Is a sloping top tube traditional??

[jrisles]

Hi again guys

Again reading through the forums i find that there are alot of bicycles that are customed made with a very slight sloping top tube - between 1 - 2 degrees of slope. Can you tell me if this is traditional. Personally i prefer a horizontal top tube with no slope at all. (I really can't come at these new compact frames with the severe sloping top tubes, they just don't do it for me).

And what advantages if any does a top tube with a slight slope offer the cyclist?

cheers
Jeff
Brisbane, Australia

[Andreu]

I would say if you don't like the look of it then don't buy it. I am with you on that point.
As for advantages and disadvantages I would say I am no expert on this. I have asked the same question and there are some compelling arguments for a sloping top tube ..some believable others not. I tried to find some links in this forum as I did ask the same question some time back and got some good replies but I cannot find them (Apologies!)...someone else may be in a better position to answer your question.
A :beer:

[gabbard]

A slightly sloping top tube gives you the ability to have a slightly higher stem without having a headtube extension, but allows a bit more clearance than a horizontal TT frame that would be big enough to get the stem up. Say your legs are long proportional to your torso, but you don't want a frame that is big. A slope will allow you to get the bars up higher in a smaller frame. For TT's in the 55-60 cm range, you get about 1 cm rise per degree.

Now, if you go to a greater slope, you deal with some other issues. You get a smaller, lighter, stiffer frame. Ahh, but the seatpost is longer and weighs more, you say. But, a longer seatpost has more flex, and might provide more comfort. So, in theory, as you go to a more compact frame, you get a frame that is stiffer out of the saddle, might be more comfortble, and might be lighter, but you suffer some aesthetic problems. Your choice...

Steve

[Needs Help]

Traditional = no slope to the top tube

Compact = sloping top tube

1-2 degrees of slope = Traditional looking because it's hard to notice.

Some people prefer the look of a sloping top tube to the look of riser stems, head tube extensions, and lots of spacers which may be required to get the handlebars high enough. In addition, standover height can be an issue. Some people may not like the lack of standover clearance required on their traditional frame in order get the handlebars high enough--the solution can be to slope the top tube down to the seat tube. Also, on larger frames with extremely tall rear triangles, I suspect the engineering might be better with a sloping top tube and the correspondingly smaller rear triangle.

[Kevan]

are there any notable frame builders downunder that we might find of interest? Websites, if any?

Maybe a bike made from slightly used didjeridus? :D

[Serotta PETE]

Sloping is not traditional in road bikes. Traditional to me meaning you have bikes that were built in prior to mid 1990s. I think here in the USA the trend started with mountain bikes and then carried over to a few road frames. It is definitly not in the majority. Some manufactures seem to really focus on it (Giant and Specialized to name 2).

For reasons previously mentioned it has a "value" to a few folks and then others stay far far away.

Value of compact vs traditional (no slope) can be argued over many glasses of wine. I am from the ole time and love the classic looks (no sloping TT or compact)

PETE

[dirtdigger88]

I think the compact geo. make scence for the company building the bike. They can have three or four sizes to fit everyone instead of what 12 or 16 on standard geo. I like compact on my MTB, not on my road bike. Just my own opinion, nothing else.

jason

[csb]

can you imagine how much faster lance would be if
he rode a compact _ he'll probably buy one for her

[Speedi Pig]

My new Legend has a very slight slope to it. My situation was exactly as Gabbard described above: long legs relative to my torso with the addition of rather poor flexibility. My fit technician told me I had three choices (1) flat TT and lots of spacers, (2) flat TT and a sloping stem (like my old bike), or (3) sloping TT.

I wasn't at all sold on the slope at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I liked it...makes the frame more of a "one of a kind"...something very subtle specifically designed to accomodate ME. If you saw the bike not sitting next to a bike with a flat TT or some other obvious horizontal reference and no one pointed it out, you almost certainly would not see it. It's posted in the gallery as the Speedy Pig II if you want a look.

Someone said on this forum a week or two ago that if you order a custom frame because you don't fit well on something off the rack, pretty much by definition, your geometry won't look "normal."

Good Luck!!

[va rider]

I'm with you Pig. Long legs, short torso. So, a slightly sloping tt works great for me.

My fitter asked me if I would mind a slightly sloping tt. I told him, I want the best fit I can get, the tt slope really didn't matter to me. So, I ended up with a 4 degree tt slope. This brought the handlebars up to about a 4-5 cm drop from my saddle.

If I didn't need the bars up, I would go with a traditional flat tt.

Though I will tell you, I love riding the bike that fits me. I really could care less about the look. Check it out in the image gallery.

[Peter]

They're mostly a gimmick, but they do have a place in today's market.

And it depends whether you think they slope "up" or "down".

They're a gimmick to me because while they were originally touted as being "stiffer" and lighter due to the smaller frame, a longer seatpost is needed which negates any weight savings. And stiffness is overrated.

They are a worthwhile option if you're short and need standover clearance. Then perhaps in your mind, they slope "down".

They are a worthwhile option if you prefer a more upright position in today's world of limited adjustability threadless stems; then you want a frame that slopes "up". Of course, it will still need to slope "down" near the seat tube so you don't lose vital standover clearance for safety. Have I lost you?

[dbrk]

I think Needs Help got the point, along with many others here. I would only add that any slope of less than 2d is nearly impossible to notice especially on an oversized tubed bike. I love horizontal top tubes but if the tubing is OS then building a taller bike without any headtube extension is a fine thing. Personally, I would prefer a real compact of 6d to any bike with a headtube extension, a slew of spacers (I'm no fan of threadless as a solution to anything), and riser stems, all of which are unnecessary aesthetic compromises much less attractive than just going for the sloper. I put a Seven Axiom on eBay this week that is a 6d sloper with no spacers. The line of the stem (84d) nicely (to my eye) follows the line of the top tube; no spacers worth noticing, an "uncompromised compact", if you will. (You can find it using my eBay moniker: stenouvelledescycles) But all things considered I would much rather than a horiztonal/traditional top tube or just 1-2d of slope. Compacts are fun, the look all modern, I think they are swell. Both traditionalist and compact can look great in their own contexts but either can look less great if the solutions to fit are filled with compromises (smokestack spacers, big rise on the stem, all the usual things I rail about that don't suit my own tastes).

But all things in all things, the threadless steerer is easily the worst aesthetic move in the last twenty five years unless it is handled with extreme delicacy, that is, if you can fit properly without spacers up the wazoo and rise of less than 90d. We are _not_ talking about compromising fit, which I would never do, we are talking about fit solutions (there are always more than one). When I see the fit solutions that many fitters come up with I just sigh or weep, as the case may be.


dbrk

[jrisles]

Kevan

You said;
are there any notable frame builders downunder that we might find of interest? Websites, if any?

Well as it turns out there are a couple of frame builders here in Aus .. only a couple i might add that i have found mostly from the people from this forum of all places.

The ones that i have discovered so far are;

Llewellyn Bikes - http://www.llewellynbikes.com/main.htm
Ciobombola Bikes - http://www.ciombola.com/main.html
Hillbrick Cycles - http://www.hillbrick.com.au

There are others but these are the only ones that i have found that actually have their own websites. Dnovo actually has a Llewellyn frame (amongst many other bikes i have since learned) here is a link to the posting of a pic of his Llewellyn bike. ( http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=2422 )

If anyone has any other info on good Australian made frames i'd be interested to hear. I am actually wondering if it would be a good idea to start up a bicycle shop here in Brisbane that sells only hand made steel frame bicycles and importing a heap of American brands as well as stocking Aussie brands. Not too sure how the demand would be though in this country considering all the C'dales, Giants, Treks and Avanti's i see on the road. But wouldn't i have fun ... :)

cheers
Jeff
Brisbane, Australia

[eddief]

My Rex with sloping top tube finally has gotten me a bike that fits, I mean really fits. After jerking around for so long with off the rack lugged, not lugged, level top tubed bikes; the answer in looks, proportion, and fit was a sloper. I am partial to lugged, level top tubed bikes. Unfortunately there is no way for me to get the bars up, have some/enough post showing, and avoid absurd uppy stems and spacers in a tradional frame. Ah how we have to sacrifice and compromise.

[BigMac]

jrisles:

There is a builder located a bit south of you along the northern coast of New South Wales named Teshner, his 1st name is Peter or Keith I do not recall at present. His shop is NE of Sydney, supposedly near midway between Sydney and Brisbane. A friend located here in northern California has one which he has used for several DC's. He has ridden a Merlin EL in past, he swears the Teshner is equally smooth and comfortable as his Merlin, yet shed over 600 grams using similar components. Ok, he's one of these guys that actually weighs his bike, I've even seen him weigh individual components but he's also a reasonably strong rider who loves his Teshner.

I'd be surprised if you have not heard of these bikes, they are very popular among the Aussie triathaletes and I've seen several on the roads during my annual travels down under. Now these frames are not for everyone, they are very 'modern' designs, very reminescent of Pegoretti's, Cervelo's, current DeRosa, etc. Shaped aluminum tubes, agressive angles, short fat stays, bold graphics and colors, etc. I'm not sure if he's custom-only or if he offers off-the-peg models as well, my buddies is custom sized. I would consider the basic design very dissimilar to anything Serotta builds, but its a local builder with a good reputation that will avoid any import difficulties, unless of course Serotta has an Aussie importer-distributor, do they?

Ride on!

[jeffg]

jrisles:

There is a builder located a bit south of you along the northern coast of New South Wales named Teshner, his 1st name is Peter or Keith I do not recall at present. His shop is NE of Sydney, supposedly near midway between Sydney and Brisbane. A friend located here in northern California has one which he has used for several DC's.

BigMac --

Just a guess ... does this fellow with the Teschner have an affinity for parts by a certain Italian company? ;) If so, he's a real nice guy. I bet I'll see him at the Terrible Two ...

[Needs Help]

bold graphics and colors
Doesn't dnovo have a Teshner? I'm picturing that bike with the chrome lugs and the effervescent pink and green paint.