Pretty Impressed with ENVE Lifetime Incident Protection

[damocles]

Riding along yesterday, minding my own business, when I get what appears to be a garden variety flat. I'm on tubeless and it's leaking hard, so I spin the flat to 6 o'clock in the hope that it will seal. I wait 30 seconds or so, but the tire it completely flat. So I look down and see the mother of all nails, not just through my tire, but also through the entire ENVE G23 carbon rim. Brutal...

My immediate thought was this was going to be an expensive rim replacement. On my Uber ride home though, it occurred to me to Google "ENVE crash replacement" to see what they offer.

It turns out they have lifetime incident protection for stuff like this for the original owner. This certainly didn't factor into my buying decision, but they really have bought a ton of loyalty from me now.

https://www.enve.com/en/support/warranty/

By the afternoon after my ride, they had already sent me a prepaid UPS shipping label to send them the wheel back. My original hub should be returned to me with a brand new rim within a couple of weeks.

Thought the Paceline might like to hear and see the firsthand details of this.

Thanks ENVE :)

[AngryScientist]

that is spectacular!

very impressive indeed. thanks for the positive vibes.

[Veloo]

Yikes!

[chiasticon]

Enve nailed that customer service interaction :banana:

[RobJ]

Always nice to hear good customer service stories. And Enve since this did factor into my purchase of a new set from them.


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[simonov]

As someone about to take a leap on those wheels, but having second thoughts about carbon for rough roads, this is awesome news. I had no idea, but will now sleep well knowing that if I get stupid and break a rim, they'll help me out. And, ouch, that's a big a** nail.

[damocles]

As someone about to take a leap on those wheels, but having second thoughts about carbon for rough roads, this is awesome news. I had no idea, but will now sleep well knowing that if I get stupid and break a rim, they'll help me out. And, ouch, that's a big a** nail.

Oh, I guess I should have mentioned this happened on pavement too... One of those crazy things I guess no wheel would have survived.

[madsciencenow]

So here’s a question. I agree that the warranty and customer service provided here by enve is really great. My question is, if this were a set of Belgium rims would the rim have a nail through it? I’m asking because I’m trying to assess the price to value ratio of carbon rims and in particular CF hoop makers with this type of warranty. I recognize value is somewhat subjective. My way of thinking about it is that the cost for CF is around 2-3x or more than an Al rim. I recognize there are many other reasons to buy CF rims beyond value. Just wanted to get some thoughts from the peanut gallery. In addition, if this is too much of a tangent I can repost.


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[damocles]

So here’s a question. I agree that the warranty and customer service provided here by enve is really great. My question is, if this were a set of Belgium rims would the rim have a nail through it? I’m asking because I’m trying to assess the price to value ratio of carbon rims and in particular CF hoop makers with this type of warranty. I recognize value is somewhat subjective. My way of thinking about it is that the cost for CF is around 2-3x or more than an Al rim. I recognize there are many other reasons to buy CF rims beyond value. Just wanted to get some thoughts from the peanut gallery. In addition, if this is too much of a tangent I can repost.


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Hey there Mad Cow... I've still got the nail. Shoot me a Belgium hoop and I'll let ya know :)

Kidding aside, I'm guessing that nail would have gone through any rim, regardless of material. I'm was humming along at about 40km per hour and it went in so easily it just seemed like a normal flat.

I think the question you're asking here though is it better to buy a $3,000 carbon wheelset built with $1,000 rims (which gives you this awesome lifetime warranty) or to buy a $1,000 aluminum wheelset built with $200 rims (with no similar warranty).

My answer would be it doesn't matter from the perspective of this incident.

If I had alu rims and had to spend a few hundy to get a wheel rebuilt with a new rim, I'd be bummed, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I am very thankful though that after spending $3,000 on this ENVE wheelset less than a year ago, I won't be out of a pocket a nickel to be rolling again on them in a couple of weeks.

Just my $0.02 though.

[smead]

Sure a nail like that would put a hole in an alum rim, the difference is that the rim would be perfectly usable after that (with a tube of course). Had the same thing happen and put thousands of miles on the rim thereafter ..

[pdonk]

Based on my recent experience (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=239591) and the offer I received from HED, I would suggest they would probably help you out somehow if a nail punctured your rim.

I was offered 45% off the price of a new rim/spokes and labour to relace a rim that that failed as part of their crash replacement program.

I chose not to and went with a local builder due to the length of time it was going to take to send to HED, have them relace and send back - likely 4-6 weeks. This would probably be cut down to 2-3 weeks for US customers.

[Ttx1]

I hit a similar nail with my G23s earlier this summer, and enjoyed my first flat in at least two years. Amazingly, the nail did not puncture the rim - only the tire. Sealant couldn't do the job - Had to insert a tube, but was back in business in 5 minutes.

FWIW, it does seem like there has been a spike in Enve loyalty lately. Enve's M and G series rims have been a staple on my bikes.

Everyone should take a tip from this post and hammer the "buy now" button for some Enve rims.

You get the point.

[AngryScientist]

I've seen photos just like this posted on the 'net before, and i always feel like this has to be 1 in a million bad luck, but apparently it does happen.

i'm trying to wrap my mind around just how the nail winds up going straight through rubber and straight into the rim. i mean - if you wanted to intentionally set this up to happen it would be terribly difficult!

amazing.

[bshell]

Same thing happened to me with a rear HED Belgium+ but I just pulled the nail and filed down the exit hole. Had to redo the tubeless tape but rode it for several more years.

Enve's replacement plan must have improved GENEROUSLY. Two years ago they charged me $900.00 to replace/rebuild my 3.4's that were damaged in a crash. Hubs were fine and I was happy to save @ 50% off rim retail at the time. Wish that crash had been a little later.

[rigged]

I had a similar but not as happy experience with a set of Roval CLX 40 Wheels on my S-Works Epic (2016) recently. When I took my bike in to my LBS, they pointed out a crack in my rear wheel. Somehow I never noticed and can only guess it was caused by a pothole. The bike has very low mileage but I guess that does not matter for the warranty. Roval offered a crash replacement warranty, 20% off.

Unfortunately these rims are no longer available and a new set of CLX 50 rims were out of stock. So, they offered 20% off a set of CLX 32 rims which retail for $2,500 CAD. The Roval site warranty says, "If you damage your Roval product while riding more than two years after you bought it and it’s not covered under warranty, your Roval retailer will work with us to get it repaired or replaced for a fraction of the full retail price." Don't want to sound ungrateful but 20% off is not a fraction of the price.

Caveat Emptor

[damocles]

I had a similar but not as happy experience with a set of Roval CLX 40 Wheels on my S-Works Epic (2016) recently. When I took my bike in to my LBS, they pointed out a crack in my rear wheel. Somehow I never noticed and can only guess it was caused by a pothole. The bike has very low mileage but I guess that does not matter for the warranty. Roval offered a crash replacement warranty, 20% off.

Unfortunately these rims are no longer available and a new set of CLX 50 rims were out of stock. So, they offered 20% off a set of CLX 32 rims which retail for $2,500 CAD. The Roval site warranty says, "If you damage your Roval product while riding more than two years after you bought it and it’s not covered under warranty, your Roval retailer will work with us to get it repaired or replaced for a fraction of the full retail price." Don't want to sound ungrateful but 20% off is not a fraction of the price.

Caveat Emptor

Yikes, that's a bummer for sure. I don't think many of us would think that 8/10's was the fraction they meant. At that price, both the manufacturer and LBS would be making a profit of your misfortune. Sounds well off most run of the mill crash replacement programs.

[uber]

That is some great information about the Roval wheels. Thanks.
I have been able to destroy most brands of carbon wheels including Zip, Reynolds, Corima, and I just cannot destroy Enve's. Seems like they are the one brand you would least need a warranty for. Except if you drive a nail through them.

[simonov]

I think it's less about whether to choose carbon or aluminum based on this type of incident coverage and more about peace of mind if choosing carbon for other reasons.

[Mark McM]

I've seen photos just like this posted on the 'net before, and i always feel like this has to be 1 in a million bad luck, but apparently it does happen.

i'm trying to wrap my mind around just how the nail winds up going straight through rubber and straight into the rim. i mean - if you wanted to intentionally set this up to happen it would be terribly difficult!

Well, it is a low probability occurrence, but I think you'll find that this mostly happens on rear wheels. Every once in a while, the front wheel hits a nail/screw/staple/etc. just right to cause it to flip, and the rear tire hits at just the right moment as it is pointing straight up. I've had this happen to me, and in my case, the tire didn't even lose air (or at least, it was losing air slowly). The main indication was the 'thump' I experienced once per revolution. When I looked at the tire, everything looked normal at first, until I saw the nail head flush with the tread. Looking at the other side of the rim, I saw the nail point protruding out of the spoke bed. Like with the others, I just replace the tube and rim strip and kept using the wheel for thousands of more miles.

[earlfoss]

Last spring I was riding with a friend in the Santa Monica area and a nail did the same job to his rear. It was pretty impressive to think about the physics and statistics involved in making this happen. So weird.

Enve's new warranty policy definitely swayed my decision to purchase some AR wheels. For what they charge, this policy would at worst represent a small rounding error in their budget and does a ton for customer loyalty. A definite win for them and the buyers.

[rigged]

Yikes, that's a bummer for sure. I don't think many of us would think that 8/10's was the fraction they meant. At that price, both the manufacturer and LBS would be making a profit of your misfortune. Sounds well off most run of the mill crash replacement programs.

Thanks for the sympathy damocles. After working myself up into a lather after writing this post I called Roval to complain, and they said that at the time I purchased the bike their warranty policy was 20% off for crash replacement, and since July 2018 the warranty changed so they would send the owner a new rim. Yes, profits were made off my misfortune. Nothing more I can do other than watch out for the damn potholes. :-)

[muz]

Well, it is a low probability occurrence, but I think you'll find that this mostly happens on rear wheels. Every once in a while, the front wheel hits a nail/screw/staple/etc. just right to cause it to flip, and the rear tire hits at just the right moment as it is pointing straight up. I've had this happen to me, and in my case, the tire didn't even lose air (or at least, it was losing air slowly). The main indication was the 'thump' I experienced once per revolution. When I looked at the tire, everything looked normal at first, until I saw the nail head flush with the tread. Looking at the other side of the rim, I saw the nail point protruding out of the spoke bed. Like with the others, I just replace the tube and rim strip and kept using the wheel for thousands of more miles.

Yes, the same exact thing happened to me with an aluminum rim (rear). Hardest part was getting the nail out, and I was rolling 20 minutes later.

[Clean39T]

Some good deals on ENVE wheels here: https://mybikeshop.com/wheels/?_bc_fsnf=1&brand[]=62

[rigged]

Some good deals on ENVE wheels here: https://mybikeshop.com/wheels/?_bc_fsnf=1&brand[]=62

Nice deals! Wish I had seen this thread last week.

[smwillis]

Wow I am impressed

[weaponsgrade]

I had a similar but not as happy experience with a set of Roval CLX 40 Wheels on my S-Works Epic (2016) recently. When I took my bike in to my LBS, they pointed out a crack in my rear wheel. Somehow I never noticed and can only guess it was caused by a pothole. The bike has very low mileage but I guess that does not matter for the warranty. Roval offered a crash replacement warranty, 20% off.

Unfortunately these rims are no longer available and a new set of CLX 50 rims were out of stock. So, they offered 20% off a set of CLX 32 rims which retail for $2,500 CAD. The Roval site warranty says, "If you damage your Roval product while riding more than two years after you bought it and it’s not covered under warranty, your Roval retailer will work with us to get it repaired or replaced for a fraction of the full retail price." Don't want to sound ungrateful but 20% off is not a fraction of the price.

Caveat Emptor

I feel your pain. I had a similar thing happen to me with my Zipps and the offer from Zipp was 20% off retail.

[beeatnik]

Yes, the same exact thing happened to me with an aluminum rim (rear). Hardest part was getting the nail out, and I was rolling 20 minutes later.

Still using this rim. Not the tire.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8137/28281616313_2abb27c962_o.jpg


https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8411/28949078556_8f54f3ae57_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8239/29080165112_f869bce64b_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8486/29080164032_47296c0bc1_o.jpg

[damocles]

As the OP, I thought I'd update this thread with the final timeline and outcome from ENVE...

Oct 7 - Nail in wheel
Oct 8 - ENVE sends me prepaid UPS label and I ship the wheel from CA to Utah
Oct 11 - ENVE confirms via email they have the wheel and it's in their work queue
Oct 14 - ENVE ships wheel back to me on 2 day UPS service and provides tracking number
Oct 16 - UPS should be delivering the wheel back to me

7 business day turnaround including shipping.

ENVE covered 100% of the costs, including UPS shipping both directions.

[andybones78]

That is ridiculously good service - and is almost certainly going to be the deciding factor for me on an upcoming wheel purchase. Until reading this thread I was unsure about the exact situation with the "lifetime" warranty that some manufacturers offer, and indeed whether the sometimes 50% increase in cost from one middle of the road brand to the high end main players was justified - but I see that your experience here completely ticks that box. Kudos to them for having such a great policy, after all - no matter how much you spend on a wheel set there's no guaranteeing when you're going to have the misfortune of a nail or sharp object like that finding it's way into your carbon!?!

[Tickdoc]

As the OP, I thought I'd update this thread with the final timeline and outcome from ENVE...

Oct 7 - Nail in wheel
Oct 8 - ENVE sends me prepaid UPS label and I ship the wheel from CA to Utah
Oct 11 - ENVE confirms via email they have the wheel and it's in their work queue
Oct 14 - ENVE ships wheel back to me on 2 day UPS service and provides tracking number
Oct 16 - UPS should be delivering the wheel back to me

7 business day turnaround including shipping.

ENVE covered 100% of the costs, including UPS shipping both directions.

Man that's great. I can't even get them to email me back on my 3.4's that won't hold a bead. They were my favorite wheels until I got stuck on the side of the road too many times. I purchased them new and would love some sort of replacement/upgrade option. Maybe I need to lay a trap with some nails and screws in the road?

[damocles]

Man that's great. I can't even get them to email me back on my 3.4's that won't hold a bead. They were my favorite wheels until I got stuck on the side of the road too many times. I purchased them new and would love some sort of replacement/upgrade option. Maybe I need to lay a trap with some nails and screws in the road?

Highly suggest you pick up the phone and give them a call. That's how I initiated all of this the day of the nail... I suspect I jumped to the top of the queue that way somehow. Sorry about that :)

[vincenz]

Was pretty close to going for a set of ENVEs after hearing about their new warranty policy earlier this summer. Ended up not doing it, but I may if I decide I want a new pair of carbon wheels sometime. Glad to see the warranty works as advertised.