OT: Talk me out of this (BMW content)

[Hank Scorpio]

So I don't really need a new car but my current one, 2014 Subaru Outback, is about exciting to drive as a fart in church. I know, I know it is paid off, I am a dad, increase my contribution to her 529 account instead, blah blah, blah but coming from a history of sportbikes and sports cars I have that itch. So is this the money pit I am envisioning it may become? I am a decent mechanic and can handle most routine repairs/maintenance myself, large repairs wound have to go back to the shop as I don't have a garage at the present time.

Planning on going to take look tomorrow and test fit the child seat in it.

https://www.paulmillervw.com/exotic-used/BMW/2011-BMW-328i+xDrive-bernardsville-nj-608eec330a0d04fe230cb528c7fc0ec3.htm

No idea why it is listed as an exotic-used.

[Dired]

Great car, go for it.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[molly47]

go for it, you only live once

[jamesdak]

Never had a Bimmer I didn't like.

Currently have this 2016 340i M Sport that is a real blast to drive yet practical.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/169251654.jpg

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/169251662.jpg

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/169251661.jpg


I vote, go for it!

[tv_vt]

Jeez, that seems like a good deal. Very low miles and good condition. Automatics are easier to find than sticks. If that were a manual, it would be a very small needle in a big haystack.

It is one version older than current, or maybe two now with the 2020 models. But wagon isn't in current lineup. That one has the 6 cyl, current ones have the turbo 4 with more HP and better mileage, but cost more. Small detail, but I hear the cup holders drive people nuts.

I have a 2015 328 wagon - love it. Best car I've ever had. Thought long and hard about your older model, but decided to try to buy as new as possible to avoid nitpicky wear issues.

That is a really good price, though. I'm sure you would absolutely love the car as far as driving experience, especially compared to the Subaru. I'm not going to try to talk you out of it. Sorry! :)

[glepore]

I'll be the voice of negativity. Among car folks, BMW lost its way in the aughts.
Ridiculous model proliferation, but what's worse is interior quality that's fallen way down the foodchain along with other reliability and service issues. The cars are built for the lease crowd.
I spend a lot of time on various euro car boards, and this is pretty much a unanimous opinion. Some participants that actively trade used vehicles routinely express this same sentiment.

[jamesdak]

I'll be the voice of negativity. Among car folks, BMW lost its way in the aughts.
Ridiculous model proliferation, but what's worse is interior quality that's fallen way down the foodchain along with other reliability and service issues. The cars are built for the lease crowd.
I spend a lot of time on various euro car boards, and this is pretty much a unanimous opinion. Some participants that actively trade used vehicles routinely express this same sentiment.

Yep, saw these same kinds of comments before I bought my used E46 years ago. Most reliable car I've ever owned and a blast to drive. Then last year before picking up the 340i I saw the same sentiment. Bought the 340i and am honestly not worried at all. Now my son has one of those "high quality" Honda Elements. Biggest piece of crap for any car that has been in our family.

My vote is still, go for it! :banana:

[19wisconsin64]

I had a similar series BMW 3 series and it was a great car, but with an extremely small back seat. They changed the body style next year (2012) to have slightly better engines and transmissions and slightly large back seats. You may want to consider spending a few thousand more for a newer 3 series wagon. Great cars. We now drive a current model X3, and love it. The recent turbo 4 engines in the 3 series wagon are pretty amazing. They were about $50K new, and used are about $20K or so, and worth every penny. Just my car 2 cents.

[Ken Robb]

Does "Certified" mean it comes with a very inclusive 100,000 mile warranty? If so, that eliminates much of the worry about expensive repairs. This car looks almost new. This engine is a sweet runner but in this rather heavy car pushing 4 wheel drive you will have to choose drag race opponents very carefully. :)

[rwsaunders]

Buy it. I missed out on a red BMW 3 series wagon a few years ago that was in excellent shape, had low miles and was fairly priced. It sat in the lot for several months as everyone is focused on the SUV’s. When I finally decided to get serious...gone. Check the maintenance records and get ready for a serious cash outlay when the timing belt/water pump service is required...not sure if it’s 100K or 120K. Other than that, you should be able to put 150-200K on that car.

[stien]

The cars are built for the lease crowd.

I'll echo that. My mechanic buddy HATES working on any recent BMWs.

[woolly]

Another vote for doing it. I love my 135i - so glad I found it very lightly-used 4 years ago. Much prefer the steering to their latest offerings. I was also fortunate enough to find an excellent independent shop that only services BMW's. I actually prefer going there with my car more than taking my wife's X3 to the dealership (and hers is still under full warranty).

[bob heinatz]

This potentially will be a endless money pit. My wife and I have owned numerous BMW's new and used and the quality has definitely slipped in the last 10 - 15 years. Also if you never owned a german car the parts and repairs are extremely expensive. My wife and I are now happy Toyota owners.

[eddief]

how smooth is that suspension? how good are your teeth? can you smooth things out with lower tire pressure like your gravel bike? i had a manual trans 330i a ways back. i never got to the point of having to repair it cuz i hated driving it so much i sold it in less than 6 months. i loved the looks and the thought of owning a beemer. kinda like some crazy women i fell for.

i wonder if the car you are considering has this "feature?"

"At the heart of the BMW Start/Stop system is a beefier starter and a “glass-mat” 12-volt battery designed to handle the frequent starting. When the engine is warm and the cabin heating/cooling demands are in the right range, stopping at a light will be followed by a less than graceful shudder as the engine turns off. Next, the car turns the HVAC blower down to a gentle breeze to keep the electrical draw low. (Without a hybrid style battery, capacity is fairly low.) The car will automatically start the engine when you release the brake (or when the car decides the engine needs to run for cabin cooling.) Engine restarts are far from seamless with engine cranking, a shudder and a delay to forward progress while the ZF 8-speed’s hydraulics re-pressurize. Passengers used to smooth start/stop cycles in hybrid cars found the start/stop cycles “abrupt” and “jarring.” I found the fuel savings worth the commotion, but if your tastes differ, BMW offers an “off” button. If you live in a hot climate like Phoenix, don’t expect the system to start/stop too often."

how'd i do?

[Blue Jays]

Good luck with the planned BMW vehicle purchase, Hank Scorpio.
You may wish to bring one of your bicycles to ensure they fit inside.

[mktng]

great car. stiff ride
tiny tiny tiny rear leg room.
but tbh. i bet it'll be fine with a car seat and a toddler/kid in the back.

good trunk space. can fit a bike with the seats down
has roof rails for a rack. utilize that

but i agree. these are lease'er cars :P
however. id like one too.

[Hank Scorpio]

Coming from a Mini clubman I doubt the rear seating could be any smaller but definitely something to consider with the rapidly growing toddler in the mix. I am fairly lucky that round trip to the hospital and back is under 15 miles. I am also familiar with the pricing on service rates from the mini experience which was somewhat less than stellar. Have to give it a good thought. I noticed that the dealer already dropped the price $500 this past week so maybe they are preparing to send it to auction if it doesn’t generate much interest. Thanks for all the replies both positive and negative so far, very appreciated.

[p nut]

I had that itch many years ago. Got a bike instead. Motorbike, that is.

https://www.cycleworld.com/resizer/IVcVSWX8Y3OQE67SBWw0Tjtte_k=/1200x628/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bonnier.s3.amazonaws.com/public/EVUYD7XMQBFVOWA4KHNZ7XUIH4.jpg

[andeww]

I’ve had an 07 for a long time!

Great car and I haven’t had huge issues, including some road trips
Mpg is pretty poor considering how slow it is
Crucial you have an Indy bmw mechanic to work on it when needed
I think bmw is pretty good about not outdating their body body styles

https://i.ibb.co/s57kmNt/09-DCF12-B-383-E-4697-AD86-910-E81-AFEEE9.jpg (https://ibb.co/n3pZgYR)

[FlashUNC]

Best advice I ever got was from a Porsche owning friend. German cars demand keeping to the maintenance schedule with a fervor usually reserved for some religions. Otherwise expensive stuff starts to break and fast.

As long as you stay on top of it, I sat go for it.

[saab2000]

Best advice I ever got was from a Porsche owning friend. German cars demand keeping to the maintenance schedule with a fervor usually reserved for some religions. Otherwise expensive stuff starts to break and fast.


I own VWs and was married to a German car dealership (Opel) owner for many years. They are indeed designed for a maintenance schedule and the German philosophy is one of order and punctuality. Stick to the schedule and you’ll probably be OK.

Verify the warranty before signing anything. Actual repairs and parts will be expensive if/when they’re needed. Budget for this. There will be things like a timing belt and water pump in your not-so-distant future and that won’t be inexpensive.

Personally, not a fan of the sunroof because they kill headroom and are invariably a source of water ingress. But others seem OK with them.

If the warranty looks good go for it.

[biker72]

Limited Warranty: 6 Month / 6,000 Mile beginning after purchase date.

Most other "Certified" vehicles I've looked at have a 1 year warranty.

As others have mentioned adhere closely to the maintenance schedule.

[VTCaraco]

A week ago and I would have said "go for it".

My e46, which I had maintained with fervor, blew up on me last Sunday.
My son was driving from VA to VT through the snowstorm when it overheated. 10 hours at about 40 mph in 30˚ weather? Doesn't exactly sound like the highest-risk conditions. Maybe if he was setting a land-speed record in the heat of July I could blame him...
I get that he could have prevented the catastrophic loss if he had been able to IMMEDIATELY stop, but the (5 month old) expansion tank cracked, coolant vacated the system and the head cracked.
133k miles.
New tires 2 weeks ago. Heck, I had even replaced the kidney grills with new OEM (rather than aftermarket) within the last few weeks.

Gearing up to go look at some replacement options today, but not sure I have the stomach for the German options despite how wonderfully they drive.

[skiezo]

The E90 series of cars have a timing chain, just make sure the hydraulic tensioner is functioning properly and no worries. Great cars and just an updated version of the E46. 3.0L is a great powerplant and pulls harder than the rated HP. Find some seats from a sport model as they are way more comfy and offer lots of support. My past E46 and E90 were great cars and very little problems.
Parts online are reasonable and with the lighter rear end you need AWD. Driving my E46 RWD even in the rain was a chore at times.
Buy and enjoy.

[Kingfisher]

I’m a bmw fan, from motos to cars. I do agree as others have said....follow maintenance schedules. In our family I have an 18 X3 and wife a 430i currently. They are the most fun cars to drive and both built like tanks.
You only live once. The price seems right.

[GScot]

Since you claim mechanical skills it should be comparable in cost to anything else. I haven't paid as close attention to BMW parts as Audi/VW since that's what I now have but with the variety of online suppliers and strangely enough Rock Auto with a lot OEM stuff the costs are in line or cheaper than American or Japanese cars. And BMW like Audi/VW provide all of the service manuals and data without much hassle, try getting anything for a Ford or a Honda.

Everything I've done to my JSW or S5 I compare costs to a 1/2 ton Dodge and Ford pickup because that seems like it should be the cheapest thing in the US to work on. So far every job has been less expensive or about the same for the Audi. The area where the German car might kill you is labor if you have to pay someone to work on it, especially if you compare to a truck where the whole powertrain is likely to have a easy access. Worst example I can give is the A/C compressor died on the S5, annoying but I accept it as maintenance after 11 years in service. On a truck you probably have to loosen a belt and a few bolts then swap in the new one. On the V8 Audi the compressor is along side the engine and required service position which is removing the front of the car back to the engine (sounds daunting but actually easy as it was designed for this ) and supporting the engine while dropping the subframe down to get to the compressor. Labor would have been killer. I did it in the garage on jack stands over 2 mornings. But don't worry about that, with the inline six most everything you'd ever need to service is easy to access. I just happen to have a car which was folded around around a giant transaxle and engine.

[rwsaunders]

Skip the 2011 and go for this one...

https://www.paulmillervw.com/exotic-used/BMW/2015-BMW-328i+xDrive-bernardsville-nj-c79000980a0d0cc71a38a4b4eff33c4a.htm

[woolly]

Skip the 2011 and go for this one...



https://www.paulmillervw.com/exotic-used/BMW/2015-BMW-328i+xDrive-bernardsville-nj-c79000980a0d0cc71a38a4b4eff33c4a.htm



Why? I’d rather have the 6-cylinder engine & better steering of the other one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Ken Robb]

I had that itch many years ago. Got a bike instead. Motorbike, that is.

https://www.cycleworld.com/resizer/IVcVSWX8Y3OQE67SBWw0Tjtte_k=/1200x628/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bonnier.s3.amazonaws.com/public/EVUYD7XMQBFVOWA4KHNZ7XUIH4.jpg

GP Motorcycles in San Diego has the whole fleet of Husqvarna street-legal bikes available for test rides today. Of course, it is RAINING! :rolleyes:

[jpritchet74]

I have 3 friends that have had new / nearly new BMW's in the last 10 years and all were sold because of problems.

That being said - that price is cheap - so if you consider that the price of admission and are willing to pay for problems when you arise then do it.

This is from the guy who bought his wife a 2011 Land Rover LR4 about 3 years ago for $30k (new it was close to $60k). The wife loved it and even though I had read the horror stories about cost of ownership I bought it. It has been mostly problem free until a month ago - in that last month we have put $6k into it for new brakes, fixing a coolant leak, and electrical issues.

All worth it - she loves that vehicle.

[Robot870]

Nice wagon! But a BMW out of warranty is dicey......Parts are expensive and it will soon start falling apart.....Lots of little things -

[Hank Scorpio]

I had that itch many years ago. Got a bike instead. Motorbike, that is.

https://www.cycleworld.com/resizer/IVcVSWX8Y3OQE67SBWw0Tjtte_k=/1200x628/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bonnier.s3.amazonaws.com/public/EVUYD7XMQBFVOWA4KHNZ7XUIH4.jpg



95 YZF250, 96 CBR 900RR, 97 GSX-R 750, 99 Ducati Monster 900 SIE, 00 Aprilia Mille R, 01 RC51 and now 12 Zuma 125 gathering dust. That itch has been more than scratched and i have the x-rays to prove it.

Didn't make it to the dealer yet today. Busy with Christmas trees, lights, tea parties and ballet impressions. Maybe later or next wednesday. Feeling sort of 50/50 still. This would be a third car so mainly a weekend driver. Was hunting for a 92-95 Landcruiser but all the ones in my price range are pretty shagged out and as mentioned before no garage to do proper restoration projects. The also have an All-road for $19 but it is on another lot.

As an aside is this typically a slow period fro dealers? I can't imagine there are that many people buying cars as gifts but in that zip the sky is the limit.

Thanks again for the responses!

[verticaldoug]

What? Are you about to turn 40? Go lay on the couch until the inch passes. Or watch the Marilyn Monroe flick 7 yr itch. just say'in

Don't be a knucklehead

[Robot870]

This ^

[jlwdm]

I had a couple of X5s as work cars, and the newer years are much softer in suspension and ride. The 2012 was much better to drive than the 2016 X5 M Sport.

I have friends who purchased an X5 M Sport the start of the summer and it went back to BMW under the Lemon Law.

Jeff

[dbnm]

I have a 2013 Volvo XC70 T6 wagon with the Polestar computer update.

Fast and unassuming. Some sort of AWD keeps in going in snow and mud.

Great highway car too.

[Ozz]

I picked up a 2017 X5 (just about every option available on it) about 2 mos ago (finally got rid of the 2003 Honda Pilot)….and love it....don't know why I didn't do it sooner, other than Honda was paid for, and only ever needed gas, oil, wipers and tires.

I wanted a nice car, and wanted to finally get one. Price was well within budget (~$45K) and then added winter tires/wheels and extended warranty stuff.

Time will tell if it was a good decision, but from a driving perspective it totally was!

I say go for it!

sidenote: I was given a 340i M as a loaner while the dealership finished up some detailing and installed winter tires.....boy, that was fun. Took me about 5 minutes to know I should never own one. Best part was that it was "sunset orange" or something....totally flashy. My wife hated it. :rolleyes:

[Hank Scorpio]

What? Are you about to turn 40? Go lay on the couch until the inch passes. Or watch the Marilyn Monroe flick 7 yr itch. just say'in

Don't be a knucklehead

Even worse 46 this February.

[pcxmbfj]

I've had four BMW's starting with the last model Z3 roadster, then 300's for the wife.
The 330i is in the garage with a tad under 90,000 miles and is still timely IMO.
Wish I still had the Z3.

[dsimon]

Outback has more room in the cargo/ cheaper to repair even though I loath the CVT transmission its still cheaper than the Beammer we all have our Unicorns. For me its landrovers. Discoverys and LR3 man there expensive when they break. and beside Im sure you owe less on the Outback

[dsimon]

I agree I have a 2014 and its amazing

I have a 2013 Volvo XC70 T6 wagon with the Polestar computer update.

Fast and unassuming. Some sort of AWD keeps in going in snow and mud.

Great highway car too.

[pjm]

The BMW turbo 4 does make impressive power, but clatters like a diesel at idle, and sounds like a Honda Civic when accelerating. Sounds nowhere near as good as the inline 6 with its beautiful mechanical wail. Add the BMW performance exhaust, and its magical.

[NYCfixie]

never mind.

[jamesau]

This would be a third car so mainly a weekend driver.

If you're looking to add to the stable for weekend excitement, you might consider something more narrowly focused/fun than that 3. That car will be capable, versatile, and refined, but not terribly exciting. (And I've owned several 3-series incarnations over the years).

[54ny77]

a used 3 series bmw is an annuity: for your local mechanic.

once they go over 100k or so miles, get ready to bend over when presented with the parts invoices (plural, 'cause that's what you'll be getting used to).

[rice rocket]

That being said - that price is cheap - so if you consider that the price of admission and are willing to pay for problems when you arise then do it.


Consider why it's cheap. If you think they just put up a bargain so it'll "move", think again. :)

[summilux]

I had the sedan version of that 328 and loved it. Mine was an '07 and we put almost 300K km on in when we sold it. Things to like are the naturally aspirated inline six and the hydraulic steering. These make for beautiful power delivery up to redline and fantastic steering feel. Things not to like are water pumps that die somewhere around the 100K km mark. Treat the water pump like a wear item. Also, the engine leaks oil from three places: oil filter housing, valve cover gasket and oil pan. The oil filter housing gasket is easy to replace. The valve cover gasket is a 3 hour-ish DIY job. The oil pan gasket is a major PIA (~$1000 at a shop). You must keep up on regular oil changes. Not doing so causes the VANOS solenoid in the engine to gum up and stall the car at random stops.

This is a fun to drive car that will cost some money in annual repair. I'd budget $1K a year or so, more if you don't do your own work.

[tv_vt]

Skip the 2011 and go for this one...

https://www.paulmillervw.com/exotic-used/BMW/2015-BMW-328i+xDrive-bernardsville-nj-c79000980a0d0cc71a38a4b4eff33c4a.htm

Possibly agree. If you go to the dealer, do check this one out too! Both automatics, this one much newer - less time for things to break down. Decent price and mileage too. More money up front, yes. But over a few years, maybe a lot less $ out of pocket.

[grateful]

Long time BMW aficionado (since I bought my first, an 89 325is, been chasing the feeling that car gave me since).

I also love wagons. I drove a 528iT manual for a time. That was the perfect vehicle for an active lifestyle. Cavernous, low enough for a roof rack, drove like a sports sedan. Brilliant.

My opinion is that BMW makes fine cars that no longer have a sporting disposition at the top of their design requirements. I feel (as do others according to the World Wide Web) that this personality switch came after the e90 3 series.

Once again this is just my opinion based on my personal preferences.

[Gummee]

Long time BMW aficionado (since I bought my first, an 89 325is, been chasing the feeling that car gave me since).

I also love wagons. I drove a 528iT manual for a time. That was the perfect vehicle for an active lifestyle. Cavernous, low enough for a roof rack, drove like a sports sedan. Brilliant.

My opinion is that BMW makes fine cars that no longer have a sporting disposition at the top of their design requirements. I feel (as do others according to the World Wide Web) that this personality switch came after the e90 3 series.

Once again this is just my opinion based on my personal preferences.

I had an 02 328i and now have an 04 X3. Both manuals. :banana:

Parts can be spendy.
Labor can be spendy

Pretty much everything has some kind of 'how to' online at either one of the BMW forums or youtube. :nod

...but... I haven't found anything like the driving experience yet so go for it!

M

[572cv]

Well, we have a 2011 328ix wagon with a six speed manual. We got it 2nd hand at 48k, it now has 130k. So this is perhaps a useful data point. It has had regular basic maintenance, but has not required anything extraordinary. It is not a cheap car to own, but we had that pretty clear when we bought it. It drives wonderfully, is always responsive, basically a machine that is a joy to use. I would buy one again, if we needed it, in a heartbeat.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jamesdak]

My opinion is that BMW makes fine cars that no longer have a sporting disposition at the top of their design requirements. I feel (as do others according to the World Wide Web) that this personality switch came after the e90 3 series.



Hmmm... I don't know. Still plenty of sport there it seems. I had a E46 330ci ZHP which was the maxed 3 series short of an M3. Great car, loved it to pieces.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/111010031.jpg

But my 2016 340i M Sport is a better sports car in everyway. Even though it doesn't have my preferred Michelin Pilot tires on it...yet. Pretty much top model again short of an M3.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/169309303.jpg

[Ralph]

I have a 8 year old Ford product, 8 year old Honda product, and 11 year old Ford product sitting in my garage now. Nothing hardly ever goes wrong with them, Alternator on the 11 year old last month, is about it. Just normal maintenance stuff. I have done brakes on the 11 year old.

My son has a 3 series Coupe. Last year of the non turbo six. He just loves that car. It does drive great. He got rid of the run flats. Still doesn't have a spare though. Counts on AAA if necessary. Recently lost his serpentine belt.....oil leak from filter gasket. Stranded him late at night....had to call me to get him....had to tow car to garage. Expecting valve cover leak next. Expensive to maintain car.....more than I spend on my 3 cars.

But....he wouldn't trade his for my 3 boring cars. I would love to have a 5 series....if I drove more, just can't justify the cost for a rapidly depreciating and expensive to maintain vehicle. To me that's the decision. Nothing negative about the car.

[jamesdak]

Consider why it's cheap. If you think they just put up a bargain so it'll "move", think again. :)

This is one thing "against" BMW's and buying new. Their value drops quickly.

My CPO 2016 with only 10,000 miles was almost 1/2 the MSRP when new. Got it this year. It did help that it was one of the worse new buys for these since it would have been only $3000 less than a M3 itself. So not a high demand new vehicle optioned like it was.

[jamesdak]

I have a 8 year old Ford product, 8 year old Honda product, and 11 year old Ford product sitting in my garage now. Nothing hardly ever goes wrong with them,


My son has put over $6000 in his Element over the past two years. That's with me doing about 1/2 of the work on it myself to save him labor costs. And we had it gone over with a fine tooth comb by the dealer before buying it used and fixed what was found. I don't know why everyone brags about Honda's as this is the biggest POS anyone in my family has owned. I mean the starter went bad and at first I was like, no problem. Two or three bolts, unplug, pull off, and replace. 30 minutes top, right? NOPE! Honda is so brilliant they bury the starter inside the intake manifold for the car. It's a special kind of engineer that thinks that's a good idea. BMW's on the other hand are a cinch to work on in my experience over the years. And when you replace something it stays fixed. I wish the Element was the same way. Multiple VNT solenoids, rear struts blown again, ignition switch, etc, etc. Sad thing is I love the concept behind the Element and wanted one for myself until our experience with them.

Just thought I'd put out that opposing view.

[gbcoupe]

I'm guessing you're looking for a mostly weekend car that can haul kids and house crap, while still being comfortable and fun to drive. Except for being an automatic, I think you're on the right track. If the car fits your needs/wants and checks out okay... go for it.

Wife has a 2013 X1. While we did have some issues right after purchase, nothing much since.

My 99 M Coupe has never had any problems other than wear and tear in 15 years of ownership.

Get a good roof rack. Obviously for bikes, but you can also carry lumber and other large items that won't fit inside. Done this on my MINI many times. Hell, I brought home a refrigerator on top of my VW Golf years ago. Sorry, no pics of that.

[jamesdak]

^ 99 M coupe.... The most beautiful ugly car in the world. One day I've got to have one. :banana::banana::banana::banana:

[grateful]

99 M Coupe, pics please. One of my favs. Is it Estoril Blue?


If I needed space I would be in a Macan. Tried to get the wife to go look at one today (for her ������) as we take her car when we drive together. No go.

[Ralph]

My son has put over $6000 in his Element over the past two years. That's with me doing about 1/2 of the work on it myself to save him labor costs. And we had it gone over with a fine tooth comb by the dealer before buying it used and fixed what was found. I don't know why everyone brags about Honda's as this is the biggest POS anyone in my family has owned. I mean the starter went bad and at first I was like, no problem. Two or three bolts, unplug, pull off, and replace. 30 minutes top, right? NOPE! Honda is so brilliant they bury the starter inside the intake manifold for the car. It's a special kind of engineer that thinks that's a good idea. BMW's on the other hand are a cinch to work on in my experience over the years. And when you replace something it stays fixed. I wish the Element was the same way. Multiple VNT solenoids, rear struts blown again, ignition switch, etc, etc. Sad thing is I love the concept behind the Element and wanted one for myself until our experience with them.

Just thought I'd put out that opposing view.

I had a 2010 Element. Loved the concept....hated the car also. In my case....couldn't ever get comfortable. Seat belt came out of the top of the seat.....not the pillar. Terrible design.

I'm not knocking any BMW. Just saying you will spend more to maintain them. But you get driving satisfaction. Good trade off for some, not for others. One has to make that decision for himself.

Some on here are talking about the ownership of vehicles 15-20 years old. Not very pertinent to newer vehicles of any make.

[seattledl]

Second favorite BMW to my '72 tii is my '00 M5.

I'm the second and fourth owner (sold it for a few year fling with a P car and bought back from a friend). The only thing it's really needed in 75k miles has been batteries and a fuel pump!

...and I've decided to sell it again, replacing it with something way less practical, less safe, less reliable and less powerful, and unfortunately with no room for a bike rack.

[grateful]

Yes, they still make drivers cars for those who pay attention.It just seems that the sporting demeanor is no longer the corporate mantra for the entire line, not just a select few.

There was a time when a BMW was the top drivers car regardless of the segment. That is no longer the case.

Your E46 and your F30 are beautiful.

Hmmm... I don't know. Still plenty of sport there it seems. I had a E46 330ci ZHP which was the maxed 3 series short of an M3. Great car, loved it to pieces.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/111010031.jpg

But my 2016 340i M Sport is a better sports car in everyway. Even though it doesn't have my preferred Michelin Pilot tires on it...yet. Pretty much top model again short of an M3.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/169309303.jpg

[gbcoupe]

^ 99 M coupe.... The most beautiful ugly car in the world. One day I've got to have one. :banana::banana::banana::banana:

I get it, but I don't think it's ugly one bit. My only regret is not buying the 2002 LSB MCoupe that was at the dealership (at a good discount) when I went to pick up my 1st MINI.

[gbcoupe]

99 M Coupe, pics please. One of my favs. Is it Estoril Blue?


If I needed space I would be in a Macan. Tried to get the wife to go look at one today (for her ������) as we take her car when we drive together. No go.

It's in hibernation right now. Plugged in and under cover in the garage. Arctic silver (maybe boring, but I like it) with black and blue interior.

[grateful]

Tell me more about your M5, that is a grail car for me.

Second favorite BMW to my '72 tii is my '00 M5.

I'm the second and fourth owner (sold it for a few year fling with a P car and bought back from a friend). The only thing it's really needed in 75k miles has been batteries and a fuel pump!

...and I've decided to sell it again, replacing it with something way less practical, less safe, less reliable and less powerful, and unfortunately with no room for a bike rack.

[jamesdak]

Second favorite BMW to my '72 tii is my '00 M5.



My first was a 2002ti, such a blast to drive in Germany. This baby was heavy modded when I got it and scary fast for the times.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/110436221.jpg

[gbcoupe]

My first was a 2002ti, such a blast to drive in Germany. This baby was heavy modded when I got it and scary fast for the times.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/110436221.jpg

This thread is getting a little derailed. That said, very nice! ^

[jamesdak]

I get it, but I don't think it's ugly one bit. My only regret is not buying the 2002 LSB MCoupe that was at the dealership (at a good discount) when I went to pick up my 1st MINI.


Oh yeah.... nothing ugly about it to me either. My all time favorite BMW body. But ugly seems to be how many referred to them as back in the day. They were wrong, of course.

[bfd]

^ 99 M coupe.... The most beautiful ugly car in the world. One day I've got to have one. :banana::banana::banana::banana:

You mean one of these:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5454077500_4770e6ecb1_b.jpg

Good Luck!

[jamesdak]

You mean one of these:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5454077500_4770e6ecb1_b.jpg

Good Luck!

OMG!!!!!! Ya'll excuse me....I need a moment alone.

[gbcoupe]

You mean one of these:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5454077500_4770e6ecb1_b.jpg

Good Luck!

That's a Euro market model.

Very fun and amazingly practical minus the lack of rear seats (works for me).
They have a pull up net that separates the hatch and front. My dogs used to ride in the back. Both 45 pounders. Yes cages would have been safer, but it worked out well.

[bfd]

That's a Euro market model.

Very fun and amazingly practical minus the lack of rear seats (works for me).
They have a pull up net that separates the hatch and front. My dogs used to ride in the back. Both 45 pounders. Yes cages would have been safer, but it worked out well.
https://photos.classiccars.com/cc-temp/listing/121/9195/16415586-1999-bmw-m-coupe-std.jpg

I think this is an American version with what looks like a cage in it:

https://photos.classiccars.com/cc-temp/listing/121/9195/16415586-1999-bmw-m-coupe-std.jpg

[gbcoupe]

https://photos.classiccars.com/cc-temp/listing/121/9195/16415586-1999-bmw-m-coupe-std.jpg

I think this is an American version with what looks like a cage in it:

https://photos.classiccars.com/cc-temp/listing/121/9195/16415586-1999-bmw-m-coupe-std.jpg

Yup, that's it. Proper wheels too.
While I don't have one for mine, you can add a roof rack.

[earlfoss]

My past 2 vehicles were BMWs. I thought they were pretty good drivers, and maintenance wasn't terrible until I crossed the 120,000mi barrier. At that point both vehicles developed a habit of surprising me with a $500-$900 repair about every 1.5 months despite my being on top of maintenance.

I just got a 2017 Audi S3, and I have to say that the interior is WAY nicer. So far I'm really enjoying it. I had driven my friend's M3 Competition, and that vehicle is amazing and violently fast. I love it but the price tag was way too high for me.

At some point I'll get a used 911. Not practical as a daily driver but I must have one!

[djg]

Hmmm... I don't know. Still plenty of sport there it seems. I had a E46 330ci ZHP which was the maxed 3 series short of an M3. Great car, loved it to pieces.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/111010031.jpg

But my 2016 340i M Sport is a better sports car in everyway. Even though it doesn't have my preferred Michelin Pilot tires on it...yet. Pretty much top model again short of an M3.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/169309303.jpg

I had an E46 M3 (2006) -- loved that car and hated to sell it (for reasons not at all the car's fault) early this year.

And, FWIW, did not find it unreliable.

My 2014 X3 35i is definitely not better in every way -- not that it's supposed to be a sports coupe -- but it does have practical advantages in many contexts, and even the smallish SUV seems recognizably a bimmer.

[OtayBW]

Forget the car. This is my BMW problem....:eek: :banana:

[RFC]

My first was a 2002ti, such a blast to drive in Germany. This baby was heavy modded when I got it and scary fast for the times.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/110436221.jpg

Now that's what a BMW should look like. 20 years ago, the German brands each had their own distinct look, i.e., the BMW overbite. Now, the designs have melted in to one ubiquitous look trending towards Tesla.

My present ride. Just love the look and the monster V-8 5 liter. It roars. It's my Miami Vice car.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33763232268_1401aeaf35_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TrxoEh)IMG_6167 (https://flic.kr/p/TrxoEh) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

And for S&G, an OT gratuitous shot of my "kit." Just came across the photo while I was looking for the MB pic.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48648162948_baccb01b63_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h7SxY9)IMG_6315r (https://flic.kr/p/2h7SxY9) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

[bfd]

I had an E46 M3 (2006) -- loved that car and hated to sell it (for reasons not at all the car's fault) early this year.

And, FWIW, did not find it unreliable.

My 2014 X3 35i is definitely not better in every way -- not that it's supposed to be a sports coupe -- but it does have practical advantages in many contexts, and even the smallish SUV seems recognizably a bimmer.

Thanks! As a former BMW owner, had my old E34 535i for 24 yrs, I was contemplating a X335i or X328i. My buddy has a 2015 X328i and loves it. Says it is fun to drive and hasn't required much work, yet. But then another friend's daughter was getting rid of her 2015 Lexus IS350 f sport with 38k miles for $20k?! I couldn't pass it up! Except for the stupid mouse thing in the car it has been excellent! Can't praise the car enough. But since you appear to want a bimmer, I go for it! An X335i or 328i would be a good choice. Just find a good indy mechanic and follow the old school maintenance schedule. Good Luck!

[jlwdm]

I love the M Coupe. I run with M Coupes once in a while at the track in HPDE.

Jeff

[Germany_chris]

I have a 2013 1er and it’s been great but if I were in the states I just wouldn’t buy a BMW no matter the deal especially an 8 year old BMW

[gbcoupe]

I have a 2013 1er and it’s been great but if I were in the states I just wouldn’t buy a BMW no matter the deal especially an 8 year old BMW

If your 1er is a hatchback (or an M), I'd kindly take it off your hands :)
You can have my wife's X1. Although she might protest...

[Germany_chris]

If your 1er is a hatchback (or an M), I'd kindly take it off your hands :)
You can have my wife's X1. Although she might protest...

The 1er is a 4dr hatch and my wife’s, she’ll likely trade it for an x1 this year. :help:

[gbcoupe]

The 1er is a 4dr hatch and my wife’s, she’ll likely trade it for an x1 this year. :help:

2 door 1 series hatch would be my vote. Jealous! BMW gave up on USA hatches years ago. Can't really blame them. They didn't sell. Liked my 318ti and love my M Coupe! Only non hatch I've ever owned was a little Toyota pickup. Hatch backs are way more useful and in my opinion, much better looking.

[seattledl]

Tell me more about your M5, that is a grail car for me.


Was definitely one for me too. The E39 M5 is pretty much everything that has been written about it, it's a beast. I had a 996 turbo, but sold it to go back to the M5. Smooth, powerful and incredible to drive. They're still reasonably priced, but look to be on the rise.

75k miles, black with carmel interior, never tracked/wrecked, some minor modifications - bluetooth with interior mic for calls, short shift, angel eyes, larger nav screen, beastpower sway bar mounts, privacy shades (factory).

It's in great shape and I'd have no trouble selling it to a friend.

Shoot me a message if you're interested, I have plenty of pics and happy to answer any questions at all.

[bfd]

BMW gave up on USA hatches years ago.

This statement is ridiculous. All X series cars have hatchbacks! What BMW didn’t want to do was bring in a car under $50k so Americans never got the 1 series. Of course, their justification was they didn’t have time to design the 1 series for American bumpers and catalytic converters, which is hogwash. Too bad as I would have loved to get a 1 series!

BMW has bigger problems now as it’s struggling to make a BEV that can compete with Tesla. Their 3 series was their bread and butter car and is now selling poorly. You should be able to find used ones cheap....Good Luck!

[zap]

My first was a 2002ti, such a blast to drive in Germany. This baby was heavy modded when I got it and scary fast for the times.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/110436221.jpg

I'm sure it was one heck of a car. BMW's were proper enthusiast motor cars back then and for a few years after that.

But I have to ask......about the M1....

[mulp]

wow lots of great information in this thread!

[Gummee]

wow lots of great information in this thread!

You mis-spelled 'biases' there tough guy

M

[bfd]

This statement is ridiculous. All X series cars have hatchbacks! What BMW didn’t want to do was bring in a car under $50k so Americans never got the 1 series. Of course, their justification was they didn’t have time to design the 1 series for American bumpers and catalytic converters, which is hogwash. Too bad as I would have loved to get a 1 series!

BMW has bigger problems now as it’s struggling to make a BEV that can compete with Tesla. Their 3 series was their bread and butter car and is now selling poorly. You should be able to find used ones cheap....Good Luck!

Further, all their "4 door coupes" and "GTs" have hatchback too. BMW is so full of it.

[mulp]

You mis-spelled 'biases' there tough guy

M

Mom always said I was too gullible!

[glepore]

Was definitely one for me too. The E39 M5 is pretty much everything that has been written about it, it's a beast. I had a 996 turbo, but sold it to go back to the M5. Smooth, powerful and incredible to drive. They're still reasonably priced, but look to be on the rise.

75k miles, black with carmel interior, never tracked/wrecked, some minor modifications - bluetooth with interior mic for calls, short shift, angel eyes, larger nav screen, beastpower sway bar mounts, privacy shades (factory).

It's in great shape and I'd have no trouble selling it to a friend.

Shoot me a message if you're interested, I have plenty of pics and happy to answer any questions at all.

Had a black/carmel e39 M5. Great color combo. I liked it, but a) the small gas tank drove me nuts and b) it was a beast of burden compared to my all time favorite car, an E28 m5. I sold the e28 to buy a 911 targa, but wish I coulda kept it.

[jamesdak]

I'm sure it was one heck of a car. BMW's were proper enthusiast motor cars back then and for a few years after that.

But I have to ask......about the M1....


LOL, don't blame me. It was there when I got the car off another G.I. When I got it I was told it was a 1972 2002 body with a 1974 2002ti engine. Later when we had to tear into the engine to try and fix what we expected was a blown head gasket we found a mystery. As we tore it down we found the head had been shaved, ported, and polished. We also found domed pistons in the block to raise compression. The head scratching really started though when the proper head gasket didn't match up to the block. Local dealership got with the home office and after about a month or so we got a response back. The engine was from some kind of 70's race program and they had no clue how it wound up in this car. Long story short, the car was scrapped for parts since we still had not found what was cracked and the body was really rough with rust at spots too.

Hard to tell in this picture but the driver's seat was a Recaro with a metal shell and adjustments were done via bolt/lock bolt setup. Also had a 5 point harness in it. I weighed around 140 those days and that seat held me tight. It was only a 4 speed manual but man was it fast. Would run 120 mph on the autobahn all day but that was also pretty close to the top end. Super quick from a stop though which I imagine was partly due to gearing.

[benb]

My Father has the exact same car the OP is looking at. Not sure the exact year but it's the same car, same generation.

I would say:
- Grass is greener on the other side, this is not that exciting of a car. It might only look exciting cause you have an Outback right now. (Note, I have the same Outback) . Maybe more exciting if you live somewhere where BMW 3-series are not as common as Hondas and Hyundais. Here everyone has them, they have 0 prestige. Not that fast, not that efficient, not that big, and here everyone is stuck in the traffic jam no matter what kind of car you have.

- This car is a better buy when you get a CPO with barely any miles on it that includes a lot of warranty/factory maintenance plan still in effect.

My father's has had a lot of work. Engine has been fine but routine maintenance items seem to need to be done WAY more often then they should for a car of it's modest performance. Think brakes needing to get done 3X more often than your Outback, lots of little things breaking. Expensive Tire changes.

My Father almost got trapped in his car recently.. the overly complicated door/keyless entry stuff failed.

These cars will get you every time if you're coming out of something boring and reliable & frugal. My Dad was driving a ton for work and billing the miles.. he went SUV -> Prius. Saved himself a ton of money. Felt like he was emasculated driving the Prius and after about 200k got the BMW. Likes the BMW, knows it costs a zillion dollars if he's driving for work. Tries to work from home as much as possible now. (He's very close to retirement)

Cars don't make your life exciting or make you young again.. that is all marketing.

Only way cars powered by gas become fun for me again is:
- My Kid grows up and moves out
- Not stuck in the daily grind commute
- Get to get out of my area on weekends, road trips, etc.. again like I did when I was single

I am hoping eventually getting an electric car (hopefully one more performant than a BMW 3-series) will add some excitement since at least I won't feel guilty stuck in all the traffic all the time and the maintenance & gas will be cheap.

[jamesdak]

Reading so many of the dreary, negative posts here sort of makes me sad for some people. Glad I live life everyday. Of course I chose to come back out west and live vs staying on the east coast in the D.C Metro area and making a ton of money. Quality of life rules over making money. My drive is an experience every day and reading all these reinforces that I made the right choice years ago.

The road in the background of this picture that's going up the mountain is part of my work drive when I chose to take the mountain route vs the canyon route. Perfect road to fully experience a BMW on.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/98662503.jpg

[cinema]

Lol. This car is a money pit. There. Thats it. Ask me how i know...

[jlwdm]

...


Cars don't make your life exciting or make you young again.. that is all marketing.

...

I drive a lot and I have made a decision to drive exciting, fun cars.

Jeff

[KarlC]

My Father has the exact same car the OP is looking at. Not sure the exact year but it's the same car, same generation.

I would say:
- Grass is greener on the other side, this is not that exciting of a car. It might only look exciting cause you have an Outback right now. (Note, I have the same Outback) . Maybe more exciting if you live somewhere where BMW 3-series are not as common as Hondas and Hyundais. Here everyone has them, they have 0 prestige. Not that fast, not that efficient, not that big, and here everyone is stuck in the traffic jam no matter what kind of car you have.

- This car is a better buy when you get a CPO with barely any miles on it that includes a lot of warranty/factory maintenance plan still in effect.

My father's has had a lot of work. Engine has been fine but routine maintenance items seem to need to be done WAY more often then they should for a car of it's modest performance. Think brakes needing to get done 3X more often than your Outback, lots of little things breaking. Expensive Tire changes.

My Father almost got trapped in his car recently.. the overly complicated door/keyless entry stuff failed.

These cars will get you every time if you're coming out of something boring and reliable & frugal. My Dad was driving a ton for work and billing the miles.. he went SUV -> Prius. Saved himself a ton of money. Felt like he was emasculated driving the Prius and after about 200k got the BMW. Likes the BMW, knows it costs a zillion dollars if he's driving for work. Tries to work from home as much as possible now. (He's very close to retirement)

Cars don't make your life exciting or make you young again.. that is all marketing.

Only way cars powered by gas become fun for me again is:
- My Kid grows up and moves out
- Not stuck in the daily grind commute
- Get to get out of my area on weekends, road trips, etc.. again like I did when I was single

I am hoping eventually getting an electric car (hopefully one more performant than a BMW 3-series) will add some excitement since at least I won't feel guilty stuck in all the traffic all the time and the maintenance & gas will be cheap.

Im a car guy, always have been.
My dad was a mechanic, as a boy I saved up and bought my 1st project car when I was 14, cars have always been a fun part of my life.

My wife has been wanting a smaller ezer to live with car, she has been driving BMW 7s and now drives a newer Jag XJ, so nice full size cars.

We drove a lot of nice small cars, and in the end bought a used BMW i3. Its fun to drive (Its BMW fastest 0-30 car), has lots of room inside for its size, and looks to be very cheep to own and maintain.

I did not plan on really liking EV cars, but after driving this i3 for a couple of weeks, gas cars feel so crude.

If you can get past the i3 quirky looks and try one, Ill bet you will like it.

.

[mtechnica]

Are you prepared to work on the car yourself? If not I would seriously consider getting a Toyota or Mazda of some kind instead. That particular BMW is a nice car but as others have said it’s not particularly high performance although as far as fun and driving feel it’s head and shoulders above a Subaru. Unless you need AWD I’d be looking for a RWD model and possibly a higher performance variant. With BMW it seems like the cheap ones need the same amount of maintenance as higher performance ones.

I’ve been driving the same E36 M3 since it was less than a 10 year old car so you could argue that I’m biased towards BMW, however my good friend has a lot of newer ones in his family and they have been more work to keep up than a Toyota or something. Again they aren’t necessarily unreliable but you can’t neglect them, and parts will cost more than other cars. If cost isn’t a big deal I’d consider a higher performance version imho so to me a standard normally aspirated 3 series is all of the work with not much of the fun. If you can swing it the newer turbo cars are very powerful and get good MPG so I’d be looking at something like that. My friend and I rented a new 540i and it was a beast.

I’m not trying to be negative at all but that’s my only argument as far as trying to talk you out of buying it. I’d say drive it and if you like it (you will coming from a Subaru) then get it - just be aware of what you’re potentially getting yourself into. Take some of the advice in this thread with a grain of salt - for example the E39 M5. My good friend has had one for a while now and it is NOT a cheap car to maintain despite what some may try to tell you. It’s worth it though considering how it drives, but I wouldn’t be willing to put the same level of effort into something that’s basically a normal car but with better driving feel.

A good alternative to BMW would be a Mazda. They have the best driving feel of the Japanese brands and approach BMW levels of sportiness while costing a lot less overall.

[benb]

Reading so many of the dreary, negative posts here sort of makes me sad for some people. Glad I live life everyday. Of course I chose to come back out west and live vs staying on the east coast in the D.C Metro area and making a ton of money. Quality of life rules over making money. My drive is an experience every day and reading all these reinforces that I made the right choice years ago.

The road in the background of this picture that's going up the mountain is part of my work drive when I chose to take the mountain route vs the canyon route. Perfect road to fully experience a BMW on.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/98662503.jpg

If you think the car you own is living life that's buying the marketing. There are lots of ways to enjoy life that are more fun for a lot of us than a car.

All those roads.. way more fun on a bicycle or a motorcycle than any BMW car.

Let's also put it this way. I don't really think the 3-series has anywhere near the fun factor for me to balance out the issue that it'd probably spend more days in the shop, and I'd have to drive further away to get it serviced than the cars I've owned. A day with the car in the shop is generally a day I'm not going to "live life". Cause if I have to take the car to the shop usually what gets sacrificed is stuff like going for a bike ride, the stuff that actually brings enjoyment!

[p nut]

If you think the car you own is living life that's buying the marketing. There are lots of ways to enjoy life that are more fun for a lot of us than a car.

All those roads.. way more fun on a bicycle or a motorcycle than any BMW car.

Let's also put it this way. I don't really think the 3-series has anywhere near the fun factor for me to balance out the issue that it'd probably spend more days in the shop, and I'd have to drive further away to get it serviced than the cars I've owned. A day with the car in the shop is generally a day I'm not going to "live life". Cause if I have to take the car to the shop usually what gets sacrificed is stuff like going for a bike ride, the stuff that actually brings enjoyment!

I've ran and skied those mountains. Now THAT is living life!

[Ralph]

Does the car you are looking at have a spare tire?

[mtechnica]

If you think the car you own is living life that's buying the marketing. There are lots of ways to enjoy life that are more fun for a lot of us than a car.

All those roads.. way more fun on a bicycle or a motorcycle than any BMW car.

Let's also put it this way. I don't really think the 3-series has anywhere near the fun factor for me to balance out the issue that it'd probably spend more days in the shop, and I'd have to drive further away to get it serviced than the cars I've owned. A day with the car in the shop is generally a day I'm not going to "live life". Cause if I have to take the car to the shop usually what gets sacrificed is stuff like going for a bike ride, the stuff that actually brings enjoyment!

Hmm I’d take driving those roads in an Alfa 4C over a motorcycle or bicycle but that’s just me. There are fun cars out there my dude and some of them are even pretty reliable. That said I don’t consider an automatic station wagon a sports car but I digress.

[benb]

Hmm I’d take driving those roads in an Alfa 4C over a motorcycle or bicycle but that’s just me. There are fun cars out there my dude and some of them are even pretty reliable. That said I don’t consider an automatic station wagon a sports car but I digress.

That's odd for someone on this site.

Different perspectives. 100% honest I'd rather ride a bicycle or motorcycle through the mountains than even cars a lot more fun than an Alfa. (Like say an all expenses/maintenance paid Ferrari.)

Not everyone buys into the car thing. No matter how "fun" the car is you're still sitting on your duff for the day. There's a reason they get called "cages".

Now I don't really have the money/want to retire some day but owning a race car and taking it to the track I would consider totally different... and the FUN:PITA ratio there would be totally different. But for the price of the BMWs that actually stretch into the really fun zone (M3 at minimum) a dedicated track car starts sounding pretty good to me.

[Blue Jays]

I wonder if the OP made a decision about this car?

[jamesdak]

If you think the car you own is living life that's buying the marketing. There are lots of ways to enjoy life that are more fun for a lot of us than a car.

All those roads.. way more fun on a bicycle or a motorcycle than any BMW car.

Let's also put it this way. I don't really think the 3-series has anywhere near the fun factor for me to balance out the issue that it'd probably spend more days in the shop, and I'd have to drive further away to get it serviced than the cars I've owned. A day with the car in the shop is generally a day I'm not going to "live life". Cause if I have to take the car to the shop usually what gets sacrificed is stuff like going for a bike ride, the stuff that actually brings enjoyment!

LOL, really. So I could say the same about the bike you own and ride. :p

But come on, if driving doesn't count as an experience for you and part of living life then you'll never see things my way and we won't agree. It's all good.

It's all in the experience. Oh, and biking that is a blast. Do it all the time. Although coming back down is a WHOLE LOT more fun than going up, LOL! Still trying to beat 55.4 mph on the way back down that but haven't gotten there yet.

I've yet to have any day where either of my 3 series Bimmers left me hanging. The 5 years with me 330ci saw no trips to a mechanic, I did the normal maintenance myself. And so far none with the 340i. If it does need work I've got a small indy shop right by the house that works on all sorts of foreign cars. So take it in, walk home, and get on bike, get in truck, or whatever.

[bfd]

I did not plan on really liking EV cars, but after driving this i3 for a couple of weeks, gas cars feel so crude.

If you can get past the i3 quirky looks and try one, Ill bet you will like it.

.

Sorry, but if you want an EV, get the Tesla Model 3! Better performance as in faster, more range and maybe most importantly, the fastest charging network available, all for about the same price as the i3. And Tesla is better looking too!

Just read an article on the new Mustang Mach E, using Electrify America level 3 charger, assuming you can find one, it gets 47 miles of range in 10 minutes. In contrast, the Tesla Superchargers v.3, which are now being rolled out, will give you 151 miles in 15 minutes....that’s amazingly fast! And Tesla charging is supposedly 1/3 the cost too! Of course, YMMV! Good Luck!

[jamesdak]

That's odd for someone on this site.

Different perspectives. 100% honest I'd rather ride a bicycle or motorcycle through the mountains than even cars a lot more fun than an Alfa. (Like say an all expenses/maintenance paid Ferrari.)

Not everyone buys into the car thing. No matter how "fun" the car is you're still sitting on your duff for the day. There's a reason they get called "cages".

Now I don't really have the money/want to retire some day but owning a race car and taking it to the track I would consider totally different... and the FUN:PITA ratio there would be totally different. But for the price of the BMWs that actually stretch into the really fun zone (M3 at minimum) a dedicated track car starts sounding pretty good to me.

There's just different kinds of fun and you have to take 'em when you get them. To me that includes driving and no it doesn't need to be at the "exotic" level. Heck to date the most fun car I've had was my Mazda Miata. Totally impractical for the most part but if you don't catch yourself just grinning driving it then you have no soul at all. There have been a few Mazda's in the family and like mentioned by another poster early, they are a good choice for fun, reliable, and cheap to operate.

[tv_vt]

I wonder if the OP made a decision about this car?

Yeah, me too. We can quit with the tangential existential stuff for now. Life is always a work in progress anyway, isn't it? Maybe all this touches a little bit on how much risk-taking you want in your life. Buying a car that may cost a bit more in repairs to see what it's all about does not rate too high on my risk-taking scale.

Ah, now you got me going.

Hank, whaddya think about these 8 pages of drivel? Sway you either way?

[jamesdak]

Do it, do it, do it!!!!!!!!!! :banana::banana::banana:

[gbcoupe]

This statement is ridiculous. All X series cars have hatchbacks! What BMW didn’t want to do was bring in a car under $50k so Americans never got the 1 series. Of course, their justification was they didn’t have time to design the 1 series for American bumpers and catalytic converters, which is hogwash. Too bad as I would have loved to get a 1 series!

BMW has bigger problems now as it’s struggling to make a BEV that can compete with Tesla. Their 3 series was their bread and butter car and is now selling poorly. You should be able to find used ones cheap....Good Luck!

Yes, X series (and pretty much all SUV's) have a hatch back. But, the are called SUV's. Hatchback is another category of car. The 318ti had very poor USA sales, so the 1 series hatch was never brought over. The 1 series sedan was.

[gbcoupe]

I wonder if the OP made a decision about this car?

Has veered of the track a bit... that's normal around here, right?

[KarlC]

Sorry, but if you want an EV, get the Tesla Model 3! Better performance as in faster, more range and maybe most importantly, the fastest charging network available, all for about the same price as the i3. And Tesla is better looking too!

Just read an article on the new Mustang Mach E, using Electrify America level 3 charger, assuming you can find one, it gets 47 miles of range in 10 minutes. In contrast, the Tesla Superchargers v.3, which are now being rolled out, will give you 151 miles in 15 minutes....that’s amazingly fast! And Tesla charging is supposedly 1/3 the cost too! Of course, YMMV! Good Luck!

I dont like the numbers, I like to buy value, so we really never buy new.

You can get a REALLY low mile, top of the line used BMW i3 for 1/3 the price of a Tesla Model 3. Or you can get a new BMW i3 with all the discounts in the $25K range

I agree Tesla Model 3 has better performance, is faster and looks better in some ways. (I went thru a phase of 700-800hp cars, but found it mostly useless)

The BMW i3 REX model has good range, we have been using just the battery and only need to charge it every few days, also you can buy an adapter to use Tesla Fast chargers on the BMW i3 if you like.

We really have no need for the added range of a Tesla as 90% of the driving we will be doing is just around town and short day trips.

As with bikes we each have our own likes and needs, for us the price, small exterior size, large interior, quality, unique looks and design of the BMW i3 all wrap up to a nice package that we wanted to buy.

PS - I love the BMW i3 suicide doors and fold down seats, its so ez to get large items (bikes) in and out of it.

.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49196413427_3ce31e8764_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hXjtJB)

[bfd]

Yes, X series (and pretty much all SUV's) have a hatch back. But, the are called SUV's. Hatchback is another category of car. The 318ti had very poor USA sales, so the 1 series hatch was never brought over. The 1 series sedan was.

I don’t think you saw my follow up, BMW also put a hatchback on it “4 door coupes” and “GT,” those all sold in excess of $50k!

So BMW failure to bring over the 1 series hatchbacks was a money thing as it didn’t want to market a car in the US under $40-50k. Too bad as it so would have sold. Good Luck!

[grateful]

I have throughly enjoyed this drivel. I have a few passions and German automobiles are one of them.

It is awesome to communicate with others that I now realize share two of my passions (bikes and Cars designed with handling as the primary
focus).

I look forward to more drivel.

Brad



Yeah, me too. We can quit with the tangential existential stuff for now. Life is always a work in progress anyway, isn't it? Maybe all this touches a little bit on how much risk-taking you want in your life. Buying a car that may cost a bit more in repairs to see what it's all about does not rate too high on my risk-taking scale.

Ah, now you got me going.

Hank, whaddya think about these 8 pages of drivel? Sway you either way?

[gbcoupe]

I don’t think you saw my follow up, BMW also put a hatchback on it “4 door coupes” and “GT,” those all sold in excess of $50k!

So BMW failure to bring over the 1 series hatchbacks was a money thing as it didn’t want to market a car in the US under $40-50k. Too bad as it so would have sold. Good Luck!

I actually forgot about the GT.

With MINI filling their lower priced tier, can you blame them? Still disappointing that the 1 series coupes and sedans were available here but not the hatch.

I finally got a reliable MINI after 3 tries. Why did I go back after the 1st two? Nothing else really fit my needs/wants.

Anyway... OP, did you look at it... get it?

[bfd]

I dont like the numbers, I like to buy value, so we really never buy new.

You can get a REALLY low mile, top of the line used BMW i3 for 1/3 the price of a Tesla Model 3. Or you can get a new BMW i3 with all the discounts in the $25K range

I agree Tesla Model 3 has better performance, is faster and looks better in some ways. (I went thru a phase of 700-800hp cars, but found it mostly useless)

The BMW i3 REX model has good range, we have been using just the battery and only need to charge it every few days, also you can buy an adapter to use Tesla Fast chargers on the BMW i3 if you like.

We really have no need for the added range of a Tesla as 90% of the driving we will be doing is just around town and short day trips.

As with bikes we each have our own likes and needs, for us the price, small exterior size, large interior, quality, unique looks and design of the BMW i3 all wrap up to a nice package that we wanted to buy.

PS - I love the BMW i3 suicide doors and fold down seats, its so ez to get large items (bikes) in and out of it.

.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49196413427_3ce31e8764_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hXjtJB)

Cool. You're the exact driver BMW designed the car for. Although I suspect BMW wished it sold more i3s at retail price....Good Luck!

[Hank Scorpio]

This thread got pretty weedy but not so much in a bad or even unexpected way. There were enough warnings and negative anecdotes in here that made me pass on it. I decided to do the boring dad thing and up my TSP contribution and triple my daughter’s 529 contribution.

Oh well, I still have my bikes and that dopey scooter.

[gbcoupe]

This thread got pretty weedy but not so much in a bad or even unexpected way. There were enough warnings and negative anecdotes in here that made me pass on it. I decided to do the boring dad thing and up my TSP contribution and triple my daughter’s 529 contribution.

Oh well, I still have my bikes and that dopey scooter.

A BMW 507 contribution would be much better :cool:

[jamesdak]

This thread got pretty weedy but not so much in a bad or even unexpected way. There were enough warnings and negative anecdotes in here that made me pass on it. I decided to do the boring dad thing and up my TSP contribution and triple my daughter’s 529 contribution.

Oh well, I still have my bikes and that dopey scooter.

Well if it helps...... I held off on getting my second BMW until I had a really good stash set aside as well as the first retirement (military) done. I was young, dumb, and single when I had the first one. I too was really conservative with the money while raising the kids and hoping they'd meet the high school goals we set that would have given them a free ride to college. They didn't and now I finally get to reap the benefits of my hard work and aggressive savings. So, maybe in the future you can still scratch the Bimmer itch. ;)

[martl]

So I don't really need a new car but my current one, 2014 Subaru Outback, is about exciting to drive as a fart in church. I know, I know it is paid off, I am a dad, increase my contribution to her 529 account instead, blah blah, blah but coming from a history of sportbikes and sports cars I have that itch. So is this the money pit I am envisioning it may become? I am a decent mechanic and can handle most routine repairs/maintenance myself, large repairs wound have to go back to the shop as I don't have a garage at the present time.

Planning on going to take look tomorrow and test fit the child seat in it.

https://www.paulmillervw.com/exotic-used/BMW/2011-BMW-328i+xDrive-bernardsville-nj-608eec330a0d04fe230cb528c7fc0ec3.htm

No idea why it is listed as an exotic-used.

A BMW is full of fancy features that no one needs and that will stop working, driving you insane, once the car is older than 6-8 years. The xDrive is a sorry excuse for an AWD.

[jamesdak]

A BMW is full of fancy features that no one needs and that will stop working, driving you insane, once the car is older than 6-8 years. The xDrive is a sorry excuse for an AWD.

?? What are all those fancy features? I've always thought BMW's were lacking in frivolous stuff compared to others. Pretty much just basic cars. Heck, seems like my F-150 Lariat has more "fancy features" than my Bimmer, just sayin'.

Jeremy would be so dissapointed in you. "Now, it would not be fair to say that Jeremy Clarkson loves every car that BMW makes even though it might seem that way as he considers the brand as a godsend and everything they come up with is a gift." ;);)

[martl]

?? What are all those fancy features? I've always thought BMW's were lacking in frivolous stuff compared to others. Pretty much just basic cars. Heck, seems like my F-150 Lariat has more "fancy features" than my Bimmer, just sayin'.

Jeremy would be so dissapointed in you. "Now, it would not be fair to say that Jeremy Clarkson loves every car that BMW makes even though it might seem that way as he considers the brand as a godsend and everything they come up with is a gift." ;);)
i don't necessarily share my cousins views about specific cars... About bimmers, the last time i looked closely at all the available extras was when they were an option for amy next company car, and i stopped looking when i found out they charged extra for stuff like electric windows or adjustable steering columns in their premium 5-series.
As far as i know, they have features now like electronic handbrakes, auto-dimming right side rear view mirror, gesture control for the dispaly which for some reason requires me to also purchase the park control. It also can have ambient lights supporting 32 mio colour variants, small servo engines that help me shut the door, a car key that knows how much fuel is left, and little speakers that provide customized engine noise to the inhabitants. all vital i understand from the glossy print :D

My Subi, on the other hand, has a manual parking brake lever, and to dim the rear view mirror, i flip a mechanical switch, both of which will continue to do so regardless what firmware version is loaded. Of the small comforts i enjoy having on my side, the adaptive cruise control, lane assist and emergency braking, or the 4wd, i not only have them, but they are the best available. I even can identify certain parts of the engine under the hood because they are not hidden underneath a plastic "hands off you loser warranty void if removed" cover.

[Germany_chris]

X drive is a great AWD system and BMW has very few toys...

Whose right? [emoji1787]

[martl]

X drive is a great AWD system and BMW has very few toys...

Whose right? [emoji1787]

Me, i'm a german engineer :D (Xdrive is a clutch system which has any number of disatvantages over a true AWD with differentials. BMW, being the whiz kids they are, came around a few, not all, of them by using, erm, a lot of complicated toys)

[redir]

Maybe Scotty Kilmer can talk you out of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40fKEBwXQ7k

[Blue Jays]

"...Maybe Scotty Kilmer can talk you out of it.."
He seems like a funny and genuinely fun guy.
He would be a hoot telling stories at a party.

[redir]

He seems like a funny and genuinely fun guy.
He would be a hoot telling stories at a party.

He is really funny indeed :D

[RFC]

Here is my 2003 Z4. It finally died after 15 years. The transmission blew and the SMG transmission is very complex and expensive. Loved the car. It was a driver's car. The relative lack of suspension would bounce passengers around.

I traded it to my house painter for a paint job and $1100. A good deal for both of us.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49201168597_c8c0b5d52c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hXJRhi)IMG_6377 (https://flic.kr/p/2hXJRhi) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

[eddief]

and I want to know who supplies his cocaine. cool guy.


Maybe Scotty Kilmer can talk you out of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40fKEBwXQ7k

[CDM]

[QUOTE=RFC;2630983]Here is my 2003 Z4. It finally died after 15 years. The transmission blew and the SMG transmission is very complex and expensive. Loved the car. It was a driver's car. The relative lack of suspension would bounce passengers around.

I traded it to my house painter for a paint job and $1100. A good deal for both of us.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49201168597_c8c0b5d52c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hXJRhi)IMG_6377 (https://flic.kr/p/2hXJRhi) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr[/QUOTE

........with a ten foot pole....or ladder..!

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=RFC;2630983]Here is my 2003 Z4. It finally died after 15 years. The transmission blew and the SMG transmission is very complex and expensive. Loved the car. It was a driver's car. The relative lack of suspension would bounce passengers around.

I traded it to my house painter for a paint job and $1100. A good deal for both of us.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49201168597_c8c0b5d52c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hXJRhi)IMG_6377 (https://flic.kr/p/2hXJRhi) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr[/QUOTE

........with a ten foot pole....or ladder..!
How many miles before it died? Was there required normal servicing on that tranny? I know BMW decided years ago that their regular automatics had "lifetime" fills of transmission fluid from the factory. Of course there were enough premature failures that led to many jokes about how long a "lifetime" they referred to.

[martl]

Maybe Scotty Kilmer can talk you out of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40fKEBwXQ7k

didn't know him but he reminds me of that other foulmouthed car guy on youtube from Australia.:D
he has a point there, in fact, a lot of them. These are cars built for performance at a level that is beyond the skill of 99.8% of the drivers, and illegal in all countries but Germany, the Isle of Man and Burundi, if they were empty of all other people, which they aren't, and freshly paved, which they aren't either. But some people seem to have fun spending 400€ per tire instead of 89,90 because the car in theory can do 200mph :D i'd call that sucker tax.

Buddy of mine is an engineer in the drivetrain dept of BMW, he says don't get the 335, get the 325... much nicer car, but of course less bragging rights and that's what counts.

[tv_vt]

Wow. What this thread has taught me is that there are at least two things people have passionate opinions about: Rapha and BMW. ;)

9 pages and still going, even after the OP answered his own question.

[jamesdak]

didn't know him but he reminds me of that other foulmouthed car guy on youtube from Australia.:D
he has a point there, in fact, a lot of them. These are cars built for performance at a level that is beyond the skill of 99.8% of the drivers, and illegal in all countries but Germany, the Isle of Man and Burundi, if they were empty of all other people, which they aren't, and freshly paved, which they aren't either. But some people seem to have fun spending 400€ per tire instead of 89,90 because the car in theory can do 200mph :D i'd call that sucker tax.

Buddy of mine is an engineer in the drivetrain dept of BMW, he says don't get the 335, get the 325... much nicer car, but of course less bragging rights and that's what counts.

So, you ride a Huffy bike right? I mean anything more is just marketing B.S. And your running Kenda tires not Conti or Vittoria or likes right, not paying that sucker tax? :p

[Red Tornado]

[QUOTE=CDM;2631073]
How many miles before it died? Was there required normal servicing on that tranny? I know BMW decided years ago that their regular automatics had "lifetime" fills of transmission fluid from the factory. Of course there were enough premature failures that led to many jokes about how long a "lifetime" they referred to.

We owned a vehicle with "lifetime" transmission fluid. It was a Volvo XC90 AWD. The foreign car guy who serviced it for us told me you could change the fluid if you really wanted to (not literally a sealed transmission), but he had never done it. Told me if it doesn't give you trouble don't worry about it. We put close to 180K on it before trading it for my truck - never any issue with the tranny or shifting. Probably not the same tranny, and could also be a function of how the car is driven.
I have heard of people running them for a long time, say 80K+ miles, and then telling the mechanic to change the fluid, even though they were advised against it. The electronics have compensated for the changes in the fluid over time, and introducing all new fluid forces the computer to "re-learn" how to shift. Some folk had issues with transmissions after a fluid change. At least that's what I'm told.

[cinema]

[QUOTE=Ken Robb;2631084]

We owned a vehicle with "lifetime" transmission fluid. It was a Volvo XC90 AWD. The foreign car guy who serviced it for us told me you could change the fluid if you really wanted to (not literally a sealed transmission), but he had never done it. Told me if it doesn't give you trouble don't worry about it. We put close to 180K on it before trading it for my truck - never any issue with the tranny or shifting. Probably not the same tranny, and could also be a function of how the car is driven.
I have heard of people running them for a long time, say 80K+ miles, and then telling the mechanic to change the fluid, even though they were advised against it. The electronics have compensated for the changes in the fluid over time, and introducing all new fluid forces the computer to "re-learn" how to shift. Some folk had issues with transmissions after a fluid change. At least that's what I'm told.

This isn't true but I'm not eloquent enough to describe why. Regardless, a transmission should always have the same shift points if operating properly. Lifetime fluid should be changed around 60-80k. at most. lubricity breaks down over time due to temperature. Heat is what kills transmissions. Once fluid has lost lubricity, metal items wear much faster. If you never change your fluid and then suddenly change it at 200k, since you have missed crucial change intervals, your transmission has worn to a point where the increased amount of metal debris suspended in the fluid is keeping you in gear by providing extra friction. That's why you should just leave the old fluid in at that point and just be nice to it. Lifetime fluids are more like 'guaranteed for life' aka the warranty period of the vehicle. because once that's up, you get to pay for a new tranny from the dealer :)

[GScot]

On the topic of lifetime fluid in automatic transmissions with the ZF 8 speeds there are many versions used by many automakers. It seems the consensus in the Audi and Mopar crowds that I'm familiar with is if you run it hard, especially drag racing, change it with a drain and filter at 30-50k miles depending on just how hard you drive it. If you treat it normal service interval about 60k miles seems good. Always just fluid drain and filter swap. Going for the full system flush seems to bring its own set of risks with high mile transmissions that get a flush being more prone to problems after a flush.

[YesNdeed]

Late to join the party, but I would make the jump to rid myself of those Outback roof racks alone.

I hope to drive my S4 Avant for another couple of years, but I'm wondering what in the heck could follow up such a great car. A Macan GTS or RS6 Avant would suffice...I'll start my own Talk Me Out of This thread at that time.

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=Red Tornado;2631233]

This isn't true but I'm not eloquent enough to describe why. Regardless, a transmission should always have the same shift points if operating properly. Lifetime fluid should be changed around 60-80k. at most. lubricity breaks down over time due to temperature. Heat is what kills transmissions. Once fluid has lost lubricity, metal items wear much faster. If you never change your fluid and then suddenly change it at 200k, since you have missed crucial change intervals, your transmission has worn to a point where the increased amount of metal debris suspended in the fluid is keeping you in gear by providing extra friction. That's why you should just leave the old fluid in at that point and just be nice to it. Lifetime fluids are more like 'guaranteed for life' aka the warranty period of the vehicle. because once that's up, you get to pay for a new tranny from the dealer :)
Hey, I didn't post about owning a VOLVO as quoted above. That is someone else's comment.

[mulp]

On the topic of lifetime fluid in automatic transmissions with the ZF 8 speeds there are many versions used by many automakers. It seems the consensus in the Audi and Mopar crowds that I'm familiar with is if you run it hard, especially drag racing, change it with a drain and filter at 30-50k miles depending on just how hard you drive it. If you treat it normal service interval about 60k miles seems good. Always just fluid drain and filter swap. Going for the full system flush seems to bring its own set of risks with high mile transmissions that get a flush being more prone to problems after a flush.

I agree with what was stated above. For Lexus, I havent found one mechanic who recommended keeping the lifetime fluid in the care indefinitely, they all recommended a drain and fill if you have higher mileage and a flush if you start at 40-50k.

[Red Tornado]

[QUOTE=cinema;2631258]
Hey, I didn't post about owning a VOLVO as quoted above. That is someone else's comment.

Sorry for the thread drift. I was commenting in reply to the "lifetime" tranny fluid. Probably could have left the make of vehicle out.

[cmg]

here's Scotty's videos on BMWs https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=scotty+kilmer+bmw&view=detail&mid=EA1706003030F3626489EA1706003030F3626489&FORM=VIRE and a fav. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=scotty+kilmer+bmw&view=detail&mid=CFA6B7436DF2666C095CCFA6B7436DF2666C095C&FORM=VIRE

Had a friend who had an Audi 100LS, what a pile of junk. then a co-worker had a modern VW with an exploding water pump. Why put yourself through it especially when you know it's going to happen? This is a funny thread.

[Red Tornado]

[QUOTE=Red Tornado;2631233]

This isn't true but I'm not eloquent enough to describe why. Regardless, a transmission should always have the same shift points if operating properly. Lifetime fluid should be changed around 60-80k. at most. lubricity breaks down over time due to temperature. Heat is what kills transmissions. Once fluid has lost lubricity, metal items wear much faster. If you never change your fluid and then suddenly change it at 200k, since you have missed crucial change intervals, your transmission has worn to a point where the increased amount of metal debris suspended in the fluid is keeping you in gear by providing extra friction. That's why you should just leave the old fluid in at that point and just be nice to it. Lifetime fluids are more like 'guaranteed for life' aka the warranty period of the vehicle. because once that's up, you get to pay for a new tranny from the dealer :)

Excellent points. I was going off of what I was told by a mechanic when asking about my vehicle. Maybe I didn't remember correctly and that is what he was telling me - it's been a while. Makes sense. At the time our vehicle had ~90K on it. We bought it with 80K. Prior to that SUV, all my other stuff usually recommended fluid/filter change approximately every 30K, so that "lifetime" thing was new to me. The guy did say that changing the fluid in that particular vehicle was a PITA - maybe an additional reason why he told me what he did?

[tuscanyswe]

I too shall remember to do this more often. Quote myself that is and point out:
Excellent point björn (my name) very well thought out! :banana:

[saab2000]

I avoid most of this by just bringing it to my VW dealership on schedule. With one exception for a major repair (that I was expecting because it was a known issue - premature camshaft wear), my 2006 GTI has been dead reliable. It has never left me stranded, which is the prime directive of any automobile.

To be sure, there are some expensive items along the way and some of those periodic service items make my eyes water. I now own a 2018 VW Tiguan, which Scotty, in the videos, condemns. It's never done anything but run perfectly for me so far. I expect along the way some of the services will be expensive and at one of these services, there will be a flushing of the 8-speed automatic transmission.

None of this is to say that there won't be surprises but I've owned two automobiles new from the lot and both have always and only ever been serviced by VW authorized service centers and neither has had any nasty surprises, except the one I mentioned, and that happened when the car had over 100K miles, so by that point to have had a reliable car is pretty good. Start bringing them to other places and all bets are off.

Follow the manufacturer's maintenance schedule and I'd say most customers will be just fine.

[YesNdeed]

This discussion has me on the phone with my mechanic. Time for a Transmission flush.

Bad news: it will have to wait until after my trip to Tucson next week.

Good news: I'm going to Tucson and I'll finally climb Mount Lemmon! Anyone want to join? Rollout is Wednesday morning (12/18) at around 10. Pace is tempo unless I/we get motivated ;). PM if interested.