OT: Scary car tire change

[LegendRider]

I had a scary incident this morning while showing my son how to change a car tire. We attempted to change the right, front tire of an old Camry that he will ultimately drive.

We started with the jack from the car. The car was basically on level ground, in park, emergency brake on and the jack placed in the proper location. As the wheel begin to lift off the ground the jack began to tilt - that is, it was no longer perpendicular to the ground. We lowered the car and tried two more times with the same result. Next, we got another, larger Toyota jack from my Highlander. The car lifted and the jack seemed to be fine. After removing stubborn lug nuts my son began to remove the tire when the car fell. The jack didn't collapse vertically - it basically fell over.

We have free roadside service so I had them come out. When asked what the heck happened the technician said he sees it all the time and it's the fault of cheap jacks. His unit was much bulkier and sturdier.

Is that the case? Do simple jacks that came with 13 year old Toyotas just fail like that? Or, was there some sort of user error?

Finally, my son's hand was caught between the tire and fender, but he was fine. It certainly could have been a lot worse.

Thanks in advance to you car guys and engineers who can explain what happened.

[vav]

After removing stubborn lug nuts my son began to remove the tire when the car fell. The jack didn't collapse vertically - it basically fell over.

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I always loosen up the tire nut with the tire still touching the ground and the jack not even placed under the car yet. Once loose (all of the nuts) then up goes the jack. Glad your son is OK.

[LegendRider]

I always loosen up the tire nut with the tire still touching the ground and the jack not even placed under the car yet. Once loose (all of the nuts) then up goes the jack. Glad your son is OK.

I didn't think of that but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for the tip.

[dustyrider]

Loosen lugnuts on the ground. Chock a wheel!:eek:

[Nomadmax]

As mentioned, break lug nuts loose before raising the car unless you're using a rattle gun.

Always chock as many wheels as you can.

Never touch a car that isn't backed or supported by jack stands, I even carry one and chocks for changing flats on the road.

[VTCaraco]

if you're going to do much at all with your vehicles, get a decent jack.

I've never found the factory jacks to be solid in a way that I trust.

I've got a few jacks...
One cheapy from WalMart or Harbor Freight or such. A sub $50 unit that has never failed me, but the carriage is definitely small.
Second is a substantial commercial grade that is/was less desirable because of the weight of the unit (at the time that the aluminum lighter-weight jacks started to grow in popularity.
Between the two, some good jack-stands, and a set of ramps, I tackle as much as I can on my own.


And I, too, always loosen lug nuts/bolts before unweighting the wheel and use a torque wrench as my final step when reinstalling wheels.

[eddief]

without something like a jack stand or even a couple of 4x4 wooden blocks. they don't bleed.

[Ken Robb]

Years ago I bought a scissors jack from a junk yard. I don't know what vehicle it came with originally but it was much better than the "bumper" jacks that came with many cars. I gave it away when I started driving cars with no room for a spare tire. For better or worse I have been relying on AAA. The truth is I'm old enough that I don't want try wrestling with one of my big wide tire/wheel combos.

[saab2000]

I always loosen up the tire nut with the tire still touching the ground and the jack not even placed under the car yet. Once loose (all of the nuts) then up goes the jack. Glad your son is OK.

This is important. I manually change my wheels every year and this is a tip I remember well.

Loosen, then lift. Same with tightening. Get them finger snug on the jack. Do the real tightening with that car off the crack and on the ground.

Good on the OP for teaching this skill. Changing a wheel is basic knowledge but many folks I know can’t do it. One flat and you’ll be glad you know how it is done proper
U.

[Bentley]

I always loosen up the tire nut with the tire still touching the ground and the jack not even placed under the car yet. Once loose (all of the nuts) then up goes the jack. Glad your son is OK.

This... also when I have the tires replaced or rotated, no impact wrench.

[old fat man]

The jack in the car is for emergencies. I'd be reluctant to even use it in an emergency frankly. Buy a $50 unit from harbor freight to use at home. Call AAA if you have an incident away from home.

[jtakeda]

Loosen lugnuts on the ground. Chock a wheel!:eek:

Chock the wheel!

[mktng]

Good thing you and your son are okay. ..


I use a 5 ton floor jack for tire changes, and on top of that chock the wheels. I do not trust the factory jacks. They should only be used in emergencies.

Like everyone else said. Loosen lug nuts first before lifting.




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[Dekonick]

I always loosen up the tire nut with the tire still touching the ground and the jack not even placed under the car yet. Once loose (all of the nuts) then up goes the jack. Glad your son is OK.

^^ THIS ^^ Also get a quality tire iron and keep it in the car.

Tangent, when changing a tire, move as far off of the road as possible. Quite a few fatalities from traffic just clipping a poor motorist changing a tire. Don't forget to check the pressure in the spare from time to time...

[p nut]

Assuming the OP is asking about on the ride of the road situations where his son won’t have access to a huge floor jack....

I’ve never had the situation OP described happen. And I’ve changed my fair share of flat tires. I’m guessing rocking the car back from loosening the lugs with the wheel in the air did it. As said above, I always loosened on the ground, jack up, lugs off, and new tire on.

Also, I see a lot of this, but the spare tire is not to be used on the drive wheels (front, in this case). If the flat is up front, remove a rear wheel first, put the spare on, then change out the front with the rear.

[Louis]

Also, I see a lot of this, but the spare tire is not to be used on the drive wheels (front, in this case). If the flat is up front, remove a rear wheel first, put the spare on, then change out the front with the rear.

Interesting. However, I've never heard of this requirement, whether you're talking about a full-sized or compact spare. And what about if, like me, you have an AWD car and a compact spare? I've never seen anything in the owner's manual of a RWD, FWD, or AWD car about not putting the spare on a drive wheel.

[p nut]

Interesting. However, I've never heard of this requirement, whether you're talking about a full-sized or compact spare. And what about if, like me, you have an AWD car and a compact spare? I've never seen anything in the owner's manual of a RWD, FWD, or AWD car about not putting the spare on a drive wheel.

I remember reading it in at least a couple owners manuals many years ago.

Here is a link from Tirerack

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=237

“ For example, the tires fitted as Original Equipment on 2013 Honda Accord sedans roll about 800 times every mile, while the Accord's shorter diameter Temporary/Compact Spare tire rolls about 850 times per mile (a difference of 50 tire revolutions per mile or about a 6% increase). Driving at higher than recommended speeds or for prolonged periods of time can result in excessive heat leading to driveline noise, wear or failure.
For this reason, many vehicle manufacturers recommend using Temporary/Compact Spare tires only in non-driven-wheel positions.“

For AWD/4WD vehicles, most come with full size spares or at least tires with the same overall diameter, so probably not an issue. And if they’re those skinny full size spares, I personally put them in the back instead of the front (steering axle) in case of a blow out, which spare tires are more prone to.

[pobrien]

One thing I always do is to loosen the nuts on the wheel studs with the tire just off the ground and then jostle the tire with my foot (controlled kicks to the tire sidewall) to loosen the rim from the car before jacking the car high enough to easily remove the tire.

I have never had a problem with the Toyota jack in my car as I follow the above process religiously. As another said above, you have a flat out in the wild and you do not have extra jacks or tools available.

I would slide the spare tire under the edge of the car as one level of protection if the car was bumped while jacked up.

[sitzmark]

... As the wheel begin to lift off the ground the jack began to tilt - that is, it was no longer perpendicular to the ground. We lowered the car and tried two more times with the same result. Next, we got another, larger Toyota jack from my Highlander. The car lifted and the jack seemed to be fine. After removing stubborn lug nuts my son began to remove the tire when the car fell. The jack didn't collapse vertically - it basically fell over. ...

Is that the case? Do simple jacks that came with 13 year old Toyotas just fail like that? Or, was there some sort of user error? ...

Scary indeed. Good news about no serious injury resulting.

The design of independent suspensions often leads to "dragging" a tire across the pavement as the vehicle is raised by the frame/unibody. Short/long multi-point control arms are designed to keep the wheel alignment perpendicular in the normal range of travel rather than traveling in an "arc". As a scissor jack extends and the body rises there can be forces (from all 4 wheels) that pull the jack out of alignment. Weak jacks bend and sway with the forces and do distort from perpendicular. As scissor jacks extend the jack's base of support narrows and non-vertical forces challenge the joint design/materials. On many vehicles, getting the body high enough to pull a wheel off the ground (maxing out suspension travel) requires the jack to be significantly extended toward its end of travel. Emergency jacks are an engineering challenge - light and compact enough for uses/storage vs strong enough to support thousands of pounds of pressure. In general .... an accident waiting to happen.

Depending on lower control arm design it is often possible to find a suitable location on the control arm to raise the wheel off the ground with much less jack extension - often not even 50% extension. There are many caveats to this, like avoiding contact with steering/alignment linkages and weak(er) points in the control arm where leverage is less desirable. That said, a block of wood to spread forces and a flat spot (across spring bed or strut mount) on the lower control arm can be a much safer way to get a tire off the ground for changing. As many have noted - do all the heavy wrenching while all four tires are on the ground.

Lifting just the one wheel eliminates suspension forces from the other three corners as suspension components contort to adapt to raising the body at one corner. It's not a one-size-fits-all approach and requires consideration of the physics involved, which is why it isn't in the owner's manual. Light weight cast/forged aluminum control arms require extra special attention to jack placement ... or not at all for some designs.

[unterhausen]

I don't see how the jack can tilt without the car moving. Assuming the OP put the parking brake on, that would suggest the rear brakes aren't working.

Our new Camry has electronic control of the parking brake, so I have no idea how it works. If it's just the transmission, that seems like a problem

[Vientomas]

Please don't take offense, but did you read the owner's manual relative to changing a tire?

I don't know if this a a page from your year Camry, but proper jack location and chocking of wheels is described.

http://www.m-sedan.com/replacing_a_flat_tire-6191.html

Glad no one was seriously injuried. I change out winter and summer wheels twice a year on two vehicles with a 3 ton floor jack. Every time I think to myself, "Sure hope that jack does not fail." The jack is hydraulic, so hopefully if it does fail, it will be a relatively slow drop.

[HenryA]

snipped a bunch.....

I would slide the spare tire under the edge of the car as one level of protection if the car was bumped while jacked up.

^^^^

Always this when you don’t have jackstands or some pieces of timber to crib it up with. Next rule is — never put any part of your body under the car.

At home I use some 18” long 4 x 6 timbers stacked double cross wise to rest the car on. Jack it up, let it down on the solid rest. Then work on it.