how to start a fake wheel company !!!

[dancinkozmo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bb7eCgLbLI

[54ny77]

That there is GOLD! :banana: :cool: :p

[fignon's barber]

Seems about right.

[Veloo]

He kinda sounds like Hambini.

[oldpotatoe]

No surprise....even cheaper using private label hubs altho as the gent mentions, not as durable..More than a few of these companies mentioned, mentioned here also. :)

They can be fine wheels tho but there's some 'marketing' going on when you see the retail price via some of these websites..

:)

[AngryScientist]

haha, absolutely correct!

"they want to be half-blinded by science"

gold!

[nighthawk]

You mean like this:

https://hplusson.com.au/

[charliedid]

'love'

[CDM]

Be carefully. Entertaining content..very well done.
Dark Install. Do your own research

[oldpotatoe]

You mean like this:

https://hplusson.com.au/

Not exactly, since they are piggy backing on H+Son rims. Wonder if H+Son knows they are using their name for these hubs. No mention of hubs on H+Son website nor mention of this place under 'dealers' in Australia.

And Most rims are 'out of stock'..hmmm..

But it would be similar if they bought un-labeled rims, hubs or wheels...then slapped their name on them, 'WheelsDownUndaMate'..and doubled or tripled the wholesale cost for retail.

[nighthawk]

Not exactly, since they are piggy backing on H+Son rims. Wonder if H+Son knows they are using their name for these hubs. No mention of hubs on H+Son website nor mention of this place under 'dealers' in Australia.

And Most rims are 'out of stock'..hmmm..

But it would be similar if they bought un-labeled rims, hubs or wheels...then slapped their name on them, 'WheelsDownUndaMate'..and doubled or tripled the wholesale cost for retail.

They know about it and the hubs are unauthorized.
http://hplusson.com/news

Pretty bold move if you ask me.

[zzy]

This is dead on. Joytech/Novatech hubs and farsports/kinlin rims are decent enough that pretty much anyone can rebrand them for big $. Carbon or alu rims. With a decent builder and a tension meter you can knock out 15 quality sets a day. If they're made in China that number goes thru the roof.

It's really gross how opaque rebranding is with bicycles. OEMs have been doing it for ages and now carbon allows anyone to get in the game. We had a company here in NYC called SPcarbon which did this to a absurd degree compete with handmade in NYC stickers on Chinese bikes and even lying about having a FEA engineer on staff.

[oldpotatoe]

http://hplusson.com/news

HA..I just sent an email to H+Son asking if they knew of this company...

Wonder if the rims are indeed 'H+Son'.....

But back to OP, lots of 'wheel companies' out there that buy private label stuff, slap their logo on them, and charge MUCH more than wholesale $...
More than a few are indeed nothing more than a computer and a warehouse and sales lizards..these wheels don't even get outta the box, just received, then shipped.
With a decent builder and a tension meter you can knock out 15 quality sets a day.

Builders maybe..30 wheels a day starting with spokes, rims and hubs..that's a lot. 'maybe' 8-10 WHEELS a day(8 hour day)...Maybe with a lacing or building machine, get 'em laced and kinda close and then some beanbag finishes them..but those are expensive.

[redir]

I've definitely had a set of Install Wheels in the past LOL!

[tsarpepe]

Don't miss also his tutorial on "How to Make Your Own Boutique Cycling Clothing Brand!"
(favorite bit: 12.30 - 12.55)

[charliedid]

Be carefully. Entertaining content..very well done.
Dark Install. Do your own research

Research regarding what exactly?

[nooneline]

Research regarding what exactly?

spoken like someone who hasn't done their research

[charliedid]

spoken like someone who hasn't done their research

Research what?

[nooneline]

Research what?

exactly what you oughta research

[charliedid]

exactly what you oughta research

Are you just entertaining yourself?

[CDM]

Search DarkInstall....

[charliedid]

Search DarkInstall....

What will I find? I Googled it and found nothing really...

Are you guys just cautious or a little paranoid? If I am being dumb and naive give me some better understanding of which dark forces are after me?

Seriously.

[Pegoready]

That was entertaining, but I'd love to know if he actually sold any his "Install" wheels.

Add in product liability insurance, costs to set up an LLC, the inevitable need to store product somewhere, a % lost to warranty claims and outdated dead product, your time answering questions, and the $1000/profit per wheelset quickly reduces to bike industry pay rates which are quite low.

[Black Dog]

What will I find? I Googled it and found nothing really...

Are you guys just cautious or a little paranoid? If I am being dumb and naive give me some better understanding of which dark forces are after me?

Seriously.

I am with you. Folks should stop being so cryptic and snarky. Just be polite and to the point.

[unterhausen]

I didn't understand these comments either, but I figure if they wanted to make a point they would have and so I moved on.

I would like to see him do one about carbon bikes. Back in the mail order days, I knew someone that did this with Campagnolo parts as a teenager. Not sure his business ever took off, but he actually stocked a reasonable amount of product. That was when you could just order from Italy.

[ElvisMerckx]

Add in product liability insurance, costs to set up an LLC, the inevitable need to store product somewhere, a % lost to warranty claims and outdated dead product, your time answering questions, and the $1000/profit per wheelset quickly reduces to bike industry pay rates which are quite low.

Exactly. Now throw in health insurance, retirement savings, and all of the other load that goes with being self-employed, and you have yourself a failing business.

The video is also unfairly lumping in legit businesses that hire and employ folks and sell proprietary rims. Simple-minded and irresponsible vlogging, if you ask me.

[CDM]

Everyone wants great carbon wheels for wholesale. This guy is clever and talented and many are salivating on his posts. Check out his life advice..43..or whatever.
Very timely as David Kirk posted about reality. This clown..talented clown is killing virtual reality.

[AngryScientist]

haha, are you guys serious?

yes, you are. way too serious that is.

that video was an entertaining spoofish joke. anyone who even remotely considered that a serious "instructional" video on how to start a business is way, way out to lunch.

c'mon guys, really. have a little sense of humor.

https://cdn.drawception.com/drawings/PMVaFVZX38.png

[pbarry]

For real, not real.

[45K10]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bb7eCgLbLI

That was hilarious, thanks for posting

[saab2000]

I'm going to throw out a thought on this, particularly since Boyd Wheels is one of the companies whose website flashed through the beginning part of the video.

I, like others here, have a couple sets of Boyd wheels. Many of the components are sourced in Taiwan. This isn't a secret AFAIK. They are assembled in South Carolina by real folks who build a quality product. Boyd is a real person (I've met him) who rides like us and is trying to make a living. I don't think there's anything fake about his wheel company.

My Boyd wheels are very basic wheels any competent wheel builder could assemble. I have zero complaints. Local wheel builders may or may not be 'competent'. I have no way of knowing. I only know that what I've seen of Boyd is that he takes this seriously and has some relevant thoughts on wheel geometry and hub design. Mine are Altamont Lites, one with White Industries hubs and one with his 85 branded hubs. Both sets have been reliable and easy to own and have never needed a single spoke tweak, probably because they are properly stress relieved and because he and his builders have assembled thousands of wheels, so they know what they're doing.

It is easy to dismiss a lot of the bike business as hokey marketing dribble, and much of it is, but I think consumers are just as guilty as the hokey marketers for falling for it.

If someone has unrealistic expectations they are likely to be unmet. If we know what we are buying we are likely to be satisfied. My Boyd Altamont Lites are fine for what they are: daily use training wheels which have a quality, zippy feel to them.

His website flashed across this video and I thought a bit of a counterpoint is worthwhile. He is not fake, nor are the wheels he sells.

[PaMtbRider]

I enjoyed the video for it's entertainment value. Consumer be aware. I am sure there are some sleazebag companies out there doing exactly as described in the video. Do your research and you will find companies like Boyd, Next, and a few others are putting a little more into the product than just ordering stock components, adding their branding and making a profit.

[adub]

Video is spot on and the exact reason I stick with Specialized, Cannondale, etc..

[unterhausen]

His website flashed across this video and I thought a bit of a counterpoint is worthwhile. He is not fake, nor are the wheels he sells.
the other site that flashes through is Psimet. I know he is a wheelbuilder and a rider. He's not running a fake wheelbuilding company either.

I thought the video was pretty funny. I'm a little surprised that he couldn't come up with better examples of people following his model, I 'm sure there are some

[ftf]

I'm going to throw out a thought on this, particularly since Boyd Wheels is one of the companies whose website flashed through the beginning part of the video.

I, like others here, have a couple sets of Boyd wheels. Many of the components are sourced in Taiwan. This isn't a secret AFAIK. They are assembled in South Carolina by real folks who build a quality product. Boyd is a real person (I've met him) who rides like us and is trying to make a living. I don't think there's anything fake about his wheel company.

My Boyd wheels are very basic wheels any competent wheel builder could assemble. I have zero complaints. Local wheel builders may or may not be 'competent'. I have no way of knowing. I only know that what I've seen of Boyd is that he takes this seriously and has some relevant thoughts on wheel geometry and hub design. Mine are Altamont Lites, one with White Industries hubs and one with his 85 branded hubs. Both sets have been reliable and easy to own and have never needed a single spoke tweak, probably because they are properly stress relieved and because he and his builders have assembled thousands of wheels, so they know what they're doing.

It is easy to dismiss a lot of the bike business as hokey marketing dribble, and much of it is, but I think consumers are just as guilty as the hokey marketers for falling for it.

If someone has unrealistic expectations they are likely to be unmet. If we know what we are buying we are likely to be satisfied. My Boyd Altamont Lites are fine for what they are: daily use training wheels which have a quality, zippy feel to them.

His website flashed across this video and I thought a bit of a counterpoint is worthwhile. He is not fake, nor are the wheels he sells.

What exactly is the difference between a wheel laced together in South Carolina, and the same parts laced together in Taiwan/China?

[coachboyd]

What exactly is the difference between a wheel laced together in South Carolina, and the same parts laced together in Taiwan/China?

Well, for one we have our own tooling for all of our rim models, and our hubs are unique to us as well. So, where the video may be an attempt at being humourous by an "internet celebrity", we shouldn't all take it as gospel.

I know there are a lot of "sticker" companies out there where the stickers on the wheels are the only unique things about the wheels. In our case though, we invest in the tooling for our unique rim shapes and hub designs. We also work with the factory to set up our specific QC procedures and then have people going to the factory to do QC as well. It's really more on the level on how a Roval or DT Swiss operate.

But hey, we are successful enough for somebody to make a video about it. . .so, sweet!!

[coachboyd]

I enjoyed the video for it's entertainment value. Consumer be aware. I am sure there are some sleazebag companies out there doing exactly as described in the video. Do your research and you will find companies like Boyd, Next, and a few others are putting a little more into the product than just ordering stock components, adding their branding and making a profit.

You should talk to me before calling me a sleazebag. I'll internet cry ;-(

[ftf]

Well, for one we have our own tooling for all of our rim models, and our hubs are unique to us as well. So, where the video may be an attempt at being humourous by an "internet celebrity", we shouldn't all take it as gospel.

I know there are a lot of "sticker" companies out there where the stickers on the wheels are the only unique things about the wheels. In our case though, we invest in the tooling for our unique rim shapes and hub designs. We also work with the factory to set up our specific QC procedures and then have people going to the factory to do QC as well. It's really more on the level on how a Roval or DT Swiss operate.

But hey, we are successful enough for somebody to make a video about it. . .so, sweet!!

Since you have your own tooling, and I can't get them anywhere else, who is making the rims and hubs?

[redir]

You should talk to me before calling me a sleazebag. I'll internet cry ;-(

I think you misunderstood what he was saying.

Even the wise old sage wheel builders of yore used to buy what ever hub and what ever rim but it was their skill at wheel building, and their skill at selecting compatible parts, that made the wheels. They didn't buy cheap Japanese wheelsets and slap a sticker on it. That's what that video was making fun of but apparently the writer of that little skit was unaware of how you and the others mentioned operate.

And... It's just a joke anyway.

[coachboyd]

I think you misunderstood what he was saying.

Even the wise old sage wheel builders of yore used to buy what ever hub and what ever rim but it was their skill at wheel building, and their skill at selecting compatible parts, that made the wheels. They didn't buy cheap Japanese wheelsets and slap a sticker on it. That's what that video was making fun of but apparently the writer of that little skit was unaware of how you and the others mentioned operate.

And... It's just a joke anyway.

ha! Oops. . proof reading was never my strong suit. It's why I accidentally made 250 beer coasters with the name of our booth location wrong at Taichung Bike Week.

I apologize for the over-reaction.

[cribbit]

That was entertaining, but I'd love to know if he actually sold any his "Install" wheels.

Add in product liability insurance, costs to set up an LLC, the inevitable need to store product somewhere, a % lost to warranty claims and outdated dead product, your time answering questions, and the $1000/profit per wheelset quickly reduces to bike industry pay rates which are quite low.

As if those doing this are going to that level. Many of them are just ghost shops that don't respond to any customer service issues and if the pressure gets too high, close and reopen under another URL.

[unterhausen]

if the idea is to ghost people when it starts getting too expensive, you probably don't want to have your logo under the clear coat. Get the sticker option so you can change company names easily.

[redir]

ha! Oops. . proof reading was never my strong suit. It's why I accidentally made 250 beer coasters with the name of our booth location wrong at Taichung Bike Week.

I apologize for the over-reaction.

Hey if ya have any left over I'll take one anyway :D

[mcc21]

wouldnt it be easier for us to buy straight from farsports .. for their warranty etc issues?

[Lanternrouge]

What exactly is the difference between a wheel laced together in South Carolina, and the same parts laced together in Taiwan/China?

I'd say not much if the wheel builders perform just as well. I've known plenty of people who've had really wide ranges of experiences with handbuilt wheels.

[54ny77]

The absolutely longest lasting, treated like crap, raced on, trained on, beat on, barely maintained set of wheels I ever had were handbuilts by Len of Bike Nook fame in San Francisco. They lasted a good dozen years or so and were still perfectly good when I sold the bike that they were on.

Len's wheelbuilds were legendary. As was his shop.

RIP Bike Nook!

The absolute biggest POS wheels were some training wheels from an old brand that's similar to the video, a company that had branded wheels made under their name & stickers. It was called Neuvation. Good lordy were those things utter crap. Sheared cassette pawls, exploded hub flanges (while on a ride!), crap bearings, etc. etc. And I didn't beat those wheels up by any stretch of the imagination. Just plain riding along. Garbage wheels but ironically incredibly good customer service. The owner did his best to right the situations every time. Narrowed the issues down to a bad manufacturing batch.

One of the bigger challenges is getting a set of handbuilts from a small independent builder who generally doesn't have a pot to piss in when it comes to replacement and/or warranty issues. That's why it's good to work thru a bike shop who has a good builder in-house.

I've known plenty of people who've had really wide ranges of experiences with handbuilt wheels.

[marciero]

I looked at the video as satire, watched part of the cycling clothing one as well. It's the extreme cynical view, since, as was pointed out, what the video describes would be an actual wheel company, not a fake one.

I can see where a company like Boyd (which I recall riding by by chance when I was in South Carolina-an actual brick-and-mortar) could take issue at being labelled as "fake". Isnt that libel, or whatever the term is when you do it to a company?

[oldpotatoe]

SAAB writes
My Boyd wheels are very basic wheels any competent wheel builder could assemble. I have zero complaints. Local wheel builders may or may not be 'competent'. I have no way of knowing. I only know that what I've seen of Boyd is that he takes this seriously and has some relevant thoughts on wheel geometry and hub design. Mine are Altamont Lites, one with White Industries hubs and one with his 85 branded hubs. Both sets have been reliable and easy to own and have never needed a single spoke tweak, probably because they are properly stress relieved and because he and his builders have assembled thousands of wheels, so they know what they're doing.

Well to continue on with this thread, very interesting from this wheelbuilder, and NOT saying this true of Boyd wheels or any other maker mentioned....

A website with slick copy may not be 'competent' either. Only way to 'know' is ask those who have had wheels made or buy some yourself..just like you did with Boyd, except sight un-seen. A lot of bike shop wheelbuilders may have "relevent thoughts on wheel geometry and hub design", but the proof, as they say, 'is in the pudding'.

BIG advantage to Boyd and others..is $ spent by you, using private label and some branded, stuff. Add in some good copy AND reliable wheels..and you have a wheel company.

[oldpotatoe]

I looked at the video as satire, watched part of the cycling clothing one as well. It's the extreme cynical view, since, as was pointed out, what the video describes would be an actual wheel company, not a fake one.

I can see where a company like Boyd (which I recall riding by by chance when I was in South Carolina-an actual brick-and-mortar) could take issue at being labelled as "fake". Isn't that libel, or whatever the term is when you do it to a company?

Libel-
Defamation, calumny, vilification, or traducement is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual person, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation.

Wow, some big words in there..BUT..why on earth would Boyd spend the YUGE $ to sue this guy, when the 'return' would be a whole lot of nuthin??

[unterhausen]

A judgement would probably be unenforceable, except I'm sure utube would take down the video. But I would be wary of the Streisand effect, most people probably don't notice the websites he looks at in the video.

[coachboyd]

Libel-


Wow, some big words in there..BUT..why on earth would Boyd spend the YUGE $ to sue this guy, when the 'return' would be a whole lot of nuthin??

Yeah, there'd be no way I'd ever spend anything to try and shut down a parody video that has some information wrong. I mean it's not like we make red bikes!

[charliedid]

I'm going to throw out a thought on this, particularly since Boyd Wheels is one of the companies whose website flashed through the beginning part of the video.

I, like others here, have a couple sets of Boyd wheels. Many of the components are sourced in Taiwan. This isn't a secret AFAIK. They are assembled in South Carolina by real folks who build a quality product. Boyd is a real person (I've met him) who rides like us and is trying to make a living. I don't think there's anything fake about his wheel company.

My Boyd wheels are very basic wheels any competent wheel builder could assemble. I have zero complaints. Local wheel builders may or may not be 'competent'. I have no way of knowing. I only know that what I've seen of Boyd is that he takes this seriously and has some relevant thoughts on wheel geometry and hub design. Mine are Altamont Lites, one with White Industries hubs and one with his 85 branded hubs. Both sets have been reliable and easy to own and have never needed a single spoke tweak, probably because they are properly stress relieved and because he and his builders have assembled thousands of wheels, so they know what they're doing.

It is easy to dismiss a lot of the bike business as hokey marketing dribble, and much of it is, but I think consumers are just as guilty as the hokey marketers for falling for it.

If someone has unrealistic expectations they are likely to be unmet. If we know what we are buying we are likely to be satisfied. My Boyd Altamont Lites are fine for what they are: daily use training wheels which have a quality, zippy feel to them.

His website flashed across this video and I thought a bit of a counterpoint is worthwhile. He is not fake, nor are the wheels he sells.

I love this even more if he actually sells wheels. You find a link?

[R3awak3n]

I also have some boyds, they are good wheels. Not better or worse than other wheels that I have but been very happy with them.

I think this video, and a few of the others are pretty hilarious and pretty spot on on a few things. I think boyd has evolved a lot since its inception and now its definitely not a fake wheel company (never was but now that they do their own thing makes it more credible).

I think his other video, how to start a high end cycling clothes company is even more on point... there are so many of them out there... all kind of look the same... quality is all the same since they all are made by the same people.

[sparky33]

companies like Boyd, Next, and a few others are putting a little more into the product than just ordering stock components

Really happy with the resilience of my Next mtb wheels and my Boyd road wheels. Both companies communicate well and build quality wheels at a fair price.

That video is a bit of trolling. Not to be taken seriously. Moving on.

[marciero]

Libel-


Wow, some big words in there..BUT..why on earth would Boyd spend the YUGE $ to sue this guy, when the 'return' would be a whole lot of nuthin??

I was merely pointing out what is happening here; not suggesting legal action. On the other hand, I would think that protecting one's brand is part of doing business. In this case a nice letter educating this person about the true nature of Boyd's business might do the trick. Would be simple matter to edit the one-second portion of video. Not that I am optimistic that would happen.

[Tony]

Its hard to pass up an opportunity to say good things about Boyd, solid company. Happy with their rims, wheels and customer service.

[redir]

The absolutely longest lasting, treated like crap, raced on, trained on, beat on, barely maintained set of wheels I ever had were handbuilts by Len of Bike Nook fame in San Francisco. They lasted a good dozen years or so and were still perfectly good when I sold the bike that they were on.

Len's wheelbuilds were legendary. As was his shop.

RIP Bike Nook!

The absolute biggest POS wheels were some training wheels from an old brand that's similar to the video, a company that had branded wheels made under their name & stickers. It was called Neuvation. Good lordy were those things utter crap. Sheared cassette pawls, exploded hub flanges (while on a ride!), crap bearings, etc. etc. And I didn't beat those wheels up by any stretch of the imagination. Just plain riding along. Garbage wheels but ironically incredibly good customer service. The owner did his best to right the situations every time. Narrowed the issues down to a bad manufacturing batch.

One of the bigger challenges is getting a set of handbuilts from a small independent builder who generally doesn't have a pot to piss in when it comes to replacement and/or warranty issues. That's why it's good to work thru a bike shop who has a good builder in-house.

Ha! Funny. My first response in the thread was that I had indeed owned a set of "Install Wheels" in the past. Sure I was joking but I was really talking about my Neuvations that broke spokes at least twice a year, were sent back twice for repairs. Yeah he was good at customer service though.

[saab2000]

I love this even more if he actually sells wheels. You find a link?

A link to what? Boyd Cycling?

https://boydcycling.com

[weisan]

A big one

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/malaysia-busts-online-scam-syndicate-chinese-nationals-cyberjaya-12113716

[oldpotatoe]

A big one

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/malaysia-busts-online-scam-syndicate-chinese-nationals-cyberjaya-12113716
Officials seized more than 8,000 phones and almost 1,000 computers used to run the scam, which targeted victims in China by offering fast profits in return for investments.


I guess, buying cheap wheel components and reselling them at YUGE profits??

:confused: