Cyclist shot on Miami Rickenbacker Causeway

[el cheapo]

Shattering and heartbreaking! Miami Herald has video of cyclist riding in group being shot and killed after argument with motorcyclist. What kind of a country have we become? Folks...for the love of us all do not confront drivers. It's not worth your life.

[Mzilliox]

I heard about this, was the cyclist killed? this is insane, but par for the course in this uncivilized 3rd world country.

[FlashUNC]

Shattering and heartbreaking! Miami Herald has video of cyclist riding in group being shot and killed after argument with motorcyclist. What kind of a country have we become? Folks...for the love of us all do not confront drivers. It's not worth your life.

Glad we're skipping to the victim blaming in the first post. Really cuts out about 3 pages of back and forth.

[tctyres]

Link to the story

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/key-biscayne/article233983587.html

[William]

Committing murder over a verbal altercation is unbelievable, but then it just hi lights that there are people in this world who will commit the ultimate act of violence for the slightest of perceived offenses.


Sounds confused at this point.




W.

[el cheapo]

Hey Flash...watch the video and thanks for your concern.

[Big Dan]

I think the motorcycle rider knew some of the riders.
Maybe some history, everybody around here knows about the Wednesday Pinecrest ride.

[Mzilliox]

Glad we're skipping to the victim blaming in the first post. Really cuts out about 3 pages of back and forth.

perhaps you are jumping the gun a bit, i dont see a victim blame, i see a warning to all to stay sane

[Tickdoc]

just sad.

[PQJ]

perhaps you are jumping the gun a bit, i dont see a victim blame, i see a warning to all to stay sane

+1

[FlashUNC]

Hey Flash...watch the video and thanks for your concern.

perhaps you are jumping the gun a bit, i dont see a victim blame, i see a warning to all to stay sane

+1

There was no call for all to stay sane. As worded it's a Clarion call for cyclists to shut up and let drivers do what they want, lest we get what's coming to us for daring to say something.

The circumstances around this shooting seem rather deep and complex giving the reporting that the two people involved have history.

But "do not confront drivers" with the implication the cyclist provoked his death? I'm sorry but that's some milksop nonsense. What killed the guy was the lunatic with the gun.

[ltwtsculler91]

I think the motorcycle rider knew some of the riders.
Maybe some history, everybody around here knows about the Wednesday Pinecrest ride.

I've done this ride before and know some who do it regularly.

The motorcyclist was a guy who typically followed/motorpaced the ride and offered live commentary via FacebookLive.

From what those I know down there have said, there was some confrontation between him and a rider today

[colker]

If there wasn´t a gun on the scene, the cyclist would be alive.

[Dekonick]

Watched the video. Looks confusing. I stand by the premise it is best to try to not escalate situations, especially when on your bike. You are at a distinct disadvantage.

[William]

If there wasn´t a gun on the scene, the cyclist would be alive.

BS, could have been a knife and the result could be the same.

Hard warning right now, you or anyone else tries to take this into a gun control/ political slant and time outs will be given.

you have been warned.







W.

[bcroslin]

BS, could have been a knife and the result could be the same.

Hard warning right now, you or anyone else tries to take this into a gun control/ political slant and time outs will be given.

you have been warned.







W.

Totally disagree with you on this one. It’s the goddamn guns.

[Dekonick]

If there wasn´t a gun on the scene, the cyclist would be alive.

Would he?

[William]

Totally disagree with you on this one. It’s the goddamn guns.

Warning infraction, if you want to jump on your sword and keep going that's your decision.




W.

[Blue Jays]

"...If there wasn´t a gun on the scene, the cyclist would be alive..."
It is also possible the cyclist was the instigator and perhaps escalated the fight.
We will have to await the police investigation to conclude in order for us to know.

[bcroslin]

Warning infraction, if you want to jump on your sword and keep going that's your decision.




W.

Dude, whatever. Just kill the thread already.

[William]

Dude, whatever. Just kill the thread already.


So far everyone else is having a civil discussion, no need.





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[Big Dan]

I've done this ride before and know some who do it regularly.

The motorcyclist was a guy who typically followed/motorpaced the ride and offered live commentary via FacebookLive.

From what those I know down there have said, there was some confrontation between him and a rider today

I've seen the guy that rides behind them and usually has an older motorcycle.
Looks like some other riders didn't want to be part of the live programming.

[colker]

So far everyone else is having a civil discussion, no need.





W.

I am sorry... but a civil discussion is where all points of view are expressed in a polite, civil manner. You just told us to stfu or be banned.

[William]

I am sorry... but a civil discussion is where all points of view are expressed in a polite, civil manner. You just told us to stfu or be banned.

No, I told you (and everyone in general) not to run the thread down the gun debate rabbit hole. It is a political and highly charged subject.

From the User Agreement:

This place is not...
• For discussion of partisan political topics. If a discussion devolves into partisan politics it will be shut down by the moderators and the thread may be deleted and/or suspensions handed out. Experience has taught us these discussions inevitably deteriorate.


The gun control debate definitely falls under this category.


W.

[Mzilliox]

to be fair that says "partisan politics". there's nothing partisan about this unless YOU specifically try to make it that way. this is a public health issue, its a social issue, its goes well beyond any party, and yes, shut the thread down already if you cant bear to read people speak ill of guns, because there is no other sane response to this story. this issue is more important than any forum. out, non partisan like, just a human, concerned as can be for other humans.

[tuscanyswe]

Its a weird place when ppl cant even object to other ppl having guns cause then its political. In the rest of the world its not political its just common sense tbf.

[William]

People killing people is an issue. We have been down this road before in other threads and it always goes down the rabbit hole. I was willing to let the thread continue as long as it doesn't go down that road but a few of you don't seem to be able to control yourselves so you want the thread closed.

I'm going to leave it open for now, it's your choice where you personally want to go from there. Where each of you decided to take it from there is up to you. I already explained it and why.






W.

[colker]

It is also possible the cyclist was the instigator and perhaps escalated the fight.
We will have to await the police investigation to conclude in order for us to know.

... a street fight is almost always over nothing.

[jamesdak]

People killing people is an issue. We have been down this road before in other threads and it always goes down the rabbit hole. I was willing to let the thread continue as long as it doesn't go down that road but a few of you don't seem to be able to control yourselves so you want the thread closed.

I'm going to leave it open for now, it's your choice where you personally want to go from there. Where each of you decided to take it from there is up to you. I already explained it and why.


W.

Thank you for dealing with this so well.

[Keith A]

I just can't wrap my head around this. Whatever their feud was, that he would kill someone over this. Now one is dead, and two families' lives have been turned upside down.

[Burnette]

I watched the video and read the article.

From the video: it looked like more than two men were arguing. They all separate and the big guy starts dancing on his feet like a boxer does. You can make out a gun in his hand. Then he raises his arm and shoots a guy that's about ten feet away.

From the article: the shooter and victim knew each other. A disturbing passage was that someone in that crowd yelled "shoot him" to the guy with the gun.

From me: sad that someone in this group instigated a fight and sad that the guy with the gun felt that this was the right thing to do. I believe it will get sorted, punishment will be handed out and a life was lost regardless.

Again, for me, I'm conscious of who I associate with and do my best to deescalate situations but I understand that circumstances can put you where you don't want to be.

[soulspinner]

its a weird place when ppl cant even object to other ppl having guns cause then its political. In the rest of the world its not political its just common sense tbf.

bam!

[beeatnik]

Under similar circumstances, honestly thought this was going to happen to me earlier this year.

Hi Houston!

[colker]

Under similar circumstances, honestly thought this was going to happen to happen to me earlier this year.

Hi Houston!

That´s horrible.:eek: Glad you managed to avoid it.

[beeatnik]

Colker, it takes a village.

[harlond]

Nothing but respect for William but perhaps the first line of his post should be edited out, lest he be thought to have done what he's warning people against.

[93KgBike]

Unfortunately, I don't disagree with William about where this thread will end up... There is indeed a need to have those debates, but it ain't here.

This kind of awful **** is just the tip of the iceberg. We all have to be on our guard against bloodlust and vengeance and a capacity to tolerate, or ignore it. Our species is hardcore.

[tctyres]

BS, could have been a knife and the result could be the same.


Unlikely. People typically defend themselves with their forearms against a knife.

Most people are knife owners, yet stabbings are fairly uncommon. Part of it is that people view them as a tool.

[sfscott]

Meanwhile in Philadelphia....

[akelman]

BS, could have been a knife and the result could be the same.

Hard warning right now, you or anyone else tries to take this into a gun control/ political slant and time outs will be given.

you have been warned.







W.

I have nothing but respect for the time you put into keeping this place going. I'm genuinely grateful to you and the other mods. But this post is garbage. You're guilty of doing what you're telling other people is against the rules. And in addition to that, you're likely wrong about the point you're trying to make.

Feel free to give me all the timeouts you deem appropriate. Until you either retract your pro-gun argument or let other people speak their piece about what should be a non-partisan issue, I'm not willing to be silenced by empty threats (empty not because you can't ban me, but because I truly don't care if you do).

[Burnette]

One of the things I like about Paceline is that it encompasses our whole lives with on and off topic threads. I have learned and shared much and have come to appreciate many a stranger here.

In that vane it is possible to not so much debate but share what this incident has in common with us all. And that is to, at times, congregate with other like minded individuals (some real "A" types, let's admit) out on the road, some we know, some we may not. The people in this incident knew each other if only through contact from group rides so awareness of who you're riding with is key.

You can only control yourself in the end. I have left groups and dropped associates for behavior I observed that I didn't agree with. I gage a room or ride and when I sense something going off track I work to dissolve it or leave it.

The behavior of all in that video is disturbing and of all places and times, during a bike ride on the road is the last place to get into an altercation.

If the article is correct others were calling for the gunman to shoot and it looked as if he was trying to get up the nerve to do it. In the early stages of that incident I would be thinking "why the hell am I around people doing this now?"

And if it were possible, as soon as an argument starts I would have rode off to extract myself from that situation.

The world is a crazy place, be careful who you let into yours.

[spoonrobot]

Unlikely. People typically defend themselves with their forearms against a knife.

Most people are knife owners, yet stabbings are fairly uncommon. Part of it is that people view them as a tool.

I wouldn't call ~12% of all murders committed in the US per year from knives
"uncommon"

Knives and cutting instruments are the second most common method of murder, after handguns.

[jtbadge]

I have nothing but respect for the time you put into keeping this place going. I'm genuinely grateful to you and the other mods. But this post is garbage. You're guilty of doing what you're telling other people is against the rules. And in addition to that, you're likely wrong about the point you're trying to make.

Feel free to give me all the timeouts you deep appropriate. Until you either retract your pro-gun argument or let other people speak their piece about what should be a non-partisan issue, I'm not willing to be silenced by empty threats (empty not because you can't ban me, but because I truly don't care if you do).

I agree, and can't believe we have to go over this again. Another day, another inciting post from a moderator. Don't want politics in this forum? Start at the top.

[54ny77]

Why isn't anyone talking about SRAM on SRAM violence?

I saw a bike last weekend with a clash of Red AND Force.

[CunegoFan]

I agree, and can't believe we have to go over this again. Another day, another inciting post from a moderator. Don't want politics in this forum? Start at the top.

You are complaining about the moderator trying to stop a thread from turning into a political quagmire while agreeing with a poster who declares he intends to drop a smelly turd in someone's living room and doesn't care if they kick him out of the house for doing it? Nice.

[jtbadge]

Hot takes everywhere!

[William]

My response was specifically to the comment…

If there wasn´t a gun on the scene, the cyclist would be alive.

My point was, that wasn’t necessarily true or accurate. Someone willing to go to that point could also have used a knife, a blunt instrument, or even started fighting and caused the other person to die by hitting his head. It unfortunately happens often. Could I have said it more succinctly, sure, but my point remains. It’s not pro gun, it’s pro reality.

History of similar comments and where they have headed in past threads is the reason for the warning from that point forward.





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[William]

Unlikely. People typically defend themselves with their forearms against a knife.

Most people are knife owners, yet stabbings are fairly uncommon. Part of it is that people view them as a tool.


I'm pretty sure I know where that can end up and what a knife can do much more than just about anyone here. So yes, I have an idea of what I'm talking about.






W.

[Burnette]

I think we've lost personal depth in that when something happens there's a tendency to pull out argumentative talking points in lieu of actually processing th occurrence and sharing what is common to us all and how we would process, react to or even prevent such a situation.

Hammering a divisive point, as we've encountered here and most any other forum we frequent, will find no purchase and instead it will stifle sharing and understanding.

We're cyclist, this incident happened on a group ride. Surely we can see, through those eyes, how we could somehow get untangled in such a situation. And as cyclist, what would we do to personally to create a better outcome?

[jtbadge]

One option would be "hey, please don't go down this road," instead of "I'm going to argue this point that I don't like to the ground" and driving the bus down that exact road that is expressly against the rules of this forum.

[tctyres]

I wouldn't call ~12% of all murders committed in the US per year from knives
"uncommon"

Knives and cutting instruments are the second most common method of murder, after handguns.

True, but it's much less common.

Per capita, it's 6 stabbings per million people. Firearms have a rate almost 10x that.

[William]

One option would be "hey, please don't go down this road," instead of "I'm going to argue this point that I don't like to the ground" and driving the bus down that exact road that is expressly against the rules of this forum.

You can talk about deescalation tactics all you want, just don't turn this into a pro/anti gun debate, that's all.






W.

[peanutgallery]

You guys just got trolled...by a moderator...again

They do a great job...with bikes...but the OT stuff goes off the rails...quickly. Brings out the worst...don't know if you're a bunch of Nancys, Marthas, Stans or Chads. We're a small tribe, gather around this tragedy and support the victim. This is a terrible incident of people that can't get along with others

Just lock this thread, puhleeeze

[colker]

You can talk about deescalation tactics all you want, just don't turn this into a pro/anti gun debate, that's all.







W.


Then.. what is this about? Isn´t it about being safe? How to avoid the gun issue in "man shoots cyclist"? HOw are you safe when harrassment involves guns?

[joosttx]

Under similar circumstances, honestly thought this was going to happen to me earlier this year.

Hi Houston!

How am I involved with this?

[mtechnica]

No, I told you (and everyone in general) not to run the thread down the gun debate rabbit hole. It is a political and highly charged subject.

From the User Agreement:

This place is not...


The gun control debate definitely falls under this category.


W.

This is bull **** that gun control is considered such a touchy “partisan” subject that its taboo in a thread that’s literally about a guy being shot. If you’re an NRA trump supporting F uck that thinks it’s ok to shoot a cyclist then F u end of discussion. I’m sick of not being able to speak my mind at the risk of offending some conservative snowflake. Go ahead and ban me for all I care because I’ll die on this hill.

[joosttx]

I have nothing but respect for the time you put into keeping this place going. I'm genuinely grateful to you and the other mods. But this post is garbage. You're guilty of doing what you're telling other people is against the rules. And in addition to that, you're likely wrong about the point you're trying to make.

Feel free to give me all the timeouts you deem appropriate. Until you either retract your pro-gun argument or let other people speak their piece about what should be a non-partisan issue, I'm not willing to be silenced by empty threats (empty not because you can't ban me, but because I truly don't care if you do).

Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight.

[mtechnica]

You can talk about deescalation tactics all you want, just don't turn this into a pro/anti gun debate, that's all.






W.

Bro this is a thread about one of our own being SHOT and you’re like oh nows not the time for a gun debate. I guess you should run for Congress hahaha

[peanutgallery]

Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight.

For some...only on the group ride. Sorry for the quip

Lock the thread...seriously ...and think about the victim. We are a tiny tribe

[gasman]

A fellow cyclist was killed. We can discuss a lot about it but inappropriate language won't be tolerated mtechnica.

I'm upset by all the violence in the country and in the world.

[joosttx]

For some...only on the group ride. Sorry for the quip

Lock the thread...seriously ...and think about the victim. We are a tiny tribe

The killing must stop. Just pointing out the absurdity of Williams comment.


I think one of the big issues is tribalism. I get what you are saying but what brings us together divides us with others.

[William]

This is bull **** that gun control is considered such a touchy “partisan” subject that its taboo in a thread that’s literally about a guy being shot. If you’re an NRA trump supporting F uck that thinks it’s ok to shoot a cyclist then F u end of discussion. I’m sick of not being able to speak my mind at the risk of offending some conservative snowflake. Go ahead and ban me for all I care because I’ll die on this hill.


~And~..This is exactly the reason for the warning, some people can't discuss without going off the rails. History here has proved it time and again, I hoped that we could let it go with despite a few people trying to shut it down. Guess not.


Closed






W.