Steel All-road frames

[shoota]

Help me find options for what I'm looking for.

I recently built up a 70s Windsor all an all road bike and I'll admit, it has opened my eyes to how a full steel bike can feel on the road. Really the only thing I'd change on it if I could is I'd make it disc brake and wider tire clearance.

So what's out there that is disc (preferably post mount), threaded BB, lively geo, full steel, and 38-40mm tire clearance at least? And not full custom prices.

I was looking at BMC but it seems like he doesn't make a disc version of anything except the Road+ frame. (Which is actually a pretty cool frame, and I love the lugged fork :heart: )

Also looked at:
Soma Fog Cutter - pretty good contender

[RobJ]

Kona Sutra (and others)
All City Monsoon, Space Horse
Twin Six Rando
Salsa (a few AR models)
Niner
Bombtrack
Merlin (the retailers house brand)
Gunnar

To name a few and those won't break the bank like a full custom etc.

[JasonF]

Not sure how you define lively geo, but the Specialized Sequoia checks some of those boxes....

[Bentley]

I think you should look at either a custom Retrotec or a Frank the Welder build, not sure you would not be at about the same investment with either

Ray

[Elefantino]

This builder lives near my son in Brooklyn. Going to check it out next month.

http://www.horsebrand.co/bikes/all-road-elite-1

[Black Dog]

How about our very own David Kirk. If custom steel is within your budget.

[shoota]

Thanks so far, all. I bolded the "not custom prices" part.

[Clean39T]

You can't get a light and lively steel frame with disc brakes at off-the-peg prices.

To be mass-produced, the safety margin has to go up, and that results in overbuilt steel tubes and forks. This is especially true when discs are involved.

Your best bet is either someone else's used custom (unlikely given that steel disc frame/fork combos are relatively rare), or finding a custom builder who is up n' coming, doing semi-production, and/or is willing to do minimal finish work (i.e., powder coat and tig-welded). You may be able to hit the $2K mark there - maybe.

EDIT:

I may have misread your post. If you're looking for road-bike geometry (lively handling), but don't care about the lovely springy ride of the steel, RobJ's list should get you there. I'd be careful though. Not everyone has figured out how to deliver road-bike handling with bigger tires that impact trail, and BB height. Keeping standard classic road geometry and just adding more tire clearance doesn't get you there.

[shoota]

You can't get a light and lively steel frame with disc brakes at off-the-peg prices.

To be mass-produced, the safety margin has to go up, and that results in overbuilt steel tubes and forks. This is especially true when discs are involved.

Your best bet is either someone else's used custom (unlikely given that steel disc frame/fork combos are relatively rare), or finding a custom builder who is up n' coming, doing semi-production, and/or is willing to do minimal finish work (i.e., powder coat and tig-welded). You may be able to hit the $2K mark there - maybe.

EDIT:

I may have misread your post. If you're looking for road-bike geometry (lively handling), but don't care about the lovely springy ride of the steel, RobJ's list should get you there. I'd be careful though. Not everyone has figured out how to deliver road-bike handling with bigger tires that impact trail, and BB height. Keeping standard classic road geometry and just adding more tire clearance doesn't get you there.

That's really great info. I didn't know most of that tbh. "Lively" in my mind is light tubing that feels responsive, road-like angles, quicker steering than most gravel/touring bikes.

[bigbill]

I know it's custom, but I got my Coconino Dirt Road Racer out for under $5k with a nice build and wheels. If you want bigger tires and quicker handling, it's going to be a longer bike to get the head angle or fork rake and still clear the tires. The custom route allows you to work with a builder to get the bike handling you want, with the tires you need.

[scopes]

What about Crust Bikes? I've never ridden one, and they seem to be the latest and greatest on social media - but they do look like they tick all the boxes. The couple I've seen in person looked really nice.

Dreamer, Bombora, or Romanceur could be good options!

https://crustbikes.com/product-category/bikes/frames/

[denapista]

This builder lives near my son in Brooklyn. Going to check it out next month.

http://www.horsebrand.co/bikes/all-road-elite-1

Horse is amazing. He's super responsive via email and his frames are immaculate. I talked to him about getting an All Road Elite frame/fork build. I may revisit this idea. I've also been looking for an All City Space horse Disc. I think those bikes are the best bang for buck when it comes to a 650b bike with all of the rack options, etc. Space horse frame/fork is $650 online.

[Clean39T]

That's really great info. I didn't know most of that tbh. "Lively" in my mind is light tubing that feels responsive, road-like angles, quicker steering than most gravel/touring bikes.

http://boulderbicycle.bike/Boulder-Bicycle-Road-Sport-Overview-and-Pricing.html

A good place to pick up a bit more on the subject - and you could always have Gunnar/Waterford build something similar for you (with the caveat around disc brakes and steel frames/forks still being there - you have to overbuild to manage the braking load and that impacts ride quality).

Also google Fitz bikes and HenryWildebarry on YouTube - he covers a lot of this in some of his videos.

I suspect what you are looking for is an Open Upper, but made of steel, and at an affordable price. That's a tall order - and also a great goal to have.

My last piece of advice is to consider tinkering with an off-the-peg version before going custom. A Spesh/Trek/Giant whatever can be had somewhat cheap and lets you see if you even like fat tires and disc brakes before shelling out for a nicer stock-ish steel setup or going custom at some point.

[denapista]

This thread is like the friend who knows you're a road cyclists, and always says "I want to get into cycling, can you help me find a bike?"

The first thing I say to them is, "What's your budget?"

What's your budget for the frame you desire?

[KonaSS]

Fairdale - https://shop.fairdalebikes.com/products/rockitship-gravel-frame-and-enve-fork-kit

Fairlight - for not quite custom dollars - https://fairlightcycles.com/product/secan-deposit/?v=7516fd43adaa

[Buzz Killington]

Like this:?
https://masibikes.com/collections/gravel-road/products/cxgr-comp-2020

[72gmc]

Is angryscientist here yet? No? OK, I'll recommend adding the Ritchey Outback to your list.

The Norco Search comes in steel and should ride well (I test rode the carbon version this summer). It has a pressfit BB, but I'm told there is a Wheels Mfg workaround that works.

[floppyb]

Whats the benefit of post mount disc brakes?

[Jaybee]

Whats the benefit of post mount disc brakes?

No benefit per se, just easier to engineer into a steel frame/fork relative to flat mount. I think this has largely been overcome though, giving you the ability to run a modern road hydro groupset without finagling adapters, etc. If your frame is post mount, it's 100% possible to mate post mount calipers to the hydro shifters of your choice (at least for SRAM/Shimano, and I've heard positive reports of Campy/Hope interfacing).

To the original topic, the Fairlight Secan would be my choice for an "Open UP, but in steel". 853, massive clearance, not custom pricing. If you don't need the massive 650b clearance and can handle the low stack, I'd second the Ritchey Outback.

[Clean39T]

To the original topic, the Fairlight Secan would be my choice for an "Open UP, but in steel". 853, massive clearance, not custom pricing.

I'll second that - looks like a fantastic bike for the price.

[spoonrobot]

The Fairlight Secan is a 5 pound frame. Many of it's competitors are a half pound lighter, or more.

[Smitty2k1]

I agonized over this same question for the past couple months before finally buying a Black Mountain Road+ last week (still haven't received it or built it up yet so I can't comment) but here was the list that I compiled that somewhat fits this category.

I am in the "much more road than all road" category so some of these are definitely more pavement oriented. In the end it came down to the Black Mountain Road+ and the Soma Fog Cutter. That Fog Cutter can be had for $600 with the carbon fork and Velomine has some really decent 700c disc wheels for $200.


- Black Mountain Cycles Road+
- Soma Fog Cutter
- Soma Double Cross Disc
- Jamis Renegade
- All City Space Horse
- Velo Orange Polyvalent
- Niner RLT 9 steel
- Velo Orange Pass Hunter (new version not yet released)
- Fairdale Rockitship
- Kona Rove ST
- Twin Six Standard Rando
- Fairlight Secan

Building up the Road+ with a Shimano 105 groupset and going to have a go building my own wheels with the Pacenti Forza Disc rims laced to Shimano R7070 hubs.

[559Rando]

Clean's analysis is sound: mass produced disc bikes won't be lively. BTW, just clarify, I'd attribute the liveliness more to the tubing. And on top of that, I'd really do some soul searching to see why you want disc brakes. Disc brakes will also require a stiffer fork. If it's improved braking you're after, look at the system and make some updates: better levers, better calipers, better pads, better housing, better routing, clean your rims. If you're riding in rain--or to a lesser extent, mud--discs brakes have some benefits, but since leaving the PNW, I haven't felt like I "needed" discs.

Further, most modern mass produced steel bikes will be stiff and "dead". Mike Kone at Boulder praises 70s steel road bikes for their wide tire capabilities and Chris Kostman's classic "Mountain Bikes: Who Needs 'Em?", IIRC, references the off-roadability of a B-stone RB-1 with 28s!

How wide of a tire does the Windsor fit?

Perhaps finding another nice 70s-era road bike or classic tourer is the ticket? One that can fit a little more tire? My vintage Motobecane SS shred sled has 35mm CX tires, IIRC.

Finally, I'll see if there's anything online from Mike Kone's talk at the Philly Bike show. He was going to give a talk on something along these lines at the event.

[559Rando]

I was looking at BMC but it seems like he doesn't make a disc version of anything except the Road+ frame. (Which is actually a pretty cool frame, and I love the lugged fork :heart: )

Black Mt. Cycles also has the Monster Cross Disc and those sweet forks on the disc bikes are "segmented". He only uses the really fork crowns on the rim brake bikes.

[jtbadge]

The ACE tubing on the All-City Cosmic Stallion is light and rides great - I’d get one of those with no hesitation. Stock build kind of sucks with mechanical brakes. But easy to build one up.

Are you looking for a steel or carbon fork? Really divides the options you’re going to get in this market sector.

[Spoker]

Lively? Ti cyclocross or touring frame used. May be 25 y/o no problem.
Old steel race frames often fit 30 mm tires no problem.
No disks of course for both options.

[shoota]

Whats the benefit of post mount disc brakes?

Already have the group in this case.

[shoota]

Clean's analysis is sound: mass produced disc bikes won't be lively. BTW, just clarify, I'd attribute the liveliness more to the tubing. And on top of that, I'd really do some soul searching to see why you want disc brakes. Disc brakes will also require a stiffer fork. If it's improved braking you're after, look at the system and make some updates: better levers, better calipers, better pads, better housing, better routing, clean your rims. If you're riding in rain--or to a lesser extent, mud--discs brakes have some benefits, but since leaving the PNW, I haven't felt like I "needed" discs.

Further, most modern mass produced steel bikes will be stiff and "dead". Mike Kone at Boulder praises 70s steel road bikes for their wide tire capabilities and Chris Kostman's classic "Mountain Bikes: Who Needs 'Em?", IIRC, references the off-roadability of a B-stone RB-1 with 28s!

How wide of a tire does the Windsor fit?

Perhaps finding another nice 70s-era road bike or classic tourer is the ticket? One that can fit a little more tire? My vintage Motobecane SS shred sled has 35mm CX tires, IIRC.

Finally, I'll see if there's anything online from Mike Kone's talk at the Philly Bike show. He was going to give a talk on something along these lines at the event.

You just described my Windsor. I can get 31mm Terreno Drys in there, but that's it. It rides great however. But, this is what got me thinking about a modern steelie. Disc, able to take 38s, stiffer front end. (The Windsor is an absolute noodle when cornering)

[StanleySteamer]

Take advantage of the weak Canadian dollar and buy a Marinoni Sportivo with disc brakes.

[shoota]

this thread is like the friend who knows you're a road cyclists, and always says "i want to get into cycling, can you help me find a bike?"

the first thing i say to them is, "what's your budget?"

what's your budget for the frame you desire?

$500-700

[shoota]

The ACE tubing on the All-City Cosmic Stallion is light and rides great - I’d get one of those with no hesitation. Stock build kind of sucks with mechanical brakes. But easy to build one up.

Are you looking for a steel or carbon fork? Really divides the options you’re going to get in this market sector.

I took a look at them. Was thinking steel fork and less money than an All-City. But, I do like that I have a LBS that carries them. As life goes on I find wanting to take care of my bikes by myself less attractive.

[559Rando]

You just described my Windsor. I can get 31mm Terreno Drys in there, but that's it. It rides great however. But, this is what got me thinking about a modern steelie. Disc, able to take 38s, stiffer front end. (The Windsor is an absolute noodle when cornering)

I couldn't find any more on the Mike Kone talk other than the page on the Philly Bike Expo's site:

https://phillybikeexpo.com/the-70s-road-bike-revisited-affordable-fun-for-road-path-or-smooth-dirt/

But that bike they show is sweet. Looks like a Raleigh International to me.
https://phillybikeexpo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/raleigh_pbe2017-159-600x600.jpg

My Raleigh International could fit 38s before I 650B'ed it.

Your point on cornering hard in the dirt is a good one. Flexy fork blades are a double edged sword: one gravel and rough roads, they are amazing but if you're (as the kids say) "getting rad," they might be disconcerting and stiffer blades can be advantageous. The Rawland rSogn is good example would be a good compromise: they have a lively, flexy frame and stout fork blades that don't give too much when you're carving. My experience alone isn't enough to be objective data, but I experienced that myself. I've also experienced that unicrown forks are stiffer than forks with traditional crowns.

Perhaps another solution is vintage road frame with a stiffer fork? Maybe even a disc fork? Although a 1" 700C with wider tire clearance probably didn't exist in the marketplace long, if it was ever even mass produced. I do have 1" threadless CX fork with canti posts that might work for you. I have a Crust Romanceur fork that has a disc mount, but couldn't fit more than about 33mm in 700C, IIRC. And these solutions would create quite a mongrol! :banana:

This is also a good time to jump back to c. 2008, and relive the excitement of 650B conversion! Your Windsor with some long reach brakes (and maybe a stiffer fork...like the Soma Grand Randonneur fork...which is 1" threaded and made for 650B or the Crust Romanceur fork, which also 1" threaded/650B, but designed for disk) could give the Windsor a new lease on life. Maybe get a powder coat and it'll look cohesive and very custom and cool. :cool:

[rwsaunders]

Based on your budget and the request for post mount disc tabs, I’d say that a Poprad is in your (back to the) future.

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/road-bikes/lemond-poprad-disc-review/

[tctyres]

I agonized over this same question for the past couple months before finally buying a Black Mountain Road+ last week (still haven't received it or built it up yet so I can't comment) but here was the list that I compiled that somewhat fits this category.

I am in the "much more road than all road" category so some of these are definitely more pavement oriented. In the end it came down to the Black Mountain Road+ and the Soma Fog Cutter. That Fog Cutter can be had for $600 with the carbon fork and Velomine has some really decent 700c disc wheels for $200.


- Black Mountain Cycles Road+
- Soma Fog Cutter
- Soma Double Cross Disc
- Jamis Renegade
- All City Space Horse
- Velo Orange Polyvalent
- Niner RLT 9 steel
- Velo Orange Pass Hunter (new version not yet released)
- Fairdale Rockitship
- Kona Rove ST
- Twin Six Standard Rando
- Fairlight Secan

Building up the Road+ with a Shimano 105 groupset and going to have a go building my own wheels with the Pacenti Forza Disc rims laced to Shimano R7070 hubs.

Tell us the logic behind your decision: Why did you go with what you did?

[clyde the point]

Here's another vote for BMC. Wife has Monster X I have the Road +. Fits your budget and for the $$$'s they ride pretty alright. Lots of options with wheel size, braze ons etc.

[Smitty2k1]

Tell us the logic behind your decision: Why did you go with what you did?

I wish I had a good answer for you, but I guess this sums it up for better or worse:

1) I preferred the look, color, intended use-case, and price of the Fog Cutter ($600 shipped for frame and fork and $220 for a nice wheelset vs. $750 shipped for BMC and good 650b wheelsets harder to find, building my own for a little over $300). Was also intrigued by the Fog Cutter's carbon fork and the ability to put a CroMo one on it if the carbon didn't do it for me. Really liked the few reviews I've read of the Road+ and Black Mountain's overall design philosophy. Also heard some negative reviews of the paint quality/durability on the Fog Cutter.
2) I was worried about the more aggressive stack:reach on the Fog Cutter. My two bikes both have short and tall stems and still only get a so-so fit. BMC Road+ has a very relaxed stack:reach.
3) I found out that Black Mountain restocked a single 50cm Road+ in the Ultra Violet after being sold out for some time (wasn't crazy about the yellow frames).
4) I got trigger happy and instead of test riding different bikes with similar geometry as the Fog Cutter to see if it worked or not I just pulled the trigger on the Road+.
5) I got some heart burn when I then realized that thru axles are not like QR skewers in the sense that they are an actual cost item and not just usually included in the price of hubs/wheelsets. Extra $70, ouch.
6) Here we are now, as I'm eagerly awaiting delivery of my frame, wheel build parts, and trying to figure out the best way to break the news to my wife that our 1br apartment is going to be an explosion of bike parts for the next month or three as I build the bike and wheels.

[KonaSS]

I wish I had a good answer for you, but I guess this sums it up for better or worse:


5) I got some heart burn when I then realized that thru axles are not like QR skewers in the sense that they are an actual cost item and not just usually included in the price of hubs/wheelsets. Extra $70, ouch.



I don't think this is exactly true. Thru axles are not like quick releases in that they do not come with wheels. However, they are included in the price of a thru axle frame for almost every bike I have seen.

[prototoast]

I don't think this is exactly true. Thru axles are not like quick releases in that they do not come with wheels. However, they are included in the price of a thru axle frame for almost every bike I have seen.

They appear to be an add-on for Black Mountain Cycles, but I would agree with you that that is less common than them being included in the base price of a frame.

[oldpotatoe]

Help me find options for what I'm looking for.

I recently built up a 70s Windsor all an all road bike and I'll admit, it has opened my eyes to how a full steel bike can feel on the road. Really the only thing I'd change on it if I could is I'd make it disc brake and wider tire clearance.

So what's out there that is disc (preferably post mount), threaded BB, lively geo, full steel, and 38-40mm tire clearance at least? And not full custom prices.

I was looking at BMC but it seems like he doesn't make a disc version of anything except the Road+ frame. (Which is actually a pretty cool frame, and I love the lugged fork :heart: )

Also looked at:
Soma Fog Cutter - pretty good contender

www.gunnarbikes.com
www.waterfordbikes.com
$500-700

ahhh, never mind...

[Vientomas]

https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bike/croix-de-fer-fs-2020

[shoota]

https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bike/croix-de-fer-fs-2020

Hey those are pretty sharp.

So many good options I didn't know about, thanks so far everyone.

[tctyres]

I wish I had a good answer for you, but I guess this sums it up for better or worse:

...

6) Here we are now, as I'm eagerly awaiting delivery of my frame, wheel build parts, and trying to figure out the best way to break the news to my wife that our 1br apartment is going to be an explosion of bike parts for the next month or three as I build the bike and wheels.

Thanks for the feedback. I have a Black Mtn Road. Mike Varley has been super helpful. When I bought it, I sent him my measurements, and he sent me back the drawing of how the bike should be set up. I've had a couple dumb issues that were my fault, and he was quick with good answers and know-how.

Don't worry about the bike parts or wife. The parts are all going to go on the bike, and your wife married you knowing that something like this would happen in the future. It's a "feature" rather than a drawback, just make sure to pick up after yourself.

[Jaybee]

https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bike/croix-de-fer-fs-2020

Hey those are pretty sharp.

So many good options I didn't know about, thanks so far everyone.

I like a lot of the Genesis frames too. Is there a way to get them on this side of the Atlantic yet?

[TunaAndBikes]

Get in touch with them, they're great to work with!
And you can get a steal from the weak CAD

[mhespenheide]

I like a lot of the Genesis frames too. Is there a way to get them on this side of the Atlantic yet?

Total Cycling appears to ship to the US, but only offers complete bikes for the Croix de Fer:https://www.totalcycling.com/en/Genesis/b-249.aspx

[shoota]

Get in touch with them, they're great to work with!
And you can get a steal from the weak CAD

Maybe, but their website is a train wreck.

And where are the steals?

[shoota]

Have you all seen the Flaanimal 5.0 yet?!? OMG I'm in love.

https://bikepacking.com/news/rodeo-labs-flaanimal-5/

[Bentley]

Maybe, but their website is a train wreck.

And where are the steals?

The steal is in the exchange rate, a Canadian Dollar is worth about .75 US so a bike with a CAD price of 1375 ends up for like 1031. Seems like it’s a good deal, I’ve heard their frames are very nice...

[denapista]

Have you all seen the Flaanimal 5.0 yet?!? OMG I'm in love.

https://bikepacking.com/news/rodeo-labs-flaanimal-5/

This bike ticks every single box I've been thinking of in a bike... TBH their other paint jobs have strayed me away from buying one of their bikes. Just way too loud for my minimal style..

I wonder how much the 5.0 is going to cost?

[shoota]

This bike ticks every single box I've been thinking of in a bike... TBH their other paint jobs have strayed me away from buying one of their bikes. Just way too loud for my minimal style..

I wonder how much the 5.0 is going to cost?

Read the article my friend.

[GonaSovereign]

The steal is in the exchange rate, a Canadian Dollar is worth about .75 US so a bike with a CAD price of 1375 ends up for like 1031. Seems like it’s a good deal, I’ve heard their frames are very nice...

And Marinonis are made by hand and painted in Montreal as they have been for 45 years. Compare and contrast to companies with good designs, good websites and frames made in an undisclosed factory an ocean away. I know which I'd choose.

Bonus, none of those other bike companies are owned by the current hour record holder (https://pedalmag.com/giuseppe-marinoni-breaks-world-record-on-milton-velodrome-at-day-of-the-hour/).

[denapista]

Read the article my friend.

The price isn't listed... I read it thoroughly.. In the comments, it looks like someone from Rodeo Labs responded that the price of the 4.0 is $1350 and the 5.0 costs more to make, but he didn't confirm a price.

[sonicCows]

With Marinoni you'd get a custom steel bike for double your budget, but still at the price of a production steel frame (All City, Niner, Rodeo etc.) and far less than a custom handbuilt from the US. I'd consider it, since at your budget for new frames you're looking at an uninspiring gaspipe Surly/All-City/Salsa frame.

Webpage for Marinoni Sterrato here http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/html/sterrato-st_en.html

[jet sanchez]

I've been coveting a Surly Straggler myself....

https://surlybikes.com/uploads/bikes/_medium_image/Straggler_BK7804.jpg

[Vientomas]

I like a lot of the Genesis frames too. Is there a way to get them on this side of the Atlantic yet?

This UK retailer claims to ship internationally: https://www.wheelbase.co.uk/product/framesets/genesis-croix-de-fer-frameset-2020/

[Jaybee]

The price isn't listed... I read it thoroughly.. In the comments, it looks like someone from Rodeo Labs responded that the price of the 4.0 is $1350 and the 5.0 costs more to make, but he didn't confirm a price.

Steve is a good dude. I understand that he won’t be able to confirm a price until he nails down more specifics with his production, but if he says he wants it near the price of 4.1, he will make it happen.

I also think that frame looks amazing - it fixes everything I didn’t quite love about 4.1 and even adds some cool things I didn’t know I wanted (carbon seat tube!)

[JSL]

so many good options out there

https://eu.ritcheylogic.com/eu_en/outback-frameset

[shoota]

I've been coveting a Surly Straggler myself....

https://surlybikes.com/uploads/bikes/_medium_image/Straggler_BK7804.jpg

I love that color.

Sooo many options out there.

[sonicCows]

I actually started a spreadsheet of production steel all-road frames. Here are some of the items on it.

From the UK, Brother has the Mehteh which has Reynolds 725, I personally like the colors too
https://www.brothercycles.com/shop/frames/mehteh/
There is also the Fearless Vulture (https://www.fearlessbikes.com/vulture/) that only has limited sizes left. It's a nice looking frame with 725 as well but QR only.

Norco and Jamis have the Search XR (https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/dirt-dropbar/gravel/search-xr-steel/search-xr-s-frame-fork/) and Renegade (https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/renegadeescapade_frame.html) steel frames (725 and 631 respectively)–I think the Norco is a bit higher end but both come with all the mounts you'd want. You might find a Niner RLT 853 (https://www.cambriabike.com/products/niner-rlt-9-steel-frameset-2018) on sale. Motobecane has the Whipshot 853 (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/cross-bikes/whipshot853steel-discbrake-crossbike-buildkit.htm) that has a light steel tubeset, it comes with nice wheels too.

Bombtrack has the Hook (http://bombtrack.com/framesets/2020-hook-2-frameset/), which has Columbus Cromor steel. Engine11 has the Dirtee which has Columbus Life steel but has QR dropouts. Otherwise looks a bit generic. Colors are nice though (purple (http://engine11.bigcartel.com/product/pre-order-dirtee-disc-cyclocross) and cyan (http://engine11.bigcartel.com/product/dirtee-cyclocross-mint))

With Tange steel Soma has the Wolverine A (https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/wolverine-typea) and Rondo has the Ruut ST (http://rondo.cc/ruut-st,18,pl). With generic 4130 you can have the Fyxation Quiver X (https://www.fyxation.com/products/quiver-x-frameset)and Fairdale Rockitship (https://shop.fairdalebikes.com/products/rockitship-gravel-frame-and-enve-fork-kit)(great deal with the Enve fork). Ritchey has the Swiss X (https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/swiss-cross-disc-frameset) which has a 1 1/8 headtube and may provide the ride feel you're searching for.

You can go full Made-in-US with the Milwaukee Mettle (https://www.benscycle.com/milwaukee-bicycle-co-mettle-cyclocross-frameset-thru-axle/mkepackage_milwaukeebicycleco_mettlethruaxle_20834/product) frame (welded by Waterford), for surprisingly inexpensive (~$1300) and at a lighter weight than the others

Obviously tubing grade matters but geometry and butting profiles matter more for how a bike feels. These frames weigh all very similarly (2100-2500g) since thru-axles and disc hardware add weight, and the fact they're designed for the heaviest rider; the Milwaukee may be lighter. Outside of weight, with such minor differences it's a bit hard to differentiate between the frames outside of braze-ons, geometry, and paint. Since many of these production bikes are close to hitting the ready-custom price of Marinoni that's why I'm suggesting that. Otherwise this is a pretty pointless exercise as I've exhausted many of your options. Good luck on your search.

[Clean39T]

Those Milwaukee frames look great - but they are true cyclocross frames with tall BBs (same issue for the Ritchey SwissX) that are maybe not well suited to all-road use....

[shoota]

I actually started a spreadsheet of production steel all-road frames. Here are some of the items on it.

From the UK, Brother has the Mehteh which has Reynolds 725, I personally like the colors too
https://www.brothercycles.com/shop/frames/mehteh/
There is also the Fearless Vulture (https://www.fearlessbikes.com/vulture/) that only has limited sizes left. It's a nice looking frame with 725 as well but QR only.

Norco and Jamis have the Search XR (https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/dirt-dropbar/gravel/search-xr-steel/search-xr-s-frame-fork/) and Renegade (https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/renegadeescapade_frame.html) steel frames (725 and 631 respectively)–I think the Norco is a bit higher end but both come with all the mounts you'd want. You might find a Niner RLT 853 (https://www.cambriabike.com/products/niner-rlt-9-steel-frameset-2018) on sale. Motobecane has the Whipshot 853 (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/cross-bikes/whipshot853steel-discbrake-crossbike-buildkit.htm) that has a light steel tubeset, it comes with nice wheels too.

Bombtrack has the Hook (http://bombtrack.com/framesets/2020-hook-2-frameset/), which has Columbus Cromor steel. Engine11 has the Dirtee which has Columbus Life steel but has QR dropouts. Otherwise looks a bit generic. Colors are nice though (purple (http://engine11.bigcartel.com/product/pre-order-dirtee-disc-cyclocross) and cyan (http://engine11.bigcartel.com/product/dirtee-cyclocross-mint))

With Tange steel Soma has the Wolverine A (https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/wolverine-typea) and Rondo has the Ruut ST (http://rondo.cc/ruut-st,18,pl). With generic 4130 you can have the Fyxation Quiver X (https://www.fyxation.com/products/quiver-x-frameset)and Fairdale Rockitship (https://shop.fairdalebikes.com/products/rockitship-gravel-frame-and-enve-fork-kit)(great deal with the Enve fork). Ritchey has the Swiss X (https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/swiss-cross-disc-frameset) which has a 1 1/8 headtube and may provide the ride feel you're searching for.

You can go full Made-in-US with the Milwaukee Mettle (https://www.benscycle.com/milwaukee-bicycle-co-mettle-cyclocross-frameset-thru-axle/mkepackage_milwaukeebicycleco_mettlethruaxle_20834/product) frame (welded by Waterford), for surprisingly inexpensive (~$1300) and at a lighter weight than the others

Obviously tubing grade matters but geometry and butting profiles matter more for how a bike feels. These frames weigh all very similarly (2100-2500g) since thru-axles and disc hardware add weight, and the fact they're designed for the heaviest rider; the Milwaukee may be lighter. Outside of weight, with such minor differences it's a bit hard to differentiate between the frames outside of braze-ons, geometry, and paint. Since many of these production bikes are close to hitting the ready-custom price of Marinoni that's why I'm suggesting that. Otherwise this is a pretty pointless exercise as I've exhausted many of your options. Good luck on your search.

That is so many brands I'd never heard of. It's kinda mind boggling how many are out there now.

[josephr]

+1 for the Soma Double Cross Disc with sweet Tange tubing. :banana:

[shoota]

+1 for the Soma Double Cross Disc with sweet Tange tubing. :banana:

Yeah the Double Cross looks amazing! I love the color, geo, and that sweet fully lugged fork. Have you ridden one? Any "gotchas" to know about?

[charliedid]

+1 for the Soma Double Cross Disc with sweet Tange tubing. :banana:

It's just the front triangle that is Tange but they are good value bikes for sure.

[Smitty2k1]

Yeah the Double Cross looks amazing! I love the color, geo, and that sweet fully lugged fork. Have you ridden one? Any "gotchas" to know about?

Don't sleep on the Fog Cutter either. That red is purrrrrty. Has a color matched carbon or a color matched steel fork with an extra attachment or two.

[Jaybee]

The Double Cross has a low stack, if I remember correctly, but depending on personal needs/preferences, it's not an insurmountable obstacle

[shoota]

The Double Cross has a low stack, if I remember correctly, but depending on personal needs/preferences, it's not an insurmountable obstacle

582mm stack for the 54cm frame doesn't seem too low to me.

[Jaybee]

582mm stack for the 54cm frame doesn't seem too low to me.

You're right, that's not remarkably low. It's just that every DC I see built up has a 50mm tower of spacers under the stem.

[shoota]

Don't sleep on the Fog Cutter either. That red is purrrrrty. Has a color matched carbon or a color matched steel fork with an extra attachment or two.

Yeah, just not sure which size I'd want. The geo seems a touch more aggressive than the Double Cross. Not necessarily a bad thing, just gotta decide what kind of riding will be done the most on it.

[shoota]

You're right, that's not remarkably low. It's just that every DC I see built up has a 50mm tower of spacers under the stem.

Agreed. Not sure what is up with that.

[macaroon]

I'd take that Milwaukee Mettle over the other options every day of the week. Full True Temper tubeset (so likely light) and internal cables on the downtube.

Having owned a couple of production steel disc braked bikes, I went back to carbon due to weight and ride quality. I don't think I'd ever buy a steel one again, unless it was full custom, but that's unlikely unless I win The Lottery.

[shoota]

I'd take that Milwaukee Mettle over the other options every day of the week. Full True Temper tubeset (so likely light) and internal cables on the downtube.

Having owned a couple of production steel disc braked bikes, I went back to carbon due to weight and ride quality. I don't think I'd ever buy a steel one again, unless it was full custom, but that's unlikely unless I win The Lottery.


I do like the geo of that bike. It's not True Temper anymore though.

*Due to the unavailability of True Temper Tubing we have made the choice to use Vari-Wall THRMLX for our new tubeset. Vari-wall THRMLX is a extremely high quality American made cromoly that we believe to be a superior replacement for the OX tubing.*

Anyone ever heard of this tubing before? I sure haven't.

[macaroon]

I do like the geo of that bike. It's not True Temper anymore though.

*Due to the unavailability of True Temper Tubing we have made the choice to use Vari-Wall THRMLX for our new tubeset. Vari-wall THRMLX is a extremely high quality American made cromoly that we believe to be a superior replacement for the OX tubing.*

Anyone ever heard of this tubing before? I sure haven't.

It sounds similar to Reynolds 853 so probably a decent tubeset. Guess you could ask the Milwaukee guys for the tubing sizes?

For example, in the link up the page, it stated a 28.6mm to 30mm seat tube, which to my untrained eye means a pretty light, not overly stiff tubeset which is probably what you're after. I had a steel frame with a 31.8mm straight seat tube and it was heavy.

[PSC]

I have the Milwaukee road bike, got it in June. Rides nice and IMO is probably the best deal going. About $2200 w/ 105 group. No sales tax or shipping charge and I got 10% credit to shop at Ben's Cycles.

[farmerjosh]

Some of the bikes mentioned in this thread look sweeeeet. Now I want a full steel all-road disc brake bike too. :help:

[Smitty2k1]

Soma just started a 20% off deal on their whole webstore. Details on their Facebook page.

[slup]

Standert Pathfinder

https://standert.de/collections/pfadfinder


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49038774723_2701e4c0bf_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hHoxeV)2019-Standert-Pfadfinder-all-road-bike_modern-Columbus-steel-disc-brake-all-road-gravel-road-bike_emerald-Rival-22 (https://flic.kr/p/2hHoxeV)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49039496467_b34d18bb83_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hHseMM)2019-Standert-Pfadfinder-all-road-bike_modern-Columbus-steel-disc-brake-all-road-gravel-road-bike_Emerald-Rush-green-detail (https://flic.kr/p/2hHseMM)

[chrismoustache]

Lots of good options tossed out there. I've been eyeing the Fairchance with the Enve fork. It's a screaming deal.