Dry Lube?

[oldguy00]

Dumb question #843.....

What makes a dry lube 'dry'??

I have speedplay zero pedals, been using for 10+ years (not same pair :) ) and have always been very bad about lubricating the cleats as recommended by speedplay.

They recommend a dry lube. I've read online that many folks like liquid wrench dry, but that doesn't seem to be available in Canada.
I have some finish Line 'dry' lube (red/black bottle), but it is a liquid oil....so what makes it 'dry'? Does it evaporate quickly?

Any other recommendations for a good clean lubricant for speedplay cleats that is easy to find? And I know speedplay sells their own, but I can't find that anywhere in Canada either...

Thx!

[ScottW]

Dry means the liquid carrier evaporates and leaves behind a solid, such as Teflon (TM) or graphite or wax.

[AngryScientist]

if you go to ANY auto parts store, you will see several brands of aerosol dry lube cans. pick literally any one of those and you're good to go for speedplay cleats.

[oldguy00]

if you go to ANY auto parts store, you will see several brands of aerosol dry lube cans. pick literally any one of those and you're good to go for speedplay cleats.

Thanks guys. I just read up more on the finish line stuff I have, yeah it says it sets up dry after the wet application. Any reason to use anything other than this on the cleats? I did just send an email to Speedplay asking, so maybe will hear back from them as well...

Cheers

[Tony]

Been using Squirt the last several years, works great, long lasting.

[Mikej]

Generally, dry lubes dot fair well in water / wet conditions. I also feel it wears quicker than non-dry lube and takes quite a bit more to get a chain lubed up. But, dry lubes such as squirt and rock n roll are well liked by many.

[Tony]

Generally, dry lubes dot fair well in water / wet conditions. I also feel it wears quicker than non-dry lube and takes quite a bit more to get a chain lubed up. But, dry lubes such as squirt and rock n roll are well liked by many.

Agree, don't use it on my chains, just my speedplay cleats

[weiwentg]

Agree, don't use it on my chains, just my speedplay cleats

Speaking of lubes like this: White Lightning. It's junk for chains. As a new rider, I read the marketing pitch on the bottle and I thought, wow, this has to be the dope. No, it was not. However, it is fine for Speedplay cleats.

That's not to say it's necessarily the best lube for SP cleats out there, but it seems like Speedplay's early literature may (https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/631239-white-lightning-wax-lube-suitable-lubing-speedplay-cleats.html) actually have recommended it for their cleats.

[rlanger]

Finish Line is perfect for your cleats. Been using it on my SPs for a while and it works well.

[soulspinner]

Have been using Pro Gold for years. Went to my local shop and the woman behind the counter just handed me Finish line dry. Seems I now can hear my Campy chain after cleaning applying it. With Pro Gold I never heard the chain. Sound familiar?

[oldpotatoe]

Dumb question #843.....

What makes a dry lube 'dry'??

I have speedplay zero pedals, been using for 10+ years (not same pair :) ) and have always been very bad about lubricating the cleats as recommended by speedplay.

They recommend a dry lube. I've read online that many folks like liquid wrench dry, but that doesn't seem to be available in Canada.
I have some finish Line 'dry' lube (red/black bottle), but it is a liquid oil....so what makes it 'dry'? Does it evaporate quickly?

Any other recommendations for a good clean lubricant for speedplay cleats that is easy to find? And I know speedplay sells their own, but I can't find that anywhere in Canada either...

Thx!

I spray with Lemon Pledge..the idea is them to be lubed so you can get into and outta them..NO need for a specific lube, wet or dry..they like 'dry' cuz the cleat gets less gunked up..which can lead to not getting out of them.

[joshatsilca]

SP's need dry lube to allow the C spring to expand and contract within the cleat. This spring is what clips into the pedal and is sandwiched between plates in the cleat itself.. you don't need much as it doesn't have to move much but you want lube on those surfaces. You want it dry as you walk on the ground and don't want to be picking up dirt or leaving C shaped oil stains on the floor

Lemon Pledge works great, it's a silicone that is super low viscosity and will penetrate well before drying, same with white lightning or any of the other dry PTFE in alcohol base lubes. I'd avoid any of the graphite or 'ceramic' dry lubes as those particulates are dark in color and will also lead to staining on some flooring, especially carpet.

Having said all that, You DO NOT EVER want to use any of these on your chain. Dry chain lube is probably the most successful scam in all of cycling.. you have to use tons of it consistently to keep your loud chain from getting louder and all the while is is sucking watts out of your drivetrain in the form of friction while also leading to much faster wear of the chain and other drivetrain components. Friends don't let friends use dry chain lube. Period.

[fmradio516]

anyone wanna buy some dry lube?

:banana:

[soulspinner]

SP's need dry lube to allow the C spring to expand and contract within the cleat. This spring is what clips into the pedal and is sandwiched between plates in the cleat itself.. you don't need much as it doesn't have to move much but you want lube on those surfaces. You want it dry as you walk on the ground and don't want to be picking up dirt or leaving C shaped oil stains on the floor

Lemon Pledge works great, it's a silicone that is super low viscosity and will penetrate well before drying, same with white lightning or any of the other dry PTFE in alcohol base lubes. I'd avoid any of the graphite or 'ceramic' dry lubes as those particulates are dark in color and will also lead to staining on some flooring, especially carpet.

Having said all that, You DO NOT EVER want to use any of these on your chain. Dry chain lube is probably the most successful scam in all of cycling.. you have to use tons of it consistently to keep your loud chain from getting louder and all the while is is sucking watts out of your drivetrain in the form of friction while also leading to much faster wear of the chain and other drivetrain components. Friends don't let friends use dry chain lube. Period.

Oh.

[Tony]

SP's need dry lube to allow the C spring to expand and contract within the cleat. This spring is what clips into the pedal and is sandwiched between plates in the cleat itself.. you don't need much as it doesn't have to move much but you want lube on those surfaces. You want it dry as you walk on the ground and don't want to be picking up dirt or leaving C shaped oil stains on the floor

Lemon Pledge works great, it's a silicone that is super low viscosity and will penetrate well before drying, same with white lightning or any of the other dry PTFE in alcohol base lubes. I'd avoid any of the graphite or 'ceramic' dry lubes as those particulates are dark in color and will also lead to staining on some flooring, especially carpet.

Having said all that, You DO NOT EVER want to use any of these on your chain. Dry chain lube is probably the most successful scam in all of cycling.. you have to use tons of it consistently to keep your loud chain from getting louder and all the while is is sucking watts out of your drivetrain in the form of friction while also leading to much faster wear of the chain and other drivetrain components. Friends don't let friends use dry chain lube. Period.

According to this test wax rules if one wants to reducing friction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qinJjb8_nEs

[simplemind]

DuPont Chain Saver (https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Chain-Saver-Self-Cleaning-Lubricant-14-Ounce/dp/B00D3G6FD4/ref=sr_1_3?crid=UIY3HIOWCRHY&keywords=dupont+chain+saver&qid=1565707307&s=gateway&sprefix=dupont%2Caps%2C194&sr=8-3) is the one. I use for cleat and chain. Probably the best on the market.

[Mark McM]

Having said all that, You DO NOT EVER want to use any of these on your chain. Dry chain lube is probably the most successful scam in all of cycling.. you have to use tons of it consistently to keep your loud chain from getting louder and all the while is is sucking watts out of your drivetrain in the form of friction while also leading to much faster wear of the chain and other drivetrain components. Friends don't let friends use dry chain lube. Period.

Does wax (or wax based lube) count as a dry lube? Wax and wax based lubes have done very well on chain friction tests (such as the Friction Facts/Ceramic Speed tests: https://www.ceramicspeed.com/media/3505/velonews-friction-facts-chain-lube-tests-combined.pdf) and also fairly well in chain lube endurance tests (such as the Zero Friction Cycling tests: https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/fast-chain-lube-that-saves-you-money/). Teflon based dry lubes have also done well friction tests.

[oldguy00]

Thanks all.

And for my chain, I long ago became a molten speed wax convert. :)

Just freshly waxed my chain for Ironman Mont Tremblant this coming weekend!

[simplemind]

Having said all that, You DO NOT EVER want to use any of these on your chain. Dry chain lube is probably the most successful scam in all of cycling.. you have to use tons of it consistently to keep your loud chain from getting louder and all the while is is sucking watts out of your drivetrain in the form of friction while also leading to much faster wear of the chain and other drivetrain components. Friends don't let friends use dry chain lube. Period.

Just plain wrong info here! Either ignorant or obtained bad information. Ever hear of "abrasive slurry"? Well, that's what happens when you use an oil based lube on a chain. Please site your resource!

[Rusty Luggs]

Just plain wrong info here! Either ignorant or obtained bad information. Ever hear of "abrasive slurry"? Well, that's what happens when you use an oil based lube on a chain. Please site your resource!

And your resource? I know Josh's and they are based on testing and measurement, not data-free proclamations and presumptions.

[simplemind]

And your resource? I know Josh's and they are based on testing and measurement, not data-free proclamations and presumptions.

As I said, I would like to see the data. If it's accurate, I'll be glad rescind my statement.

[Rusty Luggs]

As I said, I would like to see the data. If it's accurate, I'll be glad rescind my statement.

No, you flat out declared him WRONG and IGNORANT. Very different than just asking for information.
Just thought I would point out that you demanded someone else support their statement when you didn't support your own.

And I don't actually care enough what chain lube you use to bother finding you links to the data.

[joshatsilca]

Just plain wrong info here! Either ignorant or obtained bad information. Ever hear of "abrasive slurry"? Well, that's what happens when you use an oil based lube on a chain. Please site your resource!

So this has been confirmed by both Friction Facts in the original data set that is now hard to find (I have it..) as well as Adam Kerin's work at ZeroFrictionCycling who has done some significant testing with various abrasives to test this. You can see there work HERE (https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au).

So the data show (and our 20 years working with ProTour teams also shows) is that dry lube leads to higher friction and greater chain wear than wet. I've also seen data sets validating this from SRAM (whom I used to work for) as well as Izumi.

The theory/though experiment here is to think about the mechanics of the chain pins and plates. If we have lube in the plate/plate interface and inside the pin/hole space.. it's actually pretty hard for a particle to get in as it has to displace the oil or wax. If the oil is modified with something to make it adhere to the metal, then this gets even harder.. Now with 'dry lube' the alcohol carries a tiny amount of PTFE powder or similar into these areas and then 90% of it evaporates way, leaving empty space which can easily be loaded with dust, dirt,sand, etc.. So we've seen that dry lubes generally end up with more particulates inside the pin holes than wet lubes.

Now, even if we assume that this isn't true.. let's assume that equal amounts of particulates end up in the pins wet or dry. So we think about sanding paint.. if I give you 800 grit sand paper to sand on some fresh paint, you burn right through it in a few seconds.. but if you do it under water or on top of a few drops of oil.. you just slightly rough the paint rather than cut through it. This is why we wet sand paint rather than dry sand when we paint a surface. So even if we get 10 grains of sand in each link.. the chain with that sand and the few specs of PTFE run dry will see far more abrasive cutting of the surfaces than it would if you had a low friction lube in there to slow the rate of cutting of the abrasive.

So on one hand, yes, the abrasive slurry thing is real.. but at the same time, the data show that with wet lube you get less abrasive inside the chain AND you have the reduced cutting action of that abrasive due to the presence of the lube.

[Bob Ross]

I have some finish Line 'dry' lube (red/black bottle), but it is a liquid oil....so what makes it 'dry'?

No fcukin idea, but Finish Line "Dry" in the red/black bottle is what I've used to lube my Speedplay cleats for ~13 years now, so you're in good hands, just keep on keepin' on and don't sweat the details.

[simplemind]

So this has been confirmed by both Friction Facts in the original data set that is now hard to find (I have it..) as well as Adam Kerin's work at ZeroFrictionCycling who has done some significant testing with various abrasives to test this. You can see there work HERE (https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au).


Looks like their data shows (dry) Molten Speed wax to be significantly better than any of their other tested lubricants...no?

Also, when sanding, as you mentioned, water or oil is used to flush out debris between the grit, ie to keep a clean edge for the abrasive to be more efficient. Not exactly what you want in a lubrication system, ie the old abrasive slurry.

If I were you and Bob Ross, I would continue to use whatever oil you would like. I will continue to use and recommend a friction modified wax as I have for 20+ trouble free years. :)

[soulspinner]

Not sure about much but after cleaning and re applying Finish Line dry I still hear my chain. Best wet lube then?

[oldguy00]

Not sure about much but after cleaning and re applying Finish Line dry I still hear my chain. Best wet lube then?

I'm not sure sound is the best indicator? Molten speed wax has been shown a few times to be the fastest out there, yet I don't think it is the most silent.

But the thing I really love about the wax is it is SO clean. No more oily dirt build up, I can grab my chain to take my wheel off (horizontal dropouts) and nothing gets on my hands, sparkling clean drivetrain all the time, etc.

[R3awak3n]

NFS is excellent as always.

I did recently try rock and roll extreme and its very good as well

[El Chaba]

It's been a while since the last knock down drag out chain lube fight....

[soulspinner]

I'm not sure sound is the best indicator? Molten speed wax has been shown a few times to be the fastest out there, yet I don't think it is the most silent.

But the thing I really love about the wax is it is SO clean. No more oily dirt build up, I can grab my chain to take my wheel off (horizontal dropouts) and nothing gets on my hands, sparkling clean drivetrain all the time, etc.

Little bro used to use some kind of wax in the 80s. PIA to apply as he did heat it first.

[oldguy00]

Little bro used to use some kind of wax in the 80s. PIA to apply as he did heat it first.

I can definitely see how some people would find it too time consuming.
I've been 'wrenching' my own bikes for close to 30 years now and enjoy the whole process. And it is really quite easy, turn on the crock pot and throw chain in. Go back 40 minutes later and give it a good stir, go back 15 minutes later and remove to hang to dry. Install back on bike whenever. I just do it any time I happen to be hanging around the house for the evening..

[oldguy00]

It's been a while since the last knock down drag out chain lube fight....

I know, I feel bad, lol. I really should have titled the thread "What do I put on my speedplay cleats" !!!!

[Bob Ross]

NFS is excellent as always.

Since you mentioned it: I once asked Josh Simonds whether NFS is an effective lube for Speedplay cleats and, no surprise, he insisted it is. But -- and perhaps this is germane -- he suggested it be applied sparingly and then wiped off immediately, which is not how I typically lube my cleats when using Finish Line Dry.

[joshatsilca]

Looks like their data shows (dry) Molten Speed wax to be significantly better than any of their other tested lubricants...no?

Also, when sanding, as you mentioned, water or oil is used to flush out debris between the grit, ie to keep a clean edge for the abrasive to be more efficient. Not exactly what you want in a lubrication system, ie the old abrasive slurry.

If I were you and Bob Ross, I would continue to use whatever oil you would like. I will continue to use and recommend a friction modified wax as I have for 20+ trouble free years. :)

I see now, you are considering wax a 'dry lube'... they are NOT the same. Look at my characterization of dry lube in my original statement and my inclusion of wax behaviors in the behaviors of wet lube.. I also should have used tumbling instead of wet sanding as my thought experiment, but still, sanding in the presence of lube is less cutting than sanding dry..same for tumbling.

Dry lube is a small percentage of particulates floating in a volatile carrier that flashes off when exposed to air. So something like White Lightning is ~10% ptfe particles in an alcohol, you shake it, the particles mix and then apply it and they flow everywhere and then stay stuck to the metal after the liquid dries off.

Wax on the other hand, fills all the voids and stays put.. making it very hard to particulates to enter. I've put more than 50 world, olympic and TdF champions on waxed chains in 20+ years of doing this.. for racing it's the only way to go. However, most people don't want to spend the time and for them I say wet lube because dry lube doesn't work.

Now there are some waxes like Wend and Squirt that are trying to be hybrids.. but testing has shown that they just don't work like dipped wax. The Friction Facts data in particular was a bit misleading as his protocol had him dipping the chains in the lube and soaking them them to achieve full penetration.. which made something like squirt behave like hot wax, but in reality, applying it as you would normally do, does not give you nearly the same results. Wend is the same way, if you heat it and use it, it's great, if you apply it like you see on the internet it's just pretty but only works OK.

Adam at ZeroFriction nails it when he said, use molten wax, and if not, use NFS.

[oldpotatoe]

It's been a while since the last knock down drag out chain lube fight....

no kidding..probably be tubulars and sram next...:eek:
Winter is a-comin I guess...it's not like lubing the hinges of the front door to the ISS..

[Moyboy]

What ultrasonic unit are you using? so many on Amazon

Thanks all.

And for my chain, I long ago became a molten speed wax convert. :)

Just freshly waxed my chain for Ironman Mont Tremblant this coming weekend!