OT: Uneven Heating... Recommendations?

[xeladragon]

I have forced air heating in my home. My daughter's room is on the same floor as mine, but hers is noticeably colder during the winter. Last winter, I installed window insulator kits (https://www.amazon.com/3M-Indoor-Window-Insulator-5-Window/dp/B00002NCJI/ref=lp_495374_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1570635002&sr=1-5) in her room, and that helps a little bit, but the temperature difference is still noticeable.

I also have a Nest thermostat (my room) and sensor (her room), so that at night, the heat comes on based on the temp in her room.

Anything else I can do to try to even out the uneven heating?

I don't think there are any space heaters that are safe for running overnight.

I used to close vents in room(s) that we don't use much, but then I read online that that's not necessarily good for your HVAC system, so I stopped doing that.

Tips/recommendations appreciated. Thanks guys!

[unterhausen]

her room must be further along the ducting. You can generally adjust dampers to even out the airflow. Also check to see if the ducts are properly insulated or leaking

[xeladragon]

her room must be further along the ducting. You can generally adjust dampers to even out the airflow. Also check to see if the ducts are properly insulated or leaking
Her room is further along, but heat comes out of the vent pretty well. I definitely have some weaker vents in the house, and the one in her room is not one of them. Checking if the ducts are property insulated or leaking sounds reasonable, but not something a non-HVAC professional like myself can do. :(

[MattTuck]

I've used those shrink wrap kits before and never found them to be particularly impressive.

If you think the window is the main culprit for heat loss, I'd go all the way and install some blinds (like from select blinds) and a curtain. We have that set up in our nursery, and it is typically 5-8 degrees warmer at night in there, than at the thermostat in the hall (door is shut, but not latched over night).

If you're not sure about the window, consider checking the insulation above her room. perhaps there are some spots where the insulation is uneven, not installed properly. Most heat escapes by rising.

But, if you have old drafty windows, and the draft is the cause of the heat loss, the shrink wrap kit may be the only thing you can do to stop air flow.

[cash05458]

I understand your hesitance on space heaters...but maybe try one of those ones that has a bit of oil in it and heats slowly...they have no fans etc...apologies that I don't know exactly how they are called but they sort look like old style room radiators on wheels...we use one in our house here in vermont in a room that doesn't get enough heat and it really helps...and they don't get hot enough to burn a child...just put out a slow steady area heat and as far as I know are fairly immune from accidents that might involve a young kid...

[donevwil]

After unsuccessfully trying to track down heat loss in the coldest room in my house I borrowed an infrared camera from work, showed clearly the heat loss was from a 4' section of uninsulated wall as opposed to the two windows I suspected.

Most big hardware stores rent them (Home Depot, etc.) as well as tool rental shops.

[AngryScientist]

After unsuccessfully trying to track down heat loss in the coldest room in my house I borrowed an infrared camera from work, showed clearly the heat loss was from a 4' section of uninsulated wall as opposed to the two windows I suspected.

Most big hardware stores rent them (Home Depot, etc.) as well as tool rental shops.

ha, i've done the same thing. flir cameras are really awesome.

[xeladragon]

After unsuccessfully trying to track down heat loss in the coldest room in my house I borrowed an infrared camera from work, showed clearly the heat loss was from a 4' section of uninsulated wall as opposed to the two windows I suspected.

Most big hardware stores rent them (Home Depot, etc.) as well as tool rental shops.
Hmm... interesting idea. Thanks for the tip.

And the windows are pretty new... new construction just a few years ago.

[Ozz]

We had some problems with heating in our house (a remodeled 1952 house) and it turned out that the owners who did the remodel didn't install sufficient ductwork for good airflow and such....figured this out when looking at installing A/C.

We ended up installing a couple ductless heating/cooling units and they work great....a bit pricey, but so far worth every cent. No real impact on power bills either, even with A/C running in summer.

Cheers.

[AngryScientist]

also - a ceiling fan may help if the heat is stratifying in the room.

[foo_fighter]

How about a register booster?

[R3awak3n]

ha, i've done the same thing. flir cameras are really awesome.

woah I need to rent one of these things.... to tell me my whole house needs insulation.

[Hilltopperny]

I would to see if everything is insulated properly as well. There should be silver tape around your duct work at the seams if it is a metal system. If it is flexible venting you shouldn't be able to see through it.

You can check for a draft by the window as well. Windows should be insulated around the outer perimeter in order to fully retain heat.

Sent from my LGL423DL using Tapatalk

[benb]

Huh.. we have some cold spots we should rent one of these cameras too.

They are mostly around the corners of the house and/or rooms with lots of windows.

But our house is relatively new (2006) and we have very nice Anderson windows.

I could definitely see something like a missing piece of insulation being a factor.

[djg21]

I have forced air heating in my home. My daughter's room is on the same floor as mine, but hers is noticeably colder during the winter. Last winter, I installed window insulator kits (https://www.amazon.com/3M-Indoor-Window-Insulator-5-Window/dp/B00002NCJI/ref=lp_495374_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1570635002&sr=1-5) in her room, and that helps a little bit, but the temperature difference is still noticeable.

I also have a Nest thermostat (my room) and sensor (her room), so that at night, the heat comes on based on the temp in her room.

Anything else I can do to try to even out the uneven heating?

I don't think there are any space heaters that are safe for running overnight.

I used to close vents in room(s) that we don't use much, but then I read online that that's not necessarily good for your HVAC system, so I stopped doing that.

Tips/recommendations appreciated. Thanks guys!

I have a similar issue. My HVAC is not “zoned” and to get a habitable temperature in upstairs bedrooms, the ground level is freezing in the summer with the AC. In the winter, the bedrooms can become too warm when the ground floor is heated to a reasonable temperature.

It wasn’t a compete solution, but I replaced the thermostat (only one in my home) with one made by Ecobee (https://www.ecobee.com/) that has little sensors that you place in various rooms throughout the house, and they sense when the room is occupied and adjust the heat/AC accordingly. Like I said, it’s not zoned HVAC, but it does help somewhat.

[2metalhips]

My thermostat (Honeywell) has a circulation setting. The furnace fan comes on every 20 minutes and runs for 10 minutes independent of whether the heat or AC in on. It helps to even out the temp variants in the house/condo. It's not perfect but helps.

[djg21]

My thermostat (Honeywell) has a circulation setting. The furnace fan comes on every 20 minutes and runs for 10 minutes independent of whether the heat or AC in on. It helps to even out the temp variants in the house/condo. It's not perfect but helps.

Same with the Ecobee. I can have the fan run full time, or for alternating minimum periods of time (i.e. 20 min/hour). It does help.

[xeladragon]

My thermostat (Honeywell) has a circulation setting. The furnace fan comes on every 20 minutes and runs for 10 minutes independent of whether the heat or AC in on. It helps to even out the temp variants in the house/condo. It's not perfect but helps.

Hmm... interesting. I think I can do that with Nest as well. I'll have to double check.

[NHAero]

The IR scanner is a good idea.

The HVAC trade is by far the worst in US residential construction. How much of the system is in an attic and above the thermal boundary of the house? It's so common to see air handlers and ducts in the attic above the insulated ceiling below - that's putting your heating system outdoors.

If I were diagnosing this, I would:
- Look at the placement and condition of the heating equipment, especially if it's in the attic. Note defects to be remediated.
- Measure the air flow to each room and the temperature of the delivered air to calculate the heating capacity delivered to each room.
- Do a quick heat loss calc for each room and compare to the above.

If your daughter's room has a shortfall and there aren't obvious system defects, then use the balancing dampers and lower the air flow to your room.

Don't assume that a house built recently doesn't have these issues. A good friend's son bought a new, very nice looking, large house a few years ago just south of Boston. That winter was the one (2015?) we got pounded with snow. The house had mega ice dams caused by uncontrolled heat loss from the heated portion of the house, and from the heating system components located in the kneewalls and attic. The resultant mold damage necessitated them abandoning the house and having it gutted and rebuilt.

Yesterday I was assessing causes of high fuel use in a beautiful ocean-front home. In the crawl space I could see two disconnected ducts. Of the four air handlers, two were above the thermal boundary in the attic. Nothing unusual here :-(

The lack of understanding of basic building science, and the quality of the HVAC trade, is such that I could easily expand my work to be a fulltime forensic investigator.

[unterhausen]

You can check for a draft by the window as well. Windows should be insulated around the outer perimeter in order to fully retain heat.
I recently did a tile backsplash in the kitchen, and when I took off the window trim it turned out there was zero insulation around the window. Not even fiberglass. This house was built at the advent of 6" studs, so they were worried about insulation, but they did a horrible job of it. They also failed to insulate the wall behind the soffit in the kitchen. I should rent an IR camera too.

[Dave]

If the duct to the room is accessible, a booster fan in the duct might help. There are a lot of electric heaters made that plug into a wall outlet and really can add a lot of heat to a room. Most would be perfectly safe placed on top of a dresser.

[paredown]

Agree with the criticism of the HVAC folks, and a close second would the crappy insulation installers, followed by the guys installing windows and doors who haven't got a clue...

[Tandem Rider]

If the room is cold in winter, there isn't enough heat getting to the room to overcome the heat loss from the room, I know, duhh. The camera is an excellent idea, it might tell you more than you want to know. Temporary "fix" might be to toggle the fan onto continuous run. You really need to fix any obvious issues with the building itself first and couple that with inspecting your ductwork for any issues. Get up into your attic and look around for insulation pulled back or missing. Check your basement or crawlspace to make sure the box sill got insulated. If that doesn't resolve it, then pay to have a heat loss calculation done and the airflow into each room measured, not guessed at.

[buddybikes]

New house, forced hot water. We went through that with old house, had heat pumps to add, wife sat under one in winter. Tiny house now and cozy warm

[zennmotion]

I'm not an HVAC expert, but nobody has mentioned the role or importance of the return vents that allow circulation through the system. Forced air in but no escape makes for a very inefficient system with cold rooms. People often park furniture against or near the returns thinking that's no big deal since they're not "heating" vents. Make sure that the return vents 1) exist in the cold rooms and 2) are not blocked by furniture or dust bunnies. If they're old and gross with dust restricting airflow, vent covers are often more easily replaced than cleaned

[xeladragon]

Thanks everyone for your input. From a glass-half-full perspective, at least the heating/insulation at my new place is better than what I had previously (new construction in 2008; my mom's house built 100 years earlier is better heated/insulated). Looking forward to trying a few of the recommendations... will report back.

[Dekonick]

https://www.amazon.com/Flair-Compatible-Honeywell-thermostats-Assistant/dp/B07TLHNXJT

Try something like this.

[jds108]

When you're only using the heat from the central system, go ahead and close any vents to even out the temps.

The problems that come with closing vents are only going to happen when you're using the A/C.

Cooling takes much more airflow, and thus closing vents can cause problems.

[daker13]

I understand your hesitance on space heaters...but maybe try one of those ones that has a bit of oil in it and heats slowly...they have no fans etc...apologies that I don't know exactly how they are called but they sort look like old style room radiators on wheels...we use one in our house here in vermont in a room that doesn't get enough heat and it really helps...and they don't get hot enough to burn a child...just put out a slow steady area heat and as far as I know are fairly immune from accidents that might involve a young kid...

Welp, you might be at the point where you're getting more input than you can handle, but I agree with all night lotus party.. I used to have your exact same problem. Our house has been renovated here and there, but my daughter's room has always been colder and draftier than the other rooms, in spite of new windows--I suspect there's little insulation in her walls.We have big 1" baseboard copper pipes and everything heats up quickly (except for her room), but it made no sense to jack up the heat for the whole upstairs at night just to keep her room warm. I bought one of the Delonghi space heaters that Cash is talking about. It uses little electricity, keeps the room nice and warm, and has worked great. It needs some space and I kept an eye on it to make sure she didn't pile stuff up around it inadvertently, etc.

This specific kind of heater was an easy solution to my problem. Granted, I have baseboard heating but we do have central AC as well, and there are some rooms that just don't get very cool due to the duct routing--some rooms are farther from the action and I don't see any solution to that (unless there's an obvious blockage, etc.).

[Dave]

I'm not an HVAC expert, but nobody has mentioned the role or importance of the return vents that allow circulation through the system. Forced air in but no escape makes for a very inefficient system with cold rooms. People often park furniture against or near the returns thinking that's no big deal since they're not "heating" vents. Make sure that the return vents 1) exist in the cold rooms and 2) are not blocked by furniture or dust bunnies. If they're old and gross with dust restricting airflow, vent covers are often more easily replaced than cleaned

I had a new spec home in 2003 that had bedrooms with no returns, mainly due to the open design that left no walls, except exterior walls to run ducts down to the furnace in the basement. Some upstairs room had supply air ducts routed through exterior walls, so one space between studs had little insulation.

When I built my retirement home and acted as the GC in 2011, I made sure that all rooms had return vents. I also have R26 insulated walls and R60 ceiling insulation. This house has twice the square footage, and a heated & cooled 1800 square foot shop, but costs less to heat and cool than the 2003 spec home.

[NHAero]

Yes.
That's why it's important to measure the air delivered to the room, and if it's not as expected, look for the reason. Often there is just a central return grille, or one on each level of the house, and if a room has the door closed the supply flow to that room drops as the room is pressurized by the air trying to find a path back to the return. If that is the problem, we often recommend installing some form of transfer grille. Here's one:
https://www.tamtech.com/product-category/transfer-grilles-rap/

I'm not an HVAC expert, but nobody has mentioned the role or importance of the return vents that allow circulation through the system. Forced air in but no escape makes for a very inefficient system with cold rooms. People often park furniture against or near the returns thinking that's no big deal since they're not "heating" vents. Make sure that the return vents 1) exist in the cold rooms and 2) are not blocked by furniture or dust bunnies. If they're old and gross with dust restricting airflow, vent covers are often more easily replaced than cleaned

[xeladragon]

Yes.
That's why it's important to measure the air delivered to the room, and if it's not as expected, look for the reason. Often there is just a central return grille, or one on each level of the house, and if a room has the door closed the supply flow to that room drops as the room is pressurized by the air trying to find a path back to the return. If that is the problem, we often recommend installing some form of transfer grille. Here's one:
https://www.tamtech.com/product-category/transfer-grilles-rap/

My daughter's room has a return vent, but it's behind the door. So we mostly close the door at night (but not all the way), both to unblock the return vent and to minimize noise.

If there were a space heater that was guaranteed 100% to not be a potential fire hazard, I'd get one, but I don't think such a thing exists.

As for it being OK to close vents/registers for heating (but less so for A/C), I've never heard of that before. Is that true?

[Dave B]

While not terribly cheap, we use a Dyson heater/chiller/air filter fan. It can run at varying degrees, works quickly and you can track usage and filter life as well as air quality from your phone.

We have the tall one and it works pretty darn well, also has a remote.



https://www.dyson.com/purifiers/dyson-pure-cool-link-overview.html

[Dave]

If there were a space heater that was guaranteed 100% to not be a potential fire hazard, I'd get one, but I don't think such a thing exists.

As for it being OK to close vents/registers for heating (but less so for A/C), I've never heard of that before. Is that true?

My 91 year old mother in law who lives in my home wants a higher temp in the winter than we do, so she uses an electric heater at times. No problems after 7 years. Modern units will turn off if tipped over.

Most modern furnaces have a multi-speed fan with at least 3 speeds, so they use the higher speeds for A/C. I've got a top of the line Carrier with more speeds. It runs at a low speed for heating, but will ramp up the speed if the temperature is not increasing fast enough. Same for cooling, if the temperature is not decreasing fast enough, a higher speed is used.

Most of the fans in home furnaces have forward curved blades that are only good for low pressures. I can't see why closing off vents while cooling would cause any more problems, just because the fan is running at a higher speed. Fans and pumps follow affinity laws that govern the pressure and flow, relative to fan speed. Flow increases proportionally to the motor speed, pressure increases to the square of the speed and horsepower required increases to the cube of the speed.

[paredown]

My daughter's room has a return vent, but it's behind the door. So we mostly close the door at night (but not all the way), both to unblock the return vent and to minimize noise.

If there were a space heater that was guaranteed 100% to not be a potential fire hazard, I'd get one, but I don't think such a thing exists.

As for it being OK to close vents/registers for heating (but less so for A/C), I've never heard of that before. Is that true?

We use those oil-filled heaters made by de Longhi for warming rooms (like the one my MIL stays in when she visits).

They are pretty effective, and quiet enough for a bedroom, since there are no fans. Also safe--we've had years of service with no problems.

I see they are sized now, and some come with remotes:
https://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-TRD40615T-Full-Radiant-Heater/dp/B00FT5VAWI/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2NRYTSZD2YN5X&keywords=delonghi+oil+filled+radiator&qid=1570734307&sprefix=delonghi+oi%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-5

[Hilltopperny]

My wife and I use an electric space heater on cold winter nights. There are no registers in the upstairs for forced hot air, but I insulated the crap out of the upstairs when I built it up. No issues with overheating or any potential fire hazards and it is just a cheaper model from Lowes.

Sent from my LGL423DL using Tapatalk

[GregL]

Have you considered an electric blanket for her bed? My daughter's room is (a) over our unheated garage and (b) heated by the longest duct from our furnace. Even with a booster fan in the duct, her room is always the coolest in our house. We bought her an electric blanket and she's been comfortably warm ever since.

Greg

[xeladragon]

Have you considered an electric blanket for her bed? My daughter's room is (a) over our unheated garage and (b) heated by the longest duct from our furnace. Even with a booster fan in the duct, her room is always the coolest in our house. We bought her an electric blanket and she's been comfortably warm ever since.

Greg

My 2-yr old daughter hasn't figured out how to use a blanket yet. :) We tuck her in at bedtime, but the blanket is kicked off within an hour. This won't be a problem (we hope) as she gets older but... for now... can't rely on a blanket.

Also, I understand today's space heaters are pretty safe, have built-in safety features, etc. Still... if there's a 0.1% chance of a fire, that's a risk that's not worth taking IMO.

And I'm not sure if I have a single- or multi-stage furnace. I should figure that out.

[cderalow]

Hmm... interesting. I think I can do that with Nest as well. I'll have to double check.

Nest does have the auto-run feature, its in the thermostat settings under fan schedule.

My daughter's room has a return vent, but it's behind the door. So we mostly close the door at night (but not all the way), both to unblock the return vent and to minimize noise.

If there were a space heater that was guaranteed 100% to not be a potential fire hazard, I'd get one, but I don't think such a thing exists.

As for it being OK to close vents/registers for heating (but less so for A/C), I've never heard of that before. Is that true?

the Dyson Hot+Cool link doesn't get hot enough to start a fire, filters air.

I've got one in my 200sf bedroom and it works great when its cold.

[xeladragon]

Nest does have the auto-run feature, its in the thermostat settings under fan schedule.



the Dyson Hot+Cool link doesn't get hot enough to start a fire, filters air.

I've got one in my 200sf bedroom and it works great when its cold.

Yep, I enabled the fan last night. Not sure if it helped? Maybe? Still saw the same temp difference in the morning between my room and hers.

And I was just looking at the Dyson Hot+Cool online. Awfully expensive but... it's an option!

[Louis]

My 2-yr old daughter hasn't figured out how to use a blanket yet. :) We tuck her in at bedtime, but the blanket is kicked off within an hour. This won't be a problem (we hope) as she gets older but... for now... can't rely on a blanket.

They also make "sleep on top of it" electric blankets. That type can't be kicked off because it's under the fitted sheet.

https://www.thesleepjudge.com/electric-blanket-under-or-over/

[xeladragon]

So I was at Costco the other day and they had a $100 instant rebate on the Dyson Hot+Cool heater thing that Dave B mentioned above. So I bought it. It has a night-time mode, so must be safe for running at night, right? Plus it doesn't get hot, won some Parent Tested Parent Approved (PTPA) award, etc. So far, so good. Definitely not the cheapest option, but not having to worry about my daughter being cold at night is worth the investment.