Legacy of the C'dale Slate

[sparky33]

Worth a read.
https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/cannondale-slate-was-a-bike-before-its-time/

This article popped up recently. It celebrates the Cannondale Slate as a disruptive bike that was a central stepping stone to the gravel craze.

Thoughts, opinions, banter please.

[unterhausen]

everyone wants to claim prescience about the switch to gravel. They were ahead of Trek and Spesh, and behind a lot of others. You can look like a genius just paying attention to what the QBP brands are selling a lot of. And QBP has people paying attention to what people are doing on their own.

[weisan]

http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/assets/news/originals/xritchey-sierra_ride_start_1977-1280.jpg.pagespeed.ic._EKGT5Jr1_.jpg

[RKW]

I have one. I love it.

Not the fastest, not the smoothest, but definitely one of the most entertaining ways to spend time in the saddle. It's impossible to take yourself seriously whilst riding it.

[sparky33]

Moderate suspension on a gravel bike is an intriguing concept. I eventually ended up buying a Lauf gravel bike and think the leaf spring fork makes a huge difference in handling and in reducing fatigue.

I wonder why Cannondale dropped front suspension in favor of rear suspension, particularly with the recent evolution of the left Ocho mtb fork. Why not update the Oliver too? Why not have a Topstone rear with a lefty Oliver fork?

[mulp]

Really enjoy learning about bike history, thanks for the article

[Hilltopperny]

I owned a 105 equipped Slate for a brief period of time. It was an interesting bicycle, but I preferred just about every gravel bike I have owned over it. I prefer my DeSalvo single speed hardtail 26er drop bar conversion to it as well.

It felt a bit sluggish to me over most of the terrain I was riding at the time and something about the bike just didn’t mesh with me for anything over 25 miles, so I sold it. It wasn’t the fact that it was 650b as my Drifter is currently set up that way and with 42mm tires same as the Slate.

The Slate was still a fun bike with an interesting concept that most production bike companies weren’t ready to go all in on at the time.


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[sparky33]

everyone wants to claim prescience about the switch to gravel. They were ahead of Trek and Spesh, and behind a lot of others. You can look like a genius just paying attention to what the QBP brands are selling a lot of. And QBP has people paying attention to what people are doing on their own.

Definitely. There are many building blocks here.

I am pleased that the article credits the importance of BQ/Rivendell/Pacenti in the ascent of 650b and of all-road etc riding.

[prototoast]

The bike might have been innovative in some respects, but I think it's an abuse of the "before its time" phrase to use it to describe a bike that was first produced four years ago, and was last produced last year.

[happycampyer]

The bike might have been innovative in some respects, but I think it's an abuse of the "before its time" phrase to use it to describe a bike that was first produced four years ago, and was last produced last year.I agree with this and the comments above. I did a “gravel bike shootout” in 2013 with a Psychlo-X YBB disc and a Seven 650b ti disc that predated the Evergreen:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1431065&postcount=19

If you look at the “show me your gravelbikes” thread, you’ll see that it started in 2013, and there were a number of disc bikes early on, and some with 650b as well.

Before the Slate was formally introduced, a friend of mine who works at Cannondale mentioned to me that the front suspension was in the works, and I expressed an interest in getting one of the forks to put on a YBB frame. When the Slate was finally introduced, Cannondale refused to sell the Oliver forks separately, which I think was a mistake. Only after the buzz around the bike died did Cannondale make the forks available, at which point I think it was too late. Lauf had been in the aftermarket gravel fork business for a while, and Fox had introduced a shorter travel gravel fork as well.

I ended up buying a Slate and reached out to Moots to see if they would build a Routt YBB with the fork, and they said no. I then had Firefly build a bike with the fork. The bike is so much better than the Slate in every way, it isn’t funny (and it should be, given that it was 4x the cost of a Slate). I truly believe that if Cannondale had made the Oliver fork available earlier, a lot of boutique builders would have built bikes with them, and it would have validated the design. Imo, Cannondale’s hubris in not wanting someone making a “better Slate” is what killed the Slate.

I still toy with the idea of getting a Routt YBB (which they now make, three years after I first asked them), and putting the Oliver fork on it, but I’d probably be better off with the Lauf. I still prefer the steampunk aesthetics of the Oliver though...

I do think that Seven deserves a mention in the promotion of 650b as a platform for all-road bikes. Again, they weren’t the first, but I have to believe that their efforts influenced the Cannndale design team.

[shoota]

Didn't the GT Grade come before the Slate?

[Greenpea]

I was so intrigued by this bike. I think I test road it 3 or 4 times. Same damn bike too, the shop wasn't moving them and each time it was cheaper than the last time I swung a leg over it. It never felt right to me though(I wanted it to so bad). The gearing was was too steep and the head tube was short for me... And not to mention the price tag on an Aluminum frame.

Then I saw that Firefly on here and the obsession only multiplied. That sumabitch was done right! More or less having to buy two bikes to make it happen because the lack of open market for the Oliver was over budget. I even looked into converting a Flash/F29/F-Si at one point but got distracted by said Firefly(drool)

With more evolution I think it could have been a good/maybe great bike and not just a novelty.

[72gmc]

A very recent road bike with active suspension would seem to be better credited with expanding the gravel craze to new riders, not starting it. Its strongest influence may have been as a visual indicator of surfaces beyond tarmac, and it would have been eye-popping only for people who've never heard of Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle or John Tomac or Dave Kirk or ...

[R3awak3n]

will read the article later but the gravel "scene" was already pretty popular before the slate. I remember getting into it during the rawland days which is years before the slate.... When people were still on gran bois tires and eventually fatter tire came out and more choice.

The slate was cool but I think the fact that the max was 42c 650b and the fork which is not really needed on gravel (and adds weight and maintnence, ect) killed the bike.

[zzy]

The whole gravel bike craze was just the evolution of the CX bike craze from the late aughts. Also as drivers become more and more distracted by the ubiquity of electronics, people migrate away from road riding. The only people who really consider the Slate 'revolutionary' are people who weren't paying attention to what pretty much every smaller OEM (esp Surly) was already doing. And the Lefty 650b fork kinda sucked. There was a 700c Lefty proto for CDale's pro cross teams and it was quickly abandoned. The truth is that really wide tires work better than suspension on gravel trails. Which 3rd party brands figured out years ago, but the biggest OEMs (with the biggest marketing budgets) are only just figuring out.

[m_moses]

I’ve got the black cx1 version and it was my gateway drug to gravel riding. It’s been replaced by an Open UP which I much prefer.

It is truly a do everything kind of bike and though I struggled with the gearing on group rides, it was hard to fault on gravel once I replaced the stock tires. It is also a little heavy thanks to the Oliver though with carbon wheels and few other cockpit updates my large Slate came in around 19lbs.

Over time the aesthetic started to bug me a little. The lefty initially had kind of a wow factor but eventually I started to think it just added unnecessary complexity. It’s still fun to see the reaction of those who aren’t familiar with the bike when they see a drop bar bike with a single strut instead of a fork. I’ve got a riding buddy who still thinks it takes some kind of special skill to ride a lefty equipped bike.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/7b636440f4fb004f252b5f0dcf462d4d.jpg


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[glepore]

Have one, and for certain types of gravel-rutted steep Blue Ridge mountain stuff, it rocks. It's heavy and a bit sluggish, and less of a multisurface bike than most "gravel" bikes. The price of the fork is just stupid. I ended up buying a rigid Apex bike and using a PBR mtb fork, which is heavier but has ridiculous travel and was 1/3 the cost.

[sparky33]

The price of the fork is just stupid.

Only after the buzz around the bike died did Cannondale make the forks available, at which point I think it was too late. Lauf had been in the aftermarket gravel fork business for a while, and Fox had introduced a shorter travel gravel fork as well.

I ended up buying a Slate and reached out to Moots to see if they would build a Routt YBB with the fork, and they said no. I then had Firefly build a bike with the fork. The bike is so much better than the Slate in every way, it isn’t funny (and it should be, given that it was 4x the cost of a Slate). I truly believe that if Cannondale had made the Oliver fork available earlier, a lot of boutique builders would have built bikes with them, and it would have validated the design. Imo, Cannondale’s hubris in not wanting someone making a “better Slate” is what killed the Slate.


Agree and Agree. If Cannondale had offered the Oliver widely and for $1000 or less...if only.

[weisan]

.

[glepore]

There's a thread on WW forum with a guy who's having a Chinese build to spec ti company fab a frame using a mtb lefty with the geometry so that it sets up correctly. Nice mtb lefty's forks are all over ebay for not too much money 9mine was 500 new) but the mtbs use smaller headtubes heightwise so its tough to fit.

There is a company that does a 'lefty for all" steerer to fit any normal frame, but again ht height can be an issue.

[Burning Pines]

I never wanted one of these things but also appreciated that a big brand would do something so weird. Probably a lot of people felt the same which is why they had to clear a bunch out at REI.

On the topic of big brands I don’t get what trek and spesh are doing with their gravel bikes. Just boring aluminum and carbon options that aren’t optimized for 650b use at all, except maybe the sequoia. Specialized killed the awol too. Are customers of these brands just not interested in this stuff?

[happycampyer]

<snip>
There is a company that does a 'lefty for all" steerer to fit any normal frame, but again ht height can be an issue.The standard steerer on a lefty is a whopping 1.5". Project 3-2-1 makes a tapered steerer kit (and perhaps others do as well). My Firefly has the Project 3-2-1 steerer, with a tapered headtube. As you note, the limiting factor is the height of the stanchion—the headtube can't be any taller than the upper bearing, which means that an XL frame will have a very short headtube.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LQ8KCmN/0/be7693d0/L/i-LQ8KCmN-L.jpg

Having a suspension fork may be overkill, but the fork definitely provides more compliance than the tire alone. Ask 54ny77—he goofed around on the bike for a bit and found it almost comically fun to ride. After Firefly made my bike, Jamie made one for himself with a Lefty, super skinny seatstays and a 1" seatpost for "passive" suspension. Would have loved to have the skinny stays on this bike.

[m_moses]

.



Wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard that one.


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[marciero]

Agree with others that it understates the gravel scene, the presence and availability of 650b tires, antecedents to the Slate, etc, pre-2015. Still, some interesting history and I enjoyed the article.

[glepore]

Having a suspension fork may be overkill, but the fork definitely provides more compliance than the tire alone. Ask 54ny77—he goofed around on the bike for a bit and found it almost comically fun to ride. After Firefly made my bike, Jamie made one for himself with a Lefty, super skinny seatstays and a 1" seatpost for "passive" suspension. Would have loved to have the skinny stays on this bike.

Try a vcls seatpost (or get a knockoff one to try). The take just enough sting out of the back end to balance the bike a bit.

[54ny77]

happy's firefly is beyond bonkers awesome. i rode it literally straight into a curb at low speed and floated right through it like a knife thru hot buttah. it didn't even flinch, and i did indeed laugh like a little kid at how fun that thing is. the parts spec, the overall craftsmanship & assembly....yowza. :cool:


The standard steerer on a lefty is a whopping 1.5". Project 3-2-1 makes a tapered steerer kit (and perhaps others do as well). My Firefly has the Project 3-2-1 steerer, with a tapered headtube. As you note, the limiting factor is the height of the stanchion—the headtube can't be any taller than the upper bearing, which means that an XL frame will have a very short headtube.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LQ8KCmN/0/be7693d0/L/i-LQ8KCmN-L.jpg

Having a suspension fork may be overkill, but the fork definitely provides more compliance than the tire alone. Ask 54ny77—he goofed around on the bike for a bit and found it almost comically fun to ride. After Firefly made my bike, Jamie made one for himself with a Lefty, super skinny seatstays and a 1" seatpost for "passive" suspension. Would have loved to have the skinny stays on this bike.

[p nut]

...
It felt a bit sluggish to me over most of the terrain I was riding at the time and something about the bike just didn’t mesh with me for anything over 25 miles, so I sold it. ....
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I had an Ultegra version and felt the same way. Very nice bike and loved the fit. For what it was, felt very slow. Maybe just in my mind, as I'm not used to suspension.