Removing a frozen bottom bracket

[cgolvin]

I am swapping my friend's crankset on his Merlin — replacing square taper Record with ultra torque Chorus. Thought it would be simple, have done it plenty of times before.

Turns out it has a Shimano BB so I had to borrow a tool from LBS, they offered to just take it out but couldn't budge it, tried myself, no luck.

Mechanic suggests that the metals have fused, maybe no anti-seize when installed etc. Judging from the crunchy bearings, the BB may not have been touched in 15 years.

Any advice on how to liberate the BB without risk of damage to the shell and threads? I have no experience with to frames and issues like this. Need is kind of urgent, so thanks PL.

[zzy]

The only way you can - with a long lever. Secure the bb tool to the splines with a pedros socket holder. Then put your biggest wrench on it, and try to shock it free with a hammer if need be. Otherwise put a breaker bar on the wrench for more leverage. Ti has a nasty tendency to gall up so it may be very difficult if it hasn't been swapped in a while and no anti seize was used when it was installed.

[Ken Robb]

Would it be safer to try an impact wrench before resorting to max leverage with a BIG wrench? Sometimes the rat-tat-tat helps break up corrosion/galling.

[batman1425]

after securing the tool to the bb, clamp the socket in a vise and use the frame for leverage. If it is a raw finish, could also try applying a little heat to the shell

[Peter P.]

Also, remember the drive side cup on Merlin's is English thread, so you turn it clockwise to loosen it.

Squirt it daily with Liquid Wrench or Kroil then rap the axle with a hammer in all directions for several minutes to help the penetrant do its thing. If you can't free it, spray more and let it sit overnight.

Peer down the seat tube. If there's an access hole into the BB area, buy penetrant in a bottle and pour it down there to flood the area. Leave it there.

You could buy dry ice from any place that sells bottled gases. Wear gloves, and pack the area. Let it sit for an hour and see if that breaks the bond.

Your last option is to drill it out. Drill holes around the axle until it frees. Remove it and use a hacksaw to carefully saw out the rings.

My buddy had this problem with a Campy crank in a Merlin. Removal wasn't pretty or easy.

[Clancy]

I’ve had very good luck with PB Blaster penetrating spray. Readily available at Home Depot or Lowes. Realize rust may not be the issue but rather galvanic corrosion. With that said, I’ve had good luck with Blaster on all types of metals. Spray it in and let it soak for a good while, preferably overnight.

Blaster has allowed me to save parts that appeared to be hopelessly fused.

And as mentioned, a long breaker bar is key. I’d also try heat. And lots of patience.

[K3RRY]

after securing the tool to the bb, clamp the socket in a vise and use the frame for leverage. If it is a raw finish, could also try applying a little heat to the shell


Above said but pb blaster a night or two before. Spray the pb blaster after you warm up the areas with your ladies blow dryer

[oldpotatoe]

after securing the tool to the bb, clamp the socket in a vise and use the frame for leverage. If it is a raw finish, could also try applying a little heat to the shell

I mentioned the same thing along with some sort of liquid..put tool in vice, somebody push hard down from above and turn the frame..and of course..right side =cup righty loosey...IceToolZ tool

[fmradio516]

and if you dont have a vise, you can try securing the tool in place with a C-clamp or similar. Then give it hell with a gigantic pipe wrench!

[charliedid]

Also, remember the drive side cup on Merlin's is English thread, so you turn it clockwise to loosen it.

Squirt it daily with Liquid Wrench or Kroil then rap the axle with a hammer in all directions for several minutes to help the penetrant do its thing. If you can't free it, spray more and let it sit overnight.

Peer down the seat tube. If there's an access hole into the BB area, buy penetrant in a bottle and pour it down there to flood the area. Leave it there.

You could buy dry ice from any place that sells bottled gases. Wear gloves, and pack the area. Let it sit for an hour and see if that breaks the bond.

Your last option is to drill it out. Drill holes around the axle until it frees. Remove it and use a hacksaw to carefully saw out the rings.

My buddy had this problem with a Campy crank in a Merlin. Removal wasn't pretty or easy.

Nice

Dry ice shrinks it a bit?

[slambers3]

I've found that in this scenario, using a new good quality BB tool from the beginning helps- fresh sharp edges prevent stripping of the splines on the BB. If using leverage (big cheater bar or frame for leverage) make sure tool is bolted firmly to BB axle. It will come out with careful application of force. An impact attack might help, as may heat but I'd be very careful with that.

[Gummee]

Tune ups in my last shop included removing and greasing BBs for this very reason.

There were some that I had to put the bike on it's wheels, break out the cheater bar and stand/bounce on the cheater bar to get things to move. Having an EVT stand really helped with that.

I haven't tried it, but I've been told a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF work better than the penetrating oils in cans

Good luck!

M

[jtakeda]

I’ve had very good luck with PB Blaster penetrating spray. Readily available at Home Depot or Lowes. Realize rust may not be the issue but rather galvanic corrosion. With that said, I’ve had good luck with Blaster on all types of metals. Spray it in and let it soak for a good while, preferably overnight.

Blaster has allowed me to save parts that appeared to be hopelessly fused.

And as mentioned, a long breaker bar is key. I’d also try heat. And lots of patience.

+1. Spray some panther piss down there a couple times a day and pray

[tctyres]

I haven't tried it, but I've been told a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF work better than the penetrating oils in cans


I tried this. It turns out that acetone and ATF are not immiscible, so you wind up with a mess of the two. I do not recommend it.

PBlaster is the thing to use, or whatever you already have.
Soak the bb from the seat tube downward.

Also, I tried the dry ice trick on a stuck seat post last month --- no dice. If there is corrosion between the bb and the shell, it needs penetrant in there to loosen it.

[oldpotatoe]

I've found that in this scenario, using a new good quality BB tool from the beginning helps- fresh sharp edges prevent stripping of the splines on the BB. If using leverage (big cheater bar or frame for leverage) make sure tool is bolted firmly to BB axle. It will come out with careful application of force. An impact attack might help, as may heat but I'd be very careful with that.

Campag cups..no crank axle in there...above for sure with non-external bearing BBs, like Octalink, square taper, ISIS, etc..

[slambers3]

Campag cups..no crank axle in there...above for sure with non-external bearing BBs, like Octalink, square taper, ISIS, etc..

Re-read OP's post. he said he's replacing square taper record with UT. Shimano BB.

all of this implies non-external cups, which would have a square taper axle.

[oldpotatoe]

Re-read OP's post. he said he's replacing square taper record with UT. Shimano BB.

all of this implies non-external cups, which would have a square taper axle.

My face..yup, get one of those tools that holds tool to axle inside cups..thence into vice, turn frame.

[loxx0050]

Have you tried heat yet? Since it is a metal frame I'd be willing to use heat gun on it to see if it helps loosen things up.

I've in the past working my cars used a blow torch to loosen up pesky bolts. But I'd hesitate to use a torch on a bike frame and instead opt for a heat gun instead.

[KidWok]

My pry bar is just a section of steel fence pole with some inner tube wrapped around it as a grip. Has loosened up many a bottom bracket. Yes...definitely recommend finding some way to bolt on the BB tool to the cup for a nice snug fit. I typically use the handle loop of my Park chain splitter and the crank bolt to attach the BB tool.

Tai

[Dude]

This is like that scene in Airplane where the woman is freaking out and there is a line with increasingly painful and "effective" methods of calming her down.

Anyway, these bbs suck to get out. For some reason, the ds threads stop about 2mm from the lip of the cup leaving a gap. In that gap, all sorts of water/corrosion forms and usually builds up pressure when trying to remove the bb.

Assuming you've removed the NDS cup first and after you've tried all of the penetrants you can find AND you've ensured that the splined tool (make sure you are using the campy specific one) impact wrench can work as can a really long breaker bar. Here's the gotcha, those alum campy cup splines aren't able to take all of that force and can round out. THEN you're in a world of hate.

That's when you have to dismantle the chumpy from the outside.

Good luck and you better post follow ups otherwise we'll hold it against you.

[FlashUNC]

Time to get out the cheater bar:

https://www.math.nyu.edu/~crorres/Archimedes/Lever/LeverMid.gif

[kppolich]

Post some pics of this sucker!

Top youtube hits here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9oIUmdI5JU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOdLdkswzqU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOdLdkswzqU

[fmradio516]

Post some pics of this sucker!

Top youtube hits here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9oIUmdI5JU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOdLdkswzqU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOdLdkswzqU

Man, now i REALLY want an impact wrench.... and the part numbers of all the pieces needed for the modified sheldon brown tool.

[Gsinill]

If nothing else works, this will:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2012332&postcount=15

full thread here (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2012332#post2012332).

https://i.postimg.cc/tJxR2Jd2/BB-removal.png

[chismog]

Just spat out my beer. :)

+1. Spray some panther piss down there a couple times a day and pray

[pdonk]

I know what I am going to be doing soon - bb removal from all of my bikes.

I know the old aluminum cups on my brodie's cook bros bb will not come out, fortunately the bearings press in from the outside.

[fmradio516]

I know what I am going to be doing soon - bb removal from all of my bikes.


+1 except my Bottecchia. with that one, i leave the fixed cup in and repack the grease from the non-drive side. That drive side cup has been in there for a while.. Dont wanna disturb the italian poltergeist and risk it loosening up again..

[cgolvin]

Good luck and you better post follow ups otherwise we'll hold it against you.


Fair enough; I'm on the road so can't be exhaustive in my recap. Put penetrant in overnight, put the tool (on loan from LBS, not a deep one like OP suggested) in a vice, buddy applied down force while I turned the frame…no budge.

Since I had to leave town I restored the old build and he's going to try a local shop or framebuilder (Stinner). I'm passing back through on my way home Monday so will update after that.

Thanks all.

[cgolvin]

Success! My friend discovered that a former Stinner mechanic had set up shop, and was able to get the BB off in no time (I don't know the details of how).

New crank and BB installed and working well

[Dekonick]

If nothing else works, this will:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2012332&postcount=15

full thread here (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2012332#post2012332).

https://i.postimg.cc/tJxR2Jd2/BB-removal.png

Far cheaper than a new frame. :banana:

[Dekonick]

Success! My friend discovered that a former Stinner mechanic had set up shop, and was able to get the BB off in no time (I don't know the details of how).

New crank and BB installed and working well

:hello::banana: Time to remove and re-install all of the BB's... :eek:

[cgolvin]

:hello::banana: Time to remove and re-install all of the BB's... :eek:


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