Sliding dropouts?

[tuscanyswe]

Hey folks

Not much experience with these things. I know the paragon sliding dropouts as in the pics are available in 142 x 12 and likely most other "standards" as well.

Is there a more neat solution where the brake mounts do not look so hmm out of place or perhaps look more integrated with the frame design is a better word?

I much prefer when the caliper is inside the rear triangle visually. I guess flat mount (if available?) Would make it a bit more tidy?

Are there any other solutions im not aware of for a ti frame?

Cheers


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48675552413_9a24c87e4b.jpg

[SlowPokePete]

Those sliders are the best imo compared to other methods of adjusting chain tension on single speeds or shortening up the rear end...I've had EBB's, rockers, etc.

The brake caliper has to be mounted in a place where it will remain relative to the position of the sliders...

SPP

[73Bronco]

My Trek Checkpoint has exactly what you're describing.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[charliedid]

I think you answered your own question.

Are you looking for a new bike or is the one pictured yours?

[unterhausen]

That's a Paragon slider. They have other options. Unfortunately, it's a bit difficult to visualize from their website. The rocker dropouts mount the caliper inside the triangle.

https://www.paragonmachineworks.com/frame-building-parts/adjustable-dropouts.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=paragon+rocker+dropouts&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS771US771&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Vh4vTDxtMDB0DM%253A%252CHpuhhp1PCIQr1M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kT98UG04lUD3brVNozUgAhHAB9dfw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiXwMbRnLfkAhUBUt8KHSAuA_UQ9QEwA3oECAgQD A#imgrc=GbK_RuhvA1RMzM:&vet=1

I would ask the builder, they may have other options. Black Cat used to sell swinger dropouts like Salsa uses, for example.

[tuscanyswe]

Thanks guys.

So for those who have tried. What is the advantages or dissadvantages of the rocker version vs the pictured one? I think i prefer the rocker dropout just from a visual standpoint but there may be other factors i do not fully understand. I guess they could be slightly harder to set tension with than the ones pictured as per slowpokepetes comment.

Im thinking of also adding the possibility of belt drive on this frame would both be equally suited for such an endevour?

[SlowPokePete]

I had rockers on a Ventana El Comandante that i briefly had and ran single speed.

I guess what I disliked was that the bolts that adjusted the position (vs those that are tightened to keep them in place) butted up against the rear of the frame, and seemed to dig in a little. I also found it a bit more difficult to ensure the wheel was straight compared to the sliders.

neither of these were big things, and I definitely preferred the rockers over the ebb (that was on a Nine One9, my foray into the ss world, which I've since exited).

But I really didn't like the geo of that frame so that may have jaded my opinion a bit.

The rockers, though, were really well made and beautiful on that bike.

SPP

[tigoat]

I do not believe any of those adjustable dropouts is a good design. The reason being that the rear wheel is attached to an extension rather than directly to the frame. From a structural standpoint, that is not an ideal design. They do work so that is probably a good thing. If I have to choose any of them, then I would pick the sliders because these do not alter the position/angle of the frame however you adjust them. If the goal is to build a custom single speed frame then I would have one built precisely for a specific single speed gear ratio with a regular dropout. It can be done as I have a few of them.

[tuscanyswe]

I do not believe any of those adjustable dropouts is a good design. The reason being that the rear wheel is attached to an extension rather than directly to the frame. From a structural standpoint, that is not an ideal design. They do work so that is probably a good thing. If I have to choose any of them, then I would pick the sliders because these do not alter the position/angle of the frame however you adjust them. If the goal is to build a custom single speed frame then I would have one built precisely for a specific single speed gear ratio with a regular dropout. It can be done as I have a few of them.

In this case it would be to try out belt drive so i would need the adjustability for tension.

[p nut]

If aesthetics is #1 priority, nothing beats EBB. Rear end looks neat and tidy.

https://traversbikes.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/angus-29-frame-single-speed-hub-gear.jpg?w=680

http://bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2014-Niner-One-9-RDO-carbon-singlespeed-29er-mtb02.jpg

Some have had issues with some of the more popular EBB designs, i.e. Niner, Bushnell, etc. (I never have). But consensus is, split-shell EBB is fool-proof.

https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/11/Travers-Bikes-Angus-29+-26064_orig-640x358.jpg

Or Blacksheep has an interesting solution:

https://mbaction.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/BlackSheep-4.jpg

By the way, I 100% agree, while sliders work well, they are ugly.

[tigoat]

In this case it would be to try out belt drive so i would need the adjustability for tension.

A chain or a belt should not make a difference in principle. In fact, a belt system might be easier to do with a regular dropout, as it is more forgiving to tension than a chain. You will need to find a builder that can make the chainstay precisely to match the required tension and gear ratio.

[zmalwo]

your bike has the wildest seatstay/chainstay design i've ever seen.

[tuscanyswe]

A chain or a belt should not make a difference in principle. In fact, a belt system might be easier to do with a regular dropout, as it is more forgiving to tension than a chain. You will need to find a builder that can make the chainstay precisely to match the required tension and gear ratio.

Are you sure. According to gates the belt require quite a bit of tensioning when first installing it. They say after this has been achieved you can use a regular drop out with no need to retension after a puncture etc but they are talking about 1 cm or so if my memory serves.

I stumbled upon on this pic. Another potential downfall i had not thought of is the routing of the rear brake. I guess with the solution that seems best (pic in first post) the routing inside or on the chainstay seem hard to achieve gracefully considering it has such a long way to travel after exiting the stay. Guess this is why they choose to come from above like a caliper brake on this mosaic build? hmm


https://dnkjgt41okrad.cloudfront.net/images/fullscreen/77349-dscf9186.jpg

[unterhausen]

I can't imagine a reputable builder trying to hit the exact chainstay length needed for no adjustment. Because it's just not going to work and the owner will be unhappy. Maybe on an experimental bike that is not for sale.

[p nut]

I can't imagine a reputable builder trying to hit the exact chainstay length needed for no adjustment. Because it's just not going to work and the owner will be unhappy. Maybe on an experimental bike that is not for sale.

Even if they could get the C.S. exactly right, it won’t work very well. Chains stretch. I converted one years ago. 33x17 was the right combo. Chain was very tight (almost too tight). By 300 miles, it was flopping around all over the place. Then started experiencing drops.

Plus it pigeonholes you to one gear ratio. I wouldn’t recommend it.

If you want to try it out still, this is the calculator I used

http://www.eehouse.org/fixin/formfmu.php

[p nut]

A chain or a belt should not make a difference in principle. In fact, a belt system might be easier to do with a regular dropout, as it is more forgiving to tension than a chain. You will need to find a builder that can make the chainstay precisely to match the required tension and gear ratio.

In my experience, belts were way more finicky than chains. You had to get the belt tight, but not too tight. Chains are more forgiving.

[fbhidy]

If the goal is to build a custom single speed frame then I would have one built precisely for a specific single speed gear ratio with a regular dropout. It can be done as I have a few of them.

This is crazy, I spent a few years racing SSmtb and SSCX and quite frequently changed my gearing depending on the course. Why would you WANT to limit a bike to the same gearing all the time?

Even more importantly there is ALWAYS this (unless you like to spend $$$ on new chains all.the.time.):
Even if they could get the C.S. exactly right, it won’t work very well. Chains stretch. I converted one years ago. 33x17 was the right combo. Chain was very tight (almost too tight). By 300 miles, it was flopping around all over the place. Then started experiencing drops.

Plus it pigeonholes you to one gear ratio. I wouldn’t recommend it.


I know folks who SS are crazy (I'm one of them) but unless I'm riding the same terrain all the time (BORING) a bike with only one gear ratio option all the time would suck for me at least...

[tuscanyswe]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Once again i have learnt what i need to know from here, i think.. :)

I will just go for a regular frame with flat mounts and just forget about sliding dropouts and belt. Would be fun to try but the costs and perhaps more importantly that i dont think its pleasing to the eyes, has let me to go with just a regular frame for gears this time .)

Cheers
B

[p nut]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Once again i have learnt what i need to know from here, i think.. :)

I will just go for a regular frame with flat mounts and just forget about sliding dropouts and belt. Would be fun to try but the costs and perhaps more importantly that i dont think its pleasing to the eyes, has let me to go with just a regular frame for gears this time .)

Cheers
B

You can always have your local framebuilder weld on some track ends to your "regular" frame. Aside from EBB, I think this looks very clean as well. Probably would cost $100.

https://www.ridemorebikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/single-speed-track-ends.jpg

[tuscanyswe]

You can always have your local framebuilder weld on some track ends to your "regular" frame. Aside from EBB, I think this looks very clean as well. Probably would cost $100.

https://www.ridemorebikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/single-speed-track-ends.jpg

Yes i like that, its clean.

Im getting a new titanium frame and was considering the sliding dropouts for that but yeah to many uncertainties and draw backs for me to gamble with me liking them on a new frame. Like you say perhaps test the waters on something cheaper first and then incorporate into a future custom if i really like it.

I often want a lot of things but then i rarely go for them as its almost always to many compromises. I generally dont like compromises i guess .)

[tigoat]

It seems like there is a lot of clueless posts here. Attached pic is one of my single speed bikes with a regular dropout. There are at least 3 ideal gear inches that I can choose to work with this frame on top of several other less ideal (either lower or higher gear in). This bike probably has more than 20,000 miles as a single speed. The KMC K810 SL chain as shown can last more than 6,000 miles so it is better than any of the multi-speed chains I have used before. I have never dropped a chain on this bike. Isn't that cool to have a single speed bike without a tensioner?