to me that one person's fortune is another's pocket change. If your kids (if you got 'em) are fed and shod, then it seems to me o.k. if you buy whatever bike you want. If it's an Ottrot because, based on twenty years worth of experience, you know that you really love the way Serotta designs bikes and you're curious to know what he'd do with your measurements and a pile of different materials, then that's fine with me. If it's an Ottrot because you thought the shape of the Serotta "S" decal looked really cool, then that's fine with me too. If it's an Ottrot because you think that now, finally now, Charlize Theron and Katie Holmes will get into a viscious cat-fight over who gets to take you home . . . well, good luck to you young man and please go easy on that crack pipe.

[Roy E. Munson]

I had to get on the crack to keep my weight down because the heroin was too damn pricy. Any of you affluent Ottrot owner's have a few pennies I could borrow?

[Len J]

Roy:

I admit I'm shallow in some things, not all things. Things are not all black & white, but rather grey. My shallowness was (IMO) only 25 or 30% of my decision, if I didn't feel the ride was better, the fit was better etc, I wouldn't have bought it.

Some of it may be justification, some of it is real, how do you know for any one rider, which is which?

To each their own.

Len


LenJ,

You admit you're shallow, and I respect that. If more people would say they bought a bike for that reason, I could respect that more, but to quote the sublime ride, the knife through butter, the corners on rails, blah blah blah trying to justify a purchase is ridiculous, and it amuses me.

I have ridden an Ottrot, and a Legend, not overly impressed by either. And I'm glad you said 2004 Malibu, because I'd take many a Malibu over a Porsche or BMW!

[Sandy]

Roy,

1. It is truly wonderful to have a genuine passion in life, especially one like cycling, that is healthy, immensely fun, generates remarkable friendships, and which one may participate in even at an advanced age.

2. The Ottrott is an extremely expensive bicycle, but it gives a remarkable balance of superior stability at speed, balanced neutral handling, outstanding reponsiveness to pedal input, excellent road feel, and a compliant ride.

3. I ride an Ottrott ST for ONLY one reason- I love the way the bike rides. For me it gives the two features I look for most in a bicycle- An amazing stabilty in descending and an equalling amazingly efficient transfer of pedal input to forward motion.

4. Your satus symbol reason for purchase statement, to me, is simply foolish and not at all true for those that I have ridden with who own and ride one.

5. I just went on a ride with a 61 year old male cyclist who owns an Ottrott ST. He went on a couple of somewhat hilly training rides last week and averaged 19.1 mph. He wasn't on his Ottrott. Will you be able to do that at 61?

6. Pete and Spokes own and ride Ottrotts sometime. They are genuine riders, each of whom do quite well riding. I am genuinely fortunate to have them as friends.

7. How many Ottrott owners do you know? Really know? Probably almost none. You make a statement with probably almost no real knowledge of what motivates individuals to make a particular purchase.


Coy Roy, I ride my Ottrott since it is a real JOY, not a Toy. I ride it because I love cycling and I love RIDING that bike.


Snobbish Serotta Sandy

[dirtdigger88]

Roy,

I did buy my Legend to impress someone. . .ME! I wanted a ti bike, i figured if I am spending that much money I might as well have it custom- so I bought a Legend. I don't ride around saying "Look at me on my cool expensive bike, I am great, Look at ME" In fact I try to stay very quiet and let my legs to the talking. Bottom line I wanted what I deemed the best Ti bike out there and I can afford it. My wife has clothes and my kid has food, I have my bike. I work my a** off every day to make sure my family if finacially secure. It kinda sounds like that reverse snobbery that I mentioned in another post. Maybe sour grapes?

Jason

[Roy E. Munson]

I don't buy that everyone who claims they notice the difference in the Ottrot actually does, but that's my opinion. They are feeling what they want to feel, or what they SHOULD fell after blowing $5K on a frame. I believe bikes are like cars - you can't say, "It turns like it's on rails", or "It carves like a knife through butter", or any of these bs cliches everyone pulls out of their arse when reviewing a bike unless you really push the thing to it's limits.

If it takes a $5K bike to keep you passionate about a sport, then you really don't like it that much.

[Kevan]

he couldn't bring himself to buying a Calfee. :D

[Roy E. Munson]

Don't get me started on custom! I'd say 10% of cyclist's need custom, but on Planet Serotta - EVERYONE needs custom.

And Sandy, how do you know I'm not 61, or even older. Well, my Depends are full, have to go get a fresh one!

[Serotta PETE]

Choices and more choices......that is what life is all about. Respect your fellow person and let live. Roy, come on out to ride and drink with us......It is all about people and fun.

I have a Serotta that you can borrow to ride with us, if you are ever in NC> Unless SANDY gets here first.

PETE

[CarbonTi]

I admit I'm shallow in some things, not all things. Things are not all black & white, but rather grey. My shallowness was (IMO) only 25 or 30% of my decision...


The LenJ doth protest too much. ;)

If performance (whatever that is) is the end-all and be-all, virtually any bike at the fraction the cost of a King/Ottrott will suffice. But to successfully meld aesthetics and performance, that's where the magic is. I am one that would happily pay an irrational premium to own objects such as these.

I'd even say that a non-pro cyclist can weigh the aesthetic over performance and still not press the envelope of what a modern bike can do. If that falls under an arbitrary definition of shallow, well that's fine with me, I'll be there.

[Roy E. Munson]

Pete McKeon - finally someone not on the defensive. I respect all people, but I think dissenting opinions make the day on the Serotta forum more interesting. Maybe I'll show at the Open House or Finger lakes in disguise!! :D

[Serotta PETE]

Roy, please come, I will be at both. The first drink is on me.....PETE

[dirtdigger88]

Roy,

come the the finger lakes, you can ride my Legend (for a little while) :bike:

I agree most do not "need" a custom. Look in the image gallery. I posted a picture of my Legend next to my Zurich, look at where the saddle and bars line up they are almost exactly the same. The Zurich is a stock 57 cm bike while the Legend is a custom 60cm. The only real difference is the use of spacers on my Zurich. Did I need a custom- no- but I did not like the use of tons of spacers on my Zurich. I like to look at specs on frames and yes I can find several with the same geometry as my custom Legend. Look comes to mind, as well as the new Lemonds with their slightly altered geometry. But I did not want a Look or a new Lemond. Serotta allowed me to get a ti bike with the geometry that I wanted with the "look" I wanted. Roy I like you stating your opinions, it does liven things up. I do, however, have an issue with you saying all Legend/Ottrot owners buy them as status items only. I am 34 years old and I was lucky enough to buy a bike that can and will serve me well for the rest of my life. Why not get what I want? If I can get it custom for no extra money, even if I only change one tube by one mm, it is still a bike built for me. Pete is buying your first drink, let me offer to buy your second :beer:. I will tip one of my non alcoholic beers in your honnor.

Jason

[bostondrunk]

Roy, don't worry about the sizing of the loner bikes. They may not have a 49cm bike for you, but we'll french fit you onto the 57!!!

[Ozz]

Roy, don't worry about the sizing of the loner bikes. They may not have a 49cm bike for you, but we'll french fit you onto the 57!!!

Even if we need to force it!!! ;)

Keep it interesting Roy... :beer:

[Dr. Doofus]

Ottrott.

I and he had the chance to ride a King, and DeRosa doesn't do carbon well...not for that much money. Didn't corner well (did some "crit-corner" sprints to check it out...wasn't impressed...).

If you're going to drop that many ducats, get the Ottrott...but personally, the Doc would go for a CSi or a similarly juicy steel rig...for a training/fun bike...the Doc may race again, using his Corsa 0.1...if he's fit, he'll do well on it...if he's not, a 2.5 pound frame won't make any difference over his 4-pound frame...1.5 pounds don't mean diddly if you don't have the watts.

Custom for the Doc (who is no super-fitter, but has fit a few folks over the years...like 70+ between different shops) is mainly a flexibility issue...HT extensions, TT lengths...that are better addressed, in my arrogant opinion, than by doing weird crap with the stem...there are some stock frames the Doc fits really well on...Gios, Coppi, De Bernardi...but one of those is junk, and we and I are of the opinion that the CSi rides better than any of them, as does the Corsa 0.1...so we went that route....


The Doc likes Munson. Private Munson is stupid and ignorant, but he's got guts, and guts is enough.

[Abzotech]

Well after all of that I've decided not to get either of them... at least for now.

I've decided to upgrade the components on my 1998 Serotta CTi instead. Now I just need to decide if I should go DA 10 or Campy 10. But I definetly want to a 50/34 chainring using FSA's Campact Carbon crankset.

But in the back of my heart I still want that dream frame someday. And if I did decide today I would mostlikely get the Ottrott.

Thanks everyone.
AbzoTech

[Roy E. Munson]

Eaaaaasy there, Doofus. :D
Back in the day....

[Dr. Doofus]

Private Munson --

If you get that movie reference, you win the Doc's old uncleaned chain :D

[Roy E. Munson]

Got it, Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.

[ericmurphy]

Who am I kidding? I'd never be able to push a $1,500 Trek to its limits. Of course I'll never be able to use a Legend to its fullest. But that's not the point. I spend about 500 hours a year in the saddle. It's like a part-time job! (Except I enjoy riding far more than I'd enjoy any job.) And what better way to spend those 500 hours than stretched out over a custom titanium Serotta?

Do I need a custom frame? Of course not. I'm a very average 6-foot tall guy with very average dimensions. Probably 99% of the 58-cm frames out there can be fitted to me quite comfortably. My decidedly non-custom Trek 2300 has fit me very well for the past 13 years.

But do I get a tremendous amount of pleasure and satisfaction knowing that my Legend will have been built for me specifically? And that I got to pick out exactly the color I want, which parts of the frame I want painted, the color of the decals? That I'm unlikely ever to see another Legend quite like mine? (Pity all those guys riding OCLVs in USPS livery---how do they know which bike is theirs?).

You bet I do.

[Climb01742]

roy sees himself as the spoon to our little pot here. i can dig it. and believe me, should the day ever arrive when i can plunk down $84K large on a brand spanking new 911 C4S, i'm doing it and i will apologize and/or rationalize the purchase to absolutely no one. people may sneer and think awful things of me. but you know what...i'll be driving a pearl black C4S. i say, ottrotts for anyone who wants one and can afford it...its your money and your life.

[Sandy]

Serotta's Suave Sex Symbol Sir Sandy Says Spinning Serotta's Status Symbol Seems So Satisfying Since Some Seem Simply Superior Spinning Serotta's Supersonic Speedy Scintillating Solid Stable Status Symbol

Sincerely,

Snobbish Significantly Superior Serotta Sex Symbol STill Serotta Sandy

[dbrk]

Pete McKeon - finally someone not on the defensive. I respect all people, but I think dissenting opinions make the day on the Serotta forum more interesting. Maybe I'll show at the Open House or Finger lakes in disguise!! :D

The Munson is most welcome at our Finger Lakes ride, in disguise, in drag, anyway he likes. (Drag would be good. But no matter, I will only insist on clothed in some way or another...) Further, both the Dr and Doofus are too welcome. Dissent is the mother of all worthwhile discourse and I fear for our country in which dissent is seemingly regarded as somehow unpatriotic or dismissed as unworthwhile. Tongues in cheek or audaciously in disagreement, methinks it better we nurture our passions than conceal them; and there is so little really at stake here that it costs us little more than our pride, no?

I took the westerly route today and shouted "TaTanka!! TaTanka!!" again at the buffalo, who stood bemused. The Scottish Highland cattle asked for Kevan, as usual. The Finger Lakes were cycling paradise today, I gotta say.


TaTanka! TaTanka! Ottrott!! Whatever you like!!
Oh, and one more thing: I'm with Climb on that Porsche...I think I want mine in red though...if that's okay with all my fellow poseurs,

dbrk