Am I crazy? Frame modifications

[scopes]

Wondering if the forum can help me out with a decision I'm thinking of..

I have a custom Sycip that I love, bought locally from the original owner, and it fits me like a glove. True Temper OX Platinum main triangle, Versus rear.

Bike is equipped wonderfully for my wants/needs with:
2x10 XTR/Ultegra shifting
TRP 8.4 brakes
White Industries cranks
White Industries to Mavic open pro wheelset
WTB Nano 40mm rubber
SKF square taper bb
nice finishing bits etc.

Now my conundrum:
I'd like to be able to run fenders on this bike and have it be a year round road/gravel/monster cross bike which would compliment my summertime nice weather dedicated road bike. If I could dial it perfectly, I could even see me getting rid of the full time road bike (Litespeed T1) as I am riding it less and this more.

As such, I'd have to drop to about a 32-35c tire to fit fenders under the straddle cable on the TRP 8.4 brakes. Short of switching to Paul Motolites I dont think there is a better clearance v-brake and I'd rather avoid cantilever brakes.

Riding in the PNW it rains, a lot. It's hilly where I live, and I ride this bike like a mountain bike whenever I can, so disc brakes would be really nice. Pucker factor is there when it's real wet.

I can get disc tabs welded on for ~$120 and I have a DT350 to Pacenti disc wheelset that I could convert to QR with minimal investment to run on this bike.

Would need to get some disc brakes (~$100 for some used mechanical discs, BB7?) but figure could do the conversion for about $250 sunk.

Detriments to this are that I have a perfectly great canti-frame and it seems crazy to go through all of this, mess up it's beautiful paint (sparkle over olive green) etc.

Positives are that I move to discs, can run tires bigger than 40 (as is, barely clear of straddle cable) - there is frame clearance for probably a 2.1, maybe more.

https://i.ibb.co/529ndDG/20180922-140437.jpg (https://ibb.co/stP6hSb)

Am I crazy to want to do this?
Or should I sell the Sycip and get something more in line with my wants and while I'm at it drink some Coolaid and upgrade standards (thru axle, disc, 1x etc etc).

Thanks for reading

[AngryScientist]

i wouldnt do it.

that's probably a pretty robust frame, but it was designed for the rim brakes, and i dont know that it's necessarily a good idea to weld disc tabs to a chainstay and fork not intended for disc.

i'd leave it as is, and run smaller tires when you want to use fenders. IMO, fat knobby tires and fenders are a bad idea anyway and asking to pick something up and pretzel your fender.

it seems these days everyone wants to run monster truck tires on their drop bar bike, but i honestly feel anything over 40c on 700c wheels is overkill and ruins the "road" feel of the bike. maybe ask yourself honestly if you really want/need to run bigger tires than you are.

[jtakeda]

Well considering sycip himself retrofitted my poprad to fit discs and crimped the chainstays for bigger tires I wouldn’t say it’s dangerous to do so.

I personally would only do it if I knew I’d keep the bike forever.

It’s a boutique frame and someone will appreciate it as it is. I’d get a newer frame with all the new standards and start over

[HTupolev]

Short of switching to Paul Motolites I dont think there is a better clearance v-brake
TRP 8.4 is a mini-V brake. Most v-brakes have far more clearance; on my gravel bike, I'm running 2.1" tires and full-length fenders beneath bog-standard Deore T610 v-brakes. But, those probably have too much mechanical advantage to work well with your brifters (unless you can source a pair of Problem Solvers Travel Agents, or if you switch from brifters to v-brake levers and non-integrated shifters, or to Gevenalle shifters for linear-pull brakes).

As far as disc tabs...
It's okay to add them to the rear triangle, but make sure that the framebuilder adds a reinforcing brace to stiffen the area around the dropout.
I would not add a tab to a fork. If you insist on discs, I'd find a suitable disc fork.

[jr59]

Sell the lightspeed and use that money, plus the money you will be saving by not doing these mods, and get what you want.

This seems a bit easier

[mt2u77]

Don’t mess with happy (and it looks happy).

(If it was mine, I’d just run cantilever brakes, or full size v’s with bar ends. I’d have a hard time leaving that much tire clearance on the table.)

[pdmtong]

I wouldn't spend any money on a mod or repaint. That money is better spent towards getting what you want. The frame will lose even more value since thats a custom to you mod. SAs mentioned, sell the litespeed and start shopping for a new frame.

[unterhausen]

the paint would stop me from doing these mods.

[KonaSS]

I will be the voice of reason here.....I would totally do this. If the bike fits, and you really like, why not make the mods to make it work perfect for you and your application. Sounds like a fun project, and you can always get a new paintj job down the road.

[jtbadge]

$250 in mods plus a new fork (I wouldn't run discs on a fork that wasn't designed for it) and at least $400 for the paint (adding disc tabs will ruin your paint job) makes this seem like an unwise decision.

[weaponsgrade]

I'd trust Sycip to do the mod, but like other's have said I'd only do it if you're planning on keeping the bike forever. By the time you add in the cost of a new paint job and wheels, I think you'd be looking at well over $500. Canti CX frames, even from a boutique builder like Sycip, don't go for much over that.

[mudman]

You’re crazy. But I’d contact the builder and get his thoughts. Maybe order the same spec but disc through him? Otherwise tinker away. I had a friend that would take bmx bikes in highschool and mod them to be 4’ tall to ride around on like a clown. If it makes ya happy, have at it.

[pdmtong]

Time and money can solve a lot of challenges in life

If your wallet is fat have at it. If you have a budget forget the modification

[scopes]

Lots of good points here, appreciate the dialogue.

Seems like I am crazy and I should just ride my damn bike.

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[AngryScientist]

I should just ride my damn bike.


this is a bike forum and we're here to discuss, so it's all good, but 9 times out of 10 this is the truth!

[unterhausen]

I can do the frame mods myself and I wouldn't do it. If cantilever brakes will get you what you want, I would do that.

OTOH, I am pretty sure you can get a decent powder coat in the "PNW" for around $100. Unfortunately, bikes like this one aren't likely to sell too well, so maybe the mods are the way to go. As someone said upthread, check with the builder about putting disc tabs on the fork.

[charliedid]

Lots of good points here, appreciate the dialogue.

Seems like I am crazy and I should just ride my damn bike.

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Yes

[woolly]

My opinion - totally not worth it for mechanical discs.

[mhespenheide]

Try a pair of Avid Ultimate cantis first, before you worry about any frame mods.

[NHAero]

I had a frame builder here in MA add a disc brake tab a few years ago to my Litespeed Unicoi, which I converted to a dropbar monstercross style bike. He did weld a brace between the chainstay and the seatstay. As others say, I'd go right to hydro discs though and wouldn't mess with BB7s, especially the Road BB7.

I've put too much $$ into a 20 year old MTB, but it is a perfect bike for where I live for getting around, which can often be via a combo of pavement, dirt roads, and singletrack. I still run the Rock Shox SID fork it came with, and 2.2 Conti Speed file tread tires. Hydro discs and 2x11, with 42-28 paired with 11-40, Ultegra R8000 and a Roadlink DM. It's a blast. No regrets at all with the money spent. And yes, I could have spent 2 to 3 times as much for something cool like a Hakka MX, and saved 5 pounds!

[d_douglas]

Having seen this bike and being a former sycip owner, I would say don’t do it. It’s gorgeous, has great quality brakes and is as-designed. As Mr Angry said, what is the point of genders and huge knobby tires? Running fenders and 35mm tires sounds perfect and if you want bigger, you probably want to off-road which is best done without fenders.

Very cool bike. I am a huge fan of disc brakes, but wouldn’t want to mess with something this nice. As others have said, sell it (here?) and pour that money into something new. If you can handle something non-boutique, an All City or Salsa of Black Mountain would be an equally good bike with the discs that you desire.

[buddybikes]

I just might have interest in that frame if interested in moving

[tctyres]

You could also do the cheap thing and put on the River City fender splitters: https://store.rivercitybicycles.com/product/river-city-bicycles-reacharound-fender-brackets-4486.htm

You'd then have a good idea if you even like having fenders on that bike.
They are designed for racier bikes, but I don't see why they wouldn't work on your monstercross.

https://live.staticflickr.com/6106/6342525781_8eeb56f17b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/aEt6WM)
reacharound fender adapter rear (https://flic.kr/p/aEt6WM) by Alexander Hongo (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dinosaur1/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/6091/6343275792_f640c1e3bb.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/aEwWU1)
reacharound fender adapter front (https://flic.kr/p/aEwWU1) by Alexander Hongo (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dinosaur1/), on Flickr

https://youtu.be/YuSQnc3Fg9E?t=39

[bicycletricycle]

Maybe call Jeremy? He is nice.

[chiasticon]

Running fenders and 35mm tires sounds perfect and if you want bigger, you probably want to off-road which is best done without fenders.this is my outlook. my cross bike used to go from race mode to winter mode in November: fat off-road tires off, fat-ish road tires on, PDW fenders on, and go. I ran it with Shorty Ultimate cantis, and northeast ohio winters aren't dry. it works. would discs brake better? sure. but I never had trouble stopping.

if disc is what you're really after though, I'd just sell the bike to fund it. sure someone else would adore that frame as is.

also you didn't mention in your first post cost estimate, but you'd need to have the builder spread the rear end spacing, right? it's steel so shouldn't be a problem. but I'm sure that'll cost a little bit too, to have it done right.

[FlashUNC]

All this work for BB7s? Nah. That's crazy. Try better cantis.

[cmg]

sell the lightspeed, take the money allocated for the mods and get a frame built for your needs. Waltly bikes came up as a low budget alternative for a custom build http://waltlytitanium.com/ but there are others. so there are options.

[denapista]

I wouldn't modify that bike to accommodate old technology (BB7 Mechanical brakes). Just sell the bike and send some of that money to Jay to build you a modern bike to fit your needs. Hydro Disc brakes are the business, and mechanical disc brakes are fine but for the price you might as well go Hydro.

I would sell that frame and buy the frame that meets your needs.

[jtbadge]

He’s already got the best canti brakes, TRP CX8.4.

BB7 and Avid Ultimate canti will get more tire/fender clearance but actually be worse at braking.

[denapista]

Fingers after a long rocky descent with Cantis

https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/wpid-davidmorrisonnn_450x256.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=450%2C256

Fingers after a long descent with Hydro Disc brakes

https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/beautiful-women-hands-isolate-applying-260nw-270667106.jpg

[pdmtong]

He’s already got the best canti brakes, TRP CX8.4.
BB7 and Avid Ultimate canti will get more tire/fender clearance but actually be worse at braking.

Argh...I overlooked the most obvious thing. All this for BB7? Nope - that is a non-starter for sure.

[scopes]

I'm not sold on bb7s just like the reliability of Mech and having cable actuated would be a cheaper transition as it'd allow me to keep the shifters, maybe juin tech?

That said likely doesn't make a lot of sense. I plan in emailing Sycip to see what his thoughts are on this.

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[72gmc]

This year I demo'ed disc bikes, and had a plan to purchase an affordable disc bike, so that I could spend a year or so working out my wish list before ordering a custom frame. Life is putting that plan on hold at the moment, but that is the level of confirmation I needed to feel good about making my current rim brake frame redundant. I'd feel the same way about putting my current frame under the knife.

[KidWok]

I have a very similar setup to OP's bike and I live in the rainy PNW. Short answer: I'd leave the Sycip alone.

My setup is a Gunnar Crosshairs running 50/34 x 11-32. It's an "all-road" setup with lightweight low spoke-count wheels that can take up to 38mm tires. The gravel that I ride doesn't need much more than 32-35's so it wears 32's most of the time. It has a flat crown Waterford upgrade fork which I've also had on a previous Crosshairs and also a Roadie. That fork is just magic with its slender and curved fork blades. I actually avoided discs specifically because I wanted the ride qualities of that fork and have yet to see a disc-brake fork be able to replicate it.

On the Gunnar, I'm also using the TRP 8.4's except with a 7800 shifter that the 8.4 was designed to work with instead of the 9.0. Only mentioning that because there may be some difference in feel when using the longer pull levers OP has with the 8.4's. I actually REALLY like the stock TRP pads with these brakes and didn't bother switching them out to Kool Stop Salmon compound brakes like I would with stock Shimano and Campagnolo brakes. I've also used both Shimano and Avid cable-actuated disc brakes. Even in wet conditions, I think the TRP's are pretty solid brakes.

I also have a cable-actuated disc brake equipped bike, now a Traitor Ruben but formerly a Soma Double Cross Disc. That one is set up 50/34 x 11-36 with fenders and touring racks. It's running 36 hole heavy duty wheels. I've had this setup now for about 8 years and is used for commuting and touring. The low gearing was originally for towing my kids in trailers up some steep hills in Seattle, but I've since found that it's also great for fully-loaded touring, towing cargo, etc.

Other than the choice of brakes, wheels and gearing, these two bikes are actually pretty similar. The determining factor for me with disc brakes has been how much I expect to use the brakes (such as city riding or descending with loaded bags) and/or if it will be predominantly wet. For a bike that will be ridden often in the rain and "put away wet", the disc brakes and fenders are a must. I can use the brakes all day long and don't need to worry about crud building up on the rims that decrease braking performance. I also don't need to worry about wearing down rims and rebuilding the wheels every few years.

But for a bike that I want to spend all day on for a mostly dry ride without having to carry much of a load, I'd MUCH rather take the Gunnar. It's got amazing ride qualities and as good of braking as I want or need for gravel/all-road applications. If I were to ride this bike all day in the rain, I'd be coming home to half an hour of bike cleaning, especially giving the rims a scrub and inspecting the brake pads for little bits of metal.

So the long answer is "it depends on what you're using the bike for" and it sounds like this is a lovely long-ride bike, hence leaving it alone. Short of getting a completely different bike for an adjacent functional purpose as I have done, you could opt for a mullet configuration where you put on a disc brake fork, maybe only during the wet months. If you get a female-female ferule or in-line brake levers, swapping between the forks wouldn't be too hard with pre-cut cables and housing.

That said, I tend to like to build my bikes to more perfectly fit a narrower range of function than having one bike that does a mediocre job with a wider range of function.

Tai

[mhespenheide]

I commented early that you should try some Avid Ultimates; they'll help with a little more clearance so that you're not fighting up against hitting the cable of TRP mini-v's.

I agree with Tai, though, on review. Keep the Sycip for what it is and then go pick up a Lynskey on closeout that's designed around discs from the beginning. Ti and discs for crappy conditions and burlier trails, the Sycip for dry days and mixed terrain. Keep a second set of wheels with slick 32's for the Sycip on road days and sell the Litespeed if it's not getting ridden.