Cleat position and/or wedging...

[oldguy00]

Is cleat wedging still a thing? I'm finding that my foot, while pedaling, seems to naturally want to tilt to the outside. Meaning, the inside of my foot wants to lift up and kind of pull away from the bike, in turn causing pressure on the outside of my foot.
I guess kind of like the attached pic.

I don't know if this is indicative of a cleat placement issue, or if I need to get wedges to add depth to the inside side of my cleat?

Oddly I seem to notice it a lot on the upstroke, like my foot is pulling diagonally upward and outward.....this is the part that makes me wonder if cleat placement is part of the issue,,,

Help!

[sfscott]

As someone who does the same thing, I’ve found it has to do more with hip flexibility, lateral cleat position, leg length discrepancies and (at least in my case) my gut getting in the way.

[ultraman6970]

If the cleats are in ok position and the angle of the cleats are ok... then you have a varus/valgus situation (IME OK?)....

Yes you can use an angled shim to fix the problem, you can go under the cleat or under the insole.

What you can do to test is to put some strip of handlebar tape under the big toe bone and extend that all the way under the arch... or a tiny strip under the ball bone and then another strip over the arch area and see who it goes because sometimes is not a problem with the whole foot tilting but what is needed is to re accommodate tiny bit parts of the foot. At the same time stabilize the arch, which looks like is your case since you feel the arch not connected with the insole, ime you might need to shim the arch maybe aswell.

This is in my experience ok? other people will give you a similar solution in another way. IME aswell I use the concept the guys from solestar do. Actually I use their carbon insoles when I can find them because are way out of my range. Their concept is based in 3 points and since my arches tend to fall and one in particular did the same than tours does (flexible arches) to tune up 2 of the 3 points helped to me in my left foot which was the one that giving problems all the time after an hour.

Hope this helps. You can find the cleats and the under the insole shims at ebay, sure guys have them moving around here aswell.

[oldguy00]

As someone who does the same thing, I’ve found it has to do more with hip flexibility, lateral cleat position, leg length discrepancies and (at least in my case) my gut getting in the way.

Thanks, could definitely be my issue as well, I have CAM/FAI in on hip and throws everything out of alignment, which I believe also gives me a slight 'functional' leg length difference. And of course everything is tight.

But every pic I've ever seen of myself on the bike, from the front, I can see my shoes are tilting to the outside. Aside from stretching and strengthening that hip, which I try to do, I wish there were something I could do to the cleats to help..

[oldguy00]

If the cleats are in ok position and the angle of the cleats are ok... then you have a varus/valgus situation (IME OK?)....

Yes you can use an angled shim to fix the problem, you can go under the cleat or under the insole.

What you can do to test is to put some strip of handlebar tape under the big toe bone and extend that all the way under the arch... or a tiny strip under the ball bone and then another strip over the arch area and see who it goes because sometimes is not a problem with the whole foot tilting but what is needed is to re accommodate tiny bit parts of the foot. At the same time stabilize the arch, which looks like is your case since you feel the arch not connected with the insole, ime you might need to shim the arch maybe aswell.

This is in my experience ok? other people will give you a similar solution in another way. IME aswell I use the concept the guys from solestar do. Actually I use their carbon insoles when I can find them because are way out of my range. Their concept is based in 3 points and since my arches tend to fall and one in particular did the same than tours does (flexible arches) to tune up 2 of the 3 points helped to me in my left foot which was the one that giving problems all the time after an hour.

Hope this helps. You can find the cleats and the under the insole shims at ebay, sure guys have them moving around here aswell.


Thanks may give that a try.
I should mention, I have a ridiculously hard to fit foot, thus am finally getting a pair of custom bike shoes (Simmons). So hopefully will fit perfect, but I doubt they will have volume for a corrective aftermarket insole. So cleat wedging would probably be my option.

[John H.]

You may indeed need wedging, but from what you describe- Your feet need to be wider.
1st move cleats all the way wide. If you still have the "knees out" thing going on you should add pedal spacers between the crank and pedal and possibly even move to pedals with wider spindles.

[C40_guy]

Might try cleat wedges to see if a slightly angled mount will help. I use the old Look CX7 pedals which have an angle function built in...

However...if you have a good bike fitter near you, I'd suggest that a fitting would be an excellent first step. A good fitter can diagnose all sorts of problems and recommend various approaches to addressing them...

It can be very difficult to self diagnose...

[oldguy00]

John H - Thanks and yes I am going to try that as well, have speedplays and there is still some room on the cleat to move my feet outward. I do have wider hip bones than typical cyclist, built more like a sprinter, so maybe that will help and easy to try I guess.

C40 - No good fitters around me, been down that road before. Probably an 8 hour drive to the closest recommended fitter. I have managed to get some help online via videos etc for my general bike position, so may explore that option again for the cleats.

[kgreene10]

I have a similar issue due to a hip injury from a crash. I have had the most improvement from working on hip and groin flexibility and on foot strength. I have also tried adding a thin strip on foam backed tape under my big toe, a custom orthotic and wedges as well as angling the clear so that I’m a bit toe out. Oh, and a sturdy saddle with minimal flex in the shell.

The sum total of this experience tells me to work on the body consistently and try the smallest changes to fit that you can. Anything you do with fit is to accommodate rather than fix a body that’s not working symmetrically.

[djg21]

John H - Thanks and yes I am going to try that as well, have speedplays and there is still some room on the cleat to move my feet outward. I do have wider hip bones than typical cyclist, built more like a sprinter, so maybe that will help and easy to try I guess.

C40 - No good fitters around me, been down that road before. Probably an 8 hour drive to the closest recommended fitter. I have managed to get some help online via videos etc for my general bike position, so may explore that option again for the cleats.

What Speedplays? If you are on the old X models, you may need to replace or rebuild the cleats. The round springs in those wear and flat spots develop. In y case it was on the outside of the springs which made me feel like my feet were tilted out. The Zeros have flat springs and don’t wear the same way.

[djg21]

Thanks may give that a try.
I should mention, I have a ridiculously hard to fit foot, thus am finally getting a pair of custom bike shoes (Simmons). So hopefully will fit perfect, but I doubt they will have volume for a corrective aftermarket insole. So cleat wedging would probably be my option.

Simmons supposedly molds the sole to be corrective. You shouldn’t need to add aftermarket varus or valgus to a custom shoe. The point of custom is to address foot issues and put the foot in a neutral position in the shoe. Speak to Simmons and let it make any corrections it thinks necessary.

[oldguy00]

What Speedplays? If you are on the old X models, you may need to replace or rebuild the cleats. The round springs in those wear and flat spots develop. In y case it was on the outside of the springs which made me feel like my feet were tilted out. The Zeros have flat springs and don’t wear the same way.

Yep on zeros, been using them for over 10 years.

[John H.]

You can get wider spindles for Speedplay zero pedals- Easy to make stance wider. They make multiple sizes. Their are also aftermarket versions that are longer in length.

[Veloo]

Too bad you're not on 3 hole cleats. I would've sent you some wedges to try since you're also north of the border.

[gbcoupe]

Every pair of Speedplay Zero's I've bought has come with shims. I've never had a need for them, but have a hard time throwing things away. I'll have to check to make sure I still have them. I could send you a couple sets if they are still around.

[pdxharth]

I have a similar issue. For me, pronation causes it. As my ankle rolls in, it turns my foot in the shoe, forcing the small toe to the outside. It hurts.

I recently added a metatarsal pad to my orthotics, which seemed to alleviate it a little. Still testing that out.

I’m curious, where did you get that image of the foot pain?

[djg21]

Every pair of Speedplay Zero's I've bought has come with shims. I've never had a need for them, but have a hard time throwing things away. I'll have to check to make sure I still have them. I could send you a couple sets if they are still around.

Those shims are not for canting the foot (Varus/Valgus), but to make a flat surface on the shoe sole to mount the cleats to. If you put the cleats on a sole with curvature, you often will have issues with pedal release and entry.

[gbcoupe]

Did not know that. Always thought it was odd that they were included. I never needed them and didn't pursue it. Thanks for the education.

[oldguy00]

...

I’m curious, where did you get that image of the foot pain?


https://blog.bikefit.com/tag/foot-tilt/

[oldguy00]

Simmons supposedly molds the sole to be corrective. You shouldn’t need to add aftermarket varus or valgus to a custom shoe. The point of custom is to address foot issues and put the foot in a neutral position in the shoe. Speak to Simmons and let it make any corrections it thinks necessary.

Good point.....So, I guess it depends on how much correction you are thinking.

So for example, when I've been to a podiatrist to try custom running orthotics, they manually lined up my foot/ankle with an amount of lift/angle they thought I needed and casted my foot into that position (or something like that).

For custom cycling shoes, I've seen two different types of casting, one is Rocket7's method, where they have you put on a casting sock and push your foot against a wood board with an upward tilt at the front. I guess that is what the consider a neutral position?

For Simmons, they don't use a defined shaped board, rather they have you rest your foot on a soft folded towel to put your foot on after you've wrapped it with casting material, to allow your foot to kind of rest in a neutral/natural position, I guess kind of like sinking into a crush box.

I'm not sure if either of these methods truly correct for a valgus/varus issue.

For me, the custom shoe was more about matching the shape of my foot, which is usually in pain in off the shelf shoes.