Opinions on BH frames?

[K3RRY]

Hi everyone,

How are BH frames? I don’t hear too much about them here in the US.
Considering an Ultralight Evo for one of my builds

Thanks for your input

Kerry

[kramnnim]

I've had a couple of pre Evo Ultralights. Light, stiff, ride nicely. Friend has a Large frame for sale pretty cheap...

[K3RRY]

I've had a couple of pre Evo Ultralights. Light, stiff, ride nicely. Friend has a Large frame for sale pretty cheap...

Thanks
Pm’d You

[Lanternrouge]

I had an Ultralight. It was a great bike.

[Plum Hill]

BH USA is headquartered in St. Charles, Mo.
The local riding group goes by the place every Monday morning, yet no one knows it’s there.

[rain dogs]

BH is the Spanish/Basque bike manufacturer Beistegui Hermanos SA (Beistegui brothers). They are a very similar, but smaller, company in many ways to Orbea. They're both based in the Basque country (Vitoira BH, Mallabia Orbea), they both began as gun manufacturers but moved into bicycles around WW1 or just thereafter.

They make good carbon bikes, like everyone I guess. They currently sponsor the Spanish BH-Burgos team and the French Arkea-Samsic (Greipel, etc) and have sponsored other pro teams like Liberty Seguros and Xacobeo Galicia. I guess their specialty is super lightweight frames?

You see them around here (Spain) quite a bit but they're nowhere hear the size of Orbea which is an enormous company (co-operative).

BH and Orbea are the two brand names all the kids grew up with. Every kid had one or the other or both at one point.

If you like it, it's as good a carbon bike as any.

[CDollarsign]

BH USA is headquartered in St. Charles, Mo.
The local riding group goes by the place every Monday morning, yet no one knows it’s there.

What?! Where is it exactly in St. Chuck?

[benb]

I had a G5.

Some of this stuff is bike/model specific, some of it is not:

Pros:
- Great riding bike
- First bike I had with a tapered steerer, it worked well for me
- Comfy & stiff, etc..
- Fit worked well for me as well

Cons:
- Seat mast design sucked
- Had problems with the clamp, adjustment was hard, saddle slipped
- Couldn't easily get a new seatmast toppper
- Dealer had trouble with getting parts
- Unsure what would happen if I'd ever have needed warranty service

So overall.. bike was good, brand was shaky. That was an expensive frame... the level of service available on it was terrible compared to similarly priced comparable bikes from US big brands or local boutique/custom shops.

Honestly this kind of thing turns me off almost any European brand that doesn't have a massive US presence. Most of the Euro bikes are made in Asia anyway.. might as well have one that's wearing the badges of a US or Asian brand (e.x. Giant) that has a great business presence and customer service in the US. I kind of feel like if I'd bought a Colnago, Look, Pinarello, etc.. the experience might have been similar.

My Trek Domane 5-series frame was a LOT cheaper frame (almost half the price).. it's a much better bike than the G5 in most ways, in a few the G5 might have been better, it certainly had some cachet/rareness and was cool. But the service is a huge difference.. I could go get parts for the Trek very easily, very quickly, and no worries if something happened about warranty. For the money the G5 was I could easily be into a custom frame too.

[makoti]

What?! Where is it exactly in St. Chuck?

Outside of St Louis.

[Plum Hill]

What?! Where is it exactly in St. Chuck?

620 N. 2nd Street.
Big brick building at intersection of 2nd and Clark. I believe there’s a small sign out front. A ride through the alley behind the building will net sight of a trailer and a bunch of BH boxes.
The company picked St. Charles due to it’s location in the center of the US.
St. Louis Metro area has exactly one shop (with two locations) that sells the brand.

Now...is BH produced in Spain (as Orbea is, or once was) or another branded Far East product?

[Lanternrouge]

620 N. 2nd Street.
Big brick building at intersection of 2nd and Clark. I believe there’s a small sign out front. A ride through the alley behind the building will net sight of a trailer and a bunch of BH boxes.
The company picked St. Charles due to it’s location in the center of the US.
St. Louis Metro area has exactly one shop (with two locations) that sells the brand.

Now...is BH produced in Spain (as Orbea is, or once was) or another branded Far East product?

Far east like basically every non-boutique bike.

[trener1]

I am pretty sure (though I could be wrong), that Orbea's are still made in Spain.

[rain dogs]

The vast majority of BH frames are/were produced in asia afailk. Orbea has aggressively been moving out of asia.

Orbea produces a ton of bicycles in Spain and Portugal. Their highest end bikes have (almost) always been made in Spain. The last I knew, they still make some bicycles in Asia but that's either changed completely or soon to.

[benb]

Orbea has aggressively been moving out of asia.

Orbea produces a ton of bicycles in Spain and Portugal. Their highest end bikes have (almost) always been made in Spain. The last I knew, they still make some bicycles in Asia but that's either changed completely or soon to.

This is really interesting.. I'd love to hear more about how/why they are doing this. Really interesting when it doesn't look like many other brands are interested in doing that.

I would say that should really help differentiate them.

[trener1]

I was just listening to a podcast last week and they had someone on from Orbea, and he mentioned that being that they are a coop they feel a certain responsibility to keep jobs in the Basque Country, I am not sure if that is the full or real reason, but that is at least part of the reason.

[azrider]

Loved my Ultralight.....although it was a tad tricky to get the fit dialed in. Climbers bike for sure

[rain dogs]

I'm too busy to look in much detail but here are some links re: Orbea... not the most recent info though (2015 + 2016)

orbea-expands-production-in-portugal-stops-in-china (https://www.bike-eu.com/home/artikel/2015/04/orbea-expands-production-in-portugal-stops-in-china-10123688)

orbea-focuses-on-omni-channel-distribution (https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2016/11/orbea-focuses-on-omni-channel-distribution-10128199)

Google Translated: "Orbea has opened its new plant in Portugal. After an event held at the end of April attended by the 55 factory workers and numerous representatives of local institutions, both political (the president of the Chamber), and economic (banks, suppliers and builders), the gun was kicked Departure to our new Portuguese headquarters, which has 8,000 square meters of ship built.

A plant that will also serve as a logistics warehouse and that will collect the surplus production from Mallabia. At its maximum capacity you can gather between 8,000 and 10,000 bicycles (ed. monthly), and it has all the necessary material for its manufacture, two assembly lines and a carbon paint installation.

Although at the moment the factory in Portugal focuses on the low-middle range of the mountain families of Orbea, it is also going to start working with some road models of these ranges.

The production of Orbea bicycles in Portugal is increasing. Right now it is estimated at around 85,000 units per year, although this year it is expected to exceed 90,000 and is marked as the goal to achieve in the next two years the 100,000 bicycles produced per year."

[benb]

FWIW the articles really make it clear Orbea is more Portuguese today but was HQed in the Basque region... BH was traditionally Basque region.

Back when I had my BH I was under the impression it had become a lot more multinational and some of the bikes were not even designed in Spain but were designed by the US branch of the company or other offices and then stuff was manufactured in Asia.

I am not particularly allergic to Asian bikes... most of my bikes have been built in Asia.

[K3RRY]

Awesome info

[rain dogs]

FWIW the articles really make it clear Orbea is more Portuguese today but was HQed in the Basque region... BH was traditionally Basque region.

How so? Sure Orbea makes tons of bikes in Portugal but does that make them Portuguese? Orbea is in the heart of the Basque country and I'm certain has manufactured more bikes in the Basque country than BH has made anywhere in their history.

That's not a critique of BH, I'm just having a hard time following how BH is more "traditionally basque" than Orbea? If that even matters...

What is Cannondale? US? Or Chinese/Canadian? Orbea still makes tons of bikes in Mallabia (Vizcaya.... Basque....Spain)

[bitpuddle]

I was just listening to a podcast last week and they had someone on from Orbea, and he mentioned that being that they are a coop they feel a certain responsibility to keep jobs in the Basque Country.

Do you remember which podcast it was? I’d like to listen to it.

[trener1]

I belive it was The Cycling podcast, if you look through their feed they had a special about the Basque Country during the Vuelta, the whole thing wasn't about Orbea just a small clip, but I am pretty sure that is where I heard it.
If you listen to it and it isn't there, post up and I will try to rack my brain some more.

[benb]

How so? Sure Orbea makes tons of bikes in Portugal but does that make them Portuguese? Orbea is in the heart of the Basque country and I'm certain has manufactured more bikes in the Basque country than BH has made anywhere in their history.

That's not a critique of BH, I'm just having a hard time following how BH is more "traditionally basque" than Orbea? If that even matters...

What is Cannondale? US? Or Chinese/Canadian? Orbea still makes tons of bikes in Mallabia (Vizcaya.... Basque....Spain)

I'm not sure cause I couldn't really find any historical #s. Orbea is an older company (they're both really old) but BH actually started making bikes decades earlier than Orbea did. Both companies did not start out as bike companies but started out as manufacturing companies making other products and then transitioned into bike companies.

I'm not talking about the modern era where stuff gets made in Asia most of the time. Both companies go back to the 1800s IIRC.

[El Chaba]

I do not have the sacrament of confirmation on this, but I heard some years ago that at least the higher end BH frames were made by Giant (which is not a bad thing at all).

[benb]

I do not have the sacrament of confirmation on this, but I heard some years ago that at least the higher end BH frames were made by Giant (which is not a bad thing at all).

It'd be a great thing to somehow get a definitive list of all the bikes that are actually made by Giant.

Based on pictures from a few years ago I wouldn't be surprised if my Trek Domane was made in a Giant factory.

When a Giant is the bike that fits I'm totally happy to buy a Giant and usually save a bunch of money.

[rain dogs]

I'm not sure cause I couldn't really find any historical #s. Orbea is an older company (they're both really old) but BH actually started making bikes decades earlier than Orbea did. Both companies did not start out as bike companies but started out as manufacturing companies making other products and then transitioned into bike companies.

I'm not talking about the modern era where stuff gets made in Asia most of the time. Both companies go back to the 1800s IIRC.

Orbea began making bicycles in 1931. BH after the first world war... let's say ~1920ish. Orbea began as a company in 1840 and BH in 1909 in which both had been making weapons/arms/guns at a point in their respective histories.

The BH part of that history can be seen on their webpage:
https://www.bhbikes.com/es_ES/quienes-somos/mas-de-100-anos-de-historia

[Plum Hill]

I found an article yesterday concerning tariffs and Kent Bicycles. The article had a paragraph about bicycle production in Portugal. I believe this is the link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-21/-angriest-man-creates-tariff-headache-for-made-in-usa-bicycles .
I tried to open it today but can’t get the whole article since I’m not a subscriber.

[FriarQuade]

It'd be a great thing to somehow get a definitive list of all the bikes that are actually made by Giant.

Based on pictures from a few years ago I wouldn't be surprised if my Trek Domane was made in a Giant factory.

When a Giant is the bike that fits I'm totally happy to buy a Giant and usually save a bunch of money.

Contract manufacturing is a constantly changing space. Even if you could get all that info keeping it current would be a full time job.

[Plum Hill]

Forgot to report back.
A friend and I stopped by BH USA on 10/8/19 while out for a ride. We found local cycling entrepreneur “MW” there.
I posed the question “are BH bikes made in Spain, Portugal, or the Far East?”.
“All of the above” was the reply.

What I gathered from the conversation is BH is big into exercise equipment (there was a large showroom containing treadmillls, etc.) and E-bikes in the US, and they are trying to boost road and mtb sales here. They are also a co-licensee or co-patent holder (foggy memory) of a full suspension mtb design. We were told they’d have a bike showroom set up at the HQ after the new bike models came out.

[the bottle ride]

The definition of where the bike is made in the EU is determined by *where* the greatest value in the process in creation process was done:
So if a frame was built in the Far East and shipped, but the finish was done in Spain (which may have cost more due to higher production costs) the manufacturer can claim the country of origin.

Orbea/BH are great bikes - pretty sure they are made in the Far East (which makes sense- they really have the means of production for high end carbon down pat)

[Heisenberg]

The definition of where the bike is made in the EU is determined by *where* the greatest value in the process in creation process was done:
So if a frame was built in the Far East and shipped, but the finish was done in Spain (which may have cost more due to higher production costs) the manufacturer can claim the country of origin.

Orbea/BH are great bikes - pretty sure they are made in the Far East (which makes sense- they really have the means of production for high end carbon down pat)

nearly all orbea carbon bikes come from the far east, get painted/finished in spain. hence "made in spain".

i rode an ultralight once. it was pretty bouncy and noodly. ymmv.