Speedplay X vs Zero?

[Sboat]

I have been ridding x-2 speedplay pedals since they came out. Thinking about trying the speedplay zero’s, anyone try the Zero going from the x series and stick with them, or go back to the x series.

[batman1425]

Rode x-2's for a season in 2007 before switching to Zeros. Have been on zeros ever since. The ability to adjust the amount of float is key.

[Tony]

I have been ridding x-2 speedplay pedals since they came out. Thinking about trying the speedplay zero’s, anyone try the Zero going from the x series and stick with them, or go back to the x series.

I made the switch from X series to the zero's several years ago and like the zero's much better. I can adjust the amount of float on the zero's, this is the only reason i like them better.

[weiwentg]

Some relevant commentary here:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=242190&highlight=speedplay+pedals
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=237201&highlight=speedplay+pedals

Basically, the Zeroes don't have the same walking on ice feeling as the Xs. They'll feel different. I got used to my new pair of Zeroes quite fast. I think the Zero cleats are a bit more resistant to fouling from dirt than the X cleats, but you don't really want to do much walking in dirt on either type.

[oldpotatoe]

I have been ridding x-2 speedplay pedals since they came out. Thinking about trying the speedplay zero’s, anyone try the Zero going from the x series and stick with them, or go back to the x series.

'Feeling' been mentioned but why switch? What 'problem' are you trying to solve or just want to try 'em and see? There might be a LBS that has loaners around you.

I tried X series but every pedal stroke, tried to center my foot..Zeros fixed that.

[makoti]

Some relevant commentary here:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=242190&highlight=speedplay+pedals
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=237201&highlight=speedplay+pedals

Basically, the Zeroes don't have the same walking on ice feeling as the Xs. They'll feel different. I got used to my new pair of Zeroes quite fast. I think the Zero cleats are a bit more resistant to fouling from dirt than the X cleats, but you don't really want to do much walking in dirt on either type.

With these, the X's don't feel that way, either.
https://www.amazon.com/Keep-Kovers-Speedplay-Cleats-Protection/dp/B00GNGJHO0/ref=pd_sbs_468_t_2/134-7654151-2279634?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GNGJHO0&pd_rd_r=b86fd9db-039c-4987-8b21-bc91dc0c50d7&pd_rd_w=DqOLh&pd_rd_wg=uANI4&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=AP69BBBBV67T0QTFK58K&psc=1&refRID=AP69BBBBV67T0QTFK58K

[Sboat]

The reason I was thinking of switching, is the fact I acquired a nice pair of zero’s on a bike I purchased, and instead of just selling them, thought I might try them out.

[berserk87]

Rule #1 on pedals is don't switch unless your current setup is causing you problems. That being said, there's probably not that much difference between the X-Series and the Zero Series. The Zero cleats do appear to be more expensive lately though.

[djg21]

The zero cleats don’t wear as quickly because the retaining clips/springs are flat, rather than round like in the X. The clips in the X pedals IME developed flat spots and it would feel like my foot wasn’t flat on the pedal and tilted to the outside.

With the float adjustment on the zeros, the zeros als0 can be set up to come out of with less heel rotation, and to keep the heels of your shoes from hitting your crank.

I used Speedplays for over 25 years until this season, when I switched to Garmin Vectors. Now that Wahoo purchased Speedplay and it seems imminent that a Speedplay power meter will be available, I likely will switch back to Speedplay.

[weiwentg]

...Now that Wahoo purchased Speedplay and it seems imminent that a Speedplay power meter will be available, I likely will switch back to Speedplay.

I don't think one is imminent. The announcement came out of the blue. There's no public knowledge that anyone at Wahoo or Speedplay have done any sort of development work for this. I think knowledgeable parties like DC Rainmaker say it would take at least a few years to get Speedplay power meters.

Metrigear initially developed a Speedplay spindle-based PM, but they got bought by Garmin. Brim Brothers did a cleat-based PM, but they went under. If Wahoo acquired their IP, it's not public knowledge. So, we are likely talking about developing from scratch.

I certainly wish Wahoo well. More competition is good! I just don't think that anything can possibly be imminent.

[djg21]

I don't think one is imminent. The announcement came out of the blue. There's no public knowledge that anyone at Wahoo or Speedplay have done any sort of development work for this. I think knowledgeable parties like DC Rainmaker say it would take at least a few years to get Speedplay power meters.

Metrigear initially developed a Speedplay spindle-based PM, but they got bought by Garmin. Brim Brothers did a cleat-based PM, but they went under. If Wahoo acquired their IP, it's not public knowledge. So, we are likely talking about developing from scratch.

I certainly wish Wahoo well. More competition is good! I just don't think that anything can possibly be imminent.

I haven’t read any patent claims, but I’m not sure to what extent the use of strain gauges in hollow pedal spindles or elsewhere in pedals to measure power (like Metrigear/Garmin/Powertap/Assioma/SRM, etc.) is non-obvious or covered by patents. I just don’t know.

Speedplay missed the boat here, and needs to have a power meter to stop losing market share. I’ll be that there will be news of a Speedplay powermeter by next season.

[Bentley]

With these, the X's don't feel that way, either.
https://www.amazon.com/Keep-Kovers-Speedplay-Cleats-Protection/dp/B00GNGJHO0/ref=pd_sbs_468_t_2/134-7654151-2279634?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GNGJHO0&pd_rd_r=b86fd9db-039c-4987-8b21-bc91dc0c50d7&pd_rd_w=DqOLh&pd_rd_wg=uANI4&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=AP69BBBBV67T0QTFK58K&psc=1&refRID=AP69BBBBV67T0QTFK58K

The X's when on the bike can feel like "walking on ice" he did not mean that walking with X's felt like walking on ice. I think that would not be the right way to characterize walking with the X's, I would say its uncomfortable, difficult to walk with the X's. The new walkable cleats for the Zero's fixes walking with the cleats.

[weiwentg]

I haven’t read any patent claims, but I’m not sure to what extent the use of strain gauges in hollow pedal spindles or elsewhere in pedals to measure power (like Metrigear/Garmin/Powertap/Assioma/SRM, etc.) is non-obvious or covered by patents. I just don’t know.

Speedplay missed the boat here, and needs to have a power meter to stop losing market share. I’ll be that there will be news of a Speedplay powermeter by next season.

I am not an engineer. From the little bits I can decipher of Keith Wakeham's YouTube vids, every spindle is a bit different, so the placement and arrangement of the strain gauges will differ by brand. Plus one has to find space for batteries and transmitters, and then find a manufacturing partner, and then make sure they do the job consistently. There's probably a lot of processes we can't even conceive of. Recall that Brim Brothers thought they had it nailed, and then they took delivery of the first shipment, and they found out they were skunked. It looks simple to us when it's done, but getting there is not simple.

[makoti]

The X's when on the bike can feel like "walking on ice" he did not mean that walking with X's felt like walking on ice. I think that would not be the right way to characterize walking with the X's, I would say its uncomfortable, difficult to walk with the X's. The new walkable cleats for the Zero's fixes walking with the cleats.

That feeling lasts about 3 minutes, then it just feels natural. Personally, I love the full float of the X's. Anyone tossing their X's, send them my way.

[Bentley]

That feeling lasts about 3 minutes, then it just feels natural. Personally, I love the full float of the X's. Anyone tossing their X's, send them my way.

Agree, but not all people make that adjustment. I would say it was a periodic distraction, generally occurred when I came up out of the saddle and started a hard push... its something you either get used to or dont, but my point was that it was not about walking in the cleats, it was a sensation when you are on the bike, the covers dont do anything for that.

[djg21]

I am not an engineer. From the little bits I can decipher of Keith Wakeham's YouTube vids, every spindle is a bit different, so the placement and arrangement of the strain gauges will differ by brand. Plus one has to find space for batteries and transmitters, and then find a manufacturing partner, and then make sure they do the job consistently. There's probably a lot of processes we can't even conceive of. Recall that Brim Brothers thought they had it nailed, and then they took delivery of the first shipment, and they found out they were skunked. It looks simple to us when it's done, but getting there is not simple.

Brim Brothers had issues with capital, relying on Kickstarter to finance development of its power meter. https://cyclingtips.com/2016/11/when-a-crowdfunded-product-fails-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-brim-brothers-power-meter/.
Wahoo has much deeper pockets and can afford to develop or license necessary technology. My guess is that there will be more of a willingness to work with Wahoo than there was to work with Richard Bryne. We will just have to wait to see what Wahoo has in mind.

[berserk87]

Speedplay missed the boat here, and needs to have a power meter to stop losing market share. I’ll be that there will be news of a Speedplay powermeter by next season.

Are they losing market share?

Or are you projecting that they will without a power meter option? Not sure what you are saying.

[Elefantino]

X user for 21 years. Tried Zeros but need more float for my bum left knee. Suppose I could use X on one side and Zero on the other but that would be weird.

[djg21]

Are they losing market share?

Or are you projecting that they will without a power meter option? Not sure what you are saying.

I make a presumption based on anecdotal evidence. Among the people I know who have been Speedplay users, including myself — since the early 90s — a good number have switched to Powertap, Garmin, or other pedals with a power meter. If there were Speedplay power meter (pedal based that could be switched between bikes easily with bilateral power), I would never have considered switching. I had this conversation during a ride last week and at least three people who also switched from Speedplay agreed. Interestingly. I was really psyched for Metrigear when it was designing a power meter for Speedplay, making use of the Speedplay’s hollow spindle. The Garmin Vector 3 has been a mixed bag for me, given issues with the battery doors and drop outs, which required a warranty replacement. The pedals are now stable and function fine knock on wood.

[Mark McM]

I make a presumption based on anecdotal evidence. Among the people I know who have been Speedplay users, including myself — since the early 90s — a good number have switched to Powertap, Garmin, or other pedals with a power meter.

Speedplay probably has lost some customers who want a pedal based power meter. But what percent of the market does this represent? Probably only a small fraction. While I think it is a good guess that Wahoo wants to make a pedal based power meter, I suspect that the reason the owners of Speedplay sold the company to Wahoo has more to do with wanting to retire and get out of the business (Speedplay has been privately owned since its founding over about 30 years ago).