Shimano levers: GRX vs. Ultegra/Dura-Ace

[RobJ]

Anyone have input on the new GRX levers? I was debating on going with either the Ultegra/DA Di2 hydro levers or move to the new GRX. I like the others because of their close to normal hood profile, unlike SRAM which is much bulkier. I see for GRX they did make some changes to the hood/hand placement. Thanks.

[R3awak3n]

ppl seem to really love the ergonomics but man... aren't they the ugliest levers out right now.

[nickl]

ppl seem to really love the ergonomics but man... aren't they the ugliest levers out right now.

Saw GRX brifters on several bikes at the Philly expo last weekend. Their appearance is excellent and quite ergonomic, especially when viewed next to comparable SRAM levers, IMO.

[R3awak3n]

Saw GRX brifters on several bikes at the Philly expo last weekend. Their appearance is excellent and quite ergonomic, especially when viewed next to comparable SRAM levers, IMO.

I need to see em in real life but in pictures they dont look like something I would want on my bike. To me sram is less terrible looking with campy being the best looking of the bunch.

[Jaybee]

I had a chance to ride GRX on a demo bike a couple weeks back, and I think they have some nice functional improvements relative to the road levers. They are super comfortable, very grippy, and most importantly feel pretty secure when descending or going over rough stuff in a way that Ultegra 8000 hydros (my frame of reference) do not. The leverage point for brake engagement is different. Usually I'm in the hooks and thus pretty low on that type of terrain. Getting a couple inches further back and still feeling secure on the levers and with the brake point is a nice option to have. SRAM kinda offers this with the giant horn on top, but I liked the brake feel of GRX more. If I add another drop bar disc bike to the stable anytime soon, it will probably get GRX.

[RobJ]

I had a chance to ride GRX on a demo bike a couple weeks back, and I think they have some nice functional improvements relative to the road levers. They are super comfortable, very grippy, and most importantly feel pretty secure when descending or going over rough stuff in a way that Ultegra 8000 hydros (my frame of reference) do not. The leverage point for brake engagement is different. Usually I'm in the hooks and thus pretty low on that type of terrain. Getting a couple inches further back and still feeling secure on the levers and with the brake point is a nice option to have. SRAM kinda offers this with the giant horn on top, but I liked the brake feel of GRX more. If I add another drop bar disc bike to the stable anytime soon, it will probably get GRX.



Excellent feedback! Thanks.


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[PaMtbRider]

Saw GRX brifters on several bikes at the Philly expo last weekend. Their appearance is excellent and quite ergonomic, especially when viewed next to comparable SRAM levers, IMO.

I had the exact opposite reaction. Saw them at Philly and thought they were ugly compared to Ultegra / Dura Ace

[jfranci3]

ppl seem to really love the ergonomics but man... aren't they the ugliest levers out right now.

The R505 were the ugliest by far... also very comfortable.

R505
https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/rs505s-by-matthew-1-of-2-1522920330191-ch3fpips82ll-b0030f4.jpg?quality=45&resize=768,574

GRX
https://advntr.cc/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/65919012_1334599416692428_4434116303585804288_n-e1562237666991-988x1024.jpg

[R3awak3n]

The R505 were the ugliest by far... also very comfortable.

R505
https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/rs505s-by-matthew-1-of-2-1522920330191-ch3fpips82ll-b0030f4.jpg?quality=45&resize=768,574

GRX
https://advntr.cc/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/65919012_1334599416692428_4434116303585804288_n-e1562237666991-988x1024.jpg

oh I 100% agree, those are #1 by far, GRX is second for sure, then probably sram non etap.

[nickl]

I had the exact opposite reaction. Saw them at Philly and thought they were ugly compared to Ultegra / Dura Ace

Probably but anything in the Shimano family is unquestionably better in appearance compared to the comparable SRAM hydro units not to mention more functionally ergonomic. If that’s not a deciding factor SRAM uses the more toxic DOT 5 brake fluid compared to the mostly inert mineral oil used by Shim, Campy and others.

[R3awak3n]

The R505 were the ugliest by far... also very comfortable.

R505
https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/rs505s-by-matthew-1-of-2-1522920330191-ch3fpips82ll-b0030f4.jpg?quality=45&resize=768,574

GRX
https://advntr.cc/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/65919012_1334599416692428_4434116303585804288_n-e1562237666991-988x1024.jpg

Probably but anything in the Shimano family is unquestionably better in appearance compared to the comparable SRAM hydro units not to mention more functionally ergonomic. If that’s not a deciding factor SRAM uses the more toxic DOT 5 brake fluid compared to the mostly inert mineral oil used by Shim, Campy and others.


I think ergonomic all depends on who is using what, I guess same on appearance. I like campy ergos and they are amazing in my hands, shimano on the other hand is the worst one for me. think that GRX is probably nice though as far as ergonomics and I would maybe consider it in DI2, I do not like shimano mech lever moving while I shift so I would not do any shimano mech. As far as DOT5.1 vs mineral oil, we just discussed this in another thread and it is one of those things that comes up and if you will die just by looking at DOT5.1 fluid and people also make it seem like mineral oil is as pure as water, you can even crush your teeth with it. They are both toxic liquids, take precaution with both and you will be fine. Really not a good point of discussion on what is better than what. You can argue that GRX is better looking that sram, I will disagree with that but thats just opinions. GRX to me looks like something FSA designed.

[nickl]

I think ergonomic all depends on who is using what, I guess same on appearance. I like campy ergos and they are amazing in my hands, shimano on the other hand is the worst one for me. think that GRX is probably nice though as far as ergonomics and I would maybe consider it in DI2, I do not like shimano mech lever moving while I shift so I would not do any shimano mech. As far as DOT5.1 vs mineral oil, we just discussed this in another thread and it is one of those things that comes up and if you will die just by looking at DOT5.1 fluid and people also make it seem like mineral oil is as pure as water, you can even crush your teeth with it. They are both toxic liquids, take precaution with both and you will be fine. Really not a good point of discussion on what is better than what. You can argue that GRX is better looking that sram, I will disagree with that but thats just opinions. GRX to me looks like something FSA designed.


Your defense of DOT5 is based on the generality that both are toxic without qualification. That said on a scale of 1 to 10 with the highest number being most toxic mineral oil is about 1 or 2, at worst, and DOT 5 is closer to 7 or 8. Question is why did SRAM deviate from the majority of the industry and go with the option that’s worse environmentally and most hazardous to those handle the substance.

In fact, people selling Shimano brake fluid claim it’s non-toxic something I don’t see in DOT5 descriptions.

https://www.performancebike.com/shimano-brake-fluid-1liter-ksmdboilo/p331251

[Jaybee]

There's a few theoretical (and maybe functional advantages) to DOT 5 or 5.1 fluid vs. mineral oil.

1) DOT is less compressible than mineral oil, theoretically leading to better brake performance. Whether the difference can be felt by humans is a different (and probably more relevant) question

2) DOT manages water intrusion better than mineral oil. Water should dissolve into the DOT, whereas it separates from the oil. When the separated water evaporates, it would leave air space behind.

3) DOT should have a larger temperature variance at which it performs optimally. Mineral oil isn't as good in extremely hot (usually only found on motorized vehicles) or extremely cold situations.

Of course, DOT is more toxic, though I don't worry too much about that at the minute quantities we're discussing. I use gloves and have plenty of rags ready no matter what fluid when servicing hydro brakes. FWIW, it seems a little easier to clean up spot spills of DOT than mineral oil.

Bottom line, I wouldn't allow the fluid itself to determine my component choice. I like all the Shimano hydro products I've tried, and I trust that they'll be reliable. I've never personally had a SRAM failure, but the reports are all over the interwebz - that said I generally prefer the feeling of SRAMs brakes - mountain or road over Shimano, but not so much that it's a deciding factor.

[zzy]

I think, historically, DOT fluid was more common (Avid, Hayes IIRC) but Mineral Oil makes more sense for bicycle applications, first and foremost because it is non-toxic and non-corrosive. And has a better shelf life. Unless someone invents an ABS system for bikes..

[fignon's barber]

Everyone knows the correct answer is Campagnolo Chorus or Potenza Disc.:)

[R3awak3n]

Everyone knows the correct answer is Campagnolo Chorus or Potenza Disc.:)

unless you want 1x

[mistermo]

How does GRX position on flared, gravel bars. On a flared bar, the odd looking SRAM hydro looks even more odd with it's inward flare. GRX is the same?

And are the Di2 buttons hard to use with gloves, or whilst bombing down a hill with hands chattering?

[Gummee]

Your defense of DOT5 is based on the generality that both are toxic without qualification. That said on a scale of 1 to 10 with the highest number being most toxic mineral oil is about 1 or 2, at worst, and DOT 5 is closer to 7 or 8. Question is why did SRAM deviate from the majority of the industry and go with the option that’s worse environmentally and most hazardous to those handle the substance.

In fact, people selling Shimano brake fluid claim it’s non-toxic something I don’t see in DOT5 descriptions.

https://www.performancebike.com/shimano-brake-fluid-1liter-ksmdboilo/p331251

I was talking to the SRAM rep last Sat. They say they like DOT fluid because it doesn't freeze. Don't expect them to move away from it no matter how much we all want them to

M

edited to add: bled a Magura front brake today for the first time ever. Went as nicely as Shimano brakes usually do. 20+ years of working on bikes and this was the 1st Magura system. Howya like that?!

[nickl]

I was talking to the SRAM rep last Sat. They say they like DOT fluid because it doesn't freeze. Don't expect them to move away from it no matter how much we all want them to

M

edited to add: bled a Magura front brake today for the first time ever. Went as nicely as Shimano brakes usually do. 20+ years of working on bikes and this was the 1st Magura system. Howya like that?!

SRAM guy is correct, min oil freezes at about -40F. Not an issue for most, but SRAM also had bigger cold weather brake issues in the past. Mostly fixed, I believe.

https://bikerumor.com/2014/06/20/sram-hydraulic-recall-full-story-explained-consumer-brakesets-available/

[geordanh]

Back on to GRX... anyone who can compare these to the hylex levers? IMO the hylex hood shape is the best so far for aggressive descending on the hoods but very curious about grx and that higher pivot.


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[eippo1]

I know that this is about the levers, but just want to remark that part of the reason for GRX line in the first place was to move the chain line out 2.5 mm to get it away from wider tires and better clearances at the BB.

I'm really interested in the lever position change as I have not been enthralled with my 785 levers whilst bombing down dirt roads like Hawks Rd.

I will probably change my TI Warbird to GRX 1x Di2 next spring.

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