OT: traveling to Amsterdam and München/Frankfurt around Christmas

[echappist]

My partner and I are planning to travel to de Nederlands for our honeymoon. We'll have around eight days, arriving in Amsterdam, immediately going to München, coming back to Amsterdam, and then finally heading home before New Year.

Few questions:
-1) Safe neighborhoods to stay? Should I stay within the ring road (A10)? There are a few less expensive options near Apollobuurt (Amsterdam South) and Transvaalbuurt (along the Amstel River). We aren't too concerned about the hotels being slightly further, but we would want to make sure that the place is safe when we get back at 9 in the evening.
-2) How do we hop over to Germany? It was somewhat surprising that a train trip to München would take seven to eight hours, given it's barely more than 800 km away. Even a trip to Frankfurt is 3 hour 50 (avg speed of 120 kph). That's Amtrak speeds! I was expecting something that averages 200 kph. Seems as if flying would be the way to go? We primarily want to visit the Christmas markets and visit one other location before heading back to Amsterdam. If that's all we are interested in, would it be better to just visit Frankfurt?
-3) Would it be remotely advisable to ride outside of town, given the general weather conditions?
-4) Is one single day sufficient for both Utrecht and Den Haag?

Many thanks in advance

[zap]

Fly from Amsterdam to Munich and back. Cost of flights in Europe should not be that much plus you might get a nice piece of chocolate.

Frankfurt.....I would skip. There are some nice towns near Munich so I would spend extra time there vs Frankfurt. Plus if the weather is nice, I would rent a Porsche for a day....the roads around Munich are awesome. Skip the bike.

That's all I got.....my trips to The Netherlands were all business.

[buldogge]

Love Amsterdam...was just there mid-August.

100% stay in De Pijp. Amsterdam is pretty damn safe, all around, I wouldn't worry there...but...stay away from the noise and drunkeness closer to the RLD and Centraal.

De Pijp has good Metro and tram connections, and easy walkability to great restaurants/cafes/(decent) coffee, as well as close to Museumplein and Vondelpark.

Coming from Schiphol, you get off at A'dam Zuid instead and switch to the Metro there...drops you off right in the heart of Di Pijp, by Albert Cuypmarkt.

A buddie's family is really into the whole Xmas market thing...his opinion is that the best markets are close to Munich, but those in and around Koln are quite good, and closer to A'dam. The Dom area is right next to the Haubtbanhof, as well...so nice and easy.

Have fun...
-Mark in St. Louis

[Ken Robb]

The Deutsches Museum in Munich was a big hit for me and the city has more neat places to visit than you could do in a week. That's my only 2 cents of advice. :-)

[buldogge]

Quick info check:

Set before the gothic backdrop of Cologne Cathedral and under the largest Christmas tree in all of the Rhine, is Weihnachtsmarkt Am Kölner Dom – the biggest and most popular Christmas market in Cologne. Explore its glittering wooden pavilions to find handmade gifts including wood carvings, tree decorations and soaps.

With a particular emphasis on regional organic foods, this is a perfect place for foodie travellers. Grab yourself a mug and fill up on gluhwein, before joining in the festivities with song and dance in the streets. There's entertainment provided for all ages, including young ones, who can enjoy a ride on an old-fashioned merry-go-round, or spin their fate on the wheel of fortune.

Elsewhere in the city you'll find the Angel’s Christmas Market, which is renowned as Cologne’s oldest. It features various artisan stalls and mulled wine stands around the shopping district, and has an added sprinkling of magic by angels spreading glitter through alleyways. With a chance of luck, you may even see Santa Clause riding around on a horse.

Other markets worth visiting include the beautiful Old Market Christmas located at the front of the town hall, as well as the Harbour Christmas Market by the chocolate factory.

Christmas cheer runs from: 26 November to 23 December.

-Mark

[BdaGhisallo]

If it's Xmas markets one is looking for, I can't recommend Vienna and Salzburg enough. Beautiful cities, lovely people, great markets and fantastic food.

[paredown]

Quick info check:

Set before the gothic backdrop of Cologne Cathedral and under the largest Christmas tree in all of the Rhine, is Weihnachtsmarkt Am Kölner Dom – the biggest and most popular Christmas market in Cologne. Explore its glittering wooden pavilions to find handmade gifts including wood carvings, tree decorations and soaps.

With a particular emphasis on regional organic foods, this is a perfect place for foodie travellers. Grab yourself a mug and fill up on gluhwein, before joining in the festivities with song and dance in the streets. There's entertainment provided for all ages, including young ones, who can enjoy a ride on an old-fashioned merry-go-round, or spin their fate on the wheel of fortune.

Elsewhere in the city you'll find the Angel’s Christmas Market, which is renowned as Cologne’s oldest. It features various artisan stalls and mulled wine stands around the shopping district, and has an added sprinkling of magic by angels spreading glitter through alleyways. With a chance of luck, you may even see Santa Clause riding around on a horse.

Other markets worth visiting include the beautiful Old Market Christmas located at the front of the town hall, as well as the Harbour Christmas Market by the chocolate factory.

Christmas cheer runs from: 26 November to 23 December.

-Mark
This is a good idea--in fact, unless you have a compelling reason to get to Munich, I would hit Cologne, Aachen, Dusseldorf and/or Bonn. (Bonn is not much, but there is a great German History museum), Dusseldorf has the Museums Insel (and others) and Aachen Cathedral/old town is amazing. Many of the other river towns are worth a visit as well...

The Cologne Cathedral/Christmas Market is great; there is not much 'old town' left, but there is some great shopping close to the Cathedral.

If you were not averse, you can easily drive between these cities or take the train...

As for weather--it will be about like Seattle in winter--40ish, gray, drizzling, or light snow or threatening....

[Gsinill]

Agreed, skip Frankfurt, waste of time, especially in December.
I would play it by ear: if there is snow in the forecast, take the train or fly to Munich, otherwise rent a nice car and experience the Autobahn.
Chances for rideable (i.e. enjoyable) conditions are fairly slim at that time of the year.
Christmas markets rock!
Munich and surrounding towns have tons of them and probably some of the best in Germany.

Drive down to Schloss Neuschwanstein which is close.

https://i.redd.it/pqzjbu3e5a321.jpg

And then of course there is this, I am sure you don't want to miss that one ;)

https://img.fcbayern.com/image/fetch/f_auto,h_768,q_auto:good,w_1366/https://fcbayern.com/binaries/content/gallery/allianz-arena/arena-aussenbilder/sonderbeleuchtung-geburtstag_2.jpg/sonderbeleuchtung-geburtstag_2.jpg/fcbhippo%3Axtralargesixteentonine%3Fv%3D1519641252 182

[polyhistoric]

Just came back from a visit to Amsterdam with some time in Germany and Belguim. We stayed in Haarlem, which is lovely and a destination of its own (brewery in an old church!). I think the train ride in to Amsterdam Central was only 25 mins and regular like clockwork. Did a road ride with a rental from Maats.cc - they weren't kidding about the wind!

We rented a car to drive through Maastricht and Aachen before heading in to Monschau for a couple days (apparently one of Germany's top xmas towns). It was cute/historic, with some great hiking in the area. I am a big fan of driving through other countries. The total drive was a little over 3 hours. Cologne was only another hour.

[martl]

About Munich:

- Safe places to stay? Everywhere :p this ain't Cleveland. I go everywhere, any time without a worry, as does my attractive 22-year old niece.
For logistical reasons, try to get one of the countless hotels downtown, preferrably Marienplatz/Viktualienmarkt area. To get around, public transport is good, safe and reliable. They sell day passes. Many hotels also offer bikes, and in Munich, thats the best form of transport.

- Travel to? I agree, if you get an inexpensive flight, it beats the railway. Although the trainride may be nice, the ICE (german TGV without the actual speed..) route goes along the Rhine Valley and passes numerous castles and the Loreley Rock, it isd considered one of the most scenic railway routes in the world.

https://www.adac.de/-/media/images/motorwelt/bahnstrecke-deutschland-2018-loreley-rhein-720x540.jpg

- places to see?
Eisbach small river surfers (its like a 10min walk from city center and yes, they *will* be there around Xmas too)

https://p5.focus.de/img/fotos/crop206415/3493102112-cfreecrop-w1280-h720-ocx0_y0-q75-p5/eisbach.jpg

Deutsches Museum - its now split up and distributed all over the city. The traffic department has some one-of-a-kind pieces, the Aircraft dept. too is well worth a visit

Allianz Arena imo is quite boring when empty and well away from anything else attractive (situated between a cloverleaf interchange and a landfill). There is a Bayern München home match on 21.12 though, it will be reported as sold out (they all are) but it is always possible to grab one or two tickets at the grey market outside, if you're wiling to spend 40-80€ on a ticket.

The "BMW World" seems to be endlessly attractive to tourists, so if you want to spend time in an overblown car dealership, welcome ;) - The museum is good, though.
The 1972 Olympic venues are near and are a unique landscaping ensemble still breathtaking today. Best view over the city from the top of the hill!

https://www.ikeda-in-munich.com/uploads/1/1/7/0/117054030/olympiadach_orig.jpg

- Christmas Markets are all around the city, the biggest one (quite a treaditional one) is right in front of the townhall at the Marienplatz, buy a Bratwurst and some hot wine punch, but it pays to go explore; The one at Odeonsplatz/Marstall (5min walk away) is quite charming and expands into the backyards of the old king's residence ("Residenz") which also holds a museum presenting the jewelry of one of the longest-reigning dynasties of europe.

- Art: There is an area with several art museums which include one for old masters (alte Pinakothek - has a beuatiful Da Vinci :D), 19th century art ("neue Pinakothek"), the "Museum Brandhorst" for contemporary art, which has works by Cy Wombly, Warhol, Beuys etc.
The "Lembachhaus", also located there, has the most complete collection of the "Blaue Reiter" Movement - Kandinsky, Franz Marc.

The vicinity of Munich holds the world famous Kings castles, Neuschwanstein has been mentioned, Linderhof is possibly even more beautiful, and it's close (they all are Replicas built by a madman in the 19th mind you). Conveniently, these are all close to the alps and one can combine that with a trip to Garmisch and the Zugspitze area, or the lakes south of the city.

https://www.travelbook.de/data/uploads/2017/06/21820660_a2a3912372.jpg

PS:
Eat/drink: Skip the "Hofbräuhaus" which is a veritable tourist trap. Go to one of the other Inns nearby, my tip is the "Weisses Bräuhaus" right next to Marienplatz. If you have time to spare, having breakfast in the Cafe Altschwabing/Schellingstrasse will let you breathe the spirit of the Schwabing artists scene of the early 20th century like nothing else!

https://muenchen.mitvergnuegen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/05/Bildschirmfoto-2016-05-23-um-15.42.12-600x338.png

[echappist]

Thanks to everyone for chiming in!!! Really helpful advice. This will be the first real overseas travel for both of us, so quite a bit to learn.

While I think we'll most likely fly, I'd like to learn a bit more about the rental car thing. Two things I'm apprehensive about are: a) high nightly garage fees and b) moving violations for entering the wrong parts of town (as in, accidentally drive down a car-free neighborhood). Neither of us speaks German, so we'd have to rely solely on Google maps, and that's not very reassuring.

Love Amsterdam...was just there mid-August.

100% stay in De Pijp. Amsterdam is pretty damn safe, all around, I wouldn't worry there...but...stay away from the noise and drunkeness closer to the RLD and Centraal.

De Pijp has good Metro and tram connections, and easy walkability to great restaurants/cafes/(decent) coffee, as well as close to Museumplein and Vondelpark.

Coming from Schiphol, you get off at A'dam Zuid instead and switch to the Metro there...drops you off right in the heart of Di Pijp, by Albert Cuypmarkt.

A buddie's family is really into the whole Xmas market thing...his opinion is that the best markets are close to Munich, but those in and around Koln are quite good, and closer to A'dam. The Dom area is right next to the Haubtbanhof, as well...so nice and easy.

Have fun...
-Mark in St. Louis


This is a good idea--in fact, unless you have a compelling reason to get to Munich, I would hit Cologne, Aachen, Dusseldorf and/or Bonn. (Bonn is not much, but there is a great German History museum), Dusseldorf has the Museums Insel (and others) and Aachen Cathedral/old town is amazing. Many of the other river towns are worth a visit as well...

The Cologne Cathedral/Christmas Market is great; there is not much 'old town' left, but there is some great shopping close to the Cathedral.

If you were not averse, you can easily drive between these cities or take the train...

As for weather--it will be about like Seattle in winter--40ish, gray, drizzling, or light snow or threatening....

Köln is definitely a good suggestion. Were we able to leave earlier, we'd probably spend more time in that area (and catch a Dortmund match while we were at it).

Really can't wait to try out real glühwein. I actually tried making it at home, but nothing beats the true ambience. Besides, my partner really loves her marzipan stöllens and other German desserts, so it'd be really nice to get some freshly made ones (vs the ones we get from Trader Joe's/Aldi/Lidl)

If it's Xmas markets one is looking for, I can't recommend Vienna and Salzburg enough. Beautiful cities, lovely people, great markets and fantastic food.


Agreed, skip Frankfurt, waste of time, especially in December.
I would play it by ear: if there is snow in the forecast, take the train or fly to Munich, otherwise rent a nice car and experience the Autobahn.
Chances for rideable (i.e. enjoyable) conditions are fairly slim at that time of the year.
Christmas markets rock!
Munich and surrounding towns have tons of them and probably some of the best in Germany.

Drive down to Schloss Neuschwanstein which is close.

https://i.redd.it/pqzjbu3e5a321.jpg

And then of course there is this, I am sure you don't want to miss that one ;)

https://img.fcbayern.com/image/fetch/f_auto,h_768,q_auto:good,w_1366/https://fcbayern.com/binaries/content/gallery/allianz-arena/arena-aussenbilder/sonderbeleuchtung-geburtstag_2.jpg/sonderbeleuchtung-geburtstag_2.jpg/fcbhippo%3Axtralargesixteentonine%3Fv%3D1519641252 182

Unfortunately, we'll probably need to save Austria for another trip; and given the helpful info here, probably need to shelve trip to Bavaria as well. Three days just doesn't seem to do Bavaria/Austria justice.

Also, @Gsinill, I'll see you an Arroganz Arena and raise you a Südtribüne :p

https://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-852463-860_poster_16x9-brcr-852463.jpg

Speaking of which, man it may be a long season, yet again... Barça comes to town next week, and there's no defensive mid to hold down the fort.

About Munich:

- Safe places to stay? Everywhere :p this ain't Cleveland. For logistical reasons, try to get one of the countless hotels downtown, preferrably Marienplatz/Viktualienmarkt area. To get around, public transport is good, safe and reliable. They sell day passes. Many hotels also offer bikes, and in Munich, thats the best form of transport.

- Travel to? I agree, if you get an inexpensive flight, it beats the railway. Although the trainride may be nice, the ICE (german TGV without the actual speed..) route goes along the Rhine Valley and passes numerous castles and the Loreley Rock, it isd considered one of the most scenic railway routes in the world.

https://www.adac.de/-/media/images/motorwelt/bahnstrecke-deutschland-2018-loreley-rhein-720x540.jpg

- places to see?
Eisbach small river surfers (its like a 10min walk from city center and yes, they *will* be there around Xmas too)

https://p5.focus.de/img/fotos/crop206415/3493102112-cfreecrop-w1280-h720-ocx0_y0-q75-p5/eisbach.jpg

Deutsches Museum - its now split up and distributed all over the city. The traffic department has some one-of-a-kind pieces, the Aircraft dept. too is well worth a visit

Allianz Arena imo is quite boring when empty and well away from anything else attractive (situated between a cloverleaf interchange and a landfill). There is a Bayern München home match on 21.12 though, it will be reported as sold out (they all are) but it is always possible to grab one or two tickets at the grey market outside.

The "BMW World" seems to be endlessly attractive to tourists, so if you want to spend time in an overblown car dealership, welcome ;) - The museum is good, though.
The 1972 Olympic venues are near and are a unique landscaping ensemble still breathtaking today. Best view over the city from the top of the hill!

https://www.ikeda-in-munich.com/uploads/1/1/7/0/117054030/olympiadach_orig.jpg

- Christmas Markets are all aroundf the city, the bifggest one is right in front of the townhall at the Marienplatz, but it pays to go explore; The one at Odeonsplat (5min walk away) is quite charming and expands into the yeards ogf the old king's residence ("Residenz") which also holds a museum with the jewelry of one of ther longest-reigning dynasties of europe

- Art: There is an area with several art museums which include the "Museum Brandhorst" for contemporary art. Works by Cy Wombly, Warhol, Beuys etc.
The "Lembachhaus" has the most complete collection of the "Blaue Reiter" Movement - Kandinsky, Franz Marc.

The vicinity of Munich holds the world famous Kings castles, Neuschwanstein has been mentioned, Linderhof is possibly even more beautiful (they all are Replicas built by a madman in the 19th mind you).

Thank you

By the time we get to Germany, the Bundesliga will be on winter break, so we'll miss the games. Come to think of it, I think the museums are closed on Christmas Eve as well, so we may miss that.

[martl]

Come to think of it, I think the museums are closed on Christmas Eve as well, so we may miss that.

be aware that all Christmas markets end on the night of the 23rd/morning 24th! and have a nice trip!

[Johnnysmooth]

Amsterdam is safe and would stay in heart of city in a small B&B along Prinsengracht canal - close to Vondelpark and major museums. While there be sure to get over to Jordaan, where there is a wonderful organic farmer's market and better yet, the best apple cake (get it with cream and coffee - viola, best breakfast ever).

As others have stated, avoid Frankfurt - very blah.

Munchen is the "capital" of Bavaria and a great city to visit. Koln is also lovely.

Have not experienced the Christmas Markets of either but did spend a yr in Vienna and can't recommend it enough for anytime of year. Has plenty of Christmas Markets as well (claims to be the city that founded the tradition ages ago), is the cultural hub of central/eastern Europe and absolutely a wonderful caffe culture.

[Buzz]

Did a version of this Christmas time trip with my family. We started in Munich. Then 2.5 hour train to Salzburg. Fantastic time in Salzburg. Great Christmas market, cozy atmosphere, etc etc etc. beautiful setting that is easy to get around. We lucked out with fresh snow everyday. Winter wonderland.

Then made our way to Florence and Verona. Lots of Christmas cheer all the way around. Memorable trip. Top two photos are Salzburg. Bottom one is Verona.

Great time of year to travel in Europe. Have a great trip!