F1

[soulspinner]

Hammy wins 6th title at COTA. Is he as good as Schumacher?

[m_sasso]

No, but he is good.

[Plum Hill]

No, but he is good.

Ditto.

[quickfeet]

He’s had the benefit of historically bad competition, but he is still a clutch driver

[peanutgallery]

Absolutely not

Schumacher (and Ross Brawn) were the kings of prep and maximizing the rulebook to the nth degree, throw that in with a guy who could churn the hottest of the hot laps on super worn tires - yet light fuel...game over. Hamilton is good among his peers, but Schumaker was on another level

I liked other drivers at the time and Schumacher made me a little crazy way back when. Looking back, I wish I would have appreciated him more when he was on point. Especially since his ski accident. Truly tragic

One thing that Hamilton does share with Schumacher...I'm not a fan and I root for other drivers to beat him

[dancinkozmo]

senna was better than all of em

[Hellgate]

Meh, Marquez is better.

[dmurphey]

michael Schumacher was an evil grumpus who would rather win than race. Do not put him up with the hero of motor racing. They are great spirits. Juan Manuel Fangio, Jsckie Steward, James Hunt, Aryton Senna, Alex Zanardi... Hammy is a long term consistent champion. Only time will tell who is great. Schumacher was hyper competitive and made racing ugly.

[bicycletricycle]

Ham is real good. Lucky to be in such a dominant car but to some extent he made his own luck on that one.

[rinconryder]

But is Schumacher better than senna??:banana:

[cmb5286]

It would be exciting if MB, Ferrari, or RBR weren’t top three. I understand that money usually decides the winner, but it’s getting old imho.

[peanutgallery]

Thats all types of motor racing

It would be exciting if MB, Ferrari, or RBR weren’t top three. I understand that money usually decides the winner, but it’s getting old imho.

[soulspinner]

senna was better than all of em

Especially in low friction tracks or rainy weather prolly but that wasn't the question here.

[Dave B]

Ham might not be as good as ________________ fill in the blank, but he is dominating the current field and is a tremendous driver and has 6 world championships. He might not be as good as whomever, but that feat isn't easy at all.

I wouldn't bet against him, but it does seem that Ferrari seem to have an Achilles' heel when it comes to MB, which is always surprising to me.

Still glad he won. Heck of a driver.

[oldpotatoe]

Hammy wins 6th title at COTA. Is he as good as Schumacher?

He's probably richer than Schumacher...:)

[oldpotatoe]

senna was better than all of em

James Garner was the best...:)

[denapista]

This debate gets tired, in every sport that spans across eras...

Rule changes, car technology and a plethora of things, make it hard to actually say who's the better driver.. Hamilton has never needed to race in the manner that people praise Shumacher, mainly due to rule changes and technology creating pit strategies and knowing down to the millisecond of the racing tactics. The only way to say who the better driver is, would be to get them on the same Track, Tires and Cars.. The cars are light years faster and more technical, and Hamilton has proven to be the hands down best in this era.

I was a Mika fan, but Schumacher dominated him to a degree. That era of F1 just seemed more level field, than it is today.

As they say on ESPN about every great player "Hamilton belongs in the conversation."

[semdoug]

James Garner was the best...:)

WORD! Grand Prix is an awesome movie for any race fan.

[dancinkozmo]

James Garner was the best...:)

http://motoringme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/1970_Oldsmobile_442_Goodyear_Grabber_James_Garner_ Baja_NORRA_Race_Car_For_Sale_Magazine_resize.jpg

[acorn_user]

It would be exciting if MB, Ferrari, or RBR weren’t top three. I understand that money usually decides the winner, but it’s getting old imho.

I share this frustration, but a huge amount of this is down to the amazing reliability they have now. Back in the '90's, you'd end up (occasionally) with a Ligier winning simply because they kept going and out of the gravel (and the gravel traps finish off fewer cars these days too).

[benb]

Hamilton is great but I feel like there is so little competitiveness these days.

I don't know if I think Hamilton won or M-B won.

To be honest later in his career I think Ferrari won as much/more than Schumacher won.

I've only been to one F1 race in person, Schumacher was there. You could see & hear how skilled he was compared to the other drivers. For practice and qualifying I was sitting extremely close to a tight part of the track and you could literally hear the difference when Schumacher came through the corners due to how smooth he was... less audible tire scrub, and he was fastest.

And all those guys are insanely smooth.

[denapista]

I think the same could be said for Hamilton. He basically only loses on tracks that are flat open, since MB is down on power. When the tracks are technical, he's locked in and puts in the amazing laps to secure the win.

I'm just sad for Hamilton that he won't be recognized as a great driver. The guy has 6 titles! I don't know anyone in any sport that has multiple titles and aren't considered great. Robert Horry has 7 rings, but you can easily make a case that he was vital to all 7 of those rings.

[carpediemracing]

Hamilton is great, even if only by definition. He's first or second in a lot of statistical stuff, and every year there's been a bunch of drivers/teams that looked to unseat him.

Hamilton is great though. Although he's won driving a very good car (dominant in many seasons), he's had some clutch drives under incredible pressure.

More importantly, at least to me, there isn't a trail of really poor sportsmanship following him around. It's not like he ever got disqualified for an ENTIRE SEASON like Schumacher. I play the Mobile F1 game, and of course there's a group on Facebook and of course there are posts about the players that ram you to win and how rotten and frustrating they are. Schumacher was one of those drivers, someone that would plan on ramming you when he knew he was going to lose. I can't be a fan of that. I can respect the rest of his racing, yes, but I can't be a fan of that.

When I watch F1 highlights with my 7 year old son (as well as when he was 6 and 5), I don't worry about watching Hamilton knocking someone off the track intentionally. My son has grown up watching Hamilton win and I'm okay with him saying 44 is his favorite number and being a bit upset when Hamilton doesn't win.

To me Hamilton is like a more successful version of Hakinnen, a great racer that went about his business while maintaining a relatively high moral standard.

I think one thing that we don't see (?) is just how stressful his off-track life must be, with all the constant pressure, press, etc. Plus he obviously has other interests (music? clothing? I'm sure he thinks about his money too), etc. To balance all that with the driving part of his life...

One thing that gets me about all the F1 drivers is that they all have to maintain some ridiculous low weight to remain competitive (every kilogram counts). In some ways F1 drivers are even more pressured to be fit than, say, cyclists, because they have a long season where they have to be consistent all the time. Cyclists can be unfit in Feb as long as they perform in July, or unfit in July as long as they had a good April; this is not so with F1 drivers. F1 drivers simply cannot gain weight because that weight is measurable in laptimes. And when teams are spending millions of dollars to gain a hundredth of a second, and the driver eats a bit much and costs them a tenth... it can be the difference between getting knocked out in Q1 and making into Q3. Or beating your teammate, which is the first comparison point of any F1 driver. So a ton of pressure to be light, which can be oppressing.

[NPcycling]

I never cease to be amazed by this debate. Hamilton is clearly one of the greats.

[SpaceOdyssey]

Different eras gave us different cars/engines requiring different skill sets.

Hamilton is the greatest of the current era. We’ll see if the 2021 rules bring someone new to the top.

LeClerc looks like the real deal but Ferrari currently look like the clown act from Ringling Brothers.

Schumacher, Senna, Fangio, Moss, maybe even Lauda and Hunt (in his short lived career but I am sure I missed someone) were all greats of their generation of drivers in their generation of car.

Probably can’t compare them because of all the differences but it sure is fun to try....

[soulspinner]

Different eras gave us different cars/engines requiring different skill sets.

Hamilton is the greatest of the current era. We’ll see if the 2021 rules bring someone new to the top.

LeClerc looks like the real deal but Ferrari currently look like the clown act from Ringling Brothers.

Schumacher, Senna, Fangio, Moss, maybe even Lauda and Hunt (in his short lived career but I am sure I missed someone) were all greats of their generation of drivers in their generation of car.

Probably can’t compare them because of all the differences but it sure is fun to try....

Prost was no slouch either.

[ergott]

I think Hamilton ranks amongst the greats. He can consistently hit his lap marks managing the car better than his competitors. Hamilton's performance has also matured quite a lot from his first couple of years. This is an era where car/tire management is key in addition to simply banging out quali laps (which he is also excellent at). Hamilton has also proven he can pass his way through the field when he has to, he's a complete driver with a skill set to win championships. The car is superior, but they don't drive themselves. I don't see how you wouldn't consider him one of the best of any era, right up there with the others mentioned.

[zap]

edit

The car is superior, but they don't drive themselves. I don't see how you wouldn't consider him one of the best of any era, right up there with the others mentioned.

Hamilton's dominates his teammates. Also, he made the decision to move from McLaren to Mercedes. Very few moves to another team work out.

[FriarQuade]

Remember when he went to Merc and pretty much everyone thought he was nuts, committing career suicide. Apparently he knew something we didn't.

[goonster]

Racing mythologies are built on drama, controversy and mayhem. Hamilton's quiet consistency mean he doesn't get the credit he's due.

[zap]

Remember when he went to Merc and pretty much everyone thought he was nuts, committing career suicide. Apparently he knew something we didn't.

The hybrid power unit. If there is one firm that has the budget and can get material science right, it's Mercedes.

[tv_vt]

This thread needs some video links! :bike:

[Plum Hill]

What annoyed me the most about Schumacher was his penchant for always cutting off everyone for the first turn. Drive the car straight, don’t immediately shoot into someone else’s line.
All these guys mentioned are good at F1. What about Mario Andretti? The guy was good in everything he ran, not just one faction. And what could Dan Gurney have done in, say, a Lotus 49?
Heck, ditch this damned technological crap and bring back the Cosworth DFV.

[gary_a_gooner]

Meh, Marquez is better.

:confused:

Better in an F1 car? Not sure. Def on a bike.

I want to see how the competition changes 2021 going forward.

[carpediemracing]

This thread needs some video links! :bike:

This clip is long but it's the race that won Hamilton the 2008 championship. It's a real nail biter, and this clip really captures the uncertainty better than the F1 edited clip. It captures the gambles, the chaotic weather, just how his challenge just crumbled over 7 of the last 8 laps. It's all but lost, a seemingly unsurmountable gap to the drivers he has to pass to win the championship, Vettel the next target in this case. The rain drives in the last lap and shuffles the deck all over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HnYPtvgZ54

Crucially they missed the headbutt of the Ferrari mechanic, at 2:25 in the F1 official clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHSeGou-pCI

The Schumacher-Hill ram:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JoW4mSiZo
Schumacher literally waits to ram him. The damage to Hill's car is such that Hill is also out, and Schumacher wins the championship.

Schumacher-Villeneuve ram:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhNs_W5OQU
Schumacher actually turns in on Villeneuve, corrects (instinctively? because it's unsafe?), then turns in harder and rams Villeneuve. This time it didn't work.

[buckfifty]

Meh, Marquez is better.

MM93 is an alien among aliens and he shows no sign of slowing down. For a while, there was really no competition (Dovi is too inconsistent) until Quartararo showed up onto the scene. Should be interesting going forward especially in 2021 when Yamaha needs to make the decision to either resign Rossi or put Quartararo in the factory seat

[denapista]

Racing mythologies are built on drama, controversy and mayhem. Hamilton's quiet consistency mean he doesn't get the credit he's due.

This was supposed to be Vettel right? He's certified clown juice in an F1 uniform.That guy whines so much, and drives super dirty when he realizes he's going to lose. I never liked that guy and when he as with Red Bull, he had the best car at the time. I think Vettel is an amazing driver, but his persona is wack.