Life of a waxed chain

[weaponsgrade]

I've been riding with waxed chains on some of my bikes and thought I'd report on some findings. One of the things that's been interesting is how the need to rewax seems to manifest itself in a loud creaking noise when in a low gear. I had some low gear creaking noises on one of my bikes. I pulled the hub apart and couldn't see anything amiss. Bearings felt fine, no cracks, etc. It didn't yet occur to me that the chain needed a rewax because the creaking only happened when I was in a low gear and shifts seemed fine. I didn't have time to put everything back together and I set the wheel aside for a bit while I got some rides in on my other bikes. I then experienced the exact same sound on my other bikes - creaking, but only in low gear. I rewaxed all the chains and now all is good. Here's how many miles I got out of each bike:

Bike 1: 270mi
Bike 2: 120mi
Bike 3: 426mi

Bikes 1 and 2 are mountain bikes. Bikes 1 and 2 had some riding in some damp conditions. I seem to recall riding bike 1 in more damp conditions than bike 2, though bike 2 was subjected to some pounding rain while mounted to the roof of my car. Bike 3 is a gravel bike that saw a mix of mostly dry road and dirt conditions.

[DWColiins]

What kind of wax are you using? Straight paraffin? Or something else?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[oldguy00]

...
Bike 1: 270mi
Bike 2: 120mi
Bike 3: 426mi
....

That seems pretty much in line with what I've read for re-waxing chains. Mine are mostly used indoors, then outside for races. I probably re-wax them after roughly 250 - 300 miles, and always before a race. Thats on a triathlon bike.
I use molten speed wax. Yes, more expensive than paraffin from Walmart, but still only about $20 a year. I could make a $20 bag last longer, but I dump the wax and put a new bag in the crock pot each year just because.

[joosttx]

I go about 150 miles on my mountain bike (all off road use) I think I could go a little longer but I don’t mind the waxing process. I’m using molten speed wax.

[John H.]

I think expecting 250-400+ out of a wax job is too much.
I am more in the 150 cam like Houston-

I keep a small container of Wendwax in my seat bag. If my drivetrain starts getting too noisy, I massage a bit of that into the chain and do a re-wax when I get home. Works great-

[weaponsgrade]

I'm using molten speedwax. I should also add that the bike 2 miles are all dirt while the bike 1 miles included road riding. Riding on dirt - even dry dirt seems to really affect the wax longevity. Overall I'm happy with the results. It's great not having to deal with a greasy drivetrain.

[joosttx]

I'm using molten speedwax. I should also add that the bike 2 miles are all dirt while the bike 1 miles included road riding. Riding on dirt - even dry dirt seems to really affect the wax longevity. Overall I'm happy with the results. It's great not having to deal with a greasy drivetrain.

I think the dust where we live is pretty fine which doesn’t help the longevity of the wax.

[zmalwo]

I had no idea chain can creak too.

[eddief]

that's why I have settled on NFS for the foreseeable future.

[BdaGhisallo]

that's why I have settled on NFS for the foreseeable future.

I used NFS from the first day I could buy it. It's a great wet lube - easily the best I have used in my 30 + years of riding - but I am waxing now.

Waxing is just so damn easy and clean. The chain stays clean but, more importantly and surprising for me, the bike also remains a lot cleaner. I have ridden a few times in pouring rain since starting to wax and I am pleased with how less filthy the rest of the bike gets. With no wet lube to get sludged up and flung around the rear triangle, clean up is a four minute soap and water wash.

And I have found that a waxed chain will survive a couple of rides in the wet. When I started I was worried that after any ride that saw any water I would have to re-wax the chain. I needn't have worried.

[jpritchet74]

Been waxing for years - I do the parrafin + addatives that the Jason at Friction Facts (now CeramicSpeed) suggested. Super easy and everything stays CLEAN which is what I really like since when I drive somewhere to ride I put the bike in the back seat of my car (front wheel removed). No more grease keeps the car clean.

I would say I average about 200 miles per chain. I regularly alternate between 2 road bikes, so once one bike is in need I stick with the other one until that is in need - then I was both chains at the same time.

[CAAD]

I would be cleaning the chain weekly using wax. I like the idea of a clean drivetrain though. Currently using nfs. I use some speed degreaser on a rag and run the chain backwards a few times. Then reapply nfs. Takes 2min, chain stays on the bike.

[eddief]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tech-news-friction-facts-releases-ultrafast-chain-lube-formula/

The recipe for the UltraFast lube itself is surprisingly simple: 1lb of "household paraffin wax", 5g of pure PTFE (Teflon) powder, and 1g of pure molybdenum disulfide (MoS2). The wax is first melted at approximately 180°F, the powders are added in, and the ingredients are thoroughly mixed with some sort of agitator (Smith uses a common battery powered milk frother).

[Dave]

I apply my wax in liquid form, dissolved in naptha, with .5% gear lube for added wear protection.

Chains still need to be cleaned occasionally, to get the longest life. No lube prevents grit from getting into the chain. If you never clean a chain, it won't last as long.

Dipping a chain into hot wax is not going to clean a chain like a good solvent bath will.

[Ken Robb]

I know wax is good for rust prevention. I wonder if it provides the same protection against wear as dedicated chain lubes.

[jpritchet74]

I apply my wax in liquid form, dissolved in naptha, with .5% gear lube for added wear protection.

Chains still need to be cleaned occasionally, to get the longest life. No lube prevents grit from getting into the chain. If you never clean a chain, it won't last as long.

Dipping a chain into hot wax is not going to clean a chain like a good solvent bath will.

This. I shake the chains in a mason jar full of mineral spirits to clean them before putting them into the wax every time.

[eddief]

same guys mentioned above use this method. i do something similar.

https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/clean-your-chain

[Dave]

I know wax is good for rust prevention. I wonder if it provides the same protection against wear as dedicated chain lubes.

I doubt it. That's why I add oil with extreme pressure additives. Can't hurt.

[JStonebarger]

I doubt it. That's why I add oil with extreme pressure additives. Can't hurt.

Sure it could (hurt). I just use straight parrafin, but the folks at MSW and others have suggested that wax sticks best to clean dry metal without any added oil. I haven't experimented with it myself, but figure if adding oil worked well MSW would have done it by now.

[Ken Robb]

What is MSW?

[Ken Robb]

Does wax on a chain get stiff enough in cold weather to have a noticeable effect on power transfer or shift quality?

[JStonebarger]

Sorry -- Molten Speed Wax. A great resource whether or not you buy a bag.

[Dave]

https://moltenspeedwax.com/

MSW is primarily interested in low friction, not chain life. A lot of hot paraffin users add paraffin oil to their wax, in relatively high quantities and still report good results. I think it's smarter to add a much smaller percentage of oil with EP additives to enhance chain life.

My experience so far is a small percentage of oil produces good chain life, but I also apply at 100-150 mile intervals. Using a chain until is squeaks means you waited too long.

I don't ride in extreme cold, but I do ride in the winter and had no problem with wax lube. Truth be known, most of it falls off quickly. There is no way that wax will remain adhered to the high pressure contacts points within a chain, for even a single ride.

I won't have any chain life report until late next year. I've been using the wax lube since last July, but switched both of my bikes over to 12 speed this July and I'm alternating the use of 4 chains on two bikes.

[weaponsgrade]

It doesn't get to freezing temps here in the SF Bay Area. I was out the other day with temps in the 40s and shifting was fine. I haven't messed with adding any oil to the wax and probably won't. I haven't noticed any rusting on the chain. I did the whole mineral spirits/alcohol wash thing with the new chains. It was a pain. MSW says that you can just throw in a previously waxed chain ridden in dry conditions straight into the pot. I swished mine around in some hot water, dried it off, and then threw it in. Though I do agree that another mineral spirits wash would've been better.

[JStonebarger]

https://moltenspeedwax.com/

MSW is primarily interested in low friction, not chain life...

Performance (low friction) is my primary focus as well. If I worried about chain life I would probably ride 8 speed. That said, everything I've seen on the MSW site and elsewhere seems to show that waxing chains extends the life of the entire drive train.

https://moltenspeedwax.com/
There is no way that wax will remain adhered to the high pressure contacts points within a chain, for even a single ride.

I'm confused -- why do you use it? Does the wax keep working after it's gone?

[muz]

[url]

My experience so far is a small percentage of oil produces good chain life, but I also apply at 100-150 mile intervals. Using a chain until is squeaks means you waited too long.


I put about 125 miles a week on my commuter, and I am definitely not dealing with waxing a chain every weekend. Currently I use NFS, re-applied maybe once a month.

[Dave]

Hot dipping puts most of the wax where it's not needed - on the inner and outer plates. The wear areas are all around and inside the roller. Chain elongation occurs due to wear between the pins and the inner plates. The hole in the roller is also an area of greatest wear.

MSW only claims 16 applications for 16 ounces of paraffin. Paraffin dissolved in solvent only requires 1/2 ounce of paraffin for at least 16 applcations, but I would apply it more frequently. 1 ounce of paraffin mixed with 6 ounces of solvent will easily deliver 32 applications.

The MSW friction tests are amusing. They expect users to get excited about 1-1.5 watt? They should include a clean and totally dry chain in the tests.

[robertbb]

I started waxing my chains about 2 months ago.

I looked into MSW, and also into buying the additives (PTFE and Molybdenum) to add to plain paraffin wax. I found a local industrial wax-maker that can sell me pharmacy grade paraffin wax in pellets for AU$12 a kg, which is penuts really.

In the end I decided against the additives because they strike me as being unnecessary, expensive and possible toxic (especially when heated and breathed in). The zero friction cycling testing found the additives only saved 0.14 of a watt when compared with plain paraffin....

I have four Campy Record chains on rotation, and each chain lasts about a week of cycling. I'm happy to fire up the slow cooker and dip the chains once a month. Easy to add and remove the chains with a quick link.

They don't repel dirt as well as I expected, and there are flakes of wax around the drivetrain area of the bike but this wipes off easily and it beats a traditional lube that just gets mucky.

[Dave]

Using solvent dissolved wax, there will be far less wax to flake off. A week of riding for me is only about 130 miles, but instead of removing a chain, all I do is apply more lube, that only takes a couple of minutes. Every 3-4 weeks, I'll take the chain off to clean it, and put a different chain in my rotation on the bike.

[fmradio516]

Dang i thought wax lasted longer than that. I definitely dont put in the weekly miles you guys do but it seems like ill need to swap a chain every 2-3 weeks, im guessing.

Wish i never went and bought the wax and mini crockpot :(

[zap]

I put about 125 miles a week on my commuter, and I am definitely not dealing with waxing a chain every weekend. Currently I use NFS, re-applied maybe once a month.

I ride that much on weekends. I waxed some chains......25 years ago. It was a waste of time.

Nothing lasts anywhere near as long as the lube that comes with a new chain. Nuts to strip that away. Reapply with NFS or whatever as needed for the next 3-4k and then toss the chain. Ti cassette should last 20 plus thousand miles.

Ok, if reducing drivetrain friction is your goal.....racing, use a chain for 700 or so dry miles, clean and refresh the chain with your favorite oil based lube.

[robertbb]

Using solvent dissolved wax, there will be far less wax to flake off. A week of riding for me is only about 130 miles, but instead of removing a chain, all I do is apply more lube, that only takes a couple of minutes. Every 3-4 weeks, I'll take the chain off to clean it, and put a different chain in my rotation on the bike.

What do you mean by solvent dissolved wax?

[weaponsgrade]

Just to be clear, that 120 miles I reported are all dirt miles. The 270mi was dirt/road but mostly dirt. The 400mi was dirt/road but mostly road (this gravel bike is also a 2x whereas the others are 1x - not sure if that makes a difference). MSW states 300mi between waxes but I don’t think they made a distinction between road and mtn riding. It’s reassuring to see that my dirt miles are in the ballpark of what others have found.

[JStonebarger]

I don't get too many miles per wax on our cyclocross bikes, but it all depends on the conditions. I haven't really counted MPW on or off the road. I like waxing for the free speed and convenience.

[Ralph]

I ride that much on weekends. I waxed some chains......25 years ago. It was a waste of time.

Nothing lasts anywhere near as long as the lube that comes with a new chain. Nuts to strip that away. Reapply with NFS or whatever as needed for the next 3-4k and then toss the chain. Ti cassette should last 20 plus thousand miles.

Ok, if reducing drivetrain friction is your goal.....racing, use a chain for 700 or so dry miles, clean and refresh the chain with your favorite oil based lube.

My view also. Wax is a poor lube. Much of the mess some report with NFS and other lubes, comes from over oiling. Just a few drops around the chain every ride or couple rides is usually enough.

[JStonebarger]

My view also. Wax is a poor lube...

Except when actually tested. Then wax outperforms all the other lubes, with less friction, longer life, etc.

[Dave]

A solvent like naptha (camp stove fuel) can only dissolve a limited amount of wax - 1 ounce by weight requires 6-7 ounces of solvent. Any less solvent will just be a mush. At temps in the mid 60's it will turn to a mush, but placing the dispensing bottle in some hot water returns it to a liquid in a couple of minutes.

Putting the lube in the microwave does nothing. The solvent is nonpolar and does not react like water or oils.

I've used this lube for about 5000 miles now and found no short comings. It's very clean, lasts for a reasonable number of miles and is easily reapplied.

Some users of hot wax never clean their chains. They just swish them in the wax and call it good. I think that's inadequate. I take the chain off every 3-4 weeks and use more naptha to clean the chain. Two rinses are needed to clean the chain thoroughly. I buy Crown brand for under $9 per gallon at Wal-Mart. That's a lot less than the typical price for mineral spirits.

I made up a big batch with a 4 ounce block of paraffin. It's going to last several years.

[oldguy00]

Except when actually tested. Then wax outperforms all the other lubes, with less friction, longer life, etc.

Exactly.... wax is only a poor lube for those that are too lazy to wax often enough and properly clean the chain.
Used properly, it is the fastest and cleanest. Double win.

[zap]

Exactly.... wax is only a poor lube for those that are too lazy to wax often enough and properly clean the chain.
Used properly, it is the fastest and cleanest. Double win.

Folks don't have a choice but to wax the chain after a weekend of riding. A chirping chain is pretty annoying.

Wax is relativly clean and I'm sure it is fast for a 40K tt. Can't speak to longevity......I stopped waxing after 2-3 months. I was brewing beer that summer as well......I preferred doing that than performing chain voodoo.

In terms of what is best for bicycle chains, I rely on information from the likes of Campagnolo and Shimano.

[johnniecakes]

Where I work part time I meet with many vendors of power transmission components. These include gears, belts, sprockets and chains. I ask every engineer of chain suppliers about wax as a lube. I have never had any engineer tell me that wax is an acceptable lube. Companies spend millions on research and development of lubrication products.

Please ride what ever you prefer but in all the professional opinions and data I have been provided with not using an actual chain lubricant is "waxing" nostalgic back to a time when there were not as many good options

[makoti]

I've always been intrigued by waxing, but the frequency of it and replacing even master links every time stops me.
Riding 150 a week in season, I'd wax the chain weekly? Rotating in another chain would keep the bike on the road quickly, I guess. And the master links...a new one each time? I usually will stretch mine out for two uses, but more than that seems dicey & since I only pull the chain off once during its life right now, it works.
Currently an "NFS & wipe with a rag" guy.

[Dave]

Some of the previous posts point to why I use my home brew wax lube that contains some heavy weight oil. There is a real lubricant in the mix. No hot dipping, quick and easy relubing whenever needed without removing the chain. Dry and clean like hot waxing. I still prefer occasional chain removal for cleaning.

Wipperman quick links can be reused for the life of the chain, but their 12 speed chain and link have yet to be released.

[oldguy00]

Where I work part time I meet with many vendors of power transmission components. These include gears, belts, sprockets and chains. I ask every engineer of chain suppliers about wax as a lube. I have never had any engineer tell me that wax is an acceptable lube. Companies spend millions on research and development of lubrication products.

Please ride what ever you prefer but in all the professional opinions and data I have been provided with not using an actual chain lubricant is "waxing" nostalgic back to a time when there were not as many good options

Wax has been tested on bike chains to be just as slick and usually slicker than the best oils, even if only by a fraction. So knowing that it is just as fast , the real win then IMHO is the cleanliness of the wax. I love not having a grungy drivetrain, etc. I get that some people would think waxing a chain once every 1-2 weeks would be a pain, but some of us don't mind working on our bikes. And I've re-used my KMC quick links more times than I can remember.

[Dave]

As many have noted, there is never any evidence that pure paraffin works well as a lubricant. That's why I put heavy weight gear lube into my wax and naptha liquid lube. Today I did a little test to see how much oil in the paraffin was too much. I first took 2 ounces of paraffin and added 1 ounce of gear lube, then melted it down and mixed it well, before cooling it back down to hard wax. With that much oil in the paraffin, it scraped off the top of the hardened block, about the same as pure paraffin.

I then added another 1/2 ounce of gear lube and went through the same procedure. This time the paraffin was definitely soft and would probably leave more residue if it was mixed with naptha and then allowed to dry after applying it to a chain.

Unless my figures are off, I also figured that an ounce by weight of paraffin is about the same as a fluid ounce, so if you're mixing melted paraffin into naptha, both can be measured as a liquid.

With regard to how much solvent to mix with paraffin, it can be as low as 4 parts naptha to 1 part paraffin/oil mix, but the less solvent used, the warmer it must be before use. I suspect that some of the solvent has evaporated from my early batch of lube that's been sitting around in a water bottle for over a year.

With a 4/1 ratio, there is 4 ounces of naptha, and 1 ounce paraffin/oil that has .5 ounce of paraffin and .5 ounce of oil. That comes out to .5 ounce of oil in 5 ounces of lube, or 10%, which is a lot more than I have been reporting.

[JStonebarger]

As many have noted, there is never any evidence that pure paraffin works well as a lubricant...

Simply not true.

In 2013 the VeloNews/Friction Facts study (https://www.ceramicspeed.com/media/3505/velonews-friction-facts-chain-lube-tests-combined.pdf) showed straight parrafin wax performing much better than any commercially available lube at the time. The same and subsequent studies have also shown that most additives to parrafin don't help it's performance, they hurt it.

Rationalize your own mixture however you want, but actual evidence to the contrary is out there.

[gemship]

I've been riding with waxed chains on some of my bikes and thought I'd report on some findings. One of the things that's been interesting is how the need to rewax seems to manifest itself in a loud creaking noise when in a low gear. I had some low gear creaking noises on one of my bikes. I pulled the hub apart and couldn't see anything amiss. Bearings felt fine, no cracks, etc. It didn't yet occur to me that the chain needed a rewax because the creaking only happened when I was in a low gear and shifts seemed fine. I didn't have time to put everything back together and I set the wheel aside for a bit while I got some rides in on my other bikes. I then experienced the exact same sound on my other bikes - creaking, but only in low gear. I rewaxed all the chains and now all is good. Here's how many miles I got out of each bike:

Bike 1: 270mi
Bike 2: 120mi
Bike 3: 426mi

Bikes 1 and 2 are mountain bikes. Bikes 1 and 2 had some riding in some damp conditions. I seem to recall riding bike 1 in more damp conditions than bike 2, though bike 2 was subjected to some pounding rain while mounted to the roof of my car. Bike 3 is a gravel bike that saw a mix of mostly dry road and dirt conditions.

So when you go on to describe/say life of a waxed chain. Are you stating how long the wax stays on and ultimately does it's job?... because thats how it sounds to me. Honestly I don't ride a bicycle nearly as much as you or the contributing posters of this thread, nonetheless I am impressed with the longevity of your waxing all three bikes. 120 miles of riding a mtn. bike between chain lubes is huge IMHO and bike 2 being subjected to a rain storm well there you go as water is really good at penetration. Bike 3 truly sounds like you got your money's worth. Seriously is your starting this thread not just a wee bit of a humble brag?:p Honestly I think if you like waxing your chains and don't mind the cost then your ahead of the game. However I fall into the camp of believing waxing chains to be sorta expensive and time consuming.

Maybe waxing is cleaner but personally I prefer my homemade brew of three parts mineral spirits to one part 10w-40 motor oil. Because I always got that stuff around. It penetrates and my chains never rust except if I were to neglect them like leaving the bike outside or not lubing after a good soapy water bike cleaning. I also like to use my Park tool chain cleaning device with soapy water. From everything I read on this subject here in this thread I just don't see waxing chains as much of an advantage. I also tend to think what shortens a chain's life the most is the act of shifting. Chains stretch...

[Dave]

USimply not true.

In 2013 the VeloNews/Friction Facts study (https://www.ceramicspeed.com/media/3505/velonews-friction-facts-chain-lube-tests-combined.pdf) showed straight parrafin wax performing much better than any commercially available lube at the time. The same and subsequent studies have also shown that most additives to parrafin don't help it's performance, they hurt it.

Rationalize your own mixture however you want, but actual evidence to the contrary is out there.

You need to chill. I refer to THIS thread, not everything published in the last 6 years. If you have contradictory information, post it in a civilized manor. I post with the hope of helping others.

In the past, I've used other home brew lubes, like oil mixed with mineral spirits and I got good chain life from it, but it was extremely dirty. My current mixture of oil, paraffin and naptha is a huge improvement in cleanliness. I haven't used it long enough to get chain life data. Friction information showing 1 watt lower power consumption doesn't impress me.

Chain efficiency and chain life are not the same thing. MSW shows the same sort of result with their wax lube. I've never seen a test that included a clean, but totally dry chain in the comparison.

[gemship]

A well lubed chain thats totally clean sounds like an oxymoron.

[Dave]

A well lubed chain thats totally clean sounds like an oxymoron.

I used your lube for years and got good chain life from it, but it attracted a huge amount of dirt. Home brew liquid wax lube is a huge improvement. So far, I have no indication that chain life will suffer.

Also, soapy water is nearly worthless as a chain cleaner, as are bike mounted chain cleaning devices.

[gemship]

I used your lube for years and got good chain life from it, but it attracted a huge amount of dirt. Home brew lquid wax lube is a huge improvement. So far, I have no indication that chain life will suffer.

I have no doubt there for the simple fact that a big ride for me is twenty miles or so at a time. I never ride in the rain and I ride on nice dry days. It does attract dirt but I can make it look nice from a foot or two away with a rag and some more mineral spirits. More than likely if I did what you do I would probably be sold on it because it sounds great. ;) Actually it sounds like the perfect lube for the Oring chain on my motorcycle.

[weaponsgrade]

So when you go on to describe/say life of a waxed chain. Are you stating how long the wax stays on and ultimately does it's job?... because thats how it sounds to me. Honestly I don't ride a bicycle nearly as much as you or the contributing posters of this thread, nonetheless I am impressed with the longevity of your waxing all three bikes. 120 miles of riding a mtn. bike between chain lubes is huge IMHO and bike 2 being subjected to a rain storm well there you go as water is really good at penetration. Bike 3 truly sounds like you got your money's worth. Seriously is your starting this thread not just a wee bit of a humble brag?:p Honestly I think if you like waxing your chains and don't mind the cost then your ahead of the game. However I fall into the camp of believing waxing chains to be sorta expensive and time consuming.

Maybe waxing is cleaner but personally I prefer my homemade brew of three parts mineral spirits to one part 10w-40 motor oil. Because I always got that stuff around. It penetrates and my chains never rust except if I were to neglect them like leaving the bike outside or not lubing after a good soapy water bike cleaning. I also like to use my Park tool chain cleaning device with soapy water. From everything I read on this subject here in this thread I just don't see waxing chains as much of an advantage. I also tend to think what shortens a chain's life the most is the act of shifting. Chains stretch...

huh? 2 of the 3 mileage reports were under the 300 miles MSW states for rewaxing. One of them was less than half the 300. So I'm not quite sure how that can be considered bragging. I posted b/c I'm interested in hearing real world reports of what kind of mileage people are getting - especially dirt miles.

[fmradio516]

What is the "on the shelf" life of a waxed chain? Like, lets say someone only does 300 miles of riding over 6 months. Is it possible they'll be able to ride the whole season without ever swapping in a chain? Or is it kinda like oil changes where they say every 5k miles or 6months, whichever comes first?

[Dave]

Here's a link to some info on bicycle chain efficiency. This is what's missing from the MSW test - how much worse is using no lube at all, if all you care about is friction loss and not chain life?

https://pages.jh.edu/~news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html

The Johns Hopkins engineers made another interesting discovery when they looked at the role of lubricants. The team purchased three popular products used to "grease" a bicycle chain: a wax-based lubricant, a synthetic oil and a "dry" lithium-based spray lubricant. In lab tests comparing the three products, there was no significant difference in energy efficiency. "Then we removed any lubricant from the chain and ran the test again," Spicer recalls. "We were surprised to find that the efficiency was essentially the same as when it was lubricated."

The researcher speculates that a bicycle lubricant does not play a critical role under clean lab conditions, using a brand new chain. But it may contribute to energy efficiency in the rugged outdoors. "The role of the lubricant, as far as we can tell, is to take up space so that dirt doesn't get into the chain," Spicer says. "The lubricant is essentially a clean substance that fills up the spaces so that dirt doesn't get into the critical portions of the chain where the parts are very tightly meshed. But in lab conditions, where there is no dirt, it makes no difference. On the road, we believe the lubricant mostly assumes the role of keeping out dirt, which could very well affect friction in the drive train."

[oldguy00]

Dave,
Your homebrew mix, how clean is it, like if you grab your chain with your hand, or what gets deposited on your drivetrain?

The fact that wax happens to test a watt or so faster than other lubes really means nothing to me, its the cleanliness I love.

As for chain life, I put a new chain on every May before race season, gets me through the summer, and then continue to use that chain all through the winter until the next May.

I never really bother to check wear, and shifting has always been perfect, and have yet to wear out any drivetrain parts.

But I may be an outlier in that outside of my races, almost all my training is indoors, so not as much dirt as other people might see..

Cheers

[fmradio516]

Dave,
Your homebrew mix, how clean is it, like if you grab your chain with your hand, or what gets deposited on your drivetrain?

The fact that wax happens to test a watt or so faster than other lubes really means nothing to me, its the cleanliness I love.

As for chain life, I put a new chain on every May before race season, gets me through the summer, and then continue to use that chain all through the winter until the next May.

I never really bother to check wear, and shifting has always been perfect, and have yet to wear out any drivetrain parts.

But I may be an outlier in that outside of my races, almost all my training is indoors, so not as much dirt as other people might see..

Cheers

This is good to know. Ill probably go waxed if this is the case. I only ride offroad on my mountain bike, so i can just use reg lube on that, and then wax my pavement buddies.

[MikeD]

Here's a link to some info on bicycle chain efficiency. This is what's missing from the MSW test - how much worse is using no lube at all, if all you care about is friction loss and not chain life?



https://pages.jh.edu/~news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html



The Johns Hopkins engineers made another interesting discovery when they looked at the role of lubricants. The team purchased three popular products used to "grease" a bicycle chain: a wax-based lubricant, a synthetic oil and a "dry" lithium-based spray lubricant. In lab tests comparing the three products, there was no significant difference in energy efficiency. "Then we removed any lubricant from the chain and ran the test again," Spicer recalls. "We were surprised to find that the efficiency was essentially the same as when it was lubricated."


I wonder if using an IR camera to measure frictional losses as heat is that accurate compared to the method used by the Friction Facts dudes.

Unless you're a racer in a time trial where fractions of a second matter, measuring wattage differences among chain lubes is an exercise in futility. The differences are irrelevant.

My criteria on choosing a chain lube is how easy it is to apply and remove, longevity, cleanliness, corrosion protection, and quietness. Pure wax fails for me, but Smoove is my current favorite along with Lilly Lube.

On wax, sure it may have low friction on a freshly waxed chain, but what after 100 miles? Wax is a solid lubricant and gets forced out of the bearing area by pressure, and doesn't flow back in because it's solid, not liquid.

[JStonebarger]

This is good to know. Ill probably go waxed if this is the case. I only ride offroad on my mountain bike, so i can just use reg lube on that, and then wax my pavement buddies.

Wax has some advantages in dirt, too. In cyclocross I'm impressed by how much less crap the chain collects. One trip through a sand pit was enough to sell me.

[Dave]

I'm sure that pure paraffin will be the cleanest lube, but I also suspect that most users are riding with no lube at all, before they take the chain off for another hot dip. If you want the cleanest chain, then pure paraffin dissolved in naptha would be far more convenient than hot dipping.

As more oil is mixed with paraffin, the more it starts to act like a grease and the less clean it becomes. I get a little black residue deposited on my sprockets and RD pulleys after 500 miles, but it's very minor compared to any oily lube I've ever used. If you run your fingers along the chain, after some use, you will get some minor dark material on your fingers, but it is dry. I put a very small amount of naptha on a paper shop towel and wipe the chain occasionally by turning the cranks backwards, to remove some of the excess wax that pushes it's way out.

[gemship]

huh? 2 of the 3 mileage reports were under the 300 miles MSW states for rewaxing. One of them was less than half the 300. So I'm not quite sure how that can be considered bragging. I posted b/c I'm interested in hearing real world reports of what kind of mileage people are getting - especially dirt miles.

It sounds decent to me but I'm no expert. Maybe your not doing it right?...or using the same great stuff. Or the stuff you got is defective? Have you tried watching a video on how to do it? I know it sounds silly but you never know.

Honestly from a dirt riding perspective I think the knowledge base of this forum might actually be lacking...despite the myriad of brainiacs.:rolleyes:

[Rusty Luggs]

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/fast-chain-lube-that-saves-you-money/

[John H.]

I was riding in the rain today- On my bike with a chain waxed with Molten Speed wax.
1.) I was amazed at how quiet it was.
2.) Double amazed at how quickly and easily it washed up-

[makoti]

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/fast-chain-lube-that-saves-you-money/

Good to know that if I'm not going to wax, I'm using the preferred lube, NFS. Didn't know there was a difference between the Silca version & the original.

[BdaGhisallo]

I was riding in the rain today- On my bike with a chain waxed with Molten Speed wax.
1.) I was amazed at how quiet it was.
2.) Double amazed at how quickly and easily it washed up-

That's been my experience too. Pleasantly surprising after hearing for years that rain will wash away wax in a heartbeat. I have done multiple wet rides back to back and have not noticed any increase in chain noise nor a (presumably) associated loss of lubrication.

[JStonebarger]

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/fast-chain-lube-that-saves-you-money/

"Best-in-class for both durability and friction, regardless of conditions" sounds about right.

"The application process is more involved than most people would like" is true as well, but doesn't tell the whole story. Think it out and waxing doesn't take too long. Factor in drivetrain cleaning time and waxing is a time saver. Besides, it's a luxury to handle bikes without the mess of a drip lube. For cross races or vacation we might have two bikes inside our car--a huge PIA before we started waxing.

[Krenovian]

The results of the testing reported on the http://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/ website convinced me to switch to MSW and Smoove. I swap chains out every 180 miles or so rather than waiting until the chain gets noisy. If a chain does start to sound noisy before 180 miles I swap it out sooner. I rarely ride in wet conditions. Riding is 50/50 pavement and dirt.

Three chains are used in rotation with MSW. Once the 3rd chain in the rotation comes off the bike I clean all three by dipping in boiling water followed by an alcohol bath. Then into the Crock Pot with MSW.

I have one chain treated with Smoove which is reserved for events that may be wet and or muddy or 200 miles or longer.

Previous 15 years I used T9 as a lube. I would get between 100-200 mi before chains would become noisy depending on conditions. Biggest draw backs were having to wait 3-4 hours after an application before riding and the accumulation of lube on the chain and cassette after multiple applicatons.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[clarendon]

I found this thread informative - thanks to all for sharing your experiences. At the risk of resurrecting the discussion, have any of you experience with Squirt as compared to MSW, Silca Super Secret, NFS and the other solutions mentioned here?

Am currently using Squirt but Kerin's site seems to suggest that this causes a lot of drivetrain wear (~20%?) in the first few hundred km after a proper clean. It also accumulates dark waxy smudges on the cassette - nothing major and better than a wet lube but still pretty difficult to shift. Am considering MSW for the promise of reduced wear on a SR12 drivetrain and general cleanliness, although somewhat put off by the workload involved!

[NHAero]

Using Squirt on multiple bikes for 14 months, 5,000 miles, wipe down and lube roughly every three rides on each, and no measurable wear on any of the chains using the Pedro's chain checker with the three hooks. Chain and cogs are acceptably clean. I have 30% of the first 4 oz. bottle left even after fairly liberal usage. Bought two more bottles recently seeing a deal on eBay.

Not saying this is the best lube of all time, but it's working for me as far as I can tell.

[weaponsgrade]

I just rewaxed the chain on my gravel bike last week. I was at 282 miles. No creaking, but shifting across cogs didn't seem as smooth as it used to be. Everything's nice and smooth now.

[IJWS]

A friend that used to work at CeramicSpeed told me that Squirt was their in-house lube...complete hearsay. I'm using the expensive Silca stuff and I'm sold. Anything that I can use without a crockpot!

Using Squirt on multiple bikes for 14 months, 5,000 miles, wipe down and lube roughly every three rides on each, and no measurable wear on any of the chains using the Pedro's chain checker with the three hooks. Chain and cogs are acceptably clean. I have 30% of the first 4 oz. bottle left even after fairly liberal usage. Bought two more bottles recently seeing a deal on eBay.

Not saying this is the best lube of all time, but it's working for me as far as I can tell.