Italian BB, aghrrrrr!!!

[tsarpepe]

OK, my Italian bottom bracket on a bike I got recently is unscrewing as I pedal. Almost left me on the road the first time it happened. Had to pedal backwards during coasting to keep it in the frame and prevent the crankset from seizing. Came back home, tightened it; still comes loose. Is it a matter of proper torque, or do you guys resort to other methods?

[FlashUNC]

Proper torque with some light loctite, winner winner chicken dinner.

[jpritchet74]

Proper torque with some light loctite, winner winner chicken dinner.

Yup, this. Clean all threads really good to remove grease (if you used some) and bust out the loctite. I have never had an Italian BB come loose by doing this and 5 of my road / cross bikes use Italian BB's.

[fmradio516]

so I always have used plumbers tape and its worked good. One time i tried stripped any grease whatsoever from the drive side and used blue loctite. About a month later, i needed to change the bottom bracket(spindle length.. long story) and MAN, that was an EXTREMELY hard cup to get out. I thought i was destroying the threads, but nope, it was just the loctite. Maybe i used too much, but i dont remember exactly.

[Dave]

With the proper torque, I never had this problem with any of four Italian frames. If loctite is used, it should be the blue stuff and thorough grease removal is needed.

[oldpotatoe]

OK, my Italian bottom bracket on a bike I got recently is unscrewing as I pedal. Almost left me on the road the first time it happened. Had to pedal backwards during coasting to keep it in the frame and prevent the crankset from seizing. Came back home, tightened it; still comes loose. Is it a matter of proper torque, or do you guys resort to other methods?

Make sure BB shell is faced, BB shell ‘faces’ parallel.
Install with some Teflon tape on RH cup, grease, not ‘glue’,
Tighten with proper tool, like the Park or Campagnolo or similar t handle one that grips both cup flats, not just a consumer level wrench.

Been doing it this way for over 35 years plus in shop and never had one come unscrewed.

[ultraman6970]

I do what potato says since at least 30 years ago.... almost all my stuff is far superior italian threaded...

Grease the threads, put teflon tape in the cups (figure it out which way so it doesnt rip :P), tight that like hulk and you good to go. For the record you wont mess the threads if you go over torque spects, the driver side cup has nowhere else to go, it will just stop right there.

[tsarpepe]

I guess I used a "consumer level wrench" :eek:

[dddd]

What is the reasoning for using Teflon tape?

Has a bb maker ever been known to recommended this?

I've thought this through from a couple of angles and am still quite loathe to try it.

I use substantial tools to torque the fixed cup and have never had a cup loosen on either side.

[oldpotatoe]

What is the reasoning for using Teflon tape?

Has a bb maker ever been known to recommended this?

I've thought this through from a couple of angles and am still quite loathe to try it.

I use substantial tools to torque the fixed cup and have never had a cup loosen on either side.

Many BB shells, particularly older Euro ones, the threads weren’t cut particularly ‘deep’ so Teflon tape helps to fill the ‘voids’ between ‘tighter’ cups and these.
BUT the thing that keeps the ‘far superior Italian threaded’ BBs tight is
-facing
-grease
-proper tool
And
-TIGHT

[Peter P.]

I would not use Loctite 242 (Blue).

If you use it in lieu of grease, rust can still form. Then you're in a world of poop.

I'm not sure the 242 would work if you greased the threads first, THEN added the 242.

If you must use the 242, don't coat all the threads. Just draw one straight line across the threads and let turning the cup in spread the 242.

Otherwise, try the teflon plumber's tape first. If it doesn't work, it's less aggravating to remove it.

[Nomadmax]

243 works in the presence of lubricants.

That said, I've never used anything but grease on BB threads and never had one come loose. As mentioned I'd have a hard look at the BB shell faces, they may not be parallel. It's also possible that the bearing preload on the spindle was set too tight.

[ntb1001]

Make sure BB shell is faced, BB shell ‘faces’ parallel.
Install with some Teflon tape on RH cup, grease, not ‘glue’,
Tighten with proper tool, like the Park or Campagnolo or similar t handle one that grips both cup flats, not just a consumer level wrench.

Been doing it this way for over 35 years plus in shop and never had one come unscrewed.




I’ve never heard this method before...I’ve only installed with slightly greased cups, and tighten very..very tight.

I have a retro build coming up with Italian threads...maybe I’ll try the Teflon tape!![emoji16][emoji16]



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[ultraman6970]

The teflon keep the thing together and you will avoid creaks aswell. Super old trick... older than me and potato together :P

JUst pay attention to which direction you roll the teflon tape around the cup because if you put that the wrong way the tape will start bulging and getting off the threads :P You want the thing to go in. I do like a turn and a half to 2 turns, more will be way too much. The teflon as potato says will fill up the difference but at the same time will help to get the cup not frozen in place, the only thing is just put grease in the cup. Some guys dont put grease in the cups and thats when problems happen, or just put loctite and no grease, bad idea.


As for the torque wrench, the only cup you have to get tight is the driver side annd as I said before, tight that like hulk, nothing it will happen, the non driver side is the adjustable or the other cup from the UT cups (no idea what bb the dude is using)... you can leave the cup ok tight because with the time will continue getting tighter which is expected to happen. No need to torque wrench....

As for english cups, you can leave them not super tight because they will tight with the time.

[zmudshark]

I've been using Teflon tape for years. It works.

[pjbaz]

I would not use Loctite 242 (Blue).
If you use it in lieu of grease, rust can still form. Then you're in a world of poop.
I'm not sure the 242 would work if you greased the threads first, THEN added the 242.

I was going to say it would be a smart idea to check with Loctite to find the proper "number" of their goo to use on the BB. I had to replace a spoke in my Velomax wheels and it required a close-but-different number than regular "red". I'm glad I checked into the differences before I did it :eek:

[Peter P.]

I was going to say ... than regular "red". I'm glad I checked into the differences before I did it :eek:

When I was a wee teenager, budding bicycle geek in the '70's, I had our local reputable shop build me a pair of custom clincher wheels with Maillard hubs and Fiamme clincher rims. I think they used Robergel spokes.

They told me to bring the wheels back in after 100 miles for a free re-truing.

I did, and when I picked up the wheels, they told me they used red Loctite on the initial build, and upon re-truing them couldn't turn them for squat. They had to cut out the spokes and re-lace the wheel!

[mtechnica]

I have a few bikes with Italian bottom brackets and they’ve come loose once or twice in the past, however blue loctite and a good amount of torque seems to work for me. I also mark the cup and the frame so I can easily see if it’s starting to loosen.

[mtechnica]

Also red loctite is theoretically a good choice because of the diameter of the threads. but I wouldn’t use it personally, I think blue holds it more than well enough.

[oldpotatoe]

AAArrrggg..all this about using glue in a Italian(or any) BB shell...we had a Bianchi, steel..RH cup seized in the frame. It would not come out('far superior Italian threads)...so, strip bike to frame(overhaul anyway, new crank and BB so we had to get it out), flats of BB cup into our big, burley vice and 2 of us turning the frame...I was afraid the BB shell would explode but nope..it came out and some sort of dried, loctite-ie type crap all over the threads...

So please.
-Face BB shell
-Grease
-teflon tape
-proper tool
and TIGHT.

IMHO, of course.

BTW-I've seen spokes glued and bonded so you couldn't turn the nipples either. Ya get a 'barber pole' spoke or shattered nipple(a lot were alloy)...

[zennmotion]

AAArrrggg..all this about using glue in a Italian(or any) BB shell...we had a Bianchi, steel..RH cup seized in the frame. It would not come out('far superior Italian threads)...so, strip bike to frame(overhaul anyway, new crank and BB so we had to get it out), flats of BB cup into our big, burley vice and 2 of us turning the frame...I was afraid the BB shell would explode but nope..it came out and some sort of dried, loctite-ie type crap all over the threads...

So please.
-Face BB shell
-Grease
-teflon tape
-proper tool
and TIGHT.

IMHO, of course.

BTW-I've seen spokes glued and bonded so you couldn't turn the nipples either. Ya get a 'barber pole' spoke or shattered nipple(a lot were alloy)...

...on the other hand, go ahead and loctite it, so that ebay bottom feeders like me can pick up a pristine Giordana frame super cheap because the seller couldn't remove a glued gnocchi (because that's the sound of my bench pulling away from the wall due to the torque on the vise) bottom bracket. My Dad's 60+yr old Wilton FTW.

[dddd]

AAArrrggg..all this about using glue in a Italian(or any) BB shell...

...BTW-I've seen spokes glued and bonded so you couldn't turn the nipples either. Ya get a 'barber pole' spoke or shattered nipple(a lot were alloy)...

I'm working on a Stans rear wheel this morning, needs all new outer driveside spokes from a chain mishap.

...and they are all Loctited apparently! Propane torch, or cut them out, this is the decision.
I'd like to de-tension them all a bit before removing this very directional swath of spokes, but how?
At least these modern hubs have fat center barrels, so torque going through the hubshell shouldn't twist or break anything, right?
"Famous last words", I know!

Well, actually these spokes are slightly de-tensioned already, putting the rim 1-2mm off towards the left (and how I noticed that the spoke nips were bonded and that the outer driveside spokes were quite gnarled).

[FlashUNC]

Small dab goes a long way. Ain't gotta spread it on like butter on toast. Even the weakest stuff works great.

Just a dab and some anti-seize and you're good to go.

[fmradio516]

what about in a TI bottom bracket shell?? What goes on aluminum threads THEN

[dddd]

what about in a TI bottom bracket shell?? What goes on aluminum threads THEN

Finish Line sells a copper-based anti-seize touted as best for titanium.

But the silver stuff would be great from my experience, or even just regular grease.

[vqdriver]

:eek:
I have learned something highly useful today

243 works in the presence of lubricants.

[pjbaz]

When I was a wee teenager, budding bicycle geek in the '70's, I had our local reputable shop build me a pair of custom clincher wheels with Maillard hubs and Fiamme clincher rims. I think they used Robergel spokes.

They told me to bring the wheels back in after 100 miles for a free re-truing.

I did, and when I picked up the wheels, they told me they used red Loctite on the initial build, and upon re-truing them couldn't turn them for squat. They had to cut out the spokes and re-lace the wheel!

Come on, what shop did that? I'm local and inquiring minds want to know :eek:

The loctite my wheels called for is designed to be heated to loosen - worked fine taking out the old ones and the new ones went right in - wheels were 12 years old, too

[fmradio516]

Come on, what shop did that? I'm local and inquiring minds want to know :eek:

The loctite my wheels called for is designed to be heated to loosen - worked fine taking out the old ones and the new ones went right in - wheels were 12 years old, too

Oo how do you heat them? Lighter? mini torch?

[Tandem Rider]

If your Italian fixed cup is coming out, lack of loctite isn't the problem. Chase, face, grease the threads, TIGHT with a proper BB fixed cup tool. When you think it's tight, tighten a little more. Gutentight is the technical spec.;)

[DrewK]

Tighten until your shoulder clicks. Or you can get technical: tighten until it's loose, then back off 1.5 turns.

[rowebr]

AAArrrggg..all this about using glue in a Italian(or any) BB shell...we had a Bianchi, steel..RH cup seized in the frame. It would not come out('far superior Italian threads)...so, strip bike to frame(overhaul anyway, new crank and BB so we had to get it out), flats of BB cup into our big, burley vice and 2 of us turning the frame...I was afraid the BB shell would explode but nope..it came out and some sort of dried, loctite-ie type crap all over the threads...

So please.
-Face BB shell
-Grease
-teflon tape
-proper tool
and TIGHT.

IMHO, of course.



Shimano's Italian threaded BB for Hollowtech II cranks comes with a gray substance on the threads, maybe it is Teflon tape? Anyway, three years ago when building up my Guerciotti retro-roadie, I added grease on top of that gray stuff when installing the BB. Your advice makes me think adding the grease was the right call...guess I'll know for sure when the time comes to remove it!

[mtechnica]

The stuff on the Shimano cups is probably similar to blue loctite. Blue loctite is weak for threads the diameter of a BB but counterintuitively, it can make it easier to remove in the long run since it also acts as anti seize.

[pjbaz]

Oo how do you heat them? Lighter? mini torch?

I used a cig lighter. Only took a few seconds to loosen up and the twisted out nicely. I did find it better to heat the area again when the spokes were out and run another old spoke in to clean the threads before installing the new spoke. I went by the mfg step-by-step instructions

[oldpotatoe]

Shimano's Italian threaded BB for Hollowtech II cranks comes with a gray substance on the threads, maybe it is Teflon tape? Anyway, three years ago when building up my Guerciotti retro-roadie, I added grease on top of that gray stuff when installing the BB. Your advice makes me think adding the grease was the right call...guess I'll know for sure when the time comes to remove it!

No, dried glue(loctite type stuff), which makes no sense since glue(loctite type stuff), really works when wet. I used some sort of locking tool for these BBs..that tightened the tool into the cup TIGHTLY so you can make the RH BB cup TIGHT...These are really draggy anyway so making them tight is important.