So i thought was not going to work...

[ultraman6970]

So, had this idea about a triple 10 speed campy bike because of having to walk like 4 times going uphill in the last century i did, went with the wrong gear (my excuse to "dont have the legs") so the idea had been moving around my head for a while...need a f... triple for this ride in specific!...

My issue was the parts, specially the RD and the FD for a triple...

so tonite mocked the built, put a triple chorus crankset with a symmetric 111 BB and is perfect and IMO would be better maybe with a 109 symmetric BB in this bike in specific. But thats just me.

Left the potenza FD and RD (medium cage) that was in the bike already and added a set of chorus 10 brifters.

For the record tried the potenza group with the triple and the brifter needs maybe 2 more clicks, i was able to ramp the chain into the 53 but since i was out of clicks the chain did not stay in position. If somebody makes that piece for a few extra clicks, that guy could be into something because would be super cool to be able to do triple with any 11 and maybe even 12 speeds groups.

So far the FD worked flawless and the rd aswell, thought was not going to work. Still need to try in the street but so far in the stand worked perfectly. have a triple campy FD and I do not know if to put that one instead, but so far the potenza FD shift like a champ. The only detail is that in the tiny chainring position the cable touches the FD spring area, probably will scratch it or something, the reason is because of the arm position, probably that doesnt happen with the comp triple FD i got for this built.

And I thought was not going to work at all!...

[Mike V]

Ok

[zmalwo]

Have you tried 50/34 and an 11- X>34 cassette? even 34/34 is bigger than 30/29 you can get from a tripple campy.

[R3awak3n]

Or he could get a 46-30 crank, 32 cassete on the potenza and sub 1.

I think triples are cool but with so many gearing options now a days really no reason to mess with them.

[merckx]

I've been using a 50/40/30 triple for a couple of years. A lot of big rides in my legs on that thing. Prior to this, I used a 50/34, but was always searching for a gear that didn't exist. The triple allows a quasi racing double with alpine and D2R2 gearing when needed. Q is at 154 so not too bad. I also have a 28t small ring for stupid stuff, but I guess I've been smart enough not to need it yet. At this point, I can't wrap my head around a one-by with massive gaps between gear intervals. This may be a hang-over from my competitive days when a one tooth cog change was a significant difference.

[paredown]

I've been using a 50/40/30 triple for a couple of years. A lot of big rides in my legs on that thing. Prior to this, I used a 50/34, but was always searching for a gear that didn't exist. The triple allows a quasi racing double with alpine and D2R2 gearing when needed. Q is at 154 so not too bad. I also have a 28t small ring for stupid stuff, but I guess I've been smart enough not to need it yet. At this point, I can't wrap my head around a one-by with massive gaps between gear intervals. This may be a hang-over from my competitive days when a one tooth cog change was a significant difference.

This is where I'm at these days as well--and you can run that front with a medium cage rear, although I think my rear is a 12-26. I too like the spacing--and I ride it like a regular double and the small front is the bail-out ring.

[oldpotatoe]

put a triple chorus crankset with a symmetric 111 BB and is perfect and IMO would be better maybe with a 109 symmetric BB in this bike in specific. But thats just me.


Surprised that the RH crank arm or small ring isn't too close to the RH chainstay. Record Chorus BBs are 111mm and asymmetrical
Left the potenza FD and RD (medium cage) that was in the bike already and added a set of chorus 10 brifters.
And a double FD is 'deep' enough to get the chain from the 30 to the 42? Campag 10s ERGO does make it all a little easier tho..

[Ralph]

Chorus and Record 10 speed Campy triples use Asymmetrical 111 BB. Not symmetrical. Approx 3 mm more offset on non drive side. Those triples used the same non drive side crank arm as Chorus/Record doubles....so used the BB axle to offset. Later Centaur based Campy triples (Centaur, Comp triple, etc) had a "dog leg" in the non drive side triple crank arm, and used the symmetrical BB.

Am surprised you got a double Fd to work across 3 rings. Not so much the cage width but travel.

You can use a 111 ISO symmetrical BB with adjustable cups both sides and shift the whole crank to the left some and probably make it work (though drive side may rub). Doubt if you can shift it 3 MM though. Can do some more with cleat placement.

[mulp]

Probably wont be trying this anytime soon but kudos for your ingenuity!

[ultraman6970]

Put a miche iso 111 (they dont make them anymore in iso just in case) i had destined for a record C crankset. I thought the same thing than you guys, that the fit was going to be weird because i knew the BB needed to be assymmetrical but fit perfectly. The miche is like campagnolo, not adjustable sides or anything.

I can send you a picture with the spacing potato, because there's still room in there that's why I was thinking that maybe a 109 symmetrical could be better but looks like is all ok.

Yesterday found a site from a guy that compares the 111 campy triple BBs and he pretty much went symmetrical aswell and no problems either, personally measured the distance from the stays to the crankset/pedal area and is the same at both sides, the Q factor is off a few mm obviously but it worked just fine.

I do agree with merckx, the problem i prsonally have with those humoungous cogs, like 34 up to 40 and even more is that the jumps between one gear and another are way too big... back in my racer days straight block was the way to go for me, and yes.. sometimes half a tooth was needed and sucks when you are in those situations where one cog is going to be tad too much and the other was too light...

Yes the double potenza FD shifted perfectly, i imagine because just needs to move the chain enough for the ramps at the chainrings to pick up? but yeah... worked perfect up and down, thought was going to be rough but shifted like a champ.

If potenza works with campy 10 brifter, means the campy 10 rd will work with potenza brifter??????? anybody have done the test?

[Ralph]

The reason you think it could run a 109....IE it sticks out enough....is because with the symmetrical BB the drive side crank sticks out further than it would if you used a asymmetrical BB. And if the drive side was moved in some, your double FD probably wouldn't "come in" enough to make the small ring shift.

it's good you are satisfied.

[Ken Robb]

I ran TA Zephyr 48-38-28 in Chorus 10-speed group with 13-29 cassette just fine.

[choke]

even 34/34 is bigger than 30/29 you can get from a tripple campy.The Campy triples often come with a 30T small ring but a smaller one will fit. It's a normal 74mm BCD so one can go down to a 24T.

[cgolvin]

Ultra, glad you're happy but in case you prefer to get the "proper" BB I have a Chorus and no use for it:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=230996

[HTupolev]

You can use a 111 ISO symmetrical BB with adjustable cups both sides and shift the whole crank to the left some and probably make it work (though drive side may rub). Doubt if you can shift it 3 MM though. Can do some more with cleat placement.
I wouldn't worry about it unless something was bothering me about the pedal stroke. People rarely notice slight q asymmetry. In the days of adjustable bottom brackets with 3-piece spindles, it was common practice for bike manufacturers to select asymmetric spindles to minimize overall q-factor.

This morning I rode 47 miles on a bike that's about 1cm wider on the DS than the NDS, it pedals great.

Am surprised you got a double Fd to work across 3 rings. Not so much the cage width but travel.
The parallelogram length on lots of double FDs is adequate to sweep across a triple. Back in the day there wasn't even a difference: people used the same derailleurs for double and triple drivetrains, and just set the limits wider for a triple.

[ultraman6970]

Well the asymmetric bb push the driver side out because the driver side of the axle is longer right???

The reason you think it could run a 109....IE it sticks out enough....is because with the symmetrical BB the drive side crank sticks out further than it would if you used a asymmetrical BB. And if the drive side was moved in some, your double FD probably wouldn't "come in" enough to make the small ring shift.

it's good you are satisfied.

[Ralph]

Nope.....On the Chorus and Record triples.....the offset is to the non drive side. I used to think it was to the drive side.

Chorus and Record triples and doubles use the same crank arms on the non drive side. So that side needs to be pushed out some with axle for triple use.

The more modern Centaur based Campy square taper triples (Centaur, Veloce, Comp Triple, etc) have a "dog leg" in the non drive arm.....making that side Q (for want of a better way to say it) more on that side. So that arm is for triples only. But allows for symmetrical 111 BB, same BB as double.

BTW....I've got a NOS Comp triple 170 arms 30-40-50 for sale in classified. Never had a chain around it.

[muz]

Nope.....On the Chorus and Record triples.....the offset is to the non drive side. I used to think it was to the drive side.

Chorus and Record triples and doubles use the same crank arms on the non drive side. So that side needs to be pushed out some.


This doesn't make sense to me. The Record NDS arm wants to see a 102mm spindle, so the extension will be longer on the drive side, right?

[Ralph]

This doesn't make sense to me. The Record NDS arm wants to see a 102mm spindle, so the extension will be longer on the drive side, right?

Nope....The 111 asymmetrical BB for Chorus and Record triple is offset (about 3 MM) to non drive side. The non drive arm not changed for triple use, like the Centaur and Comp triple. I think of it as about a 108 MM axle with 3 mm added to non drive side. Making 111 asymmetrical.

Double uses the 102 symmetrical as we all know. I ride one of those regularly.

Go look at a Phil Wood asymmetrical 111 for Chorus and Record triple. They show a plus 3 on non drive side. That's how I figured it out.

[muz]

Nope....The 111 asymmetrical BB for Chorus and Record triple is offset (about 3 MM) to non drive side. The non drive arm not changed for triple use, like the Centaur and Comp triple. I think of it as about a 108 MM axle with 3 mm added to non drive side. Making 111 asymmetrical.

Double uses the 102 symmetrical as we all know. I ride one of those regularly.

Go look at a Phil Wood asymmetrical 111 for Chorus and Record triple. They show a plus 3 on non drive side. That's how I figured it out.

I still don't get it. Just look at the non-drive side. Double and triple NDS arms are the same. Therefore, NDS extension of the spindle must also be the same. We know doubles use 102 symmetrical, ergo the extra length must go on the drive side.

[HTupolev]

Nope....The 111 asymmetrical BB for Chorus and Record triple is offset (about 3 MM) to non drive side.
I've never used these (and I'm having a hard time finding any documentation), but that would be highly unusual. Asymmetric spindles back in the day were generally longer on the drive side. The point wasn't to make the pedals symmetric about the bike's centerline, but to keep each crank arm as inboard as practical. In the case of a drive side of a triple, the crank arm design is often similar to that of a double crank arm but with the extra chainring farther inboard, requiring the arm to be moved outboard to keep the inner ring clear of the frame and to center the chainline on the middle ring.

[Ralph]

I'll try one more time to explain....and yes I've also used a Sugino AT triple....and it stuck out more on drive side.

In the 90's, when Campy first brought out the 8 speed Race triples....with the 111 symmetrical BB (actually an Athena 111 sealed bearings with adjustable cups both sides....I've still got one of those), the non drive side arms were the same as the doubles. I know...I had one. and the drive side stuck out more than left.

Sometime around the time the 9 speed Race Triple came out.....Campy put a "dog leg" in the non drive side arms....to make it equal both sides and with those....the non drive side arms were different from doubles. I know....I've laid them out side to side. And parts numbers are different. But those triple were even both sides. And stayed that way with the more modern square taper Centaur based 10 speed triples including the last one.....the Comp Triple.

When Campy brought out the Record and Chorus 10 speed triples in early 2000's.....they did not change the non drive side arms. I know....I've had them. Had same numbers on them. So they made the axle long enough for the drive side to have clearance....and added extra 3 mm to axle on non drive side (plus 3) to make up for using the double arm, thus 111 asymmetrical, because they left the non drive side arms the same.

[ultraman6970]

http://ock10stuff.blogspot.com/2017/11/assymetric-vs-symmetric-campagnolo.html

[oldpotatoe]

This doesn't make sense to me. The Record NDS arm wants to see a 102mm spindle, so the extension will be longer on the drive side, right?

It DOES but the triple side needs a longer spindle so putting the 'double' NDS crank arm onto a 111mm spindle makes for equal 'stance, left and right.

[pcxmbfj]

I purchased from a local ad a set of Shimano Racing Zero's last night.
Briefly checked and had a CS-6600 cassette mounted as advertised.
This morning pulled out to see better what I had and discovered they have Campy a freehub with a loosely fitted Shimano cassette.

I've never run Campy and want to know if these can easily convert to Shimano?

[ultraman6970]

Ok... then since the triple driver side puts the pedal further out, campagnolo had to put the longer side of the 111 at the nds so the pedals are equally distant in both sides??? makes sense.

[Black Dog]

I purchased from a local ad a set of Shimano Racing Zero's last night.
Briefly checked and had a CS-6600 cassette mounted as advertised.
This morning pulled out to see better what I had and discovered they have Campy a freehub with a loosely fitted Shimano cassette.

I've never run Campy and want to know if these can easily convert to Shimano?

Yes. Buy the shimano free hub body for the fulcrum/campy wheels and easy to swap with two 5mm allen keys.

[oldpotatoe]

I purchased from a local ad a set of Shimano Racing Zero's last night.
Briefly checked and had a CS-6600 cassette mounted as advertised.
This morning pulled out to see better what I had and discovered they have Campy a freehub with a loosely fitted Shimano cassette.

I've never run Campy and want to know if these can easily convert to Shimano?

Yes, easy to convert to shimano compatible..best, most compatible is the 'white' version..part number FH-BO-015.. PLug and play..5mm allen in axle end to hold axle, 17mm open end to loosen RH fixing nut-LEFT THREADED as in righty-loosey..old FHB off, new one on(wee bit of oil on pawls)...
easy to swap with two 5mm allen keys

For FHB swap, only need 1-5mm allen..

There is a dark colored, steel one(white on is aluminum) and it's more backward compatible(onto ANY OS axle hub, even the non lobed ones) and cheaper too.

[ultraman6970]

Update... thanks to one of the forumites i got a short cage chorus RD and pretty much now I have the whole chorus group in the bike with the exception of the FD...

Today got in the mail a Wolf tooth and the thing works perfect! the only thing i had to do is to put a longer derailleur casing but is working pretty good. Probably can go all the way to a 32 with the wolftooth, no idea if they make 32 for 10 speed but so far as it is in the stand everything works perfect.

Now need to install the handlebar tape and go outside to try this thing as soon as stops raining and have time to do it.