Which titanium bike brands holds its value the best?

[jeffreng58]

Hey guys.
I'm looking for a titanium road frame to ride with a group but would like to buy a brand that has good resale value.
Background: I currently ride a old 90s Trek with old 90s parts and am the ugly duckling in the group.
This bike will be my biggest investment to date because I plan on putting aero wheels and a new groupset onto a titanium frame.
If possible I'd like to stretch my purchasing dollar on a titanium brand that holds its value over several years in case I plan on selling.
Titanium is nice because it is the most durable material besides steel on a bike and the bikes seem to hold its value longer than carbon or aluminum.
Question: Can anyone help give me tips about which brands to buy?
I've gotten mixed reviews from other forums from other people feeling something more unique like titanium/carbon seatstays from Airborne, or something made by a veteran frame maker like K Bradford, or something more common like a Lynskey for more name brand recognition will have a higher resale value.
Any advice is helpful at this point.
:fight:

[joosttx]

Moots, Baum, Firefly seem to hold their value well.

You will need disc brakes and wide tires compatibility until something changes. With this said I would buy a good bike. All these are.

[weisan]

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/19/cf/15/19cf15a220d529c20c4849bff3bac5ed--bike-poster-riding-bikes.jpg

[HugoBear]

Moots, except the Psychlo X.

[kiwisimon]

buy a used moots, lynskey e.t.c disc road bike and you won't lose as much when you flick it on. . Chances are you might crash it anyways so investing in a primo bike doesn't make much sense if you want to ride it like it was designed to be ridden.

[skouri1]

poke around sold listings on ebay...

i have the impression that moots retains value well, if you buy it used. Any titanium frame new is likely to depreciate by at least half in short order, possibly more if custom and a bit unique.
If it has modern provisions (1 1/8 head tube/rim brake) you probably could buy well used and sell for nearly the same if you got a moots for example.
however technology is changing rapidly.
some people don't want rim brake frames, or disc without thru axles or clearance for only 25s etc. so you cant count on any bike as an investment, or even as a predictably depreciating good. market is very soft now which is good for you as a buyer, but not so much as a future seller.

[berserk87]

Some of the aforementioned brands will likely have a higher resale value, but also come at literally double the cost of some others (i.e. Moots vs Lynskey), or more. So while a Moots may have a higher resale value, why does it matter if you paid $5k for it, and then sell it for $3500? You can score a new Lynskey for some crazy prices these days. Let's say you buy one new for $1400, and turn around and sell it for $700 - then your net loss is half that of the Moots. In fact, you would come out $100 ahead, versus the Moots scenario, by simply giving away the Lynskey vs reselling it. It's hard to rack and stack the kind of impact depreciation may have, and my numbers can be debated.

Buying used can help defray the depreciation hit. That way you are paying fair market value right off of the bat and not absorbing the initial loss like the first buyer.

Either way, a bike is a poor investment. They don't hold value, and even vintage collector pieces do not fare well compared to other types of gear like guitars or automobiles.

I wouldn't buy a bike based on possible resale value. Or to put it in another way, it would be a very minor consideration for me. The market is volatile, and there are more flavors now (disc versus caliper on road bikes, i.e.). My advice is to buy what you love that fits your budget.

[p nut]

I wouldn't buy a bike based on possible resale value. Or to put it in another way, it would be a very minor consideration for me. The market is volatile, and there are more flavors now (disc versus caliper on road bikes, i.e.). My advice is to buy what you love that fits your budget.

I was about to post the same. If this is your biggest purchase to date, then fit, finish, ride quality, etc. should be your priority. Not resale value. I’d rather lose several hundred $ on a frame that I love to ride than losing several seasons of riding on something I’m not totally in love with, despite its excellent resale.

And frankly, if it’s a frame you love, then resale won’t matter.

[Burnette]

Hey guys.
I'm looking for a titanium road frame to ride with a group but would like to buy a brand that has good resale value.
Background: I currently ride a old 90s Trek with old 90s parts and am the ugly duckling in the group.
This bike will be my biggest investment to date because I plan on putting aero wheels and a new groupset onto a titanium frame.
If possible I'd like to stretch my purchasing dollar on a titanium brand that holds its value over several years in case I plan on selling.
Titanium is nice because it is the most durable material besides steel on a bike and the bikes seem to hold its value longer than carbon or aluminum.
Question: Can anyone help give me tips about which brands to buy?
I've gotten mixed reviews from other forums from other people feeling something more unique like titanium/carbon seatstays from Airborne, or something made by a veteran frame maker like K Bradford, or something more common like a Lynskey for more name brand recognition will have a higher resale value.
Any advice is helpful at this point.
:fight:

The new and used bike market has been and is saturated. There's more options than ever too, disc, electronic shifting, gravel/road. It has made for a great secondary market to buy, not so much to sell.

Buy used. Look at every site you can that has used titanium bikes. You'll see pretty quick that someone's dream is now a steal. Buy that person's financial mistake and save your money.

Season is coming to a close, you'll see quite a bit for sale from now till spring.

[John H.]

Moots by a long shot in terms of ti bike value. Especially a stock Moots.
The more custom a bike is, and the smaller and more esoteric the builder is- The bigger the drop vs. retail price paid and secondary market price.

[Ralph]

You mean as a percent of it's value.....or just the dollar amount it depreciates.

If a popular $4000 frame loses half it's value, you lost $2000.

if a $2000 frame loses half it's value, you lost $1000.

If a $1500 Lynskey frame and fork loses down to $500.....you still only lost $1000 and only had to spend $1500.

Or a $1000 Ti frame and fork (and headset) from Bikes Direct .com made by Ora Engineering for Motobecane loses all it's value.....the purchase price is all you lost. And these are pretty nice frames.

[bigbill]

I've purchased two Ti bikes (Serotta, Lynskey) on this forum's classifieds. Both are outstanding bikes.

[Ken Robb]

If you really live in Brooklyn you might get the most bang for your buck buying an "old-fashioned" ti bike with rim brakes and clearance for only 27mm tires with 10 speed group. It's hard to find a hill on Long Island so you don't need disc brakes and 11 or 12 cogs. A nice MOOTS, Serotta, Hampsten, Erickson, Lynskey ti bike will NOT hold you back in the rides you have described and even if you "lost" 1/2 in a future resale it would only be a few hundred bucks at most.

[54ny77]

The worst are generally Moots Vamoots SL's in a 54. Terrible value retainer, especially if in great condition. Get rid it now if you have one. Oh and PM me if so, I might know someone who will take it off your hands.

[booglebug]

As a machinist I have bought many many thousands dollars of machinery over the last 29 years only thinking of the money that could be made off those machines, never thinking about resale value. When I buy a bike I only think of the miles and smiles I will get from it. If you’re that concerned with resale value I would suggest a Caad 10 with 105 that can be had at a great price and is a great bike ( I realize it’s not Ti ). This is coming from someone who owns 4 Ti bikes and was very surprised with the Caad, it’s a keeper!

[yinzerniner]

Hey guys.
I'm looking for a titanium road frame to ride with a group but would like to buy a brand that has good resale value.
Background: I currently ride a old 90s Trek with old 90s parts and am the ugly duckling in the group.
This bike will be my biggest investment to date because I plan on putting aero wheels and a new groupset onto a titanium frame.
If possible I'd like to stretch my purchasing dollar on a titanium brand that holds its value over several years in case I plan on selling.
Titanium is nice because it is the most durable material besides steel on a bike and the bikes seem to hold its value longer than carbon or aluminum.
Question: Can anyone help give me tips about which brands to buy?
I've gotten mixed reviews from other forums from other people feeling something more unique like titanium/carbon seatstays from Airborne, or something made by a veteran frame maker like K Bradford, or something more common like a Lynskey for more name brand recognition will have a higher resale value.
Any advice is helpful at this point.
:fight:

Best investment for making you faster and no longer feeling like the “ugly duckling” of your group?
1- bike fit $250
2- 5-10 training sessions. $250-500
3- power meter and head unit to verify gains $400-600 (which you can sell at a minimal loss)

For less than the price of some fancy deep carbon aero wheels you’ll be dusting the others in your group ride with your 90s trek. And any bike you get afterwards will only go up in value since the Merckx of Williamsburg was seen riding it.

Improve the engine before improving the tool.

[PeregrineA1]

Bikes are a poor investment. I should know, I currently have 20+, all relatively high end, that I could get pennies on the dollar for. Wouldn’t trade them for anything. Find a bike you like buy it and ride it.


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[joosttx]

Best investment for making you faster and no longer feeling like the “ugly duckling” of your group?
1- bike fit $250
2- 5-10 training sessions. $250-500
3- power meter and head unit to verify gains $400-600 (which you can sell at a minimal loss)

For less than the price of some fancy deep carbon aero wheels you’ll be dusting the others in your group ride with your 90s trek. And any bike you get afterwards will only go up in value since the Merckx of Williamsburg was seen riding it.

Improve the engine before improving the tool.

Brilliant.

[9tubes]

Titanium, especially custom Ti, definitely holds resale value better than carbon, unless the carbon bike is special in some way (e.g., Pinarello Dogma). Ti doesn't degrade with time or miles, and it can't have invisible cracks like carbon, so a good strategy is to buy a used but really nice Ti bike. They won't depreciate much.

Buy a beautiful used $3000 Seven Titanium and you can sell it three years later for $3000. Buy a beautiful new $3000 Specialized carbon and you can sell it three years later for $1200. Buy a used Specialized carbon for $1200 and you'll worry whether it will catastrophically fail from a hidden crack the next time you hit a pothole at 30mph.

Brands? Moots, Hampsten, Seven, Merlin, 333Fab...people have various opinions but once you get to a certain quality level these marques are simply different flavors of 10 on a 10 scale. Avoid cheap titanium because...well, life is short and so it should include the sweetness of a top quality ti frame.

I'm new here so I don't want to be too strong with an opinion so just take this as one guy's view.

[Clean39T]

Best investment for making you faster and no longer feeling like the “ugly duckling” of your group?
1- bike fit $250
2- 5-10 training sessions. $250-500
3- power meter and head unit to verify gains $400-600 (which you can sell at a minimal loss)

For less than the price of some fancy deep carbon aero wheels you’ll be dusting the others in your group ride with your 90s trek. And any bike you get afterwards will only go up in value since the Merckx of Williamsburg was seen riding it.

Improve the engine before improving the tool.

Brilliant.

I also recommend shaved legs - pretty cheap, very pro ;)

[Clean39T]

Find a bike you like buy it and ride it.


THIS.

Life is short, ride what you want because it's fun - and then ride more because you're having fun. ROI should be measured in miles and smiles, not resale value.

[tony_mm]

Yep buy the one that you can afford and ride it as often as possible!

If you just look at the money buy the cheapest and ride it as often as possible.

[mhespenheide]

Titanium, especially custom Ti, definitely holds resale value better than carbon.

I'd have to disagree.

Custom is only custom for the original buyer.

After that, it's just as much of a crap shoot whether someone else's custom fits another potential buyer as a stock frame would. If you're looking at resale value, commissioning a custom frame is a money-losing proposition.



A Ti Lynskey is probably the best bet in terms of absolute minimum $$$ lost on a Ti frame bought new; hunt for their sales and you'll score something. But really, you should buy a used Ti frame (that can fit 28's, with rim brakes), and just go ride the snot out of it. The Ti LeMonds can sometimes be found used for sweetheart deals and they ride great.

[Dekonick]

If you really live in Brooklyn you might get the most bang for your buck buying an "old-fashioned" ti bike with rim brakes and clearance for only 27mm tires with 10 speed group. It's hard to find a hill on Long Island so you don't need disc brakes and 11 or 12 cogs. A nice MOOTS, Serotta, Hampsten, Erickson, Lynskey ti bike will NOT hold you back in the rides you have described and even if you "lost" 1/2 in a future resale it would only be a few hundred bucks at most.

And rim brakes worked for generations of TDF mountain stages... Giro stages... Hell, rim brakes are excellent.

A nice Ti bike by Seven, Serotta, Linksey, Can't go wrong. For that matter, Steel can be had for a song and a dance.

[corky]

Buy an Independent Fabrications TI frame....... you’ll never sell it so you’ll never lose any money.......simples👍

[Hilltopperny]

If you are looking at brand new then buy a No22. I have two and they are cheaper than any comparable Moots, Firefly, Baum and Mosaic at around 1/2 to 2/3 the initial cost. They are beautiful with extensive metal work and ride amazing.

The lead time is around 12 weeks and the customer service is great. These guys make a top tier titanium bike welded by Frank who used to weld for Serotta. Hard to beat IMO.

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[oldpotatoe]

If you are looking at brand new then buy a No22. I have two and they are cheaper than any comparable Moots, Firefly, Baum and Mosaic at around 1/2 to 2/3 the initial cost. They are beautiful with extensive metal work and ride amazing.

The lead time is around 12 weeks and the customer service is great. These guys make a top tier titanium bike welded by Frank who used to weld for Serotta. Hard to beat IMO.

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Not really..Custom Moots Vamoots $4500..No22 road/rim brake-$3700..others about the same..remember, the $3200 $ for a no22 is w/o a fork(Great Divide)..PLUS pretty sure this company as well as others are using off shore sourced titanium tubes. It really means a whole lot of nuthing but it's an 'indicator'..Moots uses US sourced titanium..

PLUS no22 consumer direct so they are getting a much bigger margin compared to a dealer sold frame..

[Hilltopperny]

Not really..Custom Moots Vamoots $4500..No22 road/rim brake-$3700..others about the same..remember, the $3200 $ for a no22 is w/o a fork(Great Divide)..PLUS pretty sure this company as well as others are using off shore sourced titanium tubes. It really means a whole lot of nuthing but it's an 'indicator'..Moots uses US sourced titanium..



PLUS no22 consumer direct so they are getting a much bigger margin compared to a dealer sold frame..No22 uses triple butted USA sourced titanium if I am not mistaken and is more in line with an RSL than a Vamoots. Moots makes a great bike as well, but an RSL is significantly more expensive.

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[Mzilliox]

this is such a weird question thats been answered a hundred times over and the answer rarely changes. moots hold value best, but who cares? if youd like to invest in something, i have this bridge...

[grateful]

These hold their value!

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=241100

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=241278

Just sayin.

[oldpotatoe]

No22 uses triple butted USA sourced titanium if I am not mistaken and is more in line with an RSL than a Vamoots. Moots makes a great bike as well, but an RSL is significantly more expensive.

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Well sorta..RSL also has 6/4 titanium bits. And the walls of the Vamoots essentially the same thickness as the thinnest parts of the No22 tubes. Really tough to compare. Butting more often than not on ti frames for marketing rather than any 'performance' items. ..

Both great frames..But the OP is looking for resale $, which I don't think should be part of the decision, but that's just MO..

Ride, fit, customer service..things like that..not how much is it worth in X number of years..

[dbnm]

I would look for a Moots with rim brakes. Unless you ride the mountains and ride in rain often, disc just isn't needed. (Count the rim brake bikes in the last TdF).

[BobC]

My 2 cents having gone through this process getting a titanium race bike.

Did a lot of research and went with Dean. Great bike at what I consider great value.
Originally was going to get a stock, contacted them in the end got a fantastic custom El Diente.

Simply put, incredible bike. My greatest compliment is that I don't even notice it when I ride (or race).

Contact Johannes at Dean.

[cribbit]

Are you buying used or new?

I buy a lot of titanium bikes. I have 4 full bikes and 6 frames right now, and I've sold about two dozen in the last two years.

A used rim brake titanium bike (assuming you properly negotiated price) basically can't go down in value. They hold up better than any other material, typically had a top of the line group from when it was new, and are going to last forever. I'm also in Brooklyn, I can help you find one.

If you have to go new and want the absolute best $$$/performance ratio, a Lynskey frame for $800 is incredible. They come up straight from Lynskey with their full proper warranty a few times a year. You can even get the nice modern thru axle disc brake stuff which will hold value even better (rim brake is donezo)

If you go new from any other manufacturer avoid rim brake, it will not hold value. Even a moots.

[Hilltopperny]

Well sorta..RSL also has 6/4 titanium bits. And the walls of the Vamoots essentially the same thickness as the thinnest parts of the No22 tubes. Really tough to compare. Butting more often than not on ti frames for marketing rather than any 'performance' items. ..



Both great frames..But the OP is looking for resale $, which I don't think should be part of the decision, but that's just MO..



Ride, fit, customer service..things like that..not how much is it worth in X number of years..All things considered I haven't seen too many No22 on the used market yet, but I would bet that they retain as much value in the sold Market as a comparable Moots. They just haven't been around as long or produced as many bikes yet.

I have owned a Vamoots, a newer RSL, Routt and Psychlo x. I currently own a Drifter and a Great divide. I didnt lose any $ when selling the second hand Moots bikes and they were all top notch.

The moots finish is very industrial with $$ options to make them a bit flashier whereas the No22s get polished masked and then blasted included in the price.

I did forget about the RSL getting 6/4 seat stays. The overall ride between the RSL and Great divide are very good. Smooth, stiff, snappy while retaining a very comfortable ride. Either bike is an excellent choice.

Time will tell if No22 holds its value as well. I hadn't checked out the pricing recently as they have gone up a bit since I purchased mine in 2017. Looks like the frame is around what the framesets were a few years ago? 16979836781697983679

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[cribbit]

22's hold value like a Seven, maybe Mosaic/Firefly if it's a nicer model - moots is just a whole different level of crazy.

[bob heinatz]

Moots seem to hold their value the best. I have bought a few used here and none were steals but both great bikes. As already mentioned in numerous posts get a bike that fits and enjoy it.

[Hilltopperny]

I just did a little research and it further proves my point. Go to adrenaline bikes and have a look at No22 frame and frameset prices. They are literally half of a comparable Mosaic, 2/3 of a comparable Moots. I couldn't find actual pricing on the Seven website for just frame/frameset.

I don't see them losing too much value comparably if they hit the used market since the company has only been producing bikes for around 5 years. I know I seem biased since I own a couple of them, but dollar for dollar they are the best deal going for high end titanium bikes IMHO.

A Lynskey is a bargain if you can find them on closeout new, but its been around two years since they were blowing out new frames for $800 and they do not have the same level of finish or details as most others without extra $$$. Still likely the best deal going for a great riding titanium bike that you can pick up new for less than one would lose on almost any high end titanium bike.

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[Clean39T]

https://lynskeyperformance.com/premier-road-frame/

They still offer deals.

I'm not a big Lynskey fan, but $900 and no silly dropouts..

There's an XL on eBay w Enve fork and Cane Creek 110 HS for $799 obo.

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[9tubes]

I'd have to disagree.

Custom is only custom for the original buyer.

After that, it's just as much of a crap shoot whether someone else's custom fits another potential buyer as a stock frame would. If you're looking at resale value, commissioning a custom frame is a money-losing proposition.

A Ti Lynskey is probably the best bet in terms of absolute minimum $$$ lost on a Ti frame bought new; hunt for their sales and you'll score something. But really, you should buy a used Ti frame (that can fit 28's, with rim brakes), and just go ride the snot out of it. The Ti LeMonds can sometimes be found used for sweetheart deals and they ride great.


I agree when we're talking about custom dimensions. I should have been clear that I was talking about custom-builder quality. There are good reasons that a used Hampsten sells for far more than a used Lynskey or LeMond or Performance-Douglas.

[Hilltopperny]

https://lynskeyperformance.com/premier-road-frame/

They still offer deals.

I'm not a big Lynskey fan, but $900 and no silly dropouts..

There's an XL on eBay w Enve fork and Cane Creek 110 HS for $799 obo.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using TapatalkI was not aware of the Premier, but had a r260 and liked it. I would buy and ride one of those premiers at that price any day. It would make a nice all around any weather bike.


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[Blue Jays]

Simply get on the build list to have a Spectrum custom-built for you.

:banana: :eek: :banana: :eek:

[sw3759]

Simply get on the build list to have a Spectrum custom-built for you.

:banana: :eek: :banana: :eek:

Tom Kellogg is retiring and not taking any new orders as of 8/1/19

[BobC]

I think some folks should re-read what OP stated,
"to stretch my purchasing dollar"

Firefly, Moots, No22, etc. are fantastic bikes, but at a huge premium.

Lynskeys are good. I would recommend at least take a look at Dean as well. Personally I think that is more what you are after.

[Dino Suegiù]

This thread is so obsessed-cyclist-heavy (which is of course 100% normal considering the forum we are on).

But come on...Baum, 22, Firefly, Mosaic, etc???
Those and others are all great brands, but mainly for the cognoscenti.
The general or "not as expert" public, which I would think would play heavily into "hold its value best", know nothing about those brands.

My brother (a very dedicated recreational cyclist but not in any way a nerd about it like many of us, he really couldn't give two whits about it) wanted a titanium bicycle (and was not going to budge off of his "Titanium are the best because they are the most durable." hill).

I tried and tried and tried to convince him of this or that ti brand, and the pros and cons of each. No, no, and no.

He bought, of course, a new Moots.

In fact he bought a new Moots also precisely because of his, fallacious or not, notion that Moots "are the best investment" of all. He briefly considered, for the nano-est of seconds, Seven and Litespeed (this was a while ago), only those two other brands, but it was Moots by a mile, not even close, and I really do believe that he represents a big piece of the public perception pie.

A used Moots cannot be beat, imo.
Even in Europe Moots are considered exquisite, with a very special cachet.


NB: also agree w/BobC just above. The title is important.

[Ken Robb]

A Legend ti was just listed in the classifieds that might work if you ride a 57cm.

[jeffreng58]

I think some folks should re-read what OP stated,
"to stretch my purchasing dollar"
Firefly, Moots, No22, etc. are fantastic bikes, but at a huge premium.

Lynskeys are good. I would recommend at least take a look at Dean as well. Personally I think that is more what you are after.

This thread is so obsessed-cyclist-heavy (which is of course 100% normal considering the forum we are on).
But come on...Baum, 22, Firefly, Mosaic, etc???
Those and others are all great brands, but mainly for the cognoscenti.
The general or "not as expert" public, which I would think would play heavily into "hold its value best", know nothing about those brands.

A used Moots cannot be beat, imo.
Even in Europe Moots are considered exquisite, with a very special cachet.
NB: also agree w/BobC just above. The title is important.

I read BobC and Dino S. replies and it made me smile because they really understand my sentiments with my original post. I was originally considering a ti frame that didn't come with a huge premium - a cost that covers the unique decals, certain finishes, and custom geometry. I'd like to personally but it seems difficult to resell a any bike at a premium nowadays. But as the thread expanded with many good insights from everyone, the discussion has evolved and gave me a new perspective in what to look for when buying a titanium frame. My spending limit was way lower in the beginning than it is now.

Moots seem to hold their value the best. As already mentioned in numerous posts get a bike that fits and enjoy it.
But if I can get the bike in my size from all brands, is Moots the choice to choose? So far it seems like it is.

Tom Kellogg is retiring and not taking any new orders as of 8/1/19
Good for Tom. Well deserved.

A Legend ti was just listed in the classifieds that might work if you ride a 57cm.
Yeah it's a beauty. I ride a unfortunate 53...

I just did a little research and it further proves my point. Go to adrenaline bikes and have a look at No22 frame and frameset prices. They are literally half of a comparable Mosaic, 2/3 of a comparable Moots.
I don't see them losing too much value comparably if they hit the used market since the company has only been producing bikes for around 5 years. I know I seem biased since I own a couple of them, but dollar for dollar they are the best deal going for high end titanium bikes IMHO.
Dean and No22 are now on my radar. Thank you.

Does anyone else know much about Dean and No22? It's hard to get a read on the pricing with such a small sample size on the internet. I'm surprised not many people mention LITESPEED at all.

[tuscanyswe]

Dean and No22 are now on my radar. Thank you.

Does anyone else know much about Dean and No22? It's hard to get a read on the pricing with such a small sample size on the internet. I'm surprised not many people mention LITESPEED at all.


Are we still talking best resale value?

Dont think dean is one of those brands. No 22 perhaps not either imo. Maybe a recent model on this forum will have ok value but to the large masses many dont know what no22 is imo.

If value is highest on your list id go with moots. Then again its also one of the best in all categories .)

Mosaic also seem to have reasonable resale value of late.

[Dino Suegiù]

Dean and No22 are now on my radar. Thank you.

Does anyone else know much about Dean and No22? It's hard to get a read on the pricing with such a small sample size on the internet. I'm surprised not many people mention LITESPEED at all.
I agree with tuscanyswe on both 22 and Dean. I do not really know much about either brand though.

What I do know is that when I was doing research on titanium builders, Dean had an abominable, really bad, reputation for very slow/late/frustrating delivery and truly terrible communication, from multiple sources. So, I wrote them off the list, as I cannot stand dealing with that kind of baloney from people.

Of course they may have improved their customer service, delivery, communication, etc., in the meantime but the reputation seemed very well earned, and the frames nothing really special, so I would definitely recommend that one do their due diligence on them (on any small builder for that matter).

Really good small (one- or two-person shops) great and very experienced ti builders that I personally "know" (ie have bought from or at least communicated seriously with) who are also really good people, good businessmen, real pros, honest, direct, and easy to communicate with are, in no particular order, Carl Strong, Steve Potts, Jim Kish, Kent Eriksen/Brad Bingham, Bill Holland, Mike De Salvo, Bill Davidson (if still active), Max Kullaway....

Prices vary between those guys and I am sure I am forgetting some really excellent others, but those ti builders are all excellent imo. Not an advert for any one of them, just more names for the op's list.


Buy the frameset/builder you really love, not some possible r-o-i which is going to be iffy at best going forward.
Or, again, a used Moots for availability, decent prices, great customer service, OK resale.

[Blue Jays]

"...Tom Kellogg is retiring and not taking any new orders as of 8/1/19..."
I thought the dancing bananas indicated the joke...
Glad to have my fleet of titanium Spectrum bicycles.

[doomridesout]

I agree that this diverted into different questions than OP asked.

I agree that Moots have the best overall resale value and broadest base of high cachet, which drives long term values up. They also produced essentially the same few models out year after year, with very minimal variance in spec. When you buy a Moots Compact or Vamoots from the straight HT era, you know exactly what you're getting.

I would argue that Moots has diluted this by making more substantive spec changes year to year since the rim-brake era.

[merlinmurph]

Resale? Moot point.
If you buy a new Firefly, No. 22, Seven, Moots, Mosaic, etc., you're not going to sell it. ;-)

(Said partially in jest)

[enr1co]

Somewhat OT but sharing a magazine article of one's Ti bike purchase story and value requirements.