2019-2020 Football / Calcio / Futbol / Fußball Thread

[echappist]

And the first game of the Premier League is already underway. Not much to see, other than the fact that Allison is out injured. Looked really gnarly (seems like he tweaked his hamstring during the goal kick), reminded me of the injury Tim Howard suffered a few years back. Hope he's okay, as it'd be a real blow to LFC's title challenges.

Whom do you have as the winners of the various competitions? I'm hoping that LFC and BVB can both move one spot higher (at the expense of Pep's current and former teams). Juventus may just get shaken up a bit, now it's coached by Sarri. I wouldn't be surprised if his shoehorning catches up to him with the wily Ancelloti pips him.

[Gsinill]

And the first game of the Premier League is already underway. Not much to see, other than the fact that Allison is out injured. Looked really gnarly (seems like he tweaked his hamstring during the goal kick), reminded me of the injury Tim Howard suffered a few years back. Hope he's okay, as it'd be a real blow to LFC's title challenges.

Whom do you have as the winners of the various competitions? I'm hoping that LFC and BVB can both move one spot higher (at the expense of Pep's current and former teams). Juventus may just get shaken up a bit, now it's coached by Sarri. I wouldn't be surprised if his shoehorning catches up to him with the wily Ancelloti pips him.

Klopp fan?

[echappist]

not quite, but I do admire his coaching philosophy and managerial capabilities.

[goonster]

Jürgen Klopp is the coolest German of the last two hundred years. Fight me.

Tied for distant second: Jochen Distelmeyer, Jaki Liebezeit, Florian Schneider.

[martl]

Jürgen Klopp is the coolest German of the last two hundred years. Fight me.

Gladly... Klopp is witty, intelligent, clearly an excellent coach, can be very charming. Uses said fact to cover that he can be very, very petty. Uncool.

As a german myself, i should stay away from counter-suggestions. Just one, Lutz Pfannenstiel. Turned down a Bayern Munich offer at age 17 to go globetrotting, played professional on 5 continents.

1991–1993 1. FC Bad Kötzting 68 (0)
1993–1994 Penang FA 12 (0)
1994–1995 Wimbledon 12 (0)
1995–1997 Nottingham Forest 0 (0)
1996–1997 → Orlando Pirates (loan) 7 (0)
1997 TPV 8 (0)
1997 FC Haka 0 (0)
1998–1999 SV Wacker Burghausen 14 (0)
1999–2000 Geylang United 46 (0)
2001 Dunedin Technical 18 (0)
2001–2002 → Bradford Park Avenue (loan) 1 (0)
2001–2002 Huddersfield Town 0 (0)
2002 Dunedin Technical 18 (0)
2002 ASV Cham 12 (0)
2002–2003 → Bradford Park Avenue (loan) 14 (0)
2003 Dunedin Technical 18 (0)
2003 → Bærum SK (loan) 13 (0)
2004 Calgary Mustangs 28 (0)
2004–2006 Otago United 36 (0)
2006–2007 Vllaznia Shkodër 14 (0)
2007 Bentonit Ijevan 12 (0)
2007 Bærum SK 9 (0)
2007 Vancouver Whitecaps 4 (0)
2008 Hermann Aichinger 24 (0)
2008–2009 Flekkerøy IL 14 (0)
2009 Manglerud Star 11 (0)
2009–2011 Ramblers 45 (0)

[wc1934]

Jürgen Klopp is the coolest German of the last two hundred years. Fight me.

Tied for distant second: Jochen Distelmeyer, Jaki Liebezeit, Florian Schneider.

No consideration (as a footballer) for "Der Kaiser" - won world cups both as a player and manager.

[goonster]

Beckenbauer? Corruption is not cool.

I had forgotten about Bernd Trautmann. He deserves consideration.

[Climb01742]

Jürgen Klopp is the coolest German of the last two hundred years. Fight me.

Tied for distant second: Jochen Distelmeyer, Jaki Liebezeit, Florian Schneider.

Werner Herzog?

[wc1934]

Beckenbauer? Corruption is not cool.

I had forgotten about Bernd Trautmann. He deserves consideration.

Yup - agree fraud and corruption are not cool. Of course he was complicit in influencing votes with his slush fund etc. In that regards, I believe he is guilty as charged. I was referring to him only in the context of footballer.

[echappist]

Is Trautmann the guy who won a FA Cup while playing with a broken neck?

[Spaghetti Legs]

Jürgen Klopp is the coolest German of the last two hundred years. Fight me.

Tied for distant second: Jochen Distelmeyer, Jaki Liebezeit, Florian Schneider.

Dieter. Hands down coolest German

[wc1934]

Is Trautmann the guy who won a FA Cup while playing with a broken neck?

Yup.
But google his early history - he signed up for the wrong "team" - worse than corruption and fraud.

[echappist]

Yup.
But google his early history - he signed up for the wrong "team" - worse than corruption and fraud.

right, i almost forgot that he was a paratrooper in the German Army. I donno if fighting in the Wehrmarcht as a foot solider (cf. a commissioned officer or being part of the SS) is worse than corruption and fraud. Yes, he was friends with a Dassler brother (a cynical backstabbing nazi), but i don't think he joined the SS. Now, if he committed war crimes, that'd be different, but there's a lot of gray when it comes to judging foot soldiers. In the same vein, I wouldn't call the Soviet soldiers in WWII as good. They are merely people licensed to carry out acts of sanctioned barbarism.

[Climb01742]

Arsenal's new jerseys, the yellow ones, the bruised banana ones, are ugly. Usually Addidas kit is simple and classic. Oy.

[wc1934]

Arsenal's new jerseys, the yellow ones, the bruised banana ones, are ugly. Usually Addidas kit is simple and classic. Oy.

They arent the only ones with ugly kits this year.
But their third kit is pretty classy.

[rst72]

i actually like arsenal's away. adidas did a good job on all 3 kits.

i saw a pic of the home jersey with the bruised banana themed name/numbers...not sure if legit or not.

[Climb01742]

They wore the yellow bruised banana at the weekend. The dark blue jersey is far better, though.

[Mzilliox]

Arsenal's new jerseys, the yellow ones, the bruised banana ones, are ugly. Usually Addidas kit is simple and classic. Oy.

i like the yellow kit a lot, and it has a historical significance for the club. and im more worried about their inability to create from the midfield than a jersey.

[echappist]

i like the yellow kit a lot, and it has a historical significance for the club. and im more worried about their inability to create from the midfield than a jersey.

what's the connection to Woolwich?

[Climb01742]

im more worried about their inability to create from the midfield than a jersey.

Fingers crossed that after a few league games, they'll be more creative, but yes, the pre-season and game 1 were not exactly confidence-inspiring. While other top teams came out blazing in game 1, the Gunners eked out a measly goal. Maybe the jersey will distract me?;):eek:

[echappist]

man, that LFC D looks rather porous... getting pulled out of shape by Chelsea's movement

edit: as if on queue, Chelsea scores (though from counter-attack, to be fair)

they look so much better with Kante beefing up their midfield. Also, first American assist in the Supercup

[echappist]

And LFC takes it on penalties, quite a bit past midnight in Instanbul

but the overall winner has to be...














Sheikty, of course, having seen two of its cohorts go 120 minutes in a mid-week match.

At least Chelsea gets an extra day. LFC needs to play again on Saturday morning, though granted, it's against a team that flirted with relegation last year. At least Firminho and TAA didn't have to play the whole 120...

[echappist]

an article on their club legend by the name of Xabi Alonso. He's apparently taken up a coaching role at Real Sociedad.

I started following soccer a bit late, so my first memories was him taking a kung-fu kick from de Jong.

Anyways, interesting perspectives from the man

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/13/xabi-alonso-real-madrid-liverpool-real-sociedad-management

[echappist]

All that money spent on a new DM, and all that money spent on a new outside back, and Sheikty still can't defend at home.

Of course, VAR stars yet again, but then again, a) it is the right call according to the rules, and b) the stadium didn't get nearly as loud the whole game as when their fair weather, bandwagon jumping fans booed VAR at the end

[Climb01742]

The shot differential was incredible. Spurs made theirs count. And it was correct VAR call. Maybe MC luck is evening out some?

[echappist]

I heard that the most recent rule change was made so that the way Llorentes scored in the Quarterfinals against City would no longer count

Just so happens that they were on the receiving end of adverse decisions, under both set of rules

Otoh, I thought Tottenham got really lucky, and Lloris (and the woodworks) came up huge for them. Just like last week, they played really compact, with their attacking players all jamming up the middle. Lamela and Eriksen nominally played as wingers, but both normally operate better in and between the channels, and that's how they positioned themselves. Having Winks, Sissoko, and Ndembele playing in the middle just seemed a bit too congested.

If they do play the diamond midfield, they need at least someone like Son or Moura to play as the forward who could stretch defenses out wide.

[wc1934]

All that money spent on a new DM, and all that money spent on a new outside back, and Sheikty still can't defend at home.

Of course, VAR stars yet again, but then again, a) it is the right call according to the rules, and b) the stadium didn't get nearly as loud the whole game as when their fair weather, bandwagon jumping fans booed VAR at the end

I am for VAR regarding offsides as that is a black and white call - either you are on side or you are not. Goal line is the same - either the entire ball crossed the goal or it didnt.
Handball is still open to interpretation, even with VAR so I would leave that solely to the ref.

[travis bickle]

My club.

[martl]

I am for VAR regarding offsides as that is a black and white call - either you are on side or you are not. Goal line is the same - either the entire ball crossed the goal or it didnt.
Handball is still open to interpretation, even with VAR so I would leave that solely to the ref.

i disagree. What does it help if we know with 100% certainty that the ball crossed the line, but the ref didn't see the foul or handball that lead to the shot...

[wc1934]

i disagree. What does it help if we know with 100% certainty that the ball crossed the line, but the ref didn't see the foul or handball that lead to the shot...

That's the game - the refs miss calls - fact of life.

Even with var calls are still subjective, with no certainty, as refs have the ultimate say even after review - still left to the discretion of the ref.

So for me, it takes away spontaneity and disrupts the momentum and movement of the game. But var is here and it's not going away, but I still don't like it.

[wc1934]

And I sure as heck don't want var calling balls and strikes in baseball games!

[Climb01742]

Arsenal v Liverpool should be a good early season test at the weekend. The Gunners won’t crush my hopes week 3 will they?

[Mzilliox]

Arsenal v Liverpool should be a good early season test at the weekend. The Gunners won’t crush my hopes week 3 will they?

i just hope we start our best lineup. need pepe and ceballos in there. not sure who will round out the midfield 3 but i hope its torreira and guendouzi. I have liked some things this season, but we are not playing fast or direct enough yet. it was painful watching them try to break burnleys press, as they couldnt do it until they brought on the more direct pepe. Nelson, the young winger, was not quite up to the task of breaking that press.

should be a brilliant game

[Climb01742]

i just hope we start our best lineup. need pepe and ceballos in there. not sure who will round out the midfield 3 but i hope its torreira and guendouzi. I have liked some things this season, but we are not playing fast or direct enough yet. it was painful watching them try to break burnleys press, as they couldnt do it until they brought on the more direct pepe. Nelson, the young winger, was not quite up to the task of breaking that press.

should be a brilliant game

Emery’s stamp on the club is beginning to crystallize. You’re right. Even with six points, the club has looked ragged, even a bit lethargic. But there are glimpses. I hope they’ll come together before MC and LIV get too far away. Please don’t make the CL’s fourth slot our ‘prize’ this season.

[echappist]

Arsenal v Liverpool should be a good early season test at the weekend. The Gunners won’t crush my hopes week 3 will they?

Sheiky vs Spurs last weekend, Man U v Chelsea the weekend before

what the hell is a neutral supposed to do when there are no more matches amongst big-6 teams left?

then again, perhaps we should be talking about big-7 teams. Have a suspicion that Wolves is going to sneak up on one of the putative big-6 teams

[Mzilliox]

Emery’s stamp on the club is beginning to crystallize. You’re right. Even with six points, the club has looked ragged, even a bit lethargic. But there are glimpses. I hope they’ll come together before MC and LIV get too far away. Please don’t make the CL’s fourth slot our ‘prize’ this season.

i think we did well to control both games, but i failed to see enough being created from the wings and from anyone not named dani ceballos or guendouzi. and we need to be less predictable. i like possession, but the backs need to use better judgement when to play a long ball to relieve pressure vs actually playing out of the back, and we need to make the passes much faster, before the other team can organize the press. Newcastle stacked it on us and defended with 10 or 11, and burnley pressed as hard as ive seen anyone press us in the last 2 years. lets see what arsenal can do vs a club that wants to play football.

[echappist]

i think we did well to control both games, but i failed to see enough being created from the wings and from anyone not named dani ceballos or guendouzi. and we need to be less predictable. i like possession, but the backs need to use better judgement when to play a long ball to relieve pressure vs actually playing out of the back, and we need to make the passes much faster, before the other team can organize the press. Newcastle stacked it on us and defended with 10 or 11, and burnley pressed as hard as ive seen anyone press us in the last 2 years. lets see what arsenal can do vs a club that wants to play football.

score a first goal and then let in five :p?

[axel23]

Ynwa!

my club.

[echappist]

damn, it's really unfair that Ajax, semi-finalist from last year, should have to go through two rounds of qualification just to reach the group stage. They did beat Juve and Real last year (sorry Ronaldo), and were this close to playing in the finals.

For all that trouble, they have to travel to the far reaches of Europe to qualify. Kind of a farce when the likes of Salzburg gets a direct route to the group stage...

[ltwtsculler91]

damn, it's really unfair that Ajax, semi-finalist from last year, should have to go through two rounds of qualification just to reach the group stage. They did beat Juve and Real last year (sorry Ronaldo), and were this close to playing in the finals.

For all that trouble, they have to travel to the far reaches of Europe to qualify. Kind of a farce when the likes of Salzburg gets a direct route to the group stage...

It all has to do with the league's performance over the previous years in UEFA competitions. No-one else in the Dutch league has done as well, so based on their country ranking, they're inserted at a specific stage as champions. Salzburg goes to the group stage as Austrian champions because they Austrian league has has better UEFA performances recently

[goonster]

Salzburg goes to the group stage as Austrian champions because they Austrian league has has better UEFA performances recently

Well, it's BS, because the Austrian league is sh*t, and the single defining aspect of RB Salzburg's identity of the last 10+ years is that they have never made it to the CL group stages through the qualifying rounds.

(I have followed the Austrian league since 1979.)

[echappist]

Well, it's BS, because the Austrian league is sh*t, and the single defining aspect of RB Salzburg's identity of the last 10+ years is that they have never made it to the CL group stages through the qualifying rounds.

(I have followed the Austrian league since 1979.)

well, to be fair to them, they at least beat Red Bull (i mean Rasenball Sport) Leipzig :p

as to ltwtsculler91's point, I understand how the UEFA coefficient work, but the whole thing is a bit capricious. Ajax has a club coefficient in the 21st place, which is above any of the entrants from Russia, Belgium, and Turkey (all of whom gets an auto invite to the group stage). In effect, one gets penalized for playing performances of other teams in the league...

[goonster]

they at least beat Red Bull (i mean Rasenball Sport) Leipzig :p

My favorite story there is the time a Salzburg defender wore a Leipzig jersey in a CL qual game, and nobody noticed until the post-match interviews.

I suppose Nike shipped it with his name and number, but the two clubs' jerseys were identical in every way, except for the text in the crest badge.

https://i0.wp.com/www.dirtytackle.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CnPgtAuWEAEfPLh.jpg

[martl]

Well, it's BS, because the Austrian league is sh*t, and the single defining aspect of RB Salzburg's identity of the last 10+ years is that they have never made it to the CL group stages through the qualifying rounds.

(I have followed the Austrian league since 1979.)

Austria? That's kangaroos with skiboots, correct?

(Linz may well qualify too, then they have two teams in the CL)

[goonster]

Austria? That's kangaroos with skiboots, correct?


Yes, and also where German composers go to advance their careers, eat better food, and terrorize landlords.

[echappist]

My favorite story there is the time a Salzburg defender wore a Leipzig jersey in a CL qual game, and nobody noticed until the post-match interviews.

I suppose Nike shipped it with his name and number, but the two clubs' jerseys were identical in every way, except for the text in the crest badge.

https://i0.wp.com/www.dirtytackle.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CnPgtAuWEAEfPLh.jpg

that's amazing; certainly got a chuckle out of me

and i think the context to all this is that UEFA once upon a time didn't allow two teams owned by the same entity to compete in the same competition (so okay for one in Champions League and one in Europa, but not simultaneously in both)

then UEFA managed to bend over backwards better than contortionist and allowed both to compete in the same competition. Wonder how much Red Bull greased its wheels...

Austria? That's kangaroos with skiboots, correct?

(Linz may well qualify too, then they have two teams in the CL)

surely you remember the nation whose national team schemed with your national team in the Anschluss of Gijon?

Yes, and also where German composers go to advance their careers, eat better food, and terrorize landlords.

i'm a bit spotty with my music history, which composer(s) is this?

[goonster]

i'm a bit spotty with my music history, which composer(s) is this?

Beethoven

[martl]

Yes, and also where German composers go to advance their careers, eat better food, and terrorize landlords.

We always send them our best and brightest, what do we get in return? bad painters.

[echappist]

That David Luiz, such a courteous gentleman. He thought he should extend the courtesies he showed Son last year to Salah. Fair play to the lad ;)

[Climb01742]

As the commentators said, they folded like a cheap suit. New uniforms but some hollow cavity where their heart and fight are supposed to be. When the Gunners go down 1-0, they might as well walk off the pitch.

[echappist]

@wc1934, you excited about the arrival of Chucky Lozanon?

[wc1934]

@wc1934, you excited about the arrival of Chucky Lozanon?

Definitely!!
He is 24 and they have him for 5 years. A great signing - James Rodriguez, who? Mauro, who?
One can never have enough scoring (look at today's game against the Viola-And talk about VAR - ugh)!
He is used to playing on the left and then cuts right to strike with his stronger foot. Will he play behind Insigne on the left or will they move him to the right?
Hope he plays next week against Sarri and CR7.

[echappist]

Definitely!!
He is 24 and they have him for 5 years. A great signing - James Rodriguez, who? Mauro, who?
One can never have enough scoring (look at today's game against the Viola-And talk about VAR - ugh)!
He is used to playing on the left and then cuts right to strike with his stronger foot. Will he play behind Insigne on the left or will they move him to the right?
Hope he plays next week against Sarri and CR7.

that VAR-decided penalty for Viola was utter s***e. So close to the armpit, accidental, etc etc. You must have had a helluva time watch it; that was a nail-biter of a game. I'd be knackered watching it if i weren't a neutral

Didn't realize we'd have a 6-pointer at the top so early. Perhaps we'll get three teams jousting for the scudetto this year. Something tells me that Conte may just be a bit too shrewd for Sarri. Not sure about relative strength against Ancelotti though

[wc1934]

that VAR-decided penalty for Viola was utter s***e. So close to the armpit, accidental, etc etc. You must have had a helluva time watch it; that was a nail-biter of a game. I'd be knackered watching it if i weren't a neutral

Didn't realize we'd have a 6-pointer at the top so early. Perhaps we'll get three teams jousting for the scudetto this year. Something tells me that Conte may just be a bit too shrewd for Sarri. Not sure about relative strength against Ancelotti though

Ref and VAR had a terrible game. The rule states that a handball must be a deliberate handling of the ball. Zielinski had his arm out fighting off the defender behind him. The ball was kneed up and under his arm. VAR confirmed.

2 other major occasions where the Ref didnt consult VAR: Mertens trip which resulted in a PK, and at the very end of the game Ribery was pulled down inside the box. Both major assists to Napoli so I am very happy, but clearly the lack of consistency will become a problem.

The Viola's new owner (Columbia grad) was at the game. Their new shirts have his cable company's name on the front - I liked the old Save the Children kit.

[echappist]

Ref and VAR had a terrible game. The rule states that a handball must be a deliberate handling of the ball. Zielinski had his arm out fighting off the defender behind him. The ball was kneed up and under his arm. VAR confirmed.

2 other major occasions where the Ref didnt consult VAR: Mertens trip which resulted in a PK, and at the very end of the game Ribery was pulled down inside the box. Both major assists to Napoli so I am very happy, but clearly the lack of consistency will become a problem.


one should always be happy when one of the master of the dark arts get his comeuppance.


The Viola's new owner (Columbia grad) was at the game. Their new shirts have his cable company's name on the front - I liked the old Save the Children kit.

i didn't know about this. Thanks for the info :)

-----------------------------------------------------------

btw, i've taken an interest in Union Berlin, who went up to the Bundesliga by scoring more away goals than the 16th place Bundesliga team

its fans literally paid with blood (money obtained by giving blood, donated to the club) and sweat (work to renovate the stadium) to keep the club alive and solvent. Quite a remarkable story in the age of soulless plastic clubs such as PSG and Sheiky.

Article here (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/17/union-berlin-bundesliga-quite-special-here)for those who prefer to read

and here for a well-produced short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53rVbJwMhYI

[Climb01742]

Thanks for the video link. FC Union is a really cool, and winding, story. Glad a club like that can survive.

[wc1934]

one should always be happy when one of the master of the dark arts get his comeuppance.



i didn't know about this. Thanks for the info :)

-----------------------------------------------------------

btw, i've taken an interest in Union Berlin, who went up to the Bundesliga by scoring more away goals than the 16th place Bundesliga team

its fans literally paid with blood (money obtained by giving blood, donated to the club) and sweat (work to renovate the stadium) to keep the club alive and solvent. Quite a remarkable story in the age of soulless plastic clubs such as PSG and Sheiky.

Article here (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/17/union-berlin-bundesliga-quite-special-here)for those who prefer to read

and here for a well-produced short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53rVbJwMhYI

Yeah he was born in southern Italy (wonder if he was a Napoli or Palermo or Messina fan as a kid - bet definitely not a Viloa fan - haha). Went to Columbia - donated - and got the soccer complex named after him. Part owner of the Cosmos. Tried to purchase AC Milan but it fell thru. Pretty interesting guy who seems fully committed to the game.

The Union link was interesting - love the history!

[echappist]

Thanks for the video link. FC Union is a really cool, and winding, story. Glad a club like that can survive.

you are welcome

btw, you psyched about the derby next weekend? unlike the Gunners, whose game yesterday had bright points (Luiz clowning aside), I can't say there's anything positive from the way Spurs played relegation contenders Newcastle today. Just awful...

[Climb01742]

you are welcome

btw, you psyched about the derby next weekend? unlike the Gunners, whose game yesterday had bright points (Luiz clowning aside), I can't say there's anything positive from the way Spurs played relegation contenders Newcastle today. Just awful...

Well, I hope Spurs keep their level of play we’re it was today. ;) Though the Gunners will probably play down to it. Arsenal has talent but it hasn’t yet added up to something remarkable. As has been Arsenal’s way the last decade, they seem to think that stringing together passes is somehow a victory in itself. Teams like LIV and MC make fewer passes with purpose count more.

[wc1934]

Champions league:

Pot one: Barcelona, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Paris Saint-Germain, Zenit

Pot two: Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli, Tottenham, Shakhtar Donetsk, Ajax, Benfica

Pot three: Lyon, Bayer Leverkusen, Salzburg, Olympiacos, Club Brugge, Dinamo Zagreb, Inter, Valencia

Pot four: Lokomotiv Moscow, Genk, Red Star Belgrade, RB Leipzig, Lille, Atalanta, Slavia Prague, Galatasaray

[echappist]

Champions league:

Pot one: Barcelona, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Paris Saint-Germain, Zenit

Pot two: Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli, Tottenham, Shakhtar Donetsk, Ajax, Benfica

Pot three: Lyon, Bayer Leverkusen, Salzburg, Olympiacos, Club Brugge, Dinamo Zagreb, Inter, Valencia

Pot four: Lokomotiv Moscow, Genk, Red Star Belgrade, RB Leipzig, Lille, Atalanta, Slavia Prague, Galatasaray

That actually looks decent, though no one would want to be drawn with Inter (and perhaps Leipzig)

Zenit in Pot A is a bit of a joke though

[wc1934]

[QUOTE=echappist;2586675]That actually looks decent, though no one would want to be drawn with Inter (and perhaps Leipzig)

Zenit in Pot A is a bit of a joke though[/QUOTE


I am glad that Ajax qualified

[echappist]

I am glad that Ajax qualified

You and me both

Did you know that the starting right back for Ajax is called into the USMNT camp?

Barely 18, I think, and also apparently plays left back(that perrenial sore spot)

[wc1934]

Napoli against Liverpool - AGAIN!!!

Group A

Paris Saint-Germain

Real Madrid

Club Brugge

Galatasaray



Group B

Bayern Munich

Tottenham Hotspur

Olympiacos

Red Star Belgrade



Group C

Manchester City

Shakhtar Donetsk

Dinamo Zagreb

Atalanta



Group D

Juventus

Atletico Madrid

Bayer Leverkusen

Lokomotiv Moscow



Group E

Liverpool

Napoli

RB Salzburg

Genk



Group F

Barcelona

Borussia Dortmund

Inter

Slavia Prague



Group G

Zenit St Petersburg

Benfica

Lyon

RB Leipzig



Group H

Chelsea

Ajax

Valencia

Lille

[wc1934]

You and me both

Did you know that the starting right back for Ajax is called into the USMNT camp?

Barely 18, I think, and also apparently plays left back(that perrenial sore spot)
and guess where he was born?

[echappist]

Napoli against Liverpool - AGAIN!!!
Group F

Barcelona

Borussia Dortmund

Inter

Slavia Prague



Group G

Zenit St Petersburg

Benfica

Lyon

RB Leipzig



Group H

Chelsea

Ajax

Valencia

Lille

At least Napoli will most likely make it out this time. Last year was tense; all you guys needed was one goal in the final match, and you had so many good opportunities at Anfield to get that goal

Group F is the group of death (unlucky for BVB to draw Inter). I hope Barca gets toppled over, but that's too much of a pipe dream

Groups G & H are complete wildcards

and guess where he was born?
I had to look it up, but couldn't make the connection to anything. Birthplace of Cruijff or Michels?

[wc1934]

At least Napoli will most likely make it out this time. Last year was tense; all you guys needed was one goal in the final match, and you had so many good opportunities at Anfield to get that goal

Group F is the group of death (unlucky for BVB to draw Inter). I hope Barca gets toppled over, but that's too much of a pipe dream

Groups G & H are complete wildcards


I had to look it up, but couldn't make the connection to anything. Birthplace of Cruijff or Michels?

Ahh, Dest- my mistake - read your post quickly - thought you were referring to Pierie (born in Boston).

Ajax might have a good run. Hope so.

[echappist]

Condolence, WC1934. So sorry. That OG is gotta hurt...

But look on the bright side, you guys took it to Juve after going 2-0 down, away from home. That's gotta mean something

In other news, BvB took a helluva beating from recently promoted Union Berlin. Damn, they played s***e

Lucien Favre is getting outcoached by managers from the second division...

[wc1934]

Condolence, WC1934. So sorry. That OG is gotta hurt...

But look on the bright side, you guys took it to Juve after going 2-0 down, away from home. That's gotta mean something

In other news, BvB took a helluva beating from recently promoted Union Berlin. Damn, they played s***e

Lucien Favre is getting outcoached by managers from the second division...

What misery!!!!!! Szczesny's save on Allan's shot early on may have been the game changer. The first half was terrible. Ancelotti made some nice changes at half. Needless to say, the 3 last minute pick ups (Manolas, Lozano and Di Lorenzo) saved the day.

Allowing Higuain to score was bad enough. But then to come from 3 down only to loose it in extra time was a killer. I hope those 2 points dont come back to haunt us in May. Poor Koulibaly. I was saying that he isnt great with the ball at his feet, but is exceptionally good - maybe just a shade below van Dijk.

[echappist]

What misery!!!!!! Szczesny's save on Allan's shot early on may have been the game changer. The first half was terrible. Ancelotti made some nice changes at half. Needless to say, the 3 last minute pick ups (Manolas, Lozano and Di Lorenzo) saved the day.

Allowing Higuain to score was bad enough. But then to come from 3 down only to loose it in extra time was a killer. I hope those 2 points dont come back to haunt us in May. Poor Koulibaly. I was saying that he isnt great with the ball at his feet, but is exceptionally good - maybe just a shade below van Dijk.

oh man. at first i thought he was let down by his own teammate, as the cross went in seemingly uncontested. Then i realized that it was from a set piece. I don't know if van Dijk would have fared better had he attempted to kick the ball.

Perhaps he should have headed it up, but I doubt being better ball-playing CB would have helped. The commentators, however, noted that the person whom he was defending was offsides. Alas, the rules of the game screwed him (and defenders in general). They all have to make a play on the ball, b/c they are told to play to the whistle (not to mention that they'd look bad if they didn't try). Had an attacking player directed it in, the goal would have been chalked off. But as long as an attacking player hoovers around but don't make an active play at the ball, a defender has to pretend that the attacking player were on-side and make an active play, and any mistakes that would arise therefrom would not be offset by the fact that the whole reason the defender made an attempt was due to the presence of an offside attacking player.

I hope you guys sock it to Juve. They look quite porous, tbh.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, Xhaka, he and Luiz sure make for a helluva comedic pairing...

[Climb01742]

At least, for once, Arsenal didn’t turtle after going down 0-2. One point is a small victory. But MC and LIV aren’t too worried.:rolleyes:

[echappist]

At least, for once, Arsenal didn’t turtle after going down 0-2. One point is a small victory. But MC and LIV aren’t too worried.:rolleyes:
It was helluva match. Well played.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, a read on football in the Basque country, the land that gave the world the likes of Alonso, Areta, and Emery.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/sep/02/sport-as-song-and-song-as-sport-a-night-at-the-basque-derby-athletic-bilbao-real-sociedad-la-liga-sid-lowe

[goonster]

Here's a great piece (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/sep/02/sport-as-song-and-song-as-sport-a-night-at-the-basque-derby-athletic-bilbao-real-sociedad-la-liga-sid-lowe) on the Basque derby and . . . poetry, for anybody who'd like to do a bit of a deep dive into this stuff.

Of course, the story of Athletic is fairly well known, but I was not aware of the poetry angle. Kind of gives new meaning to the concept of the stadium as a sporting cathedral. The second embedded video, with the Jon Maia performance, really got to me, and I found myself going back to it again and again.

The piece refers to a spectacular goal from last season, when Athletic really had their backs against the wall, and that goal, with a great call, can been seen here: "Madre mia, Williams!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKc2dN8hxE)

[echappist]

Here's a great piece (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/sep/02/sport-as-song-and-song-as-sport-a-night-at-the-basque-derby-athletic-bilbao-real-sociedad-la-liga-sid-lowe) on the Basque derby and . . . poetry, for anybody who'd like to do a bit of a deep dive into this stuff.

Of course, the story of Athletic is fairly well known, but I was not aware of the poetry angle. Kind of gives new meaning to the concept of the stadium as a sporting cathedral. The second embedded video, with the Jon Maia performance, really got to me, and I found myself going back to it again and again.

The piece refers to a spectacular goal from last season, when Athletic really had their backs against the wall, and that goal, with a great call, can been seen here: "Madre mia, Williams!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKc2dN8hxE)

beat you to the punch on the Basque football article, though pleasantly surprised to see a Scouser reading a Mancunian newspaper :p

jest aside, that Williams goal, just stunning. Shade of Weah Sr. running the length of the pitch after a set piece in his own defensive half in cleared (though Weah Sr. had to weave through quite a few more defenders)

Also, Sid Lowe write amazing analyses. Too bad I usually can't by arsed with following La Liga.

[echappist]

Man, that scoreline flattered the Germans. Iffy hand ball call; should have never been a penalty.

But the Dutch had so much exuberance, and damn did they make the Germans pay. Fantastic pressing and team work leading to the third goal, and just as good of a counter-attack goal on the fourth.

World football just ain't the same without their presence, and I look forward to seeing them in the Euros next year.

[echappist]

and good lord, awful game by the MNT

Berlhalter is an effing hack. What is he doing 1) playing McKennie out of position, 2) playing Edward Brick-for-limbs Zardes in lieu of Sargent, and 3) insisting on playing out of the back (and into trouble)

I'm glad I didn't watch it. Burning trash heap of a game. Granted, neither Weah (as a winger) nor Adams (as another DM) was available, so, he had to work with what he had. But you'd think he could have called in another winger?

Only saving grace is that it's only a friendly...

[wc1934]

and good lord, awful game by the MNT

Berlhalter is an effing hack. What is he doing 1) playing McKennie out of position, 2) playing Edward Brick-for-limbs Zardes in lieu of Sargent, and 3) insisting on playing out of the back (and into trouble)

I'm glad I didn't watch it. Burning trash heap of a game. Granted, neither Weah (as a winger) nor Adams (as another DM) was available, so, he had to work with what he had. But you'd think he could have called in another winger?

Only saving grace is that it's only a friendly...

Agree - I only watched snippets here and there (in between US Open). I am waiting for Berlhalter to field his best eleven on a consistent basis. I get it that he is experimenting and testing players, but at some point he needs to establish a starting lineup - with defined roles -and have them play full time as a unit.

[echappist]

yikes! Stadia San Paulo is not ready for use yet...


https://twitter.com/sscnapoli/status/1172057457792901120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1172057457792901120&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ffootba ll%2F2019%2Fsep%2F12%2Fthe-fiver-napoli-carlo-ancelotti

[wc1934]

yikes! Stadia San Paulo is not ready for use yet...


https://twitter.com/sscnapoli/status/1172057457792901120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1172057457792901120&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ffootba ll%2F2019%2Fsep%2F12%2Fthe-fiver-napoli-carlo-ancelotti

That's what the Mister is tweeting - said he agreed to play the first two games away to allow them time to finish. City council stated it would be done on Friday - posted pictures showing a more completed room (but that may have been the visiting dressing rooms as they are supposedly finished - so regarding that aspect, Liverpool can relax - haha).

[echappist]

That's what the Mister is tweeting - said he agreed to play the first two games away to allow them time to finish. City council stated it would be done on Friday - posted pictures showing a more completed room (but that may have been the visiting dressing rooms as they are supposedly finished - so regarding that aspect, Liverpool can relax - haha).

Relax? Surely you jest. Those two games last year were such tense affairs. And to think, LFC was a late volley away from getting booted after the group stage

[wc1934]

Relax? Surely you jest. Those two games last year were such tense affairs. And to think, LFC was a late volley away from getting booted after the group stage

Liverpool can relax as the visitors changing room will be ready (they won't have to dress on the bus:)). But as for the game - they definitely cannot relax. Should be a good match, but Napoli will be ready.
Forte Partenopei!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/09/12/liverpool-wont-affected-work-napoli-stadium-carloancelotti/

[wc1934]

Leicester over Man U tomorrow?

[echappist]

It certainly could happen. Man U is s***, haven't played like a big team after they beat Chelsea.

Leicester is punching above its weight. Should be a good match

[echappist]

Damn NBC Universal

They could show either the Man U- Leicester game or the Chelsea - Wolves game. Instead, they are showing a uncompetitive derby from London. Snooze fest...

[wc1934]

Damn NBC Universal

They could show either the Man U- Leicester game or the Chelsea - Wolves game. Instead, they are showing a uncompetitive derby from London. Snooze fest...
I watched Juve/Fiorentina on ESPN+. now onto Napoli - they are showing the players in the nicely finished dressing rooms.

[echappist]

Stones and Otamendi remind you that it could be even more farcical

trailing 3-1 at Carrow Road to recently promoted Norwich. Yikes!

[martl]

I watched Juve/Fiorentina on ESPN+. now onto Napoli - they are showing the players in the nicely finished dressing rooms.

Ah, duel of the aging superstars :D. Standing ovations for FR7 after a lively performance. Fiorentina were the more active team, Juve a bit disappointing.

btw, the first half on Bayern Munich away in Leipzig was worth to watch. Best football i've seen in a while.

[echappist]

I watched Juve/Fiorentina on ESPN+. now onto Napoli - they are showing the players in the nicely finished dressing rooms.

and someone knocked Juve off its perch, for once!

also, Conte and Sarri are so catty. Like a bunch of emo high schoolers...

Ah, duel of the aging superstars :D. Standing ovations for FR7 after a lively performance. Fiorentina were the more active team, Juve a bit disappointing.

btw, the first half on Bayern Munich away in Leipzig was worth to watch. Best football i've seen in a while.

series of spectacular saves, and Müller showing why he deserves a starting spot.

[martl]

and someone knocked Juve off its perch, for once!

also, Conte and Sarri are so catty. Like a bunch of emo high schoolers...

https://derivates.kicker.de/image/upload/x_1,y_439,w_4499,h_2530,c_crop/w_1000,h_563,q_auto/mz06yegnssqqkh5g6s9t.jpg

series of spectacular saves, and Müller showing why he deserves a starting spot.
Gulasci must be the most underrated GK in the EU top leagues. Whenever i see him, he is rock solid with traces of genius.
He got the same a++ marks as Neuer did, who is back on track and proving that news of him having lost class were premature.

[Climb01742]

Could someone please cut my love for Arsenal out of my heart? Norwich showed more fight against MC than the Gunners in the second half yesterday. Both literally and figuratively, there's no 'D' in Arsenal. Why, always, is their defense such a comedy of errors?

[Mzilliox]

Could someone please cut my love for Arsenal out of my heart? Norwich showed more fight against MC than the Gunners in the second half yesterday. Both literally and figuratively, there's no 'D' in Arsenal. Why, always, is their defense such a comedy of errors?

their defense is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. also, the first half was just as bad as the second only we manged to score twice. we still had no possesion and scored 2 goals on 3 shots while Watford had something like 9 shots. now their midfield is complete and utter **** and their coach is a fraud. when you cant possess the ball vs watford, the defense was not your problem, its your teams inability to control a match in the middle of the pitch.. we leave our CBs hung to dry every match by pretending granita xhaka is a CM worthy of the EPL. and Unai Emery is a total fraud, put that right in the bank today, he will not be here at the end of the season. this is the worst i have ever seen my beloved gunners play. they have no semblance of style or tactics.

[echappist]

Liverpool can relax as the visitors changing room will be ready (they won't have to dress on the bus:)). But as for the game - they definitely cannot relax. Should be a good match, but Napoli will be ready.
Forte Partenopei!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/09/12/liverpool-wont-affected-work-napoli-stadium-carloancelotti/

You must be over the moon! Napoli played well. Hopefully it wasn't too stressful watching that.

[wc1934]

You must be over the moon! Napoli played well. Hopefully it wasn't too stressful watching that.

Yup :):):)
I liked the way they pressed, but there were also some tense moments. Manolas defending gave me palpitations (deja vu Koulibaly/Juve 2 weeks ago). Koulibaly is a beast - not great with the ball at his feet, but so solid (out played his counterpart, VVD, who is a tremendous centre back - they might be 1-2). Allan had a good game and I was surprised when they took him out. The substitutions altered the style of play.
I was surprised that they called that PK - Napoli has not had great success with that ref - German guy- but Liverpool has.
Liverpool keeper kept them in the game - that save on Mertens shot, where he was falling to his left and saves it with his right was world class (and it looks like he got his hand on the PK shot too).

[echappist]

Yup :):):)
I liked the way they pressed, but there were also some tense moments. Manolas defending gave me palpitations (deja vu Koulibaly/Juve 2 weeks ago). Koulibaly is a beast - not great with the ball at his feet, but so solid (out played his counterpart, VVD, who is a tremendous centre back - they might be 1-2). Allan had a good game and I was surprised when they took him out. The substitutions altered the style of play.
I was surprised that they called that PK - Napoli has not had great success with that ref - German guy- but Liverpool has.
Liverpool keeper kept them in the game - that save on Mertens shot, where he was falling to his left and saves it with his right was world class (and it looks like he got his hand on the PK shot too).

I was not a fan of the PK call; no contact. That said, Mertens struck the PK well.

LFC's playing style led to its own downfall. Seems to lack concentration and a bit too cute at times. I didn't catch the highlights, but it appears there's trouble brewing amongst the wingers again?

In other news, BvB was unlucky not to get a goal out of that match against Barça. Sigh...

Also, the games are available on free on Bleacher Report live. I don't know why that's happening though. Went to pay for the monthly coverage, and there was no place for me to click on anything. Strange...

ETA: rules for penalties is just straight up terrible. LFC basically won the final against Spurs on a dubious call. Now they fall victim to a dubious call. I don't think either merited a penalty, but so it goes

[wc1934]

I was not a fan of the PK call; no contact. That said, Mertens struck the PK well.

LFC's playing style led to its own downfall. Seems to lack concentration and a bit too cute at times. I didn't catch the highlights, but it appears there's trouble brewing amongst the wingers again?

In other news, BvB was unlucky not to get a goal out of that match against Barça. Sigh...

Also, the games are available on free on Bleacher Report live. I don't know why that's happening though. Went to pay for the monthly coverage, and there was no place for me to click on anything. Strange...

That entire group F tied.
Glad to see Ajax won as well.
Thanks - didnt know BR had games on live. I watched the Napoli game on TNT. Liverpool was the draw. Luckily they were playing Napoli so I was able to see them.

[martl]

I was surprised that they called that PK - Napoli has not had great success with that ref - German guy- but Liverpool has.

If you are implying Brych would be biased toward 'Pool because of Klopp, rest assured. a) Brych is from Munich, not from Dortmund (or Mainz). b) Kloppo is not very popular with many Refs, both because of his agitation during the match and because of his habit to blame everyone else if things don't go his way, with usually the refs being first choice. Actually, Klopps sideline antics have been a point of concern at youth coach and referee meetings
c) to prove point b), he *did* complain about Brych after yesterdays match (of course he would) d) both, Brych and Klopp, clashed in the past several times.

Now, i know there is cheating, bias and even bribery in all football, Germany being no exception, but such allegations coming from a match in which *Napoli* was involved, of all teams, is funny. The Camorra bought/bribed/bullied them to titles in the past.


I was not a fan of the PK call; no contact. That said, Mertens struck the PK well.

The contact was up there on the hip. Plus challenging in such a clumsy way inside the own box warrants a pen for stupidity alone.

[goonster]

Fair play to Napoli. There was definitely contact on the penalty, and there are problems with VAR, but I don't think this was one of them.

I do hope Napoli advances, just not at the expense of Liverpool, please.

Should be interesting to see how good RB Salzburg really are, when they go up against the big guns. The Haland kid is a good story.

[echappist]

Fair play to Napoli. There was definitely contact on the penalty, and there are problems with VAR, but I don't think this was one of them.

I do hope Napoli advances, just not at the expense of Liverpool, please.

Should be interesting to see how good RB Salzburg really are, when they go up against the big guns. The Haland kid is a good story.

What would be great is Salzburg knocking out ManU in Europa League, to the consternation of a certain Roy Keane ;)

[goonster]

What would be great is Salzburg knocking out ManU in Europa League, to the consternation of a certain Roy Keane ;)

Let's not get ahead of ourselves . . .

Anyway, nothing can surpass the glory of Man U crashing out of the Champions League at the hands of F.C. Basel (featuring a certain Xherdan Shaqiri) in Ferguson's penultimate season.

[wc1934]

If you are implying Brych would be biased toward 'Pool because of Klopp, rest assured. a) Brych is from Munich, not from Dortmund (or Mainz). b) Kloppo is not very popular with many Refs, both because of his agitation during the match and because of his habit to blame everyone else if things don't go his way, with usually the refs being first choice. Actually, Klopps sideline antics have been a point of concern at youth coach and referee meetings
c) to prove point b), he *did* complain about Brych after yesterdays match (of course he would) d) both, Brych and Klopp, clashed in the past several times.

Now, i know there is cheating, bias and even bribery in all football, Germany being no exception, but such allegations coming from a match in which *Napoli* was involved, of all teams, is funny. The Camorra bought/bribed/bullied them to titles in the past.

The contact was up there on the hip. Plus challenging in such a clumsy way inside the own box warrants a pen for stupidity alone.

Just talking stats -
The entire officiating crew was German, including the VAR booth.
Liverpool with Brych is three wins, a draw and a defeat.
Napoli with Brych, won once (4-2 against Benfica) and lost twice.

[martl]

Just talking stats -
The entire officiating crew was German, including the VAR booth.
Liverpool with Brych is three wins, a draw and a defeat.
Napoli with Brych, won once (4-2 against Benfica) and lost twice.

Ref-teams are one-nation always (hence "team"). The VAR assistant was of the same nation as the on-pitch team in five of the eight matches last night.
I don't know details but i assume it has to do with domestic availability either of trained staff or technical ablities. This being UEFA they possibly have some harebrained criteria of their own for this.

Brych officialled 5 Klopp matches so far. After three of them, Klopp expressed the opinion of having been the victim of bad refereeing, including one which he won 5-2. Klopp shook everone's hand last night with the exception of Brychs. There is no known instance of a justified penalty or red card awarded againbst any Klopp team in history. He *is* a petty bastard and a sore loser for sure.

[echappist]

Just talking stats -
The entire officiating crew was German, including the VAR booth.
Liverpool with Brych is three wins, a draw and a defeat.
Napoli with Brych, won once (4-2 against Benfica) and lost twice.
that's not really enough of a data set to justify anything, not to mention that there is no indication that LFC's wins and Napoli's loses are attributed to dubious calls


Ref-teams are one-nation always (hence "team"). The VAR assistant was of the same nation as the on-pitch team in five of the eight matches last night.
I don't know details but i assume it has to do with domestic availability either of trained staff or technical ablities. This being UEFA they possibly have some harebrained criteria of their own for this.

Brych officialled 5 Klopp matches so far. After three of them, Klopp expressed the opinion of having been the victim of bad refereeing, including one which he won 5-2. Klopp shook everone's hand last night with the exception of Brychs. There is no known instance of a justified penalty or red card awarded againbst any Klopp team in history. He *is* a petty bastard and a sore loser for sure.

he might not be a petty bastard (that'd be Mourinho level), but he sure likes to whinge a lot. though one of my fav manager, that damn whinging really gets irksome some times...

[goonster]

that's not really enough of a data set to justify anything

Ref paranoia is an Italian pastime. I seem to recall fairly elaborate referee stats on the weekly match previews in Gazzetta dello Sport.

[wc1934]

I am saying that I was surprised that the ref made the call given prior experiences.

[wc1934]

that's not really enough of a data set to justify anything, not to mention that there is no indication that LFC's wins and Napoli's loses are attributed to dubious calls




he might not be a petty bastard (that'd be Mourinho level), but he sure likes to whinge a lot. though one of my fav manager, that damn whinging really gets irksome some times...

Those are the available stats. Nothing more. Doesnt have to be a dubious call - There are many more subtleties/nuances that dramatically effect play.

[wc1934]

PSG looking good - Di'Maria "has his dancing feet again".

[echappist]

That, and Real looks like a shell of its former self...

[wc1934]

Ref paranoia is an Italian pastime. I seem to recall fairly elaborate referee stats on the weekly match previews in Gazzetta dello Sport.

So you have never complained about the officiating?
Or are you Italian?

[citycyclist247]

Saw Real vs P$G, the team is paying for Florentino Perez’s antics over the years. I have sympathy for Real’s fans and players though. Hopefully they’ll get some positive change soon.

[echappist]

Saw Real vs P$G, the team is paying for Florentino Perez’s antics over the years. I have sympathy for Real’s fans and players though. Hopefully they’ll get some positive change soon.

Foremost and principal amongst whom included Gen Franco, a veritable fascist who poured state aid into the team's coffers. I believe the state subsidy continues to this day.

In view of that, hard to feel sorry.

Also, way too many bratty and entitled fans who quickly turn on the team's players. They can all go home and sulk

[martl]

he might not be a petty bastard (that'd be Mourinho level), but he sure likes to whinge a lot. though one of my fav manager, that damn whinging really gets irksome some times...
He is one, take it from me. Everyone yells during a game, petty bastards maintain their grudges for months and nurture them. There are pundits /interviewers afraid of getting on the wrong side of Klopp, because once you are, you'll never recover and he won't talk to you again, ever.

[goonster]

Gen Franco

He's still dead (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axByUFSa7N8).

[martl]

Foremost and principal amongst whom included Gen Franco, a veritable fascist who poured state aid into the team's coffers. I believe the state subsidy continues to this day.

In view of that, hard to feel sorry.

Also, way too many bratty and entitled fans who quickly turn on the team's players. They can all go home and sulk

if you find a major club that hasn't done anything cringeworthy or despicable, and has never been involved with a scumbag of any sorts, drop me a note, i'll buy a jersey.

[echappist]

if you find a major club that hasn't done anything cringeworthy or despicable, and has never been involved with a scumbag of any sorts, drop me a note, i'll buy a jersey.
I'm protesting clubs receiving material benefits from egregious human rights violations, not run-of-the-mill scumbaggery (e.g. tax-dodgers at the head of your club), and not clubs having an odd despicable fan.

And by connection to egregious human rights violations, I mean the likes of PSG-Qatari (slave labor), Real-Franco (Spanish Civil War and what followed), and Dinamo Berlin-Stasi (you probably know what they did better than I)

[martl]

I'm protesting clubs receiving material benefits from egregious human rights violations, not run-of-the-mill scumbaggery (e.g. tax-dodgers at the head of your club), and not clubs having an odd despicable fan.

And by connection to egregious human rights violations, I mean the likes of PSG-Qatari (slave labor), Real-Franco (Spanish Civil War and what followed), and Dinamo Berlin-Stasi (you probably know what they did better than I)
The tax evader did that as a private man, the club's been remarkably clean of that kind of behavior (though it wouldn'T surprise me if it did), especially compared to some other clubs they're competing with. Also, as opposed to others guilty of similar crimes, he served his sentence so his debt to society is paid according to civilised justice systems.
I didn't run an ethics check when i picked "my" team. I was 10 and they played amazing football at the time. I'm happy that, *when* i did check, they came out comparativly clean, even during the evil empires 12 year stint. And i'm proud that the central core of the supporter base lives up to that legacy.

Which club do you support btw? Lets see if it can survive the scrutiny.

[goonster]

So you have never complained about the officiating?
Or are you Italian?

I'm not Italian, and I don't worry about bias in the officiating.

The officials make bad calls, and I think that players take advantage of a broad, unwritten consensus around leniency on fouls early in the game, and tactical fouling (to stop counterattacks), but I've never thought that a particular ref had it in for my team.

If anything, the greater risk is around the officials' sensitivity to perceived bias.

[wc1934]

that's not really enough of a data set to justify anything, not to mention that there is no indication that LFC's wins and Napoli's loses are attributed to dubious calls




he might not be a petty bastard (that'd be Mourinho level), but he sure likes to whinge a lot. though one of my fav manager, that damn whinging really gets irksome some times...

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-fc?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Global%2009262019&utm_term=Global/Soccer%20Newsletter

[echappist]

thanks for sharing that :)

-----------------------------------

and yikes, Tottenham getting steamrolled at home by Bayern. Some really sloppy play after a promising start. This is pretty dire...

[echappist]

damn, and just like that, it's as if Bayern were thrashing another North London team...

Well, Gnabry was a former Gunner...

edit: holy s***, in the span of five minutes, they scored twice more. This Spurs team in truly shambolic...

What happened to the team that took the game to Real?

[wc1934]

damn, and just like that, it's as if Bayern were thrashing another North London team...

Well, Gnabry was a former Gunner...

edit: holy s***, in the span of five minutes, they scored twice more. This Spurs team in truly shambolic...

What happened to the team that took the game to Real?

Who saw this coming - wow. Those 3 in 5 minutes must be a CL record.

Tomorrow Barce-Inter. Should be a good one.

[wc1934]

Barely got comfortable and Inter scored. But I dont think one will be enough.

[echappist]

I donno, Barça looks rather sub par...

[echappist]

Damn, Red Bull Salzburg manages to do what Barça couldn't: score a goal at Anfield.

And to think, Matip probably could have played a better match. So sloppy by Liverpool.

@wc1934, this group is a lot tougher than I expected...

[wc1934]

Damn, Red Bull Salzburg manages to do what Barça couldn't: score a goal at Anfield.

And to think, Matip probably could have played a better match. So sloppy by Liverpool.

@wc1934, this group is a lot tougher than I expected...

Red Bull scored 6 against Gent. Today 3 more. Problem is D has given up 6.
They play Napoli on the 23rd.

[goonster]

Red Bull Salzburg manages to do what Barça couldn't: score a goal at Anfield.

Whisper it, but Salzburg might actually be good. That game at home vs. Napoli will be interesting.

[echappist]

Whisper it, but Salzburg might actually be good. That game at home vs. Napoli will be interesting.

you concerned that Matip is out? Gomez looked really shaky (especially on the Haaland goal). Vardy might steal his lunch money...

[goonster]

you concerned that Matip is out?

Not really. Gomez needs game time, but his contributions to the defensive record before his injury, last season, speak for themselves.

[martl]

damn, and just like that, it's as if Bayern were thrashing another North London team...

Well, Gnabry was a former Gunner...

edit: holy s***, in the span of five minutes, they scored twice more. This Spurs team in truly shambolic...

Game made Bayern look better than they are, could have been 3-1 Spurs at half time easily.. on the other hand, teams that function don't fall apart the way Spurs did.

[echappist]

Well that was a game and a half at the Kop.

LFC looked disjointed. Probably needed a break after having played that thriller on Wednesday. Hopefully Salah isn't hurt too badly. That was a really bad foul

Winning ugly, but winning.

[goonster]

I had legit forgotten about Dejan Lovren . . .

[echappist]

And oh my, how the might falls. And to think, this all sorta got started, b/c Laporte hurt himself while meting out City's trademark tactical foul. Instead, he injures himself, and Fernandino, the master of those tactical fouls, is forced to play defense. As the last defender, he very well can't foul as freely, as he may be shown a red instead, so we get to watch teams counter-attack.

Karma

I had legit forgotten about Dejan Lovren . . .

I'm sure you'll remember better when you see this :)

Lovren took one to the noggin during some sort of free kick practice, and this is Klopp's reaction

https://media.giphy.com/media/TJxIpLuHso8bPJAHP5/giphy.gif

[wc1934]

Did you read where Petr Cech signed on as the goalkeeper for (Guildford Phoenix) 4th tier British ice hockey team?

[Gsinill]

The ceaseless reinvention of Bastian Schweinsteiger (https://www.joe.co.uk/football/ceaseless-reinvention-bastian-schweinsteiger-240333?fbclid=IwAR3OfJSAj6qfAZ-xfJGx6pclaBZUpGK7dyfwJnNcrSxfWi_T_SfLrpCBD6U)

Good summary why he is one of the most respected and regarded players of all time in Germany.

[echappist]

I was wondering if either resident Bayern fans was going to mention
him

Didnt realize how good he was at free kicks.

Did you watch him play for Chicago?

[Gsinill]

I was wondering if either resident Bayern fans was going to mention
him

Didnt realize how good he was at free kicks.

Did you watch him play for Chicago?

Nope, never watched a Fire or any other MLS game

[echappist]

You aren't missing out. It's massively scheiße. Could be argued though that Schweinsteiger didn't take too much of a step down from ManU though...

I remember watching the 2016 MLS final btwn Toronto and Seattle. Just massively unwatchable. Players can't string together passes and no ball control. In comparison, brick-for-limbs Lukaku would appear almost silky smooth on the ball

[echappist]

Damn, Northern Ireland was so valiant and played its heart out. Just not quite enough...

That's a bit cruel...

[Gsinill]

You aren't missing out. It's massively scheiße. Could be argued though that Schweinsteiger didn't take too much of a step down from ManU though...

I remember watching the 2016 MLS final btwn Toronto and Seattle. Just massively unwatchable. Players can't string together passes and no ball control. In comparison, brick-for-limbs Lukaku would appear almost silky smooth on the ball

The only thing MLS I ever watched (on TV) was the MLS Allstars vs. FCB back in 2014 in Portland.
To your point: unwatchable.
Funny thing, Bayern actually lost 1:2 LOL

[martl]

I was wondering if either resident Bayern fans was going to mention
him

Didnt realize how good he was at free kicks.

Did you watch him play for Chicago?

He was pretty good at everything; started as technical winger, got re-invented by LvG as central midfielder; partnership Martinez/Basti was the pivot that made the 2013 triple crown possible. Not to mention that he could have made it as a professional skier, too; as a junior, he would battle his buddy, the later olympic gold medalist Felix Neureuther, on eye level.

Absolute legend and the front man of the best team ever to wear the Bayern jersey. No allures either, in his Munich time, he was often seen kicking a ball around with friends in the english garden, attending some lower league football match (absolute football nut), or sitting at the steps of the Gärtnerplatz fountain at night alongside a few other night owls, just enjoying a beer.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/bb/f2/f6/bbf2f67e42caa39cf155439d8a745724.jpg

...in the meantime, our dumbo coach is pulling a Mourinho on Müller and our geriatric board does nothing to stop it. #sad...

..at least old man Franck won "player of the month" in the serie A. :)

[Gsinill]

He was pretty good at everything; started as technical winger, got re-invented by LvG as central midfielder; partnership Martinez/Basti was the pivot that made the 2013 triple crown possible. Not to mention that he could have made it as a professional skier, too; as a junior, he would battle his buddy, the later olympic gold medalist Felix Neureuther, on eye level.

Absolute legend and the front man of the best team ever to wear the Bayern jersey. No allures either, in his Munich time, he was often seen kicking a ball around with friends in the english garden, attending some lower league football match (absolute football nut), or sitting at the steps of the Gärtnerplatz fountain at night alongside a few other night owls, just enjoying a beer.

...in the meantime, our dumbo coach is pulling a Mourinho on Müller and our geriatric board does nothing to stop it. #sad...

..at least old man Franck won "player of the month" in the serie A. :)

While I agree with pretty much everything you say, I would argue that the '73 - '76 squad is still unmatched to this day.

[martl]

While I agree with pretty much everything you say, I would argue that the '73 - '76 squad is still unmatched to this day.

They have more legend appeal, but they were a bunch of arrogant pricks, not bothering to play football sometimes at all - saw them in a fair bit of completely lacklustre 0-0s against under-par opposition... Of course, they could hammer any opposition if they wanted to.
The 2009-2015 squad was so much better in every aspect, more entertaining to watch, more technical, more consistent :)

[Gsinill]

They have more legend appeal, but they were a bunch of arrogant pricks, not bothering to play football sometimes at all - saw them in a fair bit of completely lacklustre 0-0s against under-par opposition... Of course, they could hammer any opposition if they wanted to.
The 2009-2015 squad was so much better in every aspect, more entertaining to watch, more technical, more consistent :)

Hmm, you just provided quite a bit of ammunition to the many FCB haters here since the majority of those "arrogant pricks" you are referring to have shaped the image of the club from the 90s up to today in high ranking positions.
Just saying... ;)
Also, some of that perceived arrogance was countered by down to earth nice guys like Kalle Schwarzenbeck, Bulle Roth or iconic Sepp Maier.

Comparing the technical level of the game in the 70s and now is like apples and oranges. Day and night.
I would argue that if you teleported Cruyff, Pele or Beckenbauer on the pitch of any 2nd division match in any of the leading leagues today, they wouldn't know what hit them.

[echappist]

Hmm, you just provided quite a bit of ammunition to the many FCB haters here since the majority of those "arrogant pricks" you are referring to have shaped the image of the club from the 90s up to today in high ranking positions.
Just saying... ;)
Also, some of that perceived arrogance was countered by down to earth nice guys like Kalle Schwarzenbeck, Bulle Roth or iconic Sepp Maier.

Comparing the technical level of the game in the 70s and now is like apples and oranges. Day and night.
I would argue that if you teleported Cruyff, Pele or Beckenbauer on the pitch of any 2nd division match in any of the leading leagues today, they wouldn't know what hit them.

Surely not Cruijff, the guy who invented the eponymous turn?

also, am I one of the said FCB haters? Didn't know there's a posse of them here

[martl]

Hmm, you just provided quite a bit of ammunition to the many FCB haters here since the majority of those "arrogant pricks" you are referring to have shaped the image of the club from the 90s up to today in high ranking positions.
Just saying... ;)
Also, some of that perceived arrogance was countered by down to earth nice guys like Kalle Schwarzenbeck, Bulle Roth or iconic Sepp Maier.

true, also Gerd Müller. Had the good luck to meet him briefly before he became ill, and a humbler, nicer human being has rarely crossed my path. He never stopped being slightly embarrassed about the fuzz that mas made over him.

Comparing the technical level of the game in the 70s and now is like apples and oranges. Day and night.
I would argue that if you teleported Cruyff, Pele or Beckenbauer on the pitch of any 2nd division match in any of the leading leagues today, they wouldn't know what hit them.

I happen to disagree. Their talent, and that of other idols of that time, be it Puskas, di Stefano or Sindelar, was head and shoulders above anyone elses at their time, and that wouldn't have changed. Were they active today, they would have todays fitness level, athleticism, and tactical acumen too. Todays heroes are not more talented than them, just the game has progressed.

[Gsinill]

I happen to disagree. Their talent, and that of other idols of that time, be it Puskas, di Stefano or Sindelar, was head and shoulders above anyone elses at their time, and that wouldn't have changed. Were they active today, they would have todays fitness level, athleticism, and tactical acumen too. Todays heroes are not more talented than them, just the game has progressed.

We are actually in total agreement on this one.
I said if you teleported those guys, i.e. their fitness level and what you call "tactical acumen" from back in their days.
The change of the game over the years is exactly what makes it more enjoyable to watch.

[wc1934]

Did you read where Petr Cech signed on as the goalkeeper for (Guildford Phoenix) 4th tier British ice hockey team?

https://www.beinsports.com/us/hockey/video/cech-saves-in-shootout-in-pro-ice-hockey-debu/1318920

[echappist]

The video on BeIn wasn't very good. Was it a good save?

Otoh, the man who always wore a mask can now wear a full face mask


------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, some rules in football are just woefully stupid.

First is giving the Bulgarian fans three opportunities to get their act together. They've already received a slap on the wrist with the half-capacity stadium ban, except the people they let in kept up the act.

Then there's the penalty call in the UKR - POR game. Ball hit the defender in the thigh, then deflected upwards and struck the defender in the arm, all the while the defender was mostly prone. No way his arm could have avoided it, but, penalty called. To make it worse, the poor dude gets a card for his trouble and is sent off. Asinine

[wc1934]

Players Tribune sometimes have decent articles - here is one on Buffon.


https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/gigi-buffon-letter-to-my-younger-self?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%2010142019&utm_term=Daily%20Newsletter

[echappist]

damn, the MNT gets a deux-a-zéro, at the hands of Canada, no less

pathetic...

Berlhalter out

[BobC]

Fire. Berhalter. Today.

That was embarrassing. Score should have been much, much worse if not for Aaron Long.

So tactically naïve, once again GB failed to adjust. He is so inflexible. He got outcoached AGAIN.

World Cup qualification is not a sure thing at this point. I'd put it at 50/50. They are a wreck.

[echappist]

Fire. Berhalter. Today.

That was embarrassing. Score should have been much, much worse if not for Aaron Long.

So tactically naïve, once again GB failed to adjust. He is so inflexible. He got outcoached AGAIN.

World Cup qualification is not a sure thing at this point. I'd put it at 50/50. They are a wreck.

Only consolation is that Costa Rica appears mightily sh**e as well, so maybe we have a chance?

No spine; no solidity. And don't expect much to change

Nepotism at its finest

And to think, this team could have been coached by Jesse Marsch...

[wc1934]

damn, the MNT gets a deux-a-zéro, at the hands of Canada, no less

pathetic...

Berlhalter out

MNT was ranked 21st in the world, while Canada was ranked 75th.

[echappist]

MNT was ranked 21st in the world, while Canada was ranked 75th.

FIFA rankings are massive s***e

Elo ranking has the U.S. at 43, with Canada at 56. Sounds about right

[echappist]

Also, @wc1934, did you know that SSC Napoli plays a song by the Village People before every home match.

Just by chance, i found the name of the tune that I often hear at football matches (including by Oranje fans at 2019 World Cup). Turns out quite a few teams have their own version of the song, which in its original form was supposed to be a jab at the USSR

[martl]

Also, @wc1934, did you know that SSC Napoli plays a song by the Village People before every home match.

Just by chance, i found the name of the tune that I often hear at football matches (including by Oranje fans at 2019 World Cup). Turns out quite a few teams have their own version of the song, which in its original form was supposed to be a jab at the USSR

which songwould that be?

Also, i thought the best Napoli song is the Maradona song: Oh mamma mamma mamma, oh mamma mamma mamma, sai perché mi batte il cuore, ho visto Maradona, ho visto Maradona, ué mammà, innamorato so'!

[echappist]

Pet shop boys - Go West, which is a cover of Village People’s song of the same name, which itself is inspired by Pachebel’s Canon in D Major

Used by, among others, PSG, Arsenal (with the lyric 1-nil to the Arsenal), SSC Napoli, etc

The song itself is campy, kitschy, and dripping with irony, but fit right in at stadia across Europe

[wc1934]

Also, @wc1934, did you know that SSC Napoli plays a song by the Village People before every home match.

Just by chance, i found the name of the tune that I often hear at football matches (including by Oranje fans at 2019 World Cup). Turns out quite a few teams have their own version of the song, which in its original form was supposed to be a jab at the USSR

Awesome - thanks for sharing - heard that song a million times but didnt know it was a Village People/Pet shop boys song.

This could start an interesting thread of anthems etc.

Tuesday Liechtenstein played at home against Italy. Their anthem had the same melody as God Save the Queen.

[wc1934]

which songwould that be?

Also, i thought the best Napoli song is the Maradona song: Oh mamma mamma mamma, oh mamma mamma mamma, sai perché mi batte il cuore, ho visto Maradona, ho visto Maradona, ué mammà, innamorato so'!


Haha - yup. He was our superstar who made our hearts beat - but look at him now.

[martl]

Pet shop boys - Go West, which is a cover of Village People’s song of the same name, which itself is inspired by Pachebel’s Canon in D Major

Used by, among others, PSG, Arsenal (with the lyric 1-nil to the Arsenal), SSC Napoli, etc

The song itself is campy, kitschy, and dripping with irony, but fit right in at stadia across Europe

well it would be a lot shorter if we named clubs where that isn't played (like seven nation army)... Never thought anyone cared about the lyrics. In my stadium, they use "ole super fcb" and i imagine its the same all around.

There are, imo, very few songs that are exclusive to just one club. Even "you'll never walk alone" was adapted by every club soda created club in the world.

[echappist]

Awesome - thanks for sharing - heard that song a million times but didnt know it was a Village People/Pet shop boys song.

This could start an interesting thread of anthems etc.

Tuesday Liechtenstein played at home against Italy. Their anthem had the same melody as God Save the Queen.

ah, thanks for that. Didn't realize it.

personally, I've always found etymology and musical inspirations to be interesting (I guess i'm sort of a history junky)

For instance, outside Germany, the German national anthem is more commonly heard as a church hymn

And for England, they also play Jerusalem (using verses inspired by those of William Blake's "And did those feet in ancient time") at various sporting events, as God Save the Queen is viewed more as an anthem for Great Britain as a whole

well it would be a lot shorter if we named clubs where that isn't played (like seven nation army)... Never thought anyone cared about the lyrics. In my stadium, they use "ole super fcb" and i imagine its the same all around.

There are, imo, very few songs that are exclusive to just one club. Even "you'll never walk alone" was adapted by every club soda created club in the world.

fair point. I had thought it had "higher brow" inspirations (similar to how the Triumphal March from Aida gets co-opted at football stadia across the globe). I didn't realize it's really traced to the Village People instead (albeit with hints of classical inspiration)

Too bad that YNWA gets co-opted by everyone. It should only be sang at Anfield, preferably on an European night

and by club soda created club, you are thinking of Red Bull Salzburg/Leipzig, right?

[martl]

For instance, outside Germany, the German national anthem is more commonly heard as a church hymn

Heh, fair. It' s by Haydn, actually. Has been used/copied by many. I knida like it (and as an after-war-child i'm a bit allergic to explicit nationalism) for a german hymn, it is pleasantly un-bombastic.

and by club soda created club, you are thinking of Red Bull Salzburg/Leipzig, right?
yep, as they are the posterboys of the test-tube clubs.

I remebered a couple of one-club only songs. Schalke have the "Steigerlied" which is a miners song and refers to the clubs history, but a few other clubs located in mining areas use it as well. Bayerns Kurve recently added the "Europapokalmarsch" to their repertoire, as well as the "Wembleylied", both refer to the triple-winning season 2013.

come to think of it, it is easier to find abusive songs (sung by opponents supporters) that are dedicated to a specific club. We are the only club on earth to be told to drop our leather pants everywhere we go, for example :D

[wc1934]

ah, thanks for that. Didn't realize it.

personally, I've always found etymology and musical inspirations to be interesting (I guess i'm sort of a history junky)

For instance, outside Germany, the German national anthem is more commonly heard as a church hymn

And for England, they also play Jerusalem (using verses inspired by those of William Blake's "And did those feet in ancient time") at various sporting events, as God Save the Queen is viewed more as an anthem for Great Britain as a whole



fair point. I had thought it had "higher brow" inspirations (similar to how the Triumphal March from Aida gets co-opted at football stadia across the globe). I didn't realize it's really traced to the Village People instead (albeit with hints of classical inspiration)

Too bad that YNWA gets co-opted by everyone. It should only be sang at Anfield, preferably on an European night

and by club soda created club, you are thinking of Red Bull Salzburg/Leipzig, right?

Thanks for clarification.
Martl - that went right over my head.

[echappist]

Heh, fair. It' s by Haydn, actually. Has been used/copied by many. I knida like it (and as an after-war-child i'm a bit allergic to explicit nationalism) for a german hymn, it is pleasantly un-bombastic.

yep, as they are the posterboys of the test-tube clubs.

I remebered a couple of one-club only songs. Schalke have the "Steigerlied" which is a miners song and refers to the clubs history, but a few other clubs located in mining areas use it as well. Bayerns Kurve recently added the "Europapokalmarsch" to their repertoire, as well as the "Wembleylied", both refer to the triple-winning season 2013.

come to think of it, it is easier to find abusive songs (sung by opponents supporters) that are dedicated to a specific club. We are the only club on earth to be told to drop our leather pants everywhere we go, for example :D

Certainly less bombastic than Zadok the Priest, written by another German (or does he count)? The Brits love it so much, that they play it at coronations of their kings and queens.

Of course, to those of us on this thread, we probably snicker a bit and think of the following when we hear it: "Die Meister, Die Besten, Les grandes équipes" ;)

[Ozz]

...I would argue that if you teleported Cruyff, Pele or Beckenbauer on the pitch of any 2nd division match in any of the leading leagues today, they wouldn't know what hit them.

Flip it....teleport any player today back to then...they would not know what hit them...literally. Red card tackles today, were barely a foul back then...

Cheers.

For technical skill...check out George Best (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWA-h_-5g&list=PLZXVeM-aR2-DIATZDYhg3kjMbeVxupNHy&index=25) Not bad work with a waterlogged leather ball....and probably being half in the bag.:cool:

[echappist]

Unlike some of his colleagues, who just churn things out, there's something deliberate and focused in his writing, while not being affected by the topic de jour.

I remember him writing about Inaki Williams and Athletics Club, and thought his latest piece on Rodri of Man City to be interesting (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/oct/18/rodri-manchester-city-klopp-teams-animals-knife-university-improve#comments)

[echappist]

well, that was a match and a half, with no small part down to VAR. No quibble on the Mane handball goal chalked off, but calling back goals that were the result of fouls unseen is supposed to be one thing that VAR is supposed to address, and it's rather inconceivable how the Rashford goal (brilliant as it was) was allowed to stand.

That said, Klopp does have an issue with how disjointed LFC looks, and they seem to be a side missing fluidity. Having AOC and Keita back should help with that a bit.

[goonster]

Man, Old Trafford is just cursed. I guess getting two managers fired in a row is too much to ask . . .

Elsewhere: sucks about Niklas Süle. Seems like a decent, big lug. Here’s to a speedy and full recovery.

[floppyb]

well, that was a match and a half, with no small part down to VAR. No quibble on the Mane handball goal chalked off, but calling back goals that were the result of fouls unseen is supposed to be one thing that VAR is supposed to address, and it's rather inconceivable how the Rashford goal (brilliant as it was) was allowed to stand.

That said, Klopp does have an issue with how disjointed LFC looks, and they seem to be a side missing fluidity. Having AOC and Keita back should help with that a bit.

Excellent match to watch, even if I'm still somewhat uncomfortable with VAR. Seems like the official word was that, yes there was contact, but not enough to warrant a foul...who knows.

[echappist]

Man, Old Trafford is just cursed. I guess getting two managers fired in a row is too much to ask . . .

Elsewhere: sucks about Niklas Süle. Seems like a decent, big lug. Here’s to a speedy and full recovery.

it's really unfortunate. apparently the same injury as the one he suffered a few years back. Big lad (apparently 210 lb+) who's deceptively fast, all those efforts probably took their toll. At least Bayern can move Pavard to the centerback position, and I think Hernandez can slot in centrally as well.

[goonster]

I think Hernandez can slot in centrally as well.

Not any more . :eek:

[martl]

Not any more . :eek:

Hoeneß wasted no time and wrapped his last standing CB in cottonwool

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHgkf3aWkAA5DxP.jpg

[echappist]

Wait, i don’t get the joke.

Is that Boateng?

[martl]

Wait, i don’t get the joke.

Is that Boateng?

supposed to be, but i cheated. Its Oubameyang i believe

[echappist]

supposed to be, but i cheated. Its Oubameyang i believe

You bastard! I thought it was PEA. Boateng a bit too serious to flash a grin that big (when I think Jerome Boateng, I think of the furrowed lines on his forehead).

https://s.bundesliga.com/assets/img/1190000/1182711_imgw968.jpg

[echappist]

congrats @wc1934; that's a helluva win against a very tough team. The third goal was a show of tenacity.

I think there's a good chance that Napoli tops the group. Really not sure about how LFC will perform in Salzburg...

-----------------------------------

also that AOC second goal. He scored it with his right foot; that's quite some technique. In some ways reminescent of a trivela. Good to see him back, as he basically spent 1.5 years recovering from his injury. Always thought that LFC, despite winning the European Cup, looked a bit disjointed in transition and lacking in attacking nous when opponents willingly concede possession and set up low blocks. As a result, Klopp was overly reliant upon crosses from its (fine) fullbacks. AOC could probably improve both areas, especially re: the latter, as he can drag defenders out of shape to provide space and shoot from range (as seen today).

[wc1934]

congrats @wc1934; that's a helluva win against a very tough team. The third goal was a show of tenacity.

I think there's a good chance that Napoli tops the group. Really not sure about how LFC will perform in Salzburg...

-----------------------------------

also that AOC second goal. He scored it with his right foot; that's quite some technique. In some ways reminescent of a trivela. Good to see him back, as he basically spent 1.5 years recovering from his injury. Always thought that LFC, despite winning the European Cup, looked a bit disjointed in transition and lacking in attacking nous when opponents willingly concede possession and set up low blocks. As a result, Klopp was overly reliant upon crosses from its (fine) fullbacks. AOC could probably improve both areas, especially re: the latter, as he can drag defenders out of shape to provide space and shoot from range (as seen today).

Man, that game really played with my emotions and my blood pressure. Shaky moments and weaknesses, but Salzburg is a really good team. They've won their last 13 home games, and gave Liverpool a run for their money only to loose 4-3 at Anfield.

Mertens brace surpassed Maradona’s goal total and is now only 5 behind Hamsik’s record of 121.
And, with that goal Lorenzo made up with Carlo.
As someone said, "Napoli are owned by a movie maker." This one was a thriller!

[martl]

You bastard! I thought it was PEA. Boateng a bit too serious to flash a grin that big (when I think Jerome Boateng, I think of the furrowed lines on his forehead).

JB wouldn't be seen dead with a patchy 5-day stubble, that's for sure..

https://payload.cargocollective.com/1/1/48281/13819103/Leopold-Fiala_02_Braun_Boateng_OnSet-334_eciRGBv2_1250.jpg

[echappist]

well well well, first hat trick for an American player in the EPL since Clint Dempsey, and it was a perfect hat trick, too. Actually can't remember if he has ever scored a brace in a league game prior to this one.

I still don't think Pulisic is close to being the finished product, but he's certainly been making a case for more game time in the limited minutes given. Really would like to see him get better at releasing the ball before he has no option left, as he gets dispossessed quite a bit in those scenarios.

Hopefully this would also help to steady the USMNT ship...

[martl]

Yout either have class, or you don't. Or you are an Italian :)

Pirlo&Maldini

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHlMYnxX0AAzUq_?format=jpg&name=medium

[echappist]

well, I didn't see this one coming

Sergino Dest chooses to play for the s***e USMNT, as opposed to De Oranje (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/oct/28/sergino-dest-united-states-netherlands-ajax)

It's gotta be a tough choice, between choosing the basketcase side who was there from the start (when the more illustrious side wasn't), and the more bandwagon-jumping side of De Oranje, who basically overlooked him until he really begin to shine this year.

Frankly, I wouldn't have faulted him had he selected De Oranje, given how incompetent and inept USMNT is. Now that MNT has this unexpected windfall, I really hope that the MNT management shapes up and fully realize the potential of this unexpected windfall

That said, I just realized whom Pulisic nutmegged on his assist on Wednesday's match against Ajax. Yep, a certain teenage right back... I just really hope he can play left back. The following line-up wouldn't be half bad (assuming Greg pulls his head out of his arse and plays people where they ought).

-----------Steffan--------------
Yedlin---Miazga---Brooks---Dest
McKennie-----Adams
?????----Pulisic-----Weah
Sargent

[Jaybee]

I don't follow close enough to really know, so is Dest an actual difference maker for the MNT? I gather that he's really good for a US player, but also it seems that he maybe wouldn't have even been in the starting 11 for De Oranje, so is he "good for an American" or "good period"?

[echappist]

I don't follow close enough to really know, so is Dest an actual difference maker for the MNT? I gather that he's really good for a US player, but also it seems that he maybe wouldn't have even been in the starting 11 for De Oranje, so is he "good for an American" or "good period"?

Answer to your first question is: it's a more loaded question than it appears. Certain players operate best under certain systems. Dest is a modern outside back, tasked with offensive output and defense. He does the former quite well and the latter adequately, and he would be at home at any attack-minded side. If he were asked to play defense for most of the game, however, I'm not sure if he'd be as good (in the way ManU's AWB excelled last year at Crystal Palace). But then again, I doubt Trent Alexander-Arnold would shine as brightly, were he asked to play 80% of the game in his own half. With the past few classes of players in the youth rank, you'd expect the skill level to improve, which means the U.S. may be able to play a more attacking brand of football against more teams. Defensive awareness could always be taught; technicality is a bit more difficult to impart. I think he could do well, especially as he can play as a left back. Also not to be forgotten is that he's an Ajax academy grad, the academy steeped in the total football philosophy of Cruijff; so i'd think his positional sense can't be all that bad

As for how good he is, his market value is ~40th amongst players from his birth year, which means he's at least decent. He basically supplanted the right back that played much of Ajax's Champions League and Eredivise campaign and has made that spot his own (someone three years older and with market value of 15 Mil, as opposed to his 5.5 Mil). So in that regard, he's quite good, and didn't seem at all out of place in the Champions League group stage matches, not to mention that Ajax (with him playing most league matches) is currently in first place.

Of course, he's still quite young (few days shy of his 19th birthday), so there's still a lot of unknown, but if things turn out well (as in, no major injury, etc), he'd be quite good.

[echappist]

The U17 MNT seems to be underperforming a bit. Then again, not as bad as the Dutch U17, who got walloped not once, but twice (always found it odd that the land of Cruijff could be so inconsistent).

Surprise to find that Gio Reyna (yes, son of Claudio) is still playing U17. He actually is that young, a few days shy of his 17th birthday. Apparently tearing it up in the Bundesliga U19s, the last stepping stone before first team Bundesliga action. Some of the other kids look quite baby-faced in comparison.

While Pulisic may be the present Captain America, the name Reyna literally refers to royalty, and Claudio Reyna was the former Captain America. Would be glorious to have an attacking front four of Pulisic, Weah (another scion of football royalty), Reyna, and Sargent

[echappist]

How would Frankfurt fare against Tottenham?

Jest aside, Bayern seems to be in real trouble. They'll have to shoe-horn someone into the CB role for the next one or two Bundesliga games, and I really hope BVB can take advantage.

[wc1934]

How would Frankfurt fare against Tottenham?

Jest aside, Bayern seems to be in real trouble. They'll have to shoe-horn someone into the CB role for the next one or two Bundesliga games, and I really hope BVB can take advantage.


Kovac is gone.

[martl]

Kovac is gone.

good riddance, godspeed

[echappist]

Herr Heynckes to the rescue yet again?

At this rate, he’s like the retired Roman general whom the consul/emperor repeatedly calls out of retirement to put out one last uprising...

[goonster]

Kovac: fired, in the end, for the unpardonable sin of being insufficiently deferential to Thomas Mueller.

Also, Bayern need a preemptive excuse, in case things go badly vs. Dortmund.

Incredible to me that this squad falls apart with the loss of Niklas Suele, the Hessian Phil Jones. Apparently, forgetting to have central defenders is a thing that big clubs do now.

[Gsinill]

Kovac: fired, in the end, for the unpardonable sin of being insufficiently deferential to Thomas Mueller.



Goes beyond Müller:
Niko Kovac when asked if Bayern could play a similar type of football like Liverpool with high intensity and more pressing: "You need the right players for that. You can't drive at a speed of 200 km/h on the Autobahn with a car that can't go faster than 100 km/h."

Guess that did not go well with the team ;)

[wc1934]

Kudos to Liverpool!

https://talksport.com/football/624978/liverpool-reject-five-star-hotel-qatar-hotel-club-world-cup/

[goonster]

Niko Kovac when asked if Bayern could play a similar type of football like Liverpool with high intensity and more pressing: "You need the right players for that. You can't drive at a speed of 200 km/h on the Autobahn with a car that can't go faster than 100 km/h."

It's a dumb question and an honest, but undiplomatic, answer. Putting the style first is stupid, because its the result that counts. Arriving at your destination at 100 km/h is better than going 200 km/h, getting lost and running out of gas. Only Liverpool are Liverpool. Would Lewandowski slot into the LFC front three? Probably not.

Kovac always had a better relationship with the press than with his bosses, but he also lost the dressing room completely, just in the last couple of weeks. He should do well elsewhere, but he's not a world class tactician, and he failed to impose his identity on the team.

Hoeness is not doing the club any favors right now, either. Undermining the manager, picking pointless fights with the DFB and generally putting himself in the foreground just when he is on his way out the door. The squad is in transition, currently in injury crisis, they need all the stability they can get.

[echappist]

Kudos to Liverpool!

https://talksport.com/football/624978/liverpool-reject-five-star-hotel-qatar-hotel-club-world-cup/

i'm not sure if that is worthy of kudos though (as much as I find their Teutonic manager and cosmopolitan team generally likeable)...

btw, psyched for tomorrow? Chances of me getting much done tomorrow is about nil. Perhaps I should be thankful that all the interesting matches occur on one day of the week, so that I can be productive on the other day. I have no idea how they decided which groups to play on which day, as the matches on Wednesday are thoroughly insipid...

Kovac: fired, in the end, for the unpardonable sin of being insufficiently deferential to Thomas Mueller.

Also, Bayern need a preemptive excuse, in case things go badly vs. Dortmund.

Incredible to me that this squad falls apart with the loss of Niklas Suele, the Hessian Phil Jones. Apparently, forgetting to have central defenders is a thing that big clubs do now.

Jones ought to consider himself lucky to be compared to Süle

and what do the said big clubs have in common?

[martl]

Herr Heynckes to the rescue yet again?

At this rate, he’s like the retired Roman general whom the consul/emperor repeatedly calls out of retirement to put out one last uprising...

Heynckes jokes have been banned by the german joke police today around 11:00am.

Kovac gof fired because the team didn't show any sign of improvement or at least the development of a game idea for 18 months.

The injury streak amog defenders didn't help naturally*), along with Kovacs unfortunate remarks toward club legend Muller, the whole team (100km/h) and the fan base**), all within 3 weeks.
to further worsen things, the Frankfurt defeat was live on free national TV.

*) ironically, Bayern started the19/20 season with more top class defenders in the squad than any season before; Süle/Pavard/Boateng/Hernandez all can and did play CB at the highest level. Many seasons before that, Bayern had 2 CBs, 2FB, Rafinha and Martinez as only backups for 4 def positions

**) Kovac had stated that Frankfurt (his former team) had "the best supporters in the league" - while technically probably true, there are things you can think but not say as a coach. The fanbae had stood behind him in their majority until then.

The end was a bit self induced, he clearly was never the right man for the job. Whether he ever had any fighting chance is debatable, Rummenigge never wanted him.

PS: @goonster: Phil Jones? yeah, he's what, 11 stone and 6ft? Süle is 4 years younger, 15 stone 6ft5 and does 100m in 11sec. I don't really think they are on par potential-wise

[goonster]

and what do the said big clubs have in common?

Pep left three years ago, this isn't on him. Or did you mean recent underachievement in the Champions League?

Selling Hummels (instead of Boateng), and not replacing him, raised eyebrows at the time.

[echappist]

Pep left three years ago, this isn't on him. Or did you mean recent underachievement in the Champions League?

Selling Hummels (instead of Boateng), and not replacing him, raised eyebrows at the time.

i know it's technically not on Pep; i just can't pass up on taking a snipe at him... Such a sanctimonious git (on the pitch and off)

he was also the mad genius who installed Kimmich at central defense

the underachievement is true enough though

I think the Bayern board thought they pulled a fast one on BVB by getting a 30mil Eur fee for someone it perceived to be washed up and slow, but for all his faults Hummels lends a calming presence and whatever he lacks in speed, he (mostly) makes up with awareness and positioning.

Heynckes jokes have been banned by the german joke police today around 11:00am.



I'm trying really hard not to type a really hackneyed and trite retort ;)

[Gsinill]

I'm trying really hard not to type a really hackneyed and trite retort ;)

Go ahead, we are used to it ;)

[echappist]

Go ahead, we are used to it ;)

nah, let's not

I'm rather embarrassed that I couldn't think of anything original or punny. @Martl's comment was waiting for a clever response, and I was found wanting... Now if I could only come up with a pun containing the word "stasi"...

[wc1934]

i'm not sure if that is worthy of kudos though (as much as I find their Teutonic manager and cosmopolitan team generally likeable)...

btw, psyched for tomorrow? Chances of me getting much done tomorrow is about nil. Perhaps I should be thankful that all the interesting matches occur on one day of the week, so that I can be productive on the other day. I have no idea how they decided which groups to play on which day, as the matches on Wednesday are thoroughly insipid...



Jones ought to consider himself lucky to be compared to Süle

and what do the said big clubs have in common?

I think so - they could have just gone with the flow - more teams/managers need to make statements.
Have to be psyched for tomorrow - (hopes for the scudetto is vanishing - those last 2 games killed me). A win gets them into the round of 16. Forza Napoli!

[martl]

nah, let's not

I'm rather embarrassed that I couldn't think of anything original or punny. @Martl's comment was waiting for a clever response, and I was found wanting... Now if I could only come up with a pun containing the word "stasi"...
no need to hold back, online discussions about football are a full-contact sport :D
i spend time on english dominated football forums and i'm used to condescending remarks about german humour from people who think photoshopping 3rd reich uniforms on Schweinsteiger is hilarious :)

[goonster]

In Austria they say that making a German laugh is a challenge, but cracking up a Swiss person is a lifetime achievement.

Germans are plenty funny and deserve credit for embracing deadpan, and rarely laughing at their own jokes.

The FC. Bayern PR machine, so desperate to control the narrative and preserve the ego of the tribe: 100% humorless.

[echappist]

In Austria they say that making a German laugh is a challenge, but cracking up a Swiss person is a lifetime achievement.

Germans are plenty funny and deserve credit for embracing deadpan, and rarely laughing at their own jokes.

The FC. Bayern PR machine, so desperate to control the narrative and preserve the ego of the tribe: 100% humorless.

has to be said that it's hilarious to outsiders :)

btw, what do you make of the whole kerfuffle over scheduling? They now have to play two games in two days, with a split squad. That's patently unfair.

About time they did away with that Mickey Mouse cup...

And as much as I dislike Pep, he's got it right that the Premier League has its noggin up its rear end when it scheduled City to play two games in less than 72 hours. Effing farce...

And don't get me started on the half-ass way the Premier League decided to implement VAR. The cynic in me thinks that they purposely botched the set up, so it'll get scuttled...

[echappist]

Yikes, Napoli digs itself into an early hole...

this may be another 4-3 affair

[goonster]

Ci vediamo a Anfield.

[echappist]

damn, so many cracking matches today. didn't know which one to watch. I'm really happy about the BVB 09 win; that was a gutsy performance to come back from two down at home. For a team with a knack of snatching ties from the jaws of victory, it was good to see them snatch a victory from the jaws of defeat for once. Game on for this weekend's game in München

Ci vediamo a Anfield.

one wonders what the Ox has to do to get in the starting eleven

I think it was his presence that really exposed Man City in those three games in 2018

My bet is that Klopp will play it safe and start Wijnaldum and Henderson, with the Ox coming in around 60 minutes

[echappist]

so FC Bayern is going after Arsene Wenger as interim manager? That's quite inconceivable, really, given how Wenger had a knack of shipping goals to Bayern...

And in other Arsenal related news, out of all the people Arsenal could have picked for captain, they picked PEA? Yikes

[martl]

so FC Bayern is going after Arsene Wenger as interim manager? That's quite inconceivable, really, given how Wenger had a knack of shipping goals to Bayern...

And in other Arsenal related news, out of all the people Arsenal could have picked for captain, they picked PEA? Yikes

the Wenger rumour has not been overly loud to hear on location. my money is, if nothing horrible happens the next 2 matches with the BVB match, Flick stays for the season, then Ten Hag.

[wc1934]

US women (sans Ellis) vs Sweden coming on shortly.

[echappist]

Yikes, BVB took a royal pasting in München...

Sort of a trend ever since Klopp left. What really puzzle me is that one have mid-table and relegation contenders playing spirited matches against the Bavarians, but Dortmund seems to offer no resistance.

Bottling sounds about appropriate

[goonster]

Well, it was fun dancing on Bayern's grave while it lasted . . .

[echappist]

Well, it was fun dancing on Bayern's grave while it lasted . . .

well, one can't kill what's already dead.

[echappist]

damn, what a start to the game. City with two gilt-edged chances off of set pieces, and LFC escaped unscathed after playing with fire (aka holding an extremely high line and not getting a jump on things). Except LFC escapes and goes on to score almost out of nowhere...

[BobC]

The revised hand ball rule is stupid. Case in point is MC vs LFC. Even with VAR.

Go back to the previous interpretation. Much easier to enforce.

[BobC]

And I am not a fan of either side. Just wanted an entertaining match.

[echappist]

The revised hand ball rule is stupid. Case in point is MC vs LFC. Even with VAR.

Go back to the previous interpretation. Much easier to enforce.

to be honest, I think they were making up rules on the fly. There's no adherence to any interpretation.

Taken on its own merit (which is to say, without consideration of whether it may have struck the arm of an attacking player), TAA's first handball incident should have been penalized. Players certainly have been penalized for incidents less egregious (e.g. closer to the ball or arm closer to the body).

However, the ball apparently struck B. Silva's arm immediately beforehand (although I haven't seen anything to show this), with the further twist that if City were to score a subsequent goal (after the ball strikes the arm of a City player in the opponent box), it'd be chalked off, whereas if City were not to score a subsequent goal, the game is supposed to carry on without consideration of whether a City player handled it first (which appears to be the scenario most comparable to what happened). Why VAR wasn't used immediately, with the whistle blown, is a bit of mystery.

It's all rather mad, and it's understandable that Pep would be rather indignant over all this.

[BobC]

Exactly. It hit Silva first. That should have been called. No issue then.

Pep did himself no favors. Thought he was way over the top. Klopp not much better about the substitution issue.

Meanwhile Pulisic is on a tear. Why cannot the USMNT capture that?

to be honest, I think they were making up rules on the fly. There's no adherence to any interpretation.

Taken on its own merit (which is to say, without consideration of whether it may have struck the arm of an attacking player), TAA's first handball incident should have been penalized. Players certainly have been penalized for incidents less egregious (e.g. closer to the ball or arm closer to the body).

However, the ball apparently struck B. Silva's arm immediately beforehand (although I haven't seen anything to show this), with the further twist that if City were to score a subsequent goal (after the ball strikes the arm of a City player in the opponent box), it'd be chalked off, whereas if City were not to score a subsequent goal, the game is supposed to carry on without consideration of whether a City player handled it first (which appears to be the scenario most comparable to what happened). Why VAR wasn't used immediately, with the whistle blown, is a bit of mystery.

It's all rather mad, and it's understandable that Pep would be rather indignant over all this.

[echappist]

Meanwhile Pulisic is on a tear. Why cannot the USMNT capture that?

That is the delightful surprise of the season. He was good at Dortmund, but never showed consistency through a stretch of games, with decision making also off at times.

It's actually quite amazing what Lampard has been able to inculcate, as the transition from the Bundesliga to the Premier League isn't all that smooth (just look at Mkhitaryan). His main drawback has always been 1) lack of good shooting boots and 2) losing the ball on the dribble when he should have just passed. Seems to have made improvements on both fronts, with even the shots that were saved some real stingers.

Not sure if his current pace could be sustained, but the signs are quite positive.

As for the USMNT, there's no rhyme or reason. Just nepotism ran amok; ugh...

[goonster]

Meanwhile Pulisic is on a tear. Why cannot the USMNT capture that?

Some players can carry a team on their back (Maradona) and some can't (Messi).

Those examples show that it's more down to factors other than the leading player's playing merits. Maradona, famously undisciplined, was very extroverted with his teammates, who all swear he made the team better. Messi seems to sap the confidence of his supporting cast (on the AMNT), who defer to him to a degree that reduces the whole.

Jury is still out on Pulisic. If he grows into a leading figure at Chelsea, maybe he can leverage some of that for the USMNT.

[echappist]

anyone saw the hilarity that was the USMNT v Canada match?

hilarious in the sense that so many bad touches ended up being fortuitous bounces. rather s***e playing, i'd say

[echappist]

Tottenham sacks Pochettino...

Rather outrageous, I'd say, given the problem has as much to do with Daniel Levy...

Dude is certainly under-appreciated...

PS. Come to think of it, Bayern is looking for a new manager. Would be quite the coup for them to snag Poch

[wc1934]

Tottenham sacks Pochettino...

Rather outrageous, I'd say, given the problem has as much to do with Daniel Levy...

Dude is certainly under-appreciated...

PS. Come to think of it, Bayern is looking for a new manager. Would be quite the coup for them to snag Poch

Ancelotti might be available!!

[akelman]

Tottenham sacks Pochettino...

Rather outrageous, I'd say, given the problem has as much to do with Daniel Levy...

Dude is certainly under-appreciated...

PS. Come to think of it, Bayern is looking for a new manager. Would be quite the coup for them to snag Poch

Levy really does have a lot to answer for, both because of the small budgets—even with the looser purse strings last summer—and the debacle with the stadium construction. On the other hand, the team had stopped playing for Poch. Spurs were very, very lucky to finish in the top four last season, and they were even luckier to qualify for the CL final. Poch's system may well be better suited to younger players looking to make their mark. Anyway, I just hope it's not Mourhino. I can't bear the thought of watching a club like Spurs play Mourinho's system.

[echappist]

Ancelotti might be available!!

they could certainly do a lot worse...



Levy really does have a lot to answer for, both because of the small budgets—even with the looser purse strings last summer—and the debacle with the stadium construction. On the other hand, the team had stopped playing for Poch. Spurs were very, very lucky to finish in the top four last season, and they were even luckier to qualify for the CL final. Poch's system may well be better suited to younger players looking to make their mark. Anyway, I just hope it's not Mourhino. I can't bear the thought of watching a club like Spurs play Mourinho's system.

rumor has it that Levy is meeting with the Special One, whose team was humiliated 0-3 at Old Trafford in 2018 by Spurs, thereby prompting a rather zany post-match press conferences, with shouts of "sssree-nil" and "respek"

also, Levy's crazier-than-a-fox negotiation tactics surely backfired, with most of the back line just waiting to see out the contract. As you said, Spurs got extraordinarily lucky last year, but Levy somehow doesn't realize how precarious their situation was.

[farmerjosh]

I was really enjoying the PL without Mourinho in it.

[akelman]

Is Levy now going to spend for Mourinho? When Spurs have no chance to win? After he wouldn't spend when they could have won the league? Or is Levy going to hamstring Mourinho? As he did Poch? In which case, what even is the thinking behind this move?

[echappist]

Is Levy now going to spend for Mourinho? When Spurs have no chance to win? After he wouldn't spend when they could have won the league? Or is Levy going to hamstring Mourinho? As he did Poch? In which case, what even is the thinking behind this move?

he's thinking he can rake in enough cash by having NFL play more games there and that fans will keep pouring into that ginormous 60k stadium

Mourinho may get him a cup win, not the European Cup, but maybe the FA Cup. Then it'll all go to sh*te. After which, Levy will then bribe Mourinho a good $10M to have the latter go away.

Truly appalling bit of business. Spurs will go back to contending with West Ham for the honors of third best team in London...

[Gsinill]

I was really enjoying the PL without Mourinho in it.

At least there is no more risk of Bayern considering this fool for now, that's all I care ;)

[akelman]

he's thinking he can rake in enough cash by having NFL play more games there and that fans will keep pouring into that ginormous 60k stadium

Mourinho may get him a cup win, not the European Cup, but maybe the FA Cup. Then it'll all go to sh*te. After which, Levy will then bribe Mourinho a good $10M to have the latter go away.

Truly appalling bit of business. Spurs will go back to contending with West Ham for the honors of third best team in London...

This is by far the best explanation I've heard. Mourinho will build an entire campaign around winning a trophy—as you say, not the league or CL, but some second- or third-tier piece of hardware—and then, having accomplished his goal, will crow about how he was able to do for the club what Poch never could. All the while, Levy will be content making money. It's horrifying and brilliant, I suppose. I think I'm going to be sick.

[akelman]

At least there is no more risk of Bayern considering this fool for now, that's all I care ;)

I imagine Poch is heading to Munich or Madrid, where he can have the support he never received in North London. Again, I feel sick. (That said, it was past time for Poch to leave Spurs. He should have gone last summer, when Levy wouldn't buy the players he wanted. The thing is, Poch probably doesn't have a very long shelf-life on a team filled with established stars. He just demands too much of veteran players who seem to worry—perhaps with good reason—that they're shortening their careers in service of his insanely rigorous training regimen and match tactics. None of which is to say that hiring Mourinho is defensible.)

[echappist]

This is by far the best explanation I've heard. Mourinho will build an entire campaign around winning a trophy—as you say, not the league or CL, but some second- or third-tier piece of hardware—and then, having accomplished his goal, will crow about how he was able to do for the club what Poch never could. All the while, Levy will be content making money. It's horrifying and brilliant, I suppose. I think I'm going to be sick.
thanks, but i'm just spit-balling like everyone else. Too bad Spurs got knocked out of the Mickey Mouse League Cup and all but qualified for the knockout rounds of Champions League. Jose would have loved to win another Europa League;) (not to mention a way to get into the Champions League next year). That said, it would be downright hilarious if Mourinho pulls a Wigan...

In pulling this stunt, perhaps Levy forgot what it's like to survive on paltry or no TV revenue from European competitions, b/c that's what Spurs may be staring at a few years down the line.

[akelman]

I've loved Spurs since I was a kid. And I've passed that love on to my kids (someone should call Child Protective Services, yes). But at this point, my affection for the club leaves me hoping they'll be relegated. Better that what obviously will end badly should end sooner rather than later.

[goonster]

The thing is, Poch probably doesn't have a very long shelf-life on a team filled with established stars.

I've seen some smart people say that the closest analogy is Simeone's Atletico, who also have a high degree of squad turnover.

The thing about Poch is that he has not shown that he can deliver success over more than one turnover cycle, but it's not his fault that Levy didn't give him the chance.

[echappist]

I've loved Spurs since I was a kid. And I've passed that love on to my kids (someone should call Child Protective Services, yes). But at this point, my affection for the club leaves me hoping they'll be relegated. Better that what obviously will end badly should end sooner rather than later.

look on the bright side, at least you aren't a fan of Wimbledon or Everton ;)

I've seen some smart people say that the closest analogy is Simeone's Atletico, who also have a high degree of squad turnover.

The thing about Poch is that he has not shown that he can deliver success over more than one turnover cycle, but it's not his fault that Levy didn't give him the chance.

funny you'd mention Atletico, as that's the team I have in mind when it comes to high intensity teams. Their trainer/ head of conditioning is known for working over new players until they puke.

[BobC]

It will be entertaining, especially the post match interviews (think microscope).

I don't think it is a good fit. Has the potential to end very badly.

[martl]

I imagine Poch is heading to Munich or Madrid, where he can have the support he never received in North London. Again, I feel sick. (That said, it was past time for Poch to leave Spurs. He should have gone last summer, when Levy wouldn't buy the players he wanted. The thing is, Poch probably doesn't have a very long shelf-life on a team filled with established stars. He just demands too much of veteran players who seem to worry—perhaps with good reason—that they're shortening their careers in service of his insanely rigorous training regimen and match tactics. None of which is to say that hiring Mourinho is defensible.)

As a Bayern supporter, i really hope we will pass Poch and go for ten Hag, who is a better follow-up to the foundation LvG and Pep laid and was lacking with Anchelotti and Kovac. Rumours in town are the new strong man Hainer favours him but has declared to "stay out" of that decision; sports director Salihamidzic seems to like him, too. There are non-dying rumours about a Pep comeback (he still owns an appartment in munich and his family liked it here) and as an outsider-tip Alonso.

[goonster]

Their trainer/ head of conditioning is known for working over new players until they puke.

There are some funny stories about Diego Costa and 'El Profe' when the former rejoined them after six months on the couch in Brazil.

It doesn't always work. Magath takes this approach too, but he seems to burn teams out even faster than others.

[echappist]

Congrats, @wc1934, looks like Napoli has made in to the knock-out rounds.

Which leaves LFC in quite a bind. Granted, there were some questionable "tactics" employed by Napoli, but LFC's front three gotta finish a bit better. Now LFC needs to secure a point in Salzburg, all while missing Fabinho. Might turn into quite the high-scoring affair.

And to think, the defending holders of the European Cup may get knocked out by some upstart team from an Austrian city better known for its musical talents...

[wc1934]

Congrats, @wc1934, looks like Napoli has made in to the knock-out rounds.

Which leaves LFC in quite a bind. Granted, there were some questionable "tactics" employed by Napoli, but LFC's front three gotta finish a bit better. Now LFC needs to secure a point in Salzburg, all while missing Fabinho. Might turn into quite the high-scoring affair.

And to think, the defending holders of the European Cup may get knocked out by some upstart team from an Austrian city better known for its musical talents...

not yet - need a point on the 10th. Drew with Gent in the first game and they are kicking themselves now for not collecting the 3.

RB can score (16) - only Bayern (21) and Spurs (17) have scored more goals - but they have let in 11.

[echappist]

Profile on Jesse Marsch, who's one win away from becoming the first U.S. manager to reach the Champions League knockout stage

Personally, I'd want to see him lose this one, but he and Red Bull Leipzig (I means Salzburg) have been revelations of the season.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/dec/10/jesse-marsch-at-salzburg-im-not-treated-like-an-american-coach

[martl]

It doesn't always work. Magath takes this approach too, but he seems to burn teams out even faster than others.
Magath has turned into a complete football coaching troll after getting fired from Bayern. His hiring and his coaching methods at Wolfsburg and Schalke looked as if he was testing out what sort of lunacy would get him fired.
Not enough insight about his Fulham stint, where his english language skills were enogh to make him look like something out of a Benny Hill movie...

[goonster]

Definitely nervous about today. Should be a good game, with goals.

As defending champs, league leaders, and generally a team firing on all cylinders, Liverpool will have no excuse for not defending what boils down to a 4:3 first leg lead.

[echappist]

Red Bull comes out charging. Coupled with some comical clearance by Liverpool, that looked nervy as hell

[wc1934]

Red Bull comes out charging. Coupled with some comical clearance by Liverpool, that looked nervy as hell

other half - Milik 3 - GNK 0

[echappist]

after missing two sitters, the Mo Salah runs down the wing and chips one from the short edge of the penalty area, at an incredibly tight angle

that was something...

[kevinvc]

Kind of disappointed not to see any talk about Son's wonder goal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-CefuZ6h1k) this weekend. He went by 9 of Burnley's 11 in his run.

A bummer of a side story (https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10513568/tottenham-son-burnley-eject-13-year-old-fan-racist-abuse/) from the same match was that a 13 year old Burnley "supporter" was thrown out of the match for making racist gestures towards Son.

Overall, it was a pretty bad weekend for people who oppose racism in the supporters' sections as there were several incidents at a number of matches. Humanity continues to disappoint.

[echappist]

Kind of disappointed not to see any talk about Son's wonder goal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-CefuZ6h1k) this weekend. He went by 9 of Burnley's 11 in his run.


Good thing that you brought it up :)

Reminiscent of Maradonna, George Weah, and Iñaki Williams. Especially the latter two, as Son's goal also came from having just defended a dead ball in his own half. Also like the latter two, there's a moment during the first viewing when you start thinking, umm, this one would be spectacular if he scores. For Weah, it's when he dribbled into a crowd, briefly seemed to have lost possession, only to break free again. For Williams, it was that one outrageous flick-and-turn that saw him off to the races. For Son, it's when he decided to put on the after burners just before the halfway line.

Can't remember if you are a Spurs fan, but Mourinho seems to have turned the ship around for now.


A bummer of a side story (https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10513568/tottenham-son-burnley-eject-13-year-old-fan-racist-abuse/) from the same match was that a 13 year old Burnley "supporter" was thrown out of the match for making racist gestures towards Son.

Overall, it was a pretty bad weekend for people who oppose racism in the supporters' sections as there were several incidents at a number of matches. Humanity continues to disappoint.

touché

seemed to have been an incident per match day. sad state of affairs

[kevinvc]

... For Son, it's when he decided to put on the after burners just before the halfway line...

Can't remember if you are a Spurs fan, but Mourinho seems to have turned the ship around for now.


For me the first "oh $hit, he might pull this off" moment was when he split the defenders without breaking stride, then he played the perfectly placed and weighted ball into space... for himself! I have to admit it was terrible defending by Burnley as several men could have stepped to the ball or at least tried to steer Son to the sideline, but that's not taking anything away from the best goal I've seen this season. What a ride!

I have to admit, I was upset when Pochettino got sacked and thought he had earned more time to right the ship, but the team's play under Mourinho shows that he had lost the locker room and it was clearly the right move. I've never been much of a Mourinho fan and we all know he has a short shelf life at the helm, but hopefully he can deliver some silverware before he expires.

COYS!!

[echappist]

For me the first "oh $hit, he might pull this off" moment was when he split the defenders without breaking stride, then he played the perfectly placed and weighted ball into space... for himself! I have to admit it was terrible defending by Burnley as several men could have stepped to the ball or at least tried to steer Son to the sideline, but that's not taking anything away from the best goal I've seen this season. What a ride!

I have to admit, I was upset when Pochettino got sacked and thought he had earned more time to right the ship, but the team's play under Mourinho shows that he had lost the locker room and it was clearly the right move. I've never been much of a Mourinho fan and we all know he has a short shelf life at the helm, but hopefully he can deliver some silverware before he expires.

COYS!!

For the sake of Spurs fans, I hope he can do that for you

that said, he's already back to playing (unprovoked) mind games, this time needling Herr Flicks of Bayern. Just Jose being Jose, I guess

A bit disappointing that Ajax won't make it to the knockout rounds, and to think, that double red in the match of Chelsea really changed things...

An Ajax - Salzburg final would make for a really compelling match

[wc1934]

For the sake of Spurs fans, I hope he can do that for you

that said, he's already back to playing (unprovoked) mind games, this time needling Herr Flicks of Bayern. Just Jose being Jose, I guess

A bit disappointing that Ajax won't make it to the knockout rounds, and to think, that double red in the match of Chelsea really changed things...

An Ajax - Salzburg final would make for a really compelling match

Major disappointment - especially in light of last year.
Inter's ouster is bit disappointing.

[echappist]

@wc1934, and Ancelotti gets canned?

Yikes

I mean, I know they aren't doing as well in the league, but they've had a brilliant UCL Group Stage.

And the rumour is that Gattuso is the replacement? Madness...

[Gsinill]

On a side note: Amazon Prime apparently just bought the rights for one UCL top match (Tue or Wed) per stage starting with the 2021/2022 season.
Not sure they will broadcast in the US or whether this will be limited to European Prime members.