Firefly ebike prototype

[Dude]

I was cruising reddit and noticed “some guy” building up a new electric commuter. Turns out it’s an owner of Firefly. Bosch 3D printed some mounts and he(I’m assuming?) was building it up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190917/d4407df8eef009b0e849f7a7945abf2b.jpg


https://reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/d05ick/commuter_project/

[buddybikes]

It appears that FF has a Rapha party or something last weekend where they were going to show a prototype, so this make sense. If anyone here reads this and can post would be interesting.

[eddief]

ebikes ubikquitus.

[eric01]

Ebikes are the next big thing after gravel.

Interesting to see the news outlet coverage of Eurobike this year. Lots of ebikes.

Makes sense to dip their toes in and see where it goes

[happycampyer]

I spoke briefly with Tyler at D2R2 and he mentioned that Jamie was working on this. As the kids would say, that bike will have the drip. Love the Skunkworks covering of the bottom bracket. I’ll hold off for the folding version—imagine a 20lb folding titanium Firefly e-bike...

[Tyler Evans]

Yup! Finally out of the prototype stage and into production. Instead of focusing on making a specific eModel, we have instead focused on making an eUpgrade to any of our existing models. This one is a commuter.

eBikes are kind of polarizing to the cycling community but they do serve a purpose. They are efficient transportation. In this case, don't think of it as replacing a bike, but like replacing a car. Boston traffic can suck hard in a car. An eBike commuter makes it tolerable. Gotta run errands after work? No problem. Gotta find parking in Cambridge? No problem. All this during rush hour? No problem.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48745849892_4a44102d74_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48745672651_398a06e3b8_h.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48745672751_0c175645a8_h.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

ebikes ubikquitus.

Riding home yesterday..along 26th street..bike lane..very slight uphill..got dusted off by some guy on an ebike, fatbike, thing..he's not pedaling at all..but going almost the speed limit(25mph), in the bike lane..he stops at stoplight..looks both ways, pedals about 3 times and off he goes..not pedaling..and he ran the red light too..

geez..electric scooters..:bike:

[fa63]

Riding home yesterday..along 26th street..bike lane..very slight uphill..got dusted off by some guy on an ebike, fatbike, thing..he's not pedaling at all..but going almost the speed limit(25mph), in the bike lane..he stops at stoplight..looks both ways, pedals about 3 times and off he goes..not pedaling..and he ran the red light too..



geez..electric scooters..:bike:Isn't it nice that at least he wasn't driving a car? He even stopped at the stoplight :-)

[Blue Jays]

Tyler and Jamie...awesome new development. Thank you both for all your great thinking.
We all have pals that we would love for them to be able to join us on our rides.
This is something that would see frequent use in my household for all the reasons mentioned.

:hello:

[Big Dan]

When do they become scooters?
At a certain speed they should travel on the road.

[Dude]

As i'm sure other members can attest, non-ebikes are mostly a US thing. Ebikes are all over europe.

@Tyler, can you talk about that bosch mid-drive? That doesn't look like other Boschs.

[oldpotatoe]

When do they become scooters?
At a certain speed they should travel on the road.

100% agree.. e'assist', sure, why not..but e'drive'? I see motorized scooters in the bike lane all the time too...

[buddybikes]

The retro ( of our investment) plan (I assume for FF customers) is great. Someday I will probably need it.

[XXtwindad]

When do they become scooters?
At a certain speed they should travel on the road.

A very reasonable question.

[Ttx1]

Yup! Finally out of the prototype stage and into production. Instead of focusing on making a specific eModel, we have instead focused on making an eUpgrade to any of our existing models. This one is a commuter.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48745849892_4a44102d74_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48745672651_398a06e3b8_h.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48745672751_0c175645a8_h.jpg

Hey Tyler,

Great work as usual. A bunch of Qs...

Was this a customer project? Do I recall a prior Bosch bike from FF? If yes, what's different this time? Have you looked at the Superpedestrian solution (aka "Copenhagen Wheel") - any thoughts there?

Rock on...

[Lewis Moon]

Isn't it nice that at least he wasn't driving a car? :-)

I'm on the record as absolutely hating e-bikes, but this argument negates all of that.
We are never going to get the vast majority of lazy, corpulent couch toads out of their cars and onto bikes unless the bike does the riding for them.
I live 13.5 miles of dead flat road from work. I can ride that in 45 minutes including lights w/o breaking much of a sweat, yet friends at work completely freak out that I commute by bike. Even more so when I tell them that I do a 29 mile route with hills instead because the 13.5 is way too short.
For most folks, riding three miles would be a physical hellscape. E-bikes (or an apocalypse) are the only way they will ever choose to ride rather than drive to the neighborhood store.
...and yes, I got passed by an e-bike this morning on my way to work. Wanted to strangle the fat ***ker.
Gonna have to work on that.

[FlashUNC]

We are never going to get the vast majority of lazy, corpulent couch toads out of their cars and onto bikes unless the bike does the riding for them.


Makes gas $7 a gallon and I suspect you'll find some new converts to this cycling thing, e-bike or no.

[Tyler Evans]

Anecdotally, I was riding my eBike to work this morning and while stopped at a light an older (elderly) gentleman pulled up next to me on his eBike. We had enough time to chat. We both have the same commute, 10 miles each way by bike which takes us each about 30 minutes by eBike and from experience and about 40 minutes by car. He said that before eBikes he just couldn't physically ride every day, now he is a daily rain-or-shine eCommuter. I think that is super rad on many levels.

[oldpotatoe]

Makes gas $7 a gallon and I suspect you'll find some new converts to this cycling thing, e-bike or no.

Nope..make gas scarce and you 'might' but there will be lotsa other issues going on..Gas has been that range in Europe for a log time and yes, Europe is different(smaller) but people drive in Europe just like they always have.

[d_douglas]

Sign me up. For the right application, they’re great! I went out for dinner in Seattle with my wife and two friends and it was amazing. No car, no gas, another beer ;)

[sparky33]

Yes and yes. You make the case for eBike transportation perfectly.

He said that before eBikes he just couldn't physically ride every day, now he is a daily rain-or-shine eCommuter.

In this case, don't think of it as replacing a bike, but like replacing a car. Boston traffic can suck hard in a car. An eBike commuter makes it tolerable. Gotta run errands after work? No problem. Gotta find parking in Cambridge? No problem.

Another case for the eBike: an acquaintance of mine is largely responsible for maintaining 100+ miles of trail and woodland paths on Martha's Vineyard. He relies heavily on a couple 27.5+ eMTBs to regularly inspect all of the trails and to haul in equipment (chainsaws, etc) to work sites. The eMTB makes this volume of trail management possible and relatively low-impact. Joining a trail inspection a borrowed eMTB is also a lot of fun.

[chiasticon]

Riding home yesterday..along 26th street..bike lane..very slight uphill..got dusted off by some guy on an ebike, fatbike, thing..he's not pedaling at all..but going almost the speed limit(25mph), in the bike lane..he stops at stoplight..looks both ways, pedals about 3 times and off he goes..not pedaling..and he ran the red light too..

geez..electric scooters..:bike:honestly I don't know a ton about them so this could be a dumb comment... but my confusion rests with seeing people blast around on them going downhill or on the flats. seems you'd want to save the battery and, you know, get some exercise in by actually pedaling on the flats/coasting downhill, then use the e-assist for uphills. but I only ever see people going full tilt on them.

[FlashUNC]

Nope..make gas scarce and you 'might' but there will be lotsa other issues going on..Gas has been that range in Europe for a log time and yes, Europe is different(smaller) but people drive in Europe just like they always have.

I never said it would eliminate driving. But you would see a more distributed mix of transit usage than you do today (a la Europe) if gas were priced more as it is elsewhere than here and people consider making different choices.

It would force us to reconsider all the knock-on decisions we've made as a result of cheap gas over the last few decades, and that would include some folks who we thought we couldn't pry out of their cars suddenly thinking this whole bike thing ain't such a bad idea.

[mt2u77]

I was cruising reddit and noticed “some guy” building up a new electric commuter. Turns out it’s an owner of Firefly. Bosch 3D printed some mounts and he(I’m assuming?) was building it up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190917/d4407df8eef009b0e849f7a7945abf2b.jpg


https://reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/d05ick/commuter_project/

I don't have much to add to the ebike discussion, but that is one kick-ass base for work stand!

[Mark McM]

As i'm sure other members can attest, non-ebikes are mostly a US thing. Ebikes are all over europe.

The difference is, in Europe, they actually are e-bikes. European regulations limit electric assist to 25 kph (15.5 mph). "E-bikes" sold in the US have electric assist to much higher speeds (20 mph for Class 1&2, 28 mph for class 3), and many of these also have throttle modes (no pedaling required).

Let's face it - if the vehicle can be driven without the rider providing the power, then it is a motor scooter, not a bicycle. I'm not against motor scooters at all - the US would probably be a better place if more people rode motor scooters and less drove automobiles. But motor scooters shouldn't be lumped together with bicycles.

[Mark McM]

100% agree.. e'assist', sure, why not..but e'drive'? I see motorized scooters in the bike lane all the time too...

Here in Massachusetts, regulations allow e-bike in on-street bike lanes, but not off-street recreation paths. This seems reasonable to me, but I suspect that there will be little to no enforcement on the many rail trails here in Massachusetts. Earlier this year, there was collision death on the Minuteman Bikeway rail trail in Lexington, MA, largely due to a rider going faster than appropriate for the conditions. As it is now, the number of riders on recreation paths that can and do ride too fast is limited. But if e-bike users start riding the paths, there will be no double be more of these collisions.

[bicycletricycle]

that looks great, SVEN has been making some nice hand made electric frames recently. I think these are a great addition to the bicycle family.

[pasadena]

Gravel bikes are a blip on radar compared to the e-bike market.

Ebikes are the next big thing after gravel.

Interesting to see the news outlet coverage of Eurobike this year. Lots of ebikes.

Makes sense to dip their toes in and see where it goes

[pasadena]

This argument has nothing to do with ebikes. Was the accident you cited even involving an ebike? The same false logic could be applied to cars, but is not. The speed limits are enough legislation, as is for MUPS. The last thing I want is more legislation regarding bicycle sales.

High power cars are 'penalized' in two ways: Both only affect the owner of the car: luxury tax and insurance rates.
Insurance rates determined by several factors, but leave gov legislation out of it.
If we were to apply the same standard to bicycles, road racing bikes would be heavily taxed and most expensive to insure due to speed, likelyhood of crash and accidents as well as high maintenance.

The vast majority of ebikes are 'work' utility bikes.

The only legislation that should be out there is taxpayer funds allocated to segregated bike lanes and making more of them.



Here in Massachusetts, regulations allow e-bike in on-street bike lanes, but not off-street recreation paths. This seems reasonable to me, but I suspect that there will be little to no enforcement on the many rail trails here in Massachusetts. Earlier this year, there was collision death on the Minuteman Bikeway rail trail in Lexington, MA, largely due to a rider going faster than appropriate for the conditions. As it is now, the number of riders on recreation paths that can and do ride too fast is limited. But if e-bike users start riding the paths, there will be no double be more of these collisions.

[zlin]

Anecdotally, I was riding my eBike to work this morning and while stopped at a light an older (elderly) gentleman pulled up next to me on his eBike. We had enough time to chat. We both have the same commute, 10 miles each way by bike which takes us each about 30 minutes by eBike and from experience and about 40 minutes by car. He said that before eBikes he just couldn't physically ride every day, now he is a daily rain-or-shine eCommuter. I think that is super rad on many levels.



Awesome! And one thing is guaranteed, we’re all getting older.

[OtayBW]

Very nice, but Oy!......

[buddybikes]

Are there fat slobs riding ebikes - Yes - but better than just sitting

Are there lazy millenials that think it is cool to buzz you on their ebike - Yes and deserve the pump in the wheel treatment

Are there former good cyclists whose bodies are falling apart and these can get them home from their former circuit - Yes
- am I in this crowd - yes - but just slowing down, shortening rides, hoping for that blast of 20something energy in my legs again....

But are we carbon neutral YES!!!!!!!!!

[pasadena]

I've met more than a few people like this.

I used to ride from Boston Harbor over to Trader Joes on Beacon and Harvard after work regularly.
Boston on bicycle is so much easier. Even a quick grocery or dinner meetup in Cambridge was much, much faster by bike. Parking alone makes a bike worth it.

Anecdotally, I was riding my eBike to work this morning and while stopped at a light an older (elderly) gentleman pulled up next to me on his eBike. We had enough time to chat. We both have the same commute, 10 miles each way by bike which takes us each about 30 minutes by eBike and from experience and about 40 minutes by car. He said that before eBikes he just couldn't physically ride every day, now he is a daily rain-or-shine eCommuter. I think that is super rad on many levels.

[Mark McM]

This argument has nothing to do with ebikes.

The people who made the regulations think it does. Why else would they expressly prohibit e-bikes from recreational bike paths, if not for concerns of speed differentials (on narrow, crowded multi-use paths)?

[Mark McM]

But are we carbon neutral YES!!!!!!!!!

Do you charge your e-bike with your own solar cells or wind turbine? If not, it is probably not carbon neutral. In the US, 65% of electricity is generated from fossil fuels (and we have a highly inter-linked power network, so odds are that wherever you are in the US, you're getting some of your power from carbon sources). Not even pedal bikes are carbon neutral.

[Blue Jays]

Oh my goodness...
All things being equal, my preference is to see a bicycle, a tricycle, or a unicycle next to me while pedaling on a roadway.
Incremental little steps all help with making everyday bicycle life a bit nicer.

[benb]

I do wish we had regulations requiring them to make you pedal a little bit.

Most of what I see is flat out eMotorcycles. Looks like a bike but you see a fat guy doing 15-20mph up a hill without pedaling. It's a motorcycle, call it what it is and take the pedals off and put pegs on it. Make them get a license and have plates and registration. A lot of the eBikes cost more than your entry level 250cc motorcycles as well! I'm not knocking them here, gas motorcycles are a big improvement over SUVs and 4000lb sedans with one person riding in them. eMotorcycles are an improvement over gas motorcycles for all the around town trips as well.

The thing with the death on the bike path here whether it had anything to do with an eBike is they're in the progress of deciding on a 15mph speed limit. That's kind of annoying. It's easy to average > 15mph on that path safely during the morning commute in particular. The MUPpets & Pathletes are not out there for morning commute, nor are the dog walkers and families. I would be mad about someone ruining it for everyone if I was still using the path for commuting into Cambridge like I did years ago.

[pasadena]

The people who made the regulations think it does. Why else would they expressly prohibit e-bikes from recreational bike paths, if not for concerns of speed differentials (on narrow, crowded multi-use paths)?

because of ignorance.

Speed is the only factor that should be legislated.
If safety is the real concern, enforce the speed limit.

Should we make road racing bikes and riding in groups illegal as well?

It's a slippery slope of red tape and expense when personal responsibility and enforcement of current laws are being neglected. The answer is not to add more legislation.

[simplemind]

Haters gonna hate, but as said, the aging population is going to buy. I've witnessed a number of spouses/SO's riding with their fit "cyclists" and having a great time. Also opens up significantly more territory for unfit and fit together.

[duff_duffy]

Wonder what the completed Firefly shown would cost....

[pbarry]

Wonder what the completed Firefly shown would cost....

$10k-12k, wild guess.

[XXtwindad]

Makes gas $7 a gallon and I suspect you'll find some new converts to this cycling thing, e-bike or no.

Doubt it. To (mis)quote Mencken: "No one ever went broke underestimating the desire of the American public to avoid exercise."

[Blue Jays]

"...Awesome! And one thing is guaranteed, we’re all getting older..."

"...Haters gonna hate, but as said, the aging population is going to buy.
I've witnessed a number of spouses/SO's riding with their fit 'cyclists' and having a great time.
Also opens up significantly more territory for unfit and fit together..."

Absolutely! I love my bicycles beyond what words can describe.
It would make my heart soar to think maybe I can even do this into my 80s someday.
Even more fun to noodle around the local neighborhood with elderly relatives. :-)

[Mark McM]

because of ignorance.

Speed is the only factor that should be legislated.
If safety is the real concern, enforce the speed limit.

There currently is no speed limit on the Minuteman Bikeway where the accident occurred.


It's a slippery slope of red tape and expense when personal responsibility and enforcement of current laws are being neglected. The answer is not to add more legislation.

But there needs to be some form or regulations to maintain order. Without them, what is the difference between an e-bike and a motorcycle? Should Harley-Davidson riders be allowed on bike paths? What if they promise to ride safely?

While it is true that there are (pedal) cyclists who can ride faster than the electric assist limit of e-bikes, the practical reality is that they are a small percentage of the riding public, and that they don't do it often. But e-bikes (particularly throttle e-bikes) can be regularly ridden by almost anyone at higher rates of speed than most pedal cyclists. I'm very certain that if e-bikes were allowed on the bike path, the average speeds of cyclists would go up, and the frequency of high-speed passing would increase.

[XXtwindad]

Anecdotally, I was riding my eBike to work this morning and while stopped at a light an older (elderly) gentleman pulled up next to me on his eBike. We had enough time to chat. We both have the same commute, 10 miles each way by bike which takes us each about 30 minutes by eBike and from experience and about 40 minutes by car. He said that before eBikes he just couldn't physically ride every day, now he is a daily rain-or-shine eCommuter. I think that is super rad on many levels.

This is interesting. eBikes seem like a no-brainer from a business perspective. People with disposable income and perhaps less interest in vigorous exercise. Makes perfect sense.

However, I'm willing to bet your experience chatting with another ebiker is an outlier. Anytime you have the capacity to go faster, most people often do. This usually precludes any type of conversation. I know from personal experience that the ebikers who blow by me have very little desire to chit-chat. Similarly, I don't see "ebike" fondos any time in the future. There's just very little about them that seems to foster any greater sense of "community."

[XXtwindad]

There currently is no speed limit on the Minuteman Bikeway where the accident occurred.




But there needs to be some form or regulations to maintain order. Without them, what is the difference between an e-bike and a motorcycle? Should Harley-Davidson riders be allowed on bike paths? What if they promise to ride safely?

While it is true that there are (pedal) cyclists who can ride faster than the electric assist limit of e-bikes, the practical reality is that they are a small percentage of the riding public, and that they don't do it often. But e-bikes (particularly throttle e-bikes) can be regularly ridden by almost anyone at higher rates of speed than most pedal cyclists. I'm very certain that if e-bikes were allowed on the bike path, the average speeds of cyclists would go up, and the frequency of high-speed passing would increase.

Well put.

[Dude]

to clarify "electric bikes" isn't the correct terminology. The electric bike that the thread is originally talking about, a firefly with a bosch middrive motor is a pedal assisted electric bike. As in, the rider must be pedaling for the motor to be engaged. There are laws that apply to them. They can only go up to 20 or 28mph. After that, the motor doesn't provide any power.

Also, stop calling people fat.

[joosttx]

to clarify "electric bikes" isn't the correct terminology. The electric bike that the thread is originally talking about, a firefly with a bosch middrive motor is a pedal assisted electric bike. As in, the rider must be pedaling for the motor to be engaged. There are laws that apply to them. They can only go up to 20 or 28mph. After that, the motor doesn't provide any power.

Also, stop calling people fat.

I thought we were calling them ebikes not electric bikes which is an entirely different thing because ebike means pedal-assisted electric bike which is a more accurate description of an ebike than an electric bike.

[joosttx]

Haters gonna hate, but as said, the aging population is going to buy. I've witnessed a number of spouses/SO's riding with their fit "cyclists" and having a great time. Also opens up significantly more territory for unfit and fit together.

amen.

this will probably be my next bike:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48604305307_83023f5749_z.jpg

[benb]

electric bike or eMoto is actually the correct term for most of what we are seeing though as we're seeing them hauling without any requirement to pedal.

The Firefly might be an eBike but a lot of what is out on the street in the US are really just lighter/slower versions of the Harley Davidson project.

[Mark McM]

I thought we were calling them ebikes not electric bikes which is an entirely different thing because ebike means pedal-assisted electric bike which is a more accurate description of an ebike than an electric bike.

"ebike" obviously is short for "electric bike". The US Federal regulations recognizes several classes of ebikes, which include those which only provide pedal assist, and those which can also be throttle controlled. To avoid confusion, an ebike which only provides pedal assist is often referred to as a "pedelec" (i.e. pedal assist electric bike).

[joosttx]

"ebike" obviously is short for "electric bike". The US Federal regulations recognizes several classes of ebikes, which include those which only provide pedal assist, and those which can also be throttle controlled. To avoid confusion, an ebike which only provides pedal assist is often referred to as a "pedelec" (i.e. pedal assist electric bike).

That sounds like a nickname for a pedophile. I like ebike more.

[NHAero]

I'm in favor of pedal-assist ebikes limited to 15 mph as in Europe, as Mark McM already mentioned. A year ago I was almost creamed on the SUP here in the State Forest on Martha's Vineyard by a guy coming around a corner almost out of control at about 25 mph on a electric bike with throttle, no pedaling needed. He was probably pushing 300 pounds and I wouldn't have fared well in that head-on crash.
We're a second home resort location so this is more true than many other places, but many people renting these ebikes haven't ridden a bike since they were 10 years old so their skills are lacking too.
Yesterday I was pushing hard near the end of a 4 hour ride, on the flat, and a fellow on an ebike passed me like I was in reverse. If he was speed-limited to 15 mph he wouldn't have passed me.

IIRC the Bosch unit Firefly is using is only 250W and is made for those speed limited pedal assisted bikes. I'm glad Firefly is working on making these available!

[pasadena]

Bosh makes mid drive motors that support 20mph to 28mph, which meet the govermental regs of Class 1, or 3 ebikes

I don't know the unit on the Firefly.
It looks like an older Bosch CX unit which was their most powerful. I believe limited to 25kph but very easy to take away the limiter.
If I had that Firefly, def would have the 75nm motor and limiter gone :)

I'm in favor of pedal-assist ebikes limited to 15 mph as in Europe, as Mark McM already mentioned. A year ago I was almost creamed on the SUP here in the State Forest on Martha's Vineyard by a guy coming around a corner almost out of control at about 25 mph on a electric bike with throttle, no pedaling needed. He was probably pushing 300 pounds and I wouldn't have fared well in that head-on crash.
We're a second home resort location so this is more true than many other places, but many people renting these ebikes haven't ridden a bike since they were 10 years old so their skills are lacking too.
Yesterday I was pushing hard near the end of a 4 hour ride, on the flat, and a fellow on an ebike passed me like I was in reverse. If he was speed-limited to 15 mph he wouldn't have passed me.

IIRC the Bosch unit Firefly is using is only 250W and is made for those speed limited pedal assisted bikes. I'm glad Firefly is working on making these available!

[sg8357]

Don't like the speed limiter on your Bosch ?
Get a SpeedBox2.

https://www.ebiketuning.com/speedbox-bosch-gen2.html

[Jamie Medeiros]

Wow I am impressed by the conversation my new pedelec Firefly has received. This bicycle is using the Bosch Performance Speed motor. It is their 350 watt motor that provides assistance to 45 kph (28 mph) making it a class 3 pedelec. Before building this bike I put 2200 miles on a Trek super commuter 8+ which has the same motor to see if this was the system to go with. I looked at the Shimano system and it seemed more difficult for a small builder to use and harder to get. I also looked at the Superpedestrian Copenhagen wheel. The Copenhagen has a whole host of issues including no disc brake option and it needs to be connected to the internet to work. If your phone battery dies, your bike doesn't work.

In my 8 months testing the Bosch system I find I average around 18 mph for my 20 mile round trip commute. With the stop and go nature of it I find that I cruise along at between 20 - 24 mph. Having the head room of the 28 mph limit is nice. I think nothing now of hopping on the bike and running errands. It is faster and more efficient than the car for most trips in Boston.

I enjoy the pedelec aspect of the system. Twelve years ago I built a throttle controlled ebike and I find the pedelec system more intuitive and less obtrusive.

I really don't think I would bother if the assist limit was the 25kph (15mph) EU speed limit. I would ride on nice days and drive on others. From my research I have found one reason for this slow limit is the EU gas scooter lobby trying to protect their market share.

[pasadena]

imo, mid-drive is the best system. Hub motors and something worse, like the Copenhagen wheel (as clever and stylish solution it is), just make the wheel way too heavy and compromise handling- they are a 'budget' or 'conversion' solution but not ideal.

Bosch mid drive is just so seamless feeling, they really have that refined quality going for it.

The bike is gorgeous, it must turn heads in Boston!

Wow I am impressed by the conversation my new pedelec Firefly has received. This bicycle is using the Bosch Performance Speed motor. It is their 350 watt motor that provides assistance to 45 kph (28 mph) making it a class 3 pedelec. Before building this bike I put 2200 miles on a Trek super commuter 8+ which has the same motor to see if this was the system to go with. I looked at the Shimano system and it seemed more difficult for a small builder to use and harder to get. I also looked at the Superpedestrian Copenhagen wheel. The Copenhagen has a whole host of issues including no disc brake option and it needs to be connected to the internet to work. If your phone battery dies, your bike doesn't work.

In my 8 months testing the Bosch system I find I average around 18 mph for my 20 mile round trip commute. With the stop and go nature of it I find that I cruise along at between 20 - 24 mph. Having the head room of the 28 mph limit is nice. I think nothing now of hopping on the bike and running errands. It is faster and more efficient than the car for most trips in Boston.

I enjoy the pedelec aspect of the system. Twelve years ago I built a throttle controlled ebike and I find the pedelec system more intuitive and less obtrusive.

I really don't think I would bother if the assist limit was the 25kph (15mph) EU speed limit. I would ride on nice days and drive on others. From my research I have found one reason for this slow limit is the EU gas scooter lobby trying to protect their market share.

[Burnette]

Yup! Finally out of the prototype stage and into production. Instead of focusing on making a specific eModel, we have instead focused on making an eUpgrade to any of our existing models. This one is a commuter.

eBikes are kind of polarizing to the cycling community but they do serve a purpose. They are efficient transportation. In this case, don't think of it as replacing a bike, but like replacing a car. Boston traffic can suck hard in a car. An eBike commuter makes it tolerable. Gotta run errands after work? No problem. Gotta find parking in Cambridge? No problem. All this during rush hour? No problem.





https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48745672751_0c175645a8_h.jpg

As someone with self diagnosed OCPD I appreciate the time and effort to get details nailed down right on Fireflys. And it carries over to the presentation, photos of your bikes are well done.

It may have been happenstance but I like the way the rear fender brace lines up with the top of the chain and again with the front fender brace. Nice bike and great pics.

As far as Ebikes go, I have been an advocate for cycling for along time and by telling people about cycling I found barriers that some couldn't overcome. Ebikes close at least one gap for some and I see it as a good thing.

It gets people out there with us who may not ever of have done it without this option. And having more people enjoying an activity we enjoy, even if it's a different way will provide benefits going forward. The more of us there are, assisted or not, the louder our voices will be for new laws and infrastructure plans.

I have always appreciated the work that Firefly puts out and I'm glad to see you continue to see cycling from a big and diverse perspective.