Attack vs Calfee

[Dan Le foot]

Hi gang.
We have been loyal and happy Serotta owners since 1997 when we bought our first Legend Ti. We have owned 5 Serottas over the years and have a Legend and Ottrott in the stable right now.
My current rides are the Legend and an Indy Fab Crown Jewel steel. Both great bikes. I think my Legend will always be my first string bike.
I’ve been thinking about adding a top carbon bike. I once owned a Calfee Tetra Pro that I bought from someone in this forum a few years ago. But the fit and geometry (and black color) was not suited for me so it was sold rather quickly.
I have considered a Parlee and Crumpton but I am leaning heavily to a custom Calfee Tetra Pro. (My wife has a stock Luna that is a beauty. She loves the ride quality).
So what do you think?. Should I wait to see and ride the new Serotta Attack? (The HSG won’t work for me. I’m way too old). The Attack’s price point is about $2000 more than the custom Calfee.
What seez you?
Dan

[gasman]

I love my Calfee Tetra Pro.
I'm sure the Serotta will be a great ride also.

Two great choices.

[quattro]

Dan, I know you were not asking for any feedback on the PARLEE, but I just wanted to say how much I love my Z1, I also own an IF Crown Jewel Ti and enjoy it as well. I sometimes wonder how much the regional location of a builder plays into someones decision making. While I see many Calfees on MA. roads, I wonder if the PARLEE is as popular in CA. You being in San Diego, do you see many PARLEE'S on the road? Sorry I can't help with your decision on the new Serotta v. a custom Calfee. Your post just got me to thinking about east coast v. west coast frame builder choices and what goes into someones decision making process..

[cinelli]

For the price, the Tetra is hard to beat. I really like the ride of the Tetra and Craig has been very helpful when it comes to options and such.

[bostondrunk]

Calfee Tetra Pro.

[Johny]

(My wife has a stock Luna that is a beauty. She loves the ride quality).

Dan

Listen to your wife. :)

$2000 will get you a very nice set of wheels/tires that will make more difference than a frame at this level.

Also, Calfee's 25 year warranty is basically a lifetime warranty for most of us.

Nevertheless, if I had money, I would buy a MeiVici.

[Dan Le foot]

[QUOTE=quattro] You being in San Diego, do you see many PARLEE'S on the road? QUOTE]
Thanks for the input, Quattro.
I think the only Parlee I have seen out here is the one Robin Williams rode a few years ago in the Challenged Athlete Triathalon.
BTW
I asked Robin what his favorite of his some 70 high end bikes he had. He said it was his C50.
Dan

[mso]

Calfee since I love mine but would also consider a Parlee if I could ever find one to ride. I've heard good things about both bikes and builders.

[Ligero]

I have a Crumpton and cannot say enough good things about it. What I have found is most high end carbon bikes are all extremely nice and all will fill your needs without any problems. You could go with which fits best, but with all of them being custom sized that doesn't matter. So the most important thing is which one looks the best. That may sound shallow but a high end bike needs to be pleasing visually because you can get a bike that is almost as good for much less money.

So here is pictures of my Crumpton so you can see what a Crumpton looks like and just so I can show off how cool my bike is :) Link to thread showing complete bike http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=24174

[Johny]

I have a Crumpton and cannot say enough good things about it. What I have found is most high end carbon bikes are all extremely nice and all will fill your needs without any problems. You could go with which fits best, but with all of them being custom sized that doesn't matter. So the most important thing is which one looks the best. That may sound shallow but a high end bike needs to be pleasing visually because you can get a bike that is almost as good for much less money.

So here is pictures of my Crumpton so you can see what a Crumpton looks like and just so I can show off how cool my bike is :) Link to thread showing complete bike http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=24174

+1

[Climb01742]

the $2000 price difference is, i think, your answer. calfee. once you ride a top carbon frame, be careful...your legend may not be your go to bike anymore. :D

[MassBiker]

I raced on a Calfee Luna for years and I don't think you can find more bang for your buck anywhre.
I am sure a Tetra can hold it's own with any bike out there....even the more expensive brands.
:beer:

[Lanternrouge]

I have considered a Parlee and Crumpton but I am leaning heavily to a custom Calfee Tetra Pro. (My wife has a stock Luna that is a beauty. She loves the ride quality).
So what do you think?. Should I wait to see and ride the new Serotta Attack? (The HSG won’t work for me. I’m way too old). The Attack’s price point is about $2000 more than the custom Calfee.
What seez you?
Dan

I'd also recommend looking at a Crumpton. Parlee prices have risen about 50% this year and custom geometry still custs about $500 extra. So, a custom Z2 or Z3 will cust more than the Crumpton. With custom geometry taken into account, the Tetra custom will still be a couple hundred less, but with the Crumpton you're getting the top model whereas with the Tetra you know the D-Fly is out there. The non-SL Crumpton is no longer on the website, so I'm not sure if it's still made.

That being said, I've put a fair amount of time in with a Z3 and a D-Fly. ATMO, the Parlee is better but not in a way I can really quantify. Plus, the D-Fly may be my second favorite bike anyway.

If you get a Calfee or Parlee, it won't be the only one in this area. I see a fair number of Calfees and know of at least one other Parlee.

I can't speak to what the Attack will be like to ride, but I personally would go with a Parlee Z1 if I were breaking the bank so to speak.

[ThasFACE]

Parlee prices have risen about 50% this year and custom geometry still custs about $500 extra.

Just got quoted parlee prices this morning and was shocked. A stock z3 starts at 3900 (as does the z2), whereas (according to my trusty interweb research) about two years ago it was more in the realm of 2500. On a scale of '1 to not-being-able-to-pony-up-for-a-new-parlee,' I'm going to have to give it a '9.'

[Ligero]

The non-SL Crumpton is no longer on the website, so I'm not sure if it's still made.

The standard has been discontinued and there will be a new UL frame. The UL will have carbon dropouts, carbon cable stops and a new Crumpton designed rear end. From what he has told me the weights should be around 680g for a 55cm frame!

[Climb01742]

i have owned two parlees, a Z1 and Z3. both were exceptional, as good as carbon gets, IMO. i've never ridden a calfee. but when it comes to bang-for-buck, parlees and serottas may not be competitive with calfees and crumptons. 1 centaur, who knows a lot about carbon bikes, puts his crumpton at the top of his list.

[Lanternrouge]

The standard has been discontinued and there will be a new UL frame. The UL will have carbon dropouts, carbon cable stops and a new Crumpton designed rear end. From what he has told me the weights should be around 680g for a 55cm frame!

Any word on production date or price? I imagine the standard "if you have to ask" rule applies for a 680 gram frame.

[Lanternrouge]

i have owned two parlees, a Z1 and Z3. both were exceptional, as good as carbon gets, IMO. i've never ridden a calfee. but when it comes to bang-for-buck, parlees and serottas may not be competitive with calfees and crumptons. 1 centaur, who knows a lot about carbon bikes, puts his crumpton at the top of his list.

I don't think any of these brands can really be considered when discussing bang for the buck. I think the best bang for the buck are generic Asian frames. All four brands are well past the point of diminishing returns, but we get them because we want that little extra, the gestalt.

[Ligero]

Any word on production date or price? I imagine the standard "if you have to ask" rule applies for a 680 gram frame.

He is building the first ones now and the price will be $4500 to $4700.

[CNY rider]

i have owned two parlees, a Z1 and Z3. both were exceptional, as good as carbon gets, IMO. i've never ridden a calfee. but when it comes to bang-for-buck, parlees and serottas may not be competitive with calfees and crumptons. 1 centaur, who knows a lot about carbon bikes, puts his crumpton at the top of his list.


I have a Legend, and it's my "go to", as you mentioned in your other post Climb. I've had some other really nice frames come and go, including an Ottrott, but none stuck around until I got the Z1X. It's the first bike I've had that holds its own against the Legend. I guess now I have two "go to's". There are much worse problems to have. :p

[RPS]

Using the concept of diminishing returns makes a lot of sense when comparing bikes, but for me it requires a common point of reference to start the comparison from in order to have meaning (I can’t deal with it on an absolute basis). For many people I know spending over $1,000 for a complete bicycle is ludicrous, so for them comparing $3,000 and $5,000 frames would be pointless and way beyond the point of diminishing returns. If a custom Calfee Tetra Pro (and I now have two, one frameset still in the shipping box) was my least expensive acceptable option that met all my needs, I personally would find it hard to justify spending up to twice as much for incremental gains – including a little weight reduction or additional intangibles.

[rnhood]

I don't remember clearly but, I might have been the one who sold you your Calfee (especially if it's a 60cm). I purchased a 62cm Tetra Custom after selling the 60cm and really like this Tetra. It just seems to do everything so well. I'm a happy camper.

[Dan Le foot]

I don't remember clearly but, I might have been the one who sold you your Calfee (especially if it's a 60cm). I purchased a 62cm Tetra Custom after selling the 60cm and really like this Tetra. It just seems to do everything so well. I'm a happy camper.

That was your 60 cm black Calfee Tetra Pro, rnhood. As I recalled you sent me the frame for inspection prior to your cashing the check. Class act.
I could never really bond with the bike. It was just a bit big for me. And the black wasn't my favorite color. I sold it to a nice man in Pittsburg.
My wife's Luna in the cabernet red is one of my favorite looking bikes of all time. Right up ther with Dave Thompson's Ottrott. But if I get another Tetra I'll have to go with a different color. We would look way to cute riding the same bike. :bike:
I'm glad you are enjoying your Tetra.
Dan

[Dan Le foot]

I have a Crumpton and cannot say enough good things about it. What I have found is most high end carbon bikes are all extremely nice and all will fill your needs without any problems. You could go with which fits best, but with all of them being custom sized that doesn't matter. So the most important thing is which one looks the best. That may sound shallow but a high end bike needs to be pleasing visually because you can get a bike that is almost as good for much less money.

So here is pictures of my Crumpton so you can see what a Crumpton looks like and just so I can show off how cool my bike is :) Link to thread showing complete bike http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=24174

Awesome looking frame, Ligero. The decal set sets the carbon off nicely.
I really like seeing the carbon weave on high end carbon frames.
I need to reconsider the Crumpton I think. Certainly has gotten a lot of great press in the last two years.
Thanks for the info.
Dan

[Simon Q]

Listen to your wife. :)

$2000 will get you a very nice set of wheels/tires that will make more difference than a frame at this level.

Also, Calfee's 25 year warranty is basically a lifetime warranty for most of us.

Nevertheless, if I had money, I would buy a MeiVici.

As would I!

[1centaur]

My wife's Luna in the cabernet red is one of my favorite looking bikes of all time.Dan

I have some cabernet red on my Tetra but I always wish I had more - it's a great color.

In my experience, Calfees ("super stiff" tubes) ride a little smoother but with less snap than my Parlee Z1x or my Crumpton SL (rnhood found his Calfee very snappy, I think, so this is a perception issue, not a hard and fast rule). The Crumpton classic is the smoothest of the older three but more efficient than the Calfee and, in my now-lost Bicycling comparo of the three, than the Parlee but only by a whisker and within the margin of delusion. I won't do a Crumpton classic vs. SL comparison, but I'm guessing the SL would win (I like the best possible combo of acceleration and comfort). The UL is on my radar but I need to see pictures of the tubes to see if it fits my imagined paint scheme (and then find someone talented enough to get it done as it's in my head).

I suspect that a Calfee vs. any Serotta CF bike would be a difficult but enjoyable comparison to make - I would expect them to ride fairly similarly and notably better than generic Asian carbon. At that level truly custom paint (or naturally great, like the CA Look 585/595) is a key factor for me (a plus for Calfee unless Serotta would ship an HSG or Attack frame unpainted), but some people really don't like the look of the webbed Calfee lugs, and Calfee tubes are a little smaller in diameter than most modern CF designs, which alters how the paint design can look and perhaps is more appealing to traditionalists than to me. I'd bet the OP can't go wrong in terms of happiness with any of these choices if paint is not critical.

BTW - I'm not seeing a ton of Parlees around here (a few miles from the factory). Bob Parlee rides in my LBS's club. When the MeiVici came out and everyone was shocked (shocked I say) at the price, I suggested that it would create a price umbrella for other top makers to enjoy. I get the impression that Parlee has pretty high capacity utilization, so the upper end bike makers are exploiting a rare thing these days: pricing power.

[Frustration]

Crumpton and Parlee...


I prefer the finish and the ride...


Parlee's attention to detail is insanely good... And Crumpton have a new version that is really sweet.

I especially like the way Crumpton use a simple but VERY effective additional wrap at the joints to tune the ride... It's both very clean and really nice to look at.

As it stands now, these are the two best all-carbon custom guys available.

[FlaRider]

Not to burst the bubble of the "custom carbon-is-better" crowd (I used to belong to that club myself and have owned a custom Parlee Z1 and custom Calfees, among others), you should really consider a Pinarello Paris Carbon, if the stock geos fit you. It's a hell of a bike for the money ($3,500 or so for frameset and headset), and one of my favorite carbon bikes of all time (I've long ago sold the Parlee and Calfees). I think Jack Brunk would concur.

[Jack Brunk]

I completely agree with FlaRider. To me you can't make a frame ride much better than the Paris carbon. Parlee frames do nothing for me in terms of looks. Every frame I've seen in my LBS have had some type of problems in their finish. Parlee's paint is two or three levels below Serotta. To me you shouldn't even compare a Parlee to a Serotta as that's an insult to Serotta. Yes I have ridden the Parlee and to me it had a dead ride quality.

Remember, this is only my feelings and yours may and will differ.


J

[vaxn8r]

I shouldn't be shocked at the variance of opinion among the high end CF frames, but I am. I can't imagine there is a bad one in the bunch, maybe just less stellar than another.

I do believe there is possibly a better bike for one than for someone else based on preferences, riding styles, size and weight and even preconceived ideas.

I have ridden a bunch of high end CF (Trek, Calfee, Time) and I wouldn't call any of them "dead". I've ridden several AL bikes I would willingly give that description to. If there really is something called snap (is that the opposite of dead?) I'd have to say my Calfee has more snap than my Legend, maybe a bit more than the Ottrott I rode as well.

I'm so in enthralled with how my Calfee rides I honestly don't have desires to purchase another bike but I'd still love to try out an Attack, a Meivici, a Crumpton and a Parlee.

Lastly, for me price does play a significant factor. It has to. To me a Tetra Pro is pushing the envelope for a new bike. I simply can't fathom paying 2-3 times more for any other frame. Even the Dragon Fly didn't appeal to me for only $1k more than a Tetra Pro. When Craig Calfee told me they were engineered to ride exactly the same, the difference being in about 8 oz of weight that killed any interest I had in that option. To me that doesn't justify the expense. It's a complicated decision where to draw the line. Good luck deciding.

[RDP]

Hi gang.
We have been loyal and happy Serotta owners since 1997 when we bought our first Legend Ti. We have owned 5 Serottas over the years and have a Legend and Ottrott in the stable right now.
My current rides are the Legend and an Indy Fab Crown Jewel steel. Both great bikes. I think my Legend will always be my first string bike.
I’ve been thinking about adding a top carbon bike. I once owned a Calfee Tetra Pro that I bought from someone in this forum a few years ago. But the fit and geometry (and black color) was not suited for me so it was sold rather quickly.
I have considered a Parlee and Crumpton but I am leaning heavily to a custom Calfee Tetra Pro. (My wife has a stock Luna that is a beauty. She loves the ride quality).
So what do you think?. Should I wait to see and ride the new Serotta Attack? (The HSG won’t work for me. I’m way too old). The Attack’s price point is about $2000 more than the custom Calfee.
What seez you?
Dan

Bike buying is hell isn't it...However, a Tetra custom in cobalt blue would serve you well.

[Dan Le foot]

Bike buying is hell isn't it...However, a Tetra custom in cobalt blue would serve you well.
Very pretty RDP.
Yep, buying a new bike frame, deciding on the wheels and components and buliding it up is one of my favorite activities. In fact, as soon as its done the search for the next project begins.
I bought my last bike (IF steel Crown Jewel) fully built from the LBS. Booooring!
Dan