Cleat alignment

[p nut]

I bought these Sidi’s a couple of years ago. Never noticed the cleat alignment had been off. If you notice in the picture, the one on the left is toed in more. This causes the heel to swing in when I pedal. (I drew in the green and red lines)

It’s never given me much discomfort and the knees feel ok, but now that I’ve noticed it, it is really bothering me. Especially since I just put on new cleats, without it being worn it, it’s accentuated the pronation (is that the right word?).

I don’t know if this is a manufacturer defect or within tolerance. Even with the cleat set at max float, it feels the same. The shoe on the right (my left foot) has good alignment and feels good.

Anyone else notice this?

[David Kirk]

Isn't the cleat position adjustable?

dave

[p nut]

Isn't the cleat position adjustable?

dave

Only up and down. The mounting points slide up and down, but cannot adjust the angle.

https://trikeasylum.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sidi-vs-lake-sole.jpg

[ultraman6970]

----- This causes the heel to swing in when I pedal <--- if those cleats has 0 movement or zero arch movement or whatever shimano calls is then ....

IMO/IME. What causes the swing is that your arch is moving down, the cleat has nothing to do with it that (unless you have floating in the pedals). Put more arch support and the arch wont go down and the swing will stop, probably is even a problem that you pull too much at the upper stroke and the arch gets off the insole then when you go down the foot will tend to swing.

Many people doesnt realize they have flexible arches and to stop that you have to add more support. You can put a couple of pieces of handlebar tape under the arch (i have it on top with double sided tape) and the arch wont go down, will get more support. Have tried several insoles and the only ones that so far worked are the carbon solestar, those will hold your weight like a champ. Some shoes after a few years gets like flipflops and the arch support built in the shoe goes bye bye.

If the pedal itself has floating, is the same principle IMO, the more the arch goes down the more the foot will try to swing. The other thing is pedaling technique, but thats a real I dont want to touch because i do not know you at all....

Hope this helps to consider other solutions to your problem.

[benb]

Might be a problem for me, might not be a problem for me. My legs do not like the cleats in the same position. I don't know that it's a bone issue but my right leg acts functionally shorter.

I haven't seen a shoe like yours. But the majority of shoes I've had that had measurements on the soles the measurements were off and were not consistent in the two shoes in the set. So if you did want your cleats set exactly the same and you lined them up with the measurements on the shoe they'd be asymmetric when you were done. Really quite annoying with how expensive bike stuff is.

Same thing with putting brifters on handlebars. I don't work in a shop building bikes all day but I've done it at least 10x. I think of the bars that had measurements for lining up the brifters to be at the same height I have seen only one bar where they put the markings on the same spot on each side of the bar. Again really annoying.

So another thing with the arch behavior.. if you have one leg that acts functionally shorter than the other it will be challenged at the bottom of the pedal stroke and that will cause your arch to do weird things. Ti Designs talks about this in some of his videos. The Tibialis anterior will activate at the bottom of the pedal stroke and pull on the foot/knee cause the pedal action is stretching the leg beyond where it wants to go. If your shoes are really loose the foot will come up from the bed of the shoe a little bit. If the shoe is tight your foot will try to flatten out the arch to make room. On my shorter leg if I don't get the cleat right (fore-aft) this will happen.. the arch flexing that way will lead to some pretty serious pain after a while. If your saddle height is set lower you won't have this issue with the shorter leg/foot but you'll compromise the other leg instead.

My shorter foot tries to swing out/point the toes out more than the other one when it's at the bottom of the pedal stroke. I think this is again the leg trying to compensate for the fact it's "reaching".. it's trying to reduce the Q to help it's reach. If everything is set up just right the effect gets reduced. If everything is set up really badly the short leg pulls me toward that side on the saddle.. it gives me a saddle sore and my other leg will move inboard and start rubbing the crank. Then the long leg doesn't pedal as hard and I start having issues with my wrist on the long side because the leg is not putting out enough force to hold that side up.

So much goes on, it's really important to get the cleats right.

[sitzmark]

With the fixing bolts snugged but still allowing some movement, I've always been able to slightly rotate the mounting plate within the channels for some off-centerline toe-in/toe-out on my PI mtb's. (But not if you run both bolts at end of channel.)

Check out slight plate difference between left and right.

[benb]

Pretty much every 4-bolt SPD style shoe I've had has that same setup as those PIs and allows both fore/aft and angle adjustment.

4-bolt shoes IME have more adjustment range than 3-bolt shoes so hopefully you don't need to put the cleats at the extreme end of the range AND have to angle them as well.

If the tread is in the way you can always file/dremel more space.

[sitzmark]

Pretty much every 4-bolt SPD style shoe I've had has that same setup as those PIs and allows both fore/aft and angle adjustment.

4-bolt shoes IME have more adjustment range than 3-bolt shoes so hopefully you don't need to put the cleats at the extreme end of the range AND have to angle them as well.

If the tread is in the way you can always file/dremel more space.

That's true and looks like p nut's second photo. Only difference is that the plate is at the end of travel on the Sidi (without cleat attached). He should have same standard rotational adjustment as long as plate not 100% forward or back.

[David Kirk]

Interesting - there is enough play in the plates on my Sidis to make a reasonable amount of rotational adjustment.

dave

[wildboar]

Is there any debris stuck around the threaded part inside the shoe sole? Sand or something getting in the way when you tighten your cleats up?

[p nut]

Hmm. I tried with my might early this morning to turn the plates while tightening down to no avail. They are mounted to the top mounting points, but with the plate moved all the way down. I will see if i can push it up a bit and try to adjust the angle. Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions.

[David Kirk]

Hmm. I tried with my might early this morning to turn the plates while tightening down to no avail. They are mounted to the top mounting points, but with the plate moved all the way down. I will see if i can push it up a bit and try to adjust the angle. Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions.

One of the challenging things with this set up is that once you tighten down the cleats in one position it can be hard to get them locate them elsewhere. The cleats have ridges on the bottom that bed into the sole of the shoe to keep them from twisting in use and these leave indents in the shoe....and the cleat wants to slip back into those same indents.

You might try loosening the mounting bolts enough that the cleat is no longer in contact with the shoe and see if you can rotate things around....and then carefully and slowly tighten one bolt just a bit and then the other going back and forth until they are tight. The aim is to get them to make new indents in a better place for you.

Good luck!

dave

[p nut]

One of the challenging things with this set up is that once you tighten down the cleats in one position it can be hard to get them locate them elsewhere. The cleats have ridges on the bottom that bed into the sole of the shoe to keep them from twisting in use and these leave indents in the shoe....and the cleat wants to slip back into those same indents.

You might try loosening the mounting bolts enough that the cleat is no longer in contact with the shoe and see if you can rotate things around....and then carefully and slowly tighten one bolt just a bit and then the other going back and forth until they are tight. The aim is to get them to make new indents in a better place for you.

Good luck!

dave

Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately didn’t work out. Sidis have no play at all. I mean, none whatsoever. Just straight up and down and that’s it. Guess I will have to live with it and hope it wears in enough to tolerate.

[cmbicycles]

You could try trimming the slots on the shoes. They are bulged in a bit from previous cleat mounting, so that may give you a little wiggle room. Looks like you are using metal cleat backing plates in the pics above so slots getting pinched wouldn't be an issue with current setup. If that didn't work you could also try a different, and/or single, mounting plate in the shoe instead of the double plate that's in there.

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[Peter P.]

You could try trimming the slots on the shoes. ...

My thoughts exactly. The slots look buggered up. A little filing and you'll be in business.

[merckx]

Start fresh. New shoes and cleats.

[David Kirk]

If the shoes were mine......I'd pull out the insole and look inside and if they are like Sidis from a number of years ago the foot board is perforated around the cleat area. In effect it's a trap door you can open to remove the threaded metal insert.

Take it out and then use a file or utility knife and reshape the slots that have been deformed and made narrow from tightening the cleats in place. The deformation of the slots in the plastic is your core issue. So clean up those slots and then put the whole thing back together and place the cleats where you want them and go for a ride.

dave

[djg21]

You didn’t have a problem for how long? And your problem is that the two clear placements look slightly different? Your feet are different first of all, and cleat placement needn’t be symmetrical. There is also some float in the pedal. Put the cleats back where they were and go ride your bike. If it ain’t broke, why try to fix it.

[p nut]

Good suggestions. Thanks, all. I will see about dremeling the slots. Rode again yesterday and it was very annoying trying to keep my foot/heel straight and not have it swing in.