Has anybody bought a new bike and hated it , had guts to admit that

[Smiley]

Just curious, seems like many here buy a new frame swear by it and then months later its dumped for some odd reason . Lets just admit it that sometimes we can't bring ourselves to admit that there was better sliced bread out there to be had. Nothing wrong with buying and owning new bikes but sometimes we can't admit that each and every bike out there is not the greatest no matter how much we want that to be true. As they say YMMV , how true it is.

[manet]

finish your tale smiley...

[merckx]

613. Yuck. I knew right away. Should have know better.

[Blastinbob]

Are don't like and hate the same?

[shinomaster]

I think I posted once about a bike I wasn't so hot about...It didn't make me any friends atmo.

[Ginger]

Are don't like and hate the same?


"Hate (I Really Don't Like You)" -- Plain white Ts

Love love love love love love

You were everything I wanted
You were everything a girl could be
Then you left me brokenhearted
Now you don't mean a thing to me

All I wanted was your
Love love love love love love

Hate is a strong word
But i really, really, really don't like you
Now that it's over
I don't even know what I liked about you
Brought you around and you just brought me down
Hate is a strong word
But I really, really, really don't like you
I really don't like you

Thought that everything was perfect (perfect)
Isn't that how it's supposed to be?
Thought you thought that I was worth it
Now I think a little differently

All I wanted was your
Love love love love love love

Hate is a strong word
But i really, really, really don't like you
Now that it's over
I don't even know what I liked about you
Brought you around and you just brought me down
Hate is a strong word
But I really, really, really don't like you
I really don't like you

Now that it's over you can't hurt me
Now that it's over you can't bring me down

Oh oh oh oh oh oh
Oh oh oh oh oh oh

All I wanted was your
Love love love love love love

(Hate) Hate is a strong word
But I really, really, really don't like you (I really don't like you)
Now that it's over
I don't even know what I liked about you (liked about you)
Brought you around and you just brought me down
(Hate) Hate is a strong word
But I really, really, really don't like you
(Oh oh oh oh oh oh)
I really don't like you
(Oh oh oh oh oh oh)
I really don't like you
(Oh oh oh oh oh oh)
I really don't like you
(Oh oh oh oh oh oh)

[Lanternrouge]

I can't say that I hated it, but I had a custom Ti that just didn't fit me right. Other than the fit, I loved the thing. It was the only bike I had for which I paid FFR (Full F___ Retail).

I had some others that were just ok bikes in terms of fit, ride quality, etc. The end result of all of these experiences was that I wound up selling and eventually putting the money into a bike I eventually liked much better.

[big shanty]

My mountain bike got stolen in college and I spent the insurance money on a full-suspension Cannondale. It was a bona fide turd of a bicycle. I eBayed it for $750 + shipping last year to some weirdo in Las Vegas. Proof that miracles do happen!

[manet]

... I eBayed it for $750 + shipping last year to some weirdo in Las Vegas...

.

[keno]

there was that beta ti in your life. I'll admit it for you.

keno

[manet]

there was that beta ti in your life. I'll admit it for you.

keno

my art school didn't have friggin fraternities.

[zank]

My K2 Razorback Team SL in 01. I joined their regional team. I knew from the first ride it wasn't the bike for me. Dumped it quick and went back to racing in my NCC kit on my hardtail.

[djg]

finish your tale smiley...

Yeah, tell it like it is Smiley, and remember: cruel to be kind, etc.

[chuckred]

that keeps me riding what I know I like for years on end and turns me into a luddite. Then I try something new and love it (hopefully!).

[SoCalSteve]

Unlike most, I wasnt so thrilled with my C 50 and sold it after a few hundred miles. I bought it new (as a size 65 C 50 doesnt come on the 2nd hand market very often). I took a nice little beating on the sale of that one. (that will teach me to buy new)

It was a size 65cm and I felt it was just too flexy for my 6' 5" 245 lbs.

I am sure your results will vary.

Oh yeah, my Calfee Luna Pro was the same way and I sold that after about a thousand miles of riding.

I guess long carbon fiber tubing, lugged construction and big guys just dont mix well.

I hope to have better luck with my Colnago Carbonissimo..Not a lug to be found. A pure monocoque (sp) frame.

Steve

[shinomaster]

my art school didn't have friggin fraternities.

Art school? Which one?

[David Kirk]

I had one of the first year Cannondales.

Not good.

Dave

[vandeda]

Absolutely. loved it at first, but slowly began to hate it for various reasons after a few months and a couple hundred miles. sometimes big bucks doesn't buy you something better.

d

[manet]

Art school? Which one?

the harvard of art schools _ or so lee hall used to say

[shinomaster]

My caad4 is a treat and a half.

[vaxn8r]

I think I posted once about a bike I wasn't so hot about...It didn't make me any friends atmo.
Heh...ditto.

[slowgoing]

Absolutely. loved it at first, but slowly began to hate it for various reasons after a few months and a couple hundred miles. sometimes big bucks doesn't buy you something better.

d

+1.

Shimmy will do that.

[shinomaster]

the harvard of art schools _ or so lee hall used to say

L'Ecole Des Beaux arts in Paris? ATMO?

[vandeda]

+1.

Shimmy will do that.

Or missed design. It's OK if you have the money to try again as many here do, but stinks when you don't. I'm thankful and grateful that I love my other bikes, even if they are nothing special.

[manet]

L'Ecole Des Beaux arts in Providence? ATMO?

oui, oui

[shinomaster]

No? R.I.S.D? Do you know Ben Ryterband? atmo?

[FierteTi52]

Yes, you don't always win with a custom frame.:beer:
Jeff

[shinomaster]

Or those crazy Ferengi ears!!!

[manet]

No? R.I.S.D? Do you know Ben Ryterband? atmo?

MFA 1983 painting.

him? no. did he have a sister at brown...

[FierteTi52]

Hey Shino,
Don't pick on my avatar LOL

[shinomaster]

He was my ceramics prof at Mass Art. He got his MFA in Ceramics @ RISD in ....um...I think it was before 83...maybe 70s?

[eddief]

with a pure custom. great fit. not a great ride. great vendor. i love a money back guarantee. took it back no questions asked.

[big shanty]

.

yeah, that might be the guy!!! Thanks, freak! enjoy your headshock-ed turd!!

[William]

RISD

Skunkbird

Nice bike

Fitter sucked

My mileage varied


William

[Fat Robert]

csi

great workmanship

position it was designed around was stupid

i didn't understand some things about geo when i signed the build sheet

[soulspinner]

Colnago Masterlight-too big and still a bit on the stiff riding side...still own it, a relative thats larger than I am has it.

[vandeda]

position it was designed around was stupid

i didn't understand some things about geo when i signed the build sheet

When paying an "expert" to do the fitting and design, why must the customer be their design checker? I would imagine that a *lot* of people don't know anything about geometry, and now you have that poor clueless person say "yeah, this is OK". If it turns out wrong or bad, you can then blame the clueless customer, who originally hired the fitter because they're supposedly an expert, for signing off on the bad build. That just sounds like a really bad idea. Imagine if other businesses took that approach, like pharmaceutical or engineering firms.

[Elefantino]

Bianchi, the RC Boron XL w/Chorus.

Had always wanted a Bianchi. It was an homage to my dad, whose first bike was a Bianchi. Thought I'd love it.

One 80-mile ride later, it was on eBay.

Live and learn.

[saab2000]

This is why I went back to stock bikes and am now going to be ultra cautious if I get anothe custom. Or if I do I will do what has been mentioned here before - give the builder the contact points and let them work the rest out.

[Steelhead]

When paying an "expert" to do the fitting and design, why must the customer be their design checker? I would imagine that a *lot* of people don't know anything about geometry, and now you have that poor clueless person say "yeah, this is OK". If it turns out wrong or bad, you can then blame the clueless customer, who originally hired the fitter because their supposedly an expert, for signing off on the bad build. That just sounds like a really bad idea. Imagine if other businesses took that approach, like pharmaceutical or engineering firms.

This is why I am excited that I'll be using a certified Serotta fit technician right here in Austin come tax return time! :banana:

[Ray]

Oh yeah, interesting to see what stands the test of time. So far, of the twenty plus bikes I've bought over the past ten years or so, four have lasted more than five years. Some of the one's that got away were not particularly expensive bikes, and none were by the standards of a lot of bikes on this forum, but there were several very nice bikes in that group that just didn't work for me on one level or another. In the group of bikes that didn't last more than a year or two were a Litespeed, a Merckx, a couple of Rivendells, a couple of Herons, a couple of fairly high-end Specialized (one road, one mountain), and several others. The bikes that have lasted have been from the Riv family (one Riv Road, recently departed but my number one road bike for many years, and my Rambouillet currently wearing fixed gear parts), two custom Spectrums (one of these is still too new to say its stood the test of time, but I strongly suspect it's gonna), and an old Bianchi that was my fixie for several years but is no longer in my stable.

So, yeah, every bike feels good for the first several rides when you're pumped about owning it and riding a new bike. But within a few months, the true characteristics / compatibility come to the fore and sometimes you just have to admit that this one just gets chalked up as part of the learning process. A lot of that has nothing to do with the quality of the bike or the expertise of the fit as much as the individual learning more about what he or she likes and learning to be honest with ourselves. I've had a couple of very nice touring bikes, for example, that there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with, but I learned through time and experience that I don't much like heavily loaded touring and those bikes aren't much fun to ride if they're not loaded up. Similarly, I found that I just don't much like pure racing bikes no matter how nice - I don't sit on or ride a bike in a way that gets the most out of the standard racing geometry.

You live, you learn.

-Ray

[TimD]

Trek 5000, my first new bike of the 'modern era'. Took me a while to figure it out. First, Trek's idea of 62cm is about 2.5 cm different from everyone else's. Second, the bike had intermittent death wobble above 35 MPH. Ultimately replaced it with a Legend Ti.

I have to give credit to the shop, they sold what they had.

[Bruce K]

1. My first RedLine cross bike.

Hated it from the get go. Always thought it was 1 size too small. I replaced it with the Cannondale that is now my son's. I never hated the C'dale, just never really loved it like I do the Concours CX.


2. Santa Cruz Heckler MTB. Felt like a tank. Replaced it with a Superlight which was much better.

3. My son's Ridley road bike (which he loves). test rode that baby 1 time and will never get on it again. I don't know why he likes bikes that stiff, but he does.

BK

[stevep]

3. My son's Ridley road bike (which he loves). test rode that baby 1 time and will never get on it again. I don't know why he likes bikes that stiff, but he does.

BK

hes a kid, he has no brains.

[mflaherty37]

I had a cannodale Optimo cross bike that I hated. After drinking 1/2 bottle of wine on a cold white winter day I went to the bike store and purchased it. I have no trouble admitting - it rode like a toilet bowl. The fork vibrated terrible under braking. I ebayed it the next fall during cross season. :beer:

[J.Greene]

IF Crown Jewel. Something about it's alignment coupled with my alignment caused me knee pains. Since selling it the knee has not hurt since. The Frame was built for interbike, so I have always wondered if they built it quickly just to get something out the door in a certain time frame.

JG

[gt6267a]

1) lemond zurich. i rode it for about 3 months. it never really fit right.

2) cannondale crit 3.0. a story of sorts here. i bought this in high school and loved it. rode it daily for many summers and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. in my late 20's i got back on a bike after a few years of desk jockeying. i was 40 lbs heavier. the once great cdale now sucked something fierce. i sold it a long time ago.

[aLexis]

This is why I am excited that I'll be using a certified Serotta fit technician right here in Austin come tax return time! :banana:

I sure hope you find a good one. ;)

[William]

csi

great workmanship

position it was designed around was stupid

i didn't understand some things about geo when i signed the build sheet

I don't want to turn this into a another debate about fitters but since it's come up and been commented on already: IMO it's the "certified" fitters job to find the proper geo (or get very close) using the fit bike and any other tools at their disposal. Most people don't know a lot about bike geo and that's what fitters claim to help people find. In my own case, I freely admit that I didn't know a lot about bike geometry then (and I'm not an expert now), that's why a "certified" fitter drove down with a Serotta fit bike in tow to do the measurements at the LBS where I paid for them (who was a certified dealer at the time). When I received them (ended up with two), all I knew was that they were better then the undersized Fuji that I had been racing on, but I had no benchmark to compare them too to. I kicked butt on these and the workmanship was top notch Serotta.The longer I rode, and the more I learned about bikes and bike fit, the more I realized something was amiss. I had other bikes as well but they were stock sizes made to fit me with long stems and super long seat posts due to my size. It wasn't until I Mike built my Effin Zanconato that I got to feel what a truly dialed in fit felt like. In this case, the builder measured me in person, watched me ride, and got a feel for my "wants" in a bike. What I got was perfect IMO. The "certified" fitter did the same, but totally different outcome.

Random comments I've heard about this subject:

"Your riding position probably changed over the years."

I don't believe so, my position has remained basically unchanged from my racing days except for toying with longer stems (from 120 to 130). All the extreme setback Hellbent seat post did was get my saddle rails centered on the clamp instead of being jammed all the way back on the more traditional set back posts I've used. Jammed back so far that the edges of the clamps stuck out slightly were the saddle narrowed and occasionally rubbed through my shorts.

"You signed the build sheet".

Irrelevant IMO. I signed onto what the "certified" fitter claimed was an ideal set up for my size and measurements. To claim that it was because you signed the build sheet ignores the fact that the fitter gaffed the geometry. The advertised expertise is to be able to properly fit you.

"You should know what you want before you go custom."

Why? The fact is that most people know very little about bike geometry. The builder does...and that is the void the fitter claims to fill. In the case of very tall folks like myself, there is no option out there for "riding until" we know what we want. It's either a skewed perception riding bikes that are too small, or go custom.


Again, I know there are good fitters out there (and on the forum) who have a good success rate. But there are also people who have had bad fits out there (and here) as well. My own personal feeling is that you need to work as close to the builder as possible. Working with a middle man increases the chances that something can go wrong. When I've commented on this before, I am told about the success rate of the "program" in fitting bikes. That's all well and good, but that still means there are a percentage of people for whom it didn't work, and to them the success rate is irrelevant.

To sum up:

Serotta craftsmanship first rate.

Serotta fitter gaffed measurements for my specs.

Don't blame yourself because you signed a build sheet based on a fitters recommendation...unless you supplied the specs yourself.

These are my thoughts and feelings, Yours may vary.


William

[davids]

I only made one serious bike-buying mistake, and I was 9 years old at the time. I fell in love with this:

http://www.mvvcc.org.uk/features/cycles/images/choppermk1.jpg

I swore to my parents I would love it forever! And they, worn down by my constant begging, bought it for me. And I loved it. For about a year. And then, all of a sudden, I saw it was a ridiculous kid's bike. I wanted a real, grown-up racing bike. But I had to keep riding the thing for 3 more years... And I rode less and less, since I hated the stupid monkey bars, the big cushy seat, the tiny little front wheel...

When I was 14, my grandfather bought me a Motobecane Super Mirage:

http://www.teamkarim.com/bikes/used/images/100405-5.jpg

I've always had at least one road bike ever since, and have never had serious regrets about a purchase - even my Pinarello Asolo, which was a bit big for me.

[atmo]

this one was the original 650B and it never planed well atmo..

[catulle]

A train wreck at 12, atmo...?

[davids]

this one was the original 650B and it never planed well atmo..
Ah, youth.

[znfdl]

I had one of the first year Cannondales.

Not good.

Dave

+1

[Climb01742]

i hated my first ottrott. ben made it right, version 2.0.
csi. nice but sluggish.
IF ti CJ was "mushy".
'nago c50 extreme and cervelo r3 were fine bikes but just didn't quite fit my riding style. obtuse made 'em both right.
time vxs. strangely harsh. vxrs and vxrs ulteam rock my world but vxs is collecting some pricey dust. go figure.
peg luigino. man, that was the one peg that, for me, felt awful. have dug every other peg but one ride on the luigino and it was a goner.
i have lost a painful amount of dough getting educated. or to be honest, more educated. can't decide: is my brain half empty or half full? :rolleyes:

[William]

I only made one serious bike-buying mistake, and I was 9 years old at the time. I fell in love with this:

http://www.mvvcc.org.uk/features/cycles/images/choppermk1.jpg

I swore to my parents I would love it forever! And they, worn down by my constant begging, bought it for me. And I loved it. For about a year. And then, all of a sudden, I saw it was a ridiculous kid's bike. I wanted a real, grown-up racing bike. But I had to keep riding the thing for 3 more years... And I rode less and less, since I hated the stupid monkey bars, the big cushy seat, the tiny little front wheel...

.

OMG!!! Kid Flash back!!!
Riding one of those down a dirt, rock strewn trail...
Downhill....
Gaining speed...
Speed wobbles/shimmy...
Lose control and face plant in the g-g-g-gravel...................






Hello,
This is Aline. I work with William and he's on the floor in the fetal positon muttering something about frame resonance - Mommy - proper geometry - curly fries - and howling like a Basset Hound. So, I'll be closing this post out for him. Thanks for listening.


Aline

[William]

i hated my first ottrott. ben made it right, version 2.0.
csi. nice but sluggish.
IF ti CJ was "mushy".
'nago c50 extreme and cervelo r3 were fine bikes but just didn't quite fit my riding style. obtuse made 'em both right.
time vxs. strangely harsh. vxrs and vxrs ulteam rock my world but vxs is collecting some pricey dust. go figure.
peg luigino. man, that was the one peg that, for me, felt awful. have dug every other peg but one ride on the luigino and it was a goner.
i have lost a painful amount of dough getting educated. or to be honest, more educated. can't decide: is my brain half empty or half full? :rolleyes:

I think there is a difference between "feel" and having to do something funky to make the fit correct.

Just saying....for William.


Aline

[texbike]

Unfortunately the bike that fits closest to this for me was a Serotta Atlanta that I purchased last year. I wouldn't say that it was hated, but it just didn't have the "feel" that I loved so much in a number of my other bikes.

The expectations for the bike were high and while it didn't do anything bad, it just felt "dead" and a bit "blah" to me. A number of different tires and wheelsets were tried which didn't make much of a difference. After awhile I attributed the lack of “feel” to my imagination and continued to ride it on a daily basis.

During that time I was building up an old Telekom MXL. Within the first 50 feet of rolling out of the driveway on the Merckx's inaugural test ride, it was apparent that it had an overabundance of the "feel" and that it hadn't been my imagination with the Serotta.

The Atlanta was sold shortly thereafter.

Texbike

[SPOKE]

the more we learn..............the less we know :crap:

[dirtdigger88]

Smiley- I would say in my case its less about not having the guts to admit it-

but rather having the respect not to b*tch publicly-

think about that one-

Jason

[William]

Smiley- I would say in my case its less about not having the guts to admit it-

but rather having the respect not to b*tch publicly-

think about that one-

Jason

Smiley asked, and people are being honest about their experiences. It's always good to talk about the good (which we do ), the bad (which we are ), and the ugly (which is subjective).

To each his own. atmo.


William

[Ozz]

...think about that one...
I think I got a really nice bike.... ;)

I have no complaints about any of my bikes......I guess I'm lucky.

[djg]

Smiley

I don't doubt that some folks can get defensive about their mistakes --maybe even with themselves-- but I've seen some pretty frank discussion on the board and I reckon it's mostly meant to be forthright. There's likely some self-selection here--board members, probably more than the "typical" cyclist out on the road, tend to have some trial and error experience (in the case of some folks here, quite a bit of expertise) about what it is they like and don't like and, on the assumption that we're capable of learning, that may cut down on the mistakes.

For myself, I don't recall hating a bike I've bought, although I've had a couple of things that didn't work out as well as I would have liked. I spent a season on a Trek 5200 before I realized that it wasn't quite what I wanted. The bike had certain qualities (heck, I was a latecomer to brifters, and those were my first) absent in the very good, but 10 years old, ride it replaced--at first those qualities seemed just awesome, ultimately less so. I moved on, and rightly so, but I don't regard the bike as a disaster and I didn't hate it. I also took a bit of a flyer on a LeMond Fillmore fixie that fit ok, but not great--I knew it was a compromise as neither the 53 nor 55 (56 cm top tube) was exactly what I wanted. In the end, as you know, I moved on, but I got a bunch of good miles on that LeMond before I sold it--IMO, it was a good bike (very good for the money) and, while it wasn't just right for me in the end, I don't even regret having bought it.

It's easy enough to make a mistake about the properties of a model one doesn't know, or (more for some than others) about fit or setup. Different things can go wrong in different ways. And there are all sorts of diagnostic (and sometimes evangelical) posts about what different folks should be riding. But while I believe that some things are better suited to some riders (and rides) than others, and while I definitely believe that the world o' bikes contains the good, the bad, the ugly, and, here and there, the sublime, I don't recall ever having a "hate my bike" experience. Just lucky, maybe.

[chuckred]

When I got my first "big" bike as a kid - tons of anticipation, so excited! First ride, crashed in the first 50 feet... So disappointed - hated the bike! Second try - never looked back! Off and cruising! Loved it!

Fast forward to the last road bike I bought - pro-fitting, semi-custom (i.e. frame was selected based on measurements, stem, bars, cranks all chosen based on measurements, flexibility, etc). Waited for it for a month or so, and again lots of anticipation!

First ride on it, I was expecting instant improvement over what I was riding at the time. Again an initial disappointment - legs seemed weak and powerless, sore, etc. Into the shop to see what they set up wrong. They convinced me my previous ride had been set up incorrectly, and to give it a couple weeks of steady riding to see how it felt then. After adjusting to it, it turned out that the fit really was much better, just needed to get used to it, and thousands of miles later, it still feels great!

[j.p.rich]

2001 Litespeed Vortex 57cm. A PVP quote comes to mind - something about the worst bike in the peloton. A frame that might be one top tube away from being decent. Just stipped the components for a new project.

I'm coming to a similar conclusion over my 2006 Trek 9.8 hardtail. Stiff bottom bracket, stiff (harsh) rear triangle, noodly top tube. Weird handling at times.

[Climb01742]

i think there's a difference between "*****ing" and stating how you liked or didn't like a bike. often, *****ing seems to involve blame. almost all of my "mistakes" were on me, and no one else. my first ottrott was a matter of miscommunication. it fit wonderfully but the ride wasn't what i was hoping for. that miscommunication was equally my fault. that ben made it right says a lot about his integrity.

PS: to decode ***** think female dog. :D

[Waldo]

I went with Grant's sizing recommendation and ended up with a bike waaaaaay too big. All my life I've ridden 60c-c, but Grant wanted me to ride a 63c-t. There was just no way to ride it no-hands. The first time I took my hands off the bars I nearly fell over. Eventually, I learned that the only way to ride no hands was to lean back as far as possible and coast in an almost reclining position. Needless to say, I didn't ride it no-hands very much.

[mike p]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K

3. My son's Ridley road bike (which he loves). test rode that baby 1 time and will never get on it again. I don't know why he likes bikes that stiff, but he does.

BK


I have a ridley scandium and like it lot's but it is the stiffest thing I've ever ridden. My Cadd 8 was a comfy smoothe ride by comparasion.

Mike

[Len J]

i think there's a difference between "*****ing" and stating how you liked or didn't like a bike. often, *****ing seems to involve blame. almost all of my "mistakes" were on me, and no one else. my first ottrott was a matter of miscommunication. it fit wonderfully but the ride wasn't what i was hoping for. that miscommunication was equally my fault. that ben made it right says a lot about his integrity.

PS: to decode ***** think female dog. :D

in my personal experience, every mistake I bought was on me....in most cases I got exactly what I thought I wanted, only to find out I didn't like what I thought i wanted.

Mostly, I didn't know what i didn't know.

Len

[old_school]

Riv Bikes have a strong following, but I just couldn't feel the love.
At least it was easy to sell.

[Fat Robert]

in the inteest of equity:

2001 marinoni leggero: size 60cm. a bike that was way too big, but bought because it allowed me to ride with KOPS (73.5 sta, zero setback post). 120 stem on 58tt. handled like junk -- it was a good bike, but my former boss at a bike shop (not my serotta fitter in 2003 -- note) did a bad bike fit. moved me 2.5cm forward, and 1cm up, and thus I needed a "big" bike to get the reach right. the root and cause of this was:

1997 moser leader: the bike that started it all ("it" being a line of frustrating bikes). my shop boss says "you're 3cm behind the spindle:that's wrong." I take his word for it. he takes me off a 58cm bike with a 72sta, puts me on a 60cm bike with a 74 sta and a 59tt, with a 120 stem. awful. i thought the crappy handling was because i was a crappy bike handler. it was because of crappy bike fit. the moser was a good bike -- meant for someone six foot three....

[scrooge]

You've touched on a lot of the things I've found frustrating about buying custom bikes--mainly, if I've never had a bike that fits, how do I know what a bike that fits is supposed to feel like? What do I know about bike geomotry? What do I know about bike fit? (that's a rhetorical question, but I'll just fill in the blank for you: Nothing.)
Now I have a bike that fits better than the stock models that were set up really goofy. Better. But best? I don't think so. Yet when I go to by another bike (I've gotten a Tandem and an MTB since), they want to base the measurements on my first custom..a viscious circle, I tell ya.'
Now, maybe I'm expecting too much out of a custom builder. Maybe I want them to read my mind. Maybe I hate the ambiguity, the "art side" of bike fitting, and would prefer that it could be narrowed down to a science. Maybe I should educate myself and learn some more about fit(I've tried!). But you get the point, buying custom bikes is a stressful venture for me (I think that's my point, anyway). I can't really afford the trial and error thing, so I'm stuck with what I have. So back to the original question--do I like my bike? I guess (or I'm working on it). Love it? No. But I'm learning to live with it because its the only bike that I have.

end of rant

I don't want to turn this into a another debate about fitters but since it's come up and been commented on already: IMO it's the "certified" fitters job to find the proper geo (or get very close) using the fit bike and any other tools at their disposal. Most people don't know a lot about bike geo and that's what fitters claim to help people find. In my own case, I freely admit that I didn't know a lot about bike geometry then (and I'm not an expert now), that's why a "certified" fitter drove down with a Serotta fit bike in tow to do the measurements at the LBS where I paid for them (who was a certified dealer at the time). When I received them (ended up with two), all I knew was that they were better then the undersized Fuji that I had been racing on, but I had no benchmark to compare them too to. I kicked butt on these and the workmanship was top notch Serotta.The longer I rode, and the more I learned about bikes and bike fit, the more I realized something was amiss. I had other bikes as well but they were stock sizes made to fit me with long stems and super long seat posts due to my size. It wasn't until I Mike built my Effin Zanconato that I got to feel what a truly dialed in fit felt like. In this case, the builder measured me in person, watched me ride, and got a feel for my "wants" in a bike. What I got was perfect IMO. The "certified" fitter did the same, but totally different outcome.

Random comments I've heard about this subject:

"Your riding position probably changed over the years."

I don't believe so, my position has remained basically unchanged from my racing days except for toying with longer stems (from 120 to 130). All the extreme setback Hellbent seat post did was get my saddle rails centered on the clamp instead of being jammed all the way back on the more traditional set back posts I've used. Jammed back so far that the edges of the clamps stuck out slightly were the saddle narrowed and occasionally rubbed through my shorts.

"You signed the build sheet".

Irrelevant IMO. I signed onto what the "certified" fitter claimed was an ideal set up for my size and measurements. To claim that it was because you signed the build sheet ignores the fact that the fitter gaffed the geometry. The advertised expertise is to be able to properly fit you.

"You should know what you want before you go custom."

Why? The fact is that most people know very little about bike geometry. The builder does...and that is the void the fitter claims to fill. In the case of very tall folks like myself, there is no option out there for "riding until" we know what we want. It's either a skewed perception riding bikes that are too small, or go custom.


Again, I know there are good fitters out there (and on the forum) who have a good success rate. But there are also people who have had bad fits out there (and here) as well. My own personal feeling is that you need to work as close to the builder as possible. Working with a middle man increases the chances that something can go wrong. When I've commented on this before, I am told about the success rate of the "program" in fitting bikes. That's all well and good, but that still means there are a percentage of people for whom it didn't work, and to them the success rate is irrelevant.

To sum up:

Serotta craftsmanship first rate.

Serotta fitter gaffed measurements for my specs.

Don't blame yourself because you signed a build sheet based on a fitters recommendation...unless you supplied the specs yourself.

These are my thoughts and feelings, Yours may vary.


William

[PanTerra]

No? R.I.S.D? Do you know Ben Ryterband? atmo?

WOOOHOOO I'm a product of R.I.S.D. :banana: :beer:

[14max]

Riv Bikes have a strong following, but I just couldn't feel the love.
At least it was easy to sell.

Too true. I like the Riv guys and their philosophy struck a note with me but I didn't have a great fit on my Romulus. It was a relaxed ride but overall too hefty and I wanted/want lighter and quicker and, at 61cm, the frame felt a bit too big.

On the flipside, I bought a lighter/quicker bike (Litespeed Firenze) that I like the weight and handling of but the fit isn't perfect.

My Serotta seems to be the best of both worlds. Once I move the Ultegra components from the Litespeed onto the Serotta I plan on selling the 105 group and Firenze frameset...

[vaxn8r]

WOOOHOOO I'm a product of R.I.S.D. :banana: :beer:
Brown Bruin here. Dated a girl from RISD. I don't think we were a good fit but I liked her.

[Ray]

....if I've never had a bike that fits, how do I know what a bike that fits is supposed to feel like? ......Yet when I go to by another bike (I've gotten a Tandem and an MTB since), they want to base the measurements on my first custom..a viscious circle, I tell ya.'
Now, maybe I'm expecting too much out of a custom builder. Maybe I want them to read my mind.
I think this comes down to finding a fitter designer who's work you know/trust based on testimonials, discussions, and basic philosophy. And then you have to TRUST THEM to do what they do. In my case this guy was Tom Kellogg, for others its Richard Sachs or Sacha White or Curt Goodrich or Dave Kirk or Dario, and for many on this board its Smiley or one of the host of other great Serotta fitters.

When TK looked at me on my previous bike(s), he checked out the measurements of the contact points, the geometry of the bike, and how I sat on the bike. And then he asked me a LOT of questions about what I liked and didn't like, what parts of my body felt good when I was riding and what felt bad or even hurt. How do I tend to ride, how much do I ride, what kind of terrain do I ride, etc, etc, etc.? How did I want the new one to ride and handle? - to the best of my ability to describe. Then HE made a lot of judgements about where the contact points should be on the new bike, what the geometry should be for proper weight distribution, for the type of handling I preferred, etc. When he wanted me to try changing my position somewhat for what he thought would be greater efficiency and probably greater comfort as well, he suggested it, we talked about it for a while, and he sent me away to try the new position on an existing bike for a while before committing to a new frame based on that new position.

Bottom line, it has to be a collaborative effort with a lot of communication. They have to assume that you haven't found the *RIGHT* bike yet or you probably wouldn't have come to them in the first place, so there's no point in replicating an existing bike. But using one as a starting point for discussion makes loads of sense. In my case, this process resulted in a bike that rides and handles WAAAAAY better than I had any concept that a bike could ride and handle. Many others have had similarly great experiences, but some haven't. But there's no way I was gonna ever make the judgements about what would result in the bike that I tried to explain I was looking for. It took an expert like Tom/Richard/Smiley etc, etc, etc to make those calls based on whatever I was able to communicate.

-Ray

[jckid]

I've sold a couple of bikes recently, not because anything was wrong with them, but because they just didn't fit. I now have a better understanding of what fits me. Luckily I made money on one and only lost a few hundred on the other.

Years ago I had a Specialized Hard Rock. That was when I first got into mountain biking, and I didn't know any better. The suspension fork on it was complete junk and broke the first time I took it on a rough trail. I ended up replacing every single part on the bike until eventually there was nothing left of the original bike. I learned a real lesson there...Just buy a decent bike to begin with...It's a lot cheaper in the long run!

[Big Dan]

MXL, thought it was going to be better for me than my Corsa. It wasn't..... :(

[93legendti]

Only bike I ever hated was Pantani's 1995 World Championship bike. Thank G-d, I only rode it for a day in Majorca. I don't like my Atlanta or Poprad as much as bikes I bought to replace them (Rapid Tour and Fierte CX), but I don't hate them. Guess I am lucky.

[Cary Ford]

I bought a Torelli, hated it.
I bought a custom made Steelman, hated it.

[vandeda]

.

[vandeda]

A lot of that has nothing to do with the quality of the bike or the expertise of the fit as much as the individual learning more about what he or she likes and learning to be honest with ourselves.
You live, you learn.

-Ray

Ray,

That's exactly what happened with me and my Calfee Dragonfly. I didn't hate the bike by any means as it was a great bike, but after a summer of riding it, I learned that it wasn't my style riding. 90%+ of my riding is commuting/touring purposes these days, and a Calfee just doesn't work for that. Plus its racing geometry wasn't my cup of tea. I think I only put about 1000 or so miles on it before I sold it. Fortunately I bought it used so it wasn't too painful when I sold it.

My other bike was just a small disaster, though I haven't sold it and just use it for a purpose it wasn't intended for.

I'm a fairly relaxed rider, so a slower handling, easy no-hands bike with a good stable geometry wins out any day.

[Larry8]

My legend, why because it proves the problem is the motor (aka me) haha. I bought a Club Fuji bike that had the wrong geometry for me and noodles for tubing, I always felt that all my weight was on the back tire. Getting fit for the Legend was the best choice I made so I didn't go through a lot of wrong bikes.

Larry