OT: Solar panels forum at large / RI specific

[vav]

This forum is very knowledgeable in many fronts so I am asking for input and tips if you went the solar panel route or thinking about it. If you are in RI and don't mind sharing info even better

Concerns: Is it worthy? Pros and cons? Initial cost?

I have not done much research yet but the info out there is a bit confusing so I figure I start here.

Thanks all ;)

[avalonracing]

Not RI specific but if you plan to sell your house within the next few years some buyers are sketched out by solar panels as the panels need to be removed if the roof is replaced or leaks.

[vav]

Roof is 3 years old so hopefully not an issue anytime soon and I am planning on staying here for many years. Thanks

[cmg]

my opinion. If you go solar the system will be more efficient, more usable if there is a battery back up system. if the people at residence all work during the day there will very little load in use when it is generated. A battery system will allow the residence to use the energy stored latter in the evening when most people are at home. also reduce the energy consumption first, buy energy efficient appliances, use only LED light bulbs throughout the house particular any lights that are left on all night like a porch light or bathroom light. more of my opinion, consider running the HVAC, water heater or just the kitchen circuits and size your solar system for just those circuits. It will reduce of the initial cost of the system and battery backup, allow you to use energy when generated and have a quicker rate of return on your investment. do some research, do not consider leasing a system or renting or sharing energy. remember it's better to use the energy generated then to sell it to a municipality. you'll be in the red selling to a utility. they buy it for a .05 a kilowatt and it costs you .09 to generate it. my opinion...... Visit a youtube Jehu garcia , watch his vids on the subject. https://revolution-green.com/jehu-garcia-youtuber-redefining-renewable-energy/ Final comment, buying from a 3rd party provider will always be at a considerable mark up. some as high as 300% So when your quoted keeping mine 1/3 is for labor, 1/3 materials and 1/3 for profit.

[NHAero]

Does RI have net metering (energy you export generates a credit equal to cost of energy imported)? Are there any SRECs (Solar Renewable Energy Certificates) and what are their value per MWh? What do you pay for electricity, and how much is a system installed per kWh generated over 25 years where you live?

I live in MA. My system paid itself off after about 6 years. The annual output offsets what we use in the house (small, all-electric) and runs the PHEV on the Island (it's primarily gasoline once we get to the mainland).

Talk to a couple of reputable vendors.

[cmg]

Does RI have net metering (energy you export generates a credit equal to cost of energy imported)? Are there any SRECs (Solar Renewable Energy Certificates) and what are their value per MWh? What do you pay for electricity, and how much is a system installed per kWh generated over 25 years where you live?

I live in MA. My system paid itself off after about 6 years. The annual output offsets what we use in the house (small, all-electric) and runs the PHEV on the Island (it's primarily gasoline once we get to the mainland).

Talk to a couple of reputable vendors.

What was the square footage of the house and what was the ball park costs?

[MikeD]

Do you have NEM metering and/or high utility rates? If not, then it's probably not economical.

[rain dogs]

Solar panels can be looked at in two principle categories: Photovoltaic (electricity) and Thermal aka SDHW (Solar Domestic Hot Water).

If you have a large family, large hot water use or a big shunt load (pool), hot tub etc. this is still by far the most efficient solar setup you can install (about 40% efficient).

You also CAN use it for home heating but that gets more tricky to describe here, for the simple reason that normally when the sun is firing (summer), you are looking for cooling options not heating. But that's another thing....

Many people seem to think that "Solar" is just electricity, and while that's a great use too, thermal/SDHW is often a cheaper, easier, more effective/eco install.

Just a thought.

[NHAero]

The house is a single story 1,300 sf that I gutted and superinsulated. Heating and cooling is a minisplit heat pump, hot water is a heat pump water heater, lighting is LED, etc. And there's just two people. So loads are low compared to the average US household. The 4.8 kW PV system cost about $24K before tax credits in 2011, maybe $15K net when the dust settled. Costs have really come down since then. We had built up a substantial credit with the utility so we bought a plug-in hybrid last year which is pretty much running on electric here, so now we're just about even annually.

What was the square footage of the house and what was the ball park costs?

[vav]

Thank you everyone that chimed in. Im probably more confused now :banana: but I'll keep digging into it.

[MikeD]

I would just get an estimate from one company to start. They will estimate the size, cost, power production, how much you will save over your power bills, payback period, etc. If you decide to go ahead, I would get estimates from 3 companies, minimum.

[cmg]

"So loads are low compared to the average US household." Had an estimate for a system with an average daily use of around 15kW. it was going to cost $39K.

[NHAero]

If what you mean below is average daily usage of 15 kWh (this is what you get billed for, the units of energy; kW are units of power) then that's 5,475 kWh/year, pretty close to my usage which is just about 6,000 kWh/year. That's likely a 4.5 kW system in San Antonio (you can check with free NREL software online called PVWatts). I'd be surprised that system would cost over $18K before tax credits in TX.

"So loads are low compared to the average US household." Had an estimate for a system with an average daily use of around 15kW. it was going to cost $39K.

[Dekonick]

I was reading into this after your post.

What I came up with is 1/3 cost = materials, 1/3 = install cost, 1/3 = profit for installer.

If you are handy, installing a rack and the panels isn't too hard. You might even look at ground mount. The connection etc... must be done by electrician and utility - they got ya by the balls there. You can get a 10kw array for +/- 10k, getting battery is another matter. Your cost is really dependent on the region; cheaper in CA, more in NE. I was looking at a 16kw with battery back-up total cost quoted $54,000 before credits. I thought it was a tad high for roughly 20k tops in equipment.

I decided to wait.

[C40_guy]

Talk with a couple of local installers, get full proposals from them, with estimated production and return values.

Then talk to a half dozen of their customers to find out how the process went and how accurate their production/return values were.

In our case, we installed a 12.5 kWh system three years ago. Large system, fairly expensive, but the federal and state credits knocked more than a third off the cost and we financed it through a low cost "solar" loan. The MA state SRECs cover most of the carrying cost of that loan and (three years in) I figure we have a 5-6 year payback on the system. That's 5-6 total...

Annually, we generate about a third more power than we consume, so we're building a credit with the power company.

Battery backups are expensive. If your grid is reliable, use that as your backup...far cheaper than spending another $10K on equipment.

The roof concern is a non-issue here in New England. We installed over a three year old roof, and it will probably outlast the system as it's shielded from the weather. Removing and reinstalling all of the panels is a day's job, so even if you did have to install a new roof, it wouldn't add much to the cost of the roof.

In NE, owned (versus leased) panels on a house are attractive to most buyers, and the others, well screw them. :) We plan on being in our house for quite a while too, and I'm not giving up 15-20 years of free electricity and helping to save the planet because of a potential concern about a buyer in 2035 not liking my roof!

Interestingly, with the MA SRECs and the federal tax credit, buying a larger system cost us nothing more than a smaller system... So we covered the entire roof.

Keep in mind that site prep (tree removal, etc) may also count toward the federal tax credit.

And, unfortunately the PV versus SDHW conversation seems to have gone away...for the most part, it appears far more cost effective to put up a couple more PV panels than to build a second solar system (hot water). That having been said, we have a second roof with great southern exposure and when I replaced the water heater, I bought one with two sets of coils...so I *could* add solar hot water heating. We spend less that $25/month on DHW, so payback would take a *long* time...but I might just do it anyway...

Do your research and don't listen to all of the strong opinions on the web...there are some that will tell you that the weight of the panels will crush the roof, blah blah. And more. It's all crap.

A typical panel weighs about 40 pounds, so my total installation weighs less than 1500 pounds. A foot of snow on my roof, depending on moisture content, could weigh more than 15,000 pounds.

Anyway, have fun... Let us know what you decide.

[NHAero]

Good advice and experience here!
As to solar hot water - we upsize the solar electric system and install heat pump water heaters. We used to install solar hot water but the systems in general have taken a lot more maintenance than the PVs.

Talk with a couple of local installers, get full proposals from them, with estimated production and return values.

Then talk to a half dozen of their customers to find out how the process went and how accurate their production/return values were.

In our case, we installed a 12.k kWh system three years ago. Large system, fairly expensive, but the federal and state credits knocked more than a third off the cost and we financed it through a low cost "solar" loan. The MA state SRECs cover most of the carrying cost of that loan and I figure we have a 5-6 year payback on the system.

Annually, we generate about a third more power than we consume, so we're building a credit with the power company.

Battery backups are expensive. If your grid is reliable, use that as your backup...far cheaper than spending another $10K on equipment.

The roof concern is a non-issue here in New England. We installed over a three year old roof, and it will probably outlast the system as it's shielded from the weather. Removing and reinstalling all of the panels is a day's job, so even if you did have to install a new roof, it wouldn't add much to the cost.

In NE, owned (versus leased) panels on a house are attractive to most buyers, and the others, well screw them. :) We plan on being in our house for quite a while too, and I'm not giving up 15-20 years of free electricity and helping to save the planet because of a potential concern about a buyer in 2035 not liking my roof!

Interestingly, with the MA SRECs and the federal tax credit, buying a larger system cost us nothing more than a smaller system... So we covered the entire roof.

Keep in mind that site prep (tree removal, etc) may also count toward the federal tax credit.

And, unfortunately the PV versus SDHW conversation seems to have gone away...for the most part, it appears far more cost effective to put up a couple more PV panels than to build a second solar system (hot water). That having been said, we have a second roof with great southern exposure and when I replaced the water heater, I bought one with two sets of coils...so I *could* add solar hot water heating. We spend less that $25/month on DHW, so payback would take a *long* time...but I might just do it anyway...

Do your research and don't listen to all of the strong opinions on the web...there are some that will tell you that the weight of the panels will crush the roof, blah blah. And more. It's all crap.

A typical panel weighs about 40 pounds, so my total installation weighs less than 1500 pounds. A foot of snow on my roof, depending on moisture content, could weigh more than 15,000 pounds.

Anyway, have fun... Let us know what you decide.

[wc1934]

This Old House just had a 2 second piece on solar panel wiring. Apparently squirrels had gnawed on many of the wires. To prevent this, they suggested a wire mesh be placed around the panels prohibiting them access to the wires.

[Bazartorie]

As for me, installing solar panels on your house is a great way to reduce your carbon footprint and save on energy costs! Just be sure to do your research and choose a reputable installer.

[oldpotatoe]

As for me, installing solar panels on your house is a great way to reduce your carbon footprint and save on energy costs! Just be sure to do your research and choose a reputable installer.

HA..got another one..FNG jumping on a zombie post...:eek:

Spammer?

[pinkshogun]

I had RISE...Rhode islander saving energy do and eval of the house then blow in insulation and fix some drafts/vents ects. that helped a little bit. initiallly the work was going to cost me half of the 7k they quoted me then magically it was free so i jumped on it. my 68 year old house had little to no insulation in the walls and high ceilings

my take on solar is if its not broke dont create possible leaks in your roof from who the hell knows if they are competent installers....button up the house instead

[C40_guy]

my take on solar is if its not broke dont create possible leaks in your roof from who the hell knows if they are competent installers....button up the house instead

It's not either - or. It's both.

Finding a competent installer is not rocket science. You just have to do your due diligence. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, we installed solar in September of 2016 and haven't paid a dime to Eversource since. We also have not had an issue with our roof. It's no different than finding another competent contractor, someone to do a kitchen or bathroom, etc...

Solar will be worth an additional $30-40K for us over the next ten years in the house. I would need to earn $50-65K over that time to cover that expense. Panels have already paid for themselves. The rest is free electricity.

Not to mention the good it does to avoid all that plant generated electricity, whether it's NG or something else.