New tire irons or go tubeless?

[tuxbailey]

So, I have the DT RR440 wheels with Records hubs. I like the wheel and the hub. However, it is very difficult to mount tires and I have ruined tubes couple times when trying to mount tires.

I also think that the tire irons I use contribute to the problem since it is just the generic plastic ones from performance, but those work fine on other wheels (e.g. Mavic.)

Should I get thinner tire irons (pedro's, or metal?) The wheels are tubeless compatible/ready. Should I go for tubeless or that will just bring up different kind of issues?

[R3awak3n]

So, I have the DT RR440 wheels with Records hubs. I like the wheel and the hub. However, it is very difficult to mount tires and I have ruined tubes couple times when trying to mount tires.

I also think that the tire irons I use contribute to the problem since it is just the generic plastic ones from performance, but those work fine on other wheels (e.g. Mavic.)

Should I get thinner tire irons (pedro's, or metal?) The wheels are tubeless compatible/ready. Should I go for tubeless or that will just bring up different kind of issues?

definitely DO NOT go metal. Pedros tire levers are THE BEST. Also you should just get one of these -

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire-Bead-Jack/dp/B001AYML7K


New tubeless wheels and tubeless tires (even if not run tubeless) have started getting harder and harder to put on. The good thing is that after a few hundred miles on the rim, they will stretch and will be easier to take off if you flat. Tubeless is great and will delay flats for sure so maybe a good time to try it.

[charliedid]

It's all technique and yes, get Pedros levers. Make sure the tire (both beads) are in the well when mounting or taking off.

Since you mention levers I assume the issue is removing the tire?

You can do this...

[eddief]

maybe not thinner but more leverage once you are under the bead. once i get the lever under the bead i like to try to slide the lever around the rim to get the rest of the bead off the rim. my old hands have a hard time getting the needed leverage with normal short levers. with these ones i can grab the lever with my whole hand and apply more downward force when sliding the bead off the rim:

https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-tools-and-maintenance/lezyne-power-lever-xl-tyre-levers/11423607.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=USD&shippingcountry=US&variation=11423609&shoppingpid=spend_and_save_v2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwivbsBRDsARIsADyISJ8dUmJB6daLFmIq7_Hw rapQYXDhNBeJDfnGNqXv9LRc5v-AeWGpsKkaAj_oEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[madsciencenow]

What kind of tubeless tape? I had a pair of these that others complained about and I switched the rim tape to Stans and the problem seemed to disappear.


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[mktng]

id say. give tubeless a shot !

[charliedid]

I just re-read the post. If you are using lever to mount you are doing it wrong. As noted if you can't get it with technique (some are almost impossible) buy the suggested Tire Jack.

[tuxbailey]

I just re-read the post. If you are using lever to mount you are doing it wrong. As noted if you can't get it with technique (some are almost impossible) buy the suggested Tire Jack.

With the Mavic wheels I can mount without levers. But with the RR440 wheels I have to use levers and even that is a real struggle.

I will have one side of the beads in the well, the push the other side in until about 8" of beads left. And the rest of the beads become a tight, straight line across the top of the rim. At this point I have to insert the lever under the bead and then hook side down on the rim. Then I use the lever to jack the rest of bead over... if i don't don't do it carefully it ends up ruining the inner tube, likely because I hooked on it.

[arimajol]

I've got the same rims, and yes they are a beast to get tires on. I've got the jack contraption and it is very, very helpful.

[DeBike]

Steel core tire levers work well. Kool Stop bead jack is a big help for any hard to mount tires.

[jtakeda]

With the Mavic wheels I can mount without levers. But with the RR440 wheels I have to use levers and even that is a real struggle.

I will have one side of the beads in the well, the push the other side in until about 8" of beads left. And the rest of the beads become a tight, straight line across the top of the rim. At this point I have to insert the lever under the bead and then hook side down on the rim. Then I use the lever to jack the rest of bead over... if i don't don't do it carefully it ends up ruining the inner tube, likely because I hooked on it.

Try this.

You have 1 side all the in the center well. After you’ve mounted half of side 2. Push that side into the center well also. It should give you just enough to mount everything and pump up. watch both sides snap into place.

If that doesn’t work try less or thinner tubeless tape as your rim strip

[godfrey1112000]

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/silca-premio-tire-levers?v=carbonl

Seemed to do the trick,

Yes after a few miles, 6000 they came off much easier than the first flat

But my DT’s have always been tight with continentals



definitely DO NOT go metal. Pedros tire levers are THE BEST. Also you should just get one of these -

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire-Bead-Jack/dp/B001AYML7K


New tubeless wheels and tubeless tires (even if not run tubeless) have started getting harder and harder to put on. The good thing is that after a few hundred miles on the rim, they will stretch and will be easier to take off if you flat. Tubeless is great and will delay flats for sure so maybe a good time to try it.

[unterhausen]

I agree about Stan's rim tape. Run two layers and you'll be ready for tubeless.

The other trick for mounting a tight tire is to start putting the second bead on the opposite side of the wheel from the valve stem and work towards the valve stem. Put both beads in the well and pull any slack towards the valve stem as you go. The valve stem takes up some of the slack, so you want to pop the tire over the rim there.

[p nut]

I've had some tough ones. Current Pacenti rims, mounting tires is a chore at times. I've had to change tubes once out in the field. Fortunately, the bead had stretched enough to (barely) get it done. I am thinking the tire heating up also helped. When I have a super stubborn tire to deal with, I soak it in hot water for a few minutes and it goes on without a hitch.

I used Pedro's. I also had Park Tools, which has worked well.

But for real tough tires, I use Pedro's Downhill lever. Works really well. I've tried Kool Stop, but hasn't worked that well for me.
https://www.cycle-basar.de/Zubehoer/Werkzeug/Werkstattbedarf/Werkzeug-Allgemein/[https://www.cycle-basar.de/out/pictures/generated/product/1/318_318_80/rs3389_6400025.jpg

But tubeless or not, you still will have to get the tire off if you get a flat/sidewall gash/etc. So be prepped for that.

[Jaybee]

A little soapy water or furniture polish can serve as a lubricant to help that bead slide up and over the edge also. Bonus: it will also help you find the micro leaks in your system.

[charliedid]

With the Mavic wheels I can mount without levers. But with the RR440 wheels I have to use levers and even that is a real struggle.

I will have one side of the beads in the well, the push the other side in until about 8" of beads left. And the rest of the beads become a tight, straight line across the top of the rim. At this point I have to insert the lever under the bead and then hook side down on the rim. Then I use the lever to jack the rest of bead over... if i don't don't do it carefully it ends up ruining the inner tube, likely because I hooked on it.



I feel for you.
Some are just a bear. I don’t want to sound pedantic but you’re putting a bit of air in the tube right? Kept it all in the well until the end.

It’s worse when you work in a shop and a customer watches you struggle [emoji2957]


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[tuxbailey]

I feel for you.
Some are just a bear. I don’t want to sound pedantic but you’re putting a bit of air in the tube right? Kept it all in the well until the end.

It’s worse when you work in a shop and a customer watches you struggle [emoji2957]


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yeah I have a little air so the tube holds the shape.

[tuxbailey]

I think I am going order a set of Pedro's and then also the tire jack for a shot. Hopefully the jack is portable enough to take it on the road.

My fear is that I will ruin my spare tube on the road when I get a flat.

[tuxbailey]

definitely DO NOT go metal. Pedros tire levers are THE BEST. Also you should just get one of these -

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire-Bead-Jack/dp/B001AYML7K


New tubeless wheels and tubeless tires (even if not run tubeless) have started getting harder and harder to put on. The good thing is that after a few hundred miles on the rim, they will stretch and will be easier to take off if you flat. Tubeless is great and will delay flats for sure so maybe a good time to try it.

The tool does look awesome. My concern is that it seems kind of large to take it with you on the road.

[dustyrider]

I have 440s and the vittoria corsa tires I ride are a dream to setup. They're also an amazing ride.

[R3awak3n]

The tool does look awesome. My concern is that it seems kind of large to take it with you on the road.

that tool is just to get em on, then you leave it at home. Like I mentioned, as the tire stretches they will be easy to take out and install with just a lever. I have had tires that were SO hard to put on (gravel king SK, looking at you) and used the jack to get the tire on, many miles later got a flat and they were removed and installed just fine.

[makoti]

Tubeless won't help the mounting issues. The suggestions of a tire jack & soaping the bead will. And, of course, make sure the bead of the side already on the rim is in the center channel of the rim. That will help a lot.

[Elefantino]

Pedro's levers are great but they break, too. Have snapped many in the shop, a sound accompanied by much cursing.

Crank Bros. Speed Lever is about as good as it gets for mounting difficult rubber. Haven't tried the newer "Speedier" lever.

Throwing tires in the dryer (inside an old pillow case) usually works for me on tough clinchers.

[cash05458]

another vote for the bead jack...works great..

[R3awak3n]

another vote for the bead jack...works great..

once you get one, you will wonder why took you so long to buy one.

[cash05458]

once you get one, you will wonder why took you so long to buy one.

yep...totally simple idea and just works...cheap...one of my favorite tool buys over last ten years...your fingers will thank you kindly!

[Gummee]

yep...totally simple idea and just works...cheap...one of my favorite tool buys over last ten years...your fingers will thank you kindly!

If you're using your fingers or your thumbs, you're using the weakest part of the hand. Use the fatty part of the palm where the finger join and roll the bead over using your palms.

Tubeless rims? ALWAYS start opposite the valve and work towards it. Do it that way and you'll rarely have problems.

New parts = new techniques

M

[cash05458]

yeah thanks Poindexter...you would have thought after 35 years of riding and doing my own wrenching I might have figured that out by now...go figure...was just saying the tool works well bud...

[R3awak3n]

If you're using your fingers or your thumbs, you're using the weakest part of the hand. Use the fatty part of the palm where the finger join and roll the bead over using your palms.

Tubeless rims? ALWAYS start opposite the valve and work towards it. Do it that way and you'll rarely have problems.

New parts = new techniques

M

there are some tires that will just NOT go in, no matter what part of your body you are using. We had these tires that not even the first bead would go on, let alone the second bead. It was so tight... the jack made it work, it was still very hard work but I don't think it would have been possible without the damn tool.

[jtbadge]

The Speedier Lever is the only Crank Brothers part worth the money.

[Gummee]

there are some tires that will just NOT go in, no matter what part of your body you are using. We had these tires that not even the first bead would go on, let alone the second bead. It was so tight... the jack made it work, it was still very hard work but I don't think it would have been possible without the damn tool.

It's a rare day when I need to break out the Bead Jack.

Make sure the beads are deep in the channel and it'll usually go on with little problem

Forget that 'bead deep in the channel' part and you'll struggle every time.

AMHIK

M

[charliedid]

The Speedier Lever is the only Crank Brothers part worth the money.

word

[charliedid]

And then there are wheelchair tires. Criminal...

[makoti]

The Speedier Lever is the only Crank Brothers part worth the money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbO_03rKyPk

Is it as easy as this guy makes it look? I'd never heard of this tool

[Clancy]

definitely DO NOT go metal. Pedros tire levers are THE BEST. Also you should just get one of these -

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire-Bead-Jack/dp/B001AYML7K


New tubeless wheels and tubeless tires (even if not run tubeless) have started getting harder and harder to put on. The good thing is that after a few hundred miles on the rim, they will stretch and will be easier to take off if you flat. Tubeless is great and will delay flats for sure so maybe a good time to try it.

Please expand on the tire jack.... I’ve got to admit, never seen one. I’ve used a wood clamp, awkwardly, to break beads. When tubeless tires get “glued-on” the rim, it’s a pain the break the bead to get the tire lever under. This looks useful.

Can’t believe I’m not aware of these.

Must have or fiddly gimmick?

[speedevil]

Steel core tire levers work well. Kool Stop bead jack is a big help for any hard to mount tires.

The Kool Stop Bead Jack is great for installing tight-fitting tires.

Is there such a thing as a Kool Stop Bead Jack Off?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[charliedid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbO_03rKyPk

Is it as easy as this guy makes it look? I'd never heard of this tool

They work just fine in theory. The problem I found is that especially new tire with sticky rubber have so much friction it makes the tool grab and stick. And that is a recipe for some serious knuckle banging. Older tires seem easier with it.

Hey whatever works.

[eddief]

and found the ergonomics of gripping it to apply the right amount of leverage to be less than it could should be. the handle shape is really uncomfortable. should be round like a screw driver handle but isn't.

This VAR tire system tool is smaller than the bead jack, less leverage, but fits in a small saddle bag.

https://www.amazon.com/VAR-Nylon-Tire-Lever-System/dp/B004YJ30M8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OF2t2LJ6Tw

QUOTE=makoti;2604821]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbO_03rKyPk

Is it as easy as this guy makes it look? I'd never heard of this tool[/QUOTE]

[Clancy]

The Kool Stop Bead Jack is great for installing tight-fitting tires.

Is there such a thing as a Kool Stop Bead Jack Off?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Obviously I thought this tool was a bead breaker. Good set up though!

[R3awak3n]

Please expand on the tire jack.... I’ve got to admit, never seen one. I’ve used a wood clamp, awkwardly, to break beads. When tubeless tires get “glued-on” the rim, it’s a pain the break the bead to get the tire lever under. This looks useful.

Can’t believe I’m not aware of these.

Must have or fiddly gimmick?

for me must have. I mean, I went years without it and then used it on this super stubborn tire, as in, no tire jack, that tire was just not going to go in. Then I thought, its just this tire/rim combo but even on easier ones, why not just use this thing and have the easiest time of my life putting tires on so now I use it every time I am mounting a tire (ok, if the tire is old and has been super stretched I just use my hands).



3 bike things I swear by. Tire jack, garmin varia and a frame pump.

[eddief]

I have a friend who uses CO2 to inflate on the road. So he took a behind the bottle cage mini pump bracket and tweaked the bracket to hold the handle of the tire jack. Next time I ride with him I will check how he tweaked it to work. My first flat on my Roubaix he was right behind me. We needed his extra CO2, and the jack to get me going again.

for me must have. I mean, I went years without it and then used it on this super stubborn tire, as in, no tire jack, that tire was just not going to go in. Then I thought, its just this tire/rim combo but even on easier ones, why not just use this thing and have the easiest time of my life putting tires on so now I use it every time I am mounting a tire (ok, if the tire is old and has been super stretched I just use my hands).



3 bike things I swear by. Tire jack, garmin varia and a frame pump.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Bead jack tool is excellent for mounting. Must have for the workshop. There are some that just no matter the technique are a combination that is really tough.

I had a couple customers at my old shop who had them mounted to their behind the saddle bottle cages by drilling hole(s) in them.


I just grabbed a pair of the Silca levers a couple weeks ago, but haven't had much time using them yet. They seemed like they had a reasonable amount of leverage offered while being pretty strong. Not as chonky as the Pedro's levers, so maybe easier to squeeze in the second lever when the fit is super tight?