Bar end shifter advice?

[big shanty]

Hey all,

I am having a new custom commuter frame built, and the plan is to have Campagnolo 10 speed drivetrain & bar end shifters (already have scored an '06 Record crank on the cheap, so I am committed to the Campy 10 spd.). Will probably mix n' match b/w Record & Chorus parts to minimize the carbon fiber look, but that is beside the point. Has anyone had experience w/ the Campy 10 speed bar end shifters? It appears that they are indexing only. My preference would be shifters w/ a friction option, but if the Campy shifters are the cat's a**, let me know. Any advice on bar end shifters in general (brand/setup/etc.), would be welcome. Thanks!

Noah

[Ken Robb]

Shimano has friction option and several folks here have said they think Shimano shifters work fine with Campy wheels. I had that set-up on my Legend for a while but I found that the drivetrain ran noisily when toward the extremes of chainline where all Campy or all Shimano runs well. The error in indexing with a mixed group can be minimal in the middle of the cogs but it is incremental as one moves away from the center cogs.

I don't know if using Campy derailers and cogs w/ Shimano shifters would work better.

Old Sun Tour power ratchet shifters are the best friction shifters ever IMO and Rivendell is having them manufactured again and selling them as their Silver brand downtube and bar-ends. I have them on a couple of 7 speed bikes both double and triple and they are way better than Nuovo Record, etc. for easy shifting by a klutz like me. I don't se why they wouldn't work with 10 speed though the movement required to shift would be less (more finicky?) due to the closeness of the 10 speed cogs. Obviously the beauty of friction is you can mix/match brands to your heart's content.

[eddief]

these guys sell gizmos for mixed up drivetrains. i hear they work well.

http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

[Too Tall]

B.ShantyasyouwannaB - With little else to go on I'll offer some advice. It could be a really really bad idea to go friction with 10 spd. Here's why, the chains are swiss cheese and you will snap one when the day comes that you get between gears when pedaling under pressure. It's going to happen. Do you gots to my man? Say it ain't so.

[big shanty]

Thanks for the info....the Campy 10 speed barcons are probably indexing-only for that very reason. Thanks for the great advice.

[A.L.Breguet]

Sorry if I'm a wet blanket, but the clearest image of bar ends I have is a guy I found by the side of the road with a bar end through his calf. No joke, I sh!!t you not. He and his buds had it under control, and I don't know how it turned out, but it was quite gruesome.
Sorry.
:(

[chuckred]

but don't route the cable through the bars and out a hole drilled in them!

Sounds obvious! I really can't imagine drilling bars anymore, but who knows? But, reminded me of an old story...

My old Paramount had bar ends (that I subsequently changed to downtube). After riding the bike for about 15 years, I was climbing out of the saddle when all of a sudden the right half of the bar (old Cinelli) came off in my hand. Disconcerting, but at least I was climbing (i.e. slow) and it kind of slowly peeled off (vs. a quick snap) so I was able to stop.

Interesting ride home - holding it loose in my right hand so I could still use the brake - though gingerly!

The bar ends were Sun Tour friction with campy rubber tips that fit over the levers to camoflage them!

[H.Frank Beshear]

I've got them on my Kirk and like them a lot. My only complaint is that they curve up not down. I think that they were designed as bar ends for tri-bikes which works for the shape. Never missed a shift though and it took about 1 ride to get used to them. Strictly index though. Frank

[DarkStar]

but don't route the cable through the bars and out a hole drilled in them!

Sounds obvious! I really can't imagine drilling bars anymore, but who knows? But, reminded me of an old story...

My old Paramount had bar ends (that I subsequently changed to downtube). After riding the bike for about 15 years, I was climbing out of the saddle when all of a sudden the right half of the bar (old Cinelli) came off in my hand. Disconcerting, but at least I was climbing (i.e. slow) and it kind of slowly peeled off (vs. a quick snap) so I was able to stop.

Interesting ride home - holding it loose in my right hand so I could still use the brake - though gingerly!

The bar ends were Sun Tour friction with campy rubber tips that fit over the levers to camoflage them!

This may be a good time to change the Cinelli bars I've been using for 25 years :eek:
Currently on the commuter.

[billrick]

I've used bar ends on two of my last three bikes (the third wore down tube shifters). I love the things. I wouldn't put them on a race bike, but they are great on a commuter, brevet, or a touring bike. I like that the shifters force me to take my hands off the hoods periodically on long rides - my hands get numb sometimes after long rides with STI/Ergo shifters because I zone out and leave my hands up top. And that graceful arc of cable looks neat to my eye.

Set up tip - cross the shifter housing up front (right hand shifter housing to the left hand frame boss, and vice versa) and then cross the cables under the down tube. This gives you a better arc. It will also keep the housing off the headtube and avoid paint loss from rubbing. There is no loss of shifting efficiency fro the cables crossing. Let me know if a photo would equal 1000 words here.

:)

[pdxmech13]

10 gears are pretty close to one another for the fine friction to really work great. Just a full turn of a barrel adjuster can make the chain run on the next gear.

[Ray]

I've used bar ends on two of my last three bikes (the third wore down tube shifters). I love the things. I wouldn't put them on a race bike, but they are great on a commuter, brevet, or a touring bike.
I too like barcons a lot and find their only disadvantage relative to STI/Ergo is the inability to shift while standing. Which isn't a big issue for me generally, but is a tradeoff to consider for some riders on some bikes. Shimano barcons are nice for offering a friction option. BUT.... Friction shifting is great up through seven speeds and is OK at 8, but for 9 and 10 speed systems I'd treat it as an emergency contingency only. Those gears are just too close together, the chains are narrow, etc, and its real easy to bung things up - you're in a gear, it feels pretty solid, you stand up to climb and it jumps cogs and you chew up the works, lose momentum, get pissed, etc. Its happened to me more than once. So, not a bad thing to have for emergency, but I wouldn't use it if I didn't have to.

So for a 10 speed system I don't see the lack of friction as a big drawback unless you're gonna be using the bike on long distance tours in the middle of nowhere where you might actually NEED the friction option for a couple of days until you can get something fixed - then again you probably shouldn't use a 10-speed setup for that application to begin with. But for a commuter, the worst that would happen is probably that you're late to work one day? So, if you're committed to Campy 10, I'd just use their barcons and wouldn't worry about the lack of friction.

-Ray

[dirtdigger88]

Im going to cry foul here

My Kirk is friction- with a 10 speed drive train- I have had zero issues in the last year-

I set up my DKS (pre fixed) with bar end shifters (also friction) and a 9 speed set up-

again zero issues-

if you want friction- do it-

Jason

[dauwhe]

I've been OK with friction for Shimano 9sp, but I would agree that 10 would be too much! Admittedly, the bike I ride most has indexed 9sp downtube shifters... I love the light feel of the Silver shifters (friction), but there's something to be said for throwing the lever and then not worrying about it (especially in the middle of the night on a brevet).

Dave

[pdxmech13]

I was only sugesting that the friction mode is a little more finicky to use than say old 7-8 spd barcons. I personally love the feel of a bar end shifter. As far as answering the original question I have little experience w/ campy bar ends and not sure if they can be friction/index.

:banana: :banana:

[Too Tall]

Whatevah floats yah boat bruddaa :).
BTW am I the first putz to post from a blackberry? BaaawOooooo

[palincss]

Old Sun Tour power ratchet shifters are the best friction shifters ever IMO and Rivendell is having them manufactured again and selling them as their Silver brand downtube and bar-ends. I have them on a couple of 7 speed bikes both double and triple and they are way better than Nuovo Record, etc. for easy shifting by a klutz like me. I don't se why they wouldn't work with 10 speed though the movement required to shift would be less (more finicky?) due to the closeness of the 10 speed cogs. Obviously the beauty of friction is you can mix/match brands to your heart's content.

I have a set of "supermix" bar end shifters (original Shimano bar end shifter pods with a set of SunTour Sprint downtube levers installed) on my new Kogswell P/R, friction-shifting a hyperglide 7-speed. It works fine, better than most anything I can recall having ever tried back in the 70s and 80s.

I tried these very shifters on an Alex Moulton AM16, and the results were very poor. I got ghost-shifts every time I downshifted and stopped at a light. As soon as I put pressure on the pedals to start up once the light changed, BAM! it shifted up into the higher gear.

I think the 7 is dramatically easier to shift and hit the right gear reliably than an 8. I've never tried it with a 9, never mind a 10. There's at least one person on the iBOB list who swears by friction-shifting a 9-speed.

One other thing: those SunTour Sprint levers mounted as bar-end shifters sure do look pretty! http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/326010209/

[billrick]

One other thing: those SunTour Sprint levers mounted as bar-end shifters sure do look pretty! http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/326010209/

Man, you are not kidding! Those are some great looking levers! Long and lean with that nice flip at the end. And thanks for posting photos of the Kogswell. Very nice set up.

:)

[palincss]

Man, you are not kidding! Those are some great looking levers! Long and lean with that nice flip at the end. And thanks for posting photos of the Kogswell. Very nice set up.

:)

Thanks. :)

Those levers are a sensual treat, too. Much lighter action than any other bar end shifters I've tried, so they're easy to operate and you can really feel through the lever what's going on, And the ticking of the ratchet sounds very pleasant too.
If you enjoy the feel of a friction shift lever, you'll love the feel of these.

Some might prefer to do as Riv suggests, and put the right pod on the left side of the bar and vice versa. That way the tips of the levers point slightly out rather than slightly inwards, and the D-rings to adjust are on the outside rather than the inside.

[dirtdigger88]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16933&stc=1

Jason

[billrick]

Some might prefer to do as Riv suggests, and put the right pod on the left side of the bar and vice versa. That way the tips of the levers point slightly out rather than slightly inwards, and the D-rings to adjust are on the outside rather than the inside.

Just to clarify, when set up Riv-style, the rear derailleur shifter is on the left side of the bars, and front derailleur shifter is on the right, correct? Is there any way to switch the pods and keep the rear shifter on the right-hand side of the bars? Looks like the shifters would be mounted upside down if I did that.

I stared at the bike and mentally played with this idea last night but couldn't get over the switched shifters. I like the idea of having the shifters pointing out and the D-rings facing out, but I don't think I could ever get used to the right-front and left-rear combination. I'd be miss-shifting all the time.

:confused:

[palincss]

Just to clarify, when set up Riv-style, the rear derailleur shifter is on the left side of the bars, and front derailleur shifter is on the right, correct? Is there any way to switch the pods and keep the rear shifter on the right-hand side of the bars? Looks like the shifters would be mounted upside down if I did that.

I stared at the bike and mentally played with this idea last night but couldn't get over the switched shifters. I like the idea of having the shifters pointing out and the D-rings facing out, but I don't think I could ever get used to the right-front and left-rear combination. I'd be miss-shifting all the time.

:confused:

The idea is not to have the left shifter control the rear derailleur, etc., but rather to have the pods mounted so that when you attach the levers, the D ring is on the outside rather than the inside. The cables attached to those shifters go to the normal derailleurs associated with left and right hand controls.

Just imagine the pods and levers in this photo switched to the opposite sides, but the cables go normally.

[billrick]

Thanks, I'm going to give this a shot tonight before I re-wrap my bars. I've gotta say that my Dura Ace levers are pretty homely compared to these SunTours. And the inward angle doesn't help any, almost like a reverse pigeon toe. I'll see if I can wrap my feeble mind around the Riv set up and report back!